Tried Data Migration & Swapping SSDs, but doesn't appear to have changed?

[zenith copper]

Spec List:
-Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700K CPU @ 3.80GHz
-MSI MPG Z490 Gaming Edge WIFI ATX Gaming Motherboard
-NVIDIA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti
-G.Skill TridentZ RGB Series 32 GB (2 x 16 GB)
-Samsung SSD 970 EVO Plus 2TB SSD, Samsung SSD 990 Pro With Heatsink 4TB SSD
-Dark Rock Pro 4 CPU fan, ARCTIC P12 PWM PST (5 pack) fans

For a few months now, I've been having issues with my new Samsung SSD 990 Pro disappearing from my computer (not showing up in Device Manager, Devices & Drives in File Explorer, or Samsung Magician app; showing a "Location is not available" error message). As per an earlier thread, I was given the advice to migrate everything from my 970 EVO Plus to the 990 Pro, and swap which m2 ports they were inserted in, in order to test whether or not it was an issue with the SSD itself, or my motherboard and/or CPU.

Because of life stuff, and just needing to put aside enough time to backup and transfer everything and messing in the guts of my desktop, I was only able to switch things around today (minus getting an enclosure or such).

Now, I've run into a new problem, in that I'm not sure the SSDs were switched correctly? I'm seeing three Local Disks in File Explorer, C:, D:, and E:. I would've thought that changing which SSD was inserted into which M2 port would mean that C: would have the storage space of the 990 instead of the 970, and vice versa for E: or D:, but the storage space appear to be unchanged from before I turned off my computer.

In addition, I am unable to access D: in any way. I have no idea what it corresponds to, I don't have a third SSD or anything.

Any help and advice is greatly appreciated, I'm very much uncertain how to proceed from here.

[cinder wigeon]

Why didn't you just flip them and see if the other nvme dropped?

And not bother transferring.

[zenith copper]

Addendum because I was making the thread on desktop before, here are photos of the SSDs in the swapped ports, I'm not sure if the 990 is supposed to be flashing like that

[zenith copper]

My logic was like, if there's important program files and stuff necessary for windows to run on the 970, then I should transfer things to the 990 so that I can actually turn the computer on and not risk things getting screwed up

[cinder wigeon]

I mean at this point if you corrupted windows because the nvme dropped it would probably be a far easier fix..

Also no this isn't how drives work. They are labeled according too their drive address so their letter doesn't change just what's on them if you clone it.

[zenith copper]

I see

so uh

what should I be looking for then if the 990 kept disappearing when in the second M2 slot, but was then switched to the first M2 slot

[cinder wigeon]

D is probably a partition created from whatever clone you did.

Since you can't access it, it's pretty much useless and you would need to format the drive to fix it.

[zenith copper]

you mean just formatting the 990, not everything else?

[cinder wigeon]

Uuhh idk..

Oh d is the recovery thing for windows

Normally labeled as recovery though so idk why it's Like that.

[zenith copper]

like, the advice I was given before was to clone the OS to the 990 and switch it to the top slot in order to see if it was a motherboard issue

like, if the pins were bent or something

I've admittedly lost the plot just a tad, it's been maybe two months since I was getting help in the earlier thread.

[cinder wigeon]

Valid... It's so you could boot from the 990 and hopefully the other drive would drop and not take windows with it

At this point.. Id just switch them and Yolo windows because this sounds very above your pay grade

[zenith copper]

did I do it right, then? 'cause what I did was use the Data Migration function in Samsung Magician, but if that didn't necessarily duplicate the OS...

[cinder wigeon]

I have no idea take the normal boot drive out and go onto your bios and see if you can boot still

[zenith copper]

like, my confusion I suppose is getting an unexpected result after swapping the SSDs around, thinking I'd see 3.63 TB in C: and 1.81 TB in D: or E:

[zenith copper]

ok, you mean the 970 in this case, correct?

[cinder wigeon]

Yes

[zenith copper]

I'm not sure how the computer is determining which drive to load from, if that makes any sense

ok, the 970 is in the second m2 as of this moment, lemme power off and switch to mobile and figure this out

[cinder wigeon]

Well if only 1 drive has windows in it, it doesn't have a choice

[zenith copper]

ok, one moment

Ok, I'm in bios, what do I do next to check if it can still boot

[cinder wigeon]

Sorry was busy at work, you need to fidn your boot list.

See if windows is in there.

[zenith copper]

Np, gotcha

Found this screen

[cinder wigeon]

Holy nightmare.. Idk how to see just the boot devices it currently sees in msi

Easiest way would be try to boot and see if it finds something as it runs through all the boot options.

