#The new blueprints system neglects true collectors, and how to fix it.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

raven cargo
#

Hello, landowners! As i see it this new system with 130 unique blueprints in Season 1 has practically killed true collectors, who dedicated themselves to discovering blueprints. In the previous system we had 2860 unique blueprints, so 90% (not sure about numbers but feels like) of players had no chance to find even 1/4th of them and they even didn't try much. Now let's consider me. To the change date i personally had 2450 unique ones, and had plans to collect them all. Now all of a sudden there are only 130 of them, so all those 90% now potentially have enough time to get all 130 till the end of season, so my 2450 / 130 = 18.8x effort compared to the majority in the new system is just wiped out (and this was a huge effort, 2 hours playing every day since the beginning, much more in several months from the start, and a lot of planning to be efficient). So that the majority are in slight favor now, and i am in a drastic disadvantage. The same is with other avid collectors i suppose. It's just outrageous and terribly unfair, isn't it? So, i suggest creating a bonus account-wise linked to how many unique blueprints the account had to the date of change. And this should be a permanent bonus ofc (only to season 1 blueprints), cus in the previous system this full collection of season 1 of mine would be permanent, a lifetime advantage over 90% of other guys. Also, the advantage should be really huge, not say x1.25 in my case, but x4-5 idk, similar to my x18.8 effort, something like that, cus this was the case before for which i planned my game. There is a question of what should be this advantage. I am thinking about some sort of shininess or something (like holo\dark holo blueprints burning to the corresponding skins), the probability should depend on the amount of unique blueprint on the previous system. So that true collectors had x4-5 higher probability of getting a shiny (only for season 1 blueprints) compared to guys with much less variety in the previous system.

wind flame
#

Blueprints were never conceived as a collection in themselves, but as a means to get skins/suits and to trade as another way of income. We all knew a lot of time ago that there would be changes and lot of us wanted it to be simplified. It could had been 1 BP for drone and 1 BP for each lvl of armour, so just 7 BP per illuvial instead of 22. This would had been ok for me also. But, as it is something just cosmetic (the end of the science chain), I´m also ok with the new system.
I agree in that there should be some type of recognition to those that supported the old system so much, be it for one reason or another. But I don´t agree in it giving an advantage that would influence in the market so much. We now have a bonding curve, and that ** alone is a big advantage for people with a big quantity of BP**. I "only" have 485 BP, but I bought a MC exclusively for science so quite a big investment also for me.
Our "reward" for that should be something cosmetic in my view (the final goal of BP). Be it like the Fuel Tycoon Border or something that can be used in the ranger in Arena and MMO, but just cosmetic. The bonding curve is a good reward moneywise. Well, more than just 1 border for sure. May be some set of border & portrait depending on the total % achieved as you said or the Illuvials "mini-collections finished". I already had 13 Illuvials with all BP discovered and 3 more about to be finished too.

raven cargo
#

Shinies is cosmetic🤷‍♂️

wind flame
#

I´m sorry, I though you also mean to discover BP

raven cargo
#

No, just a chance to get shiny BP

#

so the curve is the same for all, but the probs of shiny for Season 1 is higher for collectors

wind flame
#

I wouldn´t add shiny things, H/DH would do it and it could match the ranger with the Illuvial pattern.

raven cargo
#

well idk, may be something else, the point is ppl dedicated to collecting in the previous system should have a huge advantage cus they planned in the previous set of rules and were much better than average player, and now this is wiped. very unfair

#

i understand the need to change the system, but the effort and dedication should be rewarded. and the effort was very huge.

#

Unfortunately collectors were unloved all the time, they had no leaderboard with prizes, now this drastic variety shrinking... so sadAtlas_Pepe1

wind flame
#

Intended collection was for skins, not for blueprints

raven cargo
#

but initially skins were derivatives of blueprints 1 to 1, so its the same

wind flame
#

So people collcecting skins should complain, no people collectin blueprints 😉

raven cargo
#

its the same

wind flame
#

No if you didn´t make skins out of your BP

raven cargo
#

Also this argument about advantage of a huge amount of BS is false. Lets consider Sellerus, he was not collecting, but he has a lot of landplots, so now he can have the same 130 blueprints as me (plenty of time still for this till the end of the season 1), but he has much more land to mint them, so he is in favor. But in the previous system i was, cus my variety was much higher than his, and i planned according to this my actions. If the rules are changes in the middle of the game, previous champs should be rewarded somehow, this is fair.

raven cargo
wind flame
#

He must discover them first and because of the bonding curve it will be more difficult for him that it was for you

wind flame
raven cargo
raven cargo
#

so the base collecting was of blueprints

raven cargo
#

its a typical thought of majority now i suppose🤔 those pesky blueprints nerds are disadvantaged, so cool, a present from devs.

wind flame
# raven cargo btw you reaction is expected, cus you like "this guy will have 2450 / 485 = 5 ti...

