(1/2) Illuvial Collection

[sharp galleon]

Illuvials are the core assets of the Illuvium ecosystem, and the project’s success depends on the demand for them. Recently, the first use case started with the introduction of a secondary, smaller league for Leviathan

Now that the competitive scene and marketing are kicking off, it feels like the right time to give Illuvials some extra utility

The idea is to create an Illuvial Collection leaderboard, kind of like the Illuvitar one, where players climb the ranks by building up and improving their collection. Unlike Illuvium Beyond, this wouldn’t be about giving out direct $ rewards, since Illuvials already have their main purpose as the core assets in the game

The leaderboard itself would already be a fun feature. It would encourage players to grab a few stronger Illuvials to push higher and compete. On top of that, we could add indirect incentives like a "battle pass reward multipliers"

If you want to dive into this specific idea, the link is down in the comments (couldnt share here)

This post here is mainly to share the core concept of the Illuvial Collection and see how we would want it to be

To get a better sense of what it could look like, you can check how they did it at illuvirank(.)com

If this ever turns into a proposal, I would leave it to Labs to figure out the exact formulas. But I imagine it would consider things like tier, stage, stats (TPI), levels, and finishes. Just like in Beyond, I think it's better if duplicates don't count and simply the best one of each illuvial is taken into account

Let me know what do you guys think about this and feel free to vote on the questions shared in the first comments

1. Should finishes (holo, dark holo) be taken into account in the illuvial collection?
   1️⃣ Points for finishes
   2️⃣ No points for finishes

2. Should the scoring happen automatically like it does on illuvirank(.)com or would you prefer if it's an album that we manually fill like in beyond?
   1️⃣ Automatic
   2️⃣ Album

[mighty root]

I will be honest as usual. I've been pushing for this since a long time ago but I think this implementation is one of the worst ways we can go on about it. The idea is good, but it sounds boring as hell.

The album collection should be tied to the leaderboard rankings and playing the game, not just an album (tournaments are an exception).

For rewards, other than the current rewards we have for climbing the leaderboard, we can add alot of other stuff. Ranger skins, drone skins, battleboard skins, fuel, illuvial genetic modification materials, that evolve and unlock different traits, we can include +1 stat enhancers (make them rare, top 50 or top 100) that by itself it's going to have insane market value, and Labs can print it at will, unlike the tokens we use for rewards currently. You can include alot of other things too. But you have to make it interesting.

Holo, dark holo, stats, levels, it should all be taken into account, absolutely.

Last but not least, tieing the collection to leaderboard placement rewards is the best possible method against multi accounting. If you want to have a real competitive game, with real leaderboards, handing out rewards with monetary value, this is the best possible way to do it that makes it fair and square for everyone.

If the seasons are 3-6 months long, that would give Labs enough time to generate rewards for the new season. And ideally, most rewards as suggested above, should be nfts, the skins and other cosmetics be season specific and tradable. Then over time, these things will reach insane value, provided the game turns successful. I've seen this happen in many games, and it's the best way to reward early loyal adopters.

This should be planned and implemented carefully, no need to rush it asap.

And the best part? We can print these rewards ourselves, that have real value out of thin air (besides the work needed to build them) instead of relying on tokens, which we have limited amounts of and cannot possibly reward a large playerbase of tens of thousands or more.

[sharp reef]

I would have liked to see something like this!!
It would directly attract the interest of current players who don’t spend time in the Arena or new players who will join.

[slender viper]

I think that this is an amazing idea that makes complete sense 💯

You want to incentivize collecting even if the reward is "just" status

Perhaps they could simply acquire Illuvirank's code and tweak it a little bit for their needs to save time

That's a low hanging fruit with high positive value

[mighty root]

Don't you think it's an empty shell compared to it's true potential? It's going to do very little to bring in new players, and probably only satisfy some of the current ones

[lapis vortex]

I was thinking just last night that we used to come on and play Trivia so we could get a Nutcracker Grokko NFT or a new colour on Discord (he may have neglected to tell you before, but Lars was once Triva Master😏 ).

I think we have lost a lot as a community that we now have everything as being a massive prize or it isn't worth it. One way of encouraging fun is to take away the seriousness that big prizes bring and instead make things for bragging rights or personal goal fulfillment.

