Rokinon/Samyang 135mm discussion

[patent dove]

gotcha, enjoy the new scope!

did that price include the field flattener?

[civic mirage]

We gotta Z61 owners thread if you wanna join - #1075625173585252362

[winter herald]

thankyou 🙂

[winter herald]

it didn’t no , i have to buy it separately but it’s not biggie , i can do a few days work

[solid raptor]

About step down rings: do they introduce strong vignetting on this lens?

[patent dove]

They do if stepped down a lot but it can be corrected with flats

[short charm]

I use them cause I hate the roki blades on stars, but also my specific copy seems to benefit from a stepdown ring cause my CA is decreased so much I'm shooting at f2.3

[patent dove]

Is that 58mm aperture then?

[short charm]

58mm actually

[solid raptor]

Ah I see

This was probably asked before and sorry in advance but what's the difference between the good ol' roki and the Samyang 135mm T2.2 VDSLR ED UMC

[chilly ingot]

Thats a cine lens for film cams

gear rings on and aperture ring has no clicks

[solid raptor]

That shouldnt make it unfit for photography sould it?

[violet pulsar]

I use it and the body is the same size and shape so it still works with any ring systems (eg astrodynium) the only differences is the focus and aperture rings for example instead of a rubber grip there are teeth for a follow focus and the declicked aperture wheel but there are clear markings so it works perfectly for me

[solid raptor]

How is your lenses' star performance?

[violet pulsar]

Wide open at t2.2 the stars aren't perfect (for me QC is hit and miss) but 99% of the time i shoot at t2.8 and stars are sharp and round

The only reason i go the cine version is that I bought it from a shop and because it is quite specialty they ordered it in for me and after paying for it and everything they said it was discontinued which was just a lie and they instead gave me the cine version

[solid raptor]

Oof xD

[solid raptor]

That sounds like the regular roki

[violet pulsar]

Well im just assuming they are the same

and that I was just lucky to get a good copy

since they are optically the same

[solid raptor]

Nice to know, thanks

Do you happen to have a abberations inspection lying around?

[violet pulsar]

No sorry

never used it to be honest

[civic mirage]

You guys see the new Uranus C pro

Aside from many upgrades and proper tec cooling, its just straight eye candy.

Carbon fiber with black and red accents.

👌

I know a lot of you guys got the 585 / Roki setup

This would look so sick with a roki

[worthy grove]

It does look awesome and seems good value too!

[hazy copper]

Almost tempted to “downgrade” from my 533, such an ugly camera.

[worthy grove]

Is it a downgrade? I mean aside from the bit depth

[hazy copper]

Yeah it is. Lower bit depth and smaller sensor. But not in sexiness.

[civic mirage]

The sensor is only smaller in height, so technically no light loss, but for mosaics it obviously would require more panels.

[short charm]

You know they also make the 533 version that also looks sexy AF?

[chilly ingot]

Even lower noise and its 14bit

585 has that juicy IR for filters like idas gnb

[solid raptor]

@hazy copper Does the Uranus C come with a uvir cut?

[uneven compass]

The normal 533 pro looks very sexy imo

Paired with the roki and a guide scope at least

Just gotta get the proportions right

Oh yeah I also got a 533

It is very epic

Could see a ton of detail on the veil neb in a single sub using the l enhance

[hazy copper]

No

[solid raptor]

I think I'll get the Touptek IMX 585 then

[hazy copper]

You don’t want a permanent uvir cut though. What if you do ir imaging

Planetary or deep space

Idas gnb

Or be cool and get the p1 cooled 585

[chilly ingot]

could be the next goated cam

[gleaming flare]

is p1 making an actual cooled 585

[hazy copper]

Figure 1:

@gleaming flare

[gleaming flare]

oooo

[gleaming flare]

thanks didnt see it

[hazy copper]

I like it

[solid raptor]

Why should the uvir be harmful though? I only need the visible spectrum and the filter goes from 400-700

(I really don't think I'll ever do IR)

[hazy copper]

Why buy a camera that limits you? If you have any chance of doing planetary IR is nice to have. You can get a nice boost in detail on planets or the moon with ir.

And the idas gnb is great. Shoot galaxies in light pollution.

[uneven compass]

I'm not sure how much this is, but I'd highly consider looking for a used 533

You can usually get them for under 700 (I got one for 650 with adapters, filters, shipping, etc) and it's overall a slightly better camera then the 585

That's especially true if you prefer larger sensors

[worthy grove]

Surely you will do dual NB though at some point? You ideally wouldn't want a uv/ir as well in front of that? Just seems odd to want an integrated one when you can optionally add your own pretty cheaply

[worthy grove]

I think a used 533 and a new uranus-c pro will be around the same price?

[solid raptor]

I do, can't I put that in front of the uvir?

[solid raptor]

What?😂 Not in Germany I suppose

[worthy grove]

You can but the IR will cut some of of the Ha wavelengths which you don't want

[worthy grove]

Basically for broadband targets I use my uv/ir filter and for nebula (Ha rich targets) I use my dual narrowband filter, I woulnt ever combine them, If you but integrated you are forced to and you are loosing some of that precious Ha

[worthy grove]

https://player-one-astronomy.com/product/uranus-c-pro-usb3-0-color-camera-imx585/
$549 new.. I think thats probably around the price of a used 533? @hazy copper got one recently so he would know

[solid raptor]

I was gonna get the old model for 400

And the Touptek 585 is 370

[solid raptor]

Fair point..

The cheapest 533 sensor I could find is 750

Perhaps if I wait long enough I'll find one

[worthy grove]

Yeah fair enough, I havent looked into second hand 533s much

Touptek are always good value, just make sure you get it from somewhere that isn't a pain with returns, but $549 for a new uranus-c cooled is amazing i think

[solid raptor]

But are you that dissatisfied with your Uranus?

[solid raptor]

The Touptek is also fan cooled

[worthy grove]

No, its brilliant, but not cooled, If I could buy now id get the pro. Im not going to nbow as I have the standard though

[solid raptor]

Ha is at about 656, no?

And if the filter has a cutoff at 700nm, how do they interfere?

[solid raptor]

How about the Saturn C, it has the same sensor and is a tad cheaper

[patent dove]

at that price I'd save up another 250 for a 571 sensor touptek

[solid raptor]

Fair, looking at the 20% Vat+ extra fees, that idea kinda resolved itself

[patent dove]

Has anyone imaged M16? How visible are the pillars at this focal length?

obviously pretty small

[solid raptor]

If this is to be trusted, a mini sensor might deliver interesting results https://www.astrobin.com/412981/?q=m16 samyang 135

[patent dove]

Interesting, can probably get some decent detail with drizzling then

[solid raptor]

A challenge worthy of your attention!

[patent dove]

can get the omega nebula and some milky way in there too

[solid raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/dew-it-galactic-republic-palpatine-gif-21847982

[tired cypress]

If it’s a good uv/ir filter it shouldn’t, but there’s a lot of reasons for not wanting to double up

[solid raptor]

Something to do that there's more glass in the imaging train?

[hazy copper]

Did it the other night. This is a 5 min sub. With 533mc

[worthy grove]

nice . On the sa gti?

[hazy copper]

Yep

[worthy grove]

solid

[hazy copper]

Also got these two. I am yet to learn narrowband editing or try adding RGB data

[worthy grove]

I've just been trying that myself. I found Bill Blanshan videos to be great for this. Also his pixelmatch scripts make it a breeze if you use PI

[hazy copper]

I’ll check them out cheers

[worthy grove]

Wow these are incedible... single subs?

[hazy copper]

I also got a few hours of narrowband on lagoon. Here’s a sub. I have a few hours of RGB data with my Uranus C. Might be able to combine them.

[hazy copper]

24m for LMC and 4 hours for prawn

[worthy grove]

Wow, I thing 24 min under your skies is the equivalent of 12hrs under mine 😦 Ill also concede that maybe the 533 is better than the uranus-c. The noise control there is great

[hazy copper]

Honestly I haven’t been blown away by the 533

I don’t like the square framing at all, although it’s somewhat useful for framing.

