Illuvium Overworld - Remove all costs for stage 1, 2 and 3, but make everything RARE.

[cerulean hatch]

So, after a few months, and the result i said it would happen, im here again to say the same thing.
The only way to illuvium overworld to have success, is to remove all costs to play the game on all stages, but you'll only find T0 on all stages, and in some ultra rare cases, you'll find a T1 - T5 materials / illuvials

This way, all free to play players will come back again to play the game and try their luck finding rare stuff, the ongoing illuvials/materials will push in price
I got downvoted when i said this, lets see now, after months, what is your opinion?
Happy with the results of Overworld?

[cerulean hatch]

So, after seeing the results, seeing that its not sustainable, people still continue to downvote, interesting, very interesting

[ember spindle]

can you be a bit more specific with what you mean by "results" ?

[cerulean hatch]

go to twitch, and see how many are streaming, thats the result

2 streamers, 19 views, for a game this size, this doesnt tell you anything?

[ember spindle]

yes it tells me you have little clue about what you're talking about.

marketing has not been activated yet and the game is still in beta. We're still holding around 90% of the marketing funds.

and besides that this idea is terrible since it's exploitable by bots.

[lunar cave]

here we go again, someone knows the "only way" to save the game...

[cerulean hatch]

There are measures to counter bots

[ember spindle]

haha right? 🤣

[cerulean hatch]

so, after the airdrop is done, whats gonna happen?

even with the airdrop, you see 19 views and 2 streamers, and people still think its the right decision, thats quite interesting, its fine for me, i saw potential in the game, its like this because marketwise it doesnt make sense ^^

[ember spindle]

airdrop is paused in case you're not aware.

[cerulean hatch]

ohhh, interesting, they had to pause it, even more interesting

[ember spindle]

and the airdrop mostly just got us problems and not the ppl we would want honestly.

[cerulean hatch]

i wish i could see analytics on marketplace with airdrop paused, but the info isnt there, gives me errors

[cerulean hatch]

so the output that you guys wanted is the one that is happening right now? how many are playing today?

[ember spindle]

don't have those numbers sorry

[cerulean hatch]

check the price of the lauch of lands, and check the price now, this can give you the result

[uncut grove]

So how is Illuvium supposed to generate any revenue if we take away one of our main fuel sinks from the game?

Right now it's so cheap to do a run it's practically free already. I don't think the problem is with the costs.

[cerulean hatch]

the problem isnt the cost itself, this is one issue
The biggest issue is supply / demand

both issues are connected, if you decrease supply but keep the costs, you dont open the game for people to join again
Those two things are connected, you can see it right?

[lunar cave]

The game is obviously in a temporary state now, the main reward systems for the pvp modes are not yet implemented (which are expected to drive demand), so the whole economy is imbalanced.

You don't try to "fix" a game based on data that is coming out of an imbalanced state like this. You wait until the intended game system is in place, properly start to market it, and THEN you can plan changes once you have proper data.

Just be a little more patient. And the current market prices also present good opportunities for those who believe in the game long term.

[cerulean hatch]

Interesting, i can hear the same argument on 100% of web3 games

[lunar cave]

Perhaps everyone underestimated the time needed to develop good web3 games.

[cerulean hatch]

But whats more interesting to me, is that even in the current state, people dont wanna fix it, thats super cool to see, i didnt expect that, to be honest

[cerulean hatch]

well, good in what sense? 19 views in twitch for a game with 400k followers on x...
the game itself is well made, the supply/demand and marketplace isnt, its the worst possible

[lunar cave]

The team developing the features that will be the fix. This is what you don't seem to realise. "Fixing" something based on skewed data is the opposite of fixing it, yet this is what you are suggesting.

[tidal zodiac]

We dont want to break it even further
How is the game supposed to generate revenue without fuel?

[cerulean hatch]

marketplace fees like axie infinity would generate insane more revenue than fuel

whats the revenue nowadays with fuel? give me the number, lets see how big it is...

[uncut grove]

What exactly is your plan for Illuvium to generate revenue if not for the fuel sinks?

[cerulean hatch]

The team is developing, we are so early... oh boy, 4 years in web3, and its the same answers on every single project

[cerulean hatch]

thats the thing i said, if you open the game like i proposed, the volume that the marketplace would generate would surpass far higher than fuels are currently generating, just realocate the $$, separate a share from marketplace to land owners or something

[tidal zodiac]

Please stop asking us about numbers, we dont have access to that kind of info 😭

[uncut grove]

Why would we even need the marketplace if people can just bot farm overworld for free?

