#Is traveling a good idea?

64 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

regal parcel
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Hello guys.
I want to ask this 'cause I'm really not sure, I would appreciate having some advice, especially from experienced and knowledgeable Refolders, 'cause I have no experience at all, and it may be a great idea, but I may be wrong

Well, actually, I started my immersion journey about three weeks ago. Now four or five days ago some sudden idea passed by my mind, it was just something like (travel.....Japan?). Well I could've just ignored it like most of my daydreaming, but then I was like, why not? Then I, by now, am like, I WANT to do it! The idea just stuck in my head.

Look, I started on March 2 this year, so this is day 18 for me, I started with 15 cards a day (to make the progress faster), then I made it 20 (you know, more faster), then I went crazy, 30 a day is my number nowO⁠_⁠o
That's when I thought, if I continue like this, won't I hit 1000 cards at the end of the month or a bit later?! So doesn't stage 2 come after that? And in stage 2, isn't the purpose to start sentence mining? Well, wouldn't it be crazy to do this in Japan? Sentence mining from real life Japanese!

I just thought it would motivate me to continue learning Japanese, and at the same time give me a real life experience of Japanese language (immersion at it's core!), or wouldn't it?

PS: it's not like I'm gonna have burn out any soon, I'm so motivated, and I have nothing else to do, it's a gap year after all.

PS: I can't really afford the travel to Japan, no way, but the whole idea came to my mind when I found out about volunteering abroad, which is just perfect, staying with a Japanese family!

I never traveled before, anywhere...
So please give me your honest opinion about the idea.

real dirge
# regal parcel Hello guys. I want to ask this 'cause I'm really not sure, I would appreciate ha...

I’ll just open by saying travel is a great idea, and one of the core rewards of learning a language is the world of cultural and social interactions it opens up for you. I started learning because of a trip I’ve been planning for almost a year now!

As for how it fits into Refold: first, don’t think of your interactions as study time. Just get out there and enjoy yourself—you’ll learn by trying to engage with people. Just have fun. However, you’ll still need to do some “traditional” Refold study at home. I wouldn’t recommend trying to sentence mine conversations, and really I don’t see how that could work. You’ll need to put in work at home with Anki or mining to some extent. Of course, this assumes that you want to accelerate the process with those tools. If you’re working and interacting with natives in Japanese, you’ll learn the language and have a wonderful experience doing it.

strange apex
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Trying to mine conversations is highly unrealistic and isn't something to even think about at your stage. Output mining is a thing at later stages when comprehension is very high. To the point that you're only missing a word or two here and there. It's not something for beginners to do, especially in a very unpredictable environment such as interactions with real humans. And I also don't think people working in shops or strangers on the street would appreciate you trying to use them as unwilling study partners or study material. Don't make it weird. Go to Japan if you want to go to Japan. But don't try to make it into some ultra-optimized training arc.

nocturne glacier
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my qualifications to answer this question:
experienced refolder ✅
experienced traveler ❌

learning from real life conversation is really hard when you're in stage 1 or 2 in my experience, and only starts to have really tangible benefits when you're moving into the very difficult domain of everyday conversation in stage 3 (and at that point you're almost fluent in understanding)

if you're following the refold method, its recommended to use some content that's slighty easier than everyday conversation (for example, any slice of life anime is like everyday conversation-lite) that is slower and clearer (usually as a result of scripting) and also digital in format to facilitate slightly easier understanding due to better visual cues / easier to understand speech and MUCH smoother sentence mining due to the fact that its on your phone or computer

real life interaction has none of these benefits because of all the considerations you have to make like existing as a person, not being weird, getting where you're supposed to be going, not having robust visuals, and etc. from my perspective this kind of thing would seem overly stressful as a stage 1 or 2 person because your comprehension isn't high enough to be able to fluently use japanese to do urgent tasks (like find the train station before the next train) or easily make conversation for fun with strangers, and as such for learning purposes, i would much more recommend just doing it the old fashioned way (of the refold method) at home with anime and books and stuff

however, traveling might help you get excited to learn, and keep up your motivation, i guess. this is a commonly cited benefit of traveling to the TL country as a beginner, but you mentioned that you won't struggle with burnout or loss of motivation, so i don't see how it would really help at this stage.