Give me an album. Let me play with my Illuvials by slotting them like the Beyond Players do. I am unsure of how to score them though. Holos vs stats vs levels. Kind of complicated but I still love the idea.

[sharp galleon]

Hey nasty, appreciate your honest feedback 🙏

This thread is just the foundation, in 30mins i will share the 2nd one which has to do with the purpose of the illuvial collection. I also have a 3rd thread but im holding off on this one for a couple weeks because something else has to happen before

Regarding straight up tying leaderboard rewards to this its also something i would like to see

I am fighting for illuvial utility/leviathan constantly ever since the ow launch in 2024 but i have come to accept that the team decided that season 1 would be all about fully F2P experience trying to onboard people in the game

Given this i still believe its time to slowly introduce illuvial utility. Hence why im posting this series of thread today. My initial approach is softer and i tried to find way to indirectly encourage ownership as we eventually shift more and more towards incentivizing owning assets in our ecosystem

This Illuvial Collection would be a new foundation and we can tie it to anything we want afterwards

[slender viper]

I would personally be very happy from just getting the status as a reward but I wouldn't say no to more rewards

I'm not sure if the goal of a leaderboard like that would be to onboard players, it looks more like a retention tool to me and a cool way to incentivize spending

[timber token]

I never understood why there has been put so much effort into creating a beautiful Beyond Album with leaderboards and rewards etc. and then there is still nothing for collecting Illuvials.I think it makes a lot of sense to create a collection for our core assets, and am looking forward to see your full proposal for this

[mighty root]

We should think of what will bring more players in, not from personal point of view imo.

It can be used for all of the above, but also for onboarding. People like content, they also like rewards. Make them cool enough, season exclusive and we can get everything in one.

Some will go for the rewards because they like them and want to use them, others will sell them on the market for players who couldn't reach high enough on the seasonal rewards bracket, which will be based on collection points + leaderboard placement.

That's the cool part, after a few seasons, all of these rewards will become exclusive and traded on the market and this effect will stack up nicely over time. I think it's a must have for both OG players and new ones. Fixes pretty much most of the issues we have around monetizing Gauntlet.

And then before you know it, trying to maximize your collection for the best rewards, you are now suddenly Leviathan ready.

The loop is complete.

[slender viper]

If we can maximize its positive effect I'm all for it

I would like some of the rewards to be account bounded like a title for instance, status from an achievement loses value when people who didn't do the achievement can get it

[mighty root]

Yep absolutely, those ones and borders should be account bound of course. But other cosmetics, consumables and stuff should be tradable. Depending on what it is and how limited, it can replace a large part of the ilv rewards and distributed on a larger scale, while still being liquid for having in-game use and demand, because of it's exclusivity

[sharp galleon]

I like this idea similar to the beyond exclusive illuvitars to the leaderboard after each waves. Thats something we can also add. Again this thread is just the feature introduction

Exactly like you say with the complete loop. This is a first step to slowly move away from complete F2P

[mighty root]

The game would still be f2p, just the rewards wouldn't. Although there should still be something for the f2p guys, the collection based rewards should be so shiny that alot of them wouldn't want to be f2p anymore

And if you can spend 20$ to build a basic collection, but earn 100$ in ilv tokens or other type of rewards, why not? People can slowly build up their collection like that, and if we have the +1 stat orbs and other trait enhancements, it will be also the complete progression system we need that is MMO independent.

[slender viper]

I find the +1 stat orbs and trait enhancement (I'm not sure what's the difference) to be very dangerous for the economy of the game

I can see its value in a normal game but we're talking about a Web3 game where collections can have super high value

If you could increase the rarity of your pokemon card then ultra rare cards would lose a lot of value

If it is ever implemented (and I'm not sure I want it) it should be extremely rare like less than 1 per month

[sharp galleon]

👆

Something like this couldnt be implemented in the F2P mode imo because the goal of F2P as the onboarding mode is that anyone can jump in and have the same chance to compete

---

Here's the 2nd thread to follow up this one (i cant link in original messages)

#1428071923677401099 message

[mighty root]

Guys, we have been over this before already. That's the whole idea of tieing the rewards to leaderboard placement. Then you can make it however rare you want, it can be only for top 1 if you choose. That would be very liquid and sought after. And then you go from there and chose how much you would like to distribute per 3-6 month season. We have complete control over it

And it's just one example out of many

[mighty root]

It's not "f2p mode" already if the rewards are tied to a collection 😀

And it does nothing against competing, everyone is still on the same playing field.

