#Masterthread: Illuvium Beyond wave 4 improvements

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

sonic swift
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Please share your experiences during the previous Beyond waves!
We are looking to gather feedback to gain insight on what the community would like to see improved for future waves!

Im not saying everything will be pushed, but we can make preparations in anticipation of wave 4 in contrast to the previous waves!

Thanks in advance for all your insights!

slender scroll
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Here's what I would like to see for wave 4:

  • Improved leaderboard.
    -- Show the total prize pool for the leaderboard according to the total ETH spent.
    -- Improved aesthetics.
    -- Faster refresh time.
    -- Better leaderboard sizing and ILV distribution (increase the legacy leaderboard number of spots and decrease the current leaderboard, the weekly rewards is what drives players to keep bonding during the wave)

  • Bulk opening d1sk feature (at least 10 at a time).

  • Add a button to unsleeve all from the current collection.

  • An additional collection for matching backgrounds (max 1 per illuvial).

  • Improve the Lynxes collection to have all their expressions.

  • A notification when new offers are received.

  • Showcase page (Maybe giving us like 10-20 slots for us to fill with our favourite illuvitars).

rapid kindle
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Having the option to buy disks in fuel would give the fuel some more demand, while at the same time making it easier for land owners to Open disks, which would drive the supply for illuvitars up. I think its a win win situation

slate bronze
sonic swift
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Posting for someone else:

Wave 4 specific leaderboard should get paid out weekly or fortnightly to incentivise players more frequently. This avoids what we’re seeing now of people holding off til the end of the wave to properly compete. The current set-up is an improvement from previous waves but leaves the door open to high impact optimizations for future waves. We shouldn’t waste this opportunity and double down on what’s working to provide the best quality product to all players.

sonic swift
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Any other ideas? @native yacht @frigid saddle @obsidian raptor maybe?

How did you experience the start of the sale? How noticeable was the inflation with the free wave 2 d1sks? With the 80 points per disk for this wave we have a factor 8 less d1sks for wave 4. This means that it will already be a lot less significant due to that.

Did you notice difficulties with something else that should be addressed?

Was the promo sale something you enjoyed? Would it have been more enjoyable with a higher point multiplier? Higher price but two Rares? Did the point multiplier take away value from the Alpha sale?

Do you think the leaderboard rewards are fair? I know Alexa wanted Rank 1 to be slightly more rewarded compared to the rank 2 rewards now. (Back when the IIP was discussed) Has that sentiment changed since?

Do we want different tiers for the album rankings? It was 50K - 250K - 1M but 1M has been fairly easy to obtain with some albums reaching 4M now. Should wave 4 see a Diamond album rank at 5M points? Or 10M so that you have something to work towards with set 2?

Im just naming points i saw as issues in precious waves (gamestop) or wave 3, and most have been addressed during this wave. But I do want some recap of the wave and see where any painpoints are for future reference.

native yacht
# sonic swift Any other ideas? <@884124877085343834> <@843006003846184982> <@85965720979754190...

How did you experience the start of the sale? How noticeable was the inflation with the free wave 2 d1sks? With the 80 points per disk for this wave we have a factor 8 less d1sks for wave 4. This means that it will already be a lot less significant due to that.

I thought the start of the sale was great. Certainly nothing to complain about.
The inflation from wave 2 disks was quite significant, was to be expected though and we wont see this going forward so nothing to complain about there either.

Did you notice difficulties with something else that should be addressed?

There are a lot of bugs, some fixed, some persist. I believe they have been addressed though so nothing to add there just yet until the next line of fixes go live.

Was the promo sale something you enjoyed? Would it have been more enjoyable with a higher point multiplier? Higher price but two Rares? Did the point multiplier take away value from the Alpha sale?

I really enjoyed the promo sale. I'm not sure a higher point multiplier is necessary. Certainly wouldn't have altered the experience for me.
Maybe if stretch goals were repeatable, but as the are not, once you've hit them, points are meaningless from that point.
So maybe that is something to consider.
I actually thought the point multiplier on Alhpas made them more appealing.

Do you think the leaderboard rewards are fair? I know Alexa wanted Rank 1 to be slightly more rewarded compared to the rank 2 rewards now. (Back when the IIP was discussed) Has that sentiment changed since?

It is difficult and awkward to comment on this as if this was altered I would directly benefit.
I brought it up previously as I didn't want to just let it slide unnoticed, but yes, my feelings haven't changed.
Also it wasn't just rank 1, I think a few changes to reward balancing/total placements may be required.

