Illuvial collection 2.0

[dawn anchor]

This is the Illuvials Collection v2, that expands alot further into the idea.

We will have a main progression tree and branch offs for any future games we have. The idea is that illuvials are at the core of our universe and everything is based around them.

The main progression tree would have 5 different branches for each affinity. We progress it based on 3 metrics

1. first tier of progression - requires players to own all illuvials, regardless of tpi and levels

2. the second tier is progressed through maximizing the tpi & levels of the players collection

3. third tier is progressed through owning all colored version of each illuvials (one slot for holo and one slot for dark holo).

4. a hybrid branch off between tier 2 & 3 that is progressed based on TPI, levels and a colored finish at the same time. This would be the end game for collectors and whales, rewards here can be season based as to stimulate competitiveness for people who are more interested into collecting.

5. a competitive branch off for Gauntlet - the main progression here depends on how well we perform in Gauntlet, our leaderboard placement at the end of the season + a multiplier from the main tree to get to your final rewards for the season. The ranked leaderboard remains fully competitive, only the seasonal rewards would scale with the multiplier from the main tree.

The idea would be to have a long progression for the main tree, kind of like an account progression track to own all illuvials of all types. Most of the rewards here would be one time claimable, with the exception of the hybrid branch between tiers 2&3 for the seasonal collector/whale wars.

For the competitive branch off, we can use seasonal rewards that refresh per 3 months to keep the competition hot. We can go ham with the rewards, as using the multiplier from the main tree ties the rewards to revenue spent for the DAO + protects us from botting and multi accounting.

For the rewards we should go big - exclusive armor skins, battle boards, legendary weapon skins (maybe one per account?), battle boards, fuel, etc. These are the standard ones.

I would like us to introduce more gameplay rewards, that can be both used by players in game and also be liquid on the market at the same time due to their effect/exclusivity. This way we can replace using ilv as a liquid reward and can move to more gameplay oriented ones. The idea is to move away from using ilv as the primary source of rewards.

I've came up with 3 suggestions that cover this criteria - XP crates tier 1-5, disassembler tier 1-5 (burning tech) and +1 stat orbs tier 1-5.

These rewards would be extremely rare, especially the tier 5 ones and issued once per 3 seasons. For the highest ones only the top players would qualify, while also having a very decent collection multiplier.

These rewards would have real market value, would cost the DAO nothing to just mint them each season, they would replace ilv to a large extend, and be able to be scaled to a growing playerbase infinitely.

That way players will have a choice if they want to use these rewards themselves to progress further, or sell them on the market.

This proposal targets everyone - collectors, whales, competitive players and f2p players looking at building up their team slowly. Everyone would have something to work towards. Any reward we give is tied to how completed your collection is and by that to revenue to the DAO.

The main progression tree would start hollow and grey and it obtains its color as we progress further. Different reward nodes are along it's branches that we obtain with our collection progression. As illuvials are meant to be at the center of all our games - this tree can be in the middle, as the main progression hub and is surrounded by adjacent trees for our games (currently that would be Gauntlet and the MMO, but since we don't know much about that, I haven't integrated it yet).

More details can be found here - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1OJ_bIAX7a9KP6K1AHoJAvVFvRJvG-3JfGAd9Ps3z428/edit?usp=drivesdk

In a nutshell

We will have 1 main rewards progression tree just based on how complete a collection is, the stats, levels and colored finish (almost endless progression)

And a separate branch out to that, that is progressed through playing Gauntlet competitively + a collection multiplier from the main one (again, almost endless progression, due to live competiting against other players).

The current top 100 rewards can remain or be replaced by that system, up for discussion.

The goal would be:

1. Create a constant demand and utility for illuvials, in order to obtain character progression and season based competitive rewards

2. This system will also act as an invisible and smooth bridge towards ownership and competing in Leviathan. Some players will start to collect for the rewards, but will at some point find themselves having a worthy collection of competing in our flag mode as well, even if they didn't plan to eventually

3. It gives purpose to collect for players who don't like the p2w aspect of Leviathan. This way, they can play the balanced ranked version of Gauntlet, and still benefit utility for owning illuvials and participating in the ecosystem.

