#Illuvium Roadmap - What Needs To Happen Next

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lethal brook
gusty badge
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Thanks for sharing Fillow! Appreciate you taking the time to go so in depth across the entire ecosystem

There's alot to respond to here - I will give my personal feedback later today on the entire document (after family visit is over in a couple hours)

summer sable
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yep

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need to find a way to effectively comment on this

hazy abyss
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Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this document @lethal brook. I want to address some important key notes.

"OPEN DEVELOPMENT"

Do you have supporting analysis to show that this approach has been proven to work for other development companies?
Or is it more of an idea you came up with?

"ILLUVIDEX"

I really like the rebranding of the repository; this has been brought up in the past but seems more like a technicality.
The real ingenuity comes with implementing reward multipliers for filling out your Illuvials.
This ties into the much-requested album feature as well as the proposal from Viper to make ownership matter for unlocking rewards. Big big fan.

"Immutable zkEVM Migration"

Changing chains is being discussed internally, I believe, but I'm not sure if it is a must-have before the MMO.

"Streamlined Interface for Non-Unique Items"

It's a no-brainer to allow easier trading of duplicate items.

"Illuvial Burning Event"

I'm not in favor of excessive burning of assets in our current state. I would much rather see us onboard the masses (which would be easier with low asset prices) and then analyze the numbers with an actual player base instead of burning away assets while we are still in beta.

"Fuel Price"

If I'm not mistaken, I believe it has been confirmed by the team that most things will be pegged at dollar prices in the future.
For example, Stage 1, 2, and 3 runs will have a fixed cost.

"DAO’s Fuel Ratio"

I agree that the 1:19 fuel system was a misplay. It was basically done this way to reduce the risk of demand outweighing supply, but we went hard in the other direction, so I would like to see it put in order.

"Future Land Sales"

I don't think another land sale is needed in the near future.

"ILLUVIUM ZERO"

My current stance on Illuvium Zero is this: https://x.com/illuvination/status/1883380983094714561

"ILLUVIUM ARENA"

There are big changes coming, and we will soon know all about it with the drop of Aaron's blog.

After that, I will also have an AMA with him, so feel free to submit questions here after the blog if anything is still left unanswered.

https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1328263635671322654

"ILLUVIUM BEYOND"

Purchasing D1sks using fuel
This has been confirmed by the team.

"Allow players to buy D1sks directly within Sanctum Mesa,
D1sk Fragment (Approved GFP)"

Yes, please. But it's a nice-to-have feature, not a must-have, and right now the team needs to focus hard on the must-haves for a while, I think.

"Automated Drone Runs"

We have too little info on those at the moment to effectively comment on them, I believe.

Again, thank you for taking the time to put together this priority feature list. Great job!

Illuvination ♊️ (@illuvination) on X

Seeing a lot of "What about landowners?" comments here.

Unpopular opinion, but the best thing Illuvium can do for landowners right now is to focus entirely on Arena and Overworld. Prioritizing the main games is what will make Illuvium succeed.

If Illuvium wins, landowners win—

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lethal brook
# hazy abyss Thank you for the time and effort you have put into this document <@179925123065...
  • "Do you have supporting analysis to show that this approach has been proven to work for other development companies? Or is it more of an idea you came up with?"

Yeah, I’m sure about this. For example, all games crowdfunded through the Kickstarter platform thrive on open development since backers expect consistent updates, early access, being involved in the development phase and all that good stuff.

I've been following Ashes of Creations Development for 8 years now and their open development is on another level. They show everything... Current progress, game systems, technical stuff. So far so that they've kept the community hyped till this day and every monthly livestream the number of views increases. They’re set to be the web2 MMO giant we’ll be up against.

The good thing for us? They started development before NFTs were a thing, and Web2 gamers still aren’t into Web3 or NFTs, so their community hasn’t pushed them in that direction.

