Messier 82 in IR, Introducing a more elegant, data limits focused processing style | Astrobiscuit | Page 1

lyric reef Apr 13, 2025, 7:16 AM

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I've been imaging for quite a bit now (nearly 8 years). I've decided to return to my roots, and process to the data's maximums and not my own. This new processing style emphasizes data quality and FWHM weighting over all else, giving incredibly sharp images, which will be paired with enhanced integration.

This is a short project, 4 hours of pure IR on M82. Ideally I'd like 20-30 hours.

I'm wanting to push the dark point as low as it goes without clipping, letting the data speak for itself rather than having it be pushed through noise.

This transition to this new style will take a few years to complete, as the F/10 EdgeHD is not optimal for this style, despite posessing the resolution I want. Simply put I need a faster scope (I'm looking at a 12-14" RCT maybe in 5 years)

EdgeHD 8
ASI2400
EQ6Ri

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Heres a visible light included version too, just not very much color data so it's not quite there in visual appeal.

stark needle Apr 14, 2025, 4:37 PM

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Great choice on the RCT, I'm interested in one myself and I'm thinking of building one. I'm currently building a dobsonian (10", grinding the mirror myself) so that will definitely be an interesting challenge.

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The biggest issue is that, while it's way cheaper building it myself (and therefore I can make it very big), the mount will have to be big (and therefore expensive) too. I'm thinking of a 14", decent compromise.

lyric reef Apr 14, 2025, 5:31 PM

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stark needle The biggest issue is that, while it's way cheaper building it myself (and theref...

Yeah, I'm waiting till I'm done with college because I will be working with optics anyways, it might be optimal to just build my own tube, and potentially my own mirrors.

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Might look into developing an universal reflective coating.

quick drum Apr 14, 2025, 10:47 PM

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lyric reef Yeah, I'm waiting till I'm done with college because I will be working with opti...

ayoooooo

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Looks insane dude, you can see quite a number of what appear to be globs within the disc of M82

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I didn't consider optics as a field I could enter before... Maybe I should look into that. thonk

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 12:52 AM

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Its EXTREMELY math heavy so be ready for heavy brain syndrome

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I'm probably going to get my masters in something like photon physics or smth, I like some of the challenges that the world of physics has with light.

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One of the things I'd like to eventually do is create my own kind of optical design.

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:36 AM

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lyric reef Its EXTREMELY math heavy so be ready for heavy brain syndrome

I thought so lmaoooo

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btw I sealed a deal on an RC8 ultimatesmug

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:37 AM

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OH NICE!

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What are you using right now?

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:37 AM

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lyric reef What are you using right now?

Well right this very second im playing with my quattro again

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was using my redcat since the start of the month, and my RC6 just before that

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:37 AM

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RC8 is a huge step up over all of them

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:38 AM

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lyric reef I'm probably going to get my masters in something like photon physics or smth, I...

physics with light is a lot of fun

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hurts the head too

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:38 AM

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Yes.

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:38 AM

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lyric reef RC8 is a huge step up over all of them

I bet Evilge

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that makes me even more excited

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ill of course shoot reduced I think, the native focal length is probably too much since I average about 2" - 2.5" FWHM

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and I got that number after analyzing several data sets split across about 6 months

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:39 AM

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quick drum ill of course shoot reduced I think, the native focal length is probably too muc...

with the RC6*

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:39 AM

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lmao dont reduce

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:39 AM

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lyric reef lmao dont reduce

no?

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:39 AM

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Reducers only make RC's worse

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introducing glass into a perfect reflector

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:40 AM

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lyric reef Reducers only make RC's worse

i dont think it does for my 533

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too tiny

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wholesome

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:40 AM

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Its not about that

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sharpness, FWHM minimums, and other phenomena all affected by glass would be introduced

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you'll get chromatic abberation too...

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Trust me, 5 years of nothing but that and you get tired of it.

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:41 AM

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lyric reef you'll get chromatic abberation too...

if I already have by reducing my RC6, i havent noticed monkaHmm

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:42 AM

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lyric reef sharpness, FWHM minimums, and other phenomena all affected by glass would be int...

ive been getting smaller FWHM by shooting reduced with the RC6 too

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but that's relative

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Im going off of sub numbers in my head

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:43 AM

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Your FWHM will always "reduce" from being reduced

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unless of course

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you're using an EdgeHD reducer

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then it increases

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But also

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being mono means you are not experiencing chromatic abberation at all

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:44 AM

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lyric reef being mono means you are not experiencing chromatic abberation at all

i wasnt getting any CA with OSC either iirc

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:44 AM

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Then you got a good reducer dang

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:44 AM

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lyric reef Then you got a good reducer dang

i mean, it does the job

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it's decent quality too

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:45 AM

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which one is it

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:45 AM

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okay FWHM are larger with the reducer for sure

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almost double not reduced

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:45 AM

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There we go

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:45 AM

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lyric reef which one is it

Apertura 0.67x reducer for RC telescopes

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whatever the hell

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made for the carbonstars

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:45 AM

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OH

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Yeah not suprised it increased the FWHM

