#Save Knight SNS playstyle in pvp (with suggestions)

78 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

dusky sand
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Posting on behalf of @stiff comet

Hello Everyone. I want to make this post as a last attempt at salvation in order to avoid quitting, considering the significant amount of time and money I've invested in building my knight. Firstly, I understand that it is truly challenging to give the PvP set the right effects to make this class competitive.

Many have given advice, such as suggesting to include skill damage as a bonus, which could make sense since it would be unthinkable to have both critical and critical damage bonuses. Also because PVP Set its skill based.
However, let's realize one thing. I have participated in many sieges as an SNS Knight, and historically, on the Totemia server, I have achieved more points compared then the other knights, including one time where I became "MVP" with just a 135 set and a Bloody Sword.
So, what I'm wondering is, what is the point of destroying this playstyle when it works and many people enjoy it?
What purpose will Block Penetration Cards and 1h skills like Rage, which has 20% Block penetration, serve?
I understand your frustration and confusion regarding the direction of the class. It seems that the Blade class excels in tanking and crowd control compared to the Knight. Classes like YJ and BP have higher burst damage and more effective skills in terms of damage output. Additionally, the Ranger, Psy, and Elementor classes being ranged already have inherent advantages.The only thing that seemed to work was the Knight SNS.
Furthermore, one thing that drives me crazy is that I've invested a lot in maxing out everything related to the SNS Knight, including perfect weapons, A cards, and a perfect set because, obviously, it was what worked until recently.

1/2

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Having said that, upon reflection, I think I may have found a fair compromise that can make everyone happy, and I sincerely request your assistance. Let's optimize the PvP Set for those who want to play with skills or CC, and let's optimize the 135 set and future sets for those like me who enjoy auto-attacks. I kindly ask for your support, please.

First and foremost, I would like to optimize some skills for the 1h weapon that could currently be improved.

Grand Rage: Currently, I believe it is the most useless skill in the game, as stealing FP makes no sense in both PvP and PvE. I would suggest replacing it with either (Block Penetration +20% on the target without cooldown, similar to the Blade's skill) or (Movement Speed -30% + Block Penetration +5% with a cooldown of 10 seconds) to support melee classes like us.

Rage: Keep it the same but add 10% Movement Speed, for support us as melee class.

Set 135:

Set Effect:** +10% block penetration , HP +5 %**
This is all, I sincerely ask you to consider it because it really matters to me. I enjoy playing, I have met fantastic people in this game. The point is, I don't want to quit. Please try to understand my perspective. Thank you so much.

2/2

steel delta
dusky sand
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My own 2 cents on this:

Knight desperately needs some love. Our own Knight which sieged every single week with us now plays on an alt char provided by one of our other siege players, because the class is just that impactless. I was not even aware Knight had literally useless skills (Fp drain lol), i think there is potential to give them more utility in form of debuffs, cc and gapclosers / movement speed. Putting myself in knights position i can imagine the despair. Use these suggestions or some of the other Knight suggestions posted to give them something.

pine blaze
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Yes make knights great 👍 i think overall the class is strong as it can do a lot of different modes, but what is suggested makes sense - adjust the sets to suit each play style completely

steel delta
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Even skill type knights heavily rely on Mercenary skills instead of Knight skills due to how disappointing most of the knight skills are.
You have Earthdivider with basically useless CC, slow animation, and mediocre damage even on full STR glass cannon build. kekw

teal sun
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I love the Speed idea to rage tbh. In my opinion the class's (blade/knight) that need to be in your face to deal damamge should be the fastest classes in terms of speed. so i think thats a very good addition.

glass pumice
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honestly,
1.) first of all the nerf on Heart of Fury at January/February was so unnecessary
2.) in the current stance sns pure str is fk weak
3.) with the buffs on 2h weapons, it feels more likely to be forced to be 2h
4.) 2h on pure str or pure sta is way stronger than SNS any pure sta/str build

5.) PVP wise:
5.1.) to play a DPS you need to play SNS (which is currently useless)
5.2.) you can't play STR 2h with skills in pvp just to weak

