#Zero Council Pay, Fund Leviathan

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tawdry musk
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Over the first 100 days of Epoch 11, the Illuvium Council has not passed a single proposal. In prior epochs, the council’s primary activity was voting on IIPs and providing rationales, which directly shaped DAO direction. By contrast, governance activity this epoch has been noticeably quieter than Epoch 9 and 10.

That said, the council has still contributed in other ways, such as providing suggestions to Illuvium Labs, following up on outstanding items, formulating and manning the IPL.

However, I personally do not find compelling evidence of a positive correlation between council operations and revenue generation or the speed of game development. The DAO’s treasury is ultimately finite, and it’s worth asking whether certain expenditures are yielding the best possible return.

Currently, council compensation is $8,250 USD per month. This thread is meant to explore whether reallocating that spend toward incentivizing the Leviathan Gauntlet could have a more direct and measurable impact on Illuvium’s growth.

In my view, rewarding Leviathan Gauntlet participants has a higher likelihood of driving engagement and generating revenue compared to maintaining council salaries. Let's hear it from the community.

autumn geode
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Leviathan Gauntlet doesn't get incentivized without this proposal?

tawdry musk
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i mean we can add to it

idle tapir
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I think the two should be decoupled. We don’t have to reallocate the funds straight away/at all

autumn geode
tawdry musk
autumn geode
tawdry musk
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ru trolling

autumn geode
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no

tawdry musk
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just say what u wanna say lol

autumn geode
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i did?

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have you given it actual thought before writing?

tawdry musk
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?

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ru high?
do u agree or not in adding $8.25k to leviathan existing rewards

autumn geode
tawdry musk
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oh god spoon

autumn geode
tawdry musk
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how to say u dont want a pay cut without saying it

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😂

autumn geode
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i'm not perse against it.
This acussation coming up already just proves my point
Aswell as not being able to answer simple questions.

Another question coming up for me is, can the dao still act as a protection layer as it does right now from a legal pov?

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Did you ask yourself why there are no proposals forwarded the last months?

tawdry musk
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why ru talking in riddles?

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do u talk like this at home? just say what u wanna say lol

autumn geode
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and again i did 😄

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can't take this serious... write something up that is actually reasonable and you gave it some thought and we can talk again

tawdry musk
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why do you think this is unreasonable and what do you think is reasonable?

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please dont say "go figure it out" because thats gonna sound like my wife

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and she left

autumn geode
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Currently there is no fix structure in place for Leviathan incentives, you also didn't outline a specific structure.
So there's not really a way to track the additional funds that would go into leviathan.
In like wouldn't the roughly 8k that would be paid out on top of this month have been structured anyways.
The only thing set up is the Guild organized leviathan tournaments which are intended to be monthly as far as i'm aware.
This month being hosted by Tempest gaming guild with a prizepool of 10K.

Also i guess the reason why leviathan doesn't have a weekly leaderboard, or why Illuvials get exp in ranked Arena (which doesn't really make sense in my mind, since you don't use your illuvials in ranked arena) is to not split the playerbase and keep everyone playing ranked to not increase queue time there.
How would you incentivize leviathan with the additional funds?

Also in my experience majority of people work max what they get paid for.
Higher pay doesn't mean necessarily more work gets done, but lower pay for sure means less work gets done.
(I'm personally of the opinion that everyone should roughly get paid for what he is providing in value)

To be completely honest, at the moment it looks like a typical jaganite brainfart on how to max polarize with least amount of effort.

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runic plover
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I sold my deck for levi mode so pls concentrate only on f2p and Gountlet . We need more players f2p and pls decrease stats and levels in Levi mode coze i want to spend around 10 bucks on deck/ I don't want grind levels and want to win ppls with full stack deck and 60 lvl.

tawdry musk
# autumn geode Currently there is no fix structure in place for Leviathan incentives, you also ...

this is exactly why we need a baseline as minimum rewards for leviathan. you see how the levi tourney rewards pool could be $1k, or 150-300 token.
what do you mean by tracking it? you just allocate a fix amount and make a schedule.
if those guild want to sponsor one they can just add to it or the other way around.

and im spesifically mentioned tourney not leaderboard exactly because of the playerbase limitation.

i mean if u disagree with adding rewards to levi, just simply say it and provide with an alternative. maybe a modding lesson so u know how to keep a conversation civil

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about bewing paid for work, u do know that the founders arent paid for maybe a year right ru calling the founders not working this whole time?

