Competitive Scene on December 1st

[wooden lintel]

Back in July, I tried to prevent Illuvium from launching without the demand side (Arena) through IIP-56, but it didn’t pass. Since then, I’ve made posts and pushed from all angles to stress how important it is to get the demand side up and running as soon as we can, but nothing has come of it

Launching with just the supply side has been devastating for Illuvium. The token and asset prices have dropped, we’ve lost players, and both investor and community trust have taken a huge hit

First, there were delays because the game wasn’t ready, with promises that it would be ready soon. Then, Season 3 was canceled and reworked to focus on the competitive scene (which was a smart move). We all thought the competitive scene would kick off on November 1, but with the Patch A/B thing and wanting to polish more, it got delayed again

Now, we’re looking at December 1, but with no updates two weeks out and all this talk about how amazing Gauntlet will be in early 2025 it’s hard not to worry about another delay

I get that Gauntlet is finally getting the focus it deserves and is improving fast, but waiting for a “perfect” game isn’t realistic. Gauntlet is in a solid state even with the missing features and bugs. The Illuvium ecosystem desperately needs its demand side

The community can’t handle another delay

👍 to launching the competitive scene on December 1st (the real Illuvium launch!)

[tough wigeon]

the problem is that the game is just ok if you launch the game as it is now it will not have much retention

[tropic river]

Good post Patate! At this point I don't want to put any more pressure with dates on the team. I would pause the OW for now so players are not flooding the market with even more illuvials at these ridiculously low prices. Let's restructure how fuel works, let's get the automated drone runs up and running and finish polishing the gauntlet arena to launch the competitive scene asap.

[tough wigeon]

yes stop the massacre with overworld stay focused only on arena🤝

[vivid bloom]

What´s the benefit for the DAO to start spending a lot on this?

Isn´t gauntlet still ways behind TFT, why would people wanna play for entertainment compared to competition (without a earning mindset) and even become spenders in the Illuvium ecosystem due to tournaments?

To Simplify, why would this encourage people to spend more, than they can make back?

[tough wigeon]

if the game is less good the only option is the money winnings to motivate🤑

[vivid bloom]

That´s what I am worried about, you motivate few people who make more than they have to spend, depending on how much more you get more skilled people from various games interested, but don´t incentive the normal guy who the DAO has to make money from.

[wooden lintel]

No need to start the marketing push now

I believe delaying once again will make way more players leave than launching the game

[floral isle]

Couldn’t agree more

[tropic river]

players are already leaving, if we don't hook them with a good experience it's over.

[wooden lintel]

Some make money back and most dont

In web3 our selling point is that its now possible for a higher % of people to compete and get a chance to touch some rewards compared to the 0.001% in web2

The simple incentives in arena would push people to play and build up their teams more and more

Without demand the supply keeps accumulating, all assets are going down more and more and investor/community confidence is dropping every day

In hearthstone people dont only buy better cards because they want to make their money back

[vivid bloom]

Your whole logic is around people play to get rewards though, why play if they go net negative?

Indeed people play and spend in e.g. Hearthstone because they have fun, not because they want to get rewards.

[wooden lintel]

Im close to many communites around illuvium and its really sad to see how the sentiment has gone down since the "launch". I feel that delaying once again the competitive scene would be the final drop in the glass of many

[tough wigeon]

let's stop comparing Blizzard games that are excellent to gauntlet...

[tropic river]

it already got delayed. Won't it be worse to release and the game not being actually good? After what we've been through I don't think forcing the team to commit to a date is a wise choice.

[wooden lintel]

Of course fun is the basic but here my point is that we cant afford to delay until its perfect because our ecosystem of games is built on an economy model where arena competitive scene is the only demand side

Even if our game has a smaller playerbase and is less fun then hearthstone generally speaking i think people will still spend without getting a positive roi

[tropic river]

After having played with the ranger on the arena, it shows there's still a lot of work to be done.

[wintry perch]

I think what we currently have (weekly tournaments) is not too bad. The main issue for me is we only see top 20 leaderboard. If you aren't close to top 20, you have no idea where you stand and doesn't feel too different than casual. We need a leaderboard that includes all players

[tough wigeon]

We have to accept that it is a failure now but there is a chance to succeed with a concentration of arena to make a real game by attracting new people into our ecosystem

in 6 months they will make a good game

[vivid bloom]

Why would people start spending for rewards, that they wouldn´t get?

You reward/keep prob less than 100 people who would benefit of this, not masses.

[obsidian idol]

sounds like a bad reward system

[tough wigeon]

you need a good game + reward$ =to succeed

[vivid bloom]

yeah obv, if you do it like the airdrop seasons, you have botting/farmer issues who leave after, if you do competitive option, you reward very few, who also prob leave once they don´t make money

It is thinking backwards, unless people are there who are happy to play and wanna compete/watch things for entertainment this is a waste of money, as the ones you theoreticly cater to don´t exist.