Honestly, though, I think our problem is that we have a middle-man gate-keeping the information. And it's the council. But if that's not the case and you guys know basically as much as the community does, then I honestly don't get what's even the benefit of having council. Just hire more community managers like Rich.

summer sable
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the imc minutes are really detailed, sometimes they are too detailed.
tbh ive requested for view-only access to the team's JIRA but it was denied due to security concern. i guess we can do an IIP on it if that is what ur looking for

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most of the time the answers we get on deliverables have been "soon"

lethal brook
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and this actually ties back to what I was saying cause having true open development reduces the hype-induced disappointment.

summer sable
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i agree with you. i believe the more open the project is the better chance to restore investors confidence

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lets be honest we had two supposedly bullish announcements (mmo lite and virtuals collab) but i didnt see the PA, of course argueably alts and gaming in particulars are underperforming, but we should have bounced the hardest

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i agree with you, i strongly believe we need gain trust back

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words are just simply not enough

lethal brook
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indeed, cause trust is something really hard to gain but very easy to lose...

lethal brook
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have you guys realized that if the DAO was selling fuel on a 1:1 ratio for now our entire economy would have been ok? Very sad to see such a bad game economy design. And such a lack of vision that no one could fix it before the economy got ruinned. You chose to stick to the IIPs instead of actually saving your game economy.

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And the worst part of this, is that it wasn't even worth it! The revdis sucked and it just disapointed the ILV investors.

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And if you guys reaaally wanted to stick with the 19x ratio a single line of code would have solved the problem. The DAO would only sell 19x IF fuel price is higher than price target. Solved.

runic sonnet
shell fractal
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they are bent on killing the project

lethal brook
sinful arch
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There are many valid points here and have been brought up at council. We are pushing several of these forward. I will comment on open development. I think having key focus groups could be beneficial. Not necessarily full open development. I feel many community members including my self at times have terrible ideas and could cause decision paralysis, and lets face it a lot of these investors while key for us are not able to make good game design choices.

shell fractal
lethal brook
# sinful arch There are many valid points here and have been brought up at council. We are pus...

you're right, it's not as straightforward in our case as it is with web2 games, since there are community members with financial interests, rather than just focusing on making the best game possible. That said, I'd still love for us to improve in this area. It would be great to get some more updates on how things are progressing.
@grave oak used to do this, and it was great. At least, keep the community somewhat in the loop about what's happening at the Labs.
Why do you think the community sentiment is at an all time low? Because they have no clue about the current state of affairs and more promises for the future doesn't cut it any more.

runic sonnet
sinful arch
# lethal brook you're right, it's not as straightforward in our case as it is with web2 games, ...

Sentiment is currently low because the game, in its current state, struggles to attract and retain users. We are also not leveraging a P2E campaign that enables anyone with a smartphone to earn yield. The core issue remains: why would someone choose our game if it doesn't match or surpass the quality of its competitors?

That said, I am optimistic about the large update planned for Gauntlet. If even 80% of the key features outlined in the recent blog post are implemented successfully, Gauntlet could gain significant traction and begin taking market share from TFT. However, achieving this will require smooth connections, crash-free performance, and an overall high-end experience—areas that remain significant hurdles. These challenges will likely become even more complex once multiplayer servers are live. I know it sucks that everyone is down, but to be honest I don't think we can change that till we have a majority of these updates are done.

I’m confident in the vision presented in the recent Arena blog post. It highlights the potential of what Gauntlet can become, and this has reinvigorated hope for me and several community members I spoke with during a recent voice call going over the vision.

I will be honest there are some items in this blog post that I would have loved to be informed on though. And I will push for focus groups. as Mentioned above

lethal brook
# sinful arch Sentiment is currently low because the game, in its current state, struggles to ...

Yeah that as well ofc... The game should have never been launched. Another topic I tried to be very vocal about back then.

What pisses me off is that if I was running this project we would currently be thriving instead of the lame state we're at. I've been ahead of the curve. Every single time. But I guess this is how things go, you win some you lose some.

We were still developing ascendant and there I was making a game pitch for Beyond with 2 game modes. One F2P and the other with NFTs. Pushing that we should never gate our games with NFTs, but rather have them be the way to unlock rewards.

But enough ranting for one day.

gusty badge
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Thank you again for taking the time to share this feedback and encouraging this conversation amongst the community

__OPEN DEVELOPMENT __

Agree that open development would be a good thing, many of us miss the leaks and information they used to share. I am happy that they plan to partially release gameplay around the MMO-Lite to get feedback from community.