[cerulean hatch]

you can imagine by how the current state of the game is, its not hard to see it

[lunar cave]

Current revenues are irrelevant for the long term success of the game. As I already pointed out multiple times, this is still far from the intended state for the game. You are stuck in the flawed mindset of trying to "fix" things for today. But the long term viability is what matters, and we need more features to be developed and implemented for that, which is what the team is working on.

[cerulean hatch]

there are multiple counter measures with bots on multiple games, you're assuming that people will bot, assuming that the team wont have any anti-bot system, there are toooons of viable options, make the resources a "gamble" to get, like the same skin for everything, and then it RNGs to T1-T5

[cerulean hatch]

the long term success, bro i almost wanna open a polymarket bet to do with u guys, ngl

the long term talk i saw on every single project of web3, what a meme

[uncut grove]

Can you explain what you mean by "make the resources a 'gamble' to get, and then it RNGs to T1-T5?"

[cerulean hatch]

think about the usability, think about the long term, we are so early, team is developing incredible next gen technology, ye sure

[cerulean hatch]

so lets say you enter a stage 3, you wont see a T1-5 ore, and you wont see a T1-5 illuvial, you get it revealed once you mine it, or enter the battle, this would avoid the bot to aim only for good stuff

there are multiple ways to avoid botters, muuuultiple, its just a matter of using the brain

And also, in order to have bots in the game, the game must be good and viable to earn money, thats why you dont see bots now, cause its not viable, otherwise, you would see bots even today...

[uncut grove]

Ok. So you think that people will want to play a game where all the Illuvials and resources look exactly the same, and we perpetually gamble for free in the hopes of an extremely small chance of getting a rare NFT to sell on the marketplace for big $$$ which Illuvium can charge a big trading fee to generate revenue. Is that your plan to save Illuvium?

[cerulean hatch]

yes, i think people would play it, for sure.

[tawdry geyser]

would you say axie ifninity has a good economy model?

[cerulean hatch]

nowadays yes, before yes, but they screwed it being so late to do changes

id say 2021 until oct/november, yes, they were very successful, after that they delayed so much the changes, that things started to fall apart

by feb 2022 everything was dust, and then now, they are doing quite well...

[tawdry geyser]

what did you like about that model?
(except being able to use the infinite inflationary breed mechanic to flood markets and make dollars obv.)

[cerulean hatch]

far older game than illuvium, far more inflationary, and still volume is awesome

[cerulean hatch]

well nowadays its basically free to rent axies, to play and they reward "free to play" players that do their quests, its actually profitable to play

i was a breeder back in july 2021, the game was awesome to play (at least for me), i did a lot of money, but eventually they didnt do the changes necessary faster than the market felt apart

[tawdry geyser]

not to my knowledge.

[tawdry geyser]

market felt apart because of the breeders 😄

you can not onboard new people fast enough to fullfill the demand breeding created

[cerulean hatch]

oh im 100% sure of what im saying, its profitable nowadays, rent axies, play 1 ranked of each classic/origin, repeat, you'll end up with 1k+ usd a month, if you are a crackhead

[cerulean hatch]

totally incorrect, market felt apart because, of breeding costs and SLP usage

[tawdry geyser]

thats a quarter of the minimu wage where i live

[cerulean hatch]

thats 4 times the minimun wage where i live ^^

they had to increase SLP usage faster, they didnt do it on time, everything felt apart, and now they are doing insanely good, far better than illuvium, to be honest, just look at numbers.. 31.2 eth/day in marketplace, thats insane

[tawdry geyser]

and that's way only people in low wage countries would be even interested in playing that game.
besides it's no challenge to play, just braindead clicking people only play it for profit and the profit to be worthwhile is very much dependent on where you live.

[cerulean hatch]

this isnt a play to earn game? oh im sorry

[tawdry geyser]

yes it's actually not

[cerulean hatch]

oh its not? so illuvium isnt play to earn? cool, then why airdrop?

[tawdry geyser]

to lure people into ecosystem

[cerulean hatch]

ohh and perhaps didnt work, now its empty

[tawdry geyser]

i'm here... you here... doesn't look empty 🙃

[cerulean hatch]

isnt it? maybe im blind, oh i wasnt here for the past months, i just came to give the idea once again, to see if things changed

alright cool, ill go back to do my stuff and forget about illuvium for a few more months, let me know when things change

[agile jasper]

How much longer will we be saying “it’s only beta. It’ll get better” though?

