Remove discovery of recipes

[grave cypress]

For beginners or players with not that much time the new crafting system isnt acessible.

They maybe get some trees or herbs and then are pretty much lost as they are no recipes.

Most of them will no stop using the crafting system.

Some of them are now trying to get recipes from fansites, if they are listed by then.

A games feature should not depend on fansites to be used properly.
Also, recipes discovery does NOT add any value to the game. It annoys people.
People get recipes from fansites anyway, its just an annoying extra step.

3 possible Ways to improve:

1. Only show basic recipes at start. Once you craft them, you get the more advanced one and so on. I think Minecraft does it this way.

OR

2. Make all recipes learned, you can craft them right away. Like most games

OR

3. All recipes are listed at the menu, some can be used right away, but some special recipes, lets say salted grilled eel, must be dropped and then learned. Lets say endbosses from dungeons are dropping them at a low rate.
   WoW does it this way and this is pretty fun

[ruby yew]

This goes 180° against the intended system that players shall discover them by experimentation.

Completely against it.

I heavily dislike the general mentality that players should have everything spoon-fed to them.

Only those who put effort into this should reap their rewards, everyone else must not.

If anything, the current system isnt embracing discorvery enough.

[hollow thistle]

If anyone played the thaumcraft minecraft mod at one point it had a nice system where you had to research the recipes by spending ressources, I don't really recall all the details but it felt like a good balance between experimentation (you had to feed the correct items for the current research) and difficulty (it wasn't too tedious but you still had to spend ressources to research new recipes)

[grave cypress]

Why would try to discover and loose materials if just can open up a fansite and got all recipes right away? Its non sense.
Yes, on the paper that kind of system is cool, but not in a mmo in 2024.

Like Edwin said, research is cool where you know what recipe is unlocked then or at least the type of it. You spend some resources and kinda know the output.

But randomly putting ingredients in random fields is brain dead

[grand thicket]

It doesn't work well in practice though, we already have a full list of receipts leaked, because someone analysed the client. It just cripples phone users and inexperienced users and gives those who know how to search the internet an advantage. At this point we can remove discovery altogether. It took not even one day for this to be a leaked. Great system.

[ruby yew]

that's what I meant with "not embracing discovery enough".
The system should have been based on a seed, generated with the players original creation name + date/time.
That way these recipes become (almost) unique to a specific player and no sharing on the internet will work, as that specific recipe is only the same for maybe 0.0001% of all players. There may be hints towards recipes scattered throughout the game, but they too would be specific to that player.

@grand thicket That's just bad implementation. Why would any sane person store them within the client on the players device? An amateur's mistake...

[zenith root]

What's the interesting part about discovering stuff in time gated system like this? You will just waste your resources and wait for the next traveling merchant npc

[candid flame]

Unknown recipes will be for newbie, new player that know nobody playing this game.
In 3 months, guild will have their own recipes books!
In few months fansite will be full with recipes

PS: the leak of data of crafting is 90% accurate! So the recipes are already online

[ruby yew]

The current system is done bad. That much I agree, but...
#1312068180188856331 message

[grave cypress]

Making it random works well for single player games. In an MMO you cannot do that, as other players are getting advantages/disadvantages

[candid flame]

You want unique recipes based on each players?

Flyff don’t need to reinvent the wheel! Just do crafting as all mmo do it!

If you did right it would already great.
Why bother think to a new system when you have few devs… compared to large MMO.

[hollow thistle]

That why I believe the best option is to unlock the recipes through some sort of minigame, maybe a randomized puzzle or something.
That way it isn't entirely trivial compared to just looking things up online, and still require you some efforts, while keeping the recipe the same for everyone so it's balanced.

[ruby yew]

MMOs do it all the time, even flyff. Yet people still play despite that.
What you want is equality of outcome, I want equality of opportunity.

Also, I believe you interpreted my text as "everything will be entirely random"?
If so, then I have never said such a thing. So let me be clear.

There should be recipes, all of them should have hints to discover them. They may come from various sources; NpC dialogues, as quest rewards or monster drops. If you have obtained a "hint", that hint will always lead to the same production result. E.g. the first crafting quest from flaris major will always be a chair, no matter who does it. The way to get to the item however, will be different for basically every player (see the attached image)

Such a system is by definition not unfair. And if you yourself cant manage to figure out recipe, then you may ask friends to help you with them = more reason to interact with other players.

@hollow thistle At least better than what we currently have. But I'd argue that mini-games are too static. You cannot do anything else with them really.
Imagine a quest-line that sends you out in the wilderness to gather resource. From a logical point of view, anything could happen now. Even spontaneous sub-quests. And they could take any shape you can imagine.

[grave cypress]

I get your system, its great, bur not for an MMO. Some players get their desired recipe right away after the first hint, some others will get their recipe after they got 100 others. In the end they get the same recipes. But issue is that the order isnt the same

[ruby yew]

Nope. You get the same result recipe, but the items it takes are individual. My previous message sadly didnt make it through, because it had an example which my current post lacks.

Imagine this;
The first crafting quest flaris' major offers always results in a blue wooden chair. Not a red chair, not a stone chair and not something that isnt a chair at all. It will always be that blue wooden chair. However, the quest dialogue is different for every player. Some players are tasked to figure out that they need Item X, Y and Z for their recipe, while others need the items A, B and C. And while one player may has to go the field of bubble, the southern Leren mountain range and Madren village to obtain the items A, B and C, the next player will have to fight monster 1, 2 and 3 to obtain the items X, Y and Z.
Quests themselves will play out differently for everyone. This is comparable to procedurally generated content

Players can share where they have to go to or farm to get the quest or hint towards a specific item(s), but you cannot share what it takes to actually make that item.