4. It can be a very good progression system and give players purpose and guidance towards something they have to work for, both in collecting and playing the game.

5. Good prevention/damage control to multi accounting, and at the same time good way to control and keep valuable rewards away from botting, and keeping the competition fair for everyone.

6. Our rewards scheme can be scaled to a much larger playerbase than the current top 100. We can still keep that, but this way we can cover even 10k players or more. And keep them all engaged and entertained. We also don't have to depend entirely on the token for that.

7. We can easily integrate the MMO and any future game

[dawn anchor]

A quick idea that came to mind is:

• progressing the first basic tier can give the tree it's color
• progressing the second tier can yield fruits on each affinity branch that are claimable once per season as they grow (we will still have the different branch nodes, but most will be one time unlockables only, while the fruits will grow each season). The better we take care of our tree (progression) the juicier the fruits!
• the final third tier can give the tree it's glow among other perks (by that time a players collection is almost fully complete).

We can go ham with the rewards, because they are tied to our collection, revenue for the DAO, and how immersed a player is into the eco - whether for collecting, for competing or both.

[tall umbra]

In a nutshell, I support the proposed progression tree, but I’d like it to encompass the entire Illuvium ecosystem, including the Beyond collection as well as the development of research in Illuvium Zero—such as discovering illuvials and gathering biodata. Overall, I really like the idea and I’m hopeful for its implementation and further development.

[dawn anchor]

We can integrate Zero as well anytime, I would like it to be further developed into a full game first that incorporates the illuvials more into it's gameplay for it to be connected to the main tree. But this can take years, as other projects are with prio right now. In any case, if we figure out a way to integrate Zero in it's current format, in an interesting and engaging way, I'm all for it.

The idea is all our future games to be connected to the main tree, if the vision remains for illuvials to be a vital part of each.

For Beyond, I don't think we should integrate it as it has it's own competition infrastructure with leaderboard already, which is based on illuvitar collection, not illuvials and was always meant to be somewhat outside of the eco.

[mint narwhal]

Good job structuring all of this for us to comprehend @dawn anchor that's a big idea!

For those who wonder, yes this is a similar proposal to the first Illuvial Collection idea we discussed last week

Nasty came to me with this idea and we discussed it with some other community members to flesh it out

The first proposal is being held off until this thread/IIP gets the visibility it needs. If this one too reaches an IIP with 25 👍 we will push both at the same time for IMC to decide which one they want

---

On a personal note, the tree system is a very interesting idea. I like how it makes the illuvials the real center of the ecosystem, even to a point where its like this is the main thing and then the games complete it. I fear it may be seen as too complex and dev work heavy at this moment but thats for IMC to assess if it gets up to vote

As for the rewards i agree and love all sort of rewards that are not $ to $ cost for the DAO. Gameplay progression rewards makes a ton of sense here because its directly tied to continued to invest in the ecosystem (in that leaderboard). Im a bit concerned with +1 stats orb or straight to lvl60 xp bottles but i can understand how it may be fine if its only for the top leaderboard and very rare. Im open to discuss it further when we move up to the next stage

The first thread that i did didnt include such rewards and aimed to only start by rewarding via F2P arena current non-$ to $ rewards because i feel it what has the best chance to pass atm when the imc/team focus on reducing rewards/onboarding f2p arena players. I also feel that even collectors only benefit directly from this because it would be the most efficient way to onboard new blood into the ecosystem + first step towards leviathan (imo)

Good job again nasty for brining this up, i know youve put a lot of work into it. Im looking forward for the discussion with the community, council and team regarding this!

[ivory glacier]

Illuvials are at the core of the entire ecosystem so this leaderboard should be the most important one

Like Patate I hope it will be player-friendly and not too difficult to implement, I'm still worried about the +1 stat orbs that would make sense in a regular game but less sense in our economy

Besides that it looks well thought out, well done!

[dawn anchor]

Thank you both @ivory glacier and @mint narwhal for your feedback. The +1 stat orbs are just an idea, it can be discussed further as there are also other people who are concerned about it.