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my argument for zero council pay is because we do not have much governance activity, for now at least. now prove me how council works directly contribute to revenue generation and ill rest my case.

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im mean cmon man ive been in the ICC, and we only met to talk about what other dudes talked about in a different meeting. i barely hear anything from the ICC this epoch unless i asked for it. u guys dnt do newsletters anymore, only have 1 proposal to pull in github

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so tell me what value have you earnt from the $1500 the dao paid for

pure temple
novel harness
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@tawdry musk if you really think council pay should be zero then why don't you give the example and show us you're in good faith and donate your first 3 months of pay?

tawdry musk
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nice try

tawdry musk
novel harness
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I'm fine with that, if that's what IMC decides.

tawdry musk
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Its from a passed proposal

idle tapir
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Go talk about that in council chat

tawdry musk
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i cant believe ur trying to find an exception

restive coral
real dune
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Council has been useless since the beginning. Maybe not only useless but detrimental to the project too. It has been filled with random degens play pretending they know what they are talking about, while milking free tokens.

I thought this council will be different, but so far with or without it it seems it's all the same.

The only reason council exists is for it to be a scapegoat, when something doesn't work out - oh but we are a DAO, we take decisions as a community Atlas_Yeah

One quick question - who voted for pivoting to Gauntlet? For removing Ascendant? For pivoting to a MMO? After answering that, you will know if a council is needed or not

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People like Spoon are an exception, but he was just as useful and good even without being on icc

tawdry musk
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i think labs has done well and will continue to do well without council.

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council is for giving advices but we do not run the project. i can honestly admit that i do not know anything about how to run this project or how to develop the games after spending 3 epochs

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ApeCoin DAO, BAYC, has been dissolved, 99% of their community voted for it

tawdry musk
novel harness
pure temple
# real dune Council has been useless since the beginning. Maybe not only useless but detrime...

Yes, I also like Spoon. He is clearly useful. In every aspect.

I didn’t want to bring this up before, but since everyone is throwing dirt now, can I join in?

Here’s what it takes to get into the Council right now:

Step 1. 1–2 months before the elections, you need to create the illusion of activity. For example: start replying to everyone’s questions in every chat thread within seconds. Doesn’t matter if you’re an expert or not. The key is to impress.

Step 2. You need to get in the whales’ good graces. Be helpful, act very active, and never argue. And if anyone asks you a question — go above and beyond to find an answer. If Kieran likes you, you have a good chance.

Step 3. Hoping for Kieran’s vote is great, but don’t forget — you have to buy your spot. Distribute your tokens across a large number of addresses, then vote for yourself from each one. It’s legal. The winner isn’t the most useful player — the winner is the one who paid for their spot.

Step 4. After the elections, maintain the illusion of activity. But not for long! One month is enough.

Step 5. If a pleb like Winnie asks for your help, respond: “I’m already spending more time on you than anyone on the team would. That’s enough. I need to spend time on myself.”

Step 5. Alternative. If you lose the election, create a Twitter post trashing Kieran (who voted for you) and the entire Illuvium project. But don’t worry. People will forget. Come back a few months later and start telling everyone how you’re an expert in Web3 and Web2 games.

So, if we’re talking about dirty politics, it’s exactly the same, with one exception: they create the illusion that spots aren’t for sale. Here — it’s completely obvious. Spots are for sale. Legally.

If I had written this right after losing the election, people would’ve said I was speaking from emotion. But I’m genuinely happy I lost. Because I feel like I would have been a naive sheep working while others just create the illusion of activity.

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I find all politics disgusting. Because it’s just dirt.

I see crowds of sheep believing the lies of politicians.

But I don’t see anything new in the Council.

Draw an equal sign: Council = Politics.

Specific individuals in the Council are incredibly useful and active. But only as individuals. The Council as a whole is just dead weight.

The very idea of removing the Council isn’t entirely correct. What you need is to rethink how the Council is implemented.

Spend your time, work with neural networks, consult experts. And find a solution where specialists get paid for actual work, not for the illusion of activity.

I think the most optimal approach here is strict centralization. Why? Because I don’t believe Kieran would be naive enough to hire people who don’t actually work. He is strict in this regard. And he constantly fires everyone just to optimize expenses.

If you aren’t hired for a full-fledged job, it means you aren’t good enough.

Throw tomatoes at me, I’m not afraid of you.

