JTW Minotaur, or better to invest elsewhere

[late yarrow]

So I've been mauling over the thought of replacing my longest running piece of equipment, my trusty EQ6-r, for quite some time now.

The Minotaur caught my eye (https://www.jtwastronomy.com/products/minotaur-high-resolution-friction-drive-telescope-mount) as it appears to offer remarkable value for money, and future proof payload capacity of 35kg.

Currently im using around 12kg of optics (1484mm FL) and the PHD2 guide figures show around 0.4" to 0.5" RMS on my sub exposures.

Given I plan on using my optics for a fair while longer, would the Minotaur with it's encoders really be worth shelling out for?

Dont get me wrong, the EQ6r is still going strong, but I want maximum accuracy, precision and detail.

Would it be worthwhile, or should I perhaps spend say 1/3 the price and upgrade my 1600mm to say a 2600mm with lower noise, wider FOV, and simply cull data to tighter RMS values to achieve the better detail without SNR taking too much of a hit? Lucky imaging may also become more viable going this route.

I might have just talked myself out of it , what do you guys think?

[zinc cliff]

If your eq6r is guiding better than what your pixel scale needs I’d suggest going for a batter camera, as far as I know the 2600 sensor is a pleasure to work with, superar clean lights and really easy to calibrate.
A better mount is always a good decision but I’m afraid your frames will look exactly the same as they do with your actual mount.

[foggy chasm]

@valid hornet probably has something to say about the mount. I personally agree with victor, a better camera will help more than another mount

Also if you don't use an asiair there are cheaper options with the imx571

[late yarrow]

Well at bin1 my pix scale is around 0.53", so not too sure what that "needs". I always assumed smaller RMS means less the star wanders over a sub exposure length so better sharpness.

No asi air and no intention to use one by the way.

I'll look into the cameras available but knowing my luck they'll release new stuff after I buy something

Thanks for the input!

[valid hornet]

Fist of @late yarrow are you in the EU?

[late yarrow]

Aus

[valid hornet]

Australia or austria?

[late yarrow]

That old chestnut 😁 Australia

[valid hornet]

Looking at it, 35kg and it’s not worth even the introductory 5k price. Is this planned for a permanent observatory or a travel rig?

Not to mention it uses steppers and onstep. Totally unacceptable at that price point!!!

Also the price is without VAT. A dirty trick that JTW likes to use. For you it will cost 8.8k aud without shipping

[foggy chasm]

If the rms are smaller than the pixel scale I don't think that less wobble will even show up in the subs, I'm open to corrections tho since I'm not entirely sure

[late yarrow]

It seemed great compared to competitors. Its a similar price as the eq8 without encoders, amd cheaper than anything from paramount.
It would be permanently setup in my backyard, covered by a telegizmos cover as the eq6r has been for the last 4 years. I maybe travel once or twice a uear but would like to do more, maybe 3 or 4 times. Im not far from bortle 2 skys and 4hrs from aiding slrings/warrumbungle dark sky park.

[valid hornet]

You need 0.39 guiding without jumps for “unlimited exposure time” in your case

[valid hornet]

Have you considered a mesu200?

You do you, Id stay as far away from JTW as possible.

Very overpriced

[late yarrow]

As far as VAT goes, thats around 9.5k aud or so after shipping and import duties.

I dont believe so, I'll take a look, but if .39" RMS is what I ideally need then im not far off and might just continue to try squeeze more performance out of the eq6r.

The eq6r also has some decent PE that needs to be guided out

[valid hornet]

@late yarrow CEM70EC?

[late yarrow]

They do look interesting but ive been under the impression that having encoders basically elimates inconsistent tracking and saw them as desirable and worth paying for.

[foggy chasm]

I'm not sure if I've misunderstood what you said but the cem70ec should be the version with encoders

[late yarrow]

Ah, thanks you're correct, i read the wrong web page.

Well with the cem70ec i could also get a 2600mm and come in around the price of the JTW

Thanks for the advice so far guys.
I'll see if I can lower and maintain my typical exposre rms for the time being and mull over my options

[foggy chasm]

Check risingcam on aliexpress, their imx571 is 1400€ for the osc and 1800 for the mono version

There's also touptek and the guys I bought my mount from sell them for 950$ the osc and 1200 the mono

[zinc cliff]

You could also check Avalon mounts,

The linear reverse model can hold up to 25kg which is a decent amount

[valid hornet]

Thats wrong. The whole idea of getting an Avalon linear is terrible. It doesn’t have encoders, its quite a bit more expensive than any other mount listed here. Also the payload is not 25kg but 20kg! You should take 60% of that which leaves you at 12kg max payload for imaging.

[foggy chasm]

avalon mounts feel like a gimmick to me, they're cool and all but not worth the price

[valid hornet]

Absolutely. A belt mount has no benefit other then having no backlash which you can realistically tune out of most mounts. Friction drive mounts are actually useful by having no PE.

@foggy chasm just read the “features”

The most average mount in the world.

[foggy chasm]

"the cheapest with the same capacity" lol what it's like 15k for a 20kg capacity

5k my bad, but still

[valid hornet]

Note the *cheapest with same capacity”. It costs 6.5k and im sitting here with a 50kg payload mount for mmuch much less lol… scammers

[valid hornet]

Yeah

[foggy chasm]

have you seen their avalon evo zero? it's an azgti with a 12kg payload for 3.5k

[valid hornet]

My mistake, 7k

[valid hornet]

Avalon = bullshit

[valid hornet]

@foggy chasm that only comes with one 6kg CW and no tripod.

[foggy chasm]

their tripods are quite expensive too, I hope that at least those are worth the money

[valid hornet]

1k

Sure are lol. You can get a berlebach thats WAYY stronger for 800€

[zinc cliff]

Damn I didn’t know they had such bad reputation! 😂

I friend of mine own one and he’s quite happy

At that price point I’d go with the eq8/cem70

[foggy chasm]

they do have a good reputation, it's just that for the same money you can get so much better

[valid hornet]

Im starting to think you didn't read the previous messages

[late yarrow]

Just a quick q (hopefully). How do you arrive at the 0.39 guiding figure for unlimited exposure time?
Incase i ever change image scale to a smaller one, I'll be able to recalculate myself.

Thanks for your advice so far, i really appreciate the pointers

[valid hornet]

You want your RMS to be 75% of your image scale

In your case 75% of 0.53” = 0.39”

[late yarrow]

Ah cool, that's easy to remember. Thankyou very much