1.a) Why was Heart of Fury even nerfed ?

personally:
in PvE
SNS should be 10% weaker than 2h (pure str)
as of rn it's more than 30 - 40%
the "extra defense" doesn't actually help, cause at a certain defense value there is a soft cap on it, which makes the "extra defense" extremly useless

Heart of Fury the extra Damage you gain is currently a flat bonus...
and if my analysis is correct the "extra Damage" from HoF should be working like a demol, than we may get the close DMG to a 2h, where still a 2h is superior as it is

balmy cargo
# glass pumice honestly, 1.) first of all the nerf on Heart of Fury at January/February was so...

On the point of 2h with skills for pvp, i think decreasing the animation time for skills like pain dealer and earth divider is something that is really needed, you can barely use them one time before ur target takes off running again. Giving power swing knock down effect now that both ranger and blade has this would also hugely increase the value of this skill which at the moment is very lack luster and no real threat in pvp.

glass pumice
twilit meadow
# glass pumice honestly, 1.) first of all the nerf on Heart of Fury at January/February was so...

SnS was nerfed because its was ultimate noob stomper class. You literally dont do anything but click people. You were tanky enough to frontline while also doing decent dmg to anyone who is getting focused by you. Backup from your team with Heal rain resulted in constant dps while not dying. Also SnS was the best counterplay against Bps. Autoattack any Bp and he is forced to stay on Hp gear. The only reason SnS is worse now is because we are still in the ranged meta dominated by Psy and Ranger. @glass pumice I guess SnS was so strong it made 2h useless and the original design was probably supposed to be a PvP oriented playingstyle (dmg benefits from STA) at least makes sense to me.

glass pumice
dusk shard
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Up guillotine damage and pain reflect

steel delta
steel delta
twilit meadow
primal chasm
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Nah, Knights doesnt need a buff
BPs and Psy just need nerfs

we cant be buffing everytime someone's ego got hurt because he wanted a TANK class to deal alot of damage

this also applies to those RM mains who keep begging for an "identity"

glass pumice
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What are you talking ? I don’t understand bs.

The best positive outcome is to buff other classes to serve a well more positive vibe for the community.

At this stage of the game every class can go tank. Your point of view is to shallow

eager dew
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BP and Psy have gotten a lot of work. I don't know particulars on balancing, but I'd say our best bet is to get all classes up to that level.

As it stands, knight is suffering quite badly. Even blade, which has less players in siege, to my knowledge, has a more defined role and better utility.

I don't think knights need to deal a lot of damage...but they should do SOMETHING best.

glass pumice
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I want sns (pure str) to get buffed 10% under 2h slayer DPS on pve
To make it more balance
In the mind of if I want absolutely best dps go 2h
But if I want a sword and shield makes it also viable
And the extra defense is like barely noticeable on pure str

hard lance
dire dew
dusk shard
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@dire dew my full int elementor tanks better than my knight with plus 10 cruentus and obs sword.

dire dew
dusk shard
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@dire dew I could show u on mushpoie lol

glass pumice
dire dew
turbid nova
dire dew
turbid nova
steel delta
glass pumice
# dire dew and you think 2H sword having higher DPS than SNS is wrong? Common sense thoug...

You either read it all I have written there. Else I report you for spamming.
Trying to join a discussion with out reading others context to reply to one sentence with a whole different point and making it a completely different topic.
Keep it fk related.

To your point I never said buff sns to match 2h.
I said buff sns to a point where it’s 10% under 2h.
To make still 2h superior than sns
As of rn pure str sns is still to weak for a melee class.