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@tawdry musk By the way, I’m not really in the loop. Why did people start hating you so much? I haven’t interacted with you enough, but I didn’t notice any particular toxicity from you.

From the outside, your conflicts look like school bullying. A bunch of kids picking on one because they have a different hairstyle.

Are you not working / insulting someone, or what?

tawdry musk
idle yew
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Upon further reflection, 0 pay should have been instated at the start of the Epoch. Forcing people to decide whether to stay or step down this late into the game would probably do more harm than good.

I am not opposed to reducing pay by 30% or so and using that for a lev pool of some kind, but really I'd take ranked rewards and put them there

tawdry musk
tawdry musk
pure temple
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@tawdry musk
Do you want to rehabilitate your reputation? I’m offering you a full investigation! After which no one will say that you’re showing low activity. I have information about a major bug. It has already seriously harmed the economy of our game, but that’s not the point. This bug is still being exploited to this day.

I need a person with two competencies:

  1. Someone who can actually help me. Not someone who creates an illusion and tells me: “I’ve already spent a lot of time on you, that’s enough, I’ll focus on my own things,” but someone who will see it through to the end.
  2. Someone with an economic mindset.

Isn’t that what the Council is for? If you’re an economist and you’re on the Council — help me with action. Fix a major bug in the game that is being brazenly exploited. I need someone who is comfortable with probability theory and numbers.

And if you help, you can create your own faction. I will vote for you.
||But don’t forget to buy a bottle of self-tanner.||

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@tawdry musk
If there’s something you don’t like about the game but no one listens to you, you can always go on Twitter and start spreading FUD about Illuvium. Everyone will tolerate it. That’s normal.

But I seem to have some kind of mental anomaly. Probably Solon really flows in my veins.

When the Illuvium project is in trouble — I feel bad too.
When Kieran starts the hype — I feel good.

If I start publishing information about the bug publicly, it will cause FUD. Or it might even look like blackmail or something like that.

But I want Illuvium, the patient, to be healthy.

Heal this wound ||(the bug)|| on Illuvium’s body. Then I’ll believe that the Council actually provides real value.

@restive coral and I are two fanatic fools, spending countless hours of our lives and nerves trying to fix a bug in the project. But most people (not all) I’ve reached out to — don’t care.

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Let me repeat — when I talk about indifference, I mean that NOT everyone doesn’t care.
@novel harness and @woven nimbus are a beacon of hope in this darkness.
Thank you, guys. You’re truly helpful. I respect you.
These two people are actually putting in the work.
Help them.

tawdry musk
pure temple
tawdry musk
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ok u can tell me

jolly torrent
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The council is a total waste of money. Fund leviathan

real dune
# novel harness Curious to know what were you expecting from council this epoch? To your questi...

To answer the first part, that was my point, I don't expect anything anymore, it doesn't seem to make any difference in the most important decision making, or has not been able to so far. I've raised my opinion on the council structure before, certain things handicap it in it's current format.

I don't want to speak against the mmo too much, going to look like I'm fudding. Raised my opinion on that too, you were part of it. From what has been released so far, it does seem like it has good potential so we will see.

My point here was that we could have done alot alot more with the current assets we had before moving to something as grand as this.

mystic gulch
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I am not sure how many times I have thumbs upped a get rid of council pay idea in the last 4 years.😂
I bring up the same question I always bring up.
Do we have to have a council for legal reasons? The majority of the time I have been told yes and sometimes I have been told that they need to be paid to add to the legitimacy.
If that is the case then all of this is a moot point....again.
I would like to see some compensation be given as a token of appreciation in the form of Fuel.

If you flip through feedback ideas I feel like few people even read them any more. Maybe that is a good sign maybe that people are playing the game instead of thinking about the game? Or maybe it is because some who were deeply involved with the idea of governance have left. Or maybe it is because when we come up with feedback we are told the team doesn't have time to do it, so community has stopped being as involved and let the team do their thing. Regardless of the reason, of course there are less proposals to write and the job description of council may have changed to being more about privately gathering feedback to take to team and liason work.

tawdry musk
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Atm we dont have plan to have the DAO registered anywhere.
im not a lawyer, but my understanding there is very minimum incentive to pursue one. the trump administration seems to be deregulating crypto