ILLUVIDEX

Rebrand the repository and add integration with rewards = I am in the camp of NOT LIKING the current name. As for rewards, this would tie into “Beyond” which creates a unified reward system throughout multiple aspects of the ecosystem. Overworld (Illuvial Collections & other items) needs a special touch like what was done for Beyond’s massive overhaul & improvement.

Streamlined Interface for non-unique items = This would make it so much easier to manoeuvre and allow more freedom, especially if multiple purchases/sells can be completed easily
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Immutable zkEVM Migration **= This does not seem feasible to migrate to any chain. But I agree the problems with

**Illuvial Burning Event **= A burning event prior to migration would make sense, however, part of the reason to avoid burning events is that if we hit 1million players, there are not enough assets presently…and then you would need to extend Set 1 of illuvials to ensure there are enough assets in the future. An OPEN-Burning event = bad idea since this could be an decimation of the current assets in the ecosystem. More thoughts towards this is required for sure.

Fuel Price / DAO’s Fuel Ratio / Ful Balance and Fees / Improve the fuel exchange (Approved IIP-66-R) = __Apologies, but not commenting on anything fuel related. __

Future Land Sales = No comment; We are far from being near selling any future land plots. This is my honest opinion anyways.

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ILLUVIUM ZERO

Training Gyms (Approved GFP) = I like the idea around the F2P plots – but we are in the GFP process waiting on the GDD. So seems like discussions and ideas like this would be good to share with the Team. GFP Process explained (cannot post link): IIP-60 Gameplay Feature Proposal

Fuel Merge and Economy equilibrium = There have been discussions around Fuel and will limit what I say around it.

**Blueprint Overhaul **= There needs to be changes made to this process. Seems an entire overhaul is required. I agree with comments from the Team publicly that we need a gameplan laid out for a SOLUTION and then how current blueprints will be migrated before any final decisions are made – in my mind, this will need to be a decision that goes through governance since it affects many parties.

ILLUVIUM ARENA

Streamline Weapons and Armor = Announcement Today seems to find a solution to this, along with some other promising changes coming to Gauntlet.

ILLUVIUM BEYOND

**Purchasing D1sks using fuel **= This was discussed and to my knowledge was the gameplan (at least what was shared publicly during AMAs)

Integrating Beyond with the Overworld = Interesting idea and seem pretty easy to do by having a terminal allow you to Access Beyond Album & make Disk purchases

**D1sk Fragment (Approved GFP) **= GFP passed – waiting on next step of the GFP process = Idea is added to the planned feature list. Than Labs will present a high-level GDD outlining their preferred implementation. This GDD is also subject to community review and upvoting. Then Council voting takes place. An approval at this step gives Labs a green light to move ahead with development. (Reference Material: IIP-60 Gameplay Feature Proposal)

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ILLUVIUM OVERWORLD

**Automated Drone runs = **

  • Why do you think they should remove the illuvial’s bonding curve? Would you see this more along the lines of Beyond’s odds? Fixed values and published so you know your odds prior to paying (for automated run or overworld travel)
  • Why do you think they should remove the auto-scan feature? This option would be very similar to automated drone runs, but still allows the players some freedom in how they play the overworld run…
lethal brook
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Thanks for the well-thought-out answer, @gusty badge

Hear me out on this:

First, contrary to you guys, I genuinely believe a burning event would be one of the best things we could do for our game economy right now. Here’s why:

We already have an oversupply of Illuvials for the current community size. Now imagine what will happen when automated drone runs launch, allowing people to farm endlessly at the push of a button. You don’t need to be a rocket scientist to figure out where that leads. And let’s not forget that the game is still in beta, key word BETA. The official Set 1 timer shouldn’t even be considered active until the full game is launched.

You mentioned, “If we hit 1 million players, there are not enough assets presently.” The key word here is “presently.” It doesn’t take an economist to understand basic supply-and-demand dynamics. Right now, we have a significant imbalance between supply and demand, and it’s hurting the game economy.

