Synergy Crates

[pearl patio]

As it currently is, synergy crates have 2 options tailored to our board and 1 random. Those crates are extremely powerful and not getting the best thing you could automatically puts you at a giant disadvantage compared to the rest of the lobby

As only what's on the board matter for the tailoring, players found a way to force 100% what they need by benching all units but 1 before opening a crate

This was unintended and it does feel wrong but now that this feature is about to be "fixed" and include units on the bench it begs the question, is that what we really want?

RNG is important in an autobattler but like we've discussed before there are good kinds of RNG and bad ones (where its raw RNG without any control or feeling of control from the player) and this feature would be a bad one because theres no control over it and its literally game deciding

Imagine early game playing rogues and your best choice is fire while half of the lobby got they optimal chip and your rogue opponent got rogue chip. You can now top 5-6, do you surrender or you already consider uninstalling?

Now if you were on the good half side of the synergy crates so far and get late game imagine that you are winning the game and are currently 1v1 but get a composite crate. With that type of crate all options are trash but theres 1 that makes your whole comp x2 stronger

I completely agree that its wrong that good players bench all their units super fast to choose what they want but the fix incoming will make it even worst

I would like to suggest 2 options here

1️⃣ put the crate on the unit of your choice, choose between the 2 synergies or composite synergies of that units line

2️⃣ get 4 (like legendary items) choices, ALL tailored to your units

[still stump]

I'd be happy with either. Too much control makes me feel like it should simply become a part of the games mechanics, rather than be a crate at all.

[scenic finch]

prefer 1 but 2 is also a huge improvement while maybe aligning more with what the devs want to achieve

[valid ocean]

I like both suggestions, but nr2 is probably best aligned with the crate concept, of being somewhat random, but having 4 options reduces the chance of not getting something you can use… If going with option nr 1, I think it could be made without involving the crate at all. (Voted for both, because I think an improvement is needed).

[red ocean]

With the 2nd option I will sell units on my board & bench to control it, that would still be better than only 2 tailored composites but it would be far from ideal

[still stump]

Unironically if we add 5-10 new Illuvial lines, it'll be more balanced and we won't need crates at all

Or maybe Lynxes can be worked in somehow, maybe they can be more customised for composites. Eg they can take either a composite class or affinity, but not both.

balancing around turning an illuvial into any broken combo u want, is kind of nuts tbh.

[scenic finch]

yea this could be true

[scenic finch]

but would you want to take away this aspect? probs more balance yea but maybe big part of some of the fun is adding class/affinity to an illuvial and see how it buffs it

[still stump]

How I view it is this.

People want to have their cake and eat it too.

You either make it fun and chaotic, and therefore unbalanced. Or you make it balanced and remove some of the fun.

You pick a strategy and go with it. This entire conversation misses that point. A truly balanced game isn't really as fun.

Take chess for example. If you know every move and maneuvre and make no mistakes you technically stalemate every game. This sort of perfect balance isn't as dynamic or repeatable imo.

The fun is in mastering your memory, not in dynamically changing your strategy.

[scenic finch]

I think how it was before with lots of composite chips = too chaotic and unbalanced. I think the well tailored synergy crates aren't too chaotic

Maybe thats why i like auto chess 8 man lobbies and not chess since i prefer the dynamic change in strategy and not memory test

but without adding illvials, you think patates options are better than current set up right?

[still stump]

I like them both, but probably prefer 2.

My concern is that nothing can ever truly be balanced. The problem with 1 is that if there is a 4 composite thats good, it'll be abused very very very fast.

Guaranteeing a chip this way is pretty mental. But at the same time I agree the setup rn breaks the game a bit too much since someone can win off rng alone in a certain sense.

I maintain the pool is too limited, which is why this rng plays such a role at all. Any changes to it, are simply putting a bandaid, rather than actually trying to prevent the bleeding.

[scenic finch]

the composite crates are so rare that it cant really be abused thankfully

[still stump]

Then why not remove them? I feel like they are so rare they are kind of not apart of the game at all tbh

[scenic finch]

i think you need those moments to make it addictive or whatever you want to call it. Similar to hitting a S3T5, doesnt happen very often but when it does it makes a big memory. Same with hitting say 6 ar 6 fire in same team due to crates or having a legendary item ect

but the rareness of the composite chips balances the possible abuse of them while still allowing those moments

[still stump]

I see your point but disagree its the same.

For example with Illuvials you still have the stepping stones. In the middle ground u get the Tier 4 S2+ every now and then.

With composite chips its 0-100, not much of a middle ground.

Idk I feel it happens so infrequently now I feel it doesnt even exist hahaha.

[scenic finch]

kind of agree yea but i guess the middle ground is it only happens late game if at all

im usually more bias to adding chaos to the game though haha, despite it not being as balanced

[still stump]

I love adding chaos as well. as a more casual player I personally miss the synergy crates.

Honestly the most fun I had was when I could create fun busted shit, every second game.

The change removing it has made the game way less fun for me. Its insanely predictable and consistent now and its kind of meh.

When a game is singleplayer, balance kills it (for the casual audience). You can balance a game like League because the teamwork elements of it add so much chaos.

[scenic finch]

it is also kind of nice not having to stress about manipulating the tailoring after playing a few games, can see why they made the changes

[red ocean]

I beg to differ, now the optimal play is to sell units sometimes like early game for basic chip and late game for composite chips

[scenic finch]

yea super early game bit easier but it gets hard real quick since you will never be able to guarntee anything unless you sell almost your whole board right?

[red ocean]

It still has positive value to sell some things on your bench that you kept to contest or to potentially pivot, or just a stage 3 that you're looking for but you only have a stage 1 on the bench so you sell it to increase your odds

[scenic finch]

yea for sure to increase your odds but ive found its still so far from having great odds as to may aswell be fully random