building a dso setup (prob super exp)

[acoustic rover]

C6 (945MM FL with reducer)
Uranus-C
L-Extreme/IR Cut
HEQ5
ASI220MM (OAG camera)

any advice on what to improve?

[acoustic hound]

Maybe spent 150€ extra for the Uranus C Pro Version... And consider the small Fov. (I want to buy also a Cam with the Imx585 (750mm))

[tardy nacelle]

c6 + 585 will require very careful guiding, not sure how well the heq5 can cope with that

[unique ocean]

Will, but hey, The HEQ 5 hasnt failed me so far with the C8 and 3.8um pixel size so i believe in it at 900mm with 2.9um

Plus if needed you can always BIN2X2

[tardy nacelle]

I hope it does work, maybe belt modding it would help in case it doesn't

[acoustic hound]

Is ist able to Bin, because 5.8n Pixels would be nice to use with that fl.

[acoustic hound]

Can it do binning? And would the Pixel size be 5.8 than?

[unique ocean]

Pretty sure all cams can bin lol

[acoustic hound]

But i would never use it, why, i mean my Cgem does not have like 1.7 error with 6kg of gear, why would it.... 😅

[unique ocean]

Its not always needed, but if guiding isnt good enough or your oversampled, then BINNING is good

[acoustic hound]

And especially with the terrible seeing in middle Europe

[acoustic rover]

What's the difference?

[unique ocean]

Cooling, makes such a difference

[ivory ruin]

i thought binning doesnt matter for cmos cameras

cant you just bin in post

[acoustic rover]

So I need another cable for it?

[unique ocean]

Probably yeah, a 12v power cable

[acoustic rover]

I'm screwed

i'll look into it in the future, not now

Do I need an adpater for the OAG

And is the asi220mm an ok guide cam for the OAG

[unique ocean]

You can, but BINNING while imaging just seems easier tbh lol, binning is good if your very oversampled, which with SCTs are very likely to be oversampled as the typical pixel size for SCTs is around 6.0um and the Uranus C is 2.9 lol

[unique ocean]

Hopefully its good, normally parents have 12v power around ngl lol youll need a adapter possibly, if so i can help with that if youd want, and im assuming you mean the 120MM? yeah, its not amazing, not sensitive but its fine for a guide cam, i use one too lol

[acoustic rover]

220mm

https://www.firstlightoptics.com/offers/offer_zwo-asi-220mm-mini-guide-camera_354209.html

[acoustic rover]

I like in a HDB I practically need another power bank

[unique ocean]

Damn, is it new? never seen it till now lol but yeah seems like a really nice guide cam

[acoustic rover]

Do I need an adapter for the OAT

OAG*

[unique ocean]

Yeah

Well

might

[acoustic rover]

Which one

[unique ocean]

Depends what threads the reducer etc uses

[acoustic rover]

I might do it w dslr and uranus c

[acoustic rover]

Can I just use a synscan controller on the eq mount

and just do like 3 star align

[unique ocean]

You can, its less accurate than platesolving though

and youd still need a cable to plug the mount into the laptop for PHD 2

If you mean for tracking accuracy, then no, guiding is essential no matter the mount lol, especially with small pixels and high focal lengths

[acoustic rover]

PHD 2?

[unique ocean]

Yeah, the software to guide, PHD2guiding

[ivory ruin]

you can bin but you cant unbin

shoot unbinned

[unique ocean]

Still, its just easier to shoot BINNED, plus if your oversampled anyway, it doesnt make a difference

[ivory ruin]

easier as in slightly smaller files

decon these days can do lots

[unique ocean]

What would decon do? lol if its over sampled, just means having soft stars etc, your not actually gaining any detail from it, just making guiding harder for yourself

[ivory ruin]

Also it’s barely oversampled

[acoustic rover]

I thought like NINA or sum sht

[unique ocean]

Still much better sampling with BIN2x2 at that focal length for “ok” seeing

[unique ocean]

You’d get PHD2 and connect NINA to PHD2 then control it through NINA lol or just use PHD 2 without NINA

[acoustic rover]

what a confusing world we live in

[unique ocean]