Sincerely F off and join someone else discussion

twilit meadow
keen ledge
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not an expert on knight here. first of all i think knight in pve is strong right now. outputting similar dps as a YJ, just with double the hp. being able to aoe properly and also the only "true" tank with a taunt.

in pvp, i dont know. kinda depends on what unique role knight should be able to fill. knight is the single highest hp class in the game by a long shot. with added defensive skills on top. decent CC between aoe-stun for spawn-camping (not so relevant anymore on totemia, but knight aoe + merkaba on spawn point were the meta not so long ago), a single target stun, sneaker and a number of spells that all have mediocre 1v1 burst.

is auto-atking also supposed to be strong? well as danny said, he mvped with that style already. knight has some useless spells, but thats true for every class. i think its important to not give knights too much. whether a class is currently good in pvp or not is very subjective and also depends alot on the siege meta on ur particular server. elementor for example being the g0d tier class on lawolf and fwc and underwhelming at best in servers with lower population and better average gear.

my main point is tho... class strength in pvp and pve for that matter depends on loads of things, often mainly on ur particular circumstances. and also theres regular balance patches that tweak the classes - changing which classes are slightly better and slightly worse. most recently psys being giga broken and now its rangers.

i defintiely dont encourage ppl stopping to play the game or rerolling chars all the time because in their subjective view their class feels slightly worse. everyone always feels their class is underwhelming - thats the standard feeling. just stick with ur class, make the best out of it, balance patches come regularly that shift the power dynamics anyways

hollow nest
# keen ledge not an expert on knight here. first of all i think knight in pve is strong right...

The only buff Knight got was when they made Rage not as detrimental to the user. The class is underwhelming. No Knight has even been top 10 in the last 5 weeks on any server according to siege stats and even RMs have been outperforming us for months. We have been waiting for these balance patches and updates for over a year now and have gotten nothing.

With every other class receiving buffs with nothing but nerfs to Knight, the class has fallen off. The rise of more PvP sets means auto attacking isn't very good right now even, if the playstyle with no mobility and 1 cc ability in sneaker can get to anyone.

I wont go in to how 5 other classes have more cc than Knight or how having high hp isn't that great when you do no damage and have 0 presence, because people don't seem to care about that. Just know that the SNS (and Knight in general) playstyle in PvP is and has been in a really bad spot for a while now and needs help before the few Knights that are left quit.

keen ledge
# hollow nest The only buff Knight got was when they made Rage not *as* detrimental to the use...

i generally dislike the way of arguing "please buff my class or else I quit", and im sure you agree here.

yes, many classes do feel underwhelming now because of massive buffs to the other classes. psys and bps are still strong even after the nerfs. yjs and rangers have risen to be the new gigachads of siege. RMs have always been the an essential and giga strong class overall in flyff tbh, not just siege. and it leaves knigths, blades, eles to feel "weaker" comparatively, and youre absolutely right in thinking that.

then again, the new balance patch jsut came out, knight got 10% skill dmg iirc. imo sure sns is fun, youre scoring, lots of points, nice nice, but really the concept of knight is tank. so generally running into the enemy backline as giga tank, stunning a psy or sth, having the opponent team focus you, commit spells, but ure giga tank, so u dont die from that quickly and then have ur team comes in and wipe them...now thats the playstyle!
is it strong currently? no. id rather have a YJ, BP or Ranger for that matter.

thats why i find this suggestion so weird. the core problem is not that knight got weaker or sns kngith isnt as viable. its just that 2 more classes jsut got giga buffed and now theres 5 out of 8 classes which are fairly objectively just stronger than knight around... adn - at least on totemia - the 3 classes that arent as strong (knight blade ele) are also the least played. so most players inside the siege arena play one of those 5 currently strong classes. so really maybe the buffs to these other classes were too big recently. i dont think we need to powercreep more and more and more and buff everything until everyone has +100% blockpen and +1000% critdmg. what we need is nerfs to the strong classes currently.

twilit meadow
# keen ledge i generally dislike the way of arguing "please buff my class or else I quit", an...