Artistically I hate it

The noise level is meh. Yet to do a side by side comparison but I suspect it’s pretty similar.

The deeper wells are nice though.

If I had paid full price for the 533 I might have regretted it. The 533 seems a bit overrated.

I got it used though. So half price.

[worthy grove]

Yeah fair enough, i still love the 585 tbh and am unlikely to upgrade any time soon

[hazy copper]

Fair enough. It’s perfectly capable for everything most people want

With the 135mm the sensor size isn’t an issue. It’s like 250mm equivalent framing so not bad at all. The resolution is good too

[worthy grove]

well i have a new scope now to try with it (the tak fs60-cb) which should be great for those small objects like galaxies, may need to give my az-gti a service first though

I dont think I will be ditching the 135 though. There is something about the widefield shots I love

[hazy copper]

So many targets simply aren’t possible with anything longer lol

[worthy grove]

FYI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT7CPIzsyY0

[patent dove]

lookin good, this with the ALP-T?

[hazy copper]

Yup

[patent dove]

f/2.2 vs f/3.5

Is the higher SNR worth the decrease in sharpness?

[hazy copper]

Depends how much clear sky you have. Sometimes I just shoot wide open. Although my copy is very good. If you have the time go for the F3.5 and get a few times the data

[patent dove]

recently very little clear sky, I might compromise with f2.8 and see how that looks

[hazy copper]

Good idea. F2 vs F2.8 is double the light. So half the time needed to get an image.

I normally use F2.8. Unless I’m shooting something faint.

[solid raptor]

So I entered the Samyang and the 585 into Stellarium and the effective focal lenght looks something like 350,can that be?

[uneven compass]

How much time is this?

[hazy copper]

Pretty much that framing yes

[solid raptor]

First is with configuration, second is ff

No sorry second is 1,6 cropfactor

[hazy copper]

Here’s my FF dslr vs the Uranus C. 10 hours with the dslr and 8 hours with the Uranus.

[solid raptor]

uncropped?

[hazy copper]

The Uranus is technically 4 hours because I shot at F2.8

[hazy copper]

Pretty much yeah. Uranus had the left and right edges cropped slightly

[solid raptor]

Is there any difference between the uranus c with its low (8 mp I believe?) resolution and a lets say 24mp apsc cropped to that 8mp resolution?

[hazy copper]

The smaller pixels will give a resolution boost depending on your optics

I found I got a significant one. Check the images above

It will be roughly 120-140% sharper with the Uranus.

[patent dove]

each is around 4 hours

[solid raptor]

I see

If I'm not wrong it'll also have a Cropfaktor of about 3,37

That would also require some mighty tracking accuracy wouldn't it

[chilly ingot]

4.45" per pixel. naaah

if you put the 585 on lets say a 360mm FL scope to sample around 1.6"/pixel the small tracker might wobble too much and subs are ruined

[hazy copper]

6 1/2 hours on dragons of ara and 4 hours ish on SMC.

Running the same sequence tonight

Then getting broadband after moon leaves

[chilly ingot]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1118082114244591667/1124261591119044718/IMG_20230630_160327.jpg https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1118082114244591667/1124261591785943131/IMG_20230630_154251.jpg

imagine this with a compact lens setup

[short charm]

What mount is that?

[chilly ingot]

the new UMi mini/lite

[short charm]

Oooooo

Hmmmm, I may think on that as an upgrade then

[hazy copper]

looks nice and compact compared to a typical mount

easy to travel with and not breakable

[chilly ingot]

good shape to stuff in a bag. no counterweights to even think about

[short charm]

Yup, hope guiding is good though

[chilly ingot]

its similar / same as the bigger one or am5 etc

[short charm]

It uses a different Dec motor

[chilly ingot]

just does not have the stiffness of the big units when there is a big windsail of a scope on

[short charm]

So no newts?

[chilly ingot]

well ye. if the weight is ok

i did ask them since the payload capacity and performance are almost same on paper

its smaller and half the weight

the cost is really stability with big scopes with wind gusts and such. more likely to throw a sub with the small one if there is a newt on

[worthy grove]

Where can these be purchased? And what are the specs?

[chilly ingot]

ill send you a invite so you can chat with the users and the people making them

[patent dove]

I asked Meow in the meow discord and he said it can handle an 8” newt

13kg capacity without counterweight, 20kg with counterweight

[short charm]

Yeah I have a 6", so would be even easier

[civic mirage]

This looks dope, any price?

[chilly ingot]

a cat for reference

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1118082114244591667/1124393451966972014/IMG_20230630_180520.jpg?width=453&height=603

[chilly ingot]

dont actually know. there was a special price for first 10 units but they are gone. 25 sold out of 30 units and they are going to make more atm. you should hop into theyr discord to ask the harder hitting questions

[civic mirage]

Ight

[patent dove]

$1360 including shipping

[civic mirage]

Oh, dam.

One of the cheaper harmonics

Considering the am3 is 1700/1800

[patent dove]

and bigger payload capacity than AM3

Im tempted…

[chilly ingot]

ye that offer had also paypal fee and stuff covered

dunno what he meant by tax too. does not really understand how importing works to some eu countries

so ye. i need to definately pay VAT. got the original bigger mount tho, never need to really upgrade

the eq base is no joke

[civic mirage]

I thought it was a reused star adventurer eq base for a min lol

Wait

Are you referring to the base in the photo above, the red one?

Or one they offer?

[chilly ingot]

this one

Weigh 1.2kg, payload capacity 30-40kg, declination -3° to 67°. CNC machined

[civic mirage]

Oh that's delicious

Machined aluminum is 👌

[chilly ingot]

bit puzzled about how is it sold now and in the future. like what is included

since i think they are making it with a integrated wedge soon i hear

so the one that has the option to use that one (good for transport) might not be included but its unbeatable priced for an accessory

[short charm]

I will probably go for a built in wedge

[winter herald]

anyone here have the new uranus c pro?

heard that people here have it

[civic mirage]

Uranus C more likely, I know Lux has the pro

Same sensor obviously so results can be compared as far as final images.

[hazy copper]

I think he has the ares

[civic mirage]

Now that you mention that makes more sense

[uneven compass]

Yeah he has the ares

[uneven compass]

Lots of people have the normal uranus c... the only real difference that I know of is the cooling, but I don't know a ton about it.

[winter herald]

yeah that’s fine , my uranus c pro is meant to be here tomorrow

[solid raptor]

Watcha say about this copy?

f2

[chilly ingot]

same problem as my lens, but just half less

[solid raptor]

The tilt?

[chilly ingot]

why is the pic portrait

[solid raptor]

I dont quite know

@chilly ingotCan you send one of your samples?

[chilly ingot]

this is with imx533

[solid raptor]

Hmm yeah looks a tad bit worse

I was hoping with the smaller sensor it wouldn't be as evident

[chilly ingot]

With bigger pixels it hides it

With smaller ones. Takes no prisoners

hard to see with my canon 5d2 subs but the same stuff is there

[solid raptor]

Yeah that thing's got huge pixels

[patent dove]

maybe shooting the squid during the full moon wasnt the best idea

[solid raptor]

How much integration time is this?

[patent dove]

9hrs

probably will shoot for 20

[solid raptor]

What filter do you use for that?

[patent dove]

alp-t

[solid raptor]

Are the halos manageable?

[patent dove]

some dont have bad halos, mine has semi-bad ones, I got a highspeed ALP-T that had terrible haloes that I sent back

[chilly ingot]

thats 9hrs?