[cerulean hatch]

welcome to web3.

everything will get better, we are so early, team is developing, you'll see a bright new ultra beast technology in the future, its gonna be the best game of all times, yada yada

[tawdry geyser]

lets try to stay constructive.
You will get everyones back if you can point out clearly why your change would be superior to the system we have now.

and try to think longterm.

[cerulean hatch]

Im constructive, i just dont like to see the same "we are so early" "try to think longterm"

im an old monkey in the forest, ive seen this 300000 times, dont bs on me, sorry, wont work

[meager jasper]

I believe in a hybrid system, where you have current game loops to catch, but also you have f2p modes. I think is the idea Team had in mind

[cerulean hatch]

the game is developed bro, they just didnt have the brain to think about supply and demand, lets be honest for once

[tawdry geyser]

making a post about let me play for free to get stuff i can sell to other people is neither constructive nor longterm.

[cerulean hatch]

its not a "let me play for free"
its a let everyone play for free, you know, like most of the games?

[agile jasper]

If it let everyone play for free it would have to be a lot better. Let’s be honest

F2P games are successful when their gameplay is engaging and exciting

[cerulean hatch]

not necessarely, if supply and demand was well made, like a person finds one T1-T5 per day, since the beggining, things wouldve been insanely different

but if you have nothing rare, a price to play, and nothing to do with what u get, of course it will die, its the only path, 2 neurons can do the job of thinking

[uncut grove]

So essentially you're saying let all the people play for free, and Illuvium sets the supply by making everything super rare

[cerulean hatch]

CORRECT.

[uncut grove]

That just sounds more like a job to me...

[cerulean hatch]

play to earn, web3, or you want just to use your money for fun and loose it?

[uncut grove]

How would you make a game like that fun? Or is that a non factor in your perspective

[agile jasper]

A lot of people already treat this game like a job. I’ve seen people say they’re taking a “vacation” from playing lol

I’ve also seen people say they play for over 10 hours a day

[cerulean hatch]

like axie infinity is fun, like every other web3 game is fun, making money and playing is fun brother, thats the fun of web3

[agile jasper]

Most web3 games aren’t fun though

[cerulean hatch]

oh they are, maybe not most, but many are/were fun

[uncut grove]

Besides the prospect of making money, is there anything else about these games that make them fun?

[cerulean hatch]

axie infinity, metacene, that other game that died but was cartoonish that i forgot the name, was HELLA FUN

[cerulean hatch]

so why play this, if i have god of war, hades2, baldurs gate? ROFL

[agile jasper]

I’ve yet to find a web3 game that doesn’t have a far superior web2 version.

Thing is, there’s little opportunity to profit from the web2 version

[uncut grove]

That's what I'm trying to figure out. Is it just about making money that makes these games fun or is there something else?

[cerulean hatch]

axie is one example, theres nothing near it, at least the classic one, was hella fun

[agile jasper]

Because those are fun so I play for free. I’ll play a shitty game if I can make some money though

[cerulean hatch]

its the idea of having fun while earning that makes it fun
also big time is hella fun / profitable

if u dont earn, you spend, its dumb, then just make a web2 game, ask the fee, and thats it, why bother involving web3, selling lands, etc... everyone that bought it and didnt sell wasted insane ammount of money

[agile jasper]

People are holding out on the idea that it will be profitable which is why they’re not selling

I don’t agree, but that’s why

[cerulean hatch]

nobody is holding fam, its just that no one wants to buy

[uncut grove]

Isn't there always going to be someone who spends more than they earn? How can everyone make money while no one is spending it?

[cerulean hatch]

that is correct, but SOMEONE needs to earn, not only the team ^^

[agile jasper]

Well yea, no one wants to buy, but you don’t think people are holding wishing that it will be worth something someday?

[tidal zodiac]

I like monster collecting games. And illuvials are the best monsters ever to exist
I never liked assasin creed oe god of war games.
If you like that type of games, play those
I like this, and i play illuvium

[agile jasper]

You know there are also good monster hunting games right?

[tidal zodiac]

None of them have the illuvials
I like them
Pokemon and palworld have shitty monsters. I could draw them better

[agile jasper]

Lmao

Who needs fun gameplay? That shit is dumb

[tidal zodiac]

Also one important aspect i like is the nft aspect of them

[tidal zodiac]

I agree that the gameplay of illuvium sucks, but they are working on it

[uncut grove]

Isn't that what we're doing now? I think the only missing piece for Illuvium is that we don't have the actual game finished, just a bunch of mechanics to support the game. I get what you're saying about play2earn, but I'd rather see a game that can accomplish that while also being playable web2. Have you seen how Off The Grid tries to handle that for example?