overall, save travel for later, when you can get a lot more out of it. oootay

regal parcel
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Of course I won't be quitting Anki. actually, I may continue to 2000 cards with it there, I'll continue watching anime and drama as well.
I just want to know if working there is possible.
Like, you know when in anime the character works a part time job in a store or something, is this possible for foreigner? Not just possible, is it actually easy to find one everywhere?
I thought, aren't jobs like stores so easy and allow me to hear people talking and I'm not suppose to talk much?

strange apex
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You're describing a situation where you have a student visa that allows you to work a part time job or some other visa that allows you to do that. With your original question, I assumed you were describing a tourist visit situation (unless I totally misread?) and that would be out of the question in that situation.

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You cannot work at all on a tourist visa

regal parcel
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strange apex
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that's....... not how that works

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maybe natives can get away with "under the table" work like that but not foreigners

regal parcel
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Sorry, I really have no experience:'(

strange apex
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especially foreigners who are just visiting

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when countries give out visas, there are rules and stipulations for that visa. you can't just do whatever.

nocturne glacier
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i think they mentioned volunteering abroad or something

strange apex
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or else you get kicked out

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maybe it would work with some WOOFing type of company or arrangement

regal parcel
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I want to go on a volunteering travel, where I take care of something while staying with them for free

nocturne glacier
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better to use the gap year to study the language

strange apex
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this is something I looked into many many years ago and it just sounds like hard labor all day in exchange for staying with someone for free. I don't think you'll be able to get studying done in those conditions. Especially if it's rural.

regal parcel
strange apex
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I get the impression you won't have a lot of free time

regal parcel
strange apex
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Probably a better option

regal parcel
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I mean not necessarily rural areas

regal parcel
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nocturne glacier
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perhaps

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i've been learning japanese for 3 years now tho and in my journey i would not have told myself to go to japan until literally right now

regal parcel
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Wow!
Why?

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I mean, you're at stage 3!

regal parcel
nocturne glacier
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even when i first got to stage 3

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i would’ve had an awful time

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i’m only recently becoming confident in my output abilities

regal parcel
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I see
btw, why three years and just starting to output? Isn't it supposed to be 2 years to be fluent?

strange apex
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you might be thinking 2 years to get to stage 3. But getting to stage 3 doesn't mean you're good at output. Stage 3 is when you start working on output.

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and the time is all relative

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it depends on how many hours people put in

regal parcel
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So can it be significantly reduced if one puts so much effort?

strange apex
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in theory yes but it's not realistic for most people

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adults with a life and obligations don't usually have all day to study Japanese

regal parcel
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I was thinking, not to be fluent in output, but in comprehension, maybe I can do it before the end of this year!
Was I too naive?

strange apex
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there's no straight answer I can give you

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it depends on a lot of factors

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it's probably safe to say if you study and immerse a reasonable amount (2 hours per day), level 5 comprehension in your strongest domain can be had in 2 years

regal parcel
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What about 10 hours?MikasaNotLikeThis

strange apex
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then maybe you can do it in a year. But like I said these extreme hypotheticals are not realistic. Especially as a beginner where you need to build up stamina for immersing in gibberish first.

regal parcel
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Yeah, it's actually more of an experiment I want to try or something..

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I'll continue with 30 cards a day and see what happens at the end of the month.

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I'll consult you and tell what happens then, and it may be beneficial to others somehow

strange apex
regal parcel
strange apex
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For sure!

nocturne glacier
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i been outputting for a year

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wouldn’t have called myself any sort of fluent until about now (at 2 years 9 months ish)

regal parcel