[patent dove]

yup

[chilly ingot]

or is it just cropped in alot

[patent dove]

not cropped at all

maybe a little bit since its a screenshot

[chilly ingot]

could be worse noise from the moon

i had a really bad case once. looked like lizard scale pattern 😄

i did too long subs at m45, histogram way too exposed and the moon was up

[patent dove]

I cant wait until winter objects come up

havent done anything with my roki on winter objects

[chilly ingot]

yeah, usually people are fedup with the easy winter targets

but now i want em back 😄

[patent dove]

also doesnt help that ill probably get like 3 clear nights in winter lol

[chilly ingot]

yeah. there are sometimes a moment of calm to image once or twice

then 1-2 days next month

when fall changed over to winter. there was decently clear nights. same with winter to spring

but not mid season nono

[patent dove]

yep thats normally how it goes lol

and also for me in the eastern US, smoke has ruined some clear nights

[solid raptor]

When considering possible dnb filters for this lens, I figured it would be the best to just use a 12nm filter to avoid band shift on this fast lens. Are there any easier methods with comparable price?

[patent dove]

IDAS NBZ

I use my ALP-T stopped down to 3.5 with stepdown rings

could use NBZ at f/2

[solid raptor]

https://tenor.com/view/poor-poor-dude-poor-dudes-no-money-broken-gif-26126122

Perhaps I'll stumble over a used one

Until then, broadband it is

[patent dove]

could get a 1.25" L enhance too

cheaper

[solid raptor]

Does the same apply to usual uvir cut filters?

[patent dove]

bandpass shift?

[solid raptor]

Well probably not, dumb question

But is there anything I have to watch out for or can I just get the cheapest one?

[solid raptor]

And the bandpass shift is negligible with the 12nm?

[patent dove]

probably doesnt matter too much but some are better than others, ZWO one is cheap and works fine

[solid raptor]

I'll probably stick to svbony, if there aren't any negative reviews on it

[chilly ingot]

not sure but

heard some ur/ir cut filters can also do some halos

i got a optolong one and its fine

one of my cams has uv/ir cut window. praying to jesus it wont halo. probably wont since the replacement part is priced same as the more expensive uv/ir cut filters

[civic mirage]

It's the opposite in eastern us, get more clear nights in winter than summer. We have really lame ass winter snows/storms.

[solid raptor]

Thanks I'll keep an eye put for that

[gleaming flare]

what do you mean more clear nights in the winter lol

as soon as november hit it was the cloud apocalypse

and it didnt start to clear up until may

[civic mirage]

Ayo, I usually get a couple nights a week during the winter, rn I haven't had a clear night in like 3 weeks

4 weeks tbh

[gleaming flare]

i didnt get any clear nights in the winter barely

ive had plenty of "clear" nights this summer, but smoke ruins them so i dont image

at the veryy least ive had 1 clear night per week

[civic mirage]

Yii smoke didn't help, where in the east are you?

[patent dove]

yeah same, barely any clear nights in winter in west PA

[chilly ingot]

only noticeable clear bits are when seasons change

for me

had few clear nights at xmas 2022

[uneven compass]

Can confirm

Though it honestly depends on the year. Last year was clear a lot of the time, this summer so far has been very shaky

[civic mirage]

true

tbh it may not be more, but def more often

[uneven compass]

Are you southeast?

[civic mirage]

more so yii, NC

[uneven compass]

Oh sweet! I'm in sc

Staying in NC atm though lmao

[civic mirage]

noice, I feel like were in a sweet spot in the US. We have almost zero lethal earthquakes/torados/fires, and were not near the coast to be in the path of sunamis or high water levels in general.

also weather in general is nothing extreme

[gleaming flare]

great lakes, michigan

[civic mirage]

oh yea that explains everything

my dad went there for college

He said the snows were several feet on average

[uneven compass]

Yeah weather wise it's pretty nice

Just very hot and humid sometimes.

The people and culture and stuff... bit of a different story

[civic mirage]

Yes

[solid raptor]

So uhh

I found someone that sells the nbz for a rather reasonable price

But only with this system that's design for RASA telescopes xD

https://www.astroshop.de/filterraeder-halterungen/idas-nbz-di-filter-set-rasa-8/p,70812

Is there any way it would work on a samyang and astro cam as some sort of filter drawer? xD

[chilly ingot]

would need to research more. but it looks like its a 2" filter in a specialised slider

you can get blank 2" filter cells and just put the glass in there

[solid raptor]

Hmm yeah that'd prolly work, just need to convince him to just sell me the glass 😄

[chilly ingot]

its abit bothering me i cant find information how big the glass is

[solid raptor]

He said 49mm but I think he means 48

I've never heard of a 49mm filter

[chilly ingot]

You should check the nebula photos videos where he tests different filters. Think the opens them up to measure everything. Including the diameter of the glass

So you get and idea how big a 2” filter glass is inside the housing

Sorry i gave you this idea on a hunch. I dont have concrete evidence everything will fit

[chilly ingot]

They sell some 49mm unmounted filters

[chilly ingot]

@solid raptor abort. the 2" filter glass in the housing is around 46mm diameter

[solid raptor]

You think the gentleman gave me false information?

I already asked him about it again

[chilly ingot]

well i watched a video where Nico took some glass out of the housings and measured em

a 49mm unmounted filters do exists and idas makes them.

the sizes were like 45.94mm etc to dropin to a 2" housing

ur best bet is to find a filter on the correct size instead of trying to find a bargain to make due

adapting the filter drawer to a astro cam and getting thread adapers, bayonet mount and spacers for correct backfocus.

ur a the same price as a brand new filter

[solid raptor]

Well, if I got the zwo filter drawer, I`d be good to go and sould be in ok backfocus with the other accessories the camera comes with

Is it Nicos filter review you are talking about?

Ill have a look at it

[chilly ingot]

i mentioned it because he actually took apart filters and measured the glass diameter

so can compare the weird rasa silder if the glass would transplant over. but its too big

[solid raptor]

Can you link the video?

[chilly ingot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xorp4f05dhU

after 8minute mark he starts measuring

[solid raptor]

Hmmm we'll see tomorrow exactly how much it is

[chilly ingot]

waste of money if it cant be made to work

[solid raptor]

correct

[desert python]

Someone revive the roki forum

[patent dove]

roki

[civic mirage]

Carbon fibre dew shield gives you +10 masculine points

[chilly ingot]

i made mine from a plastic bottle with a heatgun oh yeah and some velour and electical tape

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/800149179615150090/1115696733989646356/image0.jpg?width=1217&height=936

[patent dove]

made it out of an old folder lol

[patent dove]

that the canon 200 f2.8?

[chilly ingot]

yea

[patent dove]

IMPOSTER

lol jk

thats a nice lens

[chilly ingot]

simple fit into the redcat ring. made some shims

[civic mirage]

Sharp as hell

I need some l glass

But I'd get a Roki before l glass.

[chilly ingot]

there is some "cheap" l glass i want but

i know they are not giga sharp

like the 300mm f4

[patent dove]

some company gotta start making f/2-2.8 lens designed for astro

[chilly ingot]

yeah

dreaming of a f2.8 or 3.2 redcat

then a accessory extender for it to like f4.5 or something

the dream

[patent dove]

we need a 400mm f/2.8 that isnt $12,000

[chilly ingot]

would probably costs absurd money like the Borg scopes

some of those super fast l glass is abit old

[patent dove]

I mean I guess theres RASA 8

[chilly ingot]

like the 400mm f4 is supposedly really really sharp. but id get a refractor over that

[patent dove]

yeah

or f/4 noot

[chilly ingot]

some of the insane fast glass is from the late 90's. probably some wicked CA with astro work.

who knows. way too expensive to even consider taking a risk

time for some astrobin

[patent dove]

for now I just got a quattro 150p for 25% off

f/3.45

[chilly ingot]

nice. i got one too

where did you buy it?

[patent dove]

used off astromart

[chilly ingot]

the msrp hovers around 589 - 599 for me. i got mine for 489 or something brand new

[patent dove]

nice

this ones in perfect condition, ive already flocked and painted reflective bits

[civic mirage]

Mono and narrowband filters revive old glass, worth a shot

[patent dove]

and i ordered a new spider, mirror mask, and back plate

[chilly ingot]

yeah thats fun to do

[chilly ingot]

is it the chinese one from aliexpress?

