#Reward council and DAO participation.

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

whole lodge
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You should always incentivise and reward work not look to get people to work for free.

It simply doesn't work, a better proposal that what my fellow <@&814435151307866142> member @leaden olive put forward would be to reward DAO governance with paid rewards for hitting agreed framework of added value.

Same for council, base pay and bonus based on performance.

You'd see people putting in effort and rewarded over the base only if they go above and beyond.

It's always a net positive and would help the DAO figure out whom is working for the betterment of the project, both council and community.

Community members that have proposed ideas that have driven meaningful value add i.e revenue growth or player increases should be rewarded and other community members can see this and take this into account for council elections.

If you completely strip council pay you'd see a big drop off in quality of candidates and certainly would see less activity in time allocated to the project.

TLDR reward good people and hard work. Don't punish it, capitalism works. Let not try to be some communist/socialist like DAO

All the best,

Josh 📈🚀To_The_Moon Illuvium_Logo Atlas_Love

leaden olive
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Based on this thread logic, we have seen a big drop off in quality of candidate since the salary went from $5k to $1.25k

balmy harbor
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Who decides the remuneration? There's going to be arguments.

whole lodge
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There's always a floor people are willing to give up time for.

Framework would need to be solid and agreed upon.

leaden olive
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The council decides our own salary, terms and role

whole lodge
limpid mantle
# leaden olive The council

I’d expect a system or policy to be established that would require some outside input regarding any bonuses.

balmy harbor
# leaden olive The council

OK, I just remember working on an incentives program for a group of traders.

When it's performance based people get a but argumentative because you know, everyone is special...

leaden olive
limpid mantle
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vILV seems unlikely to be helpful, but hey I don’t trust populism

leaden olive
sinful compass
whole lodge
sinful compass
mint hamlet
whole lodge
whole lodge
sinful compass
whole lodge
sinful compass
limpid mantle
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While most of us don’t see the different revenue flows much of it can be differentiated and is seen by someone

whole lodge
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Originally I thought only stakers and land holders should be eligible for DAO Gov rewards.

However if a 3rd party non staker can add meaning value to the project we shouldn't give them a reason not to.

Pros and cons to both. Keeping this to Stakers and Landholders gives them the opportunity for rewards as it should and be a value add for staking and owning land.

leaden olive
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so this is on top of the monthly fixed salary and 0.05% of revenue that the council is getting?

limpid mantle
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I seem to have missed that council members get a percentage of the revenue. That’s pretty clearly performance based compensation.

Ah… this is not just about council members, but about Incentivizing overall DAO governance participation. Maybe would be best tackled as two separate “programs”. But certainly good to talk about the idea together at this point.

rotund torrent
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I agree that there needs to be an incentive but we own ILV. We own assets. If those go up in value isn't that our reward for spending time here contributing?

pallid steppe
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I agree with this proposal

whole lodge
# leaden olive so this is on top of the monthly fixed salary and 0.05% of revenue that the coun...

If you drive meaningful value to the project why not?

Remember any bonus would ONLY be given when earnt.

I highly doubt the vast majority of token stakers or land holders would be unhappy paying someone a bonus if they drove a huge uptick in sales/player count for example.

Paid incentives/comission work.

What doesn't get results is the reverse i.e 0 pay/incentives. You want good results then this proposal will enable people to benefit IF the project does meaningfully.

limpid mantle
leaden olive
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KOL need to get bonus for promoting the project which is directly influence revenue, on top of the alliance program

limpid mantle
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Screw the mods. kektalik They can earn governance rewards too. Plus in game rewards.

leaden olive
whole lodge
leaden olive
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So its political too, someone can share the reward to the council

whole lodge
leaden olive
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We have many passed proposals that are not implemented josh

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or ru saying this to get a reward for your passed proposals?

whole lodge
leaden olive
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define meaningful

whole lodge
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That's up for discussion. Revenue growth,player counts are two I have listed already.

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I feel your going round in a circle here Jag and looking for a hole in something I've not said.

leaden olive
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nope i like KPI

whole lodge
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Plainly.

If you put a proposal forward that gets implemented and drives meaningful value add in an agreed framework you earn rewards/bonus.