Powercreep is indeed the issue what happens in this and many other games. Why do we have to buff Ranger and Jester dmg instead of adjusting the HP values of other classes? This would result in the same outcome but avoid powercreep which hurts the already not viable classes even more. If you can't avoid powercreep then you have to balance every class in the same patch. This is something that is most frustrating for the majority of the playerbase. You see x and y getting buffs and your class is the same as before. This is why patchday is always exciting in Diablo, League etc. There is actual stuff happening and people have something to try out and theorycraft about.

twilit meadow
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This man wanna bring back those broken pservers op swap SnS knights Germans loved, tanking full str asal with 100k crits 😩

steel delta
# keen ledge i generally dislike the way of arguing "please buff my class or else I quit", an...

Elementors are the kings of siege in my server currently

Having +5% skill damage does not even make a difference if the skills can only be used once or twice.
Earthdivider can only be used once or twice on a target before it escapes your reach due to how slow the skill animates.
Pain Dealer can ony be used once with a very long cooldown.
PowerStomp usually position bugs, and even on damage build it deals 2-3 clean hits on targets before they could escape.

Now you add the crazy damage reductions on these skills by Plug Earrings + Obsi Set and you get skill damage of 1.5k below.

If you want a class that could CC and tank at the same time you get the Blade instead of a Knight.

eager dew
# keen ledge i generally dislike the way of arguing "please buff my class or else I quit", an...

5% skill damage (on PvP set) and also it's just not what a TANK set needs. They have a damage set in the 135 set. Even the sets are confused.

Again, on no server is knight even close to MVP. The problem is as follows: you blizzard a knight. You hit them a few times, you then ROOTING a knight: they're now dead completely by all ranged classes and cannot escape.

They don't have any way of closing gaps or getting out of a stun. 3 seconds on holy, then another stun or root and they're dead. YJs have an escape skill, DI, fast walker, AND pulling. Not to mention a literal counter skill. They've got a lot of defensive maneuvers.

Knights have a shield they can throw on others to take more damage while they're perma stunned. Knights need some kind of mobility and/or capacity to even reach a target.

Even BP has Sury's, which is an escape route. Mages got blinkpool. Blade has rending entry. Ringmaster can perma heal theirself, have prevention, and heal rain.

If you're a tank and being strong enough to tank attacks people can selectively not hit you with, then what good are you? If you frontline and people aren't scared, they'll just root you and run past lmao.

And you thinking ele isn't a strong class is buckwild. Have you seen Godzilla walk in the arena? Nobody can solo man siege. I ran in headfirst and died as a tank blade IMMEDIATELY. It's a group thing.

As for buffing classes, if more than half the classes are strong, wouldn't it just make more sense to let EVERYONE feel strong. I think you've lost the plot a bit.

P.S. Eles can literally deal 7-10K to the whole team, CC the whole team, and then have a literal bubble to protect them from most melees.

twilit meadow
arctic zealot
#

Knight = uselsss

primal chasm
eager dew
twilit meadow
primal chasm
dire dew
keen ledge
# eager dew **5%** skill damage (on PvP set) and also it's just not what a TANK set needs. T...

theres so much wrong with this statement, wow.

  • 5% skilldmg is absolutely what a tank build needs, since you wont be auto-attacking. sure its not a big help, but you use skills and not auto-attacks lol.

  • knight has mvped on totemia already, buit they arent close to it currently. Ringmasters arent close to mvping either, are they a terrible class? knight is a tank class. naturally they wont score all the points. the cc "problem" u described has three major flaws. first of all it assumes its 1 knight vs 3 ranged classes. 2nd of all... using holy for blizzard is dumb, its only 1.5sec stun, after reaction time like 0.5-1sec only. save ur holy for the rooting. and thridly... even if 3 classes combined cc and hit the knight.. they are 100k+ hp. it takes literal ages for him to die. in all this time and after all the commitment the team of the knight has no problem wiping the opposing team, now that they wasted all theri spells on a tanky knight. there is a reason why its generally a bad strategy in really all games, not just flyff, to focus a tank first. you go on squishy high-dps backliners first.

  • the way u close gap is by using sneaker and running. yes its a CC war and sometimes u cant reach, the way you get out fo stun is the saem for all classes except YJ... use holy scroll. why is that worse for knights now? bps dotn even have sneaker and are also melee. you arguing bp is terrible ebcause they are melee, no gap close, not evne sneaker? cmon. its true that YJs are overtuned currently. fast walker, DI, counter, escape, massive burst on a relatively short cooldown, its just too much. but that is a seperate issue.