Could take a while..

[zenith copper]

Does this help any?

[cinder wigeon]

No as it doesn't show current connected stuff just a list of all possible stuff

[zenith copper]

So like this?

[cinder wigeon]

Nope as it doesn't show if it's a boot drive or not lol.. There should be like a boot tab that let's you literally select different stuff with the mouse or arrow keys and enter will make it instantly try to boot there.

@heavy loom you know how msi works

[heavy loom]

ah yes msi

wat happa

[cinder wigeon]

Boot list

How find

[heavy loom]

shit that was a while ago

hol up i gotta find the info

[cinder wigeon]

Don't you have an msi board..

[heavy loom]

yes

but i did all this in like april

[cinder wigeon]

Well one thing Asus does right.. It's a fking button..

Hit f6 brings up boot list.

[zenith copper]

I tried the classic "[computer problem] reddit" Google search, and I'm seeing either f10 or f11 at startup

[cinder wigeon]

Isn't that to get into the bios?

[zenith copper]

No, I got into bios via the del key

[cinder wigeon]

Well I mean you could do it that way if it has an out of bios boot list at start screen..

But I mean you could just make it go through the options also.

It's gonna try the nvme first..

So if the nvme doesn't work within like 10 seconds it doesn't have windows on it.

[zenith copper]

Okie doke, one moment

I got this

[cinder wigeon]

Yes hit enter.

[heavy loom]

arent you trying to boot off of the 990?

[cinder wigeon]

Or whatever the button is.

[heavy loom]

ye its enter

[zenith copper]

ok, everything appears to have loaded correctly

[cinder wigeon]

So you are in windows?

[zenith copper]

Yeah

[cinder wigeon]

Kay so now you need to turn pc off, put the 970 in questionable slot, make sure that your boot order loads off the 990 and not the 970

And then go into windows and see if it drops.

[zenith copper]

gotcha

[cinder wigeon]

If windows just dies while booted off the 990 it's the drive, if it doesn't and the 970 doesn't get lost either uuhh...

Well then we have a problem.

[zenith copper]

and just so we're all on the same page, it usually takes about one to two weeks to drop, from what I was seeing. Like, I mapped it out, whenever I would take the 990 out of the second m2 slot and put it back in, it wouldn't disappear until a certain amount of time has passed

from a sticky note on my desktop: 9/05 9/13 10/05 10/07 10/15 10/28 11/14

[cinder wigeon]

That's annoying af and seems like the controller is overheating too me..

Were you slamming the drive with transfers on those days?

[zenith copper]

I don't believe so. I stored a lot of .cbr/.cbz and some mp4 files on there, but I didn't think downloads took up that much energy, since I'd also do it on the 970 in the main slot

like, I figured if I accidentally fell asleep while I was watching a twitch stream and/or playing Elden Ring, the excess heat would come from there

(this was also a factor in my hesitancy to switching the ssds around at first, since the 970 had no heatsink but was covered by a "Shield Frozr" in the top m2 slot, and the 990's heatsink jutted out enough that you couldn't put the cover on top if it was swapped)

also, brb, about to put the 970 back in

Ok, it's loaded up ok, but the 970 isn't showing up in Devices and Drivers in File Explorer, lemme restart

Wait, it's showing up in Samsung Magician tho

[dusk violet]

alright, let me clarify some things:

1. swapping the location of the m.2 drives does not actually change their drive letters. C: will still be C:, D: will still be D:, etc. what actually changes is the Drive number when you run disk management. top slot would be Drive 0 then Drive 1, Drive 2, etc. some boards have this inverted or mixed depending on the chipset configuration.

2. M.2 drives suddenly disappearing from your drives list and devices list could mean either (1) the drive is failing or (2) the m.2 slot being used is failing

all that being said, the best way to diagnose is to swap the locations of the two m.2 drives. your fill system and anything you have installed won’t be affected because of #1 above. and by swapping the location of the drives, u’ll be able to diagnose if it’s the m.2 drive or the m.2 slot that’s failing. if the issue follows the drive regardless of which slot it is plugged in to, it’s the drive. if the issue is now on the other drive, then it’s the m.2 slot.

[zenith copper]

I swapped the drives, and the 970 (now in the problem slot) isn't showing up in File Explorer, but is showing up in Samsung Magician

[dusk violet]

then it’s likely the m.2 slot is the issue

[zenith copper]

I'm not sure why that m2 slot would be failing, I hadn't used it until a few months ago when I first got the new ssd

[heavy loom]

faulty board?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

shit happens

[zenith copper]

Somewhere along the way someone mentioned the fact that my CPU doesn't quite match everything else, so I'm running at slower speeds, or something?