Both council and gov participants.

whole lodge
leaden olive
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i was gonna work with scruba to setup council KPI but didnt think its gonna work

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theres a huge diff between ideation and implementing. i did implement the balance scorecard in my company with 400 employees

whole lodge
leaden olive
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lets see what you come up with

whole lodge
# leaden olive lets see what you come up with

For sure I will outline my thoughts in our next council meeting.

This is something for the whole DAO to give feedback on.

So please get your thinking cap on yourself and give some input.

It's a we not a me proposal.

leaden olive
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like u said isolating which idea contributes to how many dollars prob gonna take more effort than the actual implementation of the idea

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unless the idea is a spesific product, for example im proposing for beyond wave with d1sk price of $1, i will share 5% of my reward for the council member who votes yes

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we can game this together to make the most of money

sullen crow
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upvoting cause its worth more thoughts. On paper it looks good but it hard to implement properly

I like the idea that this is for anyone and not just council members. I want to say thought that this is a specific thing and that most council work wouldnt get included in this. For example, as the arena representative in community council, i can do a good job by being as close as i can to the arena players, bridging this to the arena team as needed, to threads that arent necessarily proposals (e.g. QOL threads for the team, new patch feedback thread, etc) and bring community sentiment as well i can in my meetings regarding arena

Regarding proposals themselves i think its also touchy. Again i think the idea is great but i feel there will be many situations where its hard to calculate something

For example, one of the proposal i did back in the day was to have multiple leaderboards (total, wave, set) in beyond while increasing the rewards so more people could participate. At the time, imc said this is amazing idea, btw we are just now working on wave3 big proposal so we will decline your proposal and just include it in our proposal coming soon

i dont even remember if imc did the proposal after all but ultimately my idea was implemented but not through a proposal. And even if it did though it how to you go on and assess how much this impacted revenue, retention, onboarding players, etc?

I dont want to list multiple examples but im going through recent proposals in my mind and thinking that for most it seems impossible to tie it to revenue/players or any other concrete metrics.

Some proposals are also about stopping something from happening. They could save millions or save us from losing a thousand player but how can we mesure this?

TDLR: I like the idea but i feel its very hard to fit those things in a framework

leaden olive
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Yea we can just reject your idea so we dont have to pay you

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ethlizard had something similar where the council members get paid a percentage of the investment exit, last time i checked they dissolved the council

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im not sure paying someone for their idea is a good thing. ideas are cheap, execution is everything. we should give the bonus to the executor which is labs

whole lodge
rare iron
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I agree with a lot of the points in this thread, and there's some nice discussion going on.

That being said, I am by no means brainy enough to think I have any meaningful added ideas, that can help this come to pass in the correct way, but my 2 cents would be that I am always encouraging of the things that will bring value to the project, and illuminate the members of the community who are here for the IP, with genuine care and love for the game/team.

Following that, I agree with your point Josh, about some form of pay or compensation, that will continue to encourage people to put in their full effort and passion. I think stripping away pay entirely, just diminishes the value we could be harnassing, dramatically; whilst having too high of a pay, attracts people who's hearts are not truly invested in the project, but more inclined to extract and play face.

  • I like where this proposal points, and I'd love to see some of you brainies continue to discuss it and see what you can come up with! But ultimately, I just want the people with a true passion for what we're all building, to feel appreciated, encouraged to share thoughts and ideas, and to be noticed for their valuable contribution.

and I truly believe a very large amount of this round of council, have very good intent for the project! Which is fantastic to see!
Thanks for getting this chat going Josh

tame ginkgo
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Obviously there needs to be a lot more that goes into the structure of this, but I do believe this is a great solution. We need to reward those who put in the work, not punish them.
The council can do great things and help the project thrive. These past couple epoch have certainly been slow, but I've been on council for other epochs where a lot more was happening and without quality people in those council positions things could have broke.
I personally think the previous pay cut did discourage some high quality candidates from running and cutting the pay completely would be even worse.

tldr: I support rewarding work and the idea @whole lodge is putting forward.

soft ferry
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I think the core idea has merit but I don't think it's something ez to implement (at least the community side of things). That being said any idea that aims to reward merit is always worthwhile spending some brain cells on.