Lol PHD2 is great though

[acoustic rover]

i'm confused af rn

but alright

so
i need an OAG (fck knows what thread, adpaters and where to put it on)
Need to learn how to do NINA, PHD 2 and get used to setting up the set up (will be a while lol)
still thinking about transportation

[unique ocean]

NINA and PHD2 will be fairly easy, you can get help from people on here, watch videos, and just look around on it and learn something lol the OAG (if you got ZWO OAG v2) wouldn’t need adapters likely, as I’m pretty sure the Celestron Reducer is M48 threads (same as the OAG). Transportation is fairly easy, especially if your using a trolley, or putting it in a car or something lol

[acoustic rover]

hm

I might just do the disassembled trolley method

[unique ocean]

It works so I don’t see why not

[acoustic rover]

I will def get questions on it lol

[velvet night]

@acoustic rover This might be expansive try to get a hyperstar to make it f2 for wide field

[acoustic rover]

nope

[velvet night]

It's expensive

[acoustic rover]

i noticed

the HEQ5 alone is a lot

[acoustic rover]

@tardy nacelle changed my mind

not gonna use uranus-c for dso
gonna pop over to my dslr instead

[unique ocean]

@acoustic rover I’m gonna clear up what that guy has said, the Uranus C would put your FOV the same as the C8 with APS-C sized sensor, slightly tighter so you’ll have a very identical FOV to me, you can shoot a lot of galaxies, planetary nebulae, starclusters, and the Uranus C is amazing at planetary. The point of the HEQ 5 pro was so DSOs was a possibility, and you can use the C6 and any other scope you’d ever plan to put on it before getting into 10” RC and almost home observatories level. With the Uranus C, you can shoot loads of DSOs with the C6, there’s alot to shoot, plus if you ever got like a 250mm refractor, you’d have a nice FOV for nebulae, you can always keep using the DSLR and C6 for DSOs though, just I’d 100% recommend modding it, otherwise it’s gonna be really difficult to shoot nebulae with

[acoustic rover]

But if I mod the dslr, it's permanent no?

Cos I still need it for normal photography

[unique ocean]

You can get a clip on filter, the Autofocus on lenses wont work though

[acoustic rover]

wait what

so the filter will destroy the AF feature?

[unique ocean]

Yes

[acoustic rover]

tf

[unique ocean]

If you remove the filters inside your DSLR, it will ruin the autofocus feature

[acoustic rover]

oh oh

[unique ocean]

You could always get a cheap, modded DSLR for astro, and keep that one for normal

[acoustic rover]

hm

I'll need to talk to my parents for another dslr aa

[unique ocean]

Id buy a pre modded one, just be alot easier lol

[acoustic rover]

2nd hand shop is shit here ngl

[unique ocean]

Could always ask for a special request when buying a cam? or if theres a cam shop near by to you, ask them to do it for you

You can do it at home, but it takes a little while (and when i did it, it caused tilt)

[acoustic rover]

true

I suppose I could ask the canon singapore shop to mod something for me

[unique ocean]

Yeah, im gonna have to find somewhere to fix my tilt for me, or get a tilt plate lol

[acoustic rover]

a

[acoustic rover]

Does the camera MP play a huge part

[unique ocean]

If you got it modded by a shop, you most definitely wont have the issue

[acoustic rover]

Like 18mp vs 24mp

[unique ocean]

The amount? not really, just the pixel size

[acoustic rover]

pixel size.. hm

[unique ocean]

Yeah so 18mp (Saying the sensor is the same size) means the pixels are like 5.6um but the 24mp would be like 3.9um

For a SCT, 5.6 is actually pretty good, but for a refractor (in the future) it wont be great

[acoustic rover]

hm

what pixel size should I look for a frac

Like 3.5um or smth

[unique ocean]

anywhere from 1.9 to 3.9

Refracs because they usually have shorter focal length, need smaller pixels

The Uranus C is nice, it uses 2.9um

Or something like a 178MC, not sure if DSLRs actually go that small

[acoustic rover]

Ic

[acoustic rover]

Prob not

[unique ocean]

I know DSLRs go to 3.5um

[acoustic rover]

hm

It's in SGD btw not usd

[acoustic rover]

Like 3.7um

[unique ocean]

Looks pretty good yeah

[acoustic rover]

btw more shutter count = more worn off right

[unique ocean]

Uhh maybe? tbf DSLRs have like 250.000 so it shouldnt run out any time soon

especially for astro

[acoustic rover]

it has below 10k

[acoustic rover]

That's a shit ton

[unique ocean]

Uhh, you sure thats not how many pictures its taken?