But it covers super nicely the criteria of being both usable and demanded in-game while also being liquid to sell. Then it would be each player choice what to do with theirs (if they even qualify for them).

If we can come up with more such rewards that cover this criteria it would be great, the more the better

[upbeat gust]

I am putting a thumbs down on this idea.

@dawn anchor you have done a lot of work on this and I appreciate the idea as a whole for two main reasons - it puts the focus on to Illuvials, which is where the focus should be and the rewards are not paid out in ILV. You would have my thumbs up except for one thing - you have put in a possible reward as a +1 stat.

I don't want to put a thumbs up to a proposal that contains this, no matter how good the rest is. I know you told @ivory glacier that it would be up for discussion but once our thumbs up are on this, current council, or future council - depending on how long this takes to come to fruition, can point to this as community agreement to the proposal as presented.

We are a Web3 game. We are supposed to be building on blockchain. We are supposed to be selling people the confidence that what they put their money into is immutable. Changing stats destroys that foundation. It kills trust in Illuvium. We have people who are making decisions with a lot of money based on these stats and a 1 stat difference can make a large difference in price and rarity.

Before anyone comes at me about this being about my own bags - you are right and wrong. Yes, it is true that I have purchased a number of perfect Illuvials solely for the rarity of 100 TPI. I did that trusting that stats would not change.
Change stats and my trust in this game is gone. I said that during the entire TPI conversation before. Having spoken to others about this, I know I am not the only one who feels this way.
Where you are wrong is that I would see a benefit either way. I would love to drop a stat to my Blazenite that is missing one health stat from being 100 TPI. However, that would be completely unfair to the person who does own a perfect Blazenite and who paid more than twice as much as I did in order to get that 100 TPI. I am not thinking only of my self when I refuse to budge on this issue.

[dawn anchor]

Hi Torial, thank you for the feedback. I will try to answer on my thoughts on it with as much detail as I can.

Indeed you, among several other people have shared this opinion about the +1 stat orbs, and I don't understand it honestly. So we can brainstorm it together, everyone can participate.

1. I disagree that the orbs will reduce the value or rarity of perfect tpi illuvials as an absolute statement. The only way this happens is if we have a playerbase stagnation, and there is no demand/buy pressure on such illuvials.

This proposal's idea is to do the opposite. It aims to both increase our playerbase and increase demand for illuvials, especially good/max tpi ones through the progression tree.

Let's say we issue 50 orbs, and it reduces the value/rarity of max tpis by 5% (not all orbs will be used on 4/5 or almost perfect illuvials, but that's another story). Let's say at the same time we increase our playerbase and demand for illuvials by 1000% (to something like 5k, not even that impossible).

1. reduce value/rarity by ~ 5%
2. increase demand by 1000% (that would be 5000 players, not even that much).

Both of these are theoretical, but it's the goal of this proposal, to increase the playerbase and provide additional demand/utility for our illuvials. In this case, would the value/rarity of existing tpis drop at all? To me it looks like it will actually increase exponentially.

There are not enough existing illuvials right now to even fully complete a single tree for 1 player. What about for 10 000 players? What about for 100 000 players? Would the 50 or so stat orbs every once in a while cover the additional demand from such playerbase + the demand from this proposal?

In my opinion we should think how to implement this proposal to give it's best fighting chance to achieve it's main 2 goals - onboard new players + make them go after ownership, and not who spent how much already. If we cover the 2 main goals and are successful at them, the rarity/value of everyone's illuvials will only go up for the foreseeable future, not down.

And if we can't increase our playerbase and make more people spend - la muzika finito, perfect or not perfect tpi it will all go to zero.

Furthermore we have to also consider the following - the existing players with great collections already, such as youself, would have a head start over everyone else. Meaning for the first few seasons, people with already strong collections would be getting the strongest rewards, until others can slowly catch up. In this regard it would be a big advantage.

Based on these points, I fail to understand how the stat orbs and this proposal would end up being net negative for anyone. The only case this can happen is if our playerbase stagnates in it's current numbers, which would mean we are rekt already and it doesn't matter. Otherwise we should observe the opposite effect.