[dusk violet]

shit happens. it could be a faulty board from the get go and you’re only finding it out now

[cinder wigeon]

I mean you could have a bad pin connection from the cpu too the chipset.. But that would involve removing the cpu and knowing what your are looking for..

And we are back too I think you are out of your depth lol.

[zenith copper]

ay yi yi

[cinder wigeon]

Could try just reseting the cpu.. But I thought u tried that..

[dusk violet]

that would usually throw more errors but that’s totally a possibility

[cinder wigeon]

Reseating*

[zenith copper]

reseating? I can't quite afford to get a new cpu right now

[cinder wigeon]

Might not notice the other errors..

No you just take it out of the socket and put it back lol.

[zenith copper]

hm. I did take a brief look at the CPU earlier when I was removing the fan to get at the top m2 slot, and the thermal paste looked a bit old

otherwise, I couldn't say if anything was wrong there

[cinder wigeon]

I doubt you somehow killed the chipset driver in the cpu due to heat.. You'd have far bigger problems..

Like thermal throttling into oblivion.

[dusk violet]

1. remove cooler
2. take cpu out from board
3. clean cpu and cooler
4. check board/cpu for any bent pins
5. put cpu back
6. put thermal paste
7. put cooler back
8. see if issue persists

“reseating” is technically only steps 2 and 5.

[zenith copper]

ok, that'll also take me a little bit of time. getting thermal paste is just a matter of ordering from amazon I suppose, but I couldn't say how I'd clean off the old thermal paste without worry that I'd mess up somewhere

[cinder wigeon]

You use rubbing alcohol

[zenith copper]

that I can do, but like, later when I don't have dinner to make

[cinder wigeon]

So it won't matter.

Walgreens has 91% and it's like.. 5$ for a quart of it..

Which is WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH.

[dusk violet]

you can clean the cpu while it’s still in the socket. some paper towel and alcohol is all you need. q-tips for the sides if u wanna be extra

[cinder wigeon]

Also thermal paste is non conductive so it doesn't matter if it gets placed.

Places*

Jsut look ugly.

[zenith copper]

ok, I was wondering if I needed any specific cleaning tools or thingy to put the rubbing alcohol on

[cinder wigeon]

Nah just paper towel or blue shop towels if you wanna avoid lint.

[zenith copper]

I was picturing messing up by doing an "xbox like water" thing with the rubbing alcohol, lol

[cinder wigeon]

Could use a microfiber towel you don't care about also, what I do

Since I have hundreds..

[dusk violet]

nope. u literally just wipe the old crusty paste off. the alcohol helps to make the old paste to easily come off and alcohol evaporates quick, hence why it’s used

[cinder wigeon]

91% isopropyl is what you want BTW..

Or any isopropyl.

[zenith copper]

Gotcha

[cinder wigeon]

Doesn't truly matter just 91% evaporates quicker.

[dusk violet]

u can technically use a damp cloth in a pinch BUT you have to ensure the water has completely evaporated

alcohol is really just so you don’t waste time waiting for it to dry

[cinder wigeon]

Normal tap water also has metal in it which can lead to bad things happening but that's an extreme.

Like you just lobbed the mb into the dish washer extreme.

[dusk violet]

and yeah 91% is best. 70% works just takes a bit longer to dry although it’s great when you have to reuse old paste LOL

99% dries wayyyyy too fast

[cinder wigeon]

Yeah 99% is impossible to clean stuff with that doesn't come off nicely..

It's ok for like normal glue.. But thermal paste doesn't like to come off.

[dusk violet]

i only use it as a dispersant coz it’s gone in 2 secs after applying lmao

[cinder wigeon]

I don't even use it, waste of my effort lol not even on car contacts.

But that's teh jist, if the mb is stil in warranty I'd honestly just rma it and move on with my life.

[dusk violet]

i use it as a “flush”, really good at getting rid of water and moisture

[zenith copper]

The thing is, the mb warranty ran out in like, August

[cinder wigeon]

That sucks.

[zenith copper]

Like, right after I had already sent the new ssd out under it's warranty and got an all clear

[cinder wigeon]

I won't suggest degenerate things but someone else might that's not a fan of Amazon.