[civic mirage]

This was with a Nikkor Q 200mm f/4 from the 60s

[chilly ingot]

the cnc'd one

[patent dove]

yep lol

[civic mirage]

12nm Ha filter with my dslr

[chilly ingot]

honestly that looks a fine profuct

[patent dove]

we shall see

[chilly ingot]

i still need to dust off my scope

i lint rolled the velour like mad. and theres some dust on my mirror now

[patent dove]

nothing flats cant handle

[chilly ingot]

yeah i suck with flats though

[chilly ingot]

nice. i wonder i could get older FD glass that is any decent

[civic mirage]

Yii FD could be better possibly, it's hilarious cause that 200mm lens doesn't focus with my Canon or Nikon DSLRs using no filter or even my CLS, only focuses with my Ha filter. Comes into focus at the infinity mark... Exactly. Don't even have to check focus night to night.

[chilly ingot]

mm yeah already spotted a adapter for FD lenses to mount astrocams

[civic mirage]

Noiccee, I wanna slap that Uranus C pro on my 200mm

[chilly ingot]

300mm f.2.8 FD is 799

has filter slider for 48mm screw on filters wtf

these are beaten up though and riskyest things ever

[civic mirage]

Lol

200mm with IMX 585

[chilly ingot]

has fluorite

https://kamerastore.com/products/canon-300mm-f2-8-l-fdn-canon-fd-4

[civic mirage]

Thing is massive

[chilly ingot]

yeah its 2345grams

imagine getting that and it has bad aberrations or CA

then you are stuck with a obsolete lens

[civic mirage]

Nah I'm using that thing for wildlife till I die

[chilly ingot]

https://www.astropix.com/html/equipment/c300mm.html
yeah so. older glass is the biggest gamble. even old EF glass that was made when sensors were still super bad
now we have gear to get all the nasty flaws out

[civic mirage]

Honestly with mono astro cams using rgb filters you can technically avoid CA. Astrobiscuit did it with that Orion ST80 if I remember correctly.

[chilly ingot]

ye

think he is lucky imaging with a cheap 150/750 achromat frac

using a borg super reducer

bringing it down to like f3.6

[civic mirage]

A new video coming??

Or is that an older vid

[chilly ingot]

it was in some BAT meeting vod

[civic mirage]

Oh yea I haven't been in one of those lol

[chilly ingot]

those are chonky scopes and quite cheap

[uneven compass]

WIP

25 hours w l Enhance

Cc would be greatly appreciated

[uneven compass]

Roki is wild

[solid raptor]

What changed between your first edit? This one lools much more vibrant

[uneven compass]

Lots of masked curves adjustments, sat boosts, histogram transformations, etc

[chilly ingot]

aka, magic

[solid raptor]

@uneven compass what was the focal ratio btw?

[uneven compass]

F2

Retook stars last night

[solid raptor]

Yeah your edit in the comp channel looks miles better than the first one as well

[uneven compass]

Which one do you all think is better?

Pretty much the same, just more stretched on the right

[chilly ingot]

1

[uneven compass]

Yeah I think I'm with you there

[civic mirage]

That surrounding Ha is dope af

I need to get a Roki to pair with a SW SA GTi.

If they come out with a mono 585... 🔥

Mosaic beast.

[chilly ingot]

mosaic with a small 8mpix sensor

4 sets of flats per panel

how about. bigger sensor. no mosaic needed

[civic mirage]

Better sampling

[civic mirage]

4 sets?

[chilly ingot]

per filter

[uneven compass]

The mono 533 exists

[civic mirage]

Yea, but... 1k

[chilly ingot]

i think wanting 2.9um pixels over 3.76 is not that big of a deal when the imaging area would increase by a landslide

using a 571

[civic mirage]

Oh yii for mono lol

[civic mirage]

Again it would be around 649 (considering 585 cooled color is 549) vs 1k for 533mm. Not to mention 571 even more.

[solid raptor]

Maybe a used 294MM is an option

[chilly ingot]

touptek

[civic mirage]

533 is def nicer for mosaics cause of the 1:1 aspect ratio, but budget is what I had in mind.

[civic mirage]

Def cheaper

[chilly ingot]

well. bigger is bigger. asp-c will do 4 of those 585 panels at once. or maybe even slightly more

insane time savings for bigger projects

idk. not much mosaic stuff planned for me.

maybe if i image heart nebula with the newt i might frame it to add the soul as a mosaic later

if its doable on separate nights

[civic mirage]

Dam toupteks 533 mono is still 870, lowest may be 800. If I could find one used... May have to bag.

[uneven compass]

Another edit lol

Eh that ones not so good

[dark zealot]

very fire love the reds

[mystic loom]

so this might end up being a dumb question but how are rokis coupled with an astro camera? what are the image train components to make it work? Looking at them it appears each has their branded DSLR mating end - it seems like you'd need the opposite of a t ring to connect them to an astro camera? What am I missing?

[chilly ingot]

Not much. Its common to use a filter drawer for the chosen bayonet mount

Something like this https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/product/new-filter-drawer-for-eos-lens/

there are also versions for nikon lenses and stuff

[mystic loom]

oh sweet, thank you!

[chilly ingot]

Anyway, there is a solution for a mono camera + filterwheel to a dslr lens too. Usually Canon and Nikon lenses are used in astro, but not the mirrorless versions (too small backfocus for stuffs)

[mystic loom]

Another question: I don’t fully understand difference here using lenses compared to telescopes-how does changing the f stop change focal length? Trying to get a sense of framing. If I set the lens to f 2.8 what happens to the 135 focal length?

I get that it becomes longer but what’s the formula here so I can enter a handful of preset values in my framing app

And for setting things in asiair etc

[dark zealot]

focal legnth doesnt change

[twilit hound]

f stop does not change the focal length at all, its simply the number to control your aperture. you can do that on this lens because it's a camera lens. compared to a telescope it's usually a fixed focal length and fixed aperture

your framing will not change though

[dark zealot]

for a lens wtih astro, its better to just use external aperture masks so you dont get ugly diffractoin spikes

you can 3d print those and sand it i suppose

[chilly ingot]

the FL stays the same when changing the ratio. With fast camera lenses its common to choke it down a little to get sharper images.

[mystic loom]

Ohhhhhh got it just slows the light collection speed, same FOV

[chilly ingot]

yeah

[mystic loom]

This is why it’s a good way to get better stars later because stars are bright and who cares if you’re shooting them at f 4 or whatever

[chilly ingot]

i use stepdown rings so i dont get diffraction spikes

the internal aperture control blades (if there is manual control). produce some spikes to bright stars

when clicked down abit. fully open there is no spikes

[mystic loom]

Link to these step down rings?

Or are they standard

[chilly ingot]

example

https://www.amazon.com/Andoer-18pcs-37-49-52-55-58-62-67-72-77-82mm-Filter-Adapter/dp/B01FS6JDRQ/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1Y0HGKFFK0S7N&keywords=step+down+rings&qid=1689783731&sprefix=step+down+ring%2Caps%2C189&sr=8-5

i like the set with both stepdown and step up

they just screw into the front filter threads to close down the aperture. you just calculate what F ratio it gives

i got 72mm filter thread on my canon 200mm. i made stepdown ring sets to 62mm and 58mm

so 200 : 62 = F3.2 and 200 : 58 = F3.45

might toss the rings for F4 in my bag just incase

@mystic loom i dont really know if lenses only have troubles with the pinpoint sources of light with the fastest apertures. Stepping down helps with the star shapes and chromatic aberrations.

so not sure of the dimmer background is also affecter with less than perfect correction in the lens. Some people image wide open and then stars with alot slower f ratio

refractors are well corrected and dont need tinkering. but they are not even close to this FAST

[mystic loom]

Spose I can always also just get stars with my refractor whenever even in LP at home and register them against each other if it gives me trouble while I’m learning

But this doesn’t sound too daunting either using these rings or whatever

Sounds like at least @uneven compass has had success with l enhance (which I have) too—even though it’s not for fast gear—nonstellar seems to be fine on it even with the coma on the stars . I don’t need to go run for a fast filter do I?