And finally, this is just the idea-feedback 💡 post. It's meant to discuss it. We can remove the stat orbs for the official proposal, if that's what everyone thinks and we can include other types of rewards that cover the needed criteria

We have 200 or so illuvials that we need max tpis for. A few stat orbs per season, with an increasing playerbase, would be like a small drop in the bucket. There is just so many things to progress.

And that is why it's suggested that this is a seasonal competitive reward with great exclusivity and not sold in a store or a battle pass for example. Because this way we have absolute control over how many pieces we want to distribute over what period in order not to wrecked the existing playerbase. We have full control over it. Then it's a matter of fine tuning.

Anyways that's my opinion on them. If the community is against them we will get rid of them and put something else in. We can try to come up with other options in their place 🙏

[ivory glacier]

"Let's say we issue 50 orbs, and it reduces the value/rarity of max tpis by 5% (not all orbs will be used on 4/5 or almost perfect illuvials, but that's another story). Let's say at the same time we increase our playerbase and demand for illuvials by 1000% (to something like 5k, not even that impossible)."

The boost in demand won't be caused only by orb rewards but by all the rewards including status which is probably underestimated (people can do insane things for status)

The destiny of a +1 stat orb is to be sold on the marketplace to Alexa or other whales so that they use it on their T5S3 dark holos in order to get the most value out of it
It's not like a regular game where players will casually use it on their favorite illuvials because it doesn't have monetary value
Here, most of them will be rational enough to value $1000 over $10 + emotional attachment

I have one of the best collections in the game, the best rogue collection and one of the best Rhamphyres at the moment but it lacks 1 RES and 1 MS
If I had a stat orb I wouldn't even use it, I would just sell it to Alexa even though I would have mixed feelings about it because I would want to use it on my Rhamphyre but it would be wasted

[dawn anchor]

You are absolutely right, the demand will not come by the stat orb alone, it will come from the entire system. But the orb is probably the reward that fits the required criteria the best out of any other reward. At least for me is hard to think of something better than it.

What you said about it being sold is also probably true in most cases, but isn't this the idea? To move away from paying with tokens like a job and move to a gameplay version? And if Alexa wants to spend 1k on a stat orb, who cares, it's their decision. Alexa will always be on the top, with or without the stat orbs.

And in your case, you should use it yourself since you are both a competitive player and a tournament player. But that's the beauty, everyone can choose themselves. And some people won't care for selling it, they will use it on their own illuvials and not care for making profit

[upbeat gust]

You didn't address the number one reason I am against this - as a web3 game we are pushing the idea of immutability and you are proposing to take that away. Might as well be a Web2 game - you can own something but we can change it at any time so you don't really own what you bought.

Rarity - It is an absolute statement. Using Blazenite as an example again - There are currently two 100 TPI Blazenites in the ecosystem. If I drop a +1 Stat on my Blazenite there would now be 3. Having a 1 out of 3 is less rare than having a 1 out of 2.

I don't think giving new people a +1 stat is going to make the difference of onboarding or not onboarding them but I do think offering it alienates those who have already been playing. Trying to get new customers at the expense of loyal customers is never a good business decision. A business must ALWAYS think of those who have already spent money.

[dawn anchor]

Apologies, I will address that too. We are a video game project after all. It does not matter if it's web2 or web3 - it's a game, we need entertaining product. Playing and evolving your own stuff is entertaining for me personally. And there is similar progression systems in every game I've played so far. Being web3 does not change the fact that, we are still a video game project.

Rarity - so if we are using your examples, we do not include the stat orb, but we get 10 000 new players, and they all start running OW/ADRs. Suddenly there are now 20 100 TPI Blazenite, instead of 2, thus reducing the "rarity" by 10x. Does that mean onboarding 10 000 paying players is a bad thing since we have more than 2 max tpi Blazenite now?

And I don't agree on the onboarding part either.

