IIP-XX Illuvial Collection

[sullen smelt]

Following the recent threads about the Illuvial Collection here is the official proposal

Simple Summary
This proposal introduces the Illuvial Collection system, a new leaderboard that ranks players based on the strength and completeness of their Illuvial team. The system rewards collection progression by providing indirect in-game incentives, such as multipliers to battle pass rewards and raffle tickets.

The goal is to strengthen the value of Illuvials as the core assets of the Illuvium ecosystem, boost player engagement,reward ownership and long-term participation. It also serves as a first step toward valuing ownership across the ecosystem and establishing the foundation for the ecosystem economy loop that will ultimately drive DAO revenue.

Full proposal: https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Vdf-r1oJJMJ5HO26O_mucHRpaWjh14NIy7HzGP511k/edit?tab=t.0#heading=h.eoylpbl7l1jg

[regal tundra]

• why do you think scaling battle pass rewards and tickets is interesting enough to magically invoke demand
• really dont like only my highest illuvial counts (how do we determine this?). If I have a separate low tpi dark holo and a colour high tpi, it means I have a good collection
• more pointzzz on a leaderboard, i want to collect & chill, not compete more (highly personal)
• how do we find a function from your input vars (tier, stage, finish, tpi etc) to points that works for our wide range of collectors

[sullen smelt]

Hey perry,

why do you think scaling battle pass rewards and tickets is interesting enough to magically invoke demand
For the past 15 months the demand has been mostly from future belief of use case for illuvials. We only had the supply side for the first year and recently some smaller side league tournaments have been introduced for leviathan but as leaderboard and the big league is free to play its still only a small demand pressure, especially as theres no certainty that leviathan/f2p ratio will scale up or even that leviathan will continue to be at all

the introduction of the illuvial collection would be the first real thing to incentivize demand and it would go hand in hand with the current focus on f2p season 1

really dont like only my highest illuvial counts (how do we determine this?). If I have a separate low tpi dark holo and a colour high tpi, it means I have a good collection
Having only the best count makes most sense to me because thats what it is in game. Whether its for arena or mmo im normally looking to craft, catch or buy 1 good rhamphyre. If i would need 1 good rhamphyre + 1 holo + 1 dh rhamphyre then its just feels unatural, i cant even play them all in game anyway

Also if all sort would count then it would make the cap infinite and discouraging from the get go imo

To determine which one is the #1 it just depends on its total power, you can see the example of how they did it at illuvirank in the screenshot attached under. i think its a very good baseline to work from

more pointzzz on a leaderboard, i want to collect & chill, not compete more (highly personal)
If you just want to collect and chill it means you arent grinding the battlepass for rewards/tickets already anyway. I dont see why you couldnt chill anymore, its like right now you are already competing on the illuvirank leaderboard while chilling but if you dont care and just want to chill you just dont mind it

Like i said in the threads before i dont see it as negative that its one more leaderboard because even though we have multiple leaderboards in our ecosystem players usually only care about 1 leaderboard of the 1 game they play. This proposal would introduce another leaderboard for the arena players to incentivize them to jump in the ecosytem and start building up their collection -> transition to leviathan

how do we find a function from your input vars (tier, stage, finish, tpi etc) to points that works for our wide range of collectors
Same here i would inspire from the numbers they worked out at illuvirankhow do we find a function from your input vars (tier, stage, finish, tpi etc) to points that works for our wide range of collectors

[frail dust]

As someone who's deep into the Illuvium ecosystem, I haven't felt strongly about collecting Illuvial NFTs do to the lack of utility. Something like this would incentivize me to go out and buy more for my collection. Yes, this is my personal take, but I feel like there are many more like me in this community.
I would suggest leaving more of the numbers in the hands of the team to figure out, but I like the idea of giving more of a use case to the primary NFTs in this ecosystem.

[sullen pebble]

I suggested Patate a version that covers all of these points, and more. Not sure why this one was submitted

[sullen smelt]

Just a misunderstanding between us

The only difference regarding perrys point is that your version has holo/dh collecting separately once you have all TPI 100 illuvials. From my initial discussions with people about the illuvial collection and the one right know we have in a group DM's people prefer if just 1 best of X illuvial count thats why i have it this way in this baseline

and then you have different type of rewards but as i told you the way i see it is that this initial proposal is the base and it can be expanded or modified via iccp down the line if theres other good ideas regarding the illuvial collection

It was never one or the other to me, we just misunderstood each other

[sullen pebble]

But if you don't separate the holo/dh ones, they would be competing against 100 tpi ones. How would you balance that out?

