The AZ GTI Forum

[low mural]

Still Jealous you could get below 1.00 on the AZ-GTI and I don't even have it anymore haha

[modest nebula]

the trick was to turn off backlash compensation in PHD2 and turn it on in GSServer

[low mural]

Interesting. I may try that with my EQM35. DEC is pretty perfect on it though. But a fair bit of backlash in RA...

I am using EQMOD at the moment but may try GSS

[modest nebula]

there's a video on their website on how to tune it

2mins of bubble with way too much light pollution. It's not even proper dark yet 😄

tempted to stay on this target all evening but not really got the reach to do it justice

dumbell rather 😄

[low mural]

M27 is one of my favs!

You doing dualband?

If you are, stay with it!

[modest nebula]

no, I swapped the ir cut back in

I can easily swap it though

[low mural]

M27 is supposed to be really good in Dualband

[rugged jackal]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WGO98EAuPw7XUg2xn2bhNlqJzyU0JEhD/view?usp=sharing

The same image but without the dodgy flats. looks to be a much cleaner stacked image file.

[modest nebula]

guess which idiot forgot to turn his dew heaters on?

[low mural]

Bravo @rugged jackal! Looking forward to seeing your next image with calibration frames!

[low mural]

Whopppsie! It is very Humid out there tonight!

Looked a little dark so pulled some more out of the histogram

[modest nebula]

I think I recovered it. dew heaters on, 10 secs with heat gun to demist the lens

[rugged jackal]

Been there myself and also forgot to remove the Bahtinov mask! good you receovered it, having a hair dryer helps

[rugged jackal]

wow! well done @low mural you certainly can make a silk purse out of some pig's ear thingy, hahaha, no well done and thank you ! This image was stacked with the darks and bias frames as the temp matched but I discarded the flats. I am gonna start fresh, clean everything then take my lights and then carefully build a library of calib frames for the current temp.

No imaging for me - clouds every night since Saturday morning.

[modest nebula]

hmm my focus has been going off all evening. I thought it was due to guiding, but I've had to just go refocus. It was quite a way off 😮

it was perfect a few hours ago

[low mural]

I usually keep my flats for a few nights and then retake them. Bias can be kept for about 1-2 months. Darks I would do every time. If you are worried about doing too many at the end of the night. Take like 10 in the middle of your imaging session. At least then if you dont have time to take the rest at the end of the night, you have some! If you are taking 30 second subs then it will only eat 5 mins out of your imaging time

[low mural]

Perhaps the temperature fluctuations? I know the 50ED focus can slip sometimes

[modest nebula]

yes deffo temperature IMO

here's how bad it got

that dip in the middle is where I refocussed. after that was getting sharp images

notice it's still trending upwards after that though, so getting colder as the night went on, focus creeping again although not as bad as before

I think I might refocus every 0.5deg or something in future

[low mural]

I usually refocus every 45mins to an hour. If only an autofocuser was available for the 50ED 😅

[modest nebula]

that's something I shall be doing now

[modest nebula]

so I had to dispose of an hour of data from last night but still had 1 hr of good data. Wish I could work out how to get rid of this purple fringing on saturated stars though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uh05MKo9J2s

[modest nebula]

star fringing fixed

[rugged jackal]

lovely image, well done

[modest nebula]

only 57mins of data too. I'll add to it at some point

might try duo-band filter next time

[rugged jackal]

What is your telescope and it's reach?

[low mural]

Nice detail for 57 mins. Pop that duo on and that should reveal some more Ha and Oiii data! This was my completed 7 hour image of M27.

The halos dont bother me too much as it brings some colour into those hot stars but carefully adding them back in to the starless image in arcsinh stretches does help

[rugged jackal]

Really nice, wow... lovr the blue

[low mural]

If I had dualband, i may have got out the fainter details on the edges and some more Ha in the centre. Maybe next year!

[rugged jackal]

This hobby is very challenging clouds, cold, light pollution, technical know how needed, patience, etc, but incredibly challenging on the wallet, £300 for a filter! £2000 for a cooled camera! and all the little bits to put it togther. LOOOL

[low mural]

Tell me about it! I guess its one of the pros of my autism. I don't care how hard it is, how long it takes or how expensive it is. I am obsessed with the hobby and nothing is getting in my way

Then again, money is getting in the way

[rugged jackal]

I like the fact that it is hard, taking my time to learn so I can keep doing this for a long time but I do get despondent when nothing is happening #, clouds have got in the way, far too much for my sanity & patience level, Saving up to buy a proper astro camera, so yeah that too!, what would you get in my shoes?

[modest nebula]

I didn't use Starnet on mine this time. I liked the look of the stars without it.

[modest nebula]

It's same as AstroBenn - an Evoguide 50ED. I think it's 242mm or something like that. My sensor is 7.9mm x 4.5mm so quite a bit smaller than your APS-C. That results in more "zoom"

[low mural]

Im guessing you havent got a field flattener for the 72ED? I would get that. It would greatly improve your image and platesolving results

[rugged jackal]

I do not have a field flattner, have you seen the prices? I am guessing manufacturers etc are out to fleece us. I read up on it now that you said it is important and it is important, so that is next item on the agenda (on one of) I am thinking about the OVL or second hand - sorry preloved ones.

[low mural]

https://ensoptical.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&manufacturer_id=73&product_id=14815&sort=p.price&order=ASC

I would consider a reducer. It will make your scope faster allowing more light ti come through

Will also benefit you when you get an astro camera as your sensor will be smaller and the reducer increases your field of view

ENS optical might be local to you. Might be worth popping in?

[rugged jackal]

ENS is 10 mins from me - wow. You know everything.

This is interesting - looking at the address and opening hours - They close at 3pm, do not open on Sat/Sun - they really really do not want a dodgy pseudo astronomer looking for a cheap reducer coming over! loooooool. Viewing by appointment! Strewth you'd think they serviced the royal family. haha. But that is a great shout - but I need a M42 adapter I wonder if I need an appointment.

[modest nebula]

Stalker alert 😄

[low mural]

I knew they were in Birmingham haha. Wish I had a shop like that near me!

[low mural]

Yeah they are probs a warehouse somewhere rather than a shop! Maybe give them a call. They seem like they know their stuff so may be able to advise you 👍

[low mural]

Camera a bit hot this evening! 26 degrees

[rugged jackal]

Good shout again, I'll call them and find out.

any suggestion re targets tonight?

I am tempted to try the Pelican again?

[low mural]

Anywhere around there is good to shoot. Worth noting your camera will filter out a lot of the red colour but you will get some data! Have you got some data on pelican already?

[rugged jackal]

I was messing with exposures etc but it was rubbish as clouds rolled in

so I simply discarded them

there were only 10 shots

[low mural]

Yeah I would say go for it. I would centre more.at the north american nebula purely because that area is brighter

Caldwell 20 being the NA and IC 5070 the Pelican

Or we could say Caldwell 20 being the NAN!

I always type north american rather than north america 😅

[rugged jackal]

my remote connection is being a NAN

relying on chrome remote

using the cls tonight

fair warning - another stupid question coming up:

can I use the imaging section in NINA to take my Darks - just loop it, take the desired exposures and save them in a folder automatically? this will save them as FITS format files?

or should I stick to the previous method of simply taking 20 RAW format frames from the camera?

[low mural]

Yes this will be fine!

No it would be better if it was all from NINA. Easier for you too!

Ive finished my Sadr region for tonight and now taking my darks. I will then refocus move onto M16 and take 30 mins of data.
Look at all the hot/cold pixels! That is why darks are important.

[rugged jackal]

if only we could afford a cooled camera. loool.

though NINA can help me with the darks I will have to use the camera native format for the bias as NINA imaging does not go to fastest setting on my sony - 1/4000

I can actually capture the bias and darks from the PC uisng Sony remote imaging software!

[low mural]

I know right!

Yeah well bias you can still with a few weeks if not months 👍

[low mural]

#deep_space_pics message

Really enjoying this M16 Data!

[modest nebula]

very nice

[rugged jackal]

Very nice Hubble palette .

[modest nebula]

just taken my Evoguide 50ED apart to see how the focuser works. There's 0.3mm of slack inside that I think can be taken up with a washer. I've ordered a 0.2mm so let's see if it improves things

if it does, I'll try to get it perfect and then make a DIY EAF 🙂

[low mural]

Braver than me!

[low mural]

If you get something going, you may have a customer

[modest nebula]

it's pretty simple actually. There's literally 3 parts. The rotating bit has a 3mm flange that sits inside a 3.3mm groove made by the other 2 parts screwed together. That extra 0.3mm is what's causing the backlash. If I can take some of that out with a washer, we'll be onto a winner

[modest nebula]

just ordered a MyFocuserPro2 circuit board. Could only get a pack of 5 actually. Grand total, delivered, £2.77. I'll keep 2 of them and ebay the rest 😄

[lament lion]

These clouds are killing me, been itching to image for a while now and cannot 😭 also 1100 text in this chat let’s go you guys 👏

[ancient crescent]

1102 now

[low mural]

Yeah I just set up and a haze came in. No good when shooting low to the horizon. The UK has had some surprisingly good nights the last few weeks. I think over the last month I have gathered almost 20 hours of data!

[low mural]

Keep us updated!

[lament lion]

Also just got the William optics wedge today, since the skywatcher wedge just doesn’t do the job, so hopefully since it’s a better quality wedge and heavy that it will do a better job

[modest nebula]

Also very short nights unfortunately. Longest day of the year soon though

[modest nebula]

How to improve the Skywatcher Wedge to make it clamp properly https://astro.wheep.co.uk/hardware/wedge/

[rugged jackal]

If it was not for this thread and all the help, suggestions, envy, goading etc given by the 'bros' my wallet would not be as thin as it is now, also I'd still be trying to fix a toilet roll to the mount so I can use it to polar align , or taken up something less hard like learning to fly a 777.🙏

Do any of you go to dark sites?

if so, how do you power all the equipment etc?

[rugged jackal]

Sounds nice and expensive, keep us updated on how good it is!

[rugged jackal]

Clouds rolling in

Venus is bright and clear but rest N and E are hazy.

[low mural]

I don't drive so I dont have that luxury haha. But AZ-GTI is optimal at 12v 3amp. I think a lot of batteries can output that power. Mini PCs vary. Mine is 12v 2amp. You could then remote to your phone

[low mural]

I wouldn't rely on Venus for too long to focus with, it's getting very low.
Try and use a star like Altair, Vega, Arcturus or Deneb.
I usually lick a star close to my target for focus.

No clouds where I am tonight. (For now) I want to squeeze in some more m16 data considering I only get about 30 mins a night before it goes behind a neighbours house haha

[rugged jackal]

Just had another Mr Bean night, will disclose the full absurdity of the failure in the morning, after a cup of java and some sherlocking for I know not how it occurred.

[modest nebula]

I plan to work on a battery solution at some point so I can do just this

[rugged jackal]

So last night's comedy - started early so i can catch venus above my neighbours tree and roof, focused, pleased with myself. Look how not like Mr Bean I am, slewing here, slewing there.

Pointed North as always for TPAA, clouds rolling in, very bright, waited. got dark and a mix of whimsy and menacing cloud wise, started TPPA, Plate solve 1 done, 2 done, 3 no no no. Why? Maybe clouds. Pointed in different darker skies. no plate solve, Changed solver, no plate solve,

Refocused, yeah slighly out for some reason, no plate solve, restart NINA and computer, stars are bloated, star trails - turn off - then on mount. Turned everything off and on, looked at the lens - dirty - much dirtier than I expected! how? Filter staring at me - is that a scratch, can't be I have not taken it out of the imaging extension.