Plus, now that we’re shifting towards an MMO and not just a creature-capture game, we don't need to launch new sets every 1–2 years. Personally, I hope Set 1 stays for quite some time, with the development focus shifting toward new dungeons and raids instead. This doesn’t exclude the idea of mini-sets to reinvigorate the game, break up stale arena metas, or add diversity to the Illuvial roster. But the constant pressure to create new sets should be alleviated and the focus should be on creating all the MMO monsters, armors, weapons and all that stuff.

Regarding the bonding curve, yes. Cool idea, bad game system. It basically rewards early players while punishing latecomers. Yes everything should be fixed and known before hand. Pretty straightforward.

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Then on a last note and this ties to the auto-scan feature. What were the premises to support auto-scan? Either "I don't have time to play" or "Cheaters are going through the map instantaneously".
With the introduction of automated drone runs, the excuse of time is no longer valid. And if we’re implementing features to counter cheaters instead of focusing on actually addressing the cheating problem, that’s an even bigger issue.

I was always against this idea of the glorified pack opening. A game is a game, either good or bad, fun or not fun, addicting or not addicting. Playing with auto-scan feels like cheating, it’s essentially playing as a GM. It breaks immersion and removes the sense of discovery and exploration, turning the game into something hollow. This feature should absolutely be removed unless someone can present a compelling reason for it to stay.

hazy abyss
hazy abyss
# lethal brook Yeah that as well ofc... The game should have never been launched. Another topic...

Yeah that as well ofc... The game should have never been launched. Another topic I tried to be very vocal about back then.

I could obviously be wrong, but I think the main reason why we released too early is that Illuvium has been developing quite "open" and community close. Where everybody had 24/7 private beta access instead of test weekends and is also invested in the project. Meaning community members felt very entitled and got impatient.

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I'd love to see a huge increase in communication from Illuvium—keeping us in the loop about what's going on. However, open development sounds like an absolute horror for any game dev studio, though.

hazy abyss
# lethal brook Thanks for the well-thought-out answer, <@913445401246461983> Hear me out on t...

I agree that burning our assets and the concern of there being none left for future gamers isn't a real issue right now if implemented temporarily. We currently have an "infinite" supply with no end in sight for Set 1.

As for the burning itself, I don't see any immediate benefit at the moment. Why do we need to reduce our number of assets right now?

Why does an Atlas have to be priced at, say, 20 cents instead of 2 cents? Right now, it doesn’t matter if the floor price of Illuvials is low—it actually helps onboard mainstream users into Web3, in my opinion.

If I can get a full NFT deck for just 5 bucks, I'm excited about having such a low cost of entry into crypto gaming. It's like when a new product is sold at extremely low prices just to attract a large number of customers—you can always raise the prices later once you're established.

lethal brook
# hazy abyss I agree that burning our assets and the concern of there being none left for fut...

Yes, Paz, we all know everyone loves cheap stuff.

But you’re missing the point... Even you said that fuel prices will be set to a fixed value (which I don't think it's the right approach, what we need is fuel to become a stable currency), the cost to acquire Illuvials will also become more or less fixed. And right now, that cost is way lower. Not to mention, I also factored fuel into the burning event. Don’t you see any benefit in creating additional buy pressure for the fuel market as well? Heck, now that all weapons and armors are useless for arena we should throw them as well, or maybe start thinking on refunding owners.

hazy abyss
lethal brook
hazy abyss
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I can definitely see your point that a Burn Event would be beneficial to bring the asset price to the new price of acquisition if there is changes happening in that regard.

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Will update these discussions with Council and Team with your input.

lethal brook
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and what should we do about all the crafted weapons and armors? They no longer have a use case in arena. And I doubt they'll suit the MMO in their current form.

hazy abyss
dull basin
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If I start to bring out receipts of every time I was right about something months or years in advance we would need 10 of these threads. In the end team likes to do things their way, council is pretty much useless, nothing much we can do about it.
And listening to the community can be a double edged sword as it's hard to filter the good from bad ideas, as 99% or more just suck.

Overall things seem to be moving in the right direction lately (except the mmo stuff), it's just incredibly slow.

summer sable
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yea it's pretty much FAFO

summer sable
dull basin
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There's so much untapped potential with the items/crafting even for the current games, it would be a shame if we screw that one up too in order to fit the narrative into f2p tft

summer sable
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gauntlet is one game mode. we can have more in the future.