[dusk violet]

lmao

you can also reach out to the manufacturer. they might honor it given that you’ve tried to troubleshoot it and even RMA’d a different part

just be nice to the agent. sometimes they do a “one time exemption” as they call it

[cinder wigeon]

Clearly 8th figured it out

[zenith copper]

I'd definitely try and do that, although I tried going on their website before and could not make heads or tails of where to find the right line to call

[zenith copper]

Like, I didn't even reach the point where I'd shout "direct representative" into the phone call

[cinder wigeon]

2nd number

[zenith copper]

Thx

[dusk violet]

lmao i’ve seen it done and worked, but like you i also won’t suggest it

[zenith copper]

I think I need to wait a week before I can call that number, they're only mon-fri & 9-6, and I usually do stuff like this on Friday since I don't work that day

[zenith copper]

ok, I restarted the computer after reinserting the 970 and leaving to get a milkshake and coming back to make a burger, but it's still absent from file explorer.

[cinder wigeon]

I'd assume the slot is dead.

[zenith copper]

I have no idea how, it was working with the 990 earlier

that's how I was able to migrate all the data

[cinder wigeon]

Because you removed it and that was the straw that broke the camels back.

[zenith copper]

yeah, but I've removed it a bunch of times, in order to put it back in again

[cinder wigeon]

Did it 1 too many times

[zenith copper]

hm

[dusk violet]

think of it like, a screw. if u screw it in and back out repeatedly over and over, it will eventually become loose enough that u don’t even need a screwdriver to turn it fully.

in your m.2 slot, it might have been a broken trace/path, like a crack. sometimes the conditions are enough to push the separated ends back together and enough for them to make contact, allowing connection, and making the m.2 slot work.

the more you mess with it, the more the gap on the crack widens as the rough edges of the 2 ends grind against each other. this will be unnoticeable to the naked eye but could be enough to not make contact nor create a very nstable connection.

not saying this is exactly what happened but one of the many possible reasons to why it sometimes work, sometimes it doesn’t, and now it’s no longer working. see pic for a visual

[zenith copper]

I see

[zenith copper]

the weird thing is is that it still shows up in Samsung Magician, recording of the average temperature and all

[zenith copper]

Ok, here's a new rub, my computer shut down and restarted when I wasn't looking (doing laundry), I check, and not only has it booted from the 970, the 990 is missing

And I lost like 5 hours in Elden Ring because it loaded from an older save from before I did the data migration

This is getting screwy

[cinder wigeon]

@dusk violet so here's my thought.. The pins for the m.2 lanes on the cpu are legit just all shot or the cpu isn't all the way down what you got?

[zenith copper]

The CPU should be back in place, tho the fan might be slightly if imperceptibly loose since I had to take it out to get to unscrewing the first m2

[cinder wigeon]

Did you reseat it in the socket already?

If so either the cpu itself is shot or the mb is shot.

Because drives in both cases are now dropping and I think the bad port took the 990 pro with it.

[zenith copper]

It was in the first m2 socket(?), but like, the mb is still working

[cinder wigeon]

Clearly it's not if the drive dropped.

[dusk violet]

i’m leaning towards the board being faulty, might be the slot’s pins or traces have micro cracks hence the intermittent issue

[zenith copper]

I have to double check, I was gonna open up the computer and see if I could boot from the 990

[cinder wigeon]

But now the primary slot died.

[zenith copper]

But the thing is the 970 was missing before

[cinder wigeon]

Not the secondary, and the pc booted from the secondary that was missing.

[dusk violet]

one way to test: nvme external drive enclosure and plug via usb. see if that works without issues

[cinder wigeon]

True, transfer rates will be fucking abysmal lol.

[dusk violet]

yea but it’s only a test

[zenith copper]

Where I'm confused is, if it couldn't detect the 970 before in the second slot, how'd it get detected again anyway

[cinder wigeon]

Because fuck you that's how.

[zenith copper]

I'm sorry

[cinder wigeon]

Electricity does weird things.

[zenith copper]

Or wait, was that a fuck you to the motherboard

[cinder wigeon]

No the mb says fuck you.

[zenith copper]

Gotcha

[dusk violet]

because if it’s a micro crack, it will be intermittent. and it can fix it self and fuck itself on its own

[cinder wigeon]

I think the micro cracks in the lanes of the second slot fucked your 990, so now that drive is toast.

And will jsut slowly keep dying.

[zenith copper]

I still have to check if I can get it to show up again

[dusk violet]

just get a drive enclosure and plug in via USB to test it out

[cinder wigeon]

Really the last way we have to test tbh..

[zenith copper]

I'll do that, what's the best drive enclosure in this instance

[cinder wigeon]

Otherwise the only recourse both of us have is buy a new cpu and board to just eleminate the problem..

I mean any of them will do you are just looking to test a drive not a tally use it.