  • idk why u say knights are perma stunned. if the opponent is bad enough to commit their valubale stun spells on a knight... be happy, thsts ur job lol.

  • if you buff every class, thats jsut powercreep. u can give knights as much gapclose if u want, if u buff yjs and rangers so much that they 1shot knights it doesnt matter. thats also why ele sucks.

eager dew
# keen ledge theres so much wrong with this statement, wow. - 5% skilldmg is absolutely what ...

5% skill DAMAGE is what a TANK needs. Hmm, or maybe magic or general defense?

Ele had many MVPs over the last few months on different servers. Maybe watch their PoVs. Knight hasn't had one in the last few weeks, especially after ranger buff.

Find a knight that plays siege with over 100K HP. You're pulling numbers out of thin air. And wasting all your aoe spells on a knight sounds like an issue for the ele.

The problem, again, is that knights have no viable option to CC ranged classes if they're stunned or rooted. If they get stuck in a CC, there isn't a viable way for them to get to the target and/or disengage.

YJs are fine, just don't run it down mid.

The problem with knight is that they're not WORTH CCing, but that they can get CC'd easily by the time they actually do try to hurt you.

Brotato, the solution to making blade and knight better via nerfs would INCLUDE ele.

You can literally hit a whole 6 person lineup at once for 6-10K

keen ledge
# eager dew 5% skill DAMAGE is what a TANK needs. Hmm, or maybe magic or general defense? E...

as a tank knight you use spells... so skill dmg is a beneficiary stat lol. is it that hard to understand. the issues with tanks in many games is... they get ignored. so you need to build ur tank to be both tanky... but not so low damage/cc that they can eb ignored. thus... obviously skill dmg helps. idk why its that hard to see lol.

its not about mvp or point scores for that matter... RM hasnt mvped either. they bad now? kngiht is a tank class, ele is a squishy class. naturally ele is gonna score more than knight. if it was any other way, the game would be giga broken. the fact that ele is by far the squishiest class, should mean that they score the most points, which they dont. weak balance here. but idk why u keep talking ele, this is a knight thread. i agree that ele is currently stronger than knight, but not by much.
current balance ranking is somehting like that..

1st is RMs as always, by far the strongest class in the entire game and that wont change. 2nd place YJs/Rangers then comes a small gap, then BPs/Psys, then comes a big gap, and then Eles. After another small gap there is knight and then after yet another big gap, theres blades, which are significantly worse than knights.

u say 100k hp as knight is pulling numbers out of thin air? 100k is a low estimate. any normally-geared knight can easily reach waaaay above 100k hp. if they prefer to go that route or try to score alot instead is up to them, but its eeeeeasily possible.

you say wasting spells on knight is an ele problem... the exact opposite is true. as an ele player i always hit the knight cause my spells are aoe. it hits them all anyways, nothings wasted here. its the single-target spells that are wasted on knights... rootings, ranger stuns, psy bombs, etc. tbh im surprised that for most of the stuff you say, they exact opposite is true, quite remarkable.

knights have no viable way to CC ranged classes... yet they have sneaker and single target stun, 100% pro chance... bro

glass pumice
steel delta
# keen ledge theres so much wrong with this statement, wow. - 5% skilldmg is absolutely what ...