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the idea of IBG

dull basin
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Yeah for sure, but even in gauntlet there's alot you can do with items, especially for Leviathan.

summer sable
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maybe lets focus on making an attractive game first, then figure out how to fit crypto later

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imo the whole thing is so convulated, restricted with crypto elements that we forgot that gamers just want to play a game.
the talk about rewards, ownership, web2.5 are distractions

dull basin
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I disagree, we can have it all easily, it just needs to be built properly. Of course having a fun & attractive game is a must have, but it's only step 1.

summer sable
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if it's so easy the web3 gaming space would have been thriving

dull basin
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We also made our lives more difficult by digging the niche hole deeper and going for the tft copy pasta. Now our competitor is the one who pretty much established this genre. It wouldn't exist without them. They are also riding on the back of probably the most successful IP in the last 15 years if not ever. And we are going against that. And the main mode being copy pasta of theirs, means we have to be better at everything if we wanna draw players away from them.

summer sable
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we tried not to be a clone with ascendant

dull basin
dull basin
summer sable
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as for no good game yet, yes thats true. Altho i prefer to use the term "popular" instead of good because good is highly subjective

dull basin
# summer sable what makes u think web3 should be easier

Cause you can bribe the players into trying your game. Web2 games rely purely on gameplay, while we have extra guns. Well building a game on a blockchain sounds like a nightmare, but I'm pretty sure it's not a must either.

Usually if a game is good for alot of people, it becomes popular. I still think we are the closest in web3 to achieving that, with much better chances than something like off the grid (said that even during the biggest hype of that game, where is it now). If we manage to reach that potential is another story.

summer sable
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in reality, some people hate crypto game because of the bribes or "money" element

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we can see the comment section of streamers who streamed crypto games

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maple story universe is about to launch, im very interested to see if they can make it

dull basin
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It's a totally fair sentiment, considering crypto games have been a complete failure and/or scams up until now. It will change rather quickly, after someone releases a good game that implemented the web3 features properly

summer sable
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off the grid is more popular than us. and to my eyes it is more developed than our games

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it is F2P, with optional $10 battlepass

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imo OTG is the closest in web3 to gain popularity

dull basin
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It had it's chance man, unfortunately there's nothing new or original to that game besides having some nfts. They have no chance going against web2 titles of their genre. Unless they build more cool features that separate them and utilize the web3 space better, I don't see them having any long lasting success

summer sable
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their limb system is pretty unique.
well i agree with how they approach nfts. blockchain or nft should only be a nice feature to have, gamers shouldnt be fussed by it

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the fundamental issue with blockchain gaming is using the blockchain as a database instead of using sql or oracle. the only differentiating feature is official/legal trading

dull basin
dull basin
# summer sable their limb system is pretty unique. well i agree with how they approach nfts. b...

That word should be banned tbh. I don't call my web2 items an sql database tabs, I call them items, characters, skins etc. I don't see why we should have to mention nfts at all. Just ownership of in-game items which can be traded/sold on a marketplace.

If it is done properly the sentiment will change instantly. There is not a single gamer with more than 5 IQ who wouldn't like the idea of being able to trade/sell their in-game possessions, as long as the game they play is good.

hollow quarry
# lethal brook Yeah that as well ofc... The game should have never been launched. Another topic...

You do have lots of good ideas and I think you might be the single most active community member when it comes to suggestions.

But in this post you are starting to sound like the "magicians" that are showing up from time to time, with their detailed plans that contain the ONLY solutions the game needs to succeed.

Don't degrade yourself to their level. No one gets all the details right every single time, and its very easy to pick out some past suggestions that might have worked (we will never really know that, though), while conveniently omit the horrible suggestions we all make from time to time.

Fully agree on your point to make development more open though, after believing and holding on to this project for years, this recent shift of much less communication with the community is finally driving me very close to quitting. Very hard to imagine a team of 100+ people working super hard when all you see is a couple of balancing patches for arena for months...

lethal brook
# hollow quarry You do have lots of good ideas and I think you might be the single most active c...

Haha, I appreciate the kind words @hollow quarry.