What I suggested also takes 1 of best X illuvials btw, it is just the holo/dh that are separated for above reasons. Just clarifying.

[sullen smelt]

I believe theres a way to attribute the power to tpi/lvl/finish which makes everything matter

Just like in beyond where your best rhamphyre might be one with great accessories, or the best background or holo. All of the above for the best outcome but you dont need the best normal rhamphyre and the best holo rhamphyre

Illuvirank did it this way and you can see alexa is well in first place because he collects great tpi holo/dh but people who have a "players" collection can also get high on the leaderboard without feeling like they must own all the illuvials in all finish

[sullen pebble]

I'm not sure what formula they are using or who decides how much value to assign a colored finish over tpis on certain illuvials to reach a final number. For some players tpi matters more, for others would be the collection. That's why I thought it would be better to separate them, but it can also work in the way you suggested.

Also in my suggestion, your best holo Rhamphyre can also count as the best normal Rhamphyre too. It's not different in this regard, it will just count in both sections of the tree if that happens to be the case. The colored finish will activate the slot in tree 3, while the tpi/levels of it will be taken into account for tree 2, and the ownership of the illuvial unlock the slot in tree 1. In this case, one illuvial counts in all 3 trees, but only in case your highest tpi illuvial is the one with a colored finish, which would be very rare

[regal tundra]

1. Your argument here and Nijafés is for utility in general, not for this particular type of utility

I think we all agree illuvials need utility

My question is about why this type of utility over others like putting more into Leviathan leaderboards/tournaments if you want to focus on Arena or a more ecosystem-wide reward multiplier

2. "what is in game", what does that mean? Nowadays you select what is the illuvial you let fight for you. Trying to peer into your mind as a competitive Arena player here but I imagine you select your "combat illuvial" and not your "cosmetic illuvial" as you want to level the former and not the latter, but that choice is personal. Some people might want to show off their incredibly rare dark holo rhamphyre more than it being TPI 100. This "dilemma" also exemplifies that if I or someone else as system designer design the pointzzz it won't be fair to all cohorts of players. This dilemma forces the Illuvium system designer to favor arena players because only raffle tickets and even though collectors might not align with arena players

3. You're putting the cart before the horse here: you already decided on battle pass and raffle tickets as rewards therefore it's not interesting as a collector. But collectors don't need "grind utility", therefore why are we incentivizing "grind utility" with this? If we were to draw the venn diagram of arena competors and collectors, how large do we expect the intersection to be? Furthermore, we are incentivizing competition plenty already, why not focus on a different cohort?

3b. 1 leaderboard per game is fine, this to me seems like an excellent "ecosystem leaderboard" and that's accepting my disdain for leaderboards as I think the collector archetype hardly overlaps with competors (see any statistical model on player archetypes), but it's only another leaderboard incentivizing Arena players? Let them compete

4. I will let people like Nil and Meko go over things like this, they are much more capable of empathizing with the average implicit "Killer" player archetype, which is almost opposite to me

[sullen smelt]

My question is about why this type of utility over others like putting more into Leviathan leaderboards/tournaments if you want to focus on Arena or a more ecosystem-wide reward multiplier
Because we dont have leviathan yet and the future is uncertain regarding it. This idea starts to reduce the gap for the future jump in the ecosystem we will ask our players to do

This proposed baseline ties it to arena because its the only game we have now. Our current players are mostly F2P arena players and they are already playing the battle pass and collecting raffle tickets, hence why i believe those indirect rewards can be useful to incentivize those players to start getting illuvials

Of course having most the rewards be in leviathan instead of F2P would be way more effective but for now the team/imc vision is to be f2p in this first onboarding phase. I dont know how the ratio will change for season 2 but we cant wait anymore, its already been 15 months without utility for the core assets

"what is in game", what does that mean? Nowadays you select what is the illuvial you let fight for you. Trying to peer into your mind as a competitive Arena player here but I imagine you select your "combat illuvial" and not your "cosmetic illuvial" as you want to level the former and not the latter, but that choice is personal. Some people might want to show off their incredibly rare dark holo rhamphyre more than it being TPI 100. This "dilemma" also exemplifies that if I or someone else as system designer design the pointzzz it won't be fair to all cohorts of players. This dilemma forces the Illuvium system designer to favor arena players even though collectors might not align with arena players
Its an automatic system, my DH rhamphyre would most likely be the one picked as he would have most power but in-game the algo selects the highest level or the one i personally select. Someone else might have its lvl60 100TPI count in the collection as highest power but prefers to play gauntlet and mmo with his holo 80 tpi rhamphyre. Theres no problem here