Do we want different tiers for the album rankings? It was 50K - 250K - 1M but 1M has been fairly easy to obtain with some albums reaching 4M now. Should wave 4 see a Diamond album rank at 5M points? Or 10M so that you have something to work towards with set 2?

Until we have something like the avatar frames or something similar to represent our rank, I dont think it is that improtant to be honest just yet. Rank has kind of lost it's meaning though since so many people have hit it now.

All in all, a solid wave all round imo, so many improvments.
I'm mainly seeing the need for refinements, outside of a leaderboard revamp and a stronger need to focus on testing/bugs to provide a better user experience.

Great work all round though for everyone involved in getting Beyond to where it is right now ❤️

Wave 4 specific leaderboard should get paid out weekly or fortnightly to incentivise players more frequently. This avoids what we’re seeing now of people holding off til the end of the wave to properly compete. The current set-up is an improvement from previous waves but leaves the door open to high impact optimizations for future waves. We shouldn’t waste this opportunity and double down on what’s working to provide the best quality product to all players.

I would just like to address this as I do disagree.
I think that having proceedings heat up towards the end of the wave is a smart move, as usually players get complacent quite early on after the initial push and we see little ativity towards the end of the wave. With this new setup we start big and we can end big too, instead of ending with a whimper.
At least hold off on any strong opinions until we see how the wave ends 👍

frigid saddle
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W3 def has been the best experience so far

Things I like:

  • Price points on disks, including promo
  • Album upgrades
  • Reward system (amount, legacy ongoing w3 at the end)
  • This wave fostered more community engagement
  • Gold cards
  • Christmas Ador (holiday promo cards)
  • Added rarity/border animations when opening didsks

Things I don't like:

  • Heavy inflation of free w3 disks
  • Album point calculation bugs
  • Gshock background points not fixed or addressed yet
  • Unclear if T0 w3 background will count towards w3 points at the end not clarified yet
  • The big elephant - multiaccounting... I think it's a gray area that should probably be considered more.

and ofc... get that tcg going

native yacht
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One thing I forgot to mention was the Gold cards, although they are beautiful and a welcomed addition, they are far too powerful considering how common they are, at least the tier 5 is anyway.
There are 5 illuvitars in the game more powerful than the Gold Pho, yet there are almost 70 Gold pho. Basically what has taken multiple waves and thousands of $, people can just buy for $300 now.
Not to mention how this kills the demand for the regular pho within the set as it just isn't cost effective to pick one up and bond it when you can just get a gold one.
We are now seeing holo phos listed for just $50. Madness.

I woud suggest keeping the gold illuvitars, making them more difficult to achieve and also nerfing the power a bit too.

slender scroll
# native yacht One thing I forgot to mention was the Gold cards, although they are beautiful an...

I also forgot to mention this. I agree with you on this one but I would go even further.

I don't like it one bit that there are illuvitars in the individual stretch goals, I would scrap them entirely. Having illuvitars in the stretch goals only harms Beyond since it takes away from the main point of Beyond, which is to collect illuvitars. There's no point in opening an extra d1sk trying to find that holo T5 when you can get a holo/gold version of it that's just as good power wise and it's already bonded. This also decreases the demand for accessories.

These exclusive holo/gold illuvitars should only come as a reward to the top players of each wave. That way since they would only be rewarded in the end of the wave it doesn't take away from the wave's illuvitars and doesn't devalue them like it happened in this wave.

One last thing I'll mention is I've been seeing the promo illuvitars power increase with each passing promo sale. I hope they don't increase any further.

dim narwhal
dim narwhal
dim narwhal
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I'll start my own list. I think the BG point difference is a big mistake, especially considering I heard about it from Alexa. It should have been included as information on disk purchases or highlighted. The point difference on the BG should be shared in a list or something so people know what points they pulled..

I like the gold illustrations, but I think their potential is totally lost. I would have guessed they could be pulled. To make it more interesting, you could add three gold pulls throughout the wave for every illustration. That way, these wouldn't influence non-gold pulls, and the gold pulls would become insanely valuable—or go with what Filow suggests.

The wave has amazing new stuff in it; it's just that some of it is in the wrong place. With the collaboration, I think the TL was better for rare experiences, rare BGs, and holos. Those were one-of-a-kind, making the chase for them worthwhile. All the top players would want them, which would increase the value of the collaboration.