[acoustic rover]

nope, that's why i'm asking you

[unique ocean]

Because the 80D is normally 100.000

Which means it can take 100.000 images before it cant anymore

Shutter count is how many it has i believe, 10.000 is quite small for a DSLR tbh, would last you if your doing long exposures though

[acoustic rover]

yeah I'd probably do longer exposures

[acoustic rover]

Do I still need a OAG for a frac?

Or do I need to change?

[unique ocean]

You can use a OAG for a frac yeah, a guide scope is better for refractors though

Youd use the OAG on a SCT instead of a guidescope, only because it corrects flexure, commonly seen at like 800mm and above, where if you guide with a OAG, you wont get it

[acoustic rover]

so I also need a guide scope?

[unique ocean]

Itll be easier to guide with for the frac, but it definitely isnt required if you got a OAG

[acoustic rover]

Ale

Alr

[acoustic rover]

Which works better

[unique ocean]

Guide scope works better for frac, OAG works better for SCT, they both do the exact same thing, the only different is that the OAG will correct flexure for the SCT, the guide scope wouldnt correct flexure for the SCT

[acoustic rover]

Alright

I still have like 45 questions lol

Do I need a specific adpater to attach the dslr to the reducer

cos like. Confused af

And those this work

[ivory ruin]

No

Generally just don’t use a tiny sensor on a high focal length scope

[unique ocean]

Yes… I’d best recommend checking CCD suitability calculator

[ivory ruin]

It’s barely into blue

[unique ocean]

Sure. You can do what you like, not what others can

[unique ocean]

It’s still perfectly centered with binning

[ivory ruin]

Who cares if it’s centered

[unique ocean]

Generally means you are more safe and not having any chance of loosing details or trailing stats due to bad atmospheric conditions….

[ivory ruin]

Binned it’s like 5mp

[unique ocean]

Ok

Cool

[ivory ruin]

Also quick fix: bin in post

If seeing is good and tracking is good you won’t have to drizzle

[unique ocean]

If your lucky imaging and have very good conditions sure you’d have to drizzle, but when will you be lucky imaging with a colour cam, and under great seeing when the planets are out

[ivory ruin]

Only good reason to bin is if you have 2gb of storage

You can bin but you can’t unbin

[unique ocean]

Ok, believe what you like, but I’m not gonna argue with you, if you want traily stars because atmospheric conditions suck, sure go ahead, sure you can “resample” in processing, not everyone uses pix or ps, using a SCT personally I know that even under good atmospheric conditions, binning still does better, stars are nicer and guiding is easier

[ivory ruin]

Stars are the same if you bin or not

[unique ocean]

Not true

[ivory ruin]

Guiding is the same if you bin or not

[unique ocean]

Not true also

[ivory ruin]

How is binning on your main camera going to affect guiding

[unique ocean]

Not saying it’s affecting guide directly, I’m saying guiding doesn’t have to be 0.2” just for round stars

Guiding doesn’t have to be lower than what the resolution limit is, just because you have smaller pixels

[ivory ruin]

Ok then bin

IN POST

[unique ocean]

Ok, or just drizzle, IN POST!!!

You can upsample too

[ivory ruin]

Drizzling is fake tho

[unique ocean]

I’m not sure why you have such a big problem with binning, it’s just making things easier while imaging

[ivory ruin]

easier in one aspect and that is storage

You lose detail that drizzling can’t fully recreate

[unique ocean]

?? So drizzling is but binning isn’t?