Regarding council, I think the idea of zero pay is ridiculous, we won't be able to attract quality ppl nor will anyone put the effort if they're not getting paid. Council runs the DAO and there's a lot of stuff that can be improved in that front, but that gives work and takes time. Sure, right now we're not in such a busy time as it has been in the past, but we're all here wanting for things to grow in the future so we shouldn't be taking short sighted decisions. Now that we're having a low proposal submission rate is exactly the time to improve the DAO structure and not be creating threads to remove council pay and complain that there's nothing to do because council can't improve game dev speed or increase revenue generate.

Being council member is all about how much someone wants to push the DAO forward. They can do absolutely nothing or they can do a lot. You can't expect someone to come to council as a volunteer and expect them to meaningfully contribute and put in the work. Things just don't work like that... We already have the example even when getting payed that some members don't work imagine if there was no pay at all.

My suggestion and what I would like to see would be the council self & peer review change from a 4 month period to quarterly and have the council pay be correlated to the evaluation score. This alone would be a huge boost to motivate council members to work and perform above and beyond their average efforts. But this only works if the council pay is worth putting the time and work.

The only thing removing council pay would benefit the DAO would be for us to save an extra $8k a month. But let's be real, is that really a problem and would that make such a big difference when we're spending half a million each month?

leaden olive
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Please explain how council runs the DAO?
Why do you think the peer evaluation is a good indicator of performance? It is a subjective evaluation

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One part of the peer evaluation or 20% is to give score on the council member's ability to evaluate proposals. Well we have no proposal to evaluate for the past 3 months, should we all get 0?

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A better evaluation need to be based on measurable objectives

soft ferry
soft ferry
leaden olive
soft ferry
leaden olive
soft ferry
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just FYI I got the evaluation form and I can just take that question out if we decide so

leaden olive
soft ferry
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stop making excuses for everything and start presenting solutions.

leaden olive
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do you use subjective performance at your work? or do you use KPI?

soft ferry
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show us your KPI

leaden olive
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?

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  1. Governance & Decision-Making

Proposal Participation Rate
% of governance proposals read, discussed, and voted on.

Proposal Initiation & Sponsorship
Number of IIPs/GCCPs (or equivalent) initiated or championed that lead to meaningful outcomes.

Rationale Quality
Depth and clarity of reasoning provided in votes and discussions (measured via community feedback or peer review).

  1. Community Engagement & Transparency

Community Touchpoints
Frequency of hosting AMAs, governance updates, or open discussions with token holders.

Responsiveness
Average response time to community questions or governance threads.

Sentiment Impact
Improvement in community trust or satisfaction, measured via surveys or sentiment analysis across Discord/Telegram/Twitter.

  1. Strategic Contribution

Alignment with DAO Goals
Track whether votes and initiatives align with long-term DAO roadmap (e.g., decentralization, revenue growth, ecosystem health).

Working Group Participation
Number of active contributions in subcommittees (marketing, esports, tokenomics, etc.).

Initiative Outcomes
Success rate of council-backed initiatives (e.g., funding esports → increase in active players, treasury allocations → growth in partnerships).

  1. Accountability & Deliverables

Meeting Attendance
% attendance in council meetings and workshops.

Task Completion Rate
Share of assigned action items delivered on time.

Reporting Consistency
Number of periodic reports/updates delivered to the DAO.

  1. Ecosystem & Treasury Impact

Treasury Stewardship
How effectively treasury proposals supported ecosystem growth (ROI, cost-savings, risk management).

Partnership Contributions
Measurable outcomes from external collaborations or sponsorships pushed by council members.

Revenue-Linked Governance
% of governance decisions that had a demonstrable link to player acquisition, retention, or revenue growth.

  1. Personal Integrity & DAO Values

Conflict of Interest Declarations
Timely disclosures of relevant affiliations or conflicts.

Adherence to DAO Constitution
Zero violations of DAO bylaws or governance processes.

Peer Evaluation
Feedback scores from fellow council members at the end of each epoch.

