University of Chicago (UChicago) (2023-2024)

[rugged field]

be an investment banker

done

all settled

just dont drop econ

cuz salary will drop from 200k to 0

[molten adder]

lmaooo

what’s median starting for econ majors?

roughly

[rugged field]

no idea

[molten adder]

i heard everyone is do econ in one way or another

[rugged field]

not rlly

like less than half

[molten adder]

my cousin doing data science he said that

it’s also his first yr tho

[rich sapphire]

half of my friends are econ majors or econ minors so id say a lot do some form

[rugged field]

data science 🤣 🤣 🤣 🫵 🤣

paying for an undergraduate degree in data science is j sad im sry

[rich sapphire]

oh nice lol

[rich sapphire]

bruh

[molten adder]

he’s well off so just doing what he genuinely enjoys

[little schooner]

There were around 300 comments at the end of last year's ED Cycle in the Duke Applying to College thread while for this year's cycle it's already more than 700 comments. I think this could have very well predicted that this year, ED Duke was gonna be especially tough (30%+ more applications ED + acc rate for 2027 was 16.5% vs 12.9% now in 2028). For a school like Yale that "maintained" a stable acceptance rate (SCEA Acc rate 2027 was 10% vs 9% 2028) the number of comments in the a2c thread were also close to the same amount (583 vs 360 so far, so maybe 450 at the end).

Now for UChicago I believe that this cycle could even be less competitive than last year or at least close to the same level (2027 thread had 711 comments vs 540 comments so far). I think this is also gonna be true because UChicago dropped 6 spots in the USNWR and we all know there's a couple of kids that choose their college list based on it + the loans scandal and recent safety issues.

What I am almost sure is that we're not gonna go through what happened to Duke so I think we're fine.

[rugged field]

aint reading that 👍

[wind viper]

what happened to duke

[molten adder]

wow you’ve been typing

[wind viper]

uchicago's acc rate will probably drop by 3-4%

ed

that's just the trends

[rich sapphire]

what im getting from this is that u think more a2c maroon kiddos?

[grand marten]

submit this for ur uncommon prompt

[rich sapphire]

i will be very happy if that is the case

[molten adder]

good to know

[upper elm]

I AIN'T READIN ALLAT

[little schooner]

I've been doing some AP Lang type of research rn

[rugged field]

its enjoyable cuz its easy

data science is a toy for children

they shd j be glad it pays well

[rich sapphire]

id fail if i did ds

[rugged field]

no u wont

[molten adder]

that reminds me i got ap lit shit i gotta finish up tn

gonna take min hour and a half

fuckkk

[little schooner]

real

I hate AP Lit

[molten adder]

💀💀

[rich sapphire]

it’s literally math cs and stats 3 hard fields

[molten adder]

i don’t

but lots of work

insane amount

[rugged field]

math stats and cs minus the rigor of the 3

its just rote-learning shit

[little schooner]

They received 30%+ more applications

[fading socket]

ay guys weird question but hows the financial aid

[little schooner]

ik

[rich sapphire]

ok but like that’s still tough

[rugged field]

nah

[molten adder]

apparently good if you need it

[wind viper]

it seems good if you're lower middle class and shit if you're upper middle class

[rugged field]

theyre p generous

[little schooner]

huh

[wind viper]

that's my impression. can someone validate or challenge that??

[rugged field]

what is upper middle class

[molten adder]

are uchicago students as unattractive as the rumors say

[little schooner]

80k+ I would say

[rich sapphire]

the a2c children would like to know

[fading socket]

thats good then

[grand marten]

also curious

[fading socket]

if it good it good

[upper elm]

@rugged field am i hot

[wind viper]

probably 120 to 200; i mean like high middle class

[molten adder]

when i visited it seemed pretty polarized

[rugged field]

god damn it

[little schooner]

damn cuh

[rich sapphire]

💀

[molten adder]

answer.

[grand marten]

^^

[rugged field]

ok

[molten adder]

🙏

i want decision already

FUCKKK

[rugged field]

cool

[molten adder]

need motivation to work on rd apps

[rich sapphire]

i think he is ignoring

[upper elm]

i dive into euphrates river if i get rejected

[rich sapphire]

😵

[upper elm]

sry i mistyped

LMFAO

don't do that

[rugged field]

euphrates river

[upper elm]

euphrates river

[molten adder]

yep

yep yep yep

that one

[rich sapphire]

keg

when do u fly back

[bold cairn]

I'm on half

[rich sapphire]

@rugged field

[little schooner]

[rugged field]

im arriving like dec 1 i think

[rich sapphire]

@fading socket finaid is good(?)

[bold cairn]

lmao how do you make that determination 😭😭😭

Lmfao

[rich sapphire]

half is a lot

[rugged field]

ok

[rich sapphire]

bruh

[bold cairn]

yea half is chill

[rich sapphire]

what

[rugged field]

sry

im drunk

jan 1

[rich sapphire]

?????

[rugged field]

im arriving jan 1

[rich sapphire]

ok

[molten adder]

how much do parents earn if you don’t mind sharing

[rugged field]

ok

[fading socket]

thats good then
i prob wont get in tho

[bold cairn]

Idk tbh 💀

[fading socket]

how low do you have to make for uchi to pay off like almost all of it

[molten adder]

oh maybe i’ll get some

wow wow wow i’m obsessed with this school and it’s gonna kick me in the ass on monday

[fading socket]

its gonna be ok

[molten adder]

ik it’s bad to say but i have high hopes i think most ppl secretly do

[fading socket]

you're not wrong i had the same for my princeton app, secretly ofc

[rugged field]

i did too

[molten adder]

i genuinely think i’ll get in which is setting me up for the worst 💀💀

[rugged field]

and im here 👍

[molten adder]

feel like nearly everyone think’s they’re the special exception

no way they’re looking past my gpa 😭😭

[fading socket]

what's your gpa?

[molten adder]

it’s ~70th percentile

at my school

but we don’t rank

[wind viper]

do you have a 4.0 scale?

[molten adder]

3.94

[fading socket]

uw?

[little schooner]

Do they put in in your transcript?