You're putting the cart before the horse here: you already decided on battle pass and raffle tickets as rewards therefore it's not interesting as a collector. But collectors don't need "grind utility", therefore why are we incentivizing "grind utility" with this? If we were to draw the venn diagram of arena competors and collectors, how large do we expect the intersection to be? Furthermore, we are incentivizing competition plenty already, why not focus on a different cohort?
I believe this is the best initial rewards as a baseline to start because

1. indirect lower cost to the DAO (compared to just pay ILVs)

2. Our aimed audience are F2P arena players (for now)

Like i said before those people are incentivized big time to play F2P because thats where the big league and the leaderboard is. They are already getting rewards for the battle pass and collecting tickets while playing the f2p mode so tying the illuvial collection to this will be a first step to incentivize them to jump in the ecosystem and then as we shift more towards utility one day the jump will be smaller

[regal tundra]

Because we dont have leviathan yet and the future is uncertain regarding it. This idea starts to reduce the gap for the future jump in the ecosystem we will ask our players to do

Then why not propose Leviathan rewards instead?

Our current players are mostly F2P arena players

Oh?

Of course having most the rewards be in leviathan instead of F2P would be way more effective but for now the team/imc vision is to be f2p in this first onboarding phase

I believe this "first onboarding phase" ends during the IPL finale which is in 7 weeks? Building and prioritizing this proposal in a time while we're building the MMO and <redacted>. Why not go for something good long term, this feels like a rush move
Player psychology also underlines that once you give extrinsic reward, taking it back leads to significant churn, therefore we will be stuck to this new leaderboard for quite a while

Its an automatic system, my DH rhamphyre would most likely be the one picked as he would have most power but in-game the algo selects the highest level or the one i personally select. Someone else might have its lvl60 100TPI count in the collection as highest power but prefers to play gauntlet and mmo with his holo 80 tpi rhamphyre. Theres no problem here

There is a problem, the "pointz algo" might prefer my cosmetic finish while playing Leviathan games prefers non-cosmetic optimization

I believe this is the best initial rewards as a baseline to start because

1. indirect lower cost to the DAO (compared to just pay ILVs)

2. Our aimed audience are F2P arena players (for now)

Like i said before those people are incentivized big time to play F2P because thats where the big league and the leaderboard is. They are already getting rewards for the battle pass and collecting tickets while playing the f2p mode so tying the illuvial collection to this will be a first step to incentivize them to jump in the ecosystem and then as we shift more towards utility one day the jump will be smaller

This cross-sell argument is probably your best

1. is very fair
2. Season 1 doesn't seem to point this way

I get your argument but I don't think the carrot on a stick will be juicy enough for these players because the IPL is much juicier. There's a cohort of non-competitive grindy players but it's very small. Therefore why focus on F2P arena player over collectors

[sullen smelt]

Then why not propose Leviathan rewards instead?
Tried and failed. Now we will see in 2 days what kieran answers in the townhall about season 2 outlook regarding the free/leviathan ratio outlook

I truly hope it goes up in favor of leviathan but even if it does i still think this collection system is a great addition personally

Our current players are mostly F2P arena players

Oh?
I shouldve frame it as "our aimed audience that we want to jump in the ecosystem is F2P players" then

Zero is disconnected from the ecosystem and at the base of it, its success depends on demand of illuvial at the top but they arent incentivized directly themselves to participate in the ecosystem

OW/ADR is the supply, they naturally are in the ecosystem but they are already are in it. Incentives for them to get more and collect more is in the long term detrimental for themselves because they are printing more and more supply. What will truly benefit them is if theres real demand for their illuvials. And for now our first game that can have demand is arena and weve 99% focus on free 2 play so far

Why do you say "Season 1 doesn't seem to point this way"?