The knight in totemia had a very reliable partner that CCs and give Block Pen that's why he was able to secure kills. You add the fact that knights get ignored most of the time so it gave added security on his part. Now that everyone knows he's on damage build he probably gets priority since he has less than 60k HP.
You speak as if a knight can lockdown someone with CC and Charge, players are not dumb to use holy on sneaker. If the knight were to use such combo CC on you it would mean his team would fully commit on chasing you down otherwise that knight would have overextended and will just go back to his team.
You think we can close the gap on you with sneaker and running? That's a myth. I have played against the best elementors in my server and there's no way to chase an elem down as a knight.
100k hp againts 3 players? what are you talking about. It only takes a single player to kill that knight even with that HP. Asal with HC or a Psy.

eager dew
keen ledge
# steel delta The knight in totemia had a very reliable partner that CCs and give Block Pen th...

sneaker has very long duration and needs to be holied. in current flyff its generally not possible for any class to 1v1 kill another class, assuming similar levels of gear. no one class has enough CC and damage to both prevent another class from running away and winning the fight if he decides to turn. saying asal+hc can kill 100k hp knight 1v1.. sure.. but that isnt exactly a 1v1, thats a 2v1. btw 100k is low hp for tank knights, tehy can get way more. i think a full tank knight even tanks hc'ed asals.

@eager dew whats ur line of argumentation here? i hope ure not past the point of trying to explore the subject at hand and rather try to "win" some sort of discussion by employing underhanded strategies like taking things out of context on purpose to make them sound like the opposite of what they meant with context. youre better than that im sure.

in that particular example: why do you not focus tanks? because the dps and commit spells and cooldowns cannot be used on other targets... because its either single target dps or the spell is now on cooldown. however that doesnt apply to elementor. uniquely in current flyff guild siege meta is... elementor uses aoe spells. so an elementor hitting a knight with aoe spells doesnt lose the ability to hit other targets as well. thus, elementor is actually the only class that can hit a knight without commiting anything, sure it doesnt result in much, because the dmg of elementors is so low vs the hp of the knight, that their hp bar doesnt even move, but still, nothing commited.
elementor actually prefers hitting a knight, rather than say.. a psykeeper, yj or ranger because you can be sure that they wont just disappear leaving you without a target.. or worse.. making you move a couple steps too much into enemy territory because ur target is suddenly further away than you anticipated. the knight has low mobility and wont die. its a guranteed target u can keep blasting - in order to hit his surroundings.

eager dew
# keen ledge sneaker has very long duration and needs to be holied. in current flyff its gene...

My line of argumentation is that you're missing the point of what knights need, then saying your class is bad when literal statistics show otherwise.

Playing an argument of moral high grounds, surely you're better than that? 😂 Let me poke at you a bit.

The same issues eles face go for knights, EXCEPT knights are the least capable of performing the role given to them out of all classes.

Blades are pretty squishy and have melee limitations BUT at least the kit is 90% good.

Eles have all the skills they need and most just want 1v1 skills to have better casting time and/or scaling — sure, I agree that could HELP.

The difference is viability. Without that buff, eles still do amazing. Consistently.

Without a buff or skill reworks, knights don't do amazing.

Naturally, the same goes for blade, but I feel like AT LEAST blades can be a CC bot off tank.

Surviving in siege does no good if all you do is stand around and can't really kill anything. Stun locking one enemy if you're lucky may net you a kill if you're lucky, but an ele could rain enough down on the team to kill them all, leaving the knight for the final picking.

What I'm trying to say is: knights have a lot of HP but not a lot of actual contribution they can offer to the team UNLESS they try to go SnS — and that itself is wrong.

Edit: guillotine is a slow cast skill that has no effects on it. It travels slowly to the enemy, too.

If I could remove guillotine and offer a counter like YJ I would in a second. Knights should be able to walk to their target not have to pseudo ranged lol

dusk shard
#

@eager dew up guillotine damage solves that problem.

hollow nest
#

@keen ledge Everything you have said has been flat out wrong. I didn't responding earlier because I dont want to write a novel about everything incorrect you've been posting. You clearly don't understand anything about this class and you refuse to read the responses that outline the problems and detail why what you're saying doesn't make sense. So just stop.