[wind viper]

ok buddy

[rugged field]

🤣 🫵 🫵 🤣 🤣 🤣 🫵

[molten adder]

but i’m being compared to other students at my school

[rugged field]

🤣 🫵 🫵 🤣 🤣 🤣 🫵🤣 🫵 🫵 🤣 🤣 🤣 🫵🤣 🫵 🫵 🤣 🤣 🤣 🫵

[fading socket]

broski i think you're overexagerating
im applying w/ a 3.64uw and 3.88w

[wind viper]

you don't rank , so you're not

[little schooner]

That's some mad grade inflation

[rugged field]

yeah u right actually

3.94 70th

[little schooner]

Valedictorian at my school barely was a 3.9

[molten adder]

it’s also very competitive

[fading socket]

what kinda school is you going to

[glossy spoke]

nah i have similar gpa uw

[molten adder]

we got like 20 acceptances today at least

[molten adder]

public

[glossy spoke]

what the hell

thats scary

[molten adder]

i’m hoping course rigor makes up for it

and SAT

[little schooner]

Bro goes to TJHSST cuz there's no way

[molten adder]

and essays and ECs and everything else

i deadass spent a month on this application

[little schooner]

wtf bro my school hasn't had a single ED acceptance

it never began

[molten adder]

yah bc lots of sweaty kids

[fading socket]

mine got like 1

for upenn

thats it

[molten adder]

i could’ve tried harder but honestly have 0 regret rn

[fading socket]

and thats our valedictorian

[molten adder]

we got more than 5 today

near philly too

[fading socket]

i dont think you should worry too hard honestly because you have insanely good grades and put time and effort into your app

[little schooner]

Our valedictorian last year went to our local T200 school. It's so over for us

[molten adder]

can’t do anything about grades rn so i’ve been focusing on essays and whatnot

i enjoy writing them for most part

[fading socket]

ours is the first going to any ivy in actual years

[little schooner]

yeah we're cooked

our hs is setting us up for failure

[fading socket]

however like 1-3 years ago a person went to uchi from my school

its not unheard of its just rare

(los angeles)

[little schooner]

same for my school, but that's the only one that has been accepted, like, ever.

[fading socket]

daymn

[little schooner]

cool, I live in Sd

[fading socket]

fellow socal

[little schooner]

yeah it's bad, and it's a private school too

idk where are you guys finding these crazy schools

[fading socket]

idk either broski

hopefully tho because its rare from my school to go to uchi i might have a chance?

0 other people want to apply to uchi this year

its just not talked about as an option

[glossy spoke]

same but its weird cus my hs is competitive

ppl here dont look at central

just east and west

[fading socket]

from my school they only look at CA schools or rarely the ivies

[little schooner]

damn, 14 people applied to UChicago from my school this year. Generally like 7 people do each year, but none of them get in.

[fading socket]

nothing else

[molten adder]

🥲🙏

[gloomy ferry]

bro i applied ea and can't edii am i fucked

[molten adder]

why cant ed2

[wind viper]

which bubbles are the ea ones?

[gloomy ferry]

I can't do binding cuz financial reasons and family stuff

[little schooner]

same kinda

[fading socket]

is it possible that because nobody from my school does uchi, i might have a better chance with some meh stats?

[molten adder]

you can get out of contract for financial reasons

[fading socket]

i used the same logic w/ princeton but i gave them a really not so good app

[little schooner]

yeah probably because they have no one to compare you to

[molten adder]

red is rejected blue waitlisted green accepted

its a mix for ea ed rd

[fading socket]

in general in my area nobody does uchi either actually

like its ivies or CA

[wind viper]

ik but you can isolate it

[fading socket]

no midwest

[molten adder]

not enough data

[gloomy ferry]

Yeah but that's not the only reason

[little schooner]

same same

[glossy spoke]

is weighted gpa actually reliable cus my school only does uw so i have no idea what my weighted is or if i should be worried abt it

[rugged field]

wooo non-zero chance of getting in

[fading socket]

so you alr applied to uchi right?

[molten adder]

i wouldnt apply if there wasnt a chance

[fading socket]

how confident do you feel

[molten adder]

eh maybe i would

[fading socket]

ive got an almost 0 and im here

[molten adder]

who here hasnt applied yet?

[fading socket]

🖐️

[molten adder]

shooters shoot

[little schooner]

the shapes don't mean anything I think.

[molten adder]

they dont

[fading socket]

did you guys do the uchi vid?

[molten adder]

yeah you should

treat it like its mandatory

[rugged field]

i didnt LOL

dont be like me

[molten adder]

did you ed?

[rugged field]

ED2

[little schooner]

yeah EDI. I feel so so because im not a cracked applicant and have a couple of Bs + did the essays the week they were due for the most part.

[little schooner]

useless ahh

[molten adder]

anyone wanna rate my why essay?

[rugged field]

nope

[fading socket]

noted

[molten adder]

🙂

[little schooner]

A rep came to my school and told me that they don't really care about the number

[rugged field]

👍

[rich sapphire]

uchi is just one out of so many schools, there r so many other options out there

[fading socket]

what?

[rugged field]

lol

[rich sapphire]

don’t put it on a pedestal

[molten adder]

fr but they arent uchicago (im jk)

[fading socket]

what do uchi want from me

[little schooner]

They care about the As, Bs, Cs

[glossy spoke]

reps

kind of lie

[little schooner]

The letter grades for each class

or the equivalent

[rugged field]

a good essay

[little schooner]

not the GPA number itself

[fading socket]

so good essay = decent chance

[molten adder]

i love the core and the ppl

[glossy spoke]

this is actually rlly good advice rn

[fading socket]

so uchi weighs the essay rather highly?

[molten adder]

i heard you can write ur way into uchicago unlike a lot of other schools

[molten adder]

fs

[rich sapphire]

ya it’s neat but also remember that tons of schools have cool classes & cool ppl

[fading socket]

https://tenor.com/view/gunna-fire-writing-heat-gif-25524005

me rn

[little schooner]

Yeah, probably the most important part of your app

once you pass the academic threshold

[fading socket]

and here i thought uchi was a mainly stats school

[little schooner]

nah

[fading socket]

the more you know i guess

[molten adder]

ik wherever i end up itll feel right with hindsight and ill achieve what i want

[little schooner]

it's probably the school that cares the least about them out of all the T20s honestly

[gloomy ferry]

yeah

[little schooner]

https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/tup9be/white_female_with_357_uw_gpa_gets_surprising/

3.57 UW GPA, EA ---> Accepted

TO as well

[fading socket]

holy shit

i have a chance

[little schooner]

That's some lifefuel right there

[fading socket]

i actually have a chance

what the fuck

[gloomy ferry]

im down

[little schooner]

"my essays were my winning pieces i think. This one was about my experiences in running a social media page for a Union, how I self published political theory guides online and actually got a lot of positive feedback, and started a theory book club."