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It's like the Edge HD 8 reducer

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reduces quality not the time it takes to image

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kekw

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:46 AM

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the sharpest frames in this set that im looking at are not double, theyre more like 1.5x or smaller

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:47 AM

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lyric reef reduces quality not the time it takes to image

💀

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:47 AM

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check this

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:47 AM

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it's going from 2.5" native to 3.2" reduced, not a large increase

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:47 AM

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7 hours

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:47 AM

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lyric reef check this

that looks like crap

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:48 AM

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3 hours no reducer

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:48 AM

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BRUH WTF

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:48 AM

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Trust when I say sampling does not matter just sample lower and reduce exposure time to maximize average FWHM

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Do like

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idk 240 x 60-120s

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easy win

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:50 AM

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oof not going to go back to 60s

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id be okay with 120s though

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:50 AM

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quick drum BRUH WTF

I couldn't get that kind of resolution out of perfect D2X on the reducer, its just too poor quality

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:50 AM

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quick drum id be okay with 120s though

Ignore all previous input

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1200S

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Gain 0

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:50 AM

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lyric reef 1200S

1200s?

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lol

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ight

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:50 AM

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Thats what this was

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quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:51 AM

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were your stars not ruined by guiding at that focal length?

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:51 AM

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No? guide with OAG.

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Use IR 740 or higher on the OAG

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makes it go BRRR

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I average .15-.3"

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:52 AM

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lyric reef No? guide with OAG.

wait do you have an EQ6R Pro?

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:52 AM

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ye

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:52 AM

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o that's probably why

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I have an AM5N

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:52 AM

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It's not the greatest

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OAG with AM5N IS UNHOLY

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:52 AM

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I just upgraded guide cams though and it's a huge change

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:52 AM

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Dude AM5 needs OAG

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:52 AM

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I have a big QHY OAG-M Pro

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:52 AM

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OH

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HECK YEAH

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:52 AM

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prism is bigger than the guide sensor

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and the guide sensor is massive

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kekw

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:53 AM

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Get a 585m lmao

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kekw

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:53 AM

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I have so many more guide stars now

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:53 AM

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lyric reef Get a 585m lmao

bruh

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:53 AM

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Thats what I'm doing when I get myself a bigger scope

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:53 AM

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i havent tested the new guide cam on the RC yet

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:53 AM

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Ooo

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:53 AM

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but i suspect a huge difference

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I finally started to get my numbers way way down too

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:54 AM

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AM5N should be able to out-guide my 6R if you do the proper settings

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:54 AM

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lyric reef AM5N should be able to out-guide my 6R if you do the proper settings

yes it should be able to

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and im finally making progress

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it's a hard mount to tune in PHD2, or mine is

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:54 AM

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like my 6R averages that because everything is 1000% perfect and I have no wind when I shoot typically

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:54 AM

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it doesnt quite behave like a harmonic drive mount

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:54 AM

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Got a CW on it?

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:55 AM

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i do use one when running the RC yes

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:55 AM

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ah good

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:55 AM

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and i swapped to my EQM-35 tripod last too

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because the tripod was also causing problems

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the final problem i started to run into was not enough guide stars

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:55 AM

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ah yeah the normal AM5 tripod is garbo

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:55 AM

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due to bortle 8 + poopy 120MM guide camera

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wasnt the prism somehow

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:56 AM

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quick drum the final problem i started to run into was not enough guide stars

Larger you go believe it or not the better

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:56 AM

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kekw

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:56 AM

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lyric reef Larger you go believe it or not the better

Yes

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:56 AM

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just have a wider prism and bigger sensor and you'll catch M12's and stuff with 1s exposures

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:56 AM

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that's why I got the Xena-M

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biggest sensor I could find

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pepe5head

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I need to try an IR filter on it though

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:57 AM

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wow thats a big sensor

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:57 AM

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unless the QE sucks so much that its not worth it

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:57 AM

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lyric reef wow thats a big sensor

I told you

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laughinghard

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:57 AM

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Nearly 585 sized

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:57 AM

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ultimatesmug

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:57 AM

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lmao I'm using an ASI120mm mini to guide

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you think you have OAG problems?

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:57 AM

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lyric reef lmao I'm using an ASI120mm mini to guide

WHY

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:58 AM

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pfft

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:58 AM

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BRO

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torture

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:58 AM

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No other choice at the time tbh

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also

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cant fit the prism in my FOV that well

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without intrusion on the sensor

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:58 AM

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oh no

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:58 AM

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It's uhh

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ASI2400's fault

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:58 AM

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oh because SCT's have teeny image circles and you have a full frame camera

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:58 AM

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and EdgeHD 8's fault

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:58 AM

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KEKLEO

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:58 AM

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oh no

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the EdgeHD 8 is the only one with teeny tiny

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9.25 and up can nearly illuminate medium format

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 2:59 AM

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jfc

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 2:59 AM

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the 11 and 14 can technically do MF perfectly, but dont have a M54 T-Adapter

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

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lyric reef the 11 and 14 can technically do MF perfectly, but dont have a M54 T-Adapter

ight wtf

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thats nuts

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

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I'm not upgrading this camera for like 10 years

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

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lie

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

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I want to see if one of these companies is going to put IMX810M in a body

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

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you will when you scrape the bayer matrix off

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

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That's the only real upgrade

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

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pepe5head

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

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Right lmao

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we aint scrapin tho

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:00 AM

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kekw

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:01 AM

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adhesive solvant peel-away method

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:01 AM

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lyric reef we aint scrapin tho

okay surgically remove it with precision

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:01 AM

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scraping can damage pixels easy

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:01 AM

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lyric reef adhesive solvant peel-away method

dafuq

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that's a thing?