I used to check if those holos had already been pulled, and if they hadn't, I’d buy the next disk for that reason alone.

sonic swift
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I thought I'd write down a summary of points that were mentioned:

A number of things are good to have been mentioned, but likely will be fixed regardless of community input:

Improved aesthetics are an ongoing process with the latest Album seeing a much needed makeover.
Refresh times will likely increase with future updates as the implementation of the newest aesthetics should be improved upon.
The lower inflation of the next wave is set in stone, with now much fewer (roughly a quarter) d1sks to be given out from this wave's thresholds.
The rules around (leaderboard) point allocations should be abundantly clear for the upcoming wave.
Bugs on the site should be fixed (though they should be noted down and readily available to the team)

There are a number of positives:
Accurate price points, good aesthetic improvements, functional reward system, good looking Gold Cards, Opening packs is more engaging, and finally an enjoyable and accurate promo sale.

The points that are up for discussion are the following that I think can be put into separate groups:

QOL improvements:
A public profile to show off your most valuable assets
Mass re-sleeving as currently you have to un-sleeve Illuvitars manually
Notifications for Offers
Bulk Opening D1sks

Leaderboard upgrades:
Show the total prize pool for the wave specific Leaderboard
Leaderboard rewards revision
Look at the wave specific leaderboard and its effect to determine whether the current system is viable.

Unique card rewards and functionalities:
Repeating Stretch Goals - multiaccounting
Gold Cards and their uses
Promo Cards and their uses
Lynx cards and their uses

sonic swift
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I Agree that QOL improvements and Leaderboard upgrades are good to implement. The team should be able to judge which points they are able to introduce and the community can push forward the improvements they prefer most. They are nice features to have but Beyond is working alright without them.

The unique card rewards and functionalities is something that could warrant more in depth discussion. It concerns the current stretch goals, the Gold and Promo Cards, as well as the previously obtained Lynx cards. Changing the use case of these cards could be beneficial to the overall feel of pulling the Illuvitars, but could also reduce the value of the previously obtained cards.
Lynxes are generally very powerful with their rare expression ranging from 1600 to easily 2400 power. With 31 of them and thereby being the most abundant Illuvitar line, adding all expressions would inevitably nerf all other Illuvitars. Maybe this could be balanced out with the collection reward points, but this would require a major rebalancing of all collection reward allocations.

I agree with the above that the gold cards are (too) strong. The Gold Pho with ~7600 power is a massive exaggeration and leaves most pho's to be undesirable. Barely any Pho's are as strong, so there is no need to obtain them as the golden pho would be sleeved in all general pho slots.

My proposed solution:
Limit the use of all gold and promo cards to only their specific collection and a background collection. This will allow the team to go off the rails for any point allocations to the Promo or Gold Illuvitars, without affecting the "regular" illuvitars.
Adding backgrounds to gold Illuvitars would also allow us to make the threshold rewards more interesting. There would be variety in your threshold pull, and thereby more of an incentive to aim for that 1500 point mark if you are at 1350.

This idea was based on Kieran streaming on the first day of the Alpha Sale and him mentioning how: "These gold Illuvitars do not have a background variation!? that's a major missed opportunity!"

Imo, if we add gold backgrounds we could allow for stretch goals to repeat without heavily affecting the rewards. People may aim for the gold Illuvitars simply so they can pull that Stage 3 background Gold Pho or whatever.

royal dagger
# sonic swift I Agree that QOL improvements and Leaderboard upgrades are good to implement. Th...

I think you are misjudging the effect of the extended lynx album. A lynx only goes into 5 slots, while many others go into 7, 8 or even 9 slots, accumulating more points per illuvial. Even with the addition of the remaining 2 expressions, we only add 2 slots per type of lynx, as the 2 new expressions will inevitably be weaker than the expression going into 5 slots. That's not a big point difference, but we finally get the deserved justice for the 2 missing expressions.

slender scroll
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IMO if we want to give gold illuvitars as stretch goals then we should create a specific gold collection for them, being the only place they could be sleeved, this would fix their disproportionate power and wouldn't creep their illuvitar counterpart.

sonic swift
sonic swift
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currently there are no backgrounds, but they would be a good addition, as we now see a quick inflation of any Gold illuvitar down to 20$ since there are close to 70 similar illuvitars printed.

