#ICCP-XX Illuvium Beyond Wave 3 and Future Waves: USD Peg for Pricing

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karmic moon
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ICCP-XX Illuvium Beyond Wave 3 and Future Waves: USD Peg for Pricing

Simple Summary

This proposal adjusts the pricing mechanics for Illuvium Beyond Wave 3 and all subsequent waves by pegging D1SK prices directly to USD. This ensures stable and predictable pricing for players. Any future adjustments to this system will require a separate ICCP.

Abstract

To enhance pricing consistency and accessibility, this proposal introduces a direct USD peg for D1SK pricing starting from Wave 3. The ETH equivalent for each D1SK type will be dynamically calculated at the time of purchase using a real-time price oracle. The pricing structure, including ratios and product tiers, remains unchanged.

Overview

Beginning with Wave 3, all D1SK prices will be pegged to USD to provide stable pricing regardless of ETH market fluctuations. This approach ensures players have a predictable and straightforward purchasing experience. The pricing will be as follows:

  • Standard D1SK: $5.99
  • Mega D1SK: $35.94
  • Alpha Standard D1SK: $11.99
  • Alpha Mega D1SK: $107.91
    The ETH equivalent will be calculated in real-time at the point of purchase. This adjustment will remain in effect for future waves unless revised by a subsequent ICCP.

Sale Mechanics Adjustments

USD Peg for Pricing

Prices for all D1SKS are fixed to USD values as detailed above.
Real-time ETH conversions will be performed at the time of purchase using a reliable price oracle.

Applicability to Future Waves

This USD peg pricing model will apply to Wave 3 and all subsequent waves unless explicitly modified by a new ICCP.

Rationale

Pegging D1SK prices to USD ensures pricing stability, enhances player confidence, and aligns with broader accessibility goals for Illuvium Beyond. By eliminating the impact of ETH price fluctuations, this system simplifies the purchase process and creates a more inclusive experience for the community.

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The reason this has come up so close to the beyond sale is because the functionality was just implemented as of late and ensured that it could be done in time for Wave 3 if this ICCP passes.

agile torrent
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Give the people what they want! Long live @karmic moon
👑 👍

chrome python
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change title from IIP-XX to ICCP-XX :]

karmic moon
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ICCP-XX Illuvium Beyond Wave 3 and Future Waves: USD Peg for Pricing

still flume
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I know this is the same as wave 2 but why is the alpha standard d1sk 2x the standard price and the alpha mega d1sk 3x the normal mega price? Is there any logic to it?

And about the pricing why these values and not lower? We agreed to lower prices for wave 2, now we're increasing them again?

chrome python
agile torrent
calm briar
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Pricing in fuel completely off the table for beyond?

still flume
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ok and why not:

  • Standard D1SK: $4.99
  • Mega D1SK: $29.99
  • Alpha Standard D1SK: $9.98
  • Alpha Mega D1SK: $89.97
    ?
karmic moon
agile torrent
karmic moon
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so thats what we did just pegged to usd

calm briar
karmic moon
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We will need an ICCP either way to switch to fuel

olive egret
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i think next wavwe will be on the fuel?

calm briar
still flume
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why did we increase it again?

karmic moon
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this is what we based it off

chrome python
# still flume I'm sorry but it's not a different topic. The pricing was set in ETH and it was ...

You must be referring to an old post by Blickter in the feedback ideas thread. He started that off with 5/30$:
#1130940550149853184 message

This was changed to be slightly higher in a following message by Missionpoole representing the marketing subcouncil here:
#1130940550149853184 message

from there on, 6$ / 36$ and 2x-3x for Alphas was the official price mentioned on snapshot and concurrently used during wave 2.

still flume
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I just hope this wave is a success. If we sell even less than what we did in wave 2 maybe it's time to rethink this.

agile torrent
still flume
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" A price decrease to the proposed $5/$30 would have been fine without drop rates increasing, but we believe strongly that the increased odds leads to a more enjoyable opening & collecting experience, therefore we recommend balancing the two by modestly increasing price to $6/$36 "

This is just BS. Like if the market cared for this anyway.