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In practice, the KPIs need to balance quantitative metrics (attendance, proposals, voting rate) with qualitative measures (quality of rationale, community trust).
Some DAOs even implement “delegator scorecards” where token holders periodically grade council members, and those results directly influence re-election chances.

rare iron
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@jagged wadi - include your message without the esports link. The link was blocked

soft ferry
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how can token holders grade council members when they have no idea what's going on inside 🤣

jagged wadi
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How do I get it back @rare iron ?

leaden olive
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🗳️ Main Council KPI Scorecard

  1. Governance Activity – 30%

Proposal Participation (10%)

Target: ≥95% voting participation on proposals.

Proposal Sponsorship (10%)

Target: At least 1–2 proposals initiated/supported per epoch.

Rationale Quality (10%)

Target: Provide clear, well-structured rationale for ≥80% of votes.

Metric: Peer or community review rating (1–5 scale).

  1. Community Engagement – 30%

Transparency Reports (10%)

Target: Deliver bi-monthly updates or AMAs.

Community Responsiveness (10%)

Target: ≥80% of governance-related questions responded to within 7 days.

Sentiment Impact (10%)

Metric: Positive DAO sentiment trend across Discord/Forum/Twitter, measured by poll or sentiment tool.

  1. Strategic Contribution – 20%

Working Group Participation (10%)

Target: Active involvement in at least one subcommittee (e.g., esports, tokenomics, marketing).

Initiative Outcomes (10%)

Metric: At least one council-supported initiative leads to measurable results (e.g., player growth, treasury efficiency, marketing impact).

  1. Accountability & Deliverables – 20%

Meeting Attendance (10%)

Target: ≥90% attendance in council meetings.

Task Completion & Reporting (10%)

Metric: On-time delivery of assigned tasks and periodic progress reports (≥80%).

✅ Scoring Method

Each category scored 1–5 by objective data (attendance logs, proposal stats) and community/peer review.

Weighted score calculated as:

Final Score=(0.30×Governance)+(0.30×Community)+(0.20×Strategy)+(0.20×Accountability)

Thresholds for evaluation:

4.5–5.0: Excellent – strong candidate for re-election.

3.5–4.4: Satisfactory – delivered core responsibilities.

<3.5: Underperforming – community may reconsider mandate.

rare iron
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@jagged wadi
I really like this idea and would love to see tangible goals published for all. For example:

  1. Council minutes published ontime with more detail (AI transcription is a no brainer here)
  2. Improvement in community onboarding. For example, a council maintained wiki with all meeting minutes, burn reports, arena documents, investor information, key wallets, 3rd party partner links, etc. Essentially a one stop repository of everything Illuvium. A new player could take weeks to gather all this information in its current form via discord searches and moderator questions. I would volunteer to help set this up and host it if there is interest.
  3. Organize community/organic marketing events with existing gaming clubs. This is a no brainer. As an example, nearly all universities have gaming clubs. Why not incentivize a council driven campaign to get community members to visit and do giveaways to these groups. Introduce them to Illuvium. This could spread quickly.
  4. Arena highlight videos on social media. Would love to see daily highlights of the stunning Arena battles from awesome camera angles.
soft ferry
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thanks GPT

leaden olive
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gpt 5

jagged wadi
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That you for posting it @rare iron thought I would have to retype 🙂

leaden olive
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the only way the community can see the performance of a council member is through the eyes of the other council members.
how silly is that

soft ferry
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lol the community sees how the council performs by what comes out of it...

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they have no clue how each council member behaves

leaden olive
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the community has no way of knowing how each member contribute in meetings

soft ferry
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and what the community asked last epoch was for transparency, so stop conflating things.

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you were part of one of the worst decisions so far which was EP-1

leaden olive
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we had more transparency last epoch
oh and u think you would do better? you were voted by the stakers and you joined the team lmao

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EP-1 was put together by the team filo

soft ferry
leaden olive
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i was against using an EP, u can read my chat in the council channel its all there

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we are three months in and no one who were against it is proposing a revision to using EP

jagged wadi
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How about each council member provides a quick review of what they worked on/accomplished for the period at the beginning of the council meetings so it is included in the minutes. Those get back to the community.

leaden olive
soft ferry
leaden olive
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cmon man when started this epoch half of the meeting was you arguing with kieran

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and i had to break it up because it gone too long

jagged wadi
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And then if you want each council member update could include not only what they worked on/accomplished in the last period but also what they "plan" to work on in the upcoming period. This could be time boxed to 2 mins each to keep it brief. This is a very proven agile meeting technique.

