Another suggestion for a burn mechanism

[visual sedge]

A player can increase the stats of Holos and dark holos with the same kind of Illuvial. On top of that to distinct between holos and dark holos I would suggest a diminishing return mechanism, which gives an advantage to dark holos over holos.

upgrading gets more expensive the better the Illuvial is:

dark holos:

290 --> 300 needs 15 Illuvials of the same kind (normal finish or better)
280 --> 290 needs 14 Illuvials
270 --> 280 needs 13 Illuvials
260 --> 270 needs 12
250 --> 260 needs 11
240 --> 250 needs 10
230 --> 240 needs 9
220 --> 230 needs 8
210 --> 220 needs 7
200 --> 210 needs 6
190 --> 200 needs 5
180 --> 190 needs 4
170 --> 180 needs 3
160 --> 170 And all below needs 2

holos:

290 --> 300 needs 20 Illuvials of the same kind (normal finish or better)
280 --> 290 needs 19 Illuvials
270 --> 280 needs 18 Illuvials
260 --> 270 needs 17
250 --> 260 needs 16
240 --> 250 needs 15
230 --> 240 needs 14
220 --> 230 needs 13
210 --> 220 needs 12
200 --> 210 needs 11
190 --> 200 needs 10
180 --> 190 needs 5
170 --> 180 needs 3
160 --> 170 And all below needs 2

Numbers can ofc. get changed, but with that we would get utility for holos/dark holos and we could see them in Leviathan. I guess people would be happy to find a holo/dark holo with a mechanism like this and normal good stat Illuvials would still keep a lot of their value, because upgrading a holo is a lot of work. This should work decently with the planned pack opening mechanism as well.

We could even create lore around this that gives a reason why holos/dark holos are able to absorb other Illuvials.

[patent drum]

I am usually dead set against any kind of mechanism that can improve stats, but I have to say this is the most convincing one I have seen to date.

I'm not sure making it easier to build stats on dark holos over regular holos is the way to go though, as this would make high stat dark holos less rare over time in comparison to holos. If anything I believe it should be the other way around, or at a minimum at least the same.

[lucid karma]

I like that this would give some sort of attachment to holo/dark holo illuvials, but at the same time this devalues all the current good stat illuvials. It's a tough one really.

[visual sedge]

well, we could still adjust the numbers, but I think the request to own a holo and find like 80 Illuvials of the same kind to get it to 250+ is already pretty much to keep the value of current good stat Illuvials.
Owning a holo T5S2 is already rare and now you would need a lot bad normal T5S2 Illuvials of the same kind. Maybe the numbers I offered are even too extreme...

Another suggestion for a burn mechanism

[snow sigil]

keep in mind that 300 is the theoretical max, but really everyone feels movement speed is negligible...
so practically 250 is max depending on what stat pattern you started.

[lucid karma]

you say the numbers are too extreme. We have over half a million T1+ illuvials. I would say those numbers are a nothing burger and every current player would be running around with perfect stats.

[snow sigil]

https://tenor.com/view/its-a-ver-strong-maybe-bohdi-tulsa-king-s1e9-its-very-likely-gif-27419032

[fair solar]

I don't think upgrade stats in the issue i think there is a core design concern around F2P Gauntlet ----> levithan Gauntlet that is m issed and can't be overcome. Working on a writeup but theres a lot that goes into it. I don't think touching stats is the right method i think touching f2p gauntlet is the better method to add utility. Although i do think a burn mechanism for trash illuvials is needed. Proably XP

[wet thunder]

We can include another element as a limit so it's not to devalue other high stat illuvials too much. For example a Leviathan essence which is earned upon leaderboard placement in Leviathan in a season. Ontop of the requirements mentioned in the OP, it also takes 3 LE to improve a stat.

Ranking in Gold - 1 essence
Ranking in Plat - 2 essences
Ranking in Dia - 3 essences

That way if we ever reach 100k players in Leviathan for example:

• that would create demand for 20 mil illuvials
• since only Gold and higher players are eligible, around 50-100k essences will be minted per season (3 months)
• this will enable for only around 33k illuvials to be 'upgradable' per 3 months, which compared to the whole pool of players/illuvials, will be somewhat reasonable
• it will also create more incentive to compete in Levi, as those essences will be nfts and whales will probably be after it

Gold+ Levi will also be unbottable and hard to multi account, so I feel it's a good idea to include different gameplay rewards into it.

[lucid karma]

I like this better 👍

[visual sedge]

Ok, lets see.

In regards of the response from @snow sigil | Illuvimod I would like to add that this mechanism would be random (I guess). So, yes, we don't need mov. speed, but it is likely that you get it nevertheless.

Illuvial distribution (only none holo):
T1S1: 114315
T1S2: 71078
T1S3: 24067

T3S1: 56915
T3S2: 30406
T3S3: 8860

T4S1: 50274
T4S2: 17264
T4S3: 3311

T5S1: 27654
T5S2: 6993
T5S3: 1279

Illuvial distribution (holo and dh):
T1S1: 52171
T1S2: 11526
T1S3: 1895

T3S1: 15712
T3S2: 4215
T3S3: 757

T4S1: 6521
T4S2: 1578
T4S3: 300

T5S1: 1592
T5S2: 362
T5S3: 78

Assumptions:

• Holos have an average stat of 150
• It is pretty likely that people want to go near 300, because in most cases you will get unlucky and have a 5/5 movement stat. So lets say on average the equivalent of the Illuvials for a boost up to 290 are needed
• People don't want to sacrifice good stat Illuvials, because they still do the job in the arena.
• Since most of the people around are catching only good stat Illuvials I would assume that only 50% of the current supply will make a good sacrifice.