[ember spindle]

if you want to earn then get gud at the game. This logic of P2E and everyone gets just by playing is a proved failure.

[agile jasper]

I think Off the Grid does it well because it doesn’t make you jump through as many hoops to play

[uncut grove]

Exactly what I'm trying to say.

I think if there's a good demonstration available right now of a AAA game on the verge of breaking the web2/web3 barrier, it's these guys.

Their BR is what we're trying to do with Arena, and their Extraction is essentially our OW.

[agile jasper]

I think the game would have to be changed drastically to make it as engaging as OTG

[uncut grove]

But at least they're demonstrating what a lot of us have been saying needs to be done with Illuvium, which is why I think this idea of being like an Axie economy is a step backwards

[agile jasper]

Also, Illuvium has several games which all vary in genre which makes it even more confusing.

People who have an interest in extraction shooters probably want nothing to do with an auto battler.

I think creating 4 different mediocre games instead of just 1 good one was a mistake

[uncut grove]

Well, if OTG sets the precedent, at least there's a much clearer vision of how to get things done

Sorry @cerulean hatch, but my thumb is staying down on this one. I want something better than what we already have with the standard web3 offerings

[agile jasper]

@uncut grove is it true devs are working on an fps too? If so, that’s insane to start another project while the previous 4 need tons of attention

[uncut grove]

I've only heard rhetoric about it, nothing concrete 😔

[tawdry geyser]

no public info stating that there has developement started on another game/mode

[agile jasper]

Surprised when it was said on here no one told them it wasn’t true or to stop spreading rumors.

I’d be happy to find the comments if you think I’m misremembering

[tawdry geyser]

i don't know, maybe i missed it.
Team members talking about visions for future here on discord is neither an official statement nor does it say it's in developement just btw.
In theory the next game to get into developement would require data research made public and an IIP to get voted it. (also on the roadmap, but delayed due to obvious reasons.)

[cerulean hatch]

all good, im not playing anyway, so idfc

[brave belfry]

I think most of what I would say has already been mentioned by Fillow and others but I do not think this is the path to make illuvium successful.

I will also mention that there is supposed to be a progression system along with the stages. If that is still being implemented or not is a question and how it gets implemented even more so. But there are many risks with making it all f2p

[cerulean hatch]

ye right, we are in the right path right now, full of players, game is better than ever!

[brisk lantern]

The only way to make the game f2p is through ow combat, and scaling the difficulty of higher stages and tier illuvials proportionately, where the highest stages/tiers are extremely hard to fight-defeat-capture, to the point it's absolutely impossible to bot and is actually a challenge that only the top % of players can accomplish. Just making everything super rare and easy to capture sounds like the most boring game ever.

The team said they are working on monetization model adjustments, we should wait for that first, and see from there. But this is definitely not the way, not to mention it's gonna require a complete overhaul of how ow works.

[ocean solstice]

You know airdrop is paused now right?

[cerulean hatch]

When it wasnt there was 30 views 😂

But thats quite interesting response, means people prefer it to be the way it is, instead of having a free 2 play game full of people (and maybe bots), quite interesting

[ocean solstice]

Your method only incentives airdrop farmers/bots tho. Don't think that's the target audience

[cerulean hatch]

Im not talking about airdrops, there are multiple ways to avoid it

[ocean solstice]

Like?

[cerulean hatch]

Like having a certain ammount of fuel to be used on airdrops, or certain pay methods to it

The airdrop is paused, why is it? Wasnt the success of all times? I thought everything was fine, wasnt it?

[ocean solstice]

They are working on big updates. Reworking the whole airdrop system. That wasn't done in time so they decided to postpone season 3

[cerulean hatch]

Ohh right, and that will bring players back? Cool

[ocean solstice]

We will see

[cerulean hatch]

And once airdrop is gone? 0 spectators on twitch now

Not even old old old games that nobody play have 0 lives...

Basically what ur saying, this was made only for the airdrop, I gave one idea to make it a game for everyone, so interesting, and people dont want it, they prefer to see nobody playing

[uncut grove]

@cerulean hatch What are your thoughts on OTG? Why shouldn't we strive for a system like that instead?