You're right, some people might interpret it that way, for sure. But I still meant what I said, and I said it without hesitation because everything is recorded on this server. Every time my idea didn’t hold up, I’ve always conceded to the higher arguments.

And yeah, I’ve made a few bad calls in the token chat, and I’ve come up with some not-so-good feedback ideas too. But when it comes to game design and game systems, my record has been spotless so far.

Oh, and I don’t think I’ve bragged about the airdrop yet, have I? Man, I was so against that idea. I would always get disappointed when I see Illuvium following trends instead of setting them. They could at least try following the good trends.

vast portal
lethal brook
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But stay with us cause they've been doing a lot of back end work that isn't visible. Servers and reducing the polygon count on illuvials.

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But what's really funny is no one having the balls to come talk about the elephant in the room: FUEL

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big talk before Christmas about big IIPs and what not that were about to come. I'm still waiting...

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yes we know the game economist got fired so there's no one to blame.

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but why not do something for crying out loud?

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@scarlet granite is really good at hyping the project, but it has also been one of the most disappointing / confidence breaking things with this project is the recurrent promises with set dates and never meeting these dates and sometimes not even the promises. Just don't mention them if you're not sure you're gonna make it.

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when you're the frontman of a project what you say matters you know?

runic sonnet
heavy tree
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To be fair, for the first couple of PB releases, Overworld was a full-featured game (for what it was at the time) with no blockchain at all. The blockchain integration was added later, and I've done my best to keep it loose. OW still supports off-chain assets, like ores and consumables, and even Illuvials on our test environments. So I can't speak for the whole team, but I fully support making the blockchain optional, and it wouldn't even take much work to get there, for OW at least.

lethal brook
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the best is yet to come, WAGMI

vast portal
midnight gorge
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No proposals needing to be approved?

lethal brook
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that's the spirit, fuck the IIPs straight to the point.

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governance only drags down everything

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it's like the house is on fire but you need to ask if you can call the firefighters.

vast portal
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I believe it’s already gone through all the proper channels where it needs to have.
I’ll chase up some release notes and see when we’re publishing them 🙂 (better to get it done properly rather after all)

midnight gorge
spiral moss
# midnight gorge Internaly probably... But with changes i expect to come multiple IIP's will get ...

Without knowing what changes are coming you can't possibly know if something will get 'violated'. Please wait until you have all the relevant information before making such bold claims.

I know you don't believe in our council and that's fine, but I'd rather you give them the benefit of the doubt whilst you don't have all the information, thank you.

For example there are new payment rails being integrated to ease onboarding, which obviously doesn't 'violate' anything.

vast portal
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My main point was we're listening to feedback (including this thread) and updates are coming 🙂 We've got things that you won't necessarily see as part of the updates like framework updates that need to happen - but they also offer some nice performance increases. This is happening across all projects by the end of march, whilst you wont necessarily see it, it does help to reduce the cost/increase efficiency. This is of course complete with all the features that the team is working on 🙂 We're also going to try to release on a more consistent basis moving forward instead of waiting for large chunks of code. This will help us get feedback quicker and updates out faster to fix the things that need fixing (like bug fixes which I also class as an update) 🙂

midnight gorge
# spiral moss Without knowing what changes are coming you can't possibly know if something wil...

Sure i don't know, i just assume.
Bold statement after your first sentence 😄 ( " i know you don't believe in our council...").

If there is no violating that's great. With the talk there was in this discord about changes i assumed there will be. (everyone would, most just don't have the knowledge about past IIP's or don't care really anymore)
If there is, that's probably going to hurt the credibility of the governance system in place quite a bit.

scarlet granite
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Thanks for writing up the thread. Many of these things are being worked on, meaning we aren't ignoring them and agree with you. But It's easy to say "well in hindsight, that was a dumb idea and if I was running this place it would be flawless".