Carried on, clouds thicker then got lighter, refocused, pointed back to North... many days later, lets look at the filter - there is a great big smudge of something unmentionable (since I don't know what it was but greasy, removed it, put back imaging train without filter voila plate solved.

Cleaned (most likely damaged the filter) put it back in and plate solved.

1am. Napoleonesque defeat. Go to bed.

[rugged jackal]

What about a car inverter such as https://www.amazon.co.uk/1200W-Inverter-Converter-Sockets-Suitable/dp/B0C3R9T8K3/ref=sr_1_53?adgrpid=52572840469&hvadid=259039774542&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9045535&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=4116405623143425444&hvtargid=kwd-315484106809&hydadcr=28152_1724844&keywords=car+inverter+240v&qid=1686914071&sr=8-53

[modest nebula]

Yeh one option is a leisure battery which is just like a car battery but tuned differently with an inverter. It seems kinda weird to convert 12v to 240v just to convert back to 12v though, so the other option is to use DC-DC converters

[modest nebula]

Those shims arrived for taking slack out of the focuser. The good news is that they did take some slack out, bad news is that I didn't order enough shims so I've got to wait for more to be delivered

[rugged jackal]

But can you connect an extension and plug in all the devices such as mount, camera, dew heater, etc?

[rugged jackal]

cloudy tonight for me

[rugged jackal]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mSM1DzmZZAwQW2pFivkuyZexbBnamjkN/view?usp=sharing

No dust smotes this time but vignetting and odd shaped stars and comet-ery effects on some and no nebula?

[rugged jackal]

150 subs at 50s, ISO-1600, 20 darks, flats, dark flats processed in ASTAP.

[low mural]

Will have a look at this tonight!

[rugged jackal]

Thanks

[low mural]

The Vignetting is really strong. How are you connecting your camera? Through 2 inch or 1.25inch?

There is some nebula. The comet effects. Are because of the lack of field flattener and that is probably making the vignetting worse too

Also as your camera is not astro-modified, it will be difficult to pull out the nebula detail.

I struggled with the Pelican nebula last year when I wasnt guiding

That was my image last year

I will see what I can do to bring out some nebula in yours

[rugged jackal]

I use a 1.25" extension tube and a svBony CLS filter to cut out the light pollution, (this is the same filter which I found to have a rather horrible smudge on it 🤪 . I have ordered a 2 inch extension tube to reduce the vignetting but then will lose the use of the filter! As for the flattener, ENS do not have one with a m42 adapter and the StellamIra Reducer-Flattener m42 is out of stock, 🧐

BTW Did the flat frames work?

[low mural]

I'm sure there would be an adapter out there somewhere? Might be worth contacting an astro shop like FLO to see exactly what you need if you purchase that reducer? As you may need spacers to get correct back focus. But yes I think having 1.25 access with your camera sensor is going to cause some inevitable vignetting.

The flats worked at removing any dust motes! I would say the vignetting is too strong for the flat frames to remove.

In terms of suggested target. I would either take a lot more data on ne ula such as Pelican or Eagle. Or go for something like star clusters or Dumbbell nebula? It's hard to pull out Ha with a stock dslr.
That being said, M31 will be arriving again soon!

[rugged jackal]

Thanks once again for the invaluable help, seriously this thread; all the contributors have been vital for my progression and slowly getting better, including being able to get fairly decent calibration frames, doing TPPA, focusing, installed a mini pc, but of course the rest of the mountain needs to be climbed and this is a slow hobby - clouds, rain, light pollution all hinder, and of course money!

Your pelican image is impressive and wish I could do that much - I am not getting great results but progressing and will be adding the flattener as suggested - major problem is that every time I come here my wallets gets lighter

I had tracked the pelican at 50 seconds - is that OK? if so can I push to 60s? Weekend wasted - all clouds and torrential rain today.

[rugged jackal]

sky is clearing up, but is it worth shooting - as it won't get darl until 11ish?

[modest nebula]

cloudy here in SE

well, kinda. It's been a lovely day, but a little cloudy now and it'll get worse overnight

and besides, let's me honest, this time of year, you'll wait until gone midnight to get some decent dark, then it'll start getting light approaching 3am

I'm going to concentrate on some improvements to my kit over the next month or so

[rugged jackal]

I am divided, though want to shoot but when I look at the cost to benefit - cost being time, effort, lack of sleep to the benefit ie , practice, number of subs, but astro dark is between 12 and 3. 2am is my limit to remain a functional human and while I write this, it is getting cloudy...

[modest nebula]

I can do perhaps 2:30 if I'm on a roll, but after that I lose interest 😄

btw, this should be your home page on your web browser 😄 https://www.metoffice.gov.uk/weather/maps-and-charts/cloud-cover-map

[rugged jackal]

See that tiny gap between the 2 giant clouds that's me looking up

[modest nebula]

😄

[rugged jackal]

Venus is visible, but cloudy

[scarlet stump]

I can't connect my az gti to my computer
It says cannot connect unexpected response
I have reinstalled the program but there is no difference

[modest nebula]

which program?

[scarlet stump]

Synscan pro@modest nebula

[azure solar]

if you're using the cable then switch to green swamp server

[scarlet stump]

I connect it through its WiFi

[modest nebula]

I can't help. Not used Synscan or wifi for ages

[rugged jackal]

I think most of us have moved to using the EQmod cable (available from amazon for about £26) because it is much more reliable compared to the wifi connection.

however, have you tried connecting to it via your phone?

Try that first, can you connect, move the mount, can you align etc?

[low mural]

I was using wifi for a while in the synscan app then it just packed up and never worked again. Not sure if its due to the firmware update

[rugged jackal]

Also I had issues because I would power the scope using batteries - when their charge declines it would behave very erratically. I moved to powering it via mains.

[scarlet stump]

@rugged jackal
It connects with my phone and it is reliable

[rugged jackal]

So at least that confirms your mount's wifi is working and that you can connect, just not with your windows PC? Are you able to see the mount's wifi ssid in your PC's wifi settings? Is the connection stable? I found my connection with my android phone was more reliable than the PC. There may be a conflict - did you install a new app? if so perhaps remove that. I had an issue with a conflict when I installed an app - lost the use of my camera!

Also check if there is an IP / channel conflicts. Maybe worth turning of your router,

BTW this is the cable i referred to: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08LPC1F5W/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

The other thing I can suggest is to install the latest mount firmware, also install latest updates to windows.

[scarlet stump]

Well, i can connect the mount with an older computer but with my new laptop it say unexpected error.and after trying for a while it finally connects, but it is not that reliable @rugged jackal

[low mural]

Things to try:
Reinstall the Synscan app on PC
Check PC for updates (non updated pc's can affect wifi)
Run a firmware update on the az-gti
Try a different wifi card (like a usb wifi adaptor)

But an EQmod cable is much more reliable. No connection drop outs or latency issues! Well worth it.

[modest nebula]

and, you can make your own if you're into DIY and have the tools. Mine cost me about a fiver 🙂

[rugged jackal]

I wish I knew that before I over paid amazon when I could have sent you a tenner for it !

[scarlet stump]

@modest nebula
How do i make my own?

[modest nebula]

you need a USB serial board like this:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2334524.m570.l1313&_nkw=usb+serial+board&_sacat=0&LH_TitleDesc=0&_odkw=usb+serial+adapter+ftdi&_osacat=0

then you need an RJ12 cable wired to the serial board like this https://eq-mod.sourceforge.net/eqdirect2.htm

just needs 3 wires connected - ground, transmit and receive

for Rj12 cable, I guess you could get something like this and cut one end off. Make sure you get a cable with all wires connected though because sometimes phone cables only have some wires missing which will probably be the ones you need https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275062689399

[modest nebula]

To be honest, if I didn't already have the bits laying around I probably would have bought that one off Amazon. It's far less hassle.

[scarlet stump]

@modest nebula ok
I think i am going to make my own then...
Thanks

[rugged jackal]

Been meaning to ask this for a while, in NINA sequencer it gives me an option to dither - I heard that is good for removing noise, should I turn this on (I am unguided and use a dslr) and how often etc. Thanks.

[lament lion]

@rugged jackal You can still dither and should, you just have to connect to the direct guider in the connection settings and set up how much to dither by that you want

[modest nebula]

a friend of mine 3d printed a couple of drive cogs for the 50ED for the focuser project. I only actually need one, but I guess I've got one spare too

[rugged jackal]

Thanks for the advice, please suggest a number for the 'dither every #' field in the sequencer?

[low mural]

Really looking forward to seeing how this goes!

[low mural]

At 30 seconds I used to dither every 3. That was enough to remove walking noise

The longer the exposure, the more you should dither. When I do 5 min subs, I dither every exposure

[rugged jackal]

OK, thanks, if I understand this right in my case dither every 3 for 30-60s exposure?

[low mural]

I would say so. If you are still getting noise, then try every 2 exposures

[rugged jackal]

Also since it is Friday hence obligatory clouds!!!!

BTW what does dithering look like during a shoot? What should I expect?

[modest nebula]

your target in your photos will look slightly off centre after each dither

the stacking program will realign them based on the stars

then after stacking, you'll have a border around the edge that looks a little weird (the overlap) that you'll need to crop

[rugged jackal]

Thank you, very useful information.

[rugged jackal]

Took a risk, skies pretty clear, focused, tppa ... And yep u guessed it biggest pile of sh... Clouds you don't want in the middle of doing tppa 😑

Looking at the met's weather app, if only we were in France or Spain, or even down south like Salisbury

There goes my dithering for tonight

[modest nebula]

fits perfectly 🙂

I'm in awe at the quality of this item too. You can hardly tell it's 3d printed. None of the usual tell-tale signs like the bracket that you see in that same pic

[modest nebula]

also, I did this https://astro.wheep.co.uk/hardware/evoguide-50ed-focus-improvements/

[rugged jackal]

Looks awesome

[scarlet stump]

Is it worth guiding with az gti?
The max exposure i can get unguided is 11sec and i am a bit worried

[azure solar]

100% Imo, I couldn't go over 30s with mine but could do 90s with guiding

[scarlet stump]

What is your setup?

Do you have any pictures of your work?@azure solar

[azure solar]

I changed mount now but I had the azgti, evostar 72ed, canon 1300d stock, svbony 30mm guide scope and a 120mm mini to guide

[azure solar]

sure, 1 sec

[scarlet stump]

Those are great!
What settings did you use?@azure solar

[azure solar]

iso 1600 for orion and m27, iso 800 for andromeda. all 90s subs

wait I think it was 800 for m27 too

[scarlet stump]

Have you tried getting more than 90sec?@azure solar

[azure solar]

yes but it wasn't consistent enough to be worth it

[scarlet stump]

Oo i see
I use nina for PA
Should i try something else?

[azure solar]

I use sharpcap

with the guidescope, much faster than with the dslr

[scarlet stump]

Is nina as accurate as sharpcap?

[azure solar]

Should be just as accurate

[rugged jackal]

Superb work, great to see these - lots of talented people - very aspirational.