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we had trump and melania coin, whos gonna sue anyone when the president of the world is doing it

real dune
pure temple
tawdry musk
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its crime szn

blazing fox
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I had great expectations for DAOs: humans are still involved so politics and the grift still reign. The DAO and council were here to protect labs from liability. Liability from what? We cant fight for ETH (gamble) which was the original vision and liability fear. Gee wiz we even have prize money in usdc lol. What we now have is a web 2 game studio that was crowdfunded by crypto tokenization. I think we should stop pretending. Council compensation should be reduced to some free fuel because everyone on council loves to play the games and would be more than happy to be compensated in this manner. Put the 8 grand a month to better use.

mystic gulch
autumn geode
# tawdry musk this is exactly why we need a baseline as minimum rewards for leviathan. you see...

i'm totally for getting a fixed shedule for leviathan
currently it's the monthly tournaments where the prizepool is expected to be the same, it's not like we do a 10k prizepool this month and next month it's a 100$ prizepool.
Before leviathan gets to something regular like the IPL a balance for stat impact has to be found as outlined by aaron in arena chat, next to other stuff like retention, playerbase increase, feedback etc
And as Stuart mentioned above, this shouldn't be dependend if council gets paid or not.

Governance activity being low is pretty obvious, last council found that current governance is in a good shape and is not needed to change and declined the gov v4 proposal a workgroup put together.
Game dev wise, there can't be any proposal since majority of the devs are focused on the MMO behind close doors, can't do GFP's GIP's if you don't know what exactly is coming.
Arena needs all devs available to fix bugs, improve gamestability bring some balance everything else gets rightfully denied by imc anyways.
Beyond is so well communicated with the community, there's pretty much no proposal needed, since you just can chat with devs and everything reasonable gets implemented in the not so distant future as we have seen with ideas/feedback from community during the past waves.
Zero... well... i guess we not need to talk about that 😄

Could that change in the not so distant future.
I guess so, if the team manages to pull of the VS in the not so distant future.

Zero pay for council is a legit ask, but don't think just short term... there shouldn't be another proposal during next epoch we need to increase council pay because xyz.

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Proposals in general where it is about saving money, is it pay of staff or rewards should in my opinion never be linked to spend the saved money then there.
If you can save money that's great, if you need to spend money somewhere for whatever reason do it
But don't spend money somewhere just because you saved it somewhere else.

green glade
# tawdry musk Over the first 100 days of Epoch 11, the Illuvium Council has not passed a singl...

I’ve previously supported council fund deductions because, at this stage of the project, all available resources should be directed toward fleshing out products, refining them, and marketing them effectively.

FIRST: ICC Work

My concern with politics is that it often optimizes the wrong things. When the council’s primary function becomes voting on proposals, it risks evolving into a bureaucratic apparatus where members generate endless “proposals” to create the illusion of productivity—just to look busy for the next election cycle.

I’ve witnessed countless hours spent on initiatives (like Gov V2 & 3) and debates that had no measurable impact on revenue generation but resulted in “lots of proposals.”

At the start of this epoch, I even told my fellow ICCs that the best proposal would be to disband the ICC altogether. Why? Because in prior epochs, I mostly saw vote-grabbing proposals that did nothing to enhance the community experience. My peers asked me to give it three months before making a final judgment, and I did. While I still believe shutting it down could be justified, I now see incremental progress:

Council Voice and Play: At first, almost no one interacted with us. But recently a newcomer engaged with us on Illuvium DAO, which showed our intent is beginning to work.

Illuvium Guides: Nearly complete, these will directly help community members.

Illuvium Townhalls: In progress, with one planned for the coming weeks.

So while this isn’t yet the most efficient allocation of DAO funding, meaningful steps are being made, and I feel more positive about ICC’s role than I did at the start of the epoch.

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SECOND: Resource Allocation

Let’s assume I agree with you and we free up $8,250 USD per month. I do not support putting that money toward additional Leviathan tournament prize pools—we’ve already allocated plenty in that area.

Instead, I would advocate for either of these two options, which I believe could truly grow our player base:

Hiring two additional developers to accelerate Arena Mobile.

Contracting a professional marketing agency for ~$10K/month over a full epoch to measure results.

FINAL THOUGHTS

Eliminating all council pay risks disbanding the DAO. A minimum level of compensation ensures accountability and professionalism.

Speaking personally: I don’t do this for the money, but without any pay, I couldn’t commit the same amount of scheduled time and effort—family obligations simply wouldn’t allow it (my wife would kill me Atlas_Dead ).

bronze plover
tawdry musk
# autumn geode i'm totally for getting a fixed shedule for leviathan currently it's the monthl...