If I use this different speed for stars trick?

[dark zealot]

l enhance is pretty wide so it wont cut off any ha or oiii

actually maybe

just stop down or get an alp t

[worthy grove]

I use the l-extreme with it and it is great under my b7 skies but the halos are nuts

[mystic loom]

God what is wrong with me, I’m already considering doing this to myself with this lens

[chilly ingot]

24panels

@mystic loom how much time per panel then?

[patent dove]

I use this https://www.firstlightoptics.com/adapters/astro-essentials-samyang-lens-to-m48-adapter.html

only works with the canon version for the lens tho i believe

[solid raptor]

I got that was well but couldnt test it yet

Do you use it with afilter drawer?@patent dove

[patent dove]

yes, zwo drawer

[solid raptor]

What spacers do you have in between the lens and camera?

[patent dove]

7.5mm spacer + 21mm drawer + 9mm spacer + 6.5mm camera back focus

[chilly ingot]

the v2 filter drawer is pretty ok. i got the m48 thingy too but. cant fix internal tilt

[solid raptor]

Is there any way to fix internal tilt?

[chilly ingot]

idk yeat. prolly gonna trade the lens away for now instead of paying for a "maybe fix" by a camera service shop

i backed off since i dont have anything to shoot with that fov i like for now

[patent dove]

was just gonna say its probably cheaper to find another one

[chilly ingot]

its a 50/50 risk

i get 250€ straight up from mpb or something. if i pay 80 - 120€ labour for a shop and its not improved

them im out of pocket half the trade value so

decisions

[patent dove]

I got lucky getting mine from someone who offered a raw image to check star quality

[chilly ingot]

yeah

[chilly ingot]

ok i sent a email to the swedish camera service if they will fix it

guess i can let em tinker with it since i dont plan on using it for a while

if it comes out perfect the value just shot up 2x

[solid raptor]

@chilly ingot Do you have a sample image?

[chilly ingot]

maybe it was this

[solid raptor]

Oh yeah that looks difficult

[chilly ingot]

left side out of focus, middle in focus, right side past focus

thats how it sweeps across the frame

[chilly ingot]

that was like f4 or slower

[solid raptor]

OOF

[short charm]

That really looks like backfocus

[chilly ingot]

F2.8 narrowband, single sub

[chilly ingot]

does the same with a dslr

[short charm]

Well, the flange distance of the lens then

That's what I meant

[chilly ingot]

if i increase backfocus with a astrocam. it wont reach infinity even with the mod

tryed it.

maybe someday i can shoot f2 narrowband

[short charm]

Think the issue is it's less than 55mm

[chilly ingot]

huh?

EF lens backfocus is 44mm.

had 0.3, 0.5 and 1mm shims. i was at 1100 focuser step, i set zero to bottom out towards infinity

when i increased by 1mm i was at step 200 or something

then i focused left side and then right side. had 100 - 150 focuser step difference

[short charm]

sorry got those confused, yes 44mm

what I mean is it possibly less than that maybe?

[chilly ingot]

if there is something wrong inside. i had two setups of mounting it. filter drawer + cam. dead on 44mm.

then i added shims to account for the filter thickness, it was 2.5mm glass so i added 0.8mm

used a M48 bayonet replacement and a filter cell, all thread on parts for 44mm again. then shim the 0.8mm again for the filter

same thing, was not camera connection tilt. i got no tilt with the refractor :/

@short charm shimming the rear lens group by 1mm in the lens would actually fix the infinity focus problem i think. all the lens elements are in one piece housing like a refractor's flattener

but ye dont have a 3d printer to make such part. would be easy though

then there is the one screw that is visible not bottomed out inside the focuser. the other two screwheads sit lower

might explain why its focusing light to the side

[mystic loom]

how solid is that ZWO drawer? that machined piece is great but man it just seems very silly to buy a single piece of metal from the UK to ship to Arizona, doesn't seem to be carried anywhere else

like how solid is the Canon ZWO drawer in terms of creating a decent imaging train?

the zwo drawer is also overpriced but at least it provides some function I'd otherwise have to additionally buy, just want to make sure it's not a bad choice to omit the FLO piece

[chilly ingot]

i measured mine with digital calipers and it has more accurate dimensions than the tolerance of the caliper itself

bayonet fits tighter than my actual canon dslr

[mystic loom]

awesome

will just get the zeo drawer

zwo*

this does mean for annoyance reduction I should prob get a matching zwo drawer for my refractor which currently has a blue fireball one, would rather avoid repeat screwing and unscrewing of those filters, ha

[patent dove]

im in the US as well, I got that bayonet from the UK just cause I didn’t want to get another filter drawer when I already got the standard zwo drawer

[chilly ingot]

smart

[mystic loom]

@uneven compass with your l enhance what is your usual exposure length at 2 and at 2.8?

[uneven compass]

I'm not sure about 2.8, but st f2 I've pushed it all the way to 300s

I still have a swsa, so that's the biggest constraint

[chilly ingot]

20,90€ shipping cost for my roki "maybe warranty" service

bastards dont have a return's number for a courier service

[mystic loom]

Alright, I bought in to this anxious cult

hopefully I got a good one, bought samyang version on amazon

will just return / exchange until I have what I want

so to test, I'm going to want to point it at something with bright stars, no? like should I just shoot at cygnus loop to see how it does at f2? What am I looking for specifically? Note I have a 533mc pro so will probably be a bit more forgiving anyway at the corners with my small sensor

and should I do it in the conditions I'd be doing it in generally (with my l enhance in place), or should i be testing in broadband?

[uneven compass]

I doubt the filter will make much of a difference when testing the lens quality

[chilly ingot]

first problem what pretty much everyone gets is the loss of infinity focus even when the optics are perfect. easy fix for it

the hard stop gets in the way. there is still room to turn more when its removed

did it myself. my lens running out of room to turn the focuser was tempature related. worked in the freezing cold, a hair short of infinity when it got warmer

[mystic loom]

ha, well with 100º midnights right now no better time to test

is that tab there broken off or ? in case I need to piece this back together for a return in case of the other issue (coma?)

[chilly ingot]

nah its on by those 3 little screws. its just totally removed to get the extra 5mm of movement in the focuser

nebula photos did a video about this too. takes only a few minutes

but as for that imx533. you will never have a problem with vignetting, thats for sure 😄

but ye, a lens that is sharp from corner to corner at f2.8 is great. the super sharp ones at f2 are rare as hell and a pipedream for most

I think Alex tested some stepdown rings and his lens is still super sharp at f2.3

[mystic loom]

in other words if things look good at 2.8 feel good -- don't try to rock the boat

well f2.8 is fine. I'm in this half for the way wider FOV for huge targets, half for something ultra portable for quick dark site trips, and .... er, half for the fact that my "fastish" scope is only f4.8 so even that is going to be quite a fun time

[short charm]

Minus the tilt yes lol

[chilly ingot]

[short charm]

I also hate the roki aperture blades, so i would've used the rings anyhow

[short charm]

Yeah I have a feeling my 60d has some sensor tilt after the conversion

[dark zealot]

@pure peak

[chilly ingot]

[chilly ingot]

I feel robbed. Sending a lens to a neighboring country.. 28,90€

[mystic loom]

So wait, the things to remove the focus hard stop is under the grip? It feels pretty solidly on and not sure how I’d get this off without damaging it

[worthy grove]

Do you actually need to remove it though, don't go voiding the warranty unless you actually need to?

[chilly ingot]

If its fine, no need for it

[mystic loom]

Yeah not going to until I need to

Just not sure how else I’d test sharpness without having it in focus first

[worthy grove]

What makes you think you need to?

[mystic loom]

Oh no reason, it sounded like from here infinity focus problems are near endemic

[worthy grove]

Just test it now. Try and focus to infinity and check the pics are sharp

[worthy grove]

Not endemic it's just common with some versions but you can find out pretty quick now?

[mystic loom]

I unfortunately don’t have a dslr so testing with the Astro cam will need to wait until the coupling gear arrives

[worthy grove]

Oh right I see. Fair enough.