[azure solar]

thanks, I've improved a lot since then thanks to the new mount. Much less of a headache compared the azgti

[modest nebula]

Last night's target - Eastern Veil Nebula, approx 1hr of data

[azure solar]

nice, I forgot to post my attempt at it with the azgti. I think I reworked it like 7-8 times lol

I still don't like this image ngl but yours has a lot more detail, gj

[modest nebula]

mine's real noisy but I'm pleased with the way it came out

I'd like to get an image of the entire cygnus loop but I don't have the fov for it

[azure solar]

it's very large yeah, gotta use something with less than 200mm of fl

[modest nebula]

mine's 240mm but I think even with a large sensor, that still wouldn't do it (goes to check in Stellarium)

oh, my Nikon DX format camera would capture it all with this scope. I might try that at some point

[rugged jackal]

Would be great to see your work.

[scarlet stump]

How do i connect my guide cam with the az gti

[modest nebula]

you don't. you connect your guide cam to your computer via usb, then your software on your pc sends pulse guiding signals to the az-gti via usb (or wifi). It does not use ST4

[scarlet stump]

How long should my exposures be with guiding
My main is 500m

500mm

[azure solar]

Depends on how well the mount guides

[rugged jackal]

Oh wow, that is a cracking image, you must have a good camera is it an iphone 😆 , seriously that is a really nice image, well done, another one to emulate. One day...

[rugged jackal]

I dream of being able to produce such 'poor' images.

[azure solar]

don't worry you'll get there, I had a pretty much identical setup to yours + guiding

[rugged jackal]

This is the stacked image of the Dumbbell Nebula as suggested by @low mural https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ArtGTCljOem9XWk1UsXitw-bXaRDdFBQ/view?usp=sharing

2 sessions's data, total of 433 Subs at 35 seconds, dither on every 3, direct guiding, darks, flats & dark-flats applied. Stacked in ASTAP.

[low mural]

Sorry for the lack of messaging guys! I have just come back from my holiday in Spain funny enough. And it was very hazy due to the saharan sand coming over! Hot though! Loving the video nebula images, this is my next target! @modest nebula i will have a read on your website about your focusing project!
@rugged jackal may take a look at your M27 stack tonight

[rugged jackal]

Thanks @low mural appreciate your feedback, I think I certainly need to get that flattener, waiting on pay day, 🧐 , sometimes I think your job here in reality is to make sure I eat less and astro more.

and welcome back, looking at the weather app, Spain had very little cloud!!!

[low mural]

Yes the flattner will really improve your images. But I must say, BRAVO! Stars are lovely, calibration frames has removed Vignetting and dustmotes. Couple of artifcats but not horrendous. This is fab! Well done! Quite normal to not see much red as its Ha and I am guessing your camera is stock. But really great work here @rugged jackal Best image yet! (Here is a really quick process, may have another go at it tomorrow!)

Have you tried processing it yourself @rugged jackal?

Here is the full autostrethed image without any editing. The edges are normal as you always crop down, and you can see the elongated stars around the edges because of the lack of field flattener, but what you can see is a well focussed image with lovely stars! & what you cannot see if vignetting, walking noise and dustmotes!

[low mural]

Yes, techically there was no cloud, it was sand lol. But stilll would have been terrible for imaging!

[modest nebula]

woah, that's real good! I told you before that you'd be getting fantastic results once you sorted calibration frames. Bravo!

[scarlet stump]

Will the az gti be able to handle 3,5 kg?

What telescope do you have on yours?

[rugged jackal]

Wow @low mural - great processing, I know it is my data but kudos to your ability to get the image! Thanks to you and all others, you are helping me improve bit by bit and helps to have some cloud free nights. My A6000 is unmodified and will be saving up to buy a dedicated astro-cam but my next purchase will be the flattener. I am now OK with the Darks & biases which I take immediately after my session but still struggling to get the flats right. Though they worked well but astap was moaning about the flats not matching correctly and applying corrections!

[rugged jackal]

Thank you for all the help - improving bit by bit.

[rugged jackal]

Yes so all that help is paying off, thanks to everyone again, suggesting I use dither and every 3 and to nail focus/TPPA etc. Biggest improvement is the number of subs and the calib frames. 🙏

[modest nebula]

look what arrived from Hong Kong \o/

[rugged jackal]

Circuit boards for?

[modest nebula]

it will control a stepper motor to allow NINA to focus the telescope

[rugged jackal]

You mean you are building an auto-focuser? cool, I'd love to see how that works out. Please keep us updated.

This is my rough processing of the M27

[modest nebula]

Yes. I'll document here. https://astro.wheep.co.uk/

[scarlet stump]

Can the az gti handle 6kg?

[azure solar]

it's rated for 5kg for visual

so definitely no

my setup with it was exactly 3kg

[scarlet stump]

If i take it down to 4,5 kg
Will i get promising results?

[azure solar]

what do you want to put on it?

[scarlet stump]

a skywatcher 102/500mm with a dslr
And a 70/350mm guide scope

[azure solar]

that's quite a lot, both in terms of weight and fl

[scarlet stump]

If i use a 30/180mm guide scope?

[azure solar]

eh not sure, the azgti has very lackluster quality controls so you may get a good unit able to handle that just like you could get a bad one that's almost unusable

[scarlet stump]

I think i m in the unfortunate team

Though i 've taken it apart and regressed it

[azure solar]

the azgti is good if you stick to wider fov, max 300mm Imo

[scarlet stump]

I have tried using the 70/350 with it
But its a cheap one and half of the picture needs cropping

[rugged jackal]

Good website, enjoyed reading the home page but is it WIP?

[modest nebula]

yeh, just started really. Perhaps it'll be done in a few weeks

[hollow lake]

Hi I use a length of wood that you attach to the saddle away from the mount and place my I phone on the wood with elastic bands, i then use this app to find Polaris .

[rugged jackal]

Looks an interesting method. can you show the 'wood and phone' on the scope, thanks.

[hollow lake]

A bit like this, it keeps the mobile phone away from any magnetic interference from the mount

[rugged jackal]

Hey I love the improvised method, would never have thought of this, is there a free version of the app for us mere android users?

[modest nebula]

This is interesting, but I think I'll stick with my NINA three point polar alignment

[hollow lake]

You can get the App for android but I think it’s about £2.50?
I used it to get sigma Octantis when I went to Australia to image

[low mural]

This is good. Just the stars are clipped. Did you run starnet?

[low mural]

That's a pretty cool way of doing it. TPPA would be much more accurate but for an initial alignment, it's a good idea!

[hollow lake]

Agreed, I was pleasantly surprised at how accurate it gets it, great for setting up in daytime

[modest nebula]

I've set 3 circular paving slabs in my garden, so when I place the tripod I'm almost aligned. NINA TPPA is then fine tuning. Great for my garden but your trick would work well for when I eventually go to a dark site

[hollow lake]

Similar to you I use bottle tops sunk in the lawn, keeps the wife happy 😊

[modest nebula]

great solution. Even more great when you tell the wife you have to renew the beer bottle tops on a regular basis, at least twice per evening 🙂

[low mural]

Yeah I need to do this. With the AZ-GTI i would just use a compass to position it roughly. Now I have the EQM35 I can use the polar scope and get as close at 1 arc min before TPPA

[low mural]

Aye, this is a good idea!

[rugged jackal]

Sorry for the late reply, no I have just been messing with Siril to see what I can do but will process properly after I have watched your clip again.

[rugged jackal]

Brilliant 😆.

[rugged jackal]

I have thought of doing the same but I have yet to find my sweet spot, North - houses, roofs and funny looks, South - trees, West - city centre light pollution, East is OKish, hence moving as per the target.

[rugged jackal]

Has anyone ever used Ali Express for astro gear? Any good? Any issues with customs?

[azure solar]

depends on the store, most stuff is fine. Just be sure to use paypal

[rugged jackal]

Thanks, good point about PayPal. What about customs?

[azure solar]

I never had anything get stopped by customs but I have only ordered cheap stuff

[rugged jackal]

I am looking at this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005744578799.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.22.7b1f3347hLsTdJ&pdp_npi=3%40dis!GBP!￡224.76!￡157.33!!!!!%40211b88ec16879634353011454eb617!12000034189386074!sh!UK!1841095672

For future upgrades, this is the one Cuiv reviewed and recommended (I think he recommended) but of course I'd love to get opinions from ypu guys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFNyhrGYlVw

[azure solar]

yeah I've seen that video, my concern would be the pixel scale

if it's tiny you need really good tracking and ideally guiding

evostar 72ed right?

[rugged jackal]

Yes that's right I use the evostar 72ED. Ahh right Cuiv has the advantage of a good scope and tracker which is guided.

[azure solar]

mh both your pixel scale and fov would be very small

.71"/pix

unless you stick with lucky imaging

[modest nebula]

in contrast, mine's 2.47"/pix

[rugged jackal]

Can I be honest and admit that I don't know what this means 🫢

Sorry.

[azure solar]

how wide of an erea you sensor pixels cover, the smaller the more accurate tracking as to be

for example with that pixel scale of .71"/pix you need guding to be lower than that, as a general rule of thumb

[modest nebula]

what camera do you have now Zulu?

[rugged jackal]

Yep the sensor on this camera is tiny and my az-gti is not a very accurate tracker esp since i don't have any guiding

[rugged jackal]

I have the sony A6000 mirroless.

[modest nebula]

https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/?fov[]=2654||8629||1|1|0&messier=31 <-- that's your Sony right now

[azure solar]

if I were you I would invest in guding rather than a different imaging camera

with my azgti that's what made the biggest difference

especially for polar alignment since I could use the guide cam with sharpcap

[modest nebula]

you'd be much more zoomed in so a plus point is that you can reach smaller objects

but as fenice said, your pixel scale is .71"/pix so your tracking would need to be very good to take advantage of that or you'd get blurry images

[rugged jackal]

Makes sense, I happened to see Cuiv's vblog and was wondering if the ...715C camera might be a good investment later on.

[modest nebula]

in my experience, an az-giti can do 0.6" on a good day but mostly ~1"

so even with good tracking, you'd mostly get blurred images

[rugged jackal]

Good job I asked. What would you buy re a budget guiding setup?

[modest nebula]

I wonder if it can bin though? if so you could enable 2x2 binning and double the effective pixel size for half the resolution

[azure solar]

resolution would be 1/4, not worth it Imo

I think? I may have messed up

[modest nebula]

yeh you're right

that cam doesn't have great FWC either but despite that, it's not bad for the price

[azure solar]

an asi 224 would have a bigger pixel scale, fov just as small as with the qhy

but Imo guiding would make more sense

[azure solar]

the cheapest you can go is asi 120mm (maybe used) and a generic 30mm guide scope

[modest nebula]

2nd hand is a good shout. I found one of these on ebay for less than £100 - cam + scope https://landseaskyco.com/products/altair-starwave-50mm-guide-scope-gpcam-mono-guide-camera-combo

[rugged jackal]

What ypu are saying is good sense, best to invest in guiding first and then upgrade as I improve my skill.

[rugged jackal]

I'll keep a look out. Thanks for the reality check lol

[modest nebula]

yeh, guiding will let you use your existing kit more efficiently, but it will also give you a lot more to learn. Don't expect it to work flawlessly on day 1 😄

[rugged jackal]

Most of my equipment is second hand lool sorry pre-loved.

[rugged jackal]

You know me - I am used to that now. 😆

[azure solar]

you can also set a new profile in nina to use the guide scope and camera as main scope so you can run tppa much faster

[modest nebula]

would this be a cheap alternative to an ASI224? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/304964114058

same chipset, and Altair isn't a bad manufacturer

[rugged jackal]

That would be so good, so my wish list is - Flattener first, then a guiding system.

