Hexagonal Board vs Square Board

[frigid hull]

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts about the possible benefits of using a hexagonal board instead of the square we have now.

Issue - corner comps.

Corner comps have always been an issue in my mind in arena. Properly balancing both Empaths and Psions has traditional been the 2 most difficult classes. Part of the reason is because they can sit in a corner where usually between 1 and 3 meless units can attack at once. There are few things more annoying than have 8 units alive still and your opponent has 2 or three in a corner taking them out one or two at a time while most of your team stands in one spot doing nothing.

Changing the angle in the corners from 90 degrees to 120 degrees allows ~ one more melee Illuvial to get into the mix and I believe this would make a pretty significant difference.

Thoughts?

[turbid sonnet]

I personally find corners to be a very intuitive and mid/low skill level decision to make in a game and I think that's a good thing to have. That said, your idea is interesting and could add some authenticity to the game

[golden kite]

The very idea of a non-standard board is interesting. But it is unlikely that this will solve the problem of playing from the corner. They'll still put psions and empaths in a corner.

[frigid hull]

Well yes, you still place them in a corner, but now that corner has 33% more "access" to it by attacking teams. So, a simple change like this alleviates quite a bit of "unnatural power" and allows for more balance into the game. @solar narwhal any thoughts about this from your unique perspective?

[solar narwhal]

I completely agree with the issue you’ve identified. This is something we’ve also been considering internally. We need to open a discussion around this topic because, as you mentioned, there are concerns with the corner meta and also the added complexity of a grid that right now may be too small. A simpler, more straightforward solution could help us address both the complexity and the balance related to corner mechanics.

Please continue brainstorming—I'm eager to hear any brilliant ideas you might come up with. I’ll make sure to bring them up during the GD meeting.

And also, thank you, @frigid hull, for initiating this important conversation.

[frigid hull]

Ty Nil.

My own "feeling" is that the board being slightly large (think around 50% ish more area) would benefit the game some and changing the shape to allow more "access" to corner comps allows the relative strength value of Illuvials to be tighter, which is what makes for a strong game experience for me. Even a rough circle would offer benefits similar to the hexagon vs square. Circle could be interesting actually.

What I envision if we get more access to these corner comps is that both empath and psion relative strengths can increase and this can create even more dynamic gameplay. I'm seeing this with the change in relative strengths going up (especially for T5 and S3 units). This recent change has created some epic battles where the fight is very fast and furious - it's more exciting.

[golden kite]

I've been writing for a long time that the board size is too small. Maybe that's just my opinion. But, again, this does not change the ability to place everyone in one corner of the board. Alternatively, it would be possible to make a certain zone around the illuvial, in which you can not put more than one ally (or no one at all?). But this option will make the Psions too vulnerable.

[frigid hull]

I think making psions more vulnerable is a good thing. I mean, that's the entire point.

well, psions and empaths

[turbid sonnet]

Btw do you guys think rogues should always jump to the back of the board like they do now or go to the exact opposite of where they are played? Sorry I know it's not board related but I wonder what people think about this

[cosmic jacinth]

What else should they be doing?

[turbid sonnet]

Perhaps jump to the back if they are placed at the back, jump to the middle is placed at the middle, same with front. So placing tanks in the back doesn't guarantee blocking them

Going back to the board conversation, perhaps there could be a way to build one so we can try it on testnet?

[cosmic jacinth]

Is there a reason why we can't rotate through a bunch of different board shapes?

[turbid sonnet]

Now that's an interesting take. What about having people vote at the start of each gauntlet game which type of board that game is going to be played? Similar to tft

[cosmic jacinth]

If it works for TFT, I can't see why it can't work here.

Ideally I feel like it should be randomized to force players to strategize around given constraints.

Speaking of constraints and forcing players to strategize around them, it might even be interesting to add pillars and LoS objects, too.

Maybe environmental objects like dot damage areas or flames popping up in certain spots. That can really add a lot of interesting gameplay. Kinda like those battle bot arenas if you remember those shows 😂

So if the issue is to change up the psion empath corner stacking meta, maybe block some angles from LoS so it's not so OP to stack all the psions there, or have environmental damage in the corners. Or maybe have traps that toss Illuvials away at certain intervals.

[solar narwhal]

Even a hexagon shape could work, opening by 30° each corner (from 90 to 120°) makes the corner strat much weaker.

I think this is a very intersting concept.

[turbid sonnet]

I also like it, especially since the structure of the arena is made of hexagons as well.

[frigid hull]

Symmetry makes my heart happy.

[turbid sonnet]

Ah, I see you are a man of obsessive compulsive personality as well

[south light]

Do you guys plan to make something that would allow illuvials to have better access between hexes? Rn if you gather together illuvials, its imposible to reach back lines. Also if your illuvial can't reach an enemy, it will stay idle.
Is this something you have in plan to change, or is it a desired feature?

[solar narwhal]

We have this as an outstanding topic to discuss internally. We agree that current grid/hex system could be improved in different ways.

[restive mica]

I think a hexagonal board would be interesting for backline access and maybe corner comps should adapt.

On a similar topic, I think the size of the board should also be increased. The total number of illuvials playable is 10 and it was 8 in ascendant. Also, the illuvials now cover the same area when you place them as their higher stage.

[signal bridge]

I think the size of the board was not an issue back then because illuvials where taking less square. I think either increase the size of the board, or reduce the size of each illuvials to avoid akward pathing

[terse marsh]

I agree.

On the other hand,if Rangers are implemented in Gauntlet, I could use my positioning to create a small opening in the enemy's corner, then have the Ranger slip in and defeat the enemy in the corner first, so it might be fine the way it is now.

In other words, keeping it at 90 degrees may allow for more variety in attacking strategies.

I often used this type of positioning with the Boomerang Ranger in Arena Ascendant.

[spice lagoon]

Implement an augment that blasts illuvials, 0 damage but just makes the illuvials move, like if theyre in a clump they will be spread out

[frigid hull]

I think this would be a mistake. Throws being able to deal with the issue squarely into whether you get lucky with augment rolls or not. I'd love to see Illuvium move away from this, not towards it.

[spice lagoon]

all good =]

[signal lion]

A hexagonal board could be interesting. I also could get behind a bigger board in terms of hexagon units per board.

[meager trout]

would it be an option to increase the size of the board, by adding additional length... And then make an areas where you are unable to place illuvial.

This way rogues would be able to jump behind enemies and other units would "wrap around" easier.... this would make corner comps way more difficult to pull off... but you could still place a tank in the back to intercept the rogues and protect your Psion's. but as attacks can come from more sides, it would be harder to create a "wall" like you can now.
(tried to illustrate in the screenshot... you would not be able to place units behind he black line... but as the round starts, the areas becomes part of the board and units move freely in the areas)..

Not entirely sure it it would make Rogues too powerful, and also not sure how hard/easy it would be to actually change the battle board size at this point.... anyway, just an idea 🤔

[fast walrus]

Ya I was thinking maybe add spots that were not placeable. Every game certain grid sections would be unusable. Like voids in the board. Would force players to adapt, maybe corner comps could work sometime other times it would be impossible because they would be too exposed. When the round starts the voids dissaprear and the units would be able to move like normal

[fast walrus]

Also to Soda's main Idea, This was actually done in another game called Project Elune. They did go under, but Hex board was interesting. They were also going to implement a 3v3 mode with each player getting a side of the map to build their bench. I thought it was a pretty good idea but they did struggle to get the traction or finances to make it work.

[signal lion]

I liked the Project Elune guys. Shame.

[vital raptor]

Don't do it with an augment, just change an illuvial or two so their ability throws the furthest illuvial to another location.