$10k plus $8k is $18k for leviathan, thats almost as big as the IPL without the final event. Leviathan is our economy driver, it is our flywheel. Well, i disagre with stat as an issue, if im spending tons of money in illuvials i should be rekting everyone to get my money back.
Can u imagine being a whale watching slickz taking home $150K without having to spend on illuvials? Why tf would i want to invest in illuvials?

Anyway thats beside the point, we can use the fund for something else. I rather we decide what to do with the money. Who knows maybe hire dev for Zero

tawdry musk
# green glade I’ve previously supported council fund deductions because, at this stage of the ...

Hi tholky thank you for your feedback.
I had the same thought when i was in the ICC. The meetings were kinda weird because we were just talking about what IMC talked about last week without direct feedback, we needed to wait for a week to relay our respond. Sometimes we had a hard time to fill the 1 hour meeting too. When I was ICC, i did the Monthly Newsletters and Github, it almost felt like ICC can be done by 1-2 person.

Yes, i agree there are other ways to reallocate this budget, like hiring dev or marketing.

tawdry musk
autumn geode
blazing fox
copper saffron
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I like some of the council members, I wish them to earn as much money as possible and I think that they are valuable for Illuvium

That being said I'm not sure if it makes sense to give them a salary as you could probably find good council members who would be willing to do this for free

If it's necessary for regulation they could probably do the same work for $500 to $1k per month

It would be better to implement this change in the next epoch

tawdry musk
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imo giving salary to council makes more sense when the business is generating revenue or when governance activity is high, we have neither.
our operating expenses have been cut more than half.
we are in a survival mode.
we are spending $250k on 300 players, luckily most of the prize pool is donated by aaron

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we only had 107 wallets voting for the IMC

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maybe we just need one person to run governance like what @novel harness is doing

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idk why we need 10 dudes to do a one man job

real dune
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We need ppl in IMC who can steer the project in the right direction, from basic gameplay to overall vision. Not just governance, labs need help with gameplay and vision decisions, as it's evident from the one million wrong decisions we made so far, which were all voiced and raised in advance

real dune
tawdry musk
tawdry musk
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the salary cut from GCCP-4 was pretty tough too, i had to spent lots of time negotiating

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my whole campaign for the election was transparency

real dune
real dune
# tawdry musk how?

We have had that discussion at length before. Need a massive council and voting reform. But the ego is a nasty thing, nothing is going to change

runic plover
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My personal opinion about consuls.
Should they receive compensation for their work? Yes.
Should it be in dollars? No.
In gas? Yes.

Why?
From all my time observing the work of the consuls, I can say this: whoever pays their salary is the one whose opinion they support. They practically have no right to speak out against the team in our public spaces, except at their private meetings.

Many times, the team decided to do something that the community and players were against, yet the consuls blindly supported it without providing any evidence. It was mostly along the lines of “we think this,” “we feel that,” “this is boring.” But their opinion always fully coincided with the Illuvium team’s stance, and there was no one defending our position. And if someone did dare to speak out, the next time they were no longer a consul.

For the community, there’s no real benefit from such consuls. All the consuls who once genuinely supported the project eventually “gracefully exited” when the project downsized — meaning they were there for the money.

I saw many times how people who supported the community’s general opinion would completely change their stance once they became consuls. Consuls paid by the team cannot adequately support both the project and the community.

Is there any use from consuls? Yes.
Do they have any influence on the project? None.

We don’t have a DAO. We only have the project team’s decisions, and that’s it. So all those votes and other processes are just smoke and mirrors.

From the results of their work, we don’t see any reports about what the consuls are actually doing. Even in the reports that they stopped posting, their work on specific topics isn’t visible — like who proposed a topic at the meetings, and so on. All we see is “I’m for” “I’m against” and a short description they made up themselves to justify the team’s decision.

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Meanwhile, on the forum, we have hundreds of posts from the community opposing those same decisions

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Вот перевод на английский:

When I pay someone a salary, I get a report showing what they’ve done. Right now, I don’t understand the actual scope of work of the consuls, and why they don’t seem to have their own opinion or defend the opinion of the community. It’s unclear to me. Maybe that’s not really the case, but I don’t see it anywhere

real dune
runic plover
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Unfortunately yes(

real dune
# runic plover Вот перевод на английский: --- When I pay someone a salary, I get a report sh...