[modest nebula]

would be native supported by NINA and Sharcap etc

[azure solar]

same sensor so yeah

[modest nebula]

those IMX224 sensors have massive pixels but very low resolution 😮

[low mural]

I used the asi224 for my first astro cam. Although it's good, i grew out of it quickly. I am using an Altair GPCAM3 178c for imaging now. Although not really a proper deep sky cam, i have got good results with it.
@rugged jackal I got an Atik GP secondhand for £60 and use that as a guidecam, when I upgraded my astro cam (hopefully in the next few months) I will be selling the Atik GP

[rugged jackal]

@low mural Did I understand you correctly that you will be selling your Altair GPCAM3 178C?

[low mural]

No sorry 😅 I would use the 178 as a guide cam and sell the ATIK GP which will make a good guidecam for you

[rugged jackal]

looool OK sorry I thought it was the same cam. Which one is the Atik GP?

[low mural]

https://www.atik-cameras.com/product/atik-gp/

[rugged jackal]

Right, cool. when you are ready to sell, let me know, hopefully we can do a deal. Appreciate it buddy.

[low mural]

You will be the first to know!

[scarlet stump]

How long can you take an exposure with az gti at 300 mm unguided

[low mural]

Each AZ-GTI is different. I maxed at about 40 seconds

[lament lion]

I agree with Benn, each is different I seem to have won the az gti lottery and got a good performing one, just take your time doing polar alignment and re due it about 3-4 times to make sure that the seeing from the atmosphere wasn’t effecting it, even now with guiding I will do 3 polar alignments the 1st one is to get it in a good rough spot, the 2nd time to fine tune it, and the 3rd just to make sure that if the atmosphere is wobbling and I’m not in a tolerance that I’m okay with

[lament lion]

Looking good, glad someone cam image…… had a clear night finally last Saturday but family was over and I crashed after and didn’t wake up till the morning 😭 and then last night but to hazy from the fire, and I’m seeing as of now a couple of clear skies Monday Tuesday and possibly Wednesday but I’m just hoping this haze will be gone by then

[rugged jackal]

Thank you! At the risk of being a stuck record, this thread has been invaluable - so many great people helping. Thank you.

I have followed (or as best as I can - I use GIMP not PS) @low mural's video clip on processing and this is my proper attempt at processing. Ta Da - I present the Dumbbell Nebula - 2 links - a tif and fits please feel free to offer advice etc...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15ZT-ed4hMRYYQeP3BbqxFSKAUekEDLPe/view?usp=sharing Tif

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PwZVciR0v7lWp_-QtCEfypWPqaiNTyV-/view?usp=sharing FIT

[scarlet stump]

And while guiding how long can you take or it again depends on luck?@low mural

[low mural]

150 seconds max but there are a lot of factors, payload, pixel size/focal length, balance, seeing cinditions etc

[scarlet stump]

I have seen a guy on YouTube that take 10minutes@low mural

[low mural]

Getting good @rugged jackal. I will do a video process of your data at some point for you too. May help you to get rid of the magenta coloured stars!

[low mural]

Again, depends on the mount, payload, focal length, balance, polar alignment accuracy, pixel size, guide scope, guide camera 😂
So although it may be possible to get 10 min subs, I would not expect it!

[scarlet stump]

Oh that's a bit disappointing

[low mural]

Not sure where you are based but most of the UK is bortle 4+. 10 mins will be washed out

Not many people take 10 min subs

[scarlet stump]

I am southern Europe
I bought a guiding cam and to try getting pictures of st least 120sec

[low mural]

I assume that mount was regreased/tuned too

[azure solar]

taking really long subs is risky if something like a plane or satellite passes in the fov the sub is ruined, gust of wind? sub ruined

can't dither effectively either

[scarlet stump]

How long do you guys take your exposures?

[azure solar]

2m unfiltered, 3m filtered

[low mural]

It depends on my targets. But yes would also depend on filters.

[scarlet stump]

I use a stock dslr for imaging

[low mural]

With my eqm35 mount I can take 5 min exposures but some targets are better to ahoot with lower expsoure times

An uncooled cam especially a dslr may have problems with thermal noise if the exposure is too long

[azure solar]

I take relatively short subs due to the light pollution and to get more effective dithering, with more overall subs you can dither more and get a cleaner result

[low mural]

Yeah I tend to stick to 120s - 180s and 300s if I am feeling lazy 😂

[azure solar]

yep, I tried 300s subs once and the final image was really noisy

[scarlet stump]

Ok, tomorrow will probably arrive my guiding camera so i can start shooting

[low mural]

What guiding equip did you get?

[scarlet stump]

I bought a bresser hd guiding camera
And i have a 30/120mm finder that i will turn into a guiding scope @low mural

[low mural]

This one

[scarlet stump]

Yes that one

Is it a good choice?
I asked around and they said it was good

[low mural]

Nice yeah that one is defo good enough for guiding. You did have me worried, i thought you got this one. Which i did to start with.. big mistake and returned it 😅

[scarlet stump]

I think that this one can't take long exposure @low mural

[low mural]

An astro store in the UK said it would work for guiding. definitely a lie

Yeah it could only do 1 second I think and I was being optimistic because I took the advice from an astronomy store!

[scarlet stump]

Some people only care about money unfortunately

What was your setup with the az gti?

[azure solar]

Better than my sv205, that camera was miserable

[scarlet stump]

At first i wanted to buy the sv105 but i found the bresser one

[low mural]

Evoguide 50ed & Altair Gpcam 178c
Generic 30mm guidescope & Atik GP guidecam
All connected to a mini PC

[empty sandal]

Use sharpcap

[rugged jackal]

That will be great, much appreciated, do you by any chance use GIMP? as you know I am a cheapskate and that is what I use

[modest nebula]

I use Gimp

Cuiv's latest video is very informative

[low mural]

I don't but I suppose I could give it a go! My employer pays for my photoshop as ot use it for work so I am quite lucky there haha

[low mural]

Super late to the party, but hi!!

[azure solar]

remember, it's always morally correct to pirate adobe software

[rugged jackal]

All the best people do!! 😆

[rugged jackal]

I hear you but Adobe has moved to a subscriber model and hence cannot lonnnnng test PS etc.

[azure solar]

wdym long test?

[rugged jackal]

in other words pirate

[azure solar]

oh you mean that since it's a subscription model it's harder to pirate or something?

[rugged jackal]

That's the best way to get PS, well done.

[rugged jackal]

Yes exactly - older PS would use a key which could be pirated but the subscriber model requires an online account and paying for a sub to be able to use it.

[azure solar]

I've been using a pirated version for a couple of years, it's not hard to bypass the account thing

I still have the installer if you want

[rugged jackal]

very interesting, and just for research purposes does anyone have a guide of some sort... ?

[azure solar]

the installer I have is literaly click setup and let it run

it's a 2020 version but that's fine for me

[rugged jackal]

again and just for research where does one get this installer, you know for research.

[azure solar]

pretty sure I got mine from piratebay

[rugged jackal]

There is a site called piratebay?? where have I been living?

[empty sandal]

😄

[azure solar]

under a rock apparently lol, it's been around for more than a decade

[empty sandal]

Hi

[rugged jackal]

Hahaha You are so right. Just went to that site, warnings all over to use VPN before doing anything. Selling Nord VPN - another subscription!!! - so I need a nord VPN cracked installer to get the PS cracked installer. 😆 🤪

[azure solar]

it would be safer to use a vpn (any not just nord vpn) but I just download anything without one

but check how many downloads, seeds and comments to check if a download is safe

[modest nebula]

or use Gimp 😛

I shall create an article on my website later showing some tricks I use when editing in Gimp

[rugged jackal]

Hi - welcome to the longest polar alignment ever 😆

[rugged jackal]

I look forward to that, perhaps add a couple of video tutorials?

[modest nebula]

screenshots 🙂

[rugged jackal]

Yeah that would be really useful.

[modest nebula]

I might also document my typical Siril workflow too

[rugged jackal]

Please do, esp with screen-shots - would be very useful.

[modest nebula]

I'll reprocess my east veil nebula data and screen shot it all the way

[rugged jackal]

That is one of my bucket list targets but my imaging dslr is not very good at picking up reds well not in bortle 7/8 skies.

[modest nebula]

You might be surprised at how well it goes. I just used a IR cut filter on mine. Not used narrow band on it yet

[empty sandal]

😄

[scarlet stump]

My bresser guide camera arrived

In phd2 what type of camera should i select?

[azure solar]

good question, I guess you'll have to try a few

[modest nebula]

@rugged jackal https://astro.wheep.co.uk/howto/process/ and https://astro.wheep.co.uk/howto/postprocess/

[rugged jackal]

Excellent - will try out the steps you have shown on my next project, please suggest a target. Does anyone use Pixinsight?

[modest nebula]

note, this is what I do. Not necessarily what is the "correct" way 😄

I will update as I learn more

I can't justify the expense if PixInisight for a hobby

[rugged jackal]

No imaging tonight thick blanket of grey unrelenting clouds

[modest nebula]

same here

[azure solar]

the eastern veil nebula is pretty easy to shoot, it's very bright (ngc6995)

[modest nebula]

I think @rugged jackal will catch more than just eastern veil with his micro 4/3rds

[rugged jackal]

Agree totally, it is an incredible price to purchase a license but most of the 'professionals' endorse it and the results are really good but for someone like myself at the low end of the curve, siril and gimp are good enough. However, I do endorse @azure solar moral argument to 'use' PS products whenever possible.

[modest nebula]

but, I think it will come out pretty good

[rugged jackal]

OK The Eastern Veil Nebula will be my next target. How many subs at around 35/40 seconds? My Sony is an APS-C sensor. I'd prefer to use my Fuji X-E1 as it is lower resolution and hence large pixels but cannot control via NINA.

[modest nebula]

that example on my website was 57 x 60

[azure solar]

mine was 257 across 3 nights

[modest nebula]

really, I needed 4x the data to get better signal to noise

[azure solar]

90s subs

[modest nebula]

next time I do it, I'll use my duo-band filter

the point is, just an hour of 60 sec subs will get you a pretty good result

4 hours even better, and so on

it will be a good target for you too, because it rises in NE. you'll get decent darkness by about 11:30pm onwards

[rugged jackal]

so if I do about 400/500 at 35 seconds that should be pretty decent data?

[rugged jackal]

Excellent and I can also try out your instructions on your website. Cool. sounds like a plan. Now if only I can get one you guys to clear the skies for tomorrow?

[modest nebula]

pfff yeh, it's the most frustrating hobby

at least I have my auto-focus to built. The stepper motor arrived along with half the components. So I can get soldering & making brackets, etc

[rugged jackal]

Sorry guys another question. My last processed image the Dumbbell looks much better in Siril but when saved in tif or png it is very dull and soft?
How can I improve or at least get a fairly close facsimile of the Siril image?

[rugged jackal]

This would be interesting to see develop and may try to copy it for my 72ED

[modest nebula]

never had that problem but if I were you I'd load it in Gimp and reset the levels,

[scarlet stump]

Gimp is pretty good
And i ve heard that it has some astrophotography plugins

[low mural]

Is you tif file 32bit? Change it to 16 bit before exporting

[rugged jackal]

Yes it is 32 bit ! Right I'll change to 16bit

[modest nebula]

hmm I've never had an issue with 32bit tif

[rugged jackal]

This is the 16 bit png

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o2vfLJzpM0LkCzahXqo6VcGp2_yMqNZn/view?usp=sharing

[modest nebula]

wow looks nice

[rugged jackal]

Thank you but it looks much nicer in Siril before I save it as a png or tiff - I seem to be losing a lot of the image data from the FITS to png?

[modest nebula]

do you have the fits on google drive?