leaden olive
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well yea we dnt need a second meeting in the week

leaden olive
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most of the time council can only remind labs, we are very limited in what we can do

jagged wadi
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If something is pending and dependent upon something else, you just say that in your update

whole lodge
leaden olive
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i think im getting to understand the dynamic of council members.
new people who joins the council would have so many ideas and things they want to achieve. this was me in epoch 9 and 10, while the old members are more quiet and just give opinions.
im in that stage now, while the new blood like filo and josh got so many ideas.
what happened to me (or maybe scoriox too idk) we just got burnt out pushing things but not getting exactly how we expected it

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this is why i wont be running next epoch, who knows, you guys prob wont get burnt out and you get what you wanted from the council

whole lodge
leaden olive
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this is how i started last epoch

image.png
leaden olive
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maybe pass this proposal to ensure my departure 😂

gray reef
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Seems like a great idea but also a nightmare to implement.

fickle nova
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It’s helpful to finally have some explanation for your lack of motivation. I understand that serving three epochs in a row can be tiring.
I can see how, if you’re unable to find meaningful areas to apply yourself, it could become frustrating and leave you feeling unfulfilled as an IMC member.

I wish you all the best going forward.

rotund torrent
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Well, since we are off-topic and this has become a whole should Jag be on council or not. I will go on record and say you got some of my votes Jag because you didn't stay silent and disappear on us when the whole fuel thing went down.

That is my number one pet peeve. The number of council members who have a presence right up until we elect them.

leaden olive
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You have personal issue with me and has been trying so hard to throw slander at me

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i have screenshotted evidence of your most recent attempt to falsely accuse me. so back off lol

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i have been performing my duty as IMC, as required by gov v3

leaden olive
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You are making it worse, i can go on public with the evidence of your slander if you keep this up

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you are a manipulative person

rare iron
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Lets try keep the personal stuff in dms or on a different discussion - would be a shame to lose sight of this thread discussion at it's core

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Not saying you're wrong or right btw Jag

leaden olive
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I am trying my best, but seems paz has been pushing me to resign both in discord and X

rare iron
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@whole lodge Would love to know if any of this thread or points around it get brought up in next meeting! Please let us know if anything develops on this idea!

leaden olive
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My promise is to stay honest and give the community transparency

balmy harbor
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👀

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Its brave of you guys to have this transparency, this is the type of conversation that gets to the root of any issues.

balmy harbor
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I will stop talking shit in Token, I had no idea we had these issues that need resolving first.

leaden olive
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i think someone who is still fully siding with the community is dr.spoon, i hope he will never change or join the team

echo crow
fickle nova
# leaden olive You have personal issue with me and has been trying so hard to throw slander at ...

Nice try at what exactly? At making the obvious conclusion that if you say you are burned out and demotivated, you should either step it up or step down?

“You have a personal issue with me and have been trying so hard to throw slander at me.”
I can get more specific if it helps you understand where I’m coming from.
I have an issue with how you treat people disrespectfully. How you take pride in trolling people. How you’re paycheck collecting in council. How you take pride in paycheck collecting and push for the bare minimum at every corner. How you verbally attack people when you’re losing an argument. How you constantly rely on logical fallacies in almost every conversation we have.

I am not intimidated by your out-of-context screenshot posting. You have already broken the NDA multiple times by sharing council chat and screenshots. Do what you have to do, but don’t try to blackmail me with threats.

“I have been performing my duty as IMC, as required by Gov V3.”
Nobody suggested otherwise—you’ve definitely meet the absolute minimum requirement.

“Lmao stop the lies, man.”
Lies? What lies? You yourself said you’ve been slacking and are burned out.
And even if you hadn’t admitted it, it has become pretty obvious

“You are a manipulative person.”
That sounds more like projection. I’m stating facts as I see them. You’re the one resorting to ad hominem attacks and shady argumentative tactics whenever an honest discussion doesn’t go your way.

All that said, as always, I’m open to forgiving your loose accusations, name-calling, and toxicity. Otherwise, we’re just stuck in this job together.