You are not looking it the right way I think. I said "only" not because of yours, but because it's certainly not a small amount (irony) even if it is 1/5 of yours. 1 person with a T1 may have 10 or 20 and with a T2 may be 50 if they started at the same time than me. Some more if they were dedicated only to T1/2/3 Illuvials. I don´t mind much your advantage over me and I´m not interested in rankings. We still don´t know much about the bonding curve but there are 20k plots. Even if only 700 are being used now and may be 100 are dedicated to science, what 1 account owns doesn´t matter much in the long run.

raven cargo
#

so i demand my deserved advantage in some way, a compensation of changed rules in the middle of a long-long game.

tranquil phoenix
#

Whatever happens happens and I am used to the rules changing in the middle of the game with Illuvium because it has been happening since the beginning. I was researching until i had ever blueprint from a biodata then minting the results. I have over 25 complete sets now i have sets of 22 of the same blueprint. It was a lot of work for that. I would love to see some reward for all of that hard work and dedication to the game.

raven cargo
# tranquil phoenix Whatever happens happens and I am used to the rules changing in the middle of th...

Yes, ser, you are right, rules change all the time in Illuvium games. But one thing is rules change in Arena, its transient, nobody puts in a lot of time, effort and money in one set of rules in Arena, and a price of transition is low, you just get yourself accustomed to the new set of rules. But this blueprints shrinking is a totally other scale of change, i spent 1.5 year, a lot of effort and money (i bought 21 plots T2 on the initial sale to specifically collect blueprints by the old set of rules) playing by the previous set of rules to be one of the best in the game, and now i am grounded to be like 90% of other guys. Its a very dirty game, feels like a rug pull.

#

I suppose in the Arena example it would be like you are collecting illuvials with best stats and spend tons of time to level them to the max to have advantage over the masses, but one day the rules are changed and illuvials are now all the same, no diff in stats and levels, so you spent all your time, effort and money for nothing, something like that.

distant fiber
#

I am (was?!) a blueprint collector - focussed on the drone BPs. I got them all except for many of the lynx ones. I purposefully ignored the suits when we heard the BPs might change; I thought the drone BPs would stay unique. It sure took a damn long time to collect them all, plus I didn’t get a chance to mint too many of the higher tiers, so I’m annoyed that their drone uniqueness disappeared. It was a gamble that clearly hasn’t paid off. I have to digest the details of the new system and what positives it will bring before deciding on this “fix” idea.

raven cargo
# distant fiber I am (was?!) a blueprint collector - focussed on the drone BPs. I got them all e...

Yeah, sure, take your time to assess what the new system brings to the table. As for me, i see that it drastically harmed my collection, brought me on the same page with guys who spent much less effort, time, money on getting unique blueprints, i am not happy with this at all. And i think implementing shiny blueprints/skins and their distribution with probabilities proportional to the variety of collection in the old system (only for season 1, others shouldn't be affected cus all people are on the same page with the same rules and can decide to spend time-money-effort on the collection or not) is not a huge technical issue at all, we just need to insist on this. I think this would be a good compensation to collectors.

#

But ofc other mechanics are possible, shinies is just the most obvious. This post is mostly about the existing problem of rug pull (not full-fledged ofc, but still) of collectors and that it surely needs attention from devs.

copper matrix
#

I don't have nearly as many BPs as most of you. Like you, I bought my land for skins and to support my own runs. I started making skins, saw the DAO making some out of thin air and found out there would be changes and mostly stopped with BPs/skins. Some of my skins were pretty pricey as the Illuvials at the time I made them were still high for the T5 S3.

Anyhow, I looked on the Illuvidex and I have 146 BPs, 47 Unique skins that I made, 26 Unique drone skins that I made. Not including the DAO made skins.

Creating BPs took time and it took resources that could have been put into fuel production, so I understand why you are unhappy. With BPs being consumable now, you will at least have an advantage of starting with more than pretty much everyone else. I get that you no longer have a lot of different collectibles, but you aren't on the same page as someone like me who didn't put in the time or effort, because I only have 146 BPs to burn instead of 2,450. I do feel you still have an advantage, it is just different than what you thought it would be when you made them, which isn't fair, but unfortunately the team is trying to fix past mistakes and build something that has a hope of success.

raven cargo
#

The effort of some collectors was too huge to just neglect it, this would be bad karma to the project.