[vernal sun]

I love this idea! As for finishes, I think that each one should be counted separately, just like we see it on the main Illuvidex page (image below).
As for rewards, I think that even unique Illuvitars or PFP borders would be nice.

[sharp galleon]

If counted separately, would it then be 3 different leaderboards?

Personally i feel like finishes should count because they are meant to be cosmetic, while stats/lvl are attributes in game. So i picture it more like a leviathan collection than a collector collection in a sense, but i imagined that not everyone would see it this way and finishes are worth more and have a worth for some people that why i brought up the question

thanks for your feedback warfighter :)

[vernal sun]

Probably I formulated wrongly my thoughts. I see it this way:

• we would have only one leaderboard
• each finish is counted separately meaning the player is getting points for a single (best TPI as you mentioned before) coloured, Holo and Dark Holo Illuvial.
• I agree that lvl should not matter at all. As for stats I'm not sure. Personally, I would prefer to make them count so the competition is even more intense, but we have so many illuvials that even without that there's plenty of room for competition.
• maybe we should give a multiplier for Holo and Dark Holo illuvials, since they are quite rare

[sharp galleon]

Ok yea i see what you mean now, that would make the cap extremely high though, not sure thats a good thing

Personally lvl/stats are mandatory because thats the real illuvial utility. Thats what holds power in game

If we it would just be a collection rate completion everyone could get #1 position with max benefit for 100-150$. That would be quite boring, not incentivize people to prepare for leviathan/mmo and not bring much revenue through ow/adr imo

[tepid harbor]

Old Message I sent to Filow for quick economy design on this few months back when discussing this

Didn't think of second order effects much yet, gut feeling design, nothing official, use it however you wish

Havent thought deeply about it yet, but I notice my mind going to the following (trying to make it as simple as possible while still making sense)

Battle Pass, binary necessity, no Battle Pass, no rewards. Owning it sets you to "100%" (but this would be on the lower side of reward output)
Owning all Illuvials, finish agnostic -> 200%
Owning all Illuvials, holo -> 300%
Owning all Illuvials, dark holo -> 400%
Independent TPI layer, simple average of your highest TPI illuvials per illuvial type. Any average at or below 50% gives 0% bonus. Then scales to additive 200%. So average of 75 is +100%
Independent level layer, simple average of your highest level per illuvial type. Any average at or below 40 gives 0% bonus. Maxes to 200% at Level 60 linearly

Given the step to full collection is huge, I recommend splitting it by Tier only, so each finish block of 100% is split by

T0 (75 illuvials) -> 10%
T1 (36 illuvials) -> 10%
T2 (31 illuvials) -> 10%
T3 (24 illuvials) -> 15%
T4 (21 illuvials) -> 25%
T5 (18 illuvials) -> 30%

Would mean that say you have the entire Set 1 collection in color finish, you could start increasing further by collecting holo T1 across all stages to gain another 10%

I think the main difference is the leaderboard take vs my static take
While I acknowledge the benefits of leaderboard in its "endless grind", we already have 1 leaderboard for each game and by adding even more leaderboards a new player becoming a serious collector will tend to be overwhelmed. Set 2 would take care of that staticness. One of my main goals within our complex ecosystem is simplicity

In this model, this multiplier would scale all "monetary" rewards, be it fuel or ILV except IPL

[timber token]

I think an album just like we have for Beyond would actually work great.

• You should be able to sleeve your Illuvials.
• You get points for completing collections.
• You collect normal, Holo, DH in separate collections, (Holo and DH give more base points). all goes towards your total points
• You get base points for your Illuvial, with a small modifier for TPI and level. (giving it a total power level like an Illuvitar).
• Create a leaderboard based on your total points.(100% needs that to create some competition and flexing your top collection)

Not sure just rewarding the top collections will be the right way to go though… I feel it should matter to hold just a few Illuvials, and you should get some sort of benefits for that. (onboarding new players into collecting Illuvials). so maybe a reward multiplier could work, along with a leaderboard 🙂

If I personally had to choose I would rather have a “collection Leaderboard” than the current “bounty Leaderboard”. but make the "Collection leaderboard top 500 or something like that".