• stat orbs will be a great tool for players interested in playing the game and evolving their collection (I think so as a gamer myself)
• they will also work for players who want to sell them, kind of p2e, or to sponsor their collection further.

And as I mention, the whole proposal covers illuvials demand already, which combined with an increasing playerbase will only increase the rarity/value of illuvials, not decrease it, thus covering early adopters more than anyone else.

And finally, early adopters will be the ones benefitting the most from this in the early seasons. So how are we screwing them as a business?

[upbeat gust]

" It does not matter if it's web2 or web3 "

So why did we take the hard way and build web3?

[dawn anchor]

I think for the gameplay it does not matter.

What we can use web3 for is the ownership part and having player driven economy. Those are great perks by themselves

[upbeat gust]

And imo ownership is only relevant if the asset you buy can not be randomly changed because some people in the community decide that they want better assets or that offering better assets to newcomers will be a lure. We all knew going in that levels would be changed as we progressed but not stats. We should honour that.

Anyhow, I have had my say and I feel I will just be repeating myself if I continue. I will leave the thread open for others. Thanks for taking the time to answer my objections.🙂

[dawn anchor]

I think ownership is relevant for as long as you have control over an asset, which you have spent alot of time working on. This is perfect for video games.

I'm not trying to improve my own collection through the stat orbs if that was implied 😅 but it will absolutely have an onboarding effect.

If it wouldn't, why do we have top 100 rewards? The problem for those is we cannot scale them to any significant amounts to cover thousands of people.

With the suggested proposal and rewards we can.

And it's not a do or die, if others feel strongly against them, we can ditch them in place of something else

[oak gate]

+1strongly against them 🙃

[dawn anchor]

Can I ask, because of personal bias, or because you think they will have overall a negative impact on the project, and make people less interested in ownership, even less than now?

And it's ok to be the first after spending alot of time and effort, I just wonder

[upbeat gust]

I don't imply. If I thought that was what you were doing I would say it outright.

[oak gate]

not because of personal bias, i could actually use them myself quite well to increase (short term) value and sell some illuvials with perfect stats.(i guess best example would be the 99tpi titanor)
I think the main thing the +1 stat orb will do is make rare stuff less rare, with that decreasing the desire to keep on hunting the perfect assets (almost perfect is fine aswell, just need an orb and i'm good). Instead of increasing playtime as it might suggest in a first glimpse, i think it decreases playtime.
It will also decrease the top ceiling value of assets, which in my opinion is always a good thing to have. (kinda like the most expensive stuff should be as expensive as possible just for marketing purposes)
Can for example check the dex, where currently not even 1 perfect stat illuvial exist of some of the rare ones, this would change immediately and you will have multiple.

I also (very personally) don't think Illuvials should be something like every other should have the chance to get a complete deck of perfect stat holo dark holo max level illuvials. I much rather appreciate the continuous improvement thing to have the best but no cap, another always can surpass you

But... i do see where you are coming from, and i have the feeling there's plenty of opportunity to implement similar things for features in the MMO (or even more in Zero if we at some point start actually developing it again)

[dawn anchor]

But it wouldn't change immediately, the first rewards would be distributed at the end and of the first season after implementation.

And currently, most of our players don't care at all for ownership. What if that changes and everyone is after good tpis? You can then have multiple more perfects, but they will be scooped by someone for their own collection. And we are back at none at the dex.

I also don't understand how we will be making stuff less rare, decrease the desire to hunt or reduce playtime. In my head all of those metrics are the opposite and they would increase

If the proposal is done right the demand for illuvials will skyrocket. Combine that with an increasing playerbase. Everything would be scooped from the dex rather quick. There are no more good ones on the marketplace, what then? We have to farm the new ones.

All of these should increase top ceiling of good tpis, increase desire to hunt and play, as especially in the beginning through all the extra demand, there will be possibility for earning, if the demand is larger than the supply. The desire will increase, not decrease 🤔

[oak gate]

For example
currently there are 12 TPI-100 T5 Illuvials minted
most t5 don't even have a 100TPI version yet.
After first season and you would issue 50 orbs, you would easely tripple that amount.