Blickter suggestion was spot on. But you guys like to make everything on the expensive side. Don't get surprised if you don't sell much.

keep in mind that if wave 3 ends up selling less than previous waves we're just devaluing previous waves even further.

chrome python
still flume
agile torrent
tranquil fable
still flume
# karmic moon

this is a classic example of how the theory doesn't match the practice. We set these prices, but then when the wave launched ETH tanked and prices got cheaper.

Instead of now taking this opportunity to fix prices to a more appealing price like we asked for wave 2 we increase their price back again. Cause I still remember the discussions we had and we didn't lower prices further mainly to not have a such big price difference from wave 1, but in the end ETH did it for us.

still flume
karmic moon
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Yeah I agree we could do lower prices, I'm just saying that when Rogiers IIP was passed it said in their maintain the price structure of Wave 2, so I just wish we could've brought it up then instead of trying to sort drop rates and pricing a week before launch.

still flume
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right... We've been talking in fixing d1sk prices for a while now... But cause the IIP only comes one week before launch it's our fault now.

karmic moon
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Like i said it was in the previous IIP to keep the pricing

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It couldve been a proposal any time after that

still flume
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yes and with that logic to keep the pricing in ETH it would be 50$ mega d1sks.

karmic moon
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it said as close to 6$ equivalent

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the USD equivalent would've lowered it anyway

tranquil fable
still flume
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why not take this opportunity since this is the ICCP to fix prices to change it to a more decent price like 4.99$?

karmic moon
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Im not blaming anyone, just saying it def couldve been brought up earlier.

still flume
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2 months ago

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and I've talked about this even further I just need to search

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but I've said my piece, you guys do what you think it's best,

karmic moon
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Im asking questions now, but we can still pass this and have another iccp for prices, <@&814435151307866142> could even do an Emergency IIP cause it could "financially harm the DAO" if we think pricing could make a significant difference

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and that new pricing would be pegged to usd already because of this

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or imc could do revisions

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and we change pricing there

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thats probably an even easier route

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@livid current you reading the room?

karmic moon
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@still flume I'll just write a new ICCP, add the pricing change to it. Discussing with @orchid grotto now and will talk to Kieran before even putting this one to vote.

orchid grotto
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im in favour of lowering pricing btw - I think the more d1sks can pop the better it is for everyone really.

mild current
balmy terrace
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USD peg is a good thing, there was never any benefit to d1sk buyers to having these prices fluctuate in bull/bear markets. Hoping this can get passed and pricing can move to a separate topic.

If we need an emergency proposal to adjust pricing, I hope there is good data to back up the changes, because that conversation shouldn't need to be an emergency.

I suspect lower pricing will be better overall, but my gut feeling is a lot different than data that indicates overall sales will be higher as a result of a price reduction. It's probably better to get another sale at the current price point so that we can identify whether there's an overall trend in how many disks people are buying, and isolate that trend from changes due to price differences between Waves.

In addition, adjusting odds against to compensate for changes in pricing IS extremely complicated. Potential to add value to or devalue existing assets by making comparable assets more or less expensive to obtain is slippery territory.

God speed and good luck if we're gonna try and tackle all 3 of those (peg, pricing, odds) in a single proposal before Wave 3.

still flume
balmy terrace
still flume
balmy terrace
# still flume I think the main discussion here is around price. If we want to change odds then...

Sure, I just remember getting ANY proposal across the line for Wave 2 being a major pain. Every extra thing that gets adjusted gives people one more axis to disagree about.

Obviously I'm for pricing around the $5 price point (wouldn't have brought it forward last wave if I thought otherwise), but we do have a whole additional Wave worth of data I haven't seen since we made the adjustment for Wave 2 pricing/odds, and I'd hope that a pricing change would be informed by data. The reality is that sorting through that data takes time which we might not have.

still flume
# balmy terrace Sure, I just remember getting ANY proposal across the line for Wave 2 being a ma...

what data would you find relevant to know? Number of d1sks bought?
It was preeetty scuffed especially the mega d1sks, but that was mostly due to the disproportionate individual stretched goals.
I think there's data and there's also the community sentiment. And the sentiment seems pretty clear, just go to the Beyond channel or talk to other Beyonders. We don't need to be pricing things higher. I don't see what we have to gain by it.

balmy terrace
# still flume what data would you find relevant to know? Number of d1sks bought? It was preee...

Well potentially more revenue for the DAO. That's the main thing we could have to gain by setting higher price points.