[rugged jackal]

I do, it is - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PwZVciR0v7lWp_-QtCEfypWPqaiNTyV-/view?usp=sharing

[modest nebula]

ok but that's prior to processing

[rugged jackal]

Oh sorry let me try again

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_E-eq0V6h-POfzmu0VaSExCZ6x3DOIck/view?usp=sharing

[modest nebula]

had to adjust the levels slightly. it was very dark here

this is from Gimp

and here's a version I just did with your data. yours is much cleaner than mine

[azure solar]

Are the darks a bit clipped or is it an impression?

[rugged jackal]

I think this is better than my image. It has more detail.

[low mural]

Are you rysynthisizing your stars? If so, you do not need to unless your stars are elongated.

[rugged jackal]

Yes, again correct, I am resyn'ing the stars - right another note - do not remove stars if not elongated...

[low mural]

Putting a vid together for you now

[rugged jackal]

Thank you @modest nebula @low mural @azure solar

[low mural]

@rugged jackal I did not get on with GIMP so I processed in Siril only and the image came out pretty good for a 15 min process. Video link below along with the final PNG image and a link to my Kofi page if you fancy contributing anything towards my daughters new telescope.

Excuse my poor editing skills but I have tried to add some captions in there too.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1PiVfcTv08ozZ_vFJrr7r85GJPuw4j2yb?usp=sharing
https://ko-fi.com/astrobenn

[modest nebula]

Been working on a new process which seems to be getting good results. Instead of recombining starless and star mask in Siril, I do it in Gimp. I import the starless image, then create a 2nd layer which is a clone of the starless layer but I gaussian blur it quite heavily. I then mix it in with the starless image with a "lightness only" filter and enough opacity to fatten our the colour but to keep it sharp. I then add the star mask, stretch it a little until I'm happy with it, save the starmask layer as TIF and use AstroSharp on it, reimport the result. Result = colourful nebula and sharp stars.

[rugged jackal]

Nice image, thanks for the new video. I will be using that too, good to have the captions makes it easier to understand what is happening.

[rugged jackal]

Nice! I'll try it out too. Thanks.

[modest nebula]

documented at the bottom of this page https://astro.wheep.co.uk/howto/postprocess/

[rugged jackal]

Had a quick look - really good. Thanks for this. And I love the final image, wow.

Another night full of clouds, so bloo... annoying!

[low mural]

Hope it helps @rugged jackal and thank you for the kofi's

Clouds are supposed to clear up at about midnight here.. lets see

[scarlet stump]

Do you have any tips for imaging with the az gti?

[low mural]

1. Good polar alignment
2. Lightweight payload
3. Use EQmod instead of wifi
4. Use shorter exposures.
5. Well balanced.

Some people have been able to tune/regrease their az-gti. I did not trust myself though.

Its a great little mount!

[rugged jackal]

Of course the video tutorials and Beezer's written instructions are very useful. I think most people will agree that your (and other's) help and tutorials have been very helpful in improving my skills. In fact this thread contains so much useful stuff it should be pinned.

Clouds have cleared and though late I am going for the veil.

[scarlet stump]

What do you mean by shorter exposures?
My main scope is 500mm focal length @low mural

[low mural]

Just try not to push the mounts limits.
What scope do you have?

[scarlet stump]

A refractor 102/500mm@low mural

[rugged jackal]

Perhaps not a wise choice to set up tonight, it was clear and now mostly cloudy

[low mural]

Yeah I would say 500mm is pushing the mounts limits. You need to get PA as close as possible and make sure you are balanced carefully with a sturdy tripod. If you are guiding, you should get decent shots between 60-120 seconds. If you aren't guiding then i would not push past 30s.

That being said, some az-gtis perform better/worse than others.

[low mural]

Got my theory test tomorrow so decided not to embrace the clear skies, glad I didnt now as it has clouded over down here too 😂

At least we are approaching full moon during a low pressure system. Perhaps as the new moon approaches, we will get some clearer skies

[scarlet stump]

@low mural
I have seen a guy on YouTube that takes 20min long subs
Using a 500mm refractor telescope

How does he do it?

[low mural]

Send me the link

@scarlet stump

[scarlet stump]

https://youtu.be/bMJPKRQhEs4

@low mural here it is

I ve also seen him take 10min and 15min subs

[low mural]

2:36 in. He said "tonight I am going to be taking 300 second exposures"

I hang on. Yeah I see he said he will take 20 min exposures in Ha.

I am not sure how much I believe the 20 min exposures. That is coming from my 2 years of experience with the az-gti.

There are some things to think about though.

He is taking 20 min exposure in narrowband ha. If you did that in broadband, your image would be washed the hell out.

Even the top astrophotography dogs out there don't shoot 20 min exposures. There are a number of reasons such as:

1. Dithering is unreliable
2. Increased thermal noise
3. Atmospheric seeing conditions
4. Washed out images/heavy gradients

You are more than welcome to try and shoot 20 min exposures whilst guiding, but I am almost certain you will see some start trailing.

120 seconds is more than enough, there is no need to go higher. Its all about the quality of the single subs as well as quantity. Having more subs to stack will also increase signal to noise ratio.

If you look at the images in #deep_space_pics you will find that 99% of people shoot under 300 seconds

[scarlet stump]

Sο, he might be lying?
I will stick to 120sec though , i think it is ideal for my setup

[modest nebula]

I found this video oddly interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N60vzaIZq6Y

[low mural]

Yes cuiv did a good video on this 👍

[rugged jackal]

Anybody guess what I have done? Clue - Normally @low mural @modest nebula tend to be responsible for this behaviour.

[low mural]

Have you bought something?

[rugged jackal]

Yes - the flattener from ENS - lucky coincidence one of them was actually a M42 version which I bought. ENS is an incredible place - it is literally an Aladdin's cave of astro & optical equipment of every size & description and he is also Roboscopes - has an observatory in Spain, came back from Morrocco which he says is the best seeing he has err seen. And is about to go to Chile to work on another project.

[modest nebula]

that's the for 72ED?

[rugged jackal]

I bought the Stellamira reducer flattener for the 72ED scope.

0.8 reducer

[modest nebula]

I might have to buy a 72ED at some point. They look great

[rugged jackal]

I got it cheap from amazon for £270

I used it last night and found it seems add more noise???

and hence was finding it hard to focus

[low mural]

Amazing! Did you manage to pop in?

[low mural]

Yeah with the flattener, the focal point will change. You may find it easier to get close to focus during daylight with a tree or building far away.

It shouldn't introduce more noise, it should let in more light though. Perhaps reduce you ISO or exposure a bit when taking test shots?

Remember your field of view will be wider! See the example below with M31. Red eithout reducer, yellow with. (Couldn't remember which camera you have but it will gove you an idea)

Also remember you will need new flats and dark flats!

[modest nebula]

also, now you have a flattener, the distance between your flattener and your camera is critical. Make sure this is correct

[rugged jackal]

right, another thing to understand and get right. Please see image above.

The reducer is attached directly to the scope, then I have the m42 to NEX camera dapater and then the camera

[modest nebula]

that should be ok because you're using a proper t-ring adapter. But you can easily check it. That symbol on your camera that looks like a circle with a line through it should be 55mm away from the flattener

[low mural]

@modest nebula is correct here, back focus is very important. The gap between your sensor and flattener should be 55mm

[rugged jackal]

Hard to measure but looks around 54-55mm from the flattner. I tested the focus during the day and can focus clearly on the chimneys and street lights using the focuser but found it harder last night - think because it was hazy skies.

[rugged jackal]

It is either 54.5 or 55mm - I can slot one end of the callipers in the camera sensor line (the O symbol) but have to judge it for the start of the T2 adapter because it is slightly lower from the camera body so have to judge it.

[modest nebula]

it'll be fine

[rugged jackal]

Great.

I tried to do a session last night, TPPA was very good, even with some clouds - it can see through them and plate solve!! and was able to polar alighn within 20 mins.

[modest nebula]

it's looking mostly clear for me tonight, so going to focus on setting up PHD2. I need to tune my backlash settings

no imaging for me tonight though

[rugged jackal]

Very cloudy at the moment - but to be expected as I have purchased new equipment. 😆

[low mural]

Yeah we got rain here at the moment!
My L-Enhance filter arrives tomorrow!

[rugged jackal]

https://www.roboscopes.com/index.php

[lament lion]

It’s going to finally be clear tonight for me, but since it’s the 4th in the states idk if it’s going to be worth it from smoke from fire works…. It’s always something every time it’s a clear night for me recently

[low mural]

Remote Observatory is a great idea. Especially for people who are not physically able for health reasons or people who live in small flats with no outside space.
I do get a sense of enjoyment capturing images from my back garden though!

[modest nebula]

yeh, and I get enjoyment in maintaining, tweaking and tuning my own gear

[rugged jackal]

I agree, the whole point for me is learning this difficult subject, sorting out problems and to finally get the image - I get a great sense of achievement.

[modest nebula]

just worked out a technique to get stars looking real good in Gimp. I'll document soon

[rugged jackal]

Brill, thanks.

[modest nebula]

bottom of this page https://astro.wheep.co.uk/howto/postprocess/

[modest nebula]

hmm now I'm not so sure about this. will have to play with it some more

[lament lion]

Gotta love the 4th………

[low mural]

Yes! Just arrived!

[rugged jackal]

Sorry for the late reply, yes I managed to pop in and it is a strange and wonderful place. In an industrial business area, narrow front with big iron railings on the window and door. Need an apptmt to visit and the guy opens the door on buzzing. And it is 2 long and wide floors of mayhem - astro equipment everywhere top to bottom, telescopes, cameras, lens, adapters, filters, mounts, everything in hundreds, it was astronomy cave - literally a treasure cave of astro and optical gear.

He has about 5X the amount of stuff in his 'shop' that is not listed in his website.

[rugged jackal]

I would be so frustrated, what part of the US is this? and a belated happy 4th of July.

[rugged jackal]

Brilliant - can't wait to see the results from this filter. Bit it also means - clouds and more clouds.

[modest nebula]

spend some time rediting my veil data using the techniques I documented on my website. It's far less noisy now and I'm relatively happy with how it looks, especially for less than an hour of wideband data

[rugged jackal]

Nice, lovely colours, unfortunately my attempt was really poor - lots of noise to signal.

[low mural]

Nice work! Looking to shoot this target next!

[modest nebula]

It should look awesome with your new filter

[low mural]

Tomorrow night is looking promising!

[modest nebula]

tonight looks good for me. I have sky from 11pm onwards, fully clear at midnight

[rugged jackal]

cloudy for me

[low mural]

Damn I have the opposite tonight. Clear now, cloudy at midnight 😂

[modest nebula]

When I looked earlier, I had a 3hr windows. Now that's reduced to an hour if I'm lucky, so that's that for this evening then 😦

[low mural]

How did E Halley and W Herschel become such great astronomers when they had to battle the british weather like we do

I got this little freebie from one of those chinese apps that sell junk. Thought it might be worth a go 😂 its got some power in it tbf. Need to find a way to stop the blue light though

[rugged jackal]

They must have started very young - like when they were 3 years old, otherwise there would not have been enough clear skies for them to make their discoveries. 😆

Tragically all very cloudy for me all week.

[sour coyote]

just unplug the led or break it

there is an led under the fan probably

[modest nebula]

1 step closer. stepper motor is mounted with belt. Now to finish the electronics

[scarlet stump]

It looks good @modest nebula

[low mural]

Nice one!

[low mural]

Exactly what I did!