[gloomy ferry]

Bro did you see the income bracket 💀💀💀💀

[little schooner]

Strategically speaking UChicago is probably the best school to apply to ED.

[fading socket]

900k is crazy

mightve been that

[gloomy ferry]

exactly

[molten adder]

holy shit lmao

[fading socket]

it was either here or johns hopkins and i dont like baltimore

[gloomy ferry]

Doesn't POTUS make like $400k officially

[glossy spoke]

This is making me really nervous

[gloomy ferry]

DM I'll check in a bit

[glossy spoke]

My ECs look like nothing

[little schooner]

Still, no legacy, + your family gotta donate some crazy money for it to actually make a difference

[gloomy ferry]

That person's awards is kinda cool

[little schooner]

Here's another crazy example: https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/comments/lk2rnz/full_ride_ed2_uchicago_dream_school_below_average/

[rugged field]

like REALLY good essay = decent chance yeah

[gloomy ferry]

Niche also very specific

And essays geared towards that niche

[little schooner]

Full ride, 3.64 UW GPA, TO

[fading socket]

THOSE ARE MY STATS

[rugged field]

lol

[fading socket]

I HAVE A 3.64

[rugged field]

💀

damn

[little schooner]

And submitted only one AP Exam

[fading socket]

im not proud of it

[rich sapphire]

<30k for 4 ppl is insanely low

[fading socket]

but it is what it is

[molten adder]

do yk what a *really * good essay looks like?

[rugged field]

yeah

[molten adder]

pls

[rugged field]

not telling tho

[molten adder]

pls

[rugged field]

[molten adder]

[rugged field]

[little schooner]

Trust me cuh I did not wanna waste my early app on REA Stanford i've done some research

[molten adder]

dont you wanna see me on campus next yr ⁉️

not that it would change anything at this point

[rugged field]

also im sry but question 1 doesnt matter

[fading socket]

?

[molten adder]

how lol

[rugged field]

they only use q1 to weed out ppl

[little schooner]

wild

[molten adder]

my extended essay solid but too personal to share

[gloomy ferry]

What is q1

[rugged field]

why uchicago

[little schooner]

How quirky was it

[molten adder]

why essay

[gloomy ferry]

oh thank goodness cuz mine was kinda cliche

[wind viper]

you can't demonstrate your intellectual ability through a why us essay so yeah

[molten adder]

idk how to gauge that tbh

[rugged field]

^^^

u cant be unique with it

[gloomy ferry]

my extended was a big fat red flag

literally

[fading socket]

so they use it to see if you love them or not?

[rugged field]

well a few exceptions

but no

[molten adder]

tbh i think mine was kinda unique

pls take a look 🙏

[rugged field]

nah

i cba

[molten adder]

fuck yo

😤

[rugged field]

just stop coping and move on

[valid fable]

I liked my extended essay way more than my "why us" one💀

[molten adder]

easy to say for you

[rugged field]

if uchicago accepts then u chilling

[rich sapphire]

u should verify keg

[molten adder]

same

[fading socket]

uchicago got the weirdest essay prompts tho tbh

i like em

[upper elm]

i

[fading socket]

but they're different

[upper elm]

used that

to beg for my life

after bombing midterm 1

[rugged field]

yeah u did tell me

[upper elm]

🙂

[rugged field]

lo;l

[upper elm]

we ball

[rugged field]

indeed we ball

[little schooner]

They sent to applicants an example of an essay they really liked and it was basically a "love letter" to UChicago. I believe they faced some backlash from that because the essay was insane (not in a good way).

[molten adder]

this the beginning of mine before it gets personal 😭

[rugged field]

ok

[molten adder]

oh fuck why did i look back at it

so much i would change

whatever

[rich sapphire]

stop looking at ur app

[gloomy ferry]

Yo aryan

[rich sapphire]

you’re going to stress yourself out

[gloomy ferry]

Your essay has v good writing

[molten adder]

i just read these first 2 and im buggin now

[rich sapphire]

close the tab

[molten adder]

thank you 🙏

[gloomy ferry]

But the middle paragraphs are too technical imo

[molten adder]

yeah i did

feel better already

[gloomy ferry]

Like the first one is personal but after that the personal connection kinda wanes

[fading socket]

damn watchin yall worry about your shit feel weird as hell cause i was just there

[gloomy ferry]

Did you alr submit?

[molten adder]

it comes back right after that but i dont wanna share personal part

[little schooner]

is this the why essay or the quirky one

[molten adder]

oh for why essay

[gloomy ferry]

I meant the why us essay

[little schooner]

was it more than 500 words?

[molten adder]

thats quirky

[molten adder]

yuh

[torn path]

someone from my school got accepted to brown, princeton and columbia for rd like

[little schooner]

I had 750 on mine lol

[gloomy ferry]

Lol same mine was 768

@molten adder did you ed

[molten adder]

it makes sense in context of my ECs

[gloomy ferry]

maybe

[molten adder]

except the core part i just wanted to talk about why i like core

[molten adder]

yeah

[gloomy ferry]

But you asked for my rating and I'd prolly give it like a 6 or a 7 by itself because writing is good but it's over technical and nothing stands out to me

[molten adder]

you talking about this part?

[gloomy ferry]

3 4 5 6 paragraphs

[molten adder]

🤷‍♂️

well see

[gloomy ferry]

yep we will

[molten adder]

i write in that style anyways

[gloomy ferry]

i did was so im pretty much screwed

[molten adder]

like to be technical

[molten adder]

yeah i think we just got diff ways of approaching it

[gloomy ferry]

in retrospect i should've applied as a creative writing major

[molten adder]

i applied econ so im fucked either way

and sociology

[little schooner]

I applied cs-math-econ in that order. Literally the 3 most competitive majors. we're cooked

[molten adder]

it is what it is

fuck its already 3 am

i gotta do this lit hw lmaooo

[little schooner]

I don't how much this matters

[molten adder]

it prob gets factored in

they fs reject econ majors more comp than creative writing they accept

[little schooner]

Some people have told me that CS is one of the easiest majors to get in at UChicago which I don't think it's true but I do think it might be easier than Econ

[little schooner]

yeah fs

[fading socket]

if you had to rank the why us essay, uchicago prompt essay, and personal statement in order of importance, how would you rank them?

rn im working on rewriting my personal statement

[molten adder]

extended, personal, why

[fading socket]

thanks

[little schooner]

uchicago prompt, common app, why essay. They're all really important tho, so I would say to focus on all three equally.