Also, regarding me "hyping" up the project. What do you expect me to do? I have massive belief in the team, we have built more stuff than most in the gaming space, and higher quality. We have missed dates but built 3 games at once and actually delivered them. Given, they are all below their potential, and that was 100% a mistake, but we have admitted that and are currently rectifying it. You talk about wanting more communication but then when I do I'm just "hyping" the project up and "talking". So I have decided to take a step back lately and not talk about what we are building and rather just ship product, then you say there is no communication... I don't think you have any idea how hard it is to manage expectations running a studio this size which has had over 300 people working in it all remote, and ensuring we continue to have adequate runway. If you were running it would you magically be able to raise the capital needed? Would you be able to hire experts in web 2 that think web 3 is a scam? Would you be able to build a community to over 500K people? Would you be able to continue working stupid hours for four years in a row making countless family and personal health sacrifices all while dealing with the overwhelming stress of running a billion dollar project? Could you deal with people saying oh well he's minted even though if you look at the last four years i've earned considerably less than what I was earning previously because I have sold barely any tokens because I believe in the project?

This is probably the first time I have ever aired out some of what I go through as the "Front man". I don't complain, I don't ban people when they say I am retarded and have no idea what I'm doing, I just take it, move on and keep on fucking working. Why? Because I believe in this team. I know from seeing it from day one how much we have achieved, and if we get a few things right we are going to be totally sweet and we will succeed. Yes, we have made mistakes, we are a debut studio building a ridiculously large vision, it was bound to happen, but I'm never going to stop believing in our team and I'm never going to stop trying to make this thing a success, and that includes getting excited about stuff we build and showing confidence in our project. You can call that misleading, I don't care, this is how I am.

Rant over.

dull basin
lethal brook
# scarlet granite Thanks for writing up the thread. Many of these things are being worked on, mean...

Let me start by saying that I have nothing but mad respect for you, the team you’ve assembled, and everything you’ve built.

Regarding you hyping the project, don’t take it as a negative, because it’s not. In fact, that’s exactly what’s needed from someone in your position. But for me, the hype doesn’t come from hearing that something will be done in two weeks, it comes from your passion and the way you talk about the project.

When I say I want more communication, I simply mean being more transparent about what we’re building. It feels like you guys are starting to go a little too rogue.

And sure, I have no experience running a project of this scale, but I can only imagine it must be absolute hell.

Thank you for taking the time to write this rant.

lethal brook
# scarlet granite Thanks for writing up the thread. Many of these things are being worked on, mean...

Now, regarding the comment: "But it's easy to say, 'Well, in hindsight, that was a dumb idea, and if I were running this place, it would be flawless.'", I wouldn’t speak the way I do now if that were the case, nor did I say it would be flawless, we're all humans we all make mistakes.

The fact is, I called out some of these mistakes months before they happened. And not only did I point them out, but I also presented solutions for them. That’s why now I have the right to say, "I told you so".

  • I was against Ascendant Mode limiting players’ game access through NFTs.
  • I was against launching the beta the way we did, releasing it with so many untested or poorly tested features and an incomplete game loop without having the Arena ready.
  • I was against the fuel system. I explained why and even proposed a solution.
  • I was against the airdrop. This one was obvious to me after seeing how toxic other web3 communities became due to similar moves.

In all these cases, I wanted to be wrong because I want nothing but success for this project. It just turns out I wasn’t.

scarlet granite
# lethal brook Now, regarding the comment: "But it's easy to say, 'Well, in hindsight, that was...

Totally, but you’re only seeing it from one side. Again, I agree with you on all of those points, but there are many other factors at play that you don't see. The council gets a taste of the rationale and that's why most times someone comes to the other side their usual response is “wow, okay, now I see why they did things that way”. And of course, we could say well lets be 100% fully transparent with literally every single decision ever made, and talk it through with the community gather opinions and then make a call after that, but its simply not efficient, we do much more than most projects, and certainly more than web3 projects but there are Unfortantely limits.

Your opinion is based on the information you have. Mine is based on a lot more factors. Plus, you are one community member, given it seems more rational than most and with sound ideas, but still there are hundreds that have contributed to the project like your self over the years and opening the floor to that many people is literal chaos

lethal brook
# scarlet granite Totally, but you’re only seeing it from one side. Again, I agree with you on all...

Yes definitely. I agree with that and I can understand your POV. This involves too much business issues and dealing with investors. When it should be simply about making a good game.

The only think you should ask the community is about the game, because they're the end clients for the product you're creating. Anything besides that is yours and the council to figure out.