[wooden lintel]

Its not the certainty of getting rewards that incentivize people to spend but the mere possibility of getting them

People might start with a simple team and suck at the game but they will want to improve their team and dive into the ecosystem to get those rewards

[tough wigeon]

he is right people only play for the rewards it has become a punishment to play these games

[karmic plover]

web3 players don't care about the game as long as there are rewards

[obsidian idol]

you won't get botters/farmers that much if you reward stuff you can't immediatly swap for $ or not at all for $

[vivid bloom]

This still leads to the conclusion they wanna spend less than they make in rewards, if that is the reason to play for them.

[vivid bloom]

yeah, that´s why people see the space as ponzi shemes, which often times they are correct I guess

[tough wigeon]

who really enjoys playing illuvium? the only time i had fun was at the beginning when i wanted to create my team for ascendant it reminded me of the pokemon era😭

[supple magnet]

Perhaps in another case even these 100 people will not wait for the game to be released in a competitive form

[vivid bloom]

sure, get new ones then, you saved quite a lot of money for rewards/marketing then

also by the logic you won´t get any players if you don´t do this, game is a failure anyways

[supple magnet]

Of course, I understand that you can improve the game for a long time and achieve results, but initially the plan for seasons was announced, and now they are delayed without stopping, there should be at least some positive from waiting for “that same game”

[vivid bloom]

I think initially everyone was more optimistic around release and demand, even if only for future games speculation etc.
Things didn´t happen optimally and PvP games months after release still aren´t that great and gauntlet isn´t even unique game anymore.

Just throwing more money seems useless imo, only invites people who don´t care about the games or the future of them, but care about how they can earn some tokens short term.

I am mostly investor at this point, as being around people who mostly care for "how to make some token NOW" isn´t fun.

[tough wigeon]

the bull run will save us I hope with the idea of ​​card packs it can help🤞

[vivid bloom]

yeah, no game in web3 is "good" yet, all speculation, but ILV is one of the top ones, money inflow will be good and do more than any sentiment thing by few people could do anyways

[tropic river]

I don't see a problem with ppl wanting to make some money in web3, after all that's the novelty here. The problem is not having good games to back it up to create a fun and engaging ecosystem.

[vivid bloom]

The problem is if that´s most/everyone, you copy TCG economy in most of web3, but most play TCGs to have fun with friends/communities, few to make money.

[tropic river]

but we're not entirely copying the economy. For example, players in web2 get their skins from the game's shop, in our case many of the skins are in the players hands and are no longer sellable through the shop. That's what web3 brings.

[untold sinew]

The art is solid. If you aren’t a fan of autobattlers you’re screwed though.

[vivid bloom]

TCGs aren´t web2, they are irl and you own your cards/dice/deck boxes/playmats etc. and trade them for $ or cards/cosmetic items

Whole point (that gives a tangible upside to the average guy) of web3 is to have this "irl" economy of items.

[tropic river]

exactly, and having a marketplace like we do for digital assets is a big upgrade imo.

[vivid bloom]

yes, that´s why it is a "copy" of TCG-Trading Card Game-economy, as TCGs are physical games unlike digital ones (CCG-Collectible Card Game)

[tough wigeon]

yes you have too many cards to play it makes no sense to me that when you have a team of 30 illuvials you learn to play with you improve them you have a relationship with your illuvials that in gauntlet you have all the illuvials available I don't like it

[hollow sundial]

People in heartstone play to get a higher rank and missions(rewards). In illuvium without a proper ranking system and rewards there is no reason to play

[vivid bloom]

People play because they enjoy the game, there was barely anything for „ranking up“ in the early years.
They give lots of free stuff because they lose more and more players nowadays and wanna keep the few leftover.

[raw badger]

I think the games quality is pretty solid, my concern has nothing to do with that. It is bugs, I will not support any moves to release a competitive scene if it crashes too often and has too many game breaking bugs, this needs to be resolved first.

[dusty ingot]

Delaying doesn't hurt anymore because we already lost most people who got into illuvium in the past 4 years. We either go get new people with a good game or die. Holding a few thousand players sentiment won't make a difference

I wouldn't even mind restarting the whole ecosystem. I'm sorry but I think we are past the point where the team can take care of everyone. That's just my opinion

[obsidian idol]

Restarting the ecosystem would be the worst move that can be done. You get the Tattoo "rugpull" on your Face and will never attract serious paying customers ever again.

It's Like that Logan Guy would show up with crypto Zoo 2.0 and claim this time, it will be different. Would you buy anything?