[fading socket]

is anyone up to read whatever ive got for my personal statement so far?

[molten adder]

extended shows how you think, personal who you are, why is general fit / interest

imo

[molten adder]

sure why not

but im harsh

[little schooner]

sure

[fading socket]

i like harsh

harsh is good

[molten adder]

bet

[gloomy ferry]

uchicago is more liberal arts focused ish so wouldn't it be easier to get in cs than history or smth idk

i applied law letters and society but i feel like creative writing would've been better for my profile cuz all my ecs and essays were about writing💀

[molten adder]

focusing on the idea i think its solid but the intro is too long you can fs condense it, also not sure where youre gonna take it

[lapis veldt]

yeah!

[little schooner]

I went crazy on the video it took me like a week to make it

[fading socket]

damn

what did you guys say in your videos?

i've got no idea how to really get around it

[little schooner]

Whatever it is needed for them to ignore me being TO

[little schooner]

Search for yt videos of past accepted students

I usually saw the brown Uni ones because they put a lot of emphasis on the video so their accepted students have cracked video portfolios

[lapis veldt]

mine was pretty lowkey, i showed a bunch of ridiculous pictures i'd taken over the past year and why they were important to me, and why memory collaging is important to me. got to show off how #quirky and #different i am and also explained an anomaly junior year grade

nearly everyone who's gotten in ED from my school has like turned on their webcam and showed off something or another, or talked about a hobby, so i didn't take it as seriously as like the 5 famous youtube vids with 10 hours of editing

i'd say if you have a vision for something elaborate go for it, but otherwise it's perfectly fine to use it to like, strategically highlight something that isn't obvious or stressed in the rest of your app

[fading socket]

noted

[glossy spoke]

um i made a isopod costume for halloween so i showed them the isopod costume

[lapis veldt]

BRO CAN I SEE???? wow.

[glossy spoke]

kquerky !!

hold on lemme check if this will

accidentally dox me

ill dm u

[molten adder]

i took them exploring to a couple of places (including uchicago) here are a couple photos i included

[valid fable]

I connected how I like combining foods that don't belong together to how I combine opposite academic interests

[molten adder]

yk i had to throw the chicago shirt on 😛

[grand marten]

showed fav vids in camera roll

[fading socket]

shit look professional i got no clue why youd ever worry about your app

[lapis veldt]

YESSS aesthetic pic gang

[lapis veldt]

the lighting is crazy

what are y'all applying for

[molten adder]

i ran into an abandoned greenhouse while recording lmao

[fading socket]

pre-med

[molten adder]

im not worried just nervous

[molten adder]

i stg theyre gonna think it was staged but that typa shit happens so often youd be surprised

theres so much around you

[lapis veldt]

yeahhh i mean like i think my app is great but it's such a lottery

never know what quotas or niches a school this competitive is trying to fill

[molten adder]

fr

[valid fable]

cs

[molten adder]

i think i put forward a strong app so if i dont get in it wasnt meant to be

[valid fable]

tbh I wasn't going to apply but I had a gut feeling I should

[lapis veldt]

i did not DARE... godspeed

[valid fable]

I wrote all my supplemental essays like 2 hours before the deadline lmao

[river crag]

Hey..... is there any word limit in the UCHICAGO supplemental essays?

[lapis veldt]

ok but like how long did you spend on your app???

seems like a lot

[molten adder]

a month total

not constant

[lapis veldt]

no but try to keep it within 1-2 pages

[molten adder]

but it was the first one i did

[valid fable]

I have 0 hope

[lapis veldt]

i have hope for u

are you EA

[molten adder]

ED

[river crag]

In words? 400 words is good or not??/

[molten adder]

you got it

[valid fable]

I am

[molten adder]

i heard longer ones are normally better but prob just correlation more than causation

[valid fable]

you're the one who's totally getting in

[valid fable]

my extended one had around 700 words

[lapis veldt]

yeah if it's concise and full it's alright. less means less for the AO to have to read

[molten adder]

dont say that 😭

[lapis veldt]

my uncommon one was ummm around 1k but i had a direction throughout

[valid fable]

they suggest 250-500 words for the why us one

[lapis veldt]

Unfortunately i am a nerd.

[molten adder]

mine was over 500

[lapis veldt]

same

but ostensibly they care the least about it for ED

they know we're committed to the school already

[valid fable]

but it's just a suggestion tho, I'm sure they wouldn't mind if your essay is good

I think they only say that so people won't stuff their essays with things that don't add to it

[lapis veldt]

yeah

[valid fable]

what prompt did you choose?

[river crag]

And what about the creative one?

[lapis veldt]

portmanteau

you?

[pearl bluff]

!chicago

[valid fable]

that's a cool one!!

[valid fable]

the tree email one

[lapis veldt]

yessssss

[lapis veldt]

what's your favorite tree

who was the subject

[valid fable]

can I dm you about it?

[lapis veldt]

🫡

[runic dock]

3 days to go!!!!

[grand marten]

!!!!!

good luck everyone 🫡

[runic dock]

what do you guys think is the

savior part

of your application

like the best part abt it

[lapis veldt]

haha

[lapis veldt]

definitely my recs and uncommon essay

also arts supplement

you?

[runic dock]

That's nice

I'd se my ECs definitely

that's what I put my heart and soul into all these years

hope it works out

for all of us

[fading socket]

i think im doing a weird one with my personal statement

decided to scrap the old one

i want something "qUirKY"

[torn path]

!uchicagoed

[gloomy ferry]

same lmao

[molten adder]

goodnight and good luck

or good morning

[gloomy ferry]

SAME my app is very very raw me so if i don't get in i would not fit at the school

[molten adder]

nearly 5 am

[gloomy ferry]

It's 3 pm for me lol

[gloomy ferry]

Law letters and society

[runic dock]

did anyone here apply for public policy

[river crag]

Can anyone care to review my WHY UCHICAGO essay (ED1 applicants)?

[runic dock]

yeah sure!