[mystic loom]

Cmon dhl

I am considering just getting a used modded canon on eBay to also have for ultra wide shots on the cheap

[uneven compass]

I've never had infinity focus issues

[worthy grove]

Yeah a 6d is a popular one and cheap and easy to get

[uneven compass]

Just gotta get back focus right

I really haven't heard of many people who do tbh

[mystic loom]

There’s a t4i on eBay for 175 right now

[uneven compass]

Considering you use a larger mount rather than a tracker, I don't really know if the dslr would be a good thing to buy

[mystic loom]

Yeah I was just toying with it, as an idea

[uneven compass]

They're nice if you ever just want to take a quick shot without having to worry about guiding, computers, etc but without a tracker you're going to have to deal with that stuff either way

[worthy grove]

Untracked stuff and milky way shots though?

[uneven compass]

They're nice for milky way shots yeah

If you ever wanted to try taking something untracked it'd be good to have

[mystic loom]

At this pixel scale and with an am5 properly aligned it’s probably pretty forgiving untracked no?

[worthy grove]

It's a good portrait lens too if you do other photography but I guess not if you don't already own a DSLR?

[mystic loom]

No no photography

All space!

[mystic loom]

Well all the coupling gear arrives today from agena and while my mount kit still@is making its way from Germany I forgot I bought a cheap ring thing that I suspect I can mount to a dovetail with some kind of screw to test it out

[worthy grove]

Looks very similar to what I used. Something like £10 off Amazon

Needed a slight modding with some felt padding

[mystic loom]

Can line it with gaffers tape until it’s snug , just going to use it for testing purposes until my 3d print thing arrives

[worthy grove]

Yeah I didn't bother with the printed thing as not using the electronic focusser

[mystic loom]

I got one for this project that will either go on here or move to my celestron c6, if this project doesn't work and I sell everything and get a hyperstar

but I like the FOV of this setup more

[chilly ingot]

The grip is on like a rubber band. It slides back pretty easy once its lifted over the edge

Check the nebula photos video to understand it better. But ofc, dont do it unless you need to

[shell wasp]

what were your dithering settings? i have the same filter and wondering if filter is making walking noise bad

i know we have different cams

[uneven compass]

20 pixels every 5 frames

That being said, about 19 hours of that were with 90s subs, and 6 or so were with 300s

More data will always help

[shell wasp]

and you have a 533mc pro yes?

[chilly ingot]

i got quite bad walking noise once when i dithered every 2 frames with 45s subs. RA only though. Im gonna dither every frame from now on no matter what

[uneven compass]

Correct

[shell wasp]

i’m thinking about 45 pixels every 3 since 15px every 3 frames didn’t do anything

[chilly ingot]

dither well, drizzle works better

[shell wasp]

the either takes a while though, i either in both axes though

[uneven compass]

How much data did you have? And how long were your subs?

[chilly ingot]

my mount was hypertuned to mint. it settled back in 1-2seconds

so i had no real big loss by frequent dithering

[shell wasp]

only about 2 hrs since i’m just testing it and about 1m if i remember correct, and the sensor temp was about 39C lol

[shell wasp]

ah i see

[uneven compass]

What cam?

And what bortle?

[shell wasp]

rebel t2i b4

[uneven compass]

Unmodded?

[shell wasp]

mhm

[chilly ingot]

@shell wasp when the mount was stock. it just would not settle well and timed out.

[uneven compass]

Is the walking noise mainly in the red channel?

[shell wasp]

yes

while using the filter

[uneven compass]

The issue is the cam then

[shell wasp]

yeah wondering if the temp is making it worse too

[uneven compass]

Because the filter blocks out all red that isn't ha, there is quite little red signal

[shell wasp]

right

[uneven compass]

Temp always makes noise worse generally, but the main issue is the lack of ha sensitivity

[shell wasp]

so i mean it’s the filter, not the cam basically

yeah

might just shoot BB then

[uneven compass]

Yeah, I'd recommend doing that with a dslr

Modding the cam would also fix it, but that's a whole other bag of worms

[shell wasp]

i would rather get a dedicated astronomy camera than mod it honestly

[uneven compass]

That's what I'd recommend doing

Join the 533mc gang

[shell wasp]

900 bucks though 😩

[uneven compass]

You can find it used for around 600

[shell wasp]

i’ve seen a uranus that’s cooled for like 500, considering that

[uneven compass]

I got mine with 2 filters and shipping for 650

[shell wasp]

huh

[uneven compass]

It's worth the extra 200

[shell wasp]

is it?

[uneven compass]

The used astro market is great

Yeah, the bigger sensor is a massive plus

[shell wasp]

i’ve had a swsa up for 280 for like a month and no one has bought it

[shell wasp]

is it just more res?

[uneven compass]

No, it's a physically bigger sensor

Let me pull smth up

[shell wasp]

and having a bigger sensor just means collecting more light

[uneven compass]

The 585 isn't here, but it's in between the size of the 533 and 178

[shell wasp]

and it’s also a square instead of a rectangle?

[uneven compass]

The 533 is a square, 585 is a rectangle

[shell wasp]

i see

[uneven compass]

Ik the square is a deal breaker for some, but I don't really care

[shell wasp]

yeah i wouldn’t honestly

and how do you attach the roki to the 533, it just screws?

[uneven compass]

You have to buy an adapter

There was a convo about it in this forum a few days ago

[shell wasp]

and is focusing easy?

[uneven compass]

Not any harder than with a dslr lol

[shell wasp]

yeah, i’ll look into it definitely, thank you

[uneven compass]

Np!

[chilly ingot]

the filter drawer option is the smartest in my opinion

there are other adapters. they either have no threads for filters or they have some for a weird size

bunch of people using the "V2" or "new" version of zwo's filter drawer to a camera lens, eos, nikon etc

with great success

[mystic loom]

I like the square, for things that fit in it I like the square print

And readymade for sharing with friends on IG, lol

[mystic loom]

All set to test just need some clouds to take a break sometime this week

[gleaming flare]

overkill mount lol

doesnt even need guiding

[mystic loom]

Lol my main is a 72mm refractor

[chilly ingot]

cool rig

[distant dune]

When it tells on the lenses name that it’s cannon, then what kind of cannon it is? (EF, FD, etc.) I’m trying to find an adapter to connect the Samyang 135 mm f2 cannon with my M4/3 camera, no filters. But I don’t know wich one it is.

[chilly ingot]

can you tell more about the camera other than sensor size

[distant dune]

My mirrorless camera is a LUMIX GX85

Panasonic

[chilly ingot]

Seems like they do make a version for that camera.

there are also adapters for example. canon EF lens to a MFT

you mentioned stuff like FD mount, thats vintage 90's canon stuff. no longer made

[distant dune]

Alright, thanks!

[mystic loom]

Thx! Waiting on this to arrive and then it’ll be set up

[chilly ingot]

yeah that is the best ring setup

the redcat ring is not optimal what i got. it blocks the aperture adjustment ring

and with a EAF bracket i have it puts some torque. that astrodynium is perfect since it grips the front too

super stable

[mystic loom]

Yeah this was just for trying a test shot but the way the clouds have been the Germany package will get here before I get it outside

[uneven compass]

Summer project #2 has official begun

I am determined to get the w63 Snr

[mystic loom]

ok conditions are total garbage out there right now, but unlikely to get better for next two weeks in terms of night clouds -- found one region that wasn't totally overrun to test stars in corners at f 2 and f 2.8

let me know what you think about this? Seems like I have a fair amount of elongation at top right and left corners in both f 2 and f 2.8

that is f 2, this is f 2.8

I did polar align and am on an AM5, and exposure was only 10s so doubt those are trails but could be wrong

is this a dud, or inconclusive?

seems like some astigmatism too, but not sure

(not sure if this discord has trained me to be way too critical of rokinons/samyangs)

[chilly ingot]

Got anything to stack abit or the whole sub

What does ASTAP inspection say?