The points for each Illuvial could be something similar to the “Airdrop points” we had awhile back. (Just with different points pr. Stage)

[fallow jackal]

https://tenor.com/view/neva-never-marc-homealone-youcantstopme-gif-9816521

[fallow jackal]

wouldn't that completely destroy the sense of progression and the incentive to start collecting is too demotivating since you need "all" to have an effect?

[tepid harbor]

Isnt that purely tuning?

[fallow jackal]

don't understand 😅

[slender viper]

I don't understand the point of sleeving your illuvials if you always sleeve the best ones, an automatic leaderboard like illuvirank makes more sense to me

[fallow jackal]

flex to show off
it's like a sticker album
or the beyond album
or a panini album

Or even to look at it from time to time yourself and think dayumm... i'm so flexy... or i'm so far away from completion... or i'm so broke now

[timber token]

that also works... or like with Beyond collections, Auto sleeve 🙂

But there can be something satisfying in looking at your collection and sleeving them yourself.

[tepid harbor]

I don't get the

you need "all" to have an effect

given my message

Own battle pass -> unlock rewards
Own all illuvials -> double rewards
Own all holo illuvials -> triple rewards
Own all dark holo illuvials -> quadruple rewards

100 TPI max collection only -> add double base rewards on top

Why do you need "all" to feel an effect on the reward multiplier

[fallow jackal]

i'm so confused now.
Because it sais "Own all illuvials" get x bonus.

What bonus do i get if i own 50% of the illuvials?

[tepid harbor]

depends which 50%, my proposal states tier as the main underlying divisor

So say your 50% consists of all T1 (10%) and T3 (15%), but missing completion of T0, T2, T4, T5 -> 25% increased reward

[fallow jackal]

Ah, yea then i missunderstood

https://tenor.com/view/cool-gif-24908377

[sharp galleon]

Thanks for sharing your initial thoughts @tepid harbor

I think counting illuvials separately (best atlas, best holo atlas, best dh atlas) makes it more complicated and also, imo, wrongly put more value simply on cosmetic while we have all the hard to get attributes that already give the most $ value to illuvials and true utility in game

I much prefer a system like illuvirank did where there are weights attributed to everything and then only your #1 is counted

Naturally our game(s) incentivize owning your best #1 team (1 of each illuvial) depending on their stats and level

I think its important the Illuvial Collection feature stays in line with this so it makes more sense

Regarding the point about illuvial collection completion or leaderboard i see the upside of a leaderboard (similar to beyond) very big compared to just completing a collection given that the goal of the feature is to incentivize illuvial utility

Concerning your point about aiming for simplicity i think thats a fair one but i personally dont see this as more confusing necessarily. just something different

Our ecosystem is big and we do have many games and leaderboard but i feel players usually just come in to play their one game, at least to start off

[lean path]

Oh boy, the stars must be aligned for this one because I have spent hours thinking about the same thing during the last few days, very happy to see so many of my ideas already being suggested in the thread!

Here is my preferred version:

• automatic leaderboard (nothing against an album but it would take a bunch of dev work while an LB is just a new algorithm within the existing reward system)
• please make it as granular as possible, points for finishes + traits + levels, only the highest point illuvial of each finish counts towards the LB (the best color atlas + the best holo atlas + the best DH atlas)
• 3 month seasons with cosmetic rewards, this is a way to give huge value for collectors without handing out ILV from the treasury, plus these are the things that get people really excited, just look at the emotions running high about the beyond reward illuvitars (skins, illuvitars, frames, battle boards would work but if the new weapon/suit system in the MMO allows it, weapon skins as an exclusive reward for this collection would be great)
• weekly fuel rewards (no ILV option and even the fuel does not need to be too much, but it would encourage people to keep playing)

[lapis vortex]

I like Kirito's suggestion of the modifier for TPI and Level based on the individual Illuvial - like Illuvitars. I am not sure of your idea Perry of having it be an average. I have some really crap Illuvials that I have for skins, I don't want them being added in to an average or to have to make a different account for them just to keep my average high.