[torn path]

Can anyone review my personal statement? :))

[west imp]

what time does it come out

is it like 4 cst or smth

[frigid flare]

4 or 5 prob

[little schooner]

Sure, I'm EDI

[river crag]

dm plz

[fading socket]

anyone open to reading my personal statement draft

[thorn cloud]

sure

dm it

[glass bear]

go for it

[mossy frigate]

i just talked about a summer program i did and included some pics but i lowkey think it was rlly boring so idk

[mossy frigate]

these are gorgeous omg

[lost swallow]

if i get deferred from EA can i switch to ED2

[proper fulcrum]

yea

most EAs get deferred

[lost swallow]

inshallah i get deferred but i’m not so sure anymore after penn just humbled me

[little schooner]

They only reject like the bottom 10% of the applicant pool. I've seen very few EA rejects.

[surreal palm]

ready for my rejection

[upper elm]

same

[distant blade]

My school has about a 50% acceptance rate for ED (according to Naviance). Would my chances of acceptance be close to that or would they be closer to the ~15-20% people have predicted for overall ED? I realize admissions chances are more complex than that, but I'm just trying to simultaneously lower and manage my expectations properly

honestly it would probably be better for me to just not think about this but I am and I have been for weeks

[glossy spoke]

Penn??

Oh you prolly meant uchi

[fading socket]

What about ED2?

[molten adder]

guys ive lost all hope for uchicago\

[glass bear]

im STRESSED

[mossy frigate]

same

im so glad chicago didnt have an interview tho i have diabolical social anxiety

[molten adder]

i wish it did

normally confident w that stuff

[random lintel]

Real

[molten adder]

omg its gone 🤯

[lost swallow]

bro bottom 10% 😭 that’s me BRO 😭😭😭

[craggy nimbus]

its still there for me

[mossy frigate]

wait ru kidding

mines still there too 😭

[molten adder]

yeah im kidding lmao

[glossy spoke]

Bro please stop worrying abt results and go like read a book or do smth fun or smth 😭

[jaunty girder]

are y'all's decisions coming out today?

[mossy frigate]

uchicago ed/ea comes out on monday

[molten adder]

nah i’m stressin after seeing my friends decisions and getting deferred babson

[rain vector]

like the last school stg

[gloomy ferry]

just got deferred from gtown, uchicago is my only hope now 🙏

[worldly flax]

isnt UChicago supposed to be even more selective

[lapis veldt]

it's ok chicago's coming for u 🕯️🕯️🕯️

[hollow ibex]

hey man no portal astrology (idk what that even is)

guys i really hope i get accepted

i’d be happy with a deferral too

[reef grove]

fellas

is the tuition worth it

90k per year is crazy

[hollow ibex]

it’s uchicago tho

[reef grove]

it's 90k per year

[hollow ibex]

the loml of colleges

[reef grove]

thats like at least 10 big macs

[verbal kayak]

woah 10?

[mossy frigate]

i feel like most top colleges are similarly priced tho

although if i dont get in anywhere my state uni's 30k tuition would still be pretty sweet

[rugged field]

ye

just dont take like gender studies or some shit that wont give u money

[untold hill]

gender studies ≠ no money :(

[rich sapphire]

can do law school or nonprofit/advocacy work!!

[untold hill]

as long as ur active outside the classroom i think u can make a decent income with any major

though i am a high school junior talking out of their ass so

[untold hill]

tbh it could be an interesting background for a physician/healthcare worker as well

considering a good understanding of gender is getting more important for health care

[rugged field]

ok idgaf my point is make some money if ur concerned abt school fees

[rich sapphire]

ooh yea for sure

[reef grove]

you caaaaaaan ofc

but some things are always going to be harder than others

not to say something like gender studies is a completely useless major or anything but studying it at uchicago and making up for the costs later down the line is a lot harder with what careers you're going to be corraled into

it'll be more up to you to be successful and market the skills you've learned more than the major

[untold hill]

Yeah fs I won’t deny that it comes w challenges, i just thought “won’t make money” is a bit harsh

[reef grove]

i mean its a generalization sure but it's pretty valid the majority of the time to where mentioning to alternative success stories teeters on being fringe cases

[untold hill]

Maybe so

[glass bear]

you gotta abuse every scholarship known to man

[frigid flare]

i would eat up a gender studies degree tho

that would be so interesting

[upper elm]

LMFAO

[grand fern]

MINES STILL THERE

oh wait

u just gave me a heart attack

[molten adder]

sorry 💀

[gloomy ferry]

yeah but i put a lot more effort into uchicago lol

[rugged field]

indeed

uchicago saved me when i was in ruins 😭

[lapis veldt]

the amount of ivy defers i've talked to today who are trying to ed2 here is crazy

it's real

[fading socket]

i mean it do make sense

[frigid flare]

probably highest-ranked school with an ed2

[fading socket]

yeah

it was either here or johns hopkins and i preferred uchicago anyway

plus fuck it we ball for the uchi essays

[frigid flare]

this is so true

[fading socket]

ive completely scrapped my personal statement for RD as well

was really bad so im trying a new approach

[upper elm]

uohns jopkins hniversity

ujh.

[mossy frigate]

yep thats what im planning if when i dont get in on monday too

[fading socket]

i say you should have a little bit of optimism but be wary enough to prepare

[mossy frigate]

for sure, i did ED so i wanna see the result before tearing into my personal statement but ill def be writing RD supps over the weekend

[fading socket]

good idea

[little schooner]

Yea uchi, they love so much to defer EA applicants

[surreal palm]

how many ppl usually get in uchi ea?

[little schooner]

Bottom 10 is like 1350 submitted SAT and a 3.0 you're good

[little schooner]

They defer around 80%, accept like 2% and reject around 10 to 15%. Give or take 10 points en each section

[fading socket]

what about ED2

https://tenor.com/view/spiderman-dancing-gif-24233159

[little schooner]

I've acc heard that it's somewhat close to EDI. A bit lower than EDI and more competitive cuz of REA/SCEA deffered/rejected applicants

[upper tendon]

what why what

[little schooner]

Uchicago dropped 6 spots on the USNR, got into a fin aid scandal and also had safety issues this year, they can't get picky with EDI

[grand fern]

and yet

[upper tendon]

so they might have a higher acceptance rate?

i was freaking out for a second

but duke and yale were

...

not good

[thin sluice]

accept is 2%? 💀

[little schooner]

I've made some AP Lang research on this one lol. If you look at the a2c threads, you'll see that last cycle Duke had 300 comments, but this year last time I checked they had already surpassed 700 comments. This makes sense when compared to the general admit stats (last year 2027: 16.5% acc rate vs 12.5% this year). For colleges like yale that "maintained" a stable number of applications, the number of comments last year were 550 while this year they already have I think something close to 450 and the week hasn't ended yet. For UChicago two cycles ago they had 780 comments, last year 700, and right now the thread has 580.