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If we do the same for promo collections, the team can then also be more expressive and unique in their promo / art applications.

slender scroll
sonic swift
slender scroll
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ah yes, I would like that too.

slender scroll
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I think we need even more goals for high point thresholds. Maybe the gold background variations could help there.

sonic swift
sonic swift
slender scroll
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I don't think repeating is really that much appealing. You already have the free mega d1sks repeating.

native yacht
native yacht
sonic swift
native yacht
sonic swift
slender scroll
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you can also see it in the my progress page

image.png
native yacht
# sonic swift launch party for one

No way, I never noticed that. From the way that people were talking I thought it had already been established that those were not a great idea. Now we are in for the same inflation for wave 4 😩 .
Unless we get some renewed demand, we're just going to keep driving prices further down. If that's the goal great, but if not 😬 .

sonic swift
native yacht
sonic swift
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how do we know anything!

native yacht
native yacht
# sonic swift how do we know anything!

Heheh true. Like you say though, at least there will be a lot less this time.
Would be good to see how effective they are, even a survey of buyers to see how much impact they have on their decision making.
For me it was zero as I didn't even know they existed 😂 .

sonic swift
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probably a conversation to be had between marketing team and Esports team and beyond ideators tho

  • general survey like you said
native yacht
sonic swift
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I would have liked to see higher value watches xD that's all
other than that, inflation messed with a lot of things here, so i didn't participate a lot in the sale.

native yacht
sonic swift
# native yacht I would have liked that too. Instead of getting 50 regular watches, just 1 absol...

Yeah... I don't think that I would have bought 1000 promod1sks tbh but after 50 d1sks getting one worth maybe 250$ would have been dope. I don't do the expenses tho so idk what percentage cut you would have to give on the 1750$ costs from the buyer. But Beyond is quite a niche high end product. Heck 20 d1sks cost 700$. Giving the people a 50$ watch is catering to the wrong audience.

Not saying we shouldn't cater to a wide audience including the people who would only buy 20 d1sks, but Beyond is quite a whales game so I was expecting the team to cater to them primarily.

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maybe some day when the community has a bigger size? 👀

royal dagger
sonic swift
royal dagger
# sonic swift I just explained that it may be seen as unfair if the T2's as one of the tiers i...

Unfair for who? Leaving out illuvitar expressions based on math seems like a random idea, like why is math even a consideration here? We are collecting and as a collector I want all the illuvitars represented equally in the album, with their 3 expressions.

Since the game designer designed 31 lynxes in the game, that is how many we have. We have artists who worked on all 3 expressions and 2 out of those are now just sitting on accounts, sadly. I just want the equal representation for each illuvial, which is currently missing for the lynxes, that's all. This is my preference, anyway, others might have a different preference.

slender scroll
sonic swift
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not saying it's a problem, i'm explaining the current balance per tier, and that it would upset that balance. That could be a reason not to do it

slender scroll
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so what's the % of other tiers?

sonic swift
slender scroll
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but you think it's balanced?

sonic swift
slender scroll
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hmmm ok. Also lynxes only have 1x stage 1 and 5x stage 2's

frigid saddle
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justice for lynxes

rapid kindle
native yacht
frigid saddle
frigid saddle
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Do we know if the extra lynx expressions are coming this wave? @native vessel

native vessel
frigid saddle
slender scroll
slender scroll
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nvm what I said, points are showing up now, it's just the wave 3 leaderboard refresh rate that is utterly slow.

royal dagger
slender scroll
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I would like to see the promo illuvitars power standardized for all new and previous promos. Makes no sense IMO that the GS and TL promos give so little power compared to the G-Shock promos.

We shouldn't be introducing power creep just for the sake of trying to sell more of the new shiny thing, while devaluing older assets.

native yacht
slender scroll
native vessel
jovial sonnet
tame forge
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its not so much an experience thing. but id like a tag or graphic that indicates the background tier and stage. we have it for the illuvial but not the background and I dont know what each of them are. so similar to the alpha badge a T2S2 would be nice or a visual representation like a single number for the tier but its color represents the stage

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actually this just came to me. what if the backgrounds were also available in holo. maybe a set 1 grand finally set

native yacht
# tame forge its not so much an experience thing. but id like a tag or graphic that indicates...

I could have sworn that there used to be a graphic on the illuvidex that let you know the tier and stage of the background.
Doesn't appear to be there now.
I do agree that this would be a good feature as it would be difficult for anyone new to determine how rare their background is.
I do like the idea of holo backgrounds as I do love the look of the Obereum background as it has a holo look.
Any new backgrounds would have to wait for set 2 though.

sonic swift
undone vine
hollow valley
undone vine
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there it is!

native yacht
jovial sonnet
# hollow valley

I get this image is important, but almost everyone in the community has accepted this nomenclature:

T # S #

This is visibly clear to everyone what you're looking at, obviously not the most "artsy" but do you need an image showing the background? The title of "BACKGROUND" says it all 😀

Just my two-cents