I’m impressed that you showed humility by admitting you’ve had a hard time as a council member. That’s the first step toward bettering yourself, and I’m glad you said yourself today that you’ll give it one more try to actually put some work into the role. Thank you for that.

leaden olive
# fickle nova Nice try at what exactly? At making the obvious conclusion that if **you say** y...

Paz you have been attacking me since last epoch, just because i did not agree with viper's proposal. You are buddies with viper and you are copying him to attack me. You even copy his style of calling me names and then play victim when you get responded.

I am perfectly capable of doing my roles and responsibilities as IMC member.

You are living off council salary.
You said it yourself that council salary pays for your rent. Your only motivation is MONEY. You are squeezing every bit of the DAO's treasury. Now you want you get paid from BOTH council salary and the IPL job. Well done man.

You are treating me disrepectfully. You called me a troll when you lost the argument.
You are the definition of nonsensible. You make everything about yourself, Please get yourself a clinical assistance.

You have broken multiple NDAs. This is not a threat. This is me proving myself because how insanely manipulative you are. Yes keep gasliting people. Please get yourself checked.

You called me misleading for posting about Polemos raises fund. I gave you the evidence. You didnt show remorse and i had to called you out.
Please STOP the LIES.

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Paz, i told you many times. I dont care about you or what you do.
Not everything that happens around you is always about you. There is nothing i gain from you so please stop crying. Grow some balls and leave me alone

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Stop putting words in my mouth and assume what i meant or how i feel

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You already apologized to me for wrongly accused me of misleading. I accepted the apology and i have asked you to stop telling lies. Why are you still doing this?

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I am an honest person, I dont tell lies like you do. I dont manipulate people to secure a paycheck from the DAO to pay for my rent, unlike you paz.

blissful portal
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@leaden olive @fickle nova - to be blunt you’re both as bad as each other here. Completely derailed the topic at hand for some personal beef.

Look at what this says to the community which you’re meant to represent. Look at what this says about us to anyone new that happens to read this or the other areas that this has been happening.

If you really feel that strongly, trigger a VONC and be done with it.

Let’s stop this and get back to making the DAO better. Please.

leaden olive
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Im sorry, I have to defend myself from paz.

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He normally attack me in council chat, but he decided to do it here.

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Paz, we were all in the meeting today and admitted how hard it is to be the imc. Each of us admitted the challenges.

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Filo said it, I said it, josh said and you said it. We all did.

rare iron
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That's twice it's been asked for this to be left now. Stop speaking about it please; lets have this be a place to get back on the topic if people want to further discuss it; not personal disputes.

sterile forum
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If anyone can implement such an idea it would be @whole lodge I think it’s worth at least looking into

fickle nova
# leaden olive Paz you have been attacking me since last epoch, just because i did not agree wi...

Just more blunt lies again. I live in my own house, but somehow I’m paying rent?

And this just proves exactly my point from above—you attack the person instead of addressing the argument.

So be it. I’m done with this discourse, and I won’t address all the other bollocks you’re trying to convince yourself and others of. I find peace in knowing you won’t run for council again.

Enjoy your last few months of paycheck collection.

rare iron
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I beg please stop this atlas_sad

rare iron
mint hamlet
echo crow
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The only moments you see paz is when he promotes his videos, wants funds taken from illuvium for his events, or his salary is threatened. And that's what the whole the council will become eventually. Streamers using it for their own advantage

random hill
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keep it on topic guys.
thanks 🙂

whole lodge
dusky gate
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So much posted here that I haven't really been able to take it all in, so I'll just address the original post.

Although it is possible to run good communities with volunteers, it only makes sense when the entire community has always been this way. Illuvium is highly commercial, with a long established tradition of paying community contributors, rewarding players, etc, hell... one of our original taglines was "Fight for ETH".

Illuvium needs to be mindful of runway and costs, but there needs to be solid financial incentive to encourage strong contributions. For example a base rate plus KPI incentives seem very reasonable in the context of council.

That said, there should still be an avenue for people to contribute for free if they want to. I don't think we should "look" to get people to work for free, but I don't see any harm in appreciating efforts and initiatives which are driven by community members without having to convert that appreciation in to payment.

Maybe something like a community contribution award voted monthly could work, but it would need to be carefully administered.

mint hamlet