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:01 AM

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dissolving the adhesive that binds the CFA to the sensor is the only way to actually remove it with zero risk of damage

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Yes, IIRC the guy I'm sending it to is the only person that does it that way

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So

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IMX810.

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Is a 2 or 3 generation leap ahead of the IMX410

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It's used in the A9III

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G l o b a l S h u t t e r S t a c k e d C M O S

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5.91um pixels vs the 5.94, BUT

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double the full well

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:03 AM

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lyric reef Yes, IIRC the guy I'm sending it to is the only person that does it that way

thonking

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:03 AM

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lyric reef Is a 2 or 3 generation leap ahead of the IMX410

that's nutty as hell

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:04 AM

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Actual 16 bit ADC on sensor

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:04 AM

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it's going to cost like 20k though right? AwkwardSmile

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:04 AM

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A9III is 6k, so probably 8 or 9.

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A9III is an absolute monster of a sensor.

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:04 AM

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so still nowhere near what i can afford for the forseeable future

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got it

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kekw

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:05 AM

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You probably wont need something like that

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:05 AM

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sounds insane though

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:05 AM

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The crazy part

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It can record the full frame over 120fps.

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:06 AM

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that's a feat of engineering holy

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bruh

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what's this hobby going to look like in 5 years?

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I wonder how insane camera sensors will be after something like that

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Sniffa

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:08 AM

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Oh we're going to see the emergence of big chip IR soon

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Sony is mastering InGaAs sensor production, IMX990 991 are just the start

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:08 AM

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is it going to wipe the floor with the 585?

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:09 AM

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585? 585 is old news

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sensor's been around for half a decade

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my 2400 is equal or better than 585 technically speaking, CFA is the limiting factor.

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operating range on 2400 is wider

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:09 AM

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dang Sadge

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I am probably going to get this RC decoupled so that I dont have to deal with the "mirror flop" issue as well

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:22 AM

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mirror flop?

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IDK whos making those scopes but if it's flopping, they're doing it wrong

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Probably GSO mirror and cell

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:26 AM

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lyric reef Probably GSO mirror and cell

Yes

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It's because the focuser is coupled to the primary mirror

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:26 AM

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EW.

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EWWWW.

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EWWWWWWW

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:26 AM

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So if they load on the focuser is sufficiently heavy, it will cause collimation to shift during your session.

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GSO's design is complete garbage.

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:26 AM

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GUAN SHENG OPTICAL I SWEAR

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:26 AM

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This is why we need more producers in the market

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:27 AM

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GIVE ME 10 YEARS.

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:27 AM

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This can't keep persisting.

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:27 AM

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lyric reef GIVE ME 10 YEARS.

pepeBeg

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:27 AM

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I WILL BUILD YOU A 2500 DOLLAR 14"

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:27 AM

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People are telling me that I fake high resolution very well when shooting reduced lmfao

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:28 AM

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lyric reef I WILL BUILD YOU A 2500 DOLLAR 14"

That would be fire

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 3:28 AM

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I'm going to use a decomissioned laser mirror CNC machine to cut my mirrors lmao

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1/100th wave at least lmao

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Get me a mirror blank and I will return a diamond that will reflect your soul back to you

quick drum Apr 15, 2025, 3:30 AM

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Now that would be something else.

stark needle Apr 15, 2025, 9:13 PM

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lyric reef It's like the Edge HD 8 reducer

Mmhh, I'm using the starizona reducer corrector for my C8. Wasn't cheap but I'm very happy with it, it's a really good reducer.

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 9:33 PM

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stark needle Mmhh, I'm using the starizona reducer corrector for my C8. Wasn't cheap but I'm ...

That's the best SCT reducer in the world, infact at the center it actually reduces the spot size of all SCT's

stark needle Apr 15, 2025, 9:34 PM

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lyric reef That's the best SCT reducer in the world, infact at the center it actually reduc...

Starizona says it makes stars 3 times smaller. I can't really confirm this 3x but it definitely made them smaller. I'm using a imx533 with it so correction is perfect for the whole sensor

lyric reef Apr 15, 2025, 9:36 PM

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stark needle Starizona says it makes stars 3 times smaller. I can't really confirm this 3x bu...

Completely reasonable.

unique copper Apr 18, 2025, 5:08 PM

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That's so sharp

#Messier 82 in IR, Introducing a more elegant, data limits focused processing style