I believe this "first onboarding phase" ends during the IPL finale which is in 7 weeks?
Im not so sure about this, we will see what kiran says in the AMA in 2 days

Why not go for something good long term, this feels like a rush move
As long as F2P arena is a funnel of onboarding people in the ecosystem this type of reward is positive imo. And anyway the baseline of the leaderboard system itself will be able to be tied to other things as it makes sense down the line

I get your argument but I don't think the carrot on a stick will be juicy enough for these players because the IPL is much juicier. There's a cohort of non-competitive grindy players but it's very small. Therefore why focus on F2P arena player over collectors
I agree as long as free 2 play is so much bigger than leviathan its way harder for players to justify getting involved in the ecosystem. Thats where imo a system like this comes to help where even if you are currently only f2p you are incentivized to start getting couple illuvials here and there and then the jump to leviathan becomes smaller and smaller

Therefore why focus on F2P arena player over collectors
We cant just incentivize collecting, what gives value to assets is real demand and utility

I know we disagree on many things Perry but i truly appreciate that you come in the threads to share your piece. Those back and forth are super useful for everyone to see it from both sides of the coins 👊

---

Im posting this here on behalf of @lost dirge who wanted to share how he sees this system work out. Numbers are just examples he came in with in 5 mins but we can get a grasp of the general idea. I shared with him thats its usually best to leave the details like this to Labs but we can still share to have a discussion around it

*A player has either grabbed or minted:

A T2 S3 and has all 3 types.

The best regular T2 S3 has 97 TPI,
so it earns 97 points x2 per tier and x3 per stage
= 582.

It also has the best holo with TPI 55,
so it earns 55 x2 per tier and x3 per stage, x1.5 bonus per Holo! = 495

And finally, he also has the best Dark Holo TPI 39, so he gets 39 for it x 2 for tier and 3 for stage x 3 for Dark Holo! = 702

The multipliers for Holo and DH would be programmable, and before the start of subsequent seasons or special events, they could be modified at any time by the developers' discretion, depending on the event's needs or current supply/demand.

In any case, each type of Illuvial would have points for all 3 finishes.

Additionally, small modifiers could be introduced for the size of the collection.

For example, if someone has the above-mentioned Tier 2 Stage 3 Illuvial, a regular Illuvial, in quantities of 10, they receive a bonus to their best TPI for the regular Illuvial, which gave them 582 points, an extra 10%!
Then, the bonuses would be scalable, and if they have at least 100 of them, they receive a 20% bonus to their points. A minimum of 1,000 of the same type gives a 30% bonus, and 10,000 gives us a 40% bonus.
These bonuses would only increase the value of the best regular Illuvial.
The same bonuses would exist separately for Holo and DH.*

[night granite]

I gave it a 👍 because I support the idea and think we need an Illuvial Collection.
But I really like the version nasty has come up with here
https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1432594082567422023
Which is more a "collection progression tree" with different branches, that rewards unlocking specific milestones. (basically a more advanced version of the Missions we had at some point)

That system can be supported by a leaderboard, but rewards should be tied to the progression, which would also align well with what can eventually be used for the MMO.

As for a leaderboard system, I think something like this could also work well.

• You get Collection points for completing your collection, just by owning illuvials of Normal, Holo and Dark Holo. This gives you a “total collection points” pr. Illuvial line.
• You get a multiplier to your “total collection points pr. illuvial line”. Based on TPI, Level and finish. you “sleeve” your best Illuvial for that line and get the multiplier from that. (either manual or automated).
• You get some completion bonuses added to your total score, example. Completing each Tier, completing 25%,50%,75%,100% of Holo and DarkHolo
• The album can work a bit like a mix of the existing “My Collection” and The Beyond album.(just not with as many different “collections” as we have in beyond, I think it can be a bit overwhelming for this)

As an example, you have These Axolotl Line Illuvials

Tiers gives basic points

Power multiplier is a simple TPI/100 + Level/100 + Finish (1.0 normal, 1,2 Holo, 1,50 darkholo)

Numbers can obviously be changed, It’s just to illustrate the principle.

I think this could work, as you are insensitive to collect and own all of the Illuvials, TPI, level and finish matters… and there are several ways to improve the collection.

(in the example with the Axolotl line… If I could find a Holo Axodon and add it to my collection, I would increase my total points for that nice DH level 60 Axodon I use as a multiplier).

This is just as input.. I am sure the team can come up with their own version of it.

[sullen smelt]

Thank you for the support guys, we will just wait a little bit to push this IIP forward to let the other illuvial collection idea have a chance to also get the required upvotes

If the other idea also passes we will push them at the same time