From 150 to 290 you need 106 Illuvials in my dark holo example and 157 Illuvials in my holo example.

We have 7417 vermillias on the market. Lets say 3700 are so bad that you want to sacrifice them. That means we would get 34.9 (dh example) or 23.6 (holo example) perfect stat vermillias out of this. With fusion this translates to 2.9 or 2.0 perfect vermilliare on top of the currently existing.

Verminio = 3973 on market. Around 2000 for sacrifice. We get 18.87 or 12.74 perfect verminios out of them. Which translates to 6.29 or 4.25 perfect vermilliare.

So, with the current market we would get around 9 (dh example) or 6 (holo example) perfect vermilliare on top of the existing ones. The 6 are more realistic, because nearly nobody has a dh. Also you have to invest a lot of work into leveling them up and the Illuvials have to be in the hand of one user.

In regards of pack opening:
Lets say you get three T3S1 out of a pack on average. You wan't to use 1.5 for fusion gamble and 1.5 of them for Sacrifice. We have 8 different T3 Illuvials
So, you get 1.5/8 = 0.1875 of the one Illuvial you need to upgrade the holo of your choice (which is only a stage 1 tier 3) per pack.
You need 565,33 (dh) or 837,33 (holo example) packs to get enough sacrifices.
Ofc. you can now go ahead on the market and trade the one for the other, but in the end I think this is healthy for the overall market,
because good stat Illuvials would be still super hard to get and therefore super expensive, but at the same time you get more people into trying out Leviathan and provide utility to Holos/dark holos.
My guess with numbers like this would be that a perfect stat Illuvial which is at the moment worth around 100$ loses some value and is worth 80$ in the future.

[visual sedge]

I like this idea that people have to play the game to increase stats. Sounds good to me. I think we should hand out more essences per season, because being able to upgrade only one Illuvial by one stat per season sounds too slow. Especially, because the other requirements are quite the hurdle by themselves as described in my last post.

[lucid karma]

should you be doing calculations with only the illuvials in the market? Just because they're not currently listed doesn't mean they won't be in the future. The total supply is huge.

[visual sedge]

used all of them

[lucid karma]

the number won't even be that big then, since there's tons of burnt illuvials that still show up in the illuvidex.

[visual sedge]

yeah, thought the same, but I wasn't sure if they are registered in the counter in the corner or if they are only shown.

[wet thunder]

The numbers such as those you suggested in the OP and the number of essences needed/earned through Levi can be adjusted of course. But I think it should remain as a rather exclusive, highly sought after feature that the top players are after.

If the demand for these essences is far greater than the supply, it will reflect on their price in the dex. This will further stimulate people to run Levi, if not even the main reward is worth the efforts. Add enough of those type of rewards, and you don't even need to include the governance token in it's rewards structure, eventually in-game items can take over.

[patent drum]

We have 7417 vermillias on the market. Lets say 3700 are so bad that you want to sacrifice them. That means we would get 34.9 (dh example) or 23.6 (holo example) perfect stat vermillias out of this. With fusion this translates to 2.9 or 2.0 perfect vermilliare on top of the currently existing.

Can you explain why you think it is a good idea to create a much higher population of perfect dark holos than holos?

Based on these stats, producing almost 60 perfect dh/holo Vermillias is quite a scary prospect. It may seem a small number but it's actually incredibly large compared to the overall population of Vermillias.
Considering the fact that we have around 290 perfect stat illuvials total right now, your example would give us around 1/5 of this in holo and dark holo alone (of just 1 single stage illuvial), not even factoring in how many colour variants there would be.

After reading every proposal for a stat increase i'm still dead set against them. We need to leave them alone, any mis step and its potentially game killing.
You want better stats, buy it off the market, open some more packs, or level it up.

[visual sedge]

It seems you misunderstood my calculation?

you can't just add the numbers 34.9 and 23.6 up to around 60.
These numbers refer to a scenario in which all existing color Vermillas are used in either one of the scenarios. If all Illuvials holos and dark holos are upgraded based on the dark holo curve in my initial post you get 34.9 perfect Vermillias if one player owns all of the existing vermillias.
In the other scenario with the Holo curve in my first post you would get 23.6 perfect Vermilliars out of the complete supply.

We have 16 dh vermillias in existence, so that would limit the amount of perfect dh vermillias. Together they are a slightly more than a single perfect vermilliare.

Also I don't understand the sentence "not even factoring in how many colour variants there would be.", because you can't upgrade them?

My thought was that dh should have an advantage over holos.

I still don't think that it would be likely to get perfect stats together with this system and we would see dh and holos in Leviathan more often.
The "open some more packs" part will get insane. It will be so extremely unlikely to get perfect stat Illuvials that this mechanism would only even that out a little.
With pack opening and this burn mechanism it still sounds less likely to get good stats than it is in the current OW.
But if this scenario isn't extreme enough we could just change the numbers.
Let dhs start at 50 Illuvials for 290--> 300 and we won't see them in Leviathan.

To get to the levels of your rhamphyre you would need one average dh rhamphyre and around 100 rhamphyres. This is still not an easy task considering there are only 324 rhamphyres.