[zenith copper]

But also, wait, will it even fit with the heatsink. I was gonna take it out of the heatsink at one point but I didn't want to break the warranty

[cinder wigeon]

Some enclosures don't have covers.

[zenith copper]

Gotcha

[cinder wigeon]

Even if they do you just slot it in an leave cover off to test.

I'm sure 8th has one thry can suggest, I don't have m.2 usb enclosures so.. I'm useless.

[zenith copper]

Ok, upon loading it without the 970 and just the 990, the 990 appears to be fine

It booted up well enough

However, after a quick check to make sure I didn't lose all my Elden ring progress, I'm turning the computer off until further notice

Ok, the save was there and resynced with the steam cloud, tho the Internet was being weirdly slow (that may just be because of recent ISP maintenance, I hope)

[last fable]

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[dusk violet]

there are 40 Gbps ones for like 3-4x the price, u don’t need those for testing

[zenith copper]

Thank you

[zenith copper]

As far as I can tell, I can't get the "one time exception" to RMA my motherboard, so I think I have to get a new one.

Is it worth it to upgrade to the z590, or does it make no difference getting the same model

I know I apparently have to upgrade the CPU at some point, since it doesn't actually support pcie 4.0 properly or something, and I'm getting slower GPU speed

[cinder wigeon]

Umm up too you?

[heavy loom]

depends on da budget

[zenith copper]

Is there any noticeable performance difference, tho?

Also, I haven't reached this stage yet, but I need to depair my copy of windows from the motherboard if I'm changing it out, right?

[heavy loom]

depair?

if its the same ssd, no problemo

[heavy loom]

and yes there will be a noticeable perf difference the more you spend on a mobo

[zenith copper]

I swear in one of my earlier threads someone brought up something about needing to do something to keep the same copy of windows if I was to change the mobo, but it's a bit hazy admittedly

[heavy loom]

0.o

i mean its the same ssd with windows activated on it

ive never heard of needin to keep the same copy or anything like that

[zenith copper]

Yeah but also like... I dunno, I'm worried I may be missing some steps in terms of upgrading what I have and simply fixing what I have. Like, if I get the same mobo model, then I've missed the chance to upgrade, but if I get a new model, then I have to take into account how much of what I have already is compatible

(see also: the previously mentioned issue with having a CPU that doesn't support pcie 4.0)

[heavy loom]

ah

yeah all around upgrade except the SSD might do you good

you could move to 12th gen

[zenith copper]

Does the cpu fan also need to be upgraded in this case, or is that fine

Also, I'm not sure if I'll be able to get a new CPU right away. I honestly wasn't expecting to be needing to upgrade so soon. I only built the whole thing in 2022 (and bought some parts in 2021)

Sorry, I'm probably going in circles

[heavy loom]

just look if its compatible with intel 12th gen

they always include a list

oh

you have a dark rock pro

i doubt it is incompatible

but never hurts to check

[cinder wigeon]

I'd just get whatever board is good in your range, 10700k is perfectly fine, if anything you can go to 11700k.

Also that cpu should still be under warranty.. I'd hit up Intel and rma it saying nvme slots inoperative.

[zenith copper]

Wait, no, I'm not sure that's right, I thought the mb I had now had 4.0 lanes and the CPU only did 3.0 lanes or something

In another thread I made, someone said that that might mean my GPU isn't being used to the best of its a ability

[cinder wigeon]

Shrug I can't easily Google this info on my phone.

[zenith copper]

S'alright

[dusk violet]

worth is subjective and as most tech related questions are, the answer is always “it depends”.

for example, it depends on your budget. it depends on your future plans. it depends on your expectations and needs. etc.

[dusk violet]

depends on the type of key you have. there’s OEM and there’s Retail keys.

OEM keys bind to the motherboard and are usually 1-time use but microsoft usually allows you to use it upto 5 times but you have to call them to let them know you “got a replacement board from the manufacturer” or something along those lines.

RETAIL keys bind to your microsoft account and is transferable easily, often doesn’t require contacting microsoft, just logging in to the same MS account.

do note that some keys sold as OEM are actually RETAIL versions so u’ll have to check this first if you can

[zenith copper]

hm. where in the system settings would I be able to check if it's oem or retail?

[cinder wigeon]

Can you?

[zenith copper]

I have no idea

[cinder wigeon]

Was a question for 8th sorry lol.

[zenith copper]

ah, righto

[dusk violet]

you can

1. open CMD or powershell
2. type “slmgr /dli” then hit enter
3. a pop up will tell you your windows version, channel (oem or retail), partial product key, and license status

“slmgr /dlv” would give you more info

looks like this

[tidal drift]

[heavy loom]

0.o