What happens if you do longer subs

With my lens, the comet like tails got longer on bad stars

Stopping down to 2.8 seemed to have helped abit. Id still be abit bummed out. Looks to me its not amazing, but its not complete trash either.

If a 30, 45, 60sec sub shows super nasty areas at top and middle right. Back to amazon you go 😂

[short charm]

That almost looks like tilt or backfocus though, idk if I'd treat it as a bad copy yet. I don't really see any bad fringing on that small sensor, so It may be good

I'd also try with a proper DSLR, these lenses are really designed with 5micron pixels in mind, not 3.76

[mystic loom]

should cruise ebay for a modded dslr to add to the collection

would tilt be possibly occurring given the goofy mount it's currently in? one hold point

Need to try again when that astrodymium clone arrives, since it has two hold points, maybe?

is there any way to test for tilt in the daytime?

[chilly ingot]

Alex makes a good point with the tilt. F2 system is way more sensitive for that

Seen some people support the camera and lens on a long dovetail with big guidescope rings

Zwo makes a 11mm long t2 tilt plate to fit the 533 style cameras. It replaces the 11mm long t2 extension

that a another expense on a maybe

I did that and no success.

My lens did the same with 4cams

now i own a tilt plate

[mystic loom]

ordered the tilt plate, that seems a nice enough upgrade to the 533 anyway

i think I really need to get my actual mount kit for this thing to get a better sense of what is going on in the optical train

and probs need to dust off my windows astro pc to do some closer analysis in NINA than is possible on the asiair

[mystic loom]

help me understand tilt a little better -- is there any impact on it if the whole "Ota" + camera assembly is out of perpendicular to the mount? Or is this just internal to the optical axis

[mystic loom]

I do keep looking at it and more I do, I see what you all mean about tilt/backfocus. Here are the corners super zoomed in:

they're all pointing out in the directions that would indicate I need to pull out the BF a bit, though yes at different degrees so likely also a tilt element to it

I have a bunch of spacers so trying that next

[chilly ingot]

When i was testing out some shims. Adding 1mm was quite abit as EAF stepcount

[mystic loom]

i just put on a 1mm to start

[chilly ingot]

I have a 0.3, 0,5 and 1mm i think

[mystic loom]

yep, same

I have the color coded astrodymium set

[chilly ingot]

I added them againt the cam since it had the longest thread

when i had tilt plate on

[mystic loom]

oh interesting yeah

but these stars don't look horrendous other than BF/tilt issues?

[chilly ingot]

the stock 11mm does the same though

[mystic loom]

what would i be looking for?

bloat?

[chilly ingot]

Idk seems allright. Nothing post processing cant fix with that mild CA

if you load the sub to ASTAP

It can draw some lines where the stars are pointing

but ye it does mildly point to some small backfocus thing

rigging my canon lens now

Need to sort out my whole astro backbag

Cleaning all filters and optics. Hyped for darker skies next month

[mystic loom]

where is the ccd inspector in astap? For the life of me cannot find it

oh found it!

seems like we've got a tilt thing going on

[chilly ingot]

i think hocus focus in nina also has tools for adjusting tilt. there are some great videos in youtube

should be a superior method adjusting it live than dragging subs to astap

[mystic loom]

definitely

[chilly ingot]

with astap i found that if both side are equally defocused it results in low tilt number. other side is out of focus and other past focus 😄

[mystic loom]

tilt is still a thing but here are some 2.8 stars, followed by some f4 stars, and some f2 stars

f4, then f2

I know not to expect perfect at f2, but this look like a decent copy? Hopefully my full rig arrives end of this week and I can stat trying to tweak back focus and tilt

but wanted to share some 60s ones for folks' opinions (the prior ones I shared were only 10 second shots)

[short charm]

Yeah f2 definitely gives you fringing on those samples, and it's kinda noticeable at f4 as well

F4 you gotta pixel peep though

Hmmm, do you have a uv/ir cut filter on there?

[mystic loom]

I do

[solid raptor]

I'd say return as long as you can

[mystic loom]

cool, will do

so we're largely looking at chromatic aberration

someone in the astrophotography world should produce a rokinon inspection checklist, the QA that the factory doesn't do, lol

[solid raptor]

Maybe wait for other opinions as well but I wouldn't want to have an OK copy long term if I could've had a good copy for little to no extra expenses

[mystic loom]

yeah for sure

I'm only 5 days into my amazon return window

[solid raptor]

Easy then

[mystic loom]

I will sit on it for a bit longer and then send it back -- reset the return clock since it seems I bought this during "every night is cloudy even if the daytime is crystal clear" season in arizona, maybe I can wait this out a bit to make testing less harrowing

[mystic loom]

hoping to land a good one in like three strikes

[chilly ingot]

[mystic loom]

🤞

[chilly ingot]

A good copy is something to guard with ur life

[mystic loom]

haha

[chilly ingot]

a lifetime keeper

unless science developes some magic glass that makes all optics obsolete

the roki is 2.5x - 3x cheaper than sigma art 135mm

Thats alot of savings

for same sharpness

[mystic loom]

yeah I think I am going to try three times and see where I stand

not that I won't try a fourth but at that point the draw of "just get a redcat, speed be damned" might start singing its siren's call

[chilly ingot]

hope my canon 200 is sharp

love it with daytime stuff

[short charm]

Or just get a used good copy?

Also, try with a stepdown ring, I had about same fringing til I installed the stepdown ring, seems like my errors were closer to the edge of the front element

[chilly ingot]

interesting

so ur front element didnt deliver good shallow angle light

[short charm]

That's what it felt like yeah

I was going to just live with the fringing, but after installing down to 58mm, I didn't see any anymore

So your guess is as good as mine lol

[chilly ingot]

another reason for stepdown rings to the list

[mystic loom]

Ordered, could be interesting to see if that solves everything

I’d certainly be fine with f 2.3

[chilly ingot]

f2.3 would be god tier still.

the 2.8 with no bad stuff happening is the norm

[mystic loom]

2.8 still nice, for sure

for nonstellar, what is the impact of shooting wide open with a lens that can really only begin to do stars well at 2.8?

assume I own blurxterminator and starxterminator and they're always part of my flow

[civic mirage]

Ayo anybody got a nice integration of the Sadr region using aps-c sized sensor? I want to compare this old ass data I took at 135mm using a 50 USD Nikon AF-S 55-200mm lens.

Roki vs Niko

Im interested to see the difference in detail. I already know my image will get blown out of the water in terms of sharpness.

[short charm]

Fpl53 enters the chat

But really, if ANYONE makes an fpl53 135mm triplet with f/2, that thing will sell like crazy

Shoot, even a 100mm at f2

[solid raptor]

You might also wanna consider a shaprstar fma 180 pro

They're made for AP and have an inbuilt field flattener

[mystic loom]

may have found a used samyang, having the guy take some sample shots with it. He just sold his tracker so can only take unguided -- figured he would still be able to demonstrate any coma in corners with his APS C. Could turning up his ISO help with showing any potential CA, given that he can't do 60 s exposures? I plan on sharing the pics here to get the opinion of the brain trust

[short charm]

I'd have him point at Polaris, that way there's less trailing, and I'd keep iso max at 6400, and ideally 10s

And have him take f2, 2.8 and 4

[uneven compass]

Wip

[shell wasp]

super clean, how much int?

looks like you have a halo on the left

[uneven compass]

About 10 hours

Halos have been awful on this data for some reason

[shell wasp]

are you using a filter?

[uneven compass]

Lenhance

But my other lenhance data hasn't been this bad

[solid raptor]

I can't tell, what are we looking at right now? 😄

If it's no crop that region mus be pretty large

Somewhere in Cygnus?

[uneven compass]

Cygnus

Above deneb

[solid raptor]

Oh splendid

[uneven compass]

And yeah no crop

[solid raptor]

How much data are you aiming at?

[uneven compass]

I'd really like 20 hours or more

I have 15 atm

[shell wasp]

yeah, i’m selling my clip in l enhance for my dslr, may have to grab an l-enhance sometime in the future, i think the next purchase would be pixensight though

[uneven compass]

Thats fair, pix is a huge upgrade

Are you using an unmodded dslr now?