[little schooner]

For EA yeah prolly, but they barely reject anyone too

[thin sluice]

hopefully they arent too picky lol

i will ED2 prob

[upper tendon]

y'all have to do this for AP Lang 😢 but thanks

[little schooner]

So I think they're gonna have less applicants this year. This makes sense because of the USNR rank drop, safety issues, loan scandals, and other unis like Duke and NU getting into the T10

[upper tendon]

is there a way to see the comments on a thread at a particular date?

[grand fern]

what was the loan scandal

[wind viper]

how does one connect this to ap lang lmao

[little schooner]

They can't lol, I believe the reason why the acc rate for EDII is also high is because they don't receive a lot of qualified EDI applicants

[thin sluice]

fair yeah

[little schooner]

I did lots of research for my ap lang essays

[thin sluice]

all the ivy rejects ED2 to uchicago lmao

[little schooner]

They basically got into trouble because someone demonstrated that they weren't actually need blind

[little schooner]

That's why it's a competitive pool

[grand fern]

ohh ok

[thin sluice]

i feel like for intls tho it will still be fucked up

[grand fern]

darus getting me all excited

[thin sluice]

intl applicants will remain the same

cause all of us shotgun like crazy

[little schooner]

I didn't want to waste my early round and went crazy on researching the college that gave the most ED boost

[grand fern]

u applied ed1 to uchicago right

[little schooner]

A2C 40%+ EDI acceptance rate as shown in a poll: https://www.reddit.com/r/ApplyingToCollege/s/XFzcMvTZtu

We know a2c kids are crazy so even if it was half of that number 20% is still more than any other T20.

[thin sluice]

wtf 💀

thats gotta be a lie

[little schooner]

Ye

[little schooner]

I always say there's a reason why they don't release numbers

[grand fern]

excitinggg

[thin sluice]

yeah i mean I calculated that with a graph of desmos

and

[little schooner]

Imagine if someone told them that a T10 has a 30% acceptance rate EDI.

[thin sluice]

it made sense for it to be super high

[little schooner]

It's gotta be that high also because of the yield rate

[thin sluice]

i didnt ED1 cause i need full aid and am intl

[thin sluice]

also isnt 80% of their class for early rounds

86

[rich sapphire]

overall last yr was 4.4% for all rounds so idt 20% is accurate

[little schooner]

Uchicago has the highest yield rate (88%) out of all T20s, even more than MIT. That just doesn't happen because of magic

[little schooner]

Yeah around that

[grand fern]

ive never seen snow so hopefully i get in so i can do that 😭

[thin sluice]

their RD is like 1-2% lmao

[little schooner]

From which country?

[thin sluice]

Saudi Arabia, but ethnically Indian

i have indian citizenship

[rich sapphire]

i expect to see all of you guys accepted on mon if the AR is actually that high 🫣

[little schooner]

For EDI it probably is. They receive 3 - 4k apps for around 800 spots.

[thin sluice]

its a bloodbath for intls omg

everybody is getting rejected

[rich sapphire]

they do not release the # they accept per round

[grand fern]

what would u rate ur uchicago experience

[rich sapphire]

amazing

[thin sluice]

man i would kill to get in

[grand fern]

ahh really that makes me happy

[little schooner]

I know they don't but of 15k applications they receive EA + EDI (this was a number confirmed by nondorf) 3-4k is realistically the most accurate number we can pick for now

[rich sapphire]

so you randomly picked it👍

regardless, good luck and i expect to see you getting in on monday ;)

[little schooner]

There was a poll here of who was EA and EDI and remember that half were EDI and half EA, and this is the UChicago thread so there's a bunch more EDI applicants here than anywhere else.

[rich sapphire]

polls are not accurate lol

on here esp

voluntary

[little schooner]

I wouldn't say so. Lots of people have been trying to get UChicago's acceptance rate and all of them got around the same numbers for EDI.

[little schooner]

Thx, hope to see you too

[rich sapphire]

self-reported polls are never an accurate way to get stats

[little schooner]

It is what we have, but there's definitely more EA apps than EDI.

[rich sapphire]

i’m a student here lol

[little schooner]

Yeah that's why I said that

I've also looked into my school Naviance and out of 20 people that applied most have done EA and no one EDI. Ik it's just my school, but it's fairly accurate to say that chicago is a very popular EA school

[glossy spoke]

Not the flood of new ppl after the 13th and 14th

Hello

[gloomy ferry]

lmao yeah

bro i just wanna get in and my life will be complete but i applied ea ughhhhhh

[little schooner]

They care more about the way you think and show fit than your stats

[random pagoda]

This makes no sense to me; I get they care about yield rate but they still wanna choose the ppl they think would best fit their school anyways why would they make an effort to only accept like 5% of specifically EA applicants

[gloomy ferry]

yeah I'd like to think i showed that well

[untold hill]

Yeah I'm curious as to where these figures came from 😭😭

[random pagoda]

Yeah I just dont get how if they think an EA applicant fits their school rly well and think theyd accept an offer why they would defer them, only for the risk of it happening again rd to still exist

Like take an ED person in lieu of them

Like I find it hard to believe they accept <5% of EA applicants

[verbal kayak]

shit i regret EAing

[untold hill]

Dw you have a chance of getting in rd still

I'm pretty sure both me and Caitlin did actually

[verbal kayak]

prbly shouldve saved chicago for ed2 or smt

[random pagoda]

Why?

[verbal kayak]

i mean what u said makes sense logically

why would chicago take an ea over ed

[fading socket]

So then it ain’t so bad for ED2

Competitive but not crazy competitive

Probably a blessing I’m doing ED2, because I learned from my REA mistakes

And this is prob my best chance at a T20 school

[random pagoda]

Idk I feel extremely strong about my application but it must makes me feel bad when I see like “5% for EA just bc of yield rate”

Like is that not stupid as fuck

Why would they stick to proportions and not just base it off quality of application and demonstrated interest

Like ED is not the only way to show interest in a school, some ppl just dont want a binding decision

[verbal kayak]

after ea rejection

time to ed2

[little schooner]

It's all due to the legality of applying ED. ED is a legal contract meaning that they're gonna have a 100% Yield rate in that round. Even if an applicant was more than qualified, Chicago might not accept them because they know Chicago might not be their top choice. Yield Rate is important for rankings so colleges want to have the highest rate they can.

