Remove or rework rewards for Illuvium Zero leaderboard places.

[true dove]

Hi all!
Why remove.
Current implementation of IZ is almost pure money spender in the Illuvium ecosystem. The only input of value is when somebody buys a landplot. After this, the player only sucks money from the system through getting 5% fuel for free or getting blueprint NFTs for free, which then can be sold. So, imho there is no need in any additional monetary motivation to play, the game itself has enough such motivation. So, there is no need in monetary rewards for places on the leaderboard. Better spend those money on a new dev, artist or some motivation to spend, say a leaderboard with rewards for the most bought assets or something.
If for some reason it is favorable to have those rewards, then
Why rework.
Current reward system is imho very flawed. It rewards only fuel generators. But there are 4 major aspects of the game: building/upgrading (bu), fuel generation (fg), blueprints discovery (bd), blueprint NFTs generation (bg). So, i suggest to have 4 leaderboards, one for each aspect of the game. And each leaderboard should have its own prize pool, 250$ of current 1000$ per week (with scaling). In this case, all aspects are covered in rewards. If somebody starts a landplot, they build/upgrade a lot and have a chance to have a reward in bu leaderboard. If somebody has a developed land dedicated to fuel generation, they can get a reward in **fg ** (current state). If somebody concentrates on blueprints discovery, they can get something in bd leaderboard, and those who discovered all blueprints and only generate NFTs, can be rewarded in bg. If a Passport account has a lot of lanplots, it can get something on several or all leaderboards.
If the rework idea is accepted, i suggest to stop current rewards till the new system is implemented, cus current system is totally unfair, motivating only fuel generation.

[spare light]

I don´t agree with stopping IZ LB to hire someone else for that reason. Then the same could be said for every LB than only rewards top players. And this LB was also implemented because fuel rewards were very low compared to expectations, and original plot owners were a big source of money for financing all the games. That is why I think the LB should reward more players, 100 like in others, no increase reward for top players (and I´m one of those top players).
For the rest not getting reward from LB, for example now a T1 is less than $50 so, even if you don´t get money from fuel or LB, you can play it as any other game that cost the same and get some money or even win money selling it in the future.
I don´t see the LB being split, fuel is the core of the game, even if you are in a science game. Every plot can play both games. For example a T1 with only 14 converters can mantain 5 labs and 3 scanners. It would produce ~80 fuel daily and needs 45 for the labs and 27 for the scanners, so 8 fuel surplus with a good management. And you can possible add some converter or disable scanners once you have some biodata to research. Higher tiers produce way more fuel and this is not much of a problem.
But, as science is part of the gameplay, it also should give points for LB. For example, the fuel used for science, to compensate for the converters lost due to scanners and other science buildings. Biodata and blueprints are random, so not sure how to include them, for example 20 times it cost in fuel (for 5% base chance), so 180 points in a T1, 240 in a T2, etc for each discovery. No points for minting as this produces an asset out of IZ.
Building/upgrading is the same for all, and I though it would be included from start. Compared to converters, it produce so few points that can continue excluded to not congest more the servers (each time I collect converters, loading plots menu is quite slow because of that).

[true dove]

As i get it, leaderboard rewards is for player motivation to buy lands and play. So the more activities are motivated - the better, more reasons to buy lands and play for different kinds of players with their preferences in the game. So it's better to motivate all aspects of the game - building/updating, fuel generation, blueprints discovery and minting. As for buy more lands and generate more fuel, i already have 14 t2 lands, but fuel is kinda boring, i preferred to do science on them, and i think i am eligible for rewards for that no less than those who chose to generate fuel.

As for comparing IZ and other games, again, IZ is sucking value from the Illuvium ecosystem, it has intrinsic monetary motivation by itself. Other games are generating value, cus you need to buy playing them, be it fuel or skins or illuvials or battlepasses. So to motivate those spending in them with some money from the leaderboar rewards is a good way to attract them to spend more. But motivating to play IZ with monetary rewards is presumably excessive.

[distant flint]

I stopped playing zero because LB turned into ‘who has more plots’ and not based on tiers. I have two mega cities with t4 and couldn’t keep up with people that had 20 t1 plots.

The LB is skewed poorly and I lost interest to play. Also devalued mega cities imo.

[true dove]

I've not lost interest in playing yet, discovering new blueprints and selling minted NFTs is fun for me (though sales are almost none, but its another story and there is hope for more demand in future), sort of like fishing or something. But would be cool to have those activities presented on the LB, not only fuel generation.