[shell wasp]

my 533mc pro is arriving tomorrow, very excited

[worthy grove]

Great, another two weeks of rain in the offing then 😂

[shell wasp]

it’s clear here every night actually, just hot

[mystic loom]

there's some noticeable star trailing (he wasn't able to shoot polaris due to smoke in that direction from a neighbor's fire, as he said) - this is altair; not sure whether this is even usable. Trying to get confirmation on sequencing and aperture - he sent me a folder of like 100 3s exposures but the metadata isnt' clear if there are f2.8 and 4 captures too

Not sure if anything in astap is useful here - would "tilt" just show tilt or can it indicate coma issues too?

or is HFD or roundness better for gauging coma issues?
Are these shots even useful for gauging anything given the star trails?

in order: Tilt, HFD, Roundness

Trails from being untracked are pretty considerable. Not sure if this is useful data for gauging

[chilly ingot]

well 3s untracked subs are unusable

[mystic loom]

ha, yeah figured. Well will not treat this one as the grail and will keep at the amazon grind!

[shell wasp]

@uneven compass i just realized that i need a mounting system since i just have a vixen style dovetail, but i can’t find any mount system anywhere online; they’re all sold out

[uneven compass]

Mounting rings for the roki?

https://www.etsy.com/listing/1266065139/hyperpod-135-lens-mounting-system-for?gpla=1&gao=1&&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=shopping_us_a-electronics_and_accessories-electronics_cases-camera_bags_and_cases-camera_accessories&utm_custom1=_k_CjwKCAjwzo2mBhAUEiwAf7wjkuTt6TxCN2cNQKmVGQE2eXHiltjbSEMVHCZ0zifuiZUp8Mve2RVe6xoCqOAQAvD_BwE_k_&utm_content=go_12573079807_124822097172_507896636054_pla-349009377264_m__1266065139_12768591&utm_custom2=12573079807&gclid=CjwKCAjwzo2mBhAUEiwAf7wjkuTt6TxCN2cNQKmVGQE2eXHiltjbSEMVHCZ0zifuiZUp8Mve2RVe6xoCqOAQAvD_BwE

This one exists

Everything else does seem sold out

[shell wasp]

i know its annoying

im wondering if this will work

holds the camera, i just dont know if the mount is vixen

[chilly ingot]

Well that has arca swiss at the bottom what any mount definately isnt

[shell wasp]

i just realised

it has screws on the bottom so I can just attatch it through 3/8 to my existing vixen style plate

[chilly ingot]

needs a long plate and a big guide scope ring to the front to support the lens

[shell wasp]

it seems to support the roki ok

[chilly ingot]

Ye

[shell wasp]

ok well im desperate so ill do that

[chilly ingot]

Ef mount has springs under the lugs. Id get one of those 3 screw guide scope rings to it later. If there is tilt

[shell wasp]

itll work until i get a new scope

[chilly ingot]

Ye sure it probably is servicable

[shell wasp]

this is what im going for

we'll see how it works

god i hope it works

[short charm]

Technically, yes, but you're adding lots of flexure

You really want it to be connected in 2 points, bonus points for camera also laying flat on something

[shell wasp]

i don’t really know what my other option is @short charm

[short charm]

Where do you live?

I'm assuming USA?

[shell wasp]

southern us

yeah

everything else is sold out

[short charm]

Welp, astrodymium apparently cannot process any orders atm

[shell wasp]

yep

[short charm]

https://www.cloudynights.com/classifieds/item/338684-astrodymium-ring-system-with-zwo-eaf-mount/

You can do used

Or print your own if you have a printer

[chilly ingot]

Holding the cam with the zwo ring and lens separately will actually work really well

Looks kinda bad tho but its all function

[short charm]

Yeah it would work, but there will be potential tilt and flexure introduced

[shell wasp]

yeah that seems like i could get it

it would be easier

[chilly ingot]

There are also sites you can buy printed stuff if you upload the files. Assemble at home

idk how great it will be

with all the threaded fittings.

[shell wasp]

i sent him a message, trying to cancel my order for the other thing

[shell wasp]

thanks for finding this

[short charm]

The ad is from almost 2months ago though, so check first

[shell wasp]

he was online today

and he has other classifieds and someone left him a review on him selling them something yesterday

[short charm]

Nah more like if it's not sold yet

[shell wasp]

ah i see

if i can get it it will be nice, since when i sell my roki for better optics it will add some value to it

i’ve been pleasantly surprised with agena astro, they shipped my adapter instantly and cancelled my order within 20 minutes

[desert python]

Ah how lovely that is! The Veil Nebula Complex will be one of my most desired areas when I get my roki!

[uneven compass]

Im reprocessing it atm lmao

And yeah, its a super great region

[short charm]

Agena is the best astro store in the US rn, no doubts about it

[shell wasp]

i’ve been using HPS since i really like their customer and technical support but i’ve most definitely gotten a good first impression from them

[uneven compass]

Which do you all prefer?

[desert python]

2

[shell wasp]

is there discord compression on that

[uneven compass]

There is always discord compression

[short charm]

Ordered from both opt and hps, and they don't really compare to agena in terms of stock and decent pricing. Also agena support is awesome

[shell wasp]

yeah i’ll definitely be using them more in the future

[cosmic marlin]

the whole weight of roki is hanging off the filter draw ?

[shell wasp]

that's a valuable filter drawer, what can I say?

[cosmic marlin]

.. what ?

[shell wasp]

that guy is still selling it and he's giving me it for 50 bucks, although i have to buy another dovetail but not bad

[uneven compass]

Definitely prefer the new one finally

Much cleaner

I'd really like to win low teir lmao

[civic mirage]

Bro I saw yours in the comp just a sec ago, dam good

That background Ha has got you the upper hand

[uneven compass]

Honestly... yours is the biggest one I'm worried about

The processing is pretty great, I love how glowy it all is

[gleaming flare]

https://tenor.com/view/yoda-there-is-another-star-wars-jedi-gif-5140031

I've said too much

[uneven compass]

In low tier?

[civic mirage]

Ayo now you got me curious

[gleaming flare]

Wait nvm i think the project is considered high-tier

[uneven compass]

"The project"

Very excited to see this

[civic mirage]

Yii I'm thinking the same thing

I did a thorough inspection

[uneven compass]

Same lmao

[shell wasp]

@uneven compasswhat star database do you use for platesolving?

[uneven compass]

No idea

Just the one I was told to download for pmcc

[shell wasp]

got the camera, now i just need to mount it

[civic mirage]

If I see a speck of dust on that sensor

[shell wasp]

i didn’t see any, flats exist anyways and if it’s on the front glass i have a rocket air blower

[civic mirage]

Yea it looks clean tho

Any reason you didn't go with player one?

[shell wasp]

533mc has no amp glow, overall really nice specs, more people have it and so i can ask more questions, better sensor, etc

[civic mirage]

No I meant the player one 533mc

Same sensor

[uneven compass]

Same price, and there's a bigger used market for the zwo

[civic mirage]

Oh if he got it used than that explains it

Player one used market is almost non existent

Maybe some here and there

[shell wasp]

i didn’t get it used

many other people have the exact same setup i’m going to have so i just thought it would be easier, it looks like a solid camera though

[civic mirage]

Oh ok well nvm

[gleaming flare]

nothing wrong with the player one, 533MC pro and ares c pro are the same price

sooo just pick whichever color you like i guess

[civic mirage]

Yea it's a very good cam obviously it's just Player One did things a bit better when it comes to quality of life features.

[gleaming flare]

I would personally go with player one for my first astro cam

[civic mirage]

They seem to care more about whats ideal for the user

[gleaming flare]

I like the design

[civic mirage]

Indeed

I can't not have their new carbon fibre design

[uneven compass]

What does the player one have that the zwo does not?

[civic mirage]

It's simply getting bought by myself period

[gleaming flare]

I'm only going to get player one because I like the colors lol