[ivory ruin]

No

Binning you are adding

Drizzling you are approximating by looking at the surroundings

I thinks

[unique ocean]

Ok, sure say atmosphere is calm and you have the best possible guiding, sure don’t bin, you might get a tiny bit more details, or non, because your resolution limit stops you getting more details

[unique ocean]

Drizzling is basically the opposite of binning, splits 1 pixel into 4

[ivory ruin]

Yeah

But it ain’t gonna recreate not binning

[unique ocean]

No but your not physically able to get more details anyway

Smaller pixels just make guiding harder and stars softer and more likely to trail

[ivory ruin]

Guiding harder is a mental thing

Just get it good and leave it

[unique ocean]

It really isn’t, it’s proven

With smaller pixels your guiding does have to be more precise, otherwise trails will occur because your over sampled, if your resolution limit is 0.6” and your guiding is 0.5” that’s good, but because your over sampled, your guiding more needs to be 0.3” and you can’t get it that low, therefore causing trails

[acoustic hound]

@ivory ruin @unique ocean when the Atmosphere limits the view to like 2 arc seconds, why shouldn't I bin, it saves space and reduces noise.

[unique ocean]

Im saying binning is a better idea for sampling, they think resampling in processing is a better idea

[acoustic hound]

In Astro most times the pure Resolution isn't the problem, sharpness is....

[unique ocean]

But still, wouldnt it be generally better to bin to get better sampling, and make guiding easier, its not like staying oversampled actually gains any extra details, just makes it harder on yourself for no actual benefits lol

Apart from lucky imaging

[acoustic hound]

Yes of course, and even if you have perfect Guiding, if your not living on a Mountain in the Desert, it is likely that the Atmosphere is the Bootleneck.

[unique ocean]

Exactly, its not like its doing any good lol and yeah the atmosphere is the limit usually, kinda sucks cant lie XD

[unique ocean]

Tbf 1.6 is pretty good lol

[acoustic hound]

Best i have is 0.7 mostly 1.2, don't know about my Guiding because i can only do 30s subs

[unique ocean]

Damn 0.7! thats actually really good tbf! barely get below 2" here lol

Where you from?

[acoustic hound]

Austria

[unique ocean]

Nice! heard the mountains are nice there

[acoustic hound]

Yes, but i live as far away from them as possible in Austria XD

[unique ocean]

Ah damn XD

[acoustic hound]

But because of the relative small scale this isn't to important, currently i am in the Alps, and also have my Equipment there, but 🌧️🌧️🌧️

[unique ocean]

Yeah, nice! hopefully the weather will clear up for you! weather this summer has honestly sucked so far XD

[acoustic hound]

This summer, you mean the hole Year XD, where are you from when only your summer sucked

[unique ocean]

XD well tbf had some good nights during february and march lol im from uk

[acoustic hound]

I was once for two Weeks in Ireland, it rained every 30min for 15min the hole two weeks

[unique ocean]

XD yeah thats typical weather lol sometimes itll rain without there being any scheduled rain ngl

Currently its raining with a thunderstorm warning, if we are lucky it might actually thunder for once lol

Apart from the rain in the alps, how is it?

[acoustic hound]

Everything is so green. Especially because i was on Vacation in Egypt bevor. But for bathing in the beautiful lakes, it might is a bit cold.

[acoustic rover]

update

80ED
EQ5 Pro
2" L-Ultimate
9x50 to guide scope (asi 120/220mm for guide camera)
Modded canon 80D

[tardy nacelle]

The l-ultimate is useless for most people Imo, too expensive and too narrow bandpass

Unless you meant the l-extreme

[lilac lotus]

F7.5 is ridiculously slow. You’ll struggle a lot in bortle 9.

You need all the speed you can get

[acoustic rover]

what

[lilac lotus]

For the 80ed

[acoustic rover]

said wrongly yeah

[lilac lotus]

Unless you have a reducer, but that’s only slightly better

[acoustic rover]

hm

so lower f. = more light

[lilac lotus]

Yes

[acoustic rover]

hm

[acoustic rover]

How about the redcat?

[lilac lotus]

Pretty good

Or Roki 135

[acoustic rover]

f2 iirc

[lilac lotus]

Sharpstar scopes should be cheaper for you. What’s import costs from China like?

[lilac lotus]

Yep. Light magnet.