[lyric cairn]

I disagree with the author of the post; he doesn't know how much people have invested in this game. Landowners should be able to play this game for free, but the current LB IL only allows 50 players to do so.
My post regarding LB IZ clearly shows how undervalued landowners are, how they've been truly cheated, and what needs to be changed to better value them rather than exclude them. I invite all logical players to read all my ideas regarding Illuvium Zero, including the rankings and improvements.
If the system stops rewarding those who invested in the development and existence of this game—landowners and Beyond collectors—then Illuvium itself will collapse. Below, I present the complete opposite of the author's. Not limiting rewards, but expanding them both
in
Illuvium Zero:
https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1427790842873118751

and in
Beyond:
https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1413432223020875888

[true dove]

All landowners play this game for free, not only top 50 from the leaderboard. Nobody was cheated or undervalued, if there are a lot of paying players, fuel sales will be good, as well as blueprint sales (well this is not guaranteed, depends how they will be used in MMO etc, but i think the Team will find a way to use them). Same thing now is with ILV staking, no revenue - no distribution. And the price of ILV is low cus of low interest to the project rn. All aspects of investing in Illuvium suffer now. The point of my suggestion is very limited, either remove LB rewards of IZ at all, there is enough motivation to play without it, its just spending money for nothing, or make them fair, not like now, rewarding only fuel producers. Let's not distract from the gist of my suggestion.

[true dove]

Considering overall gameplay of IZ, what should be done now, in current implementation, is making VFX for skins of lynxes stage 2 and 3, cuz now there is nothing to mint in lynxes family except Lynx skin (stage 1).

[lyric cairn]

Currently, when someone asks me how to play OW for free, how much does it cost at once and if it's even possible, I tell them yes, although it's quite expensive and requires a lot of time. In IL and Beyond, it's currently around $500-$1000, and that will remain the case as long as there are any rewards from the leaderboards and the option to redeem them in fuel. Remove this option and I'm done with the game. People didn't invest in the early stages of the game, like in Beyond or plots, to now spend even more money every month to play OW and catch Illuvial for 10 cents. If you'd been here from the beginning like me, you wouldn't even dare make suggestions like removing the leaderboards because you're probably not in it; you'd be ashamed. I hope the developers are also ashamed and never forget who the main backers of this game were: the investors in Beyond, plots, and, of course, in tokens. Regarding the latter, no one is even trying to revive this token, but rest assured. I have plenty of ideas for reviving the ILV token, but I'm afraid that after recent moves, the creators are more likely to forget about it. I remember and will always remind you of the inconvenient things... If you were to read about my ideas regarding, for example, IZ, you'd understand that I also include a way to convert LB IZ there, and I'm not just talking about expanding the rankings, as that should have been done long ago, if only out of respect for early investors...

[true dove]

I am early investor, bought my ILV on the generation event, and bought my lands on the generation event. So i am very interested in the overall success of the project. That's why i sincerely don't understand why spend money motivating to play IZ, which is a pure vallue sucker from the project and has intrinsic monetary motivation to play (selling fuel and blueprint NFTs). I suggest only removing IZ leaderboard rewards, but i am for more leaderboard rewards in games where value is generated for the project, where players spend, to motivate them to spend more. Investors ofc should be respected (and they are respected in Illuvium) and rewarded, but this will happen only when the project generates money, not before, this is the gist of investing, if you can't tolerate risks, losses and waiting - don't invest.

But i am not the best marketing specialist, so if there is a necessity to have rewards in IZ leaderboard which i don't understand, then make them fair, rewarding all aspects of the game, not just fuel generation. I think this would attract players who consider fuel generation a boring activity, like me.

Also i think if the reward stays, it should motivate to become even a small investor, so may be it should be organised like a lottery with proportional participation, the higher you are on the leaderboard, the more chances you have for a prize, but even with a minimal participation you still have a small chance for a top prize. In current implementation, top guys always take all rewards, and potential land owners understanding they don't have a chance to win, will not buy a landplot.

btw i suppose all non-esport leaderboards should be made like this, to motivate players to start even small, spending cents, and then to go deeper, buying more assets to increase their chances for leaderboard prizes. Esport leaderboards is another thing, no lotteries there, rewards should be given only to the best players for skills and wins.

[lyric cairn]

That's why I'm proposing limited-fuel for the future and a better point system based not only on production. I see you still haven't read my ideas for the IZ. I encourage you again, maybe you'll understand that there's a better way than deleting the rankings and taking away the last chance for people like me to play the game for free after paying thousands of dollars in the IZ and Bayond is probably enough, right?