I don't want transparency on that. What I wanna know is:

  • What's the combat state like. I have NO idea.
  • What's the Project Breach game look like. I have NO idea.
  • What core game systems has the team been testing/developing. I have NO idea.

Basically game design stuff.
And to be fair this last dev blog was great.

dull basin
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Tbh I think we need an independent IMC to solve alot of those issues. Having Kieran in it makes the whole thing pretty pointless, as can be seen from various council member replies, that are 1:1 copy of Kieran replies. So either Kieran is repeating their talking points (very unlikely) or they are just going with the flow and repeating what they are told.

Now I'm not saying there needs to be a riot or something, the project is still Labs', still their passion, still in charge, but we need to have an independent voice as a DAO so we can have some influence in certain important moments, like the game launch for example. Wasn't that supposed to go through the previous IMC's approval? I find it hard to believe from 5 people, the majority took a logic based decision to go with it. Most likely afraid to speak up and just collecting their pay checks or worse, didn't even realize it was a bad idea.

But for that to happen, the council, especially imc, needs to be elected based on merit, knowledge, experience and enough backbone to make a good point, not based on highschool popularity.

summer sable
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election will always be about popularity unless in socialist system

dull basin
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Not rly, otherwise taylor swift or beyonce would be running the show now, not trump. If we were governing ourselves through popularity alone, we would still be stone age monkeys.

summer sable
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have taylor swift or beyonce run for president?

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ronald reagan was an actor and one of the most prominent president

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zelensky was an actor/comedian
arnold was a bodybuilder/actor

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clint eastwood

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imran khan
joseph etstrada

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trump was famous for the apprentice lol

dull basin
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Nowadays it's more of a clown fiesta, but some of these examples were also very qualified individuals in a certain area. The scope of their job is also 1 million times higher, no one can be qualified for everything. Their job is to manage. If you gonna compare, who are the imc managing, the team? Yeah right

summer sable
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mostly our expectation

dull basin
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😀

spiral moss
dull basin
# spiral moss Damn cooked with this lmaooo. Trump has a natural comedic talent, I think that's...

How so? One was a talented speaker with amazing domestic and foreign policies, the other a business genius with one of the most successful runs pre covid.

Can we name 5 amazing things any imc has done over the 4 years? Cause I can name at least a dozen bad ones. My point is the team is not the only one responsible for the mistakes, the councils are too and I don't see that brought up often enough. If the whole thing is just for the show and some sort of tax write off then apologies carry on by all means.

lethal brook
lethal brook
summer sable
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dull basin
# spiral moss Lol I wasn't talking about councils. Just loved Jags take on US presidents and p...

Well if you found something that is a well known thing about Reagen that amusing and cooking, have at it by all means. Dunno what's cooking exactly.

Anyways, that was my whole point from the beginning that the IMC's hands are kind of tied and that's why its results are impotent and nothing short of a full blown erectile disjunction. It wasn't an attack on imc as individuals, no need to get emotional.

dull basin
summer sable
summer sable
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im not sure how to enforce a passed proposal to be implemented

dull basin
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Is ok jaga we still love you

midnight gorge
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... joke

summer sable
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dull basin
spiral moss
# dull basin Well if you found something that is a well known thing about Reagen that amusing...

I'm not emotional lol. But yes the IMC hands tend to be tied, when it comes to game development, at least they often times have in the past, but they definitely convey valuable feedback to the team.

When you say results are impotent, games take a long time to build... Maybe with some adjustments to strategy we might feel further along, but honestly Illuvium has been one of the fastest building games of all time. It just feels slow because Crypto moves so fast, and its building out in the open.

dull basin
spiral moss
lethal brook
nova rapids
lethal brook
nova rapids
lethal brook
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this is exactly the problem I was talking in the beginning of this post. The information is gatekeeped from the community in the council.

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so for example, just saying if the overhaul is gonna make fuel a stable currency or not. Why can't we know that?

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cause I'll tell you straight away. If the fuel overhaul doesn't include making fuel a stable currency you can already start scraping that sh1t.

lethal brook
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can someone involved in the fuel overhaul please enlighten me why having fuel as a stable currency is a bad idea?

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lethal brook
lethal brook