Let's take the IPL for example. As someone who has played and watched esports since StarCraft 1, I'm very much interested in what is the logic and thought process in prioritizing and running the IPL in this exact moment, when we have 200 active players. Usually the esport angle is used to snowball your playerbase and engagement, not kickstart it.

I want a detailed 1) 2) 3) report with pros and cons on how that decision was taken by each <@&814435151307866142> member. Thank you in advance

tawdry musk
real dune
tawdry musk
real dune
gusty sedge
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About the Original Post:

I believe people should be paid fairly for the work they do.
At the same time, if a council member feels they don’t deserve the compensation they’re receiving, or aren’t willing to step up and put in the effort to earn it, then I think it’s only right that they either step down or forfeit their compensation.

As for me, my conscience is clear. I know the work I put into the council brings real value to the DAO, and I do it at what I’d call a very modest compensation for the value provided.

As for Leviathan, this is a whole other topic and should not be mixed in.
Leviathan should continue to receive funding, no matter what happens around the council. It is our main utility for ownership and a critical foundation for the project.

On the IPL: I was a main driving force in creating its structure and facilitating everything logistically around it. The original initiative came from Labs, with Aaron bringing the Tournament Organisers together to figure it out collaboratively. Over the course of months, this focus group worked hard to find the best structure and step by step arrived at the final rulesheet we now have—with IMC cooperation and Labs’ direction via Aaron and Kieran.

When we decided on the prize pool, we deliberately aimed for the lowest possible value that would still yield the strongest marketing impact. In that sense, the IPL was designed very modestly in terms of prize pool—we’re far below other Web3 and Web2 games but still high enough to attract pro players. Why launch now? Because the game is finally stable enough and ready. Competitive players have waited far too long, and instead of waiting for a player base to magically appear, we used the IPL as a marketing tool—with recent focus particularly on the Brazilian community.

Our competitive game was always going to have a Pro League. It’s far more structured and professional than our old grassroots tournaments. The $250k budget is very modest, with around $150k already recuperated by Aaron himself. Every step has been taken in cooperation with the IMC and voted on accordingly.
This season is about testing the waters, bringing in new players, giving value to current ones, and—most importantly—preparing us for Season 2. I see this as a kind of “Season 0,” getting everything in order so we can truly take off next year.

real dune
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There are other ways those goals could be achieved, than starting the league rn. The IPL is cool by itself, I'm wondering about the timing of starting the esport league itself. It is Season 1. I would imagine it's better to have more people involved in such a memorable event

tawdry musk
tawdry musk
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Correction, you originally asked for $400K, and there was a $1.2m proposal that the council turned down

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You also asked to get paid for running the IPL

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We do appreciate your work, but lets not pretend this is a charity

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The focus group is led by slick who is likely to be most financially benefited by the prize pool

gusty sedge
# tawdry musk Correction, you originally asked for $400K, and there was a $1.2m proposal that ...

"Correction, you originally asked for $400K, and there was a $1.2M proposal that the council turned down"
Wrong. The $400K was simply an example prize pool in an early draft of the IPL ruleset, mainly to showcase the prize distribution for the players in the World Finals main event.

"You also asked to get paid for running the IPL"
I never denied that. I know it might be hard to see and understand, but I’ve been working tirelessly with the focus group and Illuvium Labs for many months to create the IPL. That was without compensation, as part of my IMC role.

"We do appreciate your work, but let’s not pretend this is a charity"
Again, nobody ever suggested it was a charity. I considered it my responsibility as the council member most closely connected to Illuvium’s competitive scene, and I’ve explained that above.

"The focus group is led by Slick who is likely to be most financially benefited by the prize pool"
Wrong, and a wild assumption given that you have zero insight into what actually happened inside the focus group. He helped as a main advisor in the beginning—which made sense since he’s on the esports committee—but was gradually consulted less and less as we got into areas where he was most biased, like prize pools.

tawdry musk
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we had a council meeting where slick and patate were pitching the prize pool

bronze plover
steady compass
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Every time I consider... Should I run for council myself, I see some kind of embarrassing drama or infighting that should never be made public. Then I slap myself for ever considering it.