Illuvium Zero:
Illuvium Zero Vision Concept

https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1427790842873118751

Beyond:
Beyond Rank = Premium Account Level

https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1413432223020875888

[true dove]

I see you want to be rewarded right now no matter the future, you are tired of waiting. I understand this, but prefer to wait for much higher gains later than get a little now. So i suppose your suggestion is how to pay you now, so it is not very interesting for me. But if there are some points in your suggestions that intersect with my suggestions, then you are welcome to like my suggestions😉

As of now i see the best way is to remove IZ rewards and spend them either on artists, who would do VFX of lynxes stage 2 and 3 skins asap, or a dev (if the Team needs one) or on a leaderboard rewards which motivate players to spend more.

But if there is a strange wish to burn money on IZ landholders who already make money on fuel and selling blueprints, than at least do it fair, rewarding all aspects of the game, not just fuel generation, and also organize like a lottery to motivate land purchases.

[lyric cairn]

First of all, I'm not being rewarded. Like many others, I was brutally cheated by the system when the new fuel was introduced.
Secondly, I want to play for free for the money I spent; that's what rewarding investing in land was supposed to be about.
Thirdly, if you think landlords like me make money from burning fuel or from blueprints, it just means you don't know what's going on in this game and in the markets.
The game is dying, and OW is their last chance.
If they ruin OW MMO, I'm selling everything and quitting. Like others who have been cheated, I'm starting to hate so people know what they're getting into by joining this project.
People spent thousands of dollars on the Beyond collection and plots, and you're making them pay for runs in OW, what a disaster.
It's the disregard for early investors that will destroy this project. There's no point in mentioning the token itself, as it has no utility beyond an airdrop for influencers and minor Arena rewards.
The game is dying, and taking away rewards that would allow these loyal early adopters to play for free is like digging a hole under your own body.
Hiring another artist for that money to design a few new trees for the OW or IZ won't do you any good; it's pointless.

I proposed a fairer distribution of points, which would also randomly reward even the smallest landowner, plus fixed-term fuel for everyone, even those with a single T1.
If you read, you'd know and maybe you wouldn't write such nonsense as let's eliminate the LB for IZ and hire a new artist, preferably one who designs bushes and trees.
Then the 50 people who still have a chance to play the game for the thousands of dollars they invested will sell their land and start hating on the game. Bravo, great plan, I hope the creators have a grain of sense and such nonsense will never be implemented and OW MMO will attract new players who won't see the price of the ILV token go to hell...

[true dove]

Hiring a new artist is not pointless. The product needs to be consistent, it's not looking good that there is not complete set of VFX for all skins, when you see this, you feel that the product is incomplete, looks not professional and respectable. But rewarding landowners is pointless, cus they have their reward from the game already as fuel and blueprints. The market is bad and the reward is small? True. It's risks of investing. If you can't stand them - sell your assets and put your money in a bank😅 Partly this is because money are spent on pointless rewards for value suckers (landowners are value suckers right now, they don't buy anything in the project but they get some value from it) instead of creating value in the form of art or code for the project. Btw you constantly iterating over that you were cheated is laughable and childish, stop doing it, you disgrace yourself😅

[true dove]

Btw, i don't agree that MMO is the last chance. Arena is very good recently, and with mobile and multilanguage it will be a blast and can become a money printer. Also, i don't understand your disrespect to the art. Before Arena, visuals were the only selling point of Illuvium, everyone's sentiment was like "Ok, this wannabe game looks like a proper AAA web2 game, let's see if they will be able to make an interesting game". So i don't understand why stop to pay attention to visuals, especially instead of giving money to value suckers from the project as rewards for their achievements in sucking out value😅 I was already burned in a project where leeches were rewarded till they sucked dry the project, am i seeing this again in Illuvium?

[normal vapor]

Thumbs upping as I agree with removing rewards and putting the money into something that provides more long-term value for Zero and Illuvium as a whole.

[lyric cairn]

If anyone's complaining, you're the one here who would remove something that's the only reward for those who invested in people like you, so you could play this game.
You have no idea how much money people spent on the Beyond album and on plots of land in IZ.
Anyone who's intelligent and reads your posts and then sees mine regarding specific changes will understand that I'm one of the few who, instead of complaining, take the time to prepare a concrete plan that can help the entire Illuvium project in the long run, and you want to spit in the face of those who have already paid a fortune for this game and still want them to pay for it.
Shame on you. It's because of people like you that such projects fail. Once again, I refer you and anyone else reading this to whatever you call my rants, hehe, links below...