I was too tired to go out last night but tonight is looking promising!

[modest nebula]

last night was great. Unfortunately, tonight is too, so I'll be knackered tomorrow

[rugged jackal]

Hi guys please advise, I tried the veil nebula but I am getting faint images - should I keep going and take more frames tonight or try something else - please suggest some targets.

[rugged jackal]

Looking really good, wish I could do something like this.

[modest nebula]

You can do anything if you put your mind to it. That bracket was made with a bit of aluminium from B&Q, a hack saw and a drill. It's nothing fancy 🙂

[scarlet stump]

Any ideas on how to improve it?

[azure solar]

you could try to run the guiding assistant

[azure solar]

regreasing the mount would also help but how much the azgti can improve is very limited

[modest nebula]

mine's actually behaving at the moment

and we're live https://astro.wheep.co.uk/livestack/

[scarlet stump]

@azure solar i have regreased it
I will try again tomorrow
At least i got some very good 1min subs

[azure solar]

normal azgti shenanigans then 🤷‍♂️

[modest nebula]

mine was mucking around at the beginning of the evening until I remembered I rotated the guide cam. A quick recalibration sorted that

[low mural]

Poor guiding for me today too! Took me 2.5 hours to set up so I am just running with it!

@scarlet stump have you calibrated properly? Are you accurately polar aligned? Have you taken darks for your guide cam and have you ran the guiding assistant

I'm getting 1.18" at the moment but the stars are coming out round enough. Took my ages to get focused and polar aligned with the l-enhance 😂

Single sub is look ok!

The cheap chinese fan has knocked about 2 degrees off my camera temp 😂

[low mural]

Overall its quite a faint target. Keep going you will be surprised once you stack

[rugged jackal]

The sub looks great - Veil Nebula? I am going for that too but mine looks like this:

[low mural]

Yeah it's there. My bortle zone is better than yours and I am using a dual band filter so I am removing most of the LP. You will be surprised with what you have once stacked!

Stars are looking tight! And no more elongated stars at the edges too!

[rugged jackal]

Right I'll carry on

[rugged jackal]

Well you keep making me spend money I mean improve that's right improve.

[low mural]

Capitalism sucks 🤣

Everyone should be handed astrophotography gear by the state!

[rugged jackal]

Sure does but the socialist capitalism is the worst.

[rugged jackal]

I second that or at least take away the profiteering by ZWO et al

[low mural]

I think 2am will be my limit tonight.

1:30 i will start on the calibration frames!

[rugged jackal]

@low mural how much was the L enhance?

if u don't mind me asking

[low mural]

£130 😭

It wouldnt be worth you getting one until you get an astro cam I would say

[rugged jackal]

I think ENS will be my new best friend or I will be theirs but need to save up. I should have taken photos to show you what a crazy place it is.

[low mural]

Yeah you are lucky to have something like that local to you!

[modest nebula]

this has been guiding at ~1" all evening. I'm actually impressed for a change

[low mural]

Impressive for the az-gti i must say. What guidecam do you have again?

I have got an hour's worth of data. Wanted at least 2 but hey ho. Gnna run for another 3 subs (12 mins) and wrap up with calibration frames 🥱

Quick uncalibrated stack and auto stretch. Now that looks promising!!!

My amp glow is horrendous 🤣

[low mural]

Very rough late night process but damn, this filter is good!! 1 hour of data so far

[scarlet stump]

Starnet ++ doesn't work
It says Microsoft.net framework problem

[azure solar]

Do you have .net framework installed?

[scarlet stump]

I solved it
I installed a vc runtime file and worked@azure solar

[rugged jackal]

Like it, your rough is my cut diamond.

[modest nebula]

Wow nice! It'll be even better when you process it

[sour coyote]

this was his final process in deep sky pics

[modest nebula]

nice. almost as good as mine 😛

[low mural]

Your framing is better than mine. My sensor is just too small 😂

[modest nebula]

here's mine from last night. Once again, far too noisy. Way too much light pollution here. I'll need to get another few nights of data to make this one better

[sour coyote]

what scope

[modest nebula]

Evoguide 50ED

[sour coyote]

damn 505c too

thats great for a 505c lol

[modest nebula]

my camera is undersampling too

[sour coyote]

gives me hope for my uranus-c

[sour coyote]

this is my only photo I got so far, 8 minutes worth of data

[low mural]

What noise reduction method are you using @modest nebula ?

[modest nebula]

Nothing special. I put a tif from Siril into Gimp, get it looking best I can. I then clone the layer and apply a gaussian blur. I get that one independently looking good but deliberately different. I then reduce opacity on the 2nd layer to get a reasonable balance between sharp and blurred

[sour coyote]

I am surprised I got HA off m82

in 8 minutes of data

[modest nebula]

I must re-do my calibration frames. I think that will help

[modest nebula]

your 8mins is better than my 1.5hrs! I couldn't get anything out of it. Mind you, that was months ago and I've learnt a lot since then https://astro.wheep.co.uk/2023/05/16/bodes/

[sour coyote]

I imaged in a b4

thats prob why

[modest nebula]

I'm perhaps 7 here

[low mural]

Yeah that is pretty much how I do it but within PS instead.

All this time, i thought you had a 705c lol. Yeah your images are decent with an imx464 sensor. The SNR isn't great on it. In Fact i think my little imx178 may be better. Your pixel size is 2.9 too right? This is what concerns me with getting the imx585 tbh. My pixel size currently is 2.4 and even that is slightly undersampled

[modest nebula]

yeh, really I need a smaller pixel size. It's making the stars look quite bad

mind you, I paid less than £100 for this sv505c and I only got it because it was available and had a larger sensor so got me a bigger fov

[low mural]

Yeah that's decent. Do you drizzle? That should improve your stars a bit.

I think the 505c is very sensitive in IR too

[modest nebula]

yeh. mostly 2x but if it looks good, I'll try 3x

[modest nebula]

yes, but I don't yet have an IR pass filter

[low mural]

What camera are you considering investing in?

[modest nebula]

I didn't yet 😄

[low mural]

I will rephrase, which camera would you ideally and realistically like to have

[modest nebula]

something cooled, something with a larger sensor size, something with smaller pixels

but, I'm still learning stuff with this one, and each time I try I get better and better results. So, I'm happy until my ability exceeds my equipment

for example, last night I learnt that if you rotate your guide cam, it freaks out until you recalibrate. Obvious really 😄

[low mural]

Yeah I get you! I feel like I am approaching the limits of my 178c but then again this L-enhance filter has opened some new opportunities!

[low mural]

I am yet to remove my guidecam from my guidescope but I will now bear that in mind. It does make sense for guiding to freak out but an easy thing to miss!

[modest nebula]

I figure I'll keep my gear this year because as well as my skills improving, the sky is also changing which gives new challenges. Perhaps next year I'll get a new cam

[low mural]

Sounds good! I am hoping to get a C5 or C6 for my daughter for Christmas as she is really into planets at the moment. I thought it may be good for me too. I can then dip my toes in planetary imaging and possible to use it for galaxy season. (Then again I would be oversampled with my current camera, even with the focal reducer) either way Its a win win!

[modest nebula]

the thought of planetary bores me to death

[scarlet stump]

My attempt on omega nebula
It is about an hour worth of data

[low mural]

My daughter will be amazed by the images haha

[low mural]

Nice one!

[modest nebula]

did you guys see this graph someone posted the other day?

dunno if it's true or not, but it feels it 😄

[low mural]

Damn, surely not.. that looks painful! Now I feel bad for being in bortle 5/6 😂

[rugged jackal]

cool image well done

[scarlet stump]

Thanks
Though i have some problems with guiding

Something is very wrong here

[azure solar]

that's just normal azgti jank

try to lower minmo a bit

how long are your guide subs?

[scarlet stump]

1min

[azure solar]

guide subs, not main cam

[scarlet stump]

Sorry
2seconds

[azure solar]

should be fine, have you ran the assitant already?

[scarlet stump]

Yes

So this graph is normal for the az gti?

[azure solar]

pretty much, you could try to smooth it out a bit by playing with minmo and aggression

[scarlet stump]

Ok, i will try it today

[azure solar]

this is how my guide graph looked on my azgti

[scarlet stump]

Despite the graph the subs should be fine ?

[azure solar]

if the total wobble is lower than the pixel scale you're fine

[scarlet stump]

Ok

How long were your subs?

And at what focal length?

[azure solar]

420mm, 90s

I usually trashed about 20% of the subs

but I kept other that with higher standards weren't really worthy

[scarlet stump]

Ok
Thanks for the help
I will let you know how i did

[azure solar]

btw aggression can go over 100, so you could try to set it to 120 or so if the pulses don't correct enough

[low mural]

What was your total RMS?

[scarlet stump]

I do not remember,
I wil take a picture and share it here later tonight

Does your graph also look horrible?@low mural

[low mural]

Well depending on how you display your graph, you can make it look horrible. So it is hard to tell by just looking at the graph.

Sub 2:00" is considered good for the az-gti but some people have been able to get sub 1:00".

In general sub 1:00" is optimal.

I used to get an average 2:50" total RMS with the az-gti

With the EQM35, I am getting an average of 0:90" total RMS

(This is measuring in Arc seconds rather than pixels, which is the recommended way to measure)

[modest nebula]

I can generally get ~1" with mine. sometimes lower, sometimes higher. It depends on how good your guide cam & scope is and how well you polar align. Also, make sure to keep your guide cam focussed & choose a good guide star in PHD2. It doesn't always auto-choose a good one

[random night]

What guide scope and cam would you recommend to pair with a 355mm scope? After having my travel rig unguided I'm thinking of venturing into the world of autoguiding so I don't have to ditch so many subs

[azure solar]

any 30mm guide scope will be fine

[random night]

It seems the zwo 30mm paired withe the asi120mm is the order of the day?

[azure solar]

the zwo scope is very expensive for what it is, honestly I can't suggest it

[random night]

Ok I'll look for a second hand 30mm scope from somewhere .Good tip, thanks

[modest nebula]

mine was a 2nd hand 50mm guide scope with a mono camera. I't probably overkill for my needs. I have no idea what would be optimal for your setup

well, I say 50mm. It's 202mm focal length

[azure solar]

I use a 60mm guide scope and while it's overkill it also guide so much better than my 30mm

I had like 1.1" / 1.4" rms vs .6 with the 60mm

[modest nebula]

mine's this one, with an older camera https://www.harrisontelescopes.co.uk/acatalog/starwave-50mm-guide-scope-gpcam.html

[random night]

Wow, that's quite a difference. I want to keep the guidescope small as it is a travel rig technically

[azure solar]

tbh I think it's a mix of a bad guide scope (the svbony one) and light pollution

[random night]

Looks worth considering. I think I'll se if anything comes up second hand though

My scope and camera resolution is about 1.7" so any guiding around that will be fine

[modest nebula]

I paid just under £100 for mine - scope + camera

the focuser on it is fantastic. I wish my Evoguide had it

got a built in rotator too. overkill for a guide scope

[random night]

I don't even have a rotator for my imaging setup!

[modest nebula]

me neither. I have to loosen the clamps and turn the whole scope! 😄

[random night]

Yup that's what I end up doing but my focuser fouls the dovetail if I do it too far so I'm limited

[low mural]

52.09"?!? Something is going horribly wrong there. It is likely a user error as I could not imagine any az-gti performing like that.

Have you input all your guidescope and guide cam settings correctly? Are you sure you ran the guiding assistant? It should have told you something was wrong 😅

[scarlet stump]

I don't even know 😂
I think tomorrow i will reset the app and do it all over again just to be Safe @low mural

[mental grotto]

holy hell

[scarlet stump]

Is this good?