[little schooner]

It's one of the best if not the best path to take to get into a T20 at this point of the season

[upper elm]

uchicago vanderbilt jhu washu r the notable ed2s

[fading socket]

Yeah it just seems best for me so I’m going to try and make my essays + ECs + LoRs art

[upper elm]

uchicago best 🙂

uc hicago

[fading socket]

UChicago the supreme ED2

[upper elm]

fr

never change, uchicago

😭

[little schooner]

Yeah and they've been called out for that, this whole process is a crapshot.

[little schooner]

They're all good options but I think JHU might be too much of a crapshot.

[random pagoda]

Ok sure but:
Hypothetical: You’re a UChicago admissions officer deciding between an ED and an EA candidate

The ED candidate shows less interest and knowledge ab/in the school in their essays/applications, and the EA one shows more

Despite the EA one not being in a binding conract, I dont see why they wouldnt pick the person whk would fit way better AND would still very likely end up going there

Its not gonna tank the yield rate if a strong interest shows in the application

[little schooner]

That's a good point, and I'm almost sure they have EDII because they simply don't receive too many great apps during the EDI round and they know a lot of EA applicants have great apps, so they just defer them in order to see who actually has UChicafo as their top choice and who doesn't.

If you show fit in your EA app you have a good chance, simply because the majority of EA applicants don't show a lot of interest and merely apply EA because it's one of the only T20s that offer that option.

[random pagoda]

Such a hard truth to swallow; I got deferred from Brown ED today and Im like panicking bc if I dont get into chicago EA my entire winter break is gonna be an insanely stressful race to get like 12 other schools worth of essays done

So insufferable

And winding

[fading socket]

For me I think I’m going to apply to six schools over winter break including UChicago

I don’t have amazing stats but I’m going to try and make creative essays that cook

Hopefully that helps

[random pagoda]

Yeah that could be true as well. I think my UChicago application is basically perfect (imo only obv) and shows like as much interest as it possibly could

[little schooner]

I was planning on EDing brown but didn't do it at the end because apparently ED Brown is like the opposite of Chicago because ED applicants at brown compose around 20% of the freshmen class while for Chicago, although there's no official numbers, through polls we know it's at least more than 70% (ED1 + ED2)

[random pagoda]

So I do feel good ab it

Statistics are scary tho

[random pagoda]

Yeah Brown only accepted 14% of ED ppl and only deferred 16%, meaning 70% got flat out rejected

I feel lucky to have been deferred honestly

[random pagoda]

Good luck!

[little schooner]

Uchicago cares more about fit than your stats fs: https://www.reddit.com/r/collegeresults/s/FKRR2WqmEp

[little schooner]

It's insane. Cornell also said that they're lowering the number of ED accepted students for the next years, starting this cycle. These colleges are crazy honestly.

[random pagoda]

Insufferable

[little schooner]

Also take into account that the ivy leagues are D1 colleges so there's lots of athletes accepted through EDI, compared to UChicago which is a DIII school and doesn't give a massive boost if you're recruited. So being DIII is just one more hook that doesn't guarantee admission.

There's a few exceptions ofc but there's few athletes compared to other colleges. Also a reason why Chicago might not be as recognized as say, Columbia.

[runic dock]

ED1: 1️⃣
EA: 2️⃣

[little schooner]

They did a poll like 2 days ago. Half were EDI and half EA. Considering that this is the UChicago thread, there's a lot more EA applicants than EDI fs

[runic dock]

Ohh

Is there anyone here who thinks the weakest part of their application is the school they come from lol

[little schooner]

Yeah absolutely

[runic dock]

because no ones well aware of it

[little schooner]

My school has only gotten one acceptance in a decade

[runic dock]

Hahaha my school has gotten no acceptances from here for sure

But then again not a lot of people apply here from my school anyway

very few

once in every 2 to 3 years

[little schooner]

I've talked to people from feeder schools and their naviance shows that for ED, people with as low as a 3.4 get in.

[runic dock]

Jesus christ

[little schooner]

Are you from the west coast?

[runic dock]

I really hope the school isn't what they take into consideration

Nopee I'm an international student

[little schooner]

They might because they know the rigor of these wealthy feeder schools

[little schooner]

Which country

I'm also technically intl

[runic dock]

India

Wby

[little schooner]

Cuz I don't have U.S. citizenship but have lived in the U.S. for 3 years

[runic dock]

Ohh

I saw that uchicago compares your application based on the geomarket you're a part of

so for example if you go to an American high school in shanghai

[little schooner]

If you're from a recognized IB school you should be fine

[runic dock]

you'll be pooled with the American students

Not the ones from shanfhai

But that's very rare

[little schooner]

I also saw Chloe Tan's video lol

[runic dock]

Hahahaha

She made me

OBSESSED

with uchicago

[little schooner]

Ik

Her essays were crazy too

[runic dock]

Yeah for sure

Even her why us essay was

so quirky

[little schooner]

Ik

Who thinks of Gargoyles for an essay

She says that that was the reason why she wrote about gargoyles, but still, you need a crazy level of creativity for some of these essays

[glossy spoke]

same as me! i hate this situation

lol i wrote abt the caffeine postcard they sent me as promotional material

i got lucky bcs im interested in chem

[fading socket]

Thanks

Hopefully I can lock in and clutch up or else I ain’t going to a T20

[little schooner]

Nice, which country are you from?

[fading socket]

So if the stats are mid but the essays/LoRs/fit with UChicago is good, you have a chance

I like that

[little schooner]

Yeah basically. As I said, I've seen people with as low as a 3.4 get accepted ED, so there's a chance fs.