Also, please stop derailing the thread to be about Ele.

keen ledge
# hollow nest <@724376534898573412> Everything you have said has been flat out wrong. I didn't...

now that you say it, youre right, its so obvious now that everything was just wrong!
no need to share your genius insight onto why cause.. its so obvious!
im sure if you wanted to, you could pick a random point i made and show its flat out wrong, but surely theres no need for that :)

i wish this topic was about knights mainly. somehow people keep bringing up ele when they reply to me... maybe because i currently play ele? not sure why ppl keep talking about ele, but - as always - youre 100% right and ppl should stop derailing to eles

eager dew
hollow nest
# keen ledge now that you say it, youre right, its so obvious now that everything was just wr...

Okay ill reply to everything you've said since you responded to me.

Your class isn't underwhelming. it's performing well on all servers regardless of population and participating guilds. YOU are underperforming, but that's a skill issue.

Knight doesn't just "feel weaker" it is weaker. BP, Blade, RM, Jester, Ele, Psy, and Jester have all gotten buffs this past year whether that be making their cc 100%, new impactful skills, number tweaks and buffs, and animation changes with their skills. Knight has gotten NONE OF THAT. All we have gotten in the removal of the HP debuff on our self buff to make it actually useable(but still detrimental) and a nerf to HoF by 5%. With everyone actually having endgame gear, it really shows how weak melee is as a whole. Knight also just happens to be the worst of the melee classes.

Knight did NOT get 10% skill damage. We got 5% on the PvP set(which is still bugged btw). 10% was given to the PVE set which is irrelevant to the topic of PvP.

If you want to score as Knight with SnS you actually generally are running around with the same or less HP than some Psys and BPs. You dont get to use the 120 HP set, you have to run the 135 set so you can actually kill anyone. If you are running full tank (which this thread isn't about) you only have sneaker as your cc option. While a Psy and Ele can blink away, Psy can put up a wall, Ele can use their wind skill, Ranger can DI, Jester can Escape, RM can Gvur, BP can Sury, Blade can rending away. Ironically, the only class that really cares about being sneakered is other Knights.

Melee is bad. Knights are bad. The only reason it kinda worked before was because most people didn't have engame gear. Even giving the class more damage doesn't solve the issues with the class but it atleast makes sns playable if you can manage to get over all the hurdles to actually get to a target and stay on them long enough to hit them. A playstyle with 1 form of cc should be able to do SOME damage.

5% skill damage is useless for SnS and the 120 set is unusable so this has nothing to do with the actual topic of SnS and 2h isn't exactly topping any sieges with this change.

Knight MvP'd because as someone else said, people ignored dashi assuming he was full tank and he had HEAVY support. Also notice how he hasnt ever came close since then because people now know to just kill him. No other Knights are really succeeding on other servers either. RMs score better than we do.

If a Knight is running around with 100k hp, they arent a threat to anyone. We have charge, sneaker, and blindside if you let us get clean hit/slash off and we can get to a target before they run into their team. It is also piss easy to kill ANYONE if a team decides to focus them down. HC + asal is killing anyone unless the Knight also has guard up... which means they have 20% less attack so theyre not doing anything, You kill the Knight's team then you kill the Knight if they are full tank.

Already addressed gap closing

Knights are screwed passively by Merkaba, Grav well, Ele wall, Blizzard, etc etc. We have no movement so literally anything can stop us.

Again Knight is the only class to not be buffed all this time, Ele isn't bad. If you think it is, search inward.

Knight skills do no damage even with skill damage bonuses if you're full tank. 5% of 600 damage from a slow skill isn't doing anyhting for anyone. You NEED to invest into str to get anything out of your slow as sin skills... which means you die before you even get to anyone.

Knight being a tank doesnt matter. They could have 1million hp and it wouldnt matter because they have no presence. You ignore them because you just can. Also again, RINGMASTERS are scoring better than Knight.