[azure solar]

Not really, but better than the other night

In theory every pulse should bring the line back to 0 but with a lot of backlash it's hard

[scarlet stump]

The total error despite what i do keeps increasing

[low mural]

It's better but not considered good. I was getting okay 120s subs with this sort of RMS

Remind me, what scope and camera are you using for imaging?

If your pixel scale is lower than 2.52" you are going to get poor results

[low mural]

And you are definitely polar aligned? How are you polar aligning?

[scarlet stump]

Using nina@low mural

I have a 102/500mm refractor and a canon eos 2000d

[low mural]

And your total alignment is close to 0:00:00?

[scarlet stump]

Yes

[low mural]

So your resolution is 1.53" per pixel. So a total of 2.52" RMS is going to produce some poor results. Your total RMS should be equal to or preferably lower than your pixel resolution

[scarlet stump]

How do i lower the rms

[low mural]

So you have done all the main things stated below.

1. Correctly balanced your scope?
2. Focused guide scope?
3. Calibrated guiding in PHD with a high SNR star and a star low to the horizon?
4. Taken darks for your guidecam in Phd2?
5. Accurately polar aligned?
6. Updated firmware on az-gti
7. Guiding via ascom and not st4
8. Ran guiding assistant for more than 2 mins and followed instructions at the end?

If you can, run the guiding assistant again and screenshot the results. Let it run so it measure backlash on both RA and DEC

[scarlet stump]

Yes j have done all of them

[low mural]

Also check cables are not tight or snagging or there are no nuts or knobs preventing the az-gti from turning

[low mural]

Major issue there. Polar alignment is waaaay out!

[scarlet stump]

So is this the problem?

[low mural]

Almost certainly

Send us your PA results when you next polar align

[scarlet stump]

Ok

What should it be?

[low mural]

And just checking but have you got the tripod and mount positioned correctly at home position? Pointing north?

[scarlet stump]

Yes

[low mural]

As close to 0 as possible. When I run the assistant. I usually get between 0-2 arc mins

[scarlet stump]

I got 0:03:00

[low mural]

Yeah you need better than that

It needs to at the very least be below 0:01:00 but ideally you want 0:00:00 (not always possible)

Run nina three point polar alignment 3-4 times to get a more accurate result

[scarlet stump]

Ok, i have another question

[low mural]

I usually run it once to get it below 0:01:00 then run again to get 0:00:10 and then run again to get close to 0

With the az-gti, the best i could get was around 0:00:10

P.s i love how we are back on the original posts main topic.. polar alignment Thanks to this thread @rugged jackal now smashes PA!!

[scarlet stump]

I use apt to control my camera
It says put the camera in bulb mode
After i adjust the setting and press shoot nothing happens
Whereas with nina i have no problem

[low mural]

Honestly, stick with nina

I would if I could but my guidecam is not supported so i use apt. I don't have any problems with using my ccd cam but i used to have problems with a dslr and apt.

[low mural]

I think the camera needs to be in bulb mode too though?

[scarlet stump]

Yes, i put it in bulb but i get nothing

[low mural]

Yeah, stick with nina! Haha

[scarlet stump]

Ok, thanks
I will let you know how everything turns out

[low mural]

Great! Looking forward to it!

Also bear this in mind too. The star you were using at the time had a SNR or 8. You want a brighter star to get more reliable results.

You will find it here. If i can, i try to pick one that is around 100. But that isn't always possible.

[scarlet stump]

Oo ok, i ll try that

[low mural]

Also make sure your star has a sharp peak. If it is flat, it is likely bloated and will produce poor guiding results

[mental grotto]

Rms should be half

Or ur pixels are gonna be smeared a lot

[low mural]

Although it is ideal to have RMS half your pixel resolution. It's not 100% necessary.

Here are 2 of my images.
My pixel resolution is around 2" per pixel.

1st image was taken with total RMS of 1.50"
2nd image was taken with a total RMS of 2.50"/3.50"

1st one is less than but more than half, the 2nd one is more than equal to.

If you are over sampled, then yes, it is more important. But in my case I am slightly undersampled and in @scarlet stump case, he is neither over or under sampled.

[rugged jackal]

apologies @modest nebula but https://astro.wheep.co.uk/howto/postprocess/ seems to be broken?

[modest nebula]

Also, make sure it's perfectly level, or it will go out of alignment when it rotates

[modest nebula]

https://astro.wheep.co.uk/tutorials/image-processing/postprocess/ - I reoganized the site

[rugged jackal]

Thanks @modest nebula - this is so useful!

[rugged jackal]

😆 Thanks to everyone - seriously when I started I could not get my head around polar alignment - I kept asking how does the mount know? 🤪 There is so much in this thread. Much more than just TPPA. Incredible journey.

[random night]

You don't need it to level at all, once it's allinged it's allinged no matter what. A level start just makes the allignment process a easier?

[low mural]

I think @modest nebula is right here. A
Polar alignment wont be accurate if you are not level.

I am not precisely levelling my tripod as I am shooting on stones 😂 so when i do polar alignment, it's not 100% accurate. I get it down to at least 00:00:10 by performing 3-4 tppa's and when running the guiding assistant, I tend to be 00:02:00 out of alignment. But it's good enough for me and guidings seems to remain consistent.

Here in the UK we need to make some sacrifices in order to take advantage of the very rare clear skies. Looking at the forecast currently, there is not clear skies in sight. Just in time for new moon..

I need to get some small slabs to put on top of my stones, so I can be consistently level!

[rugged jackal]

My attempt at the veil nebula

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1N1kL1CKSa2JR4Pdqb2rlID5XEd8EBPka/view?usp=sharing

395 subs at 35s, 85% moon, I am still not getting my flats right.

[azure solar]

Polar aligning get's rid of the leveling imperfections

[rugged jackal]

The skies have been the biggest hinderance to getting decent images of the universe. Since we like space -and while we wait for the clouds to annoy other people, anyone interested in UAPs?

[low mural]

Fair enough!

[low mural]

Looks like you were working on a 32bit tif here @rugged jackal before exporting from Siril, you change to 16 bit tif. Otherwise this happens

Can't immediatly see any issues from the flats here. Feel free to send the unstretched data 🙂

You are getting pretty good data now @rugged jackal Now for the processing. might be worth using #1021002743080558642 #1021002578588352572 channels to get an idea of other peoples processing techiniques!

[rugged jackal]

ok I'll process again.

[rugged jackal]

It was ASTAP squealing that the pixels differ too much in the flats.

[low mural]

Was there any vignetting or dust motes?

[rugged jackal]

yes I had some vignetting but no dust motes.

[mental grotto]

try darkflats

or siril

never heard of anyone using astap for stacking

[rugged jackal]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1EHLp_XWGd7cfMPXF1bVpTIgrSui0UcBS/view?usp=sharing 16 bit tiff

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ffLuUy56NLD0fX52uFkfydJSbUBjhTVh/view?usp=sharing Stacked FITS file

[scarlet stump]

Can t get lower

[low mural]

Re run it again

If you are getting consistent results, then 00:00:16 should be ok

[scarlet stump]

Yeah, it is stable

[low mural]

Ok now open phd2 and run the guiding assistant and see what you get

[scarlet stump]

Ok, where should i point it?

[low mural]

Guiding assistant should not matter where but I would say at a star around 30-50 degrees above the horizon I would say

For calibration I think it needs to be 30 degrees or below

[scarlet stump]

Ok, i ll run it for about 5 min@low mural

[low mural]

Yeah this is nicer! I would say you have probably overstretched a bit, but good work!! I will have a process tonight 🙂

[modest nebula]

I'm actually jealous of how in focus and tight your stars are!

[rugged jackal]

Thanks buddy. The 72ED is daid to be a good scope.

[scarlet stump]

Polar alignment error hasn't improved a lot

Currently i am at 68,6

[modest nebula]

I'm half way through writing some astro software at the moment, and I went out this evening for a lovely Indian meal & a few beers, and now I really can't be bothered to finish it 😦

[scarlet stump]

Should i change anything?@low mural

I am at 1,53" total error

[low mural]

Sometimes its good to have a break!

[low mural]

Has it settled to 1.53 or is it climbing?

[scarlet stump]

It pretty much there

[low mural]

Not sure why your PA error is still so high. Is it 68 arc mins at the end of the result

What was the result of the guiding assist?

[scarlet stump]

Yes

[low mural]

I mean at the end of the day, if you are getting nice round stars in your subs, then proceed

[scarlet stump]

Ok

What should I do if it increases?@low mural

[low mural]

The. Check, if your stars are still round. At the end of the day, your subs will give you the overall picture

[scarlet stump]

Ok, i am going to take some pictures then ..!!

[modest nebula]

yeh you're right, I've made good progress today and I'm at a stage now where it's going to get heavy, so a few more beers and some Youtube. Off to watch cat videos

[low mural]

Good luck! How have you got clear skies, send some our way!

[low mural]

Enjoy man!

[scarlet stump]

I am from Greece
We have clear skies almost every day 😂@low mural

[modest nebula]

gosh, ban him!! 😮

[scarlet stump]

I guess, i am lucky!

[modest nebula]

gosh, I've had too much food and drink to care about coding tonight but I still want to progress, so I asked ChatGPT to code it for me and it looks like the solution it's come up with is good. I'll implement tomorrow

[low mural]

Great work with the data again @rugged jackal You have certainly got the hang of it!!

[rugged jackal]

Thanks, wow your processing is very good, I cannot believe this is the same data! I'd love to see/read how you processed this.

[rugged jackal]

you are so lucky; If only we can have clear skies every night or at least on Fridays & Saturdays.🙏 😆

[scarlet stump]

Well , i have a problem
I have a canon eos 2000d
And i use nina to capture

the saved images are dark without any information showing
and when i stack them in dss the final photo comes out without rgb( in grey scale)
What should I do?

Ps i can now take up to 1min subs!!
@low mural

[low mural]

Individual subs are likely to be dark until they are stacked and stretched.
In regard to the grey scale, it is probably a setting in nina which is spitting your subs out in greyscale. I dont have much experience with nina and dslrs but I will take a look in the nina settings a bit later.

Nina have their own discord, they can help you if you need immediate help!

Awesome that you can get 1 min subs now! Is that with 2.5 total RMSm

[scarlet stump]

Ok, i ll check it out
Yes, i also tried to balance it a bit better and that helped a lot@low mural

[modest nebula]

what happens if you open the output from DSS in Siril?

[scarlet stump]

You can still edit the picture

[azure solar]

to see if there's any data in the stacked file just open it in siril and on the bottom where it says linear, change it to autostretch

[scarlet stump]

I ve done that but it doesn't have colour @azure solar

[azure solar]

can you try to upload the image?

[scarlet stump]

It comes out like that when stretched
It doesn't have calibration frames

[azure solar]

uh that's really weird

try to covert it in siril and remember to tick debayer

[scarlet stump]

In dss how do i debayer it?@azure solar

[azure solar]

in theory it should be done automatically when stacking

[scarlet stump]

The stacked image came out without colour

[azure solar]

can you upload that file? I want to see if I can do something with it

[scarlet stump]

Unfortunately not, my phone doesn't recognise it

[azure solar]

I use wetransfer to upload stacked images usually, not the direct upload

[low mural]

Yeah something off. Upload the stacked images to either we transfer like @azure solar said or google drive. We will take a look 👍

[scarlet stump]

I think i got it , i asked in nina s discord
I will test it tonight and see what happens

[low mural]

Nice! They are a helpful bunch in there tbh!