Part of the issue as well is that if multiple variables change every Wave, it's more difficult to identify trends. We haven't had consecutive Waves with the same price point, which essentially leaves us with data that (oversimplified) looks like the graph below. Where is the graph trending?

Some metrics I think are relevant are total # of wallets involved in the sale (yes, this can be skewed by stretch goals), #'s of each d1sk type sold, how many wallets purchased each type of d1sk at their respective price points, expected cost to complete a collection (rudimentary upper bound on maximum spend by a player who isn't top 10), etc.

Traditional companies don't optimize revenue by listening to prevailing sentiments about their products, they look at sales data, and I see no reason why we wouldn't do the same.

Again though, this can get complicated to evaluate and make an informed decision, which is why I'd prefer for the peg to go through standalone, and pricing and/or odds to be a separate discussion.

image.png
still flume
balmy terrace
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Could do, but it would be informed by gut feeling (and you could make the argument that it's informed by decades of market research by other gaming companies who typically price their cheapest product at or under $5 - This was the main argument I had for the price point in Wave 2) instead of by data from our sales.

chrome python
still flume
still flume
chrome python
tranquil fable
# balmy terrace Well potentially more revenue for the DAO. That's the main thing we could have t...

Well said. Can't really argue with your reasoning.
Although I do agree with Filow regarding pricing, it is more based on the feels and sentiment, not hard data.
I think sticking with these price points for another wave would be a wise move.
We are literally days away from launching now and based on the pricing discussions last wave, I really don't think we even have the time for that again now 😅

agile torrent
steady wing
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in favour of USD peg for pricing, if feasible technically

still flume
# agile torrent Would not have time for it... But without two points of data to reference, it'...

I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with gut feeling. I've presented a couple of facts by now.

  • Start of wave 2, ETH price = 1800$
    Standard D1sk = 0.00301 ETH = 5.42$
    Mega D1sks = 0.01801 ETH = 32,42$

We're starting this wave with d1sks more expensive than in wave 2 even after all the discussions to lower prices in wave 2. And a 4.99$, 29.99$ is much more appealing marketing wise. Where is that a gut feeling?

agile torrent
# still flume I'm sorry but this has nothing to do with gut feeling. I've presented a couple o...

There's no evidence to support the price reduction, except gut feelings to have prices lower = sell more

Not arguing the price points, just saying no hard data that I have seen to support it

Start of the Wave = more people likely to buy with their budget
If prices went up, did people stop buying?
If prices went down, did more people buy?

Just so you know, I heavily advocated for reducing prices for wave 2 during epoch 8 - so I am not disagreeing that lower prices could be better

But I agree with Blickter that having 2 sets of data (back to back waves) could be more beneficial than reducing pring for wave 3

still flume
steady wing
still flume
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I would say wave 2 was mostly dominated by d1sk dumpeners that were constantly opening and selling the d1sk contents to farm for the individual stretch goals.

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and thus why the disproportionate number of standard d1sks was sold.

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look guys I'm just pointing out the obvious, if you think this is the way so be it. Alpha mega d1sks at 108$. Pretty insane if you ask me. It'll be even worse if we can't manage to actually sell out this alpha sale with such a low available supply.

steady wing
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All this chat happened while I was asleep so I haven't read back through it yet

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But the intent from my memory was always a $6 standard. I don't see a need to change it

livid current
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btw thx so much rich for writing this so quickly

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i prefer this psychological pricing of 5 bucks

bright pike
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No brainer proposal. Having it pegged was the way to go and now that its possible to do so. No reason not to do it this way prospectively for future waves.

As for pricing, this couldve been raised before. Weve had a lot of discussion on this before wave 2 and now that wave 2 has come and gone, pricing couldve been brought up for wave 3 even after the proposal of Rogier being discussed and passed. Theres a small window to change the pricing but it needs to be overwhelmingly convincing and positively supported to pass before Nov 21.

barren vector
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Let's say that this is correct.

That means that the price was below $5 for most of Wave 2.

The price was never $6, apart from month before while the proposal was being written and for like 5 last days before the end of the sale. But let's hear more about "buying was consistent throughout the entire thing".

image.png
chilly zephyr
barren vector
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The biggest problem with the Illuvium Beyond in my opinion is that it is a collection game where you can't collect all of them. I have zero desire in collecting more and buying more when I know I won't be even close to collecting everything.