Knight is just the worst class in the game in PvP. Blade does their job better as cc and damage dealers so what is their purpose?

only full tank Knights have 100k+ hp and again, they don't do anything and die to an asal after the rest of the team is dead.

hollow nest
#

Going any further is just me repeating myself. To recap tl;dr, everything you said was wrong. You don't even have a grasp of your own class so please do not come in here spouting nonsense about this one.

keen ledge
# hollow nest Okay ill reply to everything you've said since you responded to me. Your class ...

mhhh when you were typing for 38minutes, i actually thought ure gonna show how my points are wrong. im a little bit disappointed now, because apart from one point you made, everything else is just "youre wrong because i disagree with you". thats a pretty weak argument.
the only thing you said that is actually objectively true is that knights have gotten 5% skilldmg on pvp set and 10% on pve set, which initially i thought was 10% on both, but cleared up a long time ago - my bad.

all the other points are sadly just your opinion differing :/

to go through some of them (discords space limitation wont allow adressing all of them):

  • why are you talking about ele again? can you please stop steering the convo to ele? somehow you think bringing up my performance as ele is relevant to this knight thread. well lets talk about it. unfortuntely my team doesnt have a frontliner. i wish we had one of those 100k hp knights that goes in for me, so i can be full itn protected in the back and fire away. but we dont have that. so i have to play tank build. and sicne ele has the worst dmg/hp ratio out of all clases, that means my dmg is really really low, so i wont score. ill provbide mild cc from behind and make ppl waste HoPs (doesnt work well anymore after the buff) and sometimes asal on me. i dont actually think im underperforming, tho thats kinda subjective. but i think you fell into the trap thinking that "performance" in siege can be measured in "points scored". im sure all ringmasters agree with you.

  • "knight doesnt just feel weaker, it is", well i respect ur subjective opinion, and i agree even, just not to the same extent as you. you conviniently ignore the new knight spell that redirects dmg. it was so brokenly strong that they had to nerf it. yes other classes also got new spells, but kngith also did!

  • you go on to talk about all kinda balance things, claiming loads of questionable stuff, due to space issues ill say this:

knight is a tank class, play it as such!

hollow nest
#

Everything I said was a fact that is backed up by siege stats or just but alright.

I've already addressed you first bullet and I will not repeat myself again.

HoS does nothing to help with the gameplay of Knight and is so stupidly bugged that it isnt even funny. The Knight takes significantly more damage than they should from magic attacks and if you die from the damage of the skill you lose experience in PvP. I would have 0 issue if the skill was removed from the game.

Your final point is extremely contradictory and the fact that you said that only shows me that you have not read anything posted in this thread since it's inception.

steel delta
turbid nova
#

Can we request to change the knight hof flat damage buff to work like how demols do with IA%? So that upgrading FP necklace would have a good value

cursive forum
glass pumice
turbid nova
# cursive forum Nah, SnS needs more utility and defensive capabilities like more reflect magic d...

I agree having some utility and defensive stats. however its just a minor rework since we will be going to a point where jewelry are soul linked and we will be force to either choose to be a tank or glass canon. right now weather in pvp or pve sns damage is at its lowest and having fp neccklace+20 isn't rewarding

im not asking for hof ultra buff, im asking for hof to be rework since it just gives +600 damage max and thats it. most sns will just ignore this since it really doesnt scale with any damage modifier.

They could just lower the % but atleast it will now have a better fp/dmg ratio where u either choose to have more fp for dmg or just have some gore for health.

cursive forum
glass pumice
harsh jolt
#

Everytime I see ppl saying this "best defensive capabilities", I laugh. When we are comparing full DPS builds, how is knight better defensively than any other class? You can wear a shield, sure, but so can psy and bp. Other than that, you have a bit more HP, but in order to be a DPS you use rage, which brings your effective HP closer to a blade or yj. Ranger on the other hand has has max block and parry, mages and blades have blinks to avoid damage, yj has counter, even bp got sury which at least gives some sort of cleansing, while a knight is a meele class with no added benefit to that. It can be a good tank, sure, but you have to sacrifice your DPS for that

rough nova
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Request to let people who have never touched the class not give their 2 cents to discussions of people who actually main said classes PeepoSadJuice

turbid nova
glass pumice
steel delta
turbid nova
#

Aaaand oooh we can also talk about how plug earring affects asal and other damages. kekl

glass pumice
hasty pawn
#

BALANCE The #knight for PVP 🙌 !!!