Also, it's not like Axie is doing that great in viewership either

[quasi elk]

I want to support @cerulean hatch .I don't think it's good that the overworld completely excludes free players now. A successful game cannot be achieved without players who spend money, or without normal players who would like to spend more time instead of money. Many people want to spend less money but more time to try their luck to get rewards, otherwise this game will not have new players. Obviously new players first want to try free then decide to pay or not.(New players can obtain some low-level shards through tasks every day. By completing the online time, drones can be charged. My suggestion is that Fuels can be used to charge drones instead of buying tickets to enter the overworld now.)

In a word,if someone want to spend time instead of money, want to try his luck to get something.We should say welcome and give him chances.

[ember spindle]

you have T0's for that. The only thing rn is that the gaming experience is not good.

[quasi elk]

T0 is not enough. No one want to spend time to get T0's

[tawdry geyser]

why not? T0 are more expensive than t1/2 on the market place and you can farm it for free to get some $ for paid runs.

[quasi elk]

How many t0 were sold compare with others? We all know T0 is just for a first try. If I ask friends who don't know web3 to play this game, but the situation is that they want to get something good they should pay first, they will say no. Why not play other games? This is why now web3 game can't attract web2 players.

[tawdry geyser]

what do you mean first try?
T0 are the early game of gauntlet, which is a mode heavily in focus of the current developement

[quasi elk]

I mean no one want to enter if get enough T0

My point is clear. First they must come,then can sale something to them.

You play T0,I play T1-3. Want to have a chance toT1-3? Pay please.Ok byebye.

This is web2 player. They first must can play then they will consider to pay.

Do not want to pay?you won't have decent shards, you might not win an epic encounter, you might miss good stats illuvials and other treasures but you still can try your luck. Ok I want to become powerful I don't want to miss them.Then will pay.

[tawdry geyser]

that's not how it works in gauntlet. Everyone has to play all tiers. Have you played it yet?

[main hatch]

Definitely making everything super rare is not the way.

But players should need to work through a storyline/gameplay progression before they start to encounter rarer illuvials and need to have built their team up to defeat and a capture them.

I don’t like the 3 stage system where higher stages cost more money.

Much prefer just one stage with gameplay progression through regions.

In the same way that you start in pallet town in Pokémon yellow and have to start by building up a team, defeating people nearby and fighting at the gym.

Only once you do that can you progress to the next town/region in Illuvium.

[fallow tendon]

Fuel is provided by land bought by people who spent a lot of money based on the promise that all games would require fuel produced by their plots.
You propose taking that entire game away.
If Illuvium needs to make changes they need to be done in a way that isn't at the expense of people who spent $72 million (in sILV and ETH) on land. This not only propped up the team during development but (I suspect) helped to find funding. Land is held by many of the games early supporters who also hold tokens, buy Illuvitars, Illuvials, merch etc. Many are involved in all things Illuvium with both their time and money. We do not want to alienate them.

So, my question to you is, do you have a solution for repercussions to Illuvium Zero?

[quasi elk]

why new players need to play gauntlet?

[quasi elk]

As I said,my suggestion is that Fuels can be used to charge drones instead of buying tickets to enter the overworld

All activities need to cost drone power.

the region you enter is going to collapse in half an hour instead of basing on the drone power

[main hatch]

Just working through the details, but any money spent by people in overworld whatever the exact monetisation, will involve purchasing fuel directly or indirectly from the landowners.

There can’t be a monetisation model that affects landowners returns, totally agree.

That’s a fundamental of the project that at this point can’t be changed 🤙

[cerulean hatch]

Im back here, still no changes?

@tawdry geyser nothing still? dead as ever?

id consider my feedback, rather save the game while you guys can

[tawdry geyser]

There have been many changes the past 3 years.
Guess you need to be a bit more specific 🙂

[cerulean hatch]

is the game dead or alive?

lots of players playing, or still dead as ever? Cause what does it matter if you change something, and nobody comes to play? does that make any sense?

[lunar cave]

...

[upbeat lance]

BOTS will take over everything and BOTS will own all the rare illuvials without spending money. How can you run the whole economics without income? I would rather suggest that the free tier 0 land owner can generate atleast 1% of fuel and should be allowed to use the collected fuel to stage 1 OW map only and should not be allowed to sell the collected fuel from tier 0 land.

[cerulean hatch]

Cool, hows illuvium now?

1 viewer in twitch, amazing, but gotta wait for the long term right? ill keep waiting

[upbeat lance]

I suggest that they make ultra rare to catch tier 1 illuvials in overworld 0 maybe like 1% chance to encounter tier 1 illuvial and 10% chance finding and collecting tier 1 shards in overworld 0