Someone starting to collect now has no desire for buying old Illuvitars to collect everything as it's basically impossible to collect everything.

That is something we can't change now and something I guess we don't want to change any time. But hopefully soon we'll have reasons for collecting part of collections so that there is something you are collecting for.

Pricing was always the problem. Just remember the first proposal for Wave 1. And then we "fixed it" even though it was too high so we had to fix it again.

I'm still not sure we know what we want from Illuvium Beyond.

But, peg to usd is the right thing to do and it should be done. Everything else is not this proposal I guess.

livid current
barren vector
tranquil fable
chilly zephyr
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My mistake, I thought Dr Spoon was asking about having it priced in fuel. Shouldn't try to read in the morning before taking my caffeine pills.😂

calm briar
still flume
barren vector
still flume
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how can we expect that having higher prices once again and only having a wave duration of 3 months is going to be ok?? Does anyone care about wave rarity? About maintaining previous waves value? About some sort of balance for Beyond set 1?

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and since we're establishing USD prices, why don't we take this chance to define the promo d1sks price as well? If I'm not mistaken we priced the liquid d1sks at 40$.

tranquil fable
# still flume thanks <@191885098931585024> for bringing some data to us. Let's also keep in m...

Let's also keep in mind that wave 2 lasted nearly 6 months. And even with lower prices it only sold half of the wave 1 mega d1sks

What is this an argument in favour of?
From the face of it, it appears as though even though prices were lower for wave 2, this failed to generate additional interest/revenue, which seems like an argument against reducing prices further as we don't have any clear evidence to suggest that this would lead to a positive outcome.

I have stated numerous times in the past that the stretch goals seriously hampered mega disks sales during wave 2. I personally purchased much less than I otherwise would have should we have had a fair and balanced reward system and I know from talking to others competing on leaderboard, they felt the exact same way.

This is why pricing should be carefully considered as there is a lot of nuance within what drives the data, and it is still limted data at that. This should not be an issue that we only begin debating 5 days before launch.

If we keep the pricing the same, hopefully we have a fair reward system in place for stretch goals this wave and therefore less pollution of the sales data, which provide a much clearer perspective leading into wave 4.
That's where I stand anyway and I will leave it at that as I don't this this should be derailed into a pricing issue when it should be simply about the peg.

still flume
agile torrent
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It feels like this could be a repeat of the previous wave and with those NOICE rewards this wave, people may aim for rewards with the most cost-effective path

However, these points do require you to open them ("loaded") which is a plus (so Megas having better pulls technically offset this value)

Just wanted to point this out as it does tie into prices / d1sk

tranquil fable
# agile torrent I know a bunch of players brought standard d1sks due to the points for stretch g...

Those do look much better than wave 2, although i'm still not understanding why we can't just go the whole way and make them fair and balanced.
Why do these rewards have a bias towards rewarding people for spending less money on a product that is less addictive and partly still contributing to making people that are spending more money feel like they are receiving the short end of the stick?

The D1sks alone should be designed in a way that that is balanced and provide a value that is in alignment with their $ value (which I believe they are), which is why it is perplexing as to why there is this need to try and influence the market towards standard D1sks with the biased reward structure rather than via the product itself.

This seems way off topic now though, should we even be discussing this here?

agile torrent
wary steeple
# karmic moon ## ICCP-XX Illuvium Beyond Wave 3 and Future Waves: USD Peg for Pricing ### Simp...

Pricing should be what we originally proposed last wave that was agreed on by the community. Except with the price being pegged to USD. Meaning the below pricing:

Standard D1SK: $4.99
Mega D1SK: $29.99
Alpha Standard D1SK: $9.99
Mega Standard D1SK: $89.99

We should also change the rewards so they are aligned with mega and standard to not penalise mega disk buyers.

@fallen patio @orchid grotto

bright pike
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We can already include the mega standard point rewards so as not to have a separate proposal

bright pike
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Or if ICC hasnt voted on it then we still have time to update it 🙂

livid current
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fyi @still flume

still flume
still flume
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so following the other thread discussion alphas will have a 1.5x points multiplier?

barren vector
karmic moon
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wasnt done before the articvle

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but the IIP is ready

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Movved it here

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with new ICCP