Me for example, i run a lot of crimson waste (not care too much about the bountyhunt), hoping i find good rhamphys to fuse a great rhamphyre.
With orbs in the game, i would just run brightland for easy movement and lvl up my illuvials, cause i just fuse a rhamphyre with what i have and then make it great with orbs.
If i wouldn't have the need to level i would just stop running at all.

looking for those specific assets is like searching for the holy grail.
or like seeking for that black lotus card.
Not sure how the magic community would feel if you come we need to 20x the amounts of black lotus to increase playerbase

[dawn anchor]

Let's say we triple the amount, but quadruple or more the demand. Are we at a net negative then?

And also, the orbs would be extremely exclusive and out of access for most of the players. You or me won't qualify for them most likely. This would be for the top competitive players

[oak gate]

the demand side is a total black box who knows how much you would onboard with that.
What for sure is there is the rarity decrease.

you could even argue you might onboard less with it.
Cause many are attracted to a "holy-grail-hunt" kinda thing

[dawn anchor]

Really? Where are these many who are attracted to that? A few orbs per 3 months won't affect that at all.

Rarity means absolutely nothing if nobody is playing the game

[oak gate]

How can you say won't affect that, just look at the dex 😄

Sure rarity doesn't mean anything if nobody is playing it, doesn't mean that all the hordes are coming just because you eliminate it.

[dawn anchor]

I would rather have rarity through increased demand, than rarity because no one is playing the game and finding new high tpis

[dawn anchor]

They will come for a fun game, with a nice progression system and cool rewards on the side, with the possibility of p2e.

Right now we have a skeleton of a game that misses it's heart. It's like playing path of exile without the skill tree and just aimlessly kill stuff for no reason

[oak gate]

Totally agree to that.
But that's still the case even after implementing what you are suggesting now.
It would have a first progressions system with rewards sure, but that doesn't make the game fun... need more content for that.

By the way i like what you are suggesting here in general. 🙂

[sonic briar]

I think it may be a good idea to remove the +1 orb from the proposal for now and make that as a separate discussion... the rest of it seems to be pretty "spot on" and has many agreeing already. 🙂

I personally think a system like this will work really well... and it looks a little bit like an enhanced version of the "Missions" we used to have. (that is still on the site, but not active now). And It's also a bit similar to other games, as an example, like with the Season objectives in D4., where you complete a series of objectives, to unlock game rewards.... so it makes a lot of sense to have a progression system like this. where you can get "in game rewards".

You could easily support this with a leaderboard... something like this.
#1430992244290355314 message
and the leaderboard doesn't even necessarily need to have rewards attached to it.

[dawn anchor]

Well, our first game is an auto battler and while there are still some stuff that can be implemented, it's pretty good and fun already. But it's not pulling any players by itself. I think it's missing it's heart.

If we release this at the same time as the MMO our chances of success will increase greatly rather than just to rely on it and hope for a miracle. Not to mention this can be implemented with the MMO quite nicely, I just don't know any details about it so I didn't.

Other than that the stat orbs are not a hill to die on. The thing is I think they would be one of the most engaging and interesting rewards for our competitive tree in order to replace token handouts.

If we can think of similar cool or cooler rewards, let's do it. (I personally can't). And without cool enough rewards, the whole thing will end up being a disappointment. We can't half ass it 🙏

[dawn anchor]

We can remove and discuss the stat orbs later, it's not a big deal.

But I'm not sure what do you mean by a leaderboard? For the main tree, it's progression would be the leaderboard kind of. Due to its metrics, it's very unlikely 2 people will ever have the exact same % of progression, just because it depends on so many different things (Although it can be visualized through a leaderboard, why not, especially for the hybrid 2&3 rewards it might be needed)

For the competitive tree we can do it perhaps, as the final score for the seasonal rewards would be the ranked leaderboard placement+the multiplier from the main tree. The final score of that can be the competitive seasonal reward leaderboard that qualifies people for their final rewards.

Or it can be made into a gradual progression that you unlock further through competing, kind of like how the battle pass works.