#

You rug pull once, you already are ready to do it another time, and another, and it all ends with the sentiment to Illuvium as a shady project where players are deceived a lot, you can't trust it.

distant fiber
raven cargo
#

Hi sir @candid epoch . Sorry for bothering you, i understand you are a very busy man, but "desperate times call for desperate measures". Are you aware of the problem raised in the initial post here? If you were not, you are now. Could you please share your thoughts on this? Is there any chance that you would task devs with finding a solution to compensate loss of value to the collectors in the previous system? Cuz as i see it now, collectors who made a huge collection in the previous set of rules are scapegoats whose interests are sacrificed to atone for the design errors of the team for the greater good and bright future of the project. Thanks.

tribal flame
#

The change is extremely painful, but for blueprint collectors we do need to at least acknowledge we still have a significant head-start.

We have on-chain blueprints for everything we've collected (2k+ blueprints) plus off-chain blueprints for everything we minted during that time (1k+ easily).

How much advantage that gives us depends entirely on the bonding curve, which we know absolutely nothing about yet.

I would love some sort of recognition, compensation, fun NFT, or anything for all the time and dedication to their previous game.....but seems unlikely.

raven cargo
#

and one-time compensation with an NFT is sooo little compared to the effort and initial promise.

tribal flame
# raven cargo and one-time compensation with an NFT is sooo little compared to the effort and ...

I see it a little different. I wouldn't want them to design a whole new system around legacy players and do not expect to be made whole after this....games change after all and the intention is to attract new players, not cater to old-timers.

Any acknowledgement of our effort and dedication to the game they originally designed would go a long ways and there are extremely easy ways they could do something small to thank us vs just blowing it off like no one cares.

raven cargo
#

i mean they could make those shinies so rare, that even your or mine x4-5 probability compared to an average collector would be nothing to the market. its a question of acknowledgement of the effort.

#

feeling that you deserved a huge reward after a huge effort and stand out accordingly, even if monetary it is not that much.

#

also it would affect only season 1, nothing more

#

and i don't think its that hard to add shiny effect on skins made from shiny blueprints technically. i am sure there will be shiny skins sooner or later.

raven cargo
# wind flame Blueprints were never conceived as a collection in themselves, but as a means to...

Hmm, i see you made some corrections to your post since initial version which i read. Or i was too furious to read it to the end initially😅 Well, one-time reward is not what i would like and hoped for buying 21 land and spending all my time and effort, but at least i like the idea that it is proportional to the size of the collection, that's already something. i would except it as a wors case scenario.

solemn fjord
#

Apologies, I think we had a very cool economic design for transferring this system to remove the awful suit differentiation but still give every niche of collector atleast something. Went over it with @boreal mulch many times. But I wasnt persuasive enough

Would have been more effort of course, nothing comes for free

raven cargo
solemn fjord
raven cargo
solemn fjord
raven cargo
#

ah, i see...

#

so, this is final, and it is pointless to ask or demand for any corrections?

#

may be at least some one-time reward in the style Sergioytc suggested?

#

cus now it looks too cruel, just wiping avid collectors completely

solemn fjord
raven cargo
raven cargo
solemn fjord
raven cargo
wind flame
raven cargo
raven cargo
#

like if you had 30 unique blueprints, its 1.0001^30 = 1.003, if you had 2000 unique, its 1.0001^2000 = 1.22

#

ofc the numbers and formula could be something else, its the principle that matters

solemn fjord
raven cargo
#

well, you are devs, you are clever. i am sure you can find some solution, its just a question of a will to find a solutionPho_Haha

#

but doesn't the idea of collecting suggest that the more variety you have, the better is you collection? nobody collects one identical thing i suppose...

#

its a bit crazy... but idk

#

also those who collected one thing by minting it again and again already have an advantage, considering the curve.

#

i for example had 2450 unique blueprints discovered, but only a fraction of them minted, only once (except 2 of 3 which i minted twice by mistake)

hoary wadi
raven cargo
#

also say one guy had 22 Archie Battlesuits minted, and i had a full collection of blueprints for Archie, all 22, and of each i had 1 minted. we ended equal in the current system, both have 22 Archie blueprints, but my effort in this collection was 22 times higher, cus i discovered all of them!

#

So i feel like i deserve something huge and permanent for my x22 effort compared to the guy. a x22 prob of minting a shiny Archie blueprint would be just i think.

#

but the exact quantity doesn't matter, let it be i have a 90% prob to mint 1 shiny Archie blueprint in a year, and this guy in 22 years.

#

its a principle of me better than him thanks to my effort which matters.

#

if x22 is too steep, ok, let it be x5, its still not very just to me, but still better than it is now

raven cargo
# hoary wadi

that could be because this guy had all 22 Rhamphyre blueprints discovered, he minted 2 for all of them and 3 for some, so he got 59 in the end.

solemn fjord
# raven cargo also say one guy had 22 Archie Battlesuits minted, and i had a full collection o...