In fairness most of you handle yourself pretty well, but it seems there is drama every epoch!

tawdry musk
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yea its politics. Viper is right, council salary is like a payout for content creators because election is always about popularity.
Peer evaluation kinda ensure you need to play nice with the other members otherwise you will get bullied and scored low regardless

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if you remove the money incentive or at least pay salary in fuel, you will completely remove nominees who run to make a living out of council pay

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you will get a council members who run solely to make their investment work

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if there is no one running that means you have a bigger problem

idle yew
# tawdry musk yea its politics. Viper is right, council salary is like a payout for content cr...

Paz is currently the only content creator serving on IMC, and despite having the second largest active following in the community as a 'creator', hadn't been elected to IMC previously. Historically, even if you include the ICC, creators rarely made up more than 2 positions in all of council.

I could see the argument that popularity plays a role, but I'd dismiss that creating content is a bad thing. People like Josh and Filo, and yourself all became popular because you put forward ideas and ways to improve the DAO, in the same way a content creator might do the same, just on a different platform.

Viper isn't wrong, but to isolate content creation is madness. Council salary is like a payout for actively recognised contribution to the DAO, long before you are elected, which I wouldn't say is a bad thing.

tawdry musk
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im not saying it is bad, im just saying the fact

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election will always be a popularity contest, as oppose to merit base contest, unless we do background check and call the references

idle yew
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So its 4/9. Still not a bad ratio

real dune
idle yew
jolly torrent
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We need 8 more 👍🏼 😏

real dune
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"strategic steering" 😀

idle yew
tawdry musk
real dune
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What's the point of this council then? It's literally the most important part of this project and DAO

tawdry musk
novel harness
# real dune Game development is kind of the most important thing, as it's a gaming project f...

Council should definitely not be involved in game dev decisions. Why would 5 random dudes elected with most likely no expertise in the area be the best choice to even take these decisions?

What council does do, is approve treasury spending and decide on big overarching decisions for the project. And contrary to what Jag says, council is not just about tax exemption. It's a decentralized structure working for the community.

If the community leverages that or not, that's a different discussion. But I don't see how the lack of current community engagement should jeopardise the future of the DAO, by making short sighted decisions and removing council pay.

The DAO structure still needs someone that works on improving it. It's already very well built but it still needs improvements in some areas. By Jag's logic council job is only to vote on proposals, therefore council has had no job, but if that is so than I leave you this question: Who'll write gov V4 or do any other DAO improvement GCCPs if not for council?

tawdry musk
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ive proposed 2 of the things i wanted from gov v4.
if i remember correctly ended up proposing small changes to get better chance of passing them @calm bison

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on approving treasury spending, that is debatable. Labs can spend on marketing and game dev without council approval

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we do provide our opinions but ultimately labs can do fine without us

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just think about it, council doesnt have treasury wallet key, AWS credentials and discord credentials. What power do we really have?

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sure we can pass proposals, but we cant enforce them

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we cant even make labs to pay the landholders outstanding. is this power?

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How is it possible for the council to improve anything if it cant deliver the 40eth owed to landholders from one year ago

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i guess, Prove me wrong

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Council cant even post the proposals to be voted on snapshot. We have a proposal that should have been voted on 2 weeks ago. Is this power?

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How can we improve anything if we cant even get it posted?

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You know the answers, but i will be here when you finally take the red pill

real dune
# novel harness Council should definitely not be involved in game dev decisions. Why would 5 ran...

Define "definitely"? How many examples do you want that if we had people in council who had any idea what works and what not, they could have prevented alot of nonsense that happened. I can go on this all day.

Many of these things were obvious and called out well in advance. Not taking action and continuing with the mindset of let's try and see what happens can be blamed directly on the IMC for the epoch of that timeline, as it's supposed to be the governing body of the DAO. Or am I wrong about that part?

By using your logic, what do 5 random dudes elected with most likely no expertise have anything to do with approval of treasury spending and decide on big overarching decisions for the project? That logic makes no sense.

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Or it makes perfect sense, depends on what angle you want to look at it.

novel harness
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but as with every election process people get what they vote for.

real dune
real dune
novel harness
tawdry musk
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against the people who pay their salary?

real dune
novel harness
tawdry musk
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who are the biggest voters?

novel harness
novel harness
real dune
tawdry musk
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but you should not be saying that lol you were elected by the community and then quit the council to join the team

novel harness
tawdry musk
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you cant work for council if you are team

novel harness
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just kick me out then, you'll be doing me a favour.

tawdry musk
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i cant, you have that power

real dune
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You can move that discussion in the council chat 😀

tawdry musk
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i think this is a healthy discussion