Either one works. We can do a leaderboard for the main tree too if we can't think of another way to visualize/display the final score of the progression. The tree/tier point system can be used for that 🤔

[sonic briar]

The orb idea is not bad, I just think it's better to look for options tied to the MMO... and I am sure we can find some cool ideas for that... It could be a "Devine Orb" that can reroll stats on Rangers Gear, with the chance to roll high than normal... or something like that.

Yes, the total progression could also just be compared and shown in a leaderboard.. but I was just thinking of having a "simple" Collection leaderboard as supplementing, where points for collecting the different Illuvials, with extra point added for finish and TPI/Level could be something that could be implemented fairly easy, as it's more or less using some of the elements we already have on the current site, with "My collection".

But will leave that up to the team to evaluate... I definitely like your "progression tree" idea 🙂

[dawn anchor]

I think you are right about the leaderboard for the main tree, we might need it.

I think when the MMO is integrated, it should be through its own separate branch/mini tree, like how Gauntlet/competitive one is.

We can then saturate that one with rewards tailored to the MMO, progressed through tasks/goals in the MMO, while still receiving multiplier by our main tree.

All future games will be in a circle with our main tree in the middle, impacting and interacting with each.

For the main tree, the rewards here would be just based on collecting illuvials, in all their glory.

For the progression node/rewards and seasonal fruits we will not need one. The progression nodes will be one time unlockables, and the fruits will be claimable once per season and will depend how juicy they are based on how far each affinity branch is progressed.

But then for the hybrid tier 2 & 3 rewards, which will also be season based, will be the end game for collectors and whales, will be progressed through owning illuvials with high tpi, levels and holo/dh at the same time, yielding the ultra rare rewards like a golden Rhamphyre for example because how exclusive and rare such illuvials are.

We then have a decision to make. Would those rewards be for top 3 players with highest score in this branch for example? In this case we will need a leaderboard to track the score.

Or, we do it based on a certain point requirement, which can still be insanely high (based on TPI, lvl, finish of an illuvial) and we reward the final rewards to anyone who reaches the required points. In this case we do not need a leaderboard.

The competition here can also be affinity season based. For example if we have fire themed season, the final reward would be a golden Rhamphyre, and is progressed through owning fire illuvials with the above-mentioned requirements. If it is Earth season - golden Titanor, etc. These would be only a few per season, ultra rare.

But we can do the leaderboard nonetheless, just for bragging rights and visibility. My thoughts on it

[short tendon]

I love the deep progression, the endless grind is such an underrated feature imo, that is missing from the project even after years...

I also think that the +1 stat orb is the boogeyman that is more feared than should be. Apart from everything that has been said about it already:

• it would not only increase the number of 100 tpi illuvials, it would also increase the number of collectors who would now start to collect them. Because currently, it may feel hopeless for many, the orbs would change that. This, in turn, could easily increase the market value for them rather than decrease it.
• its an economic reality that for the project to survive, it needs to generate income, a LOT more income than it generates now. I can't think of any other item that would have more demand than a +1 stat orb... it would motivate spending like nothing else, maybe apart from seasonal NFT rewards

The only point of the proposal I'm hesitant about is the detailed visual representation. Not because I have anything against the tree, but it might not be what fits the project best from our art department's point of view. I would leave the visual representation of the leaderboard/progress to the team, they never disappoint artistically.

[dawn anchor]

Fair point, the tree was to help visualize the concept. If something else fits better, sure

[echo karma]

the demand for +1 stat orb base on the rare of 100 TPI illuvials. if we can see 100 TPI everywhere, and ereryone can easily get a 100 TPI, then +1 stat orb would be worthless,

If defined by game revenue, illuvium is a collecting game. the core of a colloecting game is rarity , if the game operators change the rarity rule, no matter web2 of web3, this game would have no soul, and would be abandoned by players no matter new or loyal one.

players pay unpredictable money to get a better TPI , +1 stat orb keeps telling players " you dont need to pay to get a better illuvial, you just need to get more orbs"

the main problem of player base is not how rare the 100 TPI are. the main problem is the current version of OW is boring. and we lack of utility for illuvials.