Not sure if someone who was focused on minting mass of any archie blueprint would agree with this math, who knows

Only thing which comes to mind for me is that there was a differentiation in blueprint acquisition across suit tiers and even a mass minter would maybe agree that higher tier suits deserve more blueprint stacks off chain, but you could then make the same argument on chain and thats very hard to do

hoary wadi
raven cargo
# hoary wadi nah, that guy minted them

yep, don't 22 different minted blueprints of Rhamphyre from the past convert to 22 Rhamphyre blueprints now? so he having 59 now could mean a lot, he could have 2 unique in the past, 3, etc, till 22.

hoary wadi
raven cargo
hoary wadi
#

just wana say, there can be many different reasons for people doing what they did.
Some might go for variety in blueprints, some might go for high tier high stage, some might go only for looks, so might go for low tier low stage, some might have stopped science and went for fuel when they saw that the dao is selling skins aswell, some might stopped science and went for fuel when the read the discussions about changing the whole blueprint system.
There are many ways/reasons to speculate for specific things because xyz outcome is expected.

(by the way, all of the above are not theoretical examples but what at least a couple people did.)

raven cargo
#

Effort of mass minter is much less than that of a variety collector, thats for sure.

raven cargo
#

what a hellish task to make this all justAtlas_Dead

#

lets wipe out everything from everyone then, start from scratchPho_Haha but this is already impossible cus migration has finished

hoary wadi
raven cargo
#

well at least minter got what they minted and bonding curve, they got something. what i got is x22 reduction of value of my collection.

#

well not 22, cus it was not finished, 18.8

#

so those guys who minted several blueprints a lot are in huge favor as a result, and i am in a huge disadvantage

copper matrix
raven cargo
copper matrix
raven cargo
#

i lost before in lots of projects, some were scams, some just didn't deliver and died. i started to have this feeling about Illuvium, this was very dark feeling.

raven cargo
# hoary wadi just wana say, there can be many different reasons for people doing what they d...

Wait, but isn't it true that the most loss in the transition happened in the variety of blueprints, so the main metric of compensation should be how many unique blueprints a wallet had in the previous system? In this metric, "Some might go for variety in blueprints", "some might go for high tier high stage", "so might go for low tier low stage", "some might have stopped science and went for fuel when they saw that the dao is selling skins aswell", "some might stopped science and went for fuel when the read the discussions about changing the whole blueprint system" are all the same, its a game after all, for whatever reason people stopped to discover or had no enough plots to discover a lot, this is up to them, should buy more lands, should not stop loosing hope🤷‍♂️ . The only outlier is "some might go only for looks", not sure what to do in this case, this is not an urge to get them all, just beautiful ones to them...🤔 But in the case of beauty, skins are sitll there, there was only one skin per illuvial, so they lost nothing. There was no beauty metrics among blueprins of the same illuvial, they were all the same, only words describing suit type were different.

#

those beauty lovers would get something unexpectedly for their variety (though small, may be) if the reward for variety was implemented, how good is that!

hoary wadi
raven cargo
hoary wadi
hoary wadi
raven cargo
hoary wadi
raven cargo
#

well if its the case, then guys hunting for beauty will still get something from rewards for variety🤷‍♂️

#

or let's compensate beauty, i had them all in my collection😉

#

except Lesser Monkier, he was the last one for blueprints discovery, didnt start researching him.

raven cargo
raven cargo
raven cargo
raven cargo
# solemn fjord Not sure if someone who was focused on minting mass of any archie blueprint woul...

What about giving a permanent booster to every landowner proportional to variety of their previous collection (may be some other metrics of it, i just cant imagine other one except variety), which they can apply once in a moth or a year (up to devs to decide the period and exact numbers, shouldn't be too huge to vex players not having them) to the distribution from the special or generic parts pool to their favor?🤔

#

also the booster could be a tradable NFT🤔

tranquil phoenix
# raven cargo Yes, ser, you are right, rules change all the time in Illuvium games. But one th...

I agree, as a landholder i continually get screwed. Here are the big 3 1. bought land as an investment in the project hoping for a return. 2. I figured even if I didnt make anything I could use the fuel my land made to play overworld 3. I have spent countless hours and resources researching biodata (22 per Illuvial) to get blueprints. Then I spent the time and resources to mint those 22 blueprints each and now I have 22 of the same blueprint. I guess I am just getting used to it FYI I dont play Arena, Im not a fan of auto battlers.

raven cargo
# tranquil phoenix I agree, as a landholder i continually get screwed. Here are the big 3 1. bough...

Yeah, i also don't play Arena, it was just an example of a principal difference between one type of change of rules and the other. I feel you, i also have collected all 3 "screws". Well i hope may be we will be able to play MMO financing it with our lands tho. We will see about it. And i hope the team will find a way to compensate collectors some loss of value somehow in the blueprints collection:)

#

And the return from lands can appear i suppose, if MMO is a successIlluvium_Logo