[acoustic rover]

no idea

[lilac lotus]

You live in the country

Look it up

[acoustic rover]

hm

[acoustic rover]

china?

[lilac lotus]

Singapore

You are going to have a better idea of costs than me lol

[acoustic rover]

lmao

[lilac lotus]

Nah here

[acoustic rover]

oh

usd?

[lilac lotus]

Get from this guy. Based in China and can get the same scope significantly cheaper

[lilac lotus]

Yep

[acoustic rover]

damn imma be broke lol

the first one.. hm

[lilac lotus]

I’d rather the roki

[acoustic rover]

F2 is pretty fast ngl

[lilac lotus]

That thing isn’t the best. It’s quite slow. But decent optically.

[acoustic rover]

roki isn't good?

[lilac lotus]

Nah the 180

[acoustic rover]

oh

I'll compare roki and 80ed

prob roki nvm lol

roki on a eq5. hm

[acoustic rover]

do you own the roki/know amy good example pics of people using it

Any*

[lilac lotus]

I have it yes

Look for pictures from me in #deep_space_pics

Doing some quick image searching the fma180 looks about the same or slightly worse than my Roki.

Of course far slower

[acoustic rover]

Alright

[acoustic rover]

holy shit

But the 135 FL is fixed no?

[acoustic rover]

and how would I guide

like idk if OAG works, or do I need a whole new guide scope

[lilac lotus]

Yep it’s not a crappy zoom lens

[lilac lotus]

Guide scope. OAG is a bit silly on a setup like this.

[acoustic rover]

Would the zwo package work?

[lilac lotus]

Yep

[acoustic rover]

alright
yet another question because I am paranoid
how am I going to put the guide scope on the roki itself
and is the eq5 more than enough (tryna save money so I can maybe go down to eq3 pro)

[lilac lotus]

Redcat 51 ring set

Or astrodynium ring set ideally

Or the same thing but you print it yourself for free

[acoustic rover]

i don't got a 3d printer sadly

[acoustic rover]

alright

[acoustic rover]

Can't find it on flo

[lilac lotus]

It’s not on flo

It’s on Etsy I believe

And a few other places

[acoustic rover]

damn alright

[acoustic rover]

still doesn't have it

[lilac lotus]

Get the redcat ring maybe

[acoustic rover]

I've been searching for that

nothin

[acoustic rover]

well shit me
do I like get the handle, put the guide scope on it

[lilac lotus]

never set it up but i think so. See how others are doing it.

[acoustic rover]

alright

yeah they put the handle on it

1 more issue

what adpaters do I need to put the filters on it

[lilac lotus]

Using the Uranus C right?

M42 filter draw. From ZWO. It will also say something like “M42 filter drawer for Canon EF”

[acoustic rover]

uhm

wait let me pull up fov calculator

still questionable

[acoustic hound]

@acoustic rover A good 135mm and Uranus C would also be a good comby, and you can still use it with your C6...

Or buy Hyperstar for your C6

[lilac lotus]

note i did have halo issues with the uranus and the roki and antlia alpt.

they were gone with the 533mc

[acoustic rover]

hm.

[acoustic hound]

@acoustic rover Do you already have a C6, and Heq5?

[acoustic rover]

so this is for canon dslr?

[acoustic rover]

C6

[lilac lotus]

either canon or nikon mount roki

[acoustic rover]

ok

[acoustic hound]

So a Hyperstar could be considered

[acoustic rover]

HEQ5 no

[acoustic hound]

@acoustic rover Don't have real live experience but with Hyperstar and Uranus C you would have still a nice Fov for Nebula. And with just the C6 nice for Pl Pl Nebula and Galaxies

[acoustic rover]

hm.

idk.

[acoustic hound]

@acoustic rover If your ansure, biggest question is, what you want to shoot.

[acoustic rover]

well

Generally everything
cluster, nebula etc etc

[acoustic hound]

Well in that's case...

[acoustic rover]

I smell a redcat 51
alright then

[acoustic hound]

Are there any of these things that have been considered in this thread for sale used near you?

[acoustic rover]

currency is sgd

[acoustic hound]

💀I thought this that this one new was cheaper.

[acoustic rover]

that is a very confusing sentence