[dawn anchor]

Hey mate, thank you for your your feedback. I think the main misunderstanding around the stat orbs comes around how much we will issue per a 3 month season.

This reward will be among the most exclusive ones, we will not be handing it out in mass to everyone. The orb will be only for our players who have a very completed collection (spent alot of time, effort and money) and our top competitive players (time, effort and skill).

It will all come down to how many we issue per season, and who will be eligible based on what criteria. This will be for Labs to decide.

If we issue 1 orb per season, would that have any negative impact on the eco or anyone? No. Then it's a matter of finding the right balance between triggering demand to collect and not rekting the current economy/max tpi. Again, Labs will have a total control of how many we will issue per season and this can be scaled up or down based on the playerbase. Something which we currently lack.

The goal for this is to stimulate people to play all of our games and find new illuvials nonstop. It's not to make everyone walk around with a full collection of max tpis (it can be a goal for everyone, it doesn't mean everyone will get there, not anytime soon at least)

[ivory glacier]

This is a good argument and I agree that the orb could have upsides but I don't think that they outweight the downsides that have been talked about here

Having stat orbs that everyone can acquire but only tied to the MMO could be better, like you can make your illuvial stronger with this item but instead of increasing its genetic accross all games you make it stronger in another way
For instance your illuvial could go from rank F to rank E, or you could make its ability stronger etc

Those who don't want to play the MMO can just sell them

You could also offer free ADR if they still exist which could help improving the collection, I know that it would be less efficient than what you suggested but it would have less downsides as well

[dawn anchor]

In my opinion the upsides outweigh the downsides by a very big margin. When I thought about this for the past year, the goal and priority was always to: obtain more players and make players more interested into collecting illuvials of all types. I think the proposal covers everything from all angles, including the orbs and how they will function in our eco. We should only remove them if a consensus is reached that they will harm the project and not help us achieve it's goals (onboarding, stickiness, spending, ownership, immersion). If it's decided that it will impact these metrics negatively long term, by all means remove it. But it should be replaced by something equally as interesting that covers the same criteria.

I think it will work better as a Gauntlet/competitive reward than an MMO reward.

For the MMO we can do a separate mini tree with separate rewards, more geared towards gameplay from the MMO, with its own unique and exclusive rewards.

And to touch on the stat orbs one more time. Let's say we do the seasonal golden touch as suggested earlier through the tier 2&3 tpi/color seasonal progression.

Make the golden finish also have additional bonus stats and power compared to it's normal version. The idea is to increase its demand, it's utility and so that when someone sees it in Leviathan they will be shit their pants.

Then, if the golden touch seasonal skin is obtained at the end of a season, through progressing with illuvials based on TPI, levels and their colored finish, the stronger ones you compete with the higher chance of qualifying for the skin.

Alot of these stat orbs will be dumped at very low tpi holo/dh illuvials, in order for people who compete for that reward - to win it. It will further mitigate any possible downside.

To summerize how any downside is supressed by:

1. increased demand for high tpi illuvials, from current and future players, to progress their collection
2. increased playerbase, because we cover every possible type of player with this and give them goals to work towards
3. the stat orbs will be dumped on sub-par tpi illuvials by whales and collectors, for people to progress their competition for the seasonal NFT reward.

Then we will have a whole mini game around them by itself - people will look to sell them around such events when the competition is at its highest. The value of the orb can reach insane amounts, which will generate additional hype on many levels. In the end it might not even impact max tpis negatively that much or at all. Most likely it will impact them in a positive way, with all the demand around them.

Everything depends on how many we distribute, based on what metrics, what players will use them for and what they will compete towards. Nail these requirements and it will be purely net-positive (imo).

[dawn anchor]

So far the discussion has been more about the stat orbs than the idea itself. If it reaches 25 upvotes and we submit the proposal, we can skip the orbs or any rewards . Then it will be for them to decide what's best (hopefully won't be a ticket multiplier).

The current suggestion is what I could think of and doesn't have to be the final version at all. I'd like us to discuss the whole concept further and what people would like to see, not just the orbs