[rugged jackal]

If only we could say the same - ie test tonight, the best we can say is , I'll test as soon as we have a 2 hour window of clear skies sometimes this year!😆

[scarlet stump]

Currently i am at an astroparty 😂@rugged jackal

[rugged jackal]

Astronomy compels the soul to look upwards and leads us from this world to another. Enjoy!

[low mural]

Maybe Sunday night apparently for me. Lets see.... ☁️

[scarlet stump]

104*40 sec exposure

[low mural]

This is nice! Well done 👍 stars a little blown out which is preventing you from seeing the detail of the pillars. But still a good result! Is your 2000d a stock camera or astro modded? Also did you do starnet to remove the stars during processing?

[scarlet stump]

My 2000d isn't astro modded
Yes , i removed the stars and also
used an achromat to capture it
Thanks a lot!
@low mural

[rugged jackal]

Nice! well done, only 104 frames at 40 seconds and you get this!!!

[low mural]

Nice, yeah the achromat would probably bloat the stars as not all colour wavelength are at the same focal point. That being said, it is still a great image. Got a decent amount of ha for an unmodded cam.

I bet M16 is about 30 degrees in the sky for you? It's only about 19 degrees here in the UK and a pain to capture when there are overhead cables, rooftops and trees in the way

[scarlet stump]

Yeah, it's a nice target this time around here
Tonight, i think i am going for the veil@low mural

[low mural]

Rubbing it in with the clear skies again 😂 I started my Veil image 7 days ago but cannot continue yet 🌧️🌧️

[scarlet stump]

Haha , let's hope everything goes according to plan 😂@low mural

[low mural]

Haven't you got some seriously hot weather down there at the moment? Your camera sensor must be 🥵🔥

[scarlet stump]

Yes, it s really hot
though we are at a mountain and at night the temperature is quite good @low mural

[rugged jackal]

Sounds good, send photos so we can all enjoy the skies and weather vicariously. Our skies are - well blighted with cold unrelenting clouds.

[low mural]

Miraculously I am imaging tonight. Testing the gain on my camera whilst capturing more veil data

[modest nebula]

no imaging for me tonight but I am tweaking my driver that I'm writing. It's quite usable now

[low mural]

Is this for the focuser?

[modest nebula]

no that's another project 🙂

https://github.com/IanCassTwo/rpicam-ascom-alpaca

the focuser is coming on well. need another few components though

[low mural]

You making your own camera now? 😮

[modest nebula]

no. I have a few raspberry pi's laying around with HQ cameras. I used to use them with Kstars/Ekos and they were a bit pants tbh, mostly because the software sucked. So I thought I'd write a driver for them so they worked with NINA

and now they do, and they're working quite well

I figure it would give me another option. These have smaller pixels and a smaller fov

[low mural]

What are you going to use them for?

You answered it haha

[modest nebula]

I think they'l reach further for smaller targets

[low mural]

That's I would love to get into coding!

[low mural]

Pretty cool!

Could I technically write a driver for my Atik GP to work in NINA? Haha

[modest nebula]

yes, if you had the specifications for it or an Atik SDK

I'm surprised there isn't already an ASCOM driver for it though

[low mural]

There is and it doesn't work with NINA.
Basically if I have phd2 open and NINA open, I can't connect the camera to phd2 because it thinks NINA is using it when it isn't

[modest nebula]

most odd 😮

[low mural]

But it works with apt and phd2 so I can only assume it doesn't work with NINA. I contacted Atik but they are not interested because it's an old camera haha

When I contacted NINA, they got really defensive. Which is fair enough if it isn't their fault haha

[modest nebula]

well this driver I wrote is using Alpaca. It lets me run a driver on a Raspberry Pi and ASCOM running on my PC will automatically locate it on my network & start talking to it. It will appear like it;s connected direct to my PC

[low mural]

That's cool, you have so many little projects going! Making good use of cloudy nights!

[modest nebula]

yeh, I have plenty of opportunity

I'd also like to try to set up my old Celestron reflector too, but clear sky is too rare to waste 😦

[low mural]

Yup, and the UK seems to be stuck in this low pressure system atm.

I have got about 40 mind of data tonight though, so far. I'm using different gain settings so I am not sure how it will play out. I also rushed my focus and polar alignment but seems to be OK.

[low mural]

Another hours data added. So happy with this l enhance!

[mental grotto]

gad damn

looks great

[modest nebula]

nice work!

[low mural]

Thanks guys, much less noise at the higher gain. Will properly process it later today and upload into the comp

[rugged jackal]

Looks great, well done.

[modest nebula]

Higher gain will sacrifice some FWC. Did you notice it affecting stars at all?

[low mural]

I ran a sensor analysis, also spoke to the guys in "ask a mega nerd".(patreon channel) some had experience with the imx178 sensor and used to do 300s subs at 350 gain.

If the camera had unity gain, I would say it would be about 400, but I did not want to risk too much FWC reduction.

The stars weren't clipped but still in good shape. I think 180s is probably optimal.

Here is my sensor analysis result in sharp cap.

[modest nebula]

I did mine a while back too https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xALjaTmV4yTsKMDVzlnbRZEnKMkYr3x5OJ77IoIPNuk/edit?usp=sharing

[low mural]

What gain do you image at?

[modest nebula]

100, unless it's an especially bright target then I'll try 0

[low mural]

Which one do you guys prefer?

[rugged jackal]

I prefer image 1 - brighter and more detail.

[low mural]

Hmm yeah I think I went I bittoo dark the 2nd time round. 3rd time lucky!

[modest nebula]

colours better in 1st one but the contrast not quite there. colours look weird in 2nd and a bit dark, also noise reduction artifacts inbackground?

[low mural]

Yeah I think the artifacts are from pushing the black point too far. But then again, there is only so much noise reduction you can do with freeware. Discords compression probably isn't helping either 😂

[low mural]

Settling for this I think

[mental grotto]

yuo can try destaruting the star layer

maybe boosting the oii

[low mural]

Nah I'm happy with this one

[scarlet stump]

The first one looks great!@low mural

[modest nebula]

Looks great!

[rugged jackal]

looks great buddy, love the colour and detail - better than my veil image (by about 1000x)

[scarlet stump]

I am thinking of buying a new eqm 35 pro or a used heq5 pro .what do you guys think?

[azure solar]

heq5 Imo

[scarlet stump]

Does it matter that it is used?

[azure solar]

if it's well kept it's fine

astro stuff is usually cared for more than other stuff so it shouldn't be an issue to go used

[lament lion]

Should be fine, just ask to have them turn it on so you can see it move and if it does your good to go, and like fenice said Astro stuff is safer to get used than anything else since people take care of their stuff in this hobby

[scarlet stump]

Ok, i will check then..

[scarlet stump]

How do i connect it though to nina?@azure solar

[low mural]

Yeah HEQ5 if you can afford. I went for a secondhand EQM35 because I don't plan on loading my mount too heavy and cannot afford a HEQ5 haha.

With recent heq5's you would connect using a USB cable and ascom (eqmod) (or other servers. Ascom is most popular) if you get an old HEQ5 then you may need to get an eq mod cable. My EQM35 has USB.

[scarlet stump]

Can i make my own eq mod cable?

I don't think it has usb

[mental grotto]

Make sure to ask for guiding logs and ask if there are any issues

[rugged jackal]

Hi guys, sorry if this has been answered but when doing a TPPA do you have the mount tracking or stop tracking ?

[modest nebula]

tracking, although NINA will sort that out for you

[rugged jackal]

thanks, right, just went out last night and it came to me that I did not know this. sadly it was short period of clear skies, North, East, West all covered in clouds within an hour and south was clear but too many trees!

Weekend looks to be wall to wall cloudy stuff.

[modest nebula]

yeh 😦

more time for projects though

just waiting for a few connectors then I can power it up \o/

[azure solar]

what's that? 👀

[modest nebula]

the clue is in the name at the bottom left of the circuit board 😄

it's a control board for a DIY EAF

[azure solar]

pardon my ignorance, isn't it quite large? the onstep eaf I have is very compact in comparison

[modest nebula]

this is 5cm x 6.5cm so it's not large

obviously it will go in a box at some point 🙂

[azure solar]

ah that's not too bad, looked bigger in photo (pun not intended)

[modest nebula]

I've probably got enough parts to mostly make a few more, so I might do that at some point and put them on 99p auction on ebay

[lament lion]

@rugged jackal Tracking, but whenever I would start doing the polar alignment the synscan app would stop tracking having it fail polar alignment but stopped having that problem when I switched over to the gs server

[modest nebula]

just watching this talk by Dr Robin Glover (author of Sharpcap) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RH93UvP358

[modest nebula]

I think the takeaway from that is that in my bortle area, I need 30sec subs. Any greater than that and I'm not really benefitting from reduced noise. However, narrowband needs 10x that length.

[modest nebula]

just flashed the firmware on the focuser, wired up power & stepper motor, started the Windows control software and focused in/out. Works perfectly so far \o/

now got to do some mathmatics to work out in/out limits so I don't end up destroying something

[azure solar]

is the stepper a normal one or is it geared? sonac built a focuser too but without gearing it wasn't working properly

[modest nebula]

the stepper motor itself isn't geared but it's driving a belt with pretty high gearing. The lens is also pretty light touch. I doubt I'll have much issues

hrmm low gearing even 😄

[azure solar]

That's a very combersome focuser

But for the evoguide I don't think you can do a lot more

[modest nebula]

I also worked out how to reduce the backlash which should make it easier to autofocus

[mental grotto]

I could make a field rotator holy

[modest nebula]

got it on the scope today and it's focusing great manually (by jogging it in and out). Got to try to simulate some sky to see if NINA will auto focus though

[modest nebula]

my autofocuser works on real stars \o/

[azure solar]

nice

[modest nebula]

now I can be even more lazy

[azure solar]

an eaf is a game changer, makes setup even easier

[mental grotto]

My autofocus has been broken for days

[modest nebula]

ok everyting perfect tonight, guiding at 0.57", focus is pinsharp, everything good. I bet clouds roll in now

[low mural]

Probably @modest nebula

However, well done on the focuser man. That's awesome!

[low mural]

What is everyones next target? I am thinking IC 1396. Not 100% yet though

[azure solar]

wanted to do western veil nebula but there's a think layer of humidity over here that doesn't let me shoot anything

it's frustrating beacuse it's clear but I can't shoot

[low mural]

The skies are teasing you. The UK is being battered with low pressure at the moment which is really frustrating haha. W Veil is tricky no? 52 Cygni is pretty bright!

I am currently having another go with my E Veil data. Was not 100% happy with my result haha

processing*

[azure solar]

nah that star isn't really an issue, here's an autostretch of some nights ago when I tried ignoring the haze

Idk if it's worth trying to put more time on it in these conditions

[low mural]

Oh yeah that is not as bad as I thought haha. Does Starnet like it though? haha

Yeah I guess. if it was me, I would take some subs and then check the average FWHM from any previous nights data? Or maybe shorter exposures?

[azure solar]

I didn't even get to that point, I did calibration and a stretch and it was so bad I just left it sitting there in his folder

[azure solar]

shorter subs probably aren't a good idea with the l-enhance, I don't think snr would be good enough

[low mural]

Oh I was not aware you were using L-enhance. Yeah maybe not then.

[modest nebula]

tonights frustrating here. I can see enough stars to browse around & play with my new focuser, but it's so hazy I can't get any decent imaging