Izero Scan and Research cost too low

[verbal flame]

Hello. Recently I realized that research and scan costs in IZero have been reduced to 3 per each fuel. I think that this cost is too low considering that first, we have a problem with high fuel offert and second, it is going to decrease the value of skins in the market.
I think it was good with 18 cost per each fuel.

[wet roost]

I report it yesterday... Nowhere any info about this discount
Again destroying of investicion old players... I have 50 blueprints make for price from 5/5/5 to 24/24/24 according to a Tier/Stage od Illuvial. x nr. of "try" and x "nr of lands = LOST of 10K / 10K / 10K fuel :-))

Very good idea make this discount... on the market is very low quantity of fuel 🙂

[soft flax]

The scan and research costs are now a function of the tier plot per the production boost for each tier, same for minting

This was noted on the patch notes as tier dependent costs but could be elaborated

Ergo 3, 4, 6, 12 each for tiers 1, 2, 3, 4

They were equalized across tiers of scanner/material lab given it lead to a weird meta where you paid much more just to unlock a small chance of higher tiers

This was done to give lower tier plots a fairer chance of specializing in the scan/research/mint loop while still keeping an advantage for higher tier plots due to their site count being higher

Given the addition of mint cost in the entire new loop to obtain a blueprint combined with the having to remint each time, I think it outscales the old price by a decent amount

Also as a T4 land holder, but also looking at data for other T4 land holders AND disregarding the "new" mint loop, both 12 and 18 are a drop in a bucket compared to total output at max progression so the relative change isnt very impactful

We do have a problem with high fuel supply versus demand as you state, but that's only very fractionally a part of the cost of scan/research/mint and low tier land holders deserve some love on this progression track in our view ♥️

[verbal flame]

I got it. But it is still too low. I put and example. I have a tier 2 land. I farm 150 fuel per day and I had 1 scanner and 2 researchers. I spent 18x3x3 = 162 of fuel with 10% for getting a skin. It means that I farmed 1 skins each 10 days. 3 per month.

Now it cost 12 of fuel to get a skin. 4.5 times less. It means that I can get 4.5 skins each 10 days. 15 skins per month. 15 skins!

we are passing from 3 to 15. What I am going to do with 15 skins?

[verbal flame]

Izero Scan and Research cost too low

[wet roost]

Next economy disaster.

I had on T2 land 2 skener and 5 research labs ... I spent all produced fuel each day.
Now I have 100 fuel overproduction (include 2x minting start in ZPT every day) ... which will go to a market where there is a "fuel shortage" 🙂

On T3 land 2x scaner + 5x research lab too... I had oveproduction about 250 fuel / day. Now I have overproduction 550 / day. Include 2x minting start in 14 ZPT buildings (and build more now every day)

As a matter of fact, I would like to know which alleged "economic expert the ILV team hired" processed and approved this.

And as a bonus, we'll stop OW, but zero with now increased fuel production again (megacity bonuses + lower price of science)... but we'll keep Zero and Arena running. That's economics, man. 🤦‍♂️
https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1320369685883260989

[verbal flame]

Another problem. I have just noticed that I can build just 5 researcher and 5 scanner, it means that I can spend (4+4+4)x(5+5) = 120 fuel crafting skins. What I have to do with the 30 remaining?

[wet roost]

Sell or minting 🙂

[verbal flame]

Sell to continue decreasing cost fuel?

[verbal flame]

What do you mean with minting?

[ancient warren]

Must be referring to minting your blueprints in the zero point transducer

[wet roost]

Yes, fuel have "nice price" at market 🙂
Yes, I mean minting blueprints, which you made by scan + res.laboratory.

[verbal flame]

Okey, I didn't know about that function, but still, it is not enough. For minting you spend 33 of fuel per 168h (7d). So, if you have 5 researcher, you can get 1 skins each 4 days, 2 each ≈ 7 days, and minting that 2 skins will cost 66 of fuel. Spend 66 in 7 days is equal to spend 9,42 each day, so there are still 21,58 that I can't use.

[ancient warren]

Well you can always send what's leftover to your passport and use it in the OW

[verbal flame]

Men... that's the problem. Fuel not used in Zero is fuel that goes to OW. The more fuel in OW, the lower price it get. So, apart that increase the amount of skins, decrease the cost of the fuel. Anything of this change makes sense.

[verbal flame]

It is funny that some people are disagree with my opinion but don't say anything that defend their position or how it benefits the game.

[wet roost]

I agree with the opinion that it was nonsense to discount Research and Scans. I was even the first to criticize it and report it as a BUG (because the change was not in the announcement or news) about 30 minutes after the patch.
Admins are not listening and they say they have a very expensive economist specialist in game economics (mods wrote about this a few months ago).

You can have as many transducers as you want. So you can mint unlimitedly. Moreover, Minting T5S3 is much more expensive than you state here 🙂

It's also bad that the blueprint remains in ZERO after minting and it is possible to mint the same one indefinitely. So after scanning and researching something very interesting, there is no reason to scan and research further. Which means you don't spent fuel again 😦

[soft flax]

The change was made to give low Tier plots a chance at the Scan/Research/Mint track, plot dependent costs were added to smoothen out the benefit over the different plot tiers

[brisk valve]

it was mentioned in the patchnotes

[wet roost]

Tier 3 isnt low tier LAND... And I had discount 85% from latest patch... economically indefensible

[wet roost]

edited After my report 🙂

[soft flax]

Agreed on the scanning part, the "scan them all" should have been much harder, but I didnt have time/priority to intervene before release and now there's "no way back", my mistake
Probably for a different reason than most people think, I've seen no mention of people grokking the underlying system and its major flaw

Disagree on the research part, there's lots and lots of interesting stuff, finding one doesn't stop one from researching

[soft flax]

We've removed the scaling of the activity cost as you go up with building stage, as it lead to weird niches in gameplay and there's no "degrade" functionality

Agreed that it's "economically indefensible", but I don't agree thats on Zero, but on the system itself

[wet roost]

"no way back" - LOL :))
you play to switch off (temporally of course) OW... and in zero is no way back... You can make update this/next week, to "usable" mint blueprint for example 3x or 5x ... Ano problem solved 🙂

Now is minted very small quantity of skins/blueprints... you can make this change... and witch change of pricing on Zero lands a little back up... but better is make it earlier not later...

[wet roost]

Yes, 3 months is nothing... no battle pass, no daily missions... nothing for players. This week play OW last 1 player from our clan 😦 ... from cca 23 daily active and 30 weekly active players ... 😦
As I know, HYPE is in same situation, almost no one play 😦

[soft flax]

I was talking about scanning only and the quotation marks were there for a reason

[wet roost]

Google isnt good with translations of irony 🙂

[verbal flame]

I appreciate your honest opinions.

Yes. I think the problem is the system itself too, but we should make changes for improving little parts that allows us fix it, not the opposite. I understand that there are changes with long term expectations, but, short term is important too. And more than make changes, it is most important to know the reason behind them. Changes like this only produces uncertainty and call into question the DAO's ability to lead the project.

Hope that by now it doesn't cause many problems.