[mighty root]

I think he meant an average of how completed your collection is, basic skin or with a holo, not an average of all illuvials owned

[mighty root]

What's your thoughts on including stats and levels into the mix? Like an overall power level of your ranger/drone? If the rewards are nice it will trigger an insane demand for good illuvials

[tepid harbor]

Yeah the tpi "score" is the average of your best illuvials per illuvial type on the tpi front, not taking average of all illuvials within the illuvial type

[tepid harbor]

Where is the counting separate coming from?

Its more as:

Dimension 1: did you catch them all

Dimension 2: cosmetic, how far into holo/dark holo catch em all are you

Dimension 3: picking the best tpis per illuvial type, whats your average tpi <- this doesnt care at all about finishes

Dimension 4: level <- doesnt care about tpi or finish. If your highest level illuvial is not your dark holo one, no problem, it will look at them separately. If they are the same, good for you.

This should incentivize some form of having multiple as well

"Weights attributed to everything" sounds very complicated from the lens of a newcomer. Furthermore, people attribute things differently. Better to make all axes independent imo

The amount of leaderboards within illuvium are becoming a meme but if you really want to leaderboard id do it on something super simple

Lastly, an argument against leaderboards: not everyone wants to compete always all the time, collect n chill

[mighty root]

Ideally it should be a combination of dimension 2 & 3. Dimension 3 already covers the first one. If we use both tpi and finish for the final multiplier, it will make such illuvials incredibly rare and valuable, even more so than now. They would have utility inside and outside of Leviathan.

I don't think it will be confusing for new players at all, especially new gen players. They are used to having a ton of content, rewards and progression systems in the new games.

Right now the leaderboard and rewards for Gauntlet are underwhelming, and it's not suited for bringing more people in, but keeping the current most dedicated ones. It can be both with this suggestion, which will supersede the current leaderboard rewards scheme, not add ontop of it.

[violet vine]

I agree to make illuvials more desireable to collect but adding another boring type of game like illuvitar/ illuvium beyond makes the game less fun.

We just need more leviathan tournaments and if you don't own the illuvial it shouldn't show up on rerolls and we should only play illuvials that we own.
Holo and dark holo should also have a little boost in performance to make it more desireable to collect.
+0.5 or less bonus on all illuvial stats for holo
+1 or less bonus on all illuvial stats for dark holo
Most of holo and dark holo illuvials does not have a good stats so adding bonus stats for holo and dark holo will be more desirable for most players to collect and holo/ dark holo illuvials will significantly increase in value due to slightly increase advantage in game plays

[violet vine]

I know many players specially players who only play for free don't want pay to win that's completely understandable that's why there's regular gauntlet tournaments. Leviathan should be slightly pay to win that's how economy thrives. Whoever gets the most expensive and strongest illuvials should dominate the tournaments just like in the real world who ever spend more in military dominates the world.

[lean path]

I would like to respectfully but strongly push back against the idea for keeping this "super simple". This is our chance to create an LB that's inclusive for every player and gives the sense of constant meaningful progression which is sorely missing from the ecosystem at the moment. And that requires a granular approach, so that every daily action can feel meaningful (and give dopamine).

By having the collection value represented by a very large number (illuvirank style, but removing duplicate animals), we can give value to many different attributes, making it inclusive for every type of player.

• If I'm a whale short on time and want to buy high level, high TPI illuvials from the market > my number go up.
• If I only have a monthly budget of 10 dollars to play, I can do 40 runs on stage 1, catch a bunch of illuvials and level them up > my number go up.
• If I already have a full collection I can get points for that already but I am now incentivised again for trying to get them in holo and DH > so my number go up.
• If I'm new and just trying out the game, I will already make progress from my very first run and see my number go up, etc.

For collectors, the "infinite grind" and constant progression is the main feature, not to mention that this is how you can incentivise just about everyone to spend in the game. If I can make progress by buying, and fusing, and training them up, I can always find a reason to spend more money. And even if I had a shitty run in the OW, or bad luck with rng in gauntlet, at least I made some progress with leveling up my illuvials so I can still get some dopamine...