Illuvium Zero:
Illuvium Zero Vision Concept

https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1427790842873118751

Beyond:
Beyond Rank = Premium Account Level

https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1413432223020875888

[true dove]

Lie in every statement. I am an OG investor myself, bought 21 landplots on initial sale, and also ILV on initial sale, its me who invested so that others could play. I am not complaining, i am suggesting concrete steps to make things better longterm. It is not because of me such projects fail, my suggestions are about increasing value of the project and about increasing demand for lands in IZ. Shame on the liar🧐

In other posts also lot of lies. Lots of meaningless words to hide a simple message "They cheated on me, gimme my ROI right now no matter the future"🤨

https://tenor.com/view/will-ferrell-elf-liar-you-sit-on-a-throne-of-lies-gif-17734593

[grave shuttle]

lets keep this conversation objective and rational and on topic 🙂

[lyric cairn]

Thank you for finally reading my ideas and expressing your opinion; it's very much needed.

Illuvium Zero:
Illuvium Zero Vision Concept

https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1427790842873118751

Remember, it's not only the creators who create a game, but also the community and people like us who not only criticize and complain but also share their thoughts.

Good luck, but hopefully not in convincing the Team to completely abandon LB IZ, I will always be against that.

Thank you for your Opinions in my posts.
Don't give up, let's make Illuvium games better.

best regards!

[grave shuttle]

Appreciate the constructive feedback, great points on recognizing the various gameplay pillars.

For context, the current leaderboard approach was most likely chosen because it required the least engineering lift to deploy.

Including science/blueprinting and other systems in a leaderboard is a valid ask, but we also need to consider opportunity cost: implementing multi-axis scoring and reward logic adds significant dev overhead. Personally, I’d prefer those engineering cycles go towards core Zero improvements and feature delivery rather than reinforcing or expanding a system apparently not only me agree isn’t strategically critical.

A leaderboard in the Illuvium ecosystem should ideally:

• reflect skill expression
• support onboarding and ecosystem growth
• incentivize spending to increase revenue

The current nor the here intended improved version of a Zero leaderboard doesn’t achieve these goals. At the moment, it provides value to a very small subset of players, while consuming operational funds that could be redirected toward broader-impact incentives or ecosystem rewards.

So I support the desire for fairness but I think the larger question is whether expanding the leaderboard system is the best use of resources, versus focusing on Zero's gameplay evolution first.

Zooming out: I also think we have multiple reward streams across the project right now that aren’t achieving their intended goal of attracting fresh players or boosting DAU, playtime, and revenue... not only Zero.

For example, Arena rewards currently pay F2P twice (frequent tournaments + leaderboard), plus the monthly raffle and in my opinion we haven't achieved a satisfying growth. Similarly, I'm not a fan of Overworld bounty hunts; we should avoid incentivizing supply. If incentives are used, they should ideally stimulate demand, not further inflate supply.

[true dove]

Thanks for the feedback! So, seems like it is useless now to suggest rewarded leaderboard for blueprints generation. What about removing rewards for production? Actually, i think it stimulates purchases by those who are in top 50 and near it, nobody wants to go out, so they buy new lands to stay in (Sellerus mentioned he has bought a lot, i suppose others do the same). The question though, is if we want such kind of motivation to buy, small guys go away, only few whales buy more and more to be in top 50🤔 I suppose it is better to have a lot of middle class players (in terms of owning IZ lands🙂 ) than a few whales, the first type of economy looks more stable and healthy.

How about the following system: 1 - 10 places - 50$ 1 prize proportional lottery (using the leaderboard's points for proportion of participation in a lottery) . 11 - 50 places - 25$ 2 prizes, proportional lottery. 51 - bottom - 5$ 5 prizes proportional lottery. With every new 100 players the lottery 51 - bottom adds one more 5$ prize. But not top, they are fixed. This way it is almost no burning money for nothing, feeding whales (but they are still rewarded for their hard clicking work ) and also a motivation for those who want to start playing. Concrete numbers ofc can be changed, it's just a description of a system which would motivate to start buying lands and also to buy more, but not only for top 50, but for all players.

[grave shuttle]

never useless to suggest anything 🙂
The above is just my opinion, others might disagree community members, aswell as team/council.

Not sure how it actually stimulates... floorprices haven't really moved since implementation as far as i can tell.
I guess most are just scooping up the really good deals.

[weary crane]

I love this idea. Great. But only 2, why? Hehe

[weary crane]

The prices have really gone up. Why? The profit from race fuel for burning fuel on the islands has been decreasing, while the islands have slowed down their devaluation. Even the token keeps dropping, but the islands, on the other hand, are holding steady at rock-solid prices.