Do I really need to avoid output and textbook study?

[tepid basalt]

I have a question about output. The Refold roadmap says to avoid output (speaking and writing) and focus only on input.

I've been studying on my own for a few years now, and I want to increase my progress speed by incorporating immersion and more effective kanji study (I just bought the JP1K deck, can't wait to get started with it!).

I do, however, enjoy active study on my own as well (I'm using Marugoto currently before starting Genki 2). I usually do around 2-8 hours a week depending on how busy I get with other things. I also keep a language diary, and I aim for one entry a week there.

Would you guys suggest I up my input and set aside my books? Or just increase my input via immersion and continue with active study but in smaller amounts?

[jaunty sparrow]

Do you write the language diary in Japanese?

Generally, if you have been doing traditional/textbook methods for years, you're going to need to flip the ratio. Traditional methods tell us that getting input in the language is just a supplement you do on the side for fun. But to actually learn a language to a high level, input must be the main course. So for example, if you normally do a ratio of 80% study and 20% input, that needs to be flipped on its head.

[tepid basalt]

Yes I do, and I recently made a Twitter account to interact with native speakers as well.

Do you have any suggestions on how I can flip it? I've been reading the roadmap (the detailed version has more info than the simplified one) and I also saw the community resource document. I'm planning on making a list of immersion content and starting to watch/listen to stuff this weekend. It's tricky for me because I work full time, and most of my free time is on weekends.

[jaunty sparrow]

So, since you have a history of studying using traditional methods and not getting input, you're more than likely going to have some bad habits ingrained when outputting. In order to get away from these bad habits, it's recommended to have a "silent period" where you refrain from output for a while. So that would mean stopping journaling in Japanese and not outputting with native speakers on Twitter. You can certainly use Twitter as a great source of input since the language will be very natural.

As for how to flip the ratio, think of it like a meal. The main part of your meal is the steak and potatoes and your drink is a supplement. Textbook studying is like drinking tons of water and expecting to satisfy hunger but it doesn't work like that.

A big part of language learning using this method that is often overlooked or taken for granted is the mindset shift that needs to happen. You need to start thinking of getting input and consuming media and content in the language as the steak and potatoes and the drink as the studying.

[tepid basalt]

That's a really good analogy, thank you! I do need a mindset shift, I think my interaction with native content has been so low because it's intimidating. There's no other way to start than to just dive in.

I already set up a TL YouTube profile and I've got AnkiDroid on my phone. I'll aim for 20 minutes of Anki per day and 30 min of immersion on YouTube and another 30 min for reading (I'm planning on starting with Chi's Sweet Home as I have the whole series in English in addition to the original Japanese in ebook form).

Does this sound like a good plan to start with?

Should I start the Tango N5 and N4 decks at the same time as JP1K or would that be too much?

[jaunty sparrow]

I'm glad it helped! It was a little weird but the best thing I could come up with on the spot lol. But you're not alone there, the issue that 99% of people run into with this method is the intimidation and the discomfort of not understanding. When it comes to our entertainment, we're used to just turning it on and understanding it and it's upsetting to imagine not understanding. But you're totally correct, there's no other way around it. You just have to dive in.

I think it's a pretty good plan to start with! Depending on your comprehension though, reading pure text may be too much of a grind. I recommend leaning more towards Youtube and installing this Chrome extension. https://getiago.com/ It will let you interact with the language and make not understanding a little less painful by being able to look up words. Watching content with Japanese subtitles has the added benefit of improving your reading skill and your listening skill at the same time.

It's recommended to just stick to 1 starter deck. So if you got the JP1K, I would stick with that. Doing more than 1 starter deck is a waste of time and there will be a lot of redundant vocabulary overlap. More Anki does not mean you'll learn words faster. Keep that in mind. Immersion is where the magic happens, not Anki.

With your background, there may be words in JP1K that you already know. If you come across a card where you look at the kanji and know what the word means and how to read it right away, just suspend it. Suspend any cards with words that you know really well to save yourself time. There's no need to study information you already know.

[tepid basalt]

Oh sweet, thanks so much for the resource! I need to subscribe to a bunch of channels, I'm planning on doing that at some point.

Not doing any book studying is gonna feel so weird, ngl 😖

Do you have any tracking apps you recommend? Like for time logging?

Also, would you recommend writing down new words during immersion? To look up and add to anki?

[jaunty sparrow]

No problem! You can browse the seeder playlists to find channels to subscribe to as well https://zenith-raincoat-5cf.notion.site/Japanese-Seeder-Playlist-15fc740a87d843a2a2a5f36a913af551

I imagine it will feel weird at first! But the cool thing is once you have a few hundred hours of input, textbooks and grammar actually make a lot more sense!

I personally recommend Toggl Track https://track.toggl.com/ It gives you a trial of a paid account at first but you're not forced to pay. You can just continue with a free account after the 14 days and you don't lose any functionality.

Physically writing words isn't recommended because it's time consuming without much benefit. Using the iago extension, you can actually add words to a personal word list as you look them up and review them later. iago has its own SRS like Anki.

[tepid basalt]

Brilliant! I just saved some of the seeder playlists to my library, so that'll be a great place to start watching content 😀

I mainly use Firefox - is there iago for it too? Or is it Chrome only? I'll definitely check out toggl!

I'm also planning on setting up my iPod Touch to be my Japanese only device. I'm kinda scared going whole hog and setting the device language to Japanese... For now, I've got folders on my phone in Japanese, no kana, so that's been useful.

[jaunty sparrow]

There are plans to add iago to Firefox eventually but no idea on the timeline. A lot of immersion tools are for Chrome only, so I would recommend getting used to it now and just think of Chrome as your "immersion browser" and Firefox for everything else.

I wouldn't worry about setting device languages to Japanese. It offers little benefit at the cost of a lot of potential frustration trying to do daily tasks.

[tepid basalt]

Ohhhhh great idea! I'll do that