[sharp galleon]

Well like you say here again "This should incentivize some form of having multiple as well"

I think if we have this the cap is just so high and it also doesnt go well with the games

In game(s) im incentivized to own the very best i can of each illuvial x1 for my team

The way i see its more a representation of how good your team is and less a simple collection book

not everyone wants to compete always all the time, collect n chill
You can collect and chill if you want, no need to look at the leaderboard. Just like right now most people just look at their 1 leaderboard of their game

And now with this leaderboard the arena/ow people who like to collect would also look at this leaderboard if they want too

[sharp galleon]

So far people are voting more for the leaderboard to be automatic than to be an album like beyond

Theres already a 3rd party leaderboard at illuvirank(.)com

Its not a game, you made top 100 without having to do anything! congratz

[slender viper]

I agree with the idea that the cap should be so high that basically nobody will ever attain it or maybe 1 person after they spent an insane amount of money

One of the reasons why I bought illuvials recently was to climb the Illuvirank leaderboard and it's not even an official one, if one day I hit the ceiling along with 50 other players it will feel lame

[heady flax]

Is this a mobile only view?! Why can't I seem to find the Holo / Darkholo collection progress on kine

[vernal sun]

It works also on PC, here's the link: https://illuvidex.illuvium.io/

[violet vine]

That's nice to have hopefully rewards is good as well I just can't wait for the MMO to be launched hopefully all our collected illuvials are worth it

[lean path]

Yep, I think a maxed out collection is impossible (100% tpi with all 3 finishes), and even a full DH collection is questionable, we must be at least halfway through set 1 illuvials and we still have some that don't even exist in DH.

I don't think you need to worry about too many players completing it 😅

[final needle]

Having 3 collections: To do things correctly and it's not much additional dev work.
• Normal
• Holo
• Dark Holo

[toxic fern]

Maybe reward fuel ⛽️ based on collection 🤔 surely would be a good incentive to hord or even buy illuvials. I always felt like treatment between Arena and OW is a bit unusual. Arena you get rewarded even if you don't buy or own
....but if you Own illuvials you get 0 incentive. So yes a great idea....but i would not make it part off BP as not everyone playing Arena 😉 call me when it's fun. I like simple things 😌

[somber musk]

It was one of the most reasonable ideas I’ve seen lately, but I guess they won’t take this into account either. We’re getting really tired of this indifference.

[sharp galleon]

Hey guys, this idea got the 25 👍 so it will move to an official proposal eventually

I would like to merge the reward part with it (#1428071923677401099 message) but it seems that not everyone has seen this associated thread

I would like to invite you to take a look and make sure to vote/comment on it

[slender viper]

It would be nice if you could keep your collection points even when lending your illuvials @tepid harbor

[sharp galleon]

This moved up to an official IIP

#1430992244290355314 message

[lean path]

Gonna leave my feedback in the IIP here as I can't post there.

I am one of the dedicated collectors of illuvials so I am part of the target audience for this and I was super excited when I read this idea, I was actually thinking of suggesting something similar myself.

But the proposed version is not doing it at all for me, for multiple reasons.

1 - absolutely not interested in the proposed rewards. I don't have time to grind the battlepass and I have no idea how this seems to only consider one subset of the playerbase (gauntlet players). What about the beyond collectors and OW players, who don't play the battlepass? Giving out seasonal NFT rewards have already been proven successful and motivating for the players in Beyond.

2 - by only counting one version of the 3 finishes, this turns into a whale game and demotivates new players from competing. A whale can get a set of high stat DHs - unreacheable for most players - and sit passively at the top. If players get points for all 3 versions - AND you need to level up all 3 - there is much more room for smaller but active players to actually have a go at this as they can collect and level up a lot of the color versions and even the holos and a good number of low stat DHs. Whales would still win out eventually, but it's a lot more difficult to own and level up 3 different finishes from each illuvial. So this is a serious limiting factor for active competition, IMO.

If this is done right It would be a powerful marketing tool by itself. Tier 0s would have value again, bringing in new players. (Yes, some of them would be extractors but nothing sparks word-of-mouth advertising like making a few dollars by finding a high stat illuvial for free and sell it on the market, and some of those players would get hooked)