[fading socket]

hard part is figuring out how to craft the essays just right

[glossy spoke]

korea

east asian

[gloomy ferry]

i really want to get in ea because my parents won't let me edii and i know if i get deferred, with how competitive the edii pool will be im not getting in

[glossy spoke]

not me staring at the little graph on maialearning like itll change if i open it for the 328372832th time

[reef grove]

it would be ok but more like minor material

my ta for my uchicago summer program was a bio major double minor in gender studies and english

which was really cool

64%

[torn path]

whered you get that

[reef grove]

i made it up

[verbal kayak]

from being optimistic

[gloomy ferry]

lol yeah we're not blind😭

[reef grove]

i made it up

[little schooner]

made sure I included the prompt

These applications are long as hell, there's no way that the majority of applicants do not have at least a couple of errors somewhere

[torn path]

!UCHICAGO

[upper tendon]

i think that command only works in #🤖-bot-commands

[gloomy ferry]

no they just haven't set it up cuz we don't have a specified time

[verbal kayak]

will they give us a specified time?

[gloomy ferry]

they might but idk

[verbal kayak]

at least we have a date

not just mid december

[gloomy ferry]

lol yeah

[upper tendon]

do they ever actually give the time?

[shadow drum]

!uchicago

[shadow drum]

Which is

?

[verbal kayak]

dec 18th i think

[rugged field]

silly chicago

[river flare]

feeling super demotivated

if uchicago doesn’t pull through i’ll throw myself off a cliff

[lost swallow]

lowkey same

[steep vine]

same everyone got their decisions. i used to be pretty confident in my application but i applied ea as a low income international and what im hearing now about ea applicants scares the shit out of me

[river flare]

yo watching everyone on #🎓-commitments feels like a punch in the gut 😭

[steep vine]

for real…i took a gap year too

🥲

[river flare]

though i’m sure there are still chances in RD but the fear is real

[lost swallow]

i just want a deferral

[river flare]

yea that would be neat too

acceptance is where it’s at though 💪💪

[steep vine]

im scared to get a decision during rd

[river flare]

literally

i would throw up out of rejection anxiety

[rain vector]

...this is astrology

[lost swallow]

!uchicago

how does this not exist yet!!!

@quiet dawn

[quiet dawn]

im just a girl

[lost swallow]

dm me immediately

or @shadow drum

he might need it more

[shadow drum]

What

Bro stfu

I'm cooking rn irl

I don't edate

[lost swallow]

cooking what lil bro

[shadow drum]

Some veg kebabs

[lost swallow]

oh actual cooking

[shadow drum]

Nah I'm jp

I'm rizzin

Truss

[lost swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/jose-mourinho-laugh-giggle-laughing-spurs-gif-16212891

[quiet dawn]

💀

[solid flame]

btw we have no idea so these numbers are all estimated lol

2% is not true

probably 10%

[frigid flare]

we don't have a time

[lost swallow]

dang

[vast sand]

deferred from mit, here we come uchi

[gloomy ferry]

real lol

[mossy frigate]

same lmao cant do this anymore

[mystic hinge]

did you ed?

[vast sand]

no

[mystic hinge]

oh rd?

[vast sand]

so i already know its over for me lmao

no i did EA

[mystic hinge]

oh

wanna read my essay?

i did ED

is it over for me

[vast sand]

if you did ED than prob not

i just say that it's over for me because uchi EA acceptance rate is hella low

and i would read your essay, but i'm already struggling with my own so i don't think i could help you in a meaningful way, sorry

[mystic hinge]

all good but getting deferred by MIT is crazy

you def cooked on oyur essays

[vast sand]

yeah lmfao i know

[lost swallow]

i’m also ea

[vast sand]

that's why i have a bunch of other applications

[lost swallow]

i just want to switch to ed2 lol

[solid flame]

if i get deferred on monday i'll get a bit of hope that im a competitive applicant just in general

[lost swallow]

same

[mystic hinge]

im literally having a panic attack since Thursday becuz every1 getting into good ass schools in my grade and i dont want to be left behind

[solid flame]

me too

i go to a competitive school but no one really expects me to get into a top school

so i want to prove them wrong

[mystic hinge]

yeah does ea also come out on Monday?

[mossy frigate]

yep both

[mystic hinge]

do you wanna read my essays ik theres nothing i can do now but still

[mossy frigate]

same 😭 my friends got into princeton and dartmouth and i rlly dont want to go to my safety

[mossy frigate]

sure im kinda curious what other ppl write for uncommon too

ur ed1?

[mystic hinge]

yes

[upper tendon]

so mit was a bloodbath as per usual...

[vast sand]

eh it was more of a small scuffle

hardly anyone on here got rejected

[upper tendon]

discord was okay literally everyone from my school who applied got rejected

half of them are crying on the class whatsapp group and the other half are planning to ed2 to uchicago lol

[frigid flare]

but there were like 23 deferrals 💀

[civic drift]

when does ed2 come out

[mossy frigate]

damn the ed2 pool is gonna be crazy 💀 im gonna switch to wellesley after ed1

[mossy frigate]

mid february

[upper tendon]

idk march maybe

[upper tendon]

oop

[civic drift]

Dang

Are u guys all ED2

[upper tendon]

i mean there is a reason they got rejected from MIT so idk

[upper tendon]

ED1 here

[mossy frigate]

tru

im ed1 as well

damn uchicago for releasing so late

[civic drift]

I’m ed1 too

[runic dock]

guys 51 hours ish to go (most likely)

[upper tendon]

honestly like if MIT can do it why can't uchicago

[upper tendon]

aah

[civic drift]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[runic dock]

What time did they release it last year

[upper tendon]

lets hope we all get in

[upper tendon]

4 pm ct i think

[civic drift]

Bro ima be at school

[upper tendon]

I'm gonna be sleeping 💀

[solid flame]

oh coool, i'll check it right when i get home then. fun

[mossy frigate]

im thinking of pulling an all nighter before and waking up at 4pm so i dont have to spend a day in agony

[glossy spoke]

Thats so smart bcs then I’d be too tired to feel sad if i dont get accepted

[mystic hinge]

any1 of yuo submit the video profile?

[upper tendon]

I did not and I regret it

[mystic hinge]

i didnt either but we can still submit it right?

[upper tendon]

Yeah it won't really have an effect on decisions now

[glossy spoke]

i submitted

[lean kestrel]

i didn’t

[lost swallow]

i did

[lapis veldt]

yeah

[upper elm]

i did

[mystic hinge]

well im screwed

[frigid flare]

i did but it's very not good

[lost swallow]

they don’t expect it to be good

[silent horizon]

mine was so bad I did it the day of the deadline 💀

i thought it really was optional so i didnt do it before

[fading socket]

do you do the video before submitting the whole app or is there a seperate deadline?