#Illuvium Ranked Gauntlet Mode (E-sports)

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

echo wyvern
#

Overview: Ranked Gauntlet Mode would be the core E-sports mode in Illuvium, focusing on normalized levels and stats to ensure balanced and competitive gameplay. This mode encourages Illuvial ownership while allowing fine-tuned adjustments for balance without affecting other game modes.

Key Features:
Set Levels Based on Illuvial Stage:

Illuvials will have fixed levels depending on their stage:
Stage 1 Illuvials will start at Level 10.
Stage 2 Illuvials will start at Level 30.
Stage 3 Illuvials will start at Level 50.
These levels provide a structured progression, ensuring that Illuvials of different stages compete within balanced power brackets.

Set Stats Across the Board:
All Illuvials will have a base stat of 3, but this can be adjusted as needed for fine-tuned balance in Ranked Gauntlet Mode. This approach allows developers to address underperforming or overperforming Illuvials in E-sports without impacting their balance in other game modes.

Ownership-Driven Performance Boost:
Players who own an Illuvial will receive the base stats set at 3, while players who do not own the Illuvial will have their stats set to 0. This creates a significant 30% power boost for owning the Illuvial, giving owners a competitive edge while still allowing non-owners to participate.
Fine Balance Control:

By standardizing levels and stats within this mode, balance adjustments can be made with precision, ensuring that changes affect only the competitive environment. If an Illuvial needs balancing, it can be adjusted without disrupting its performance across other modes like Ascendant or Leviathan.

#

Encouraging Collection:

The stat boost for owning Illuvials incentivizes players to expand their collection. Owning more Illuvials directly improves competitive performance, encouraging players to gather a diverse range of units to maximize their strategic options.
Primary Ranked Mode:

Ranked Gauntlet would be the focal point of Illuvium’s competitive scene, offering a skill-driven mode that rewards both strategy and collection. Ownership of Illuvials is central to progression, with non-owners facing a clear disadvantage in terms of raw power.
Leviathan Mode Tournaments:

While Ranked Gauntlet would be the main competitive mode, Leviathan Mode would remain available for occasional high-stakes tournaments. These tournaments would cater to players with high-statted Illuvials, offering them a space for exclusive and intense competition, without taking away from the broader accessibility of Ranked Gauntlet.
Positives:

Ownership Incentives: Players are motivated to own Illuvials since it offers significant power boosts in Ranked Gauntlet.
Balance Control: Developers can adjust the balance of individual units in Ranked Gauntlet without affecting their performance in other game modes.
Broad Participation: While non-owners can still participate, ownership provides a competitive advantage that pushes players to collect more Illuvials.
Strategic Depth: Players benefit from building a complete collection, which gives them more strategic options in competitive matches.
E-sports Focus: Ranked Gauntlet becomes the central hub for E-sports in Illuvium, with occasional Leviathan tournaments for more elite competitions.

civic briar
#

I think this is worse than the current system imo, I don't think the main arena mode should be tied to overworld/illuvial ownership

raw palm
#

It's definitely got some good points to consider.

The fact that there isn't really a natural progression structure to entice players from f2p to owning NFTs was concerning for me, too. Going from a tier 0 Illuvial to anything higher just feels too split from a UX perspective. I stuck to playing stage 0 overworld for the majority of testing because I wanted to see if anything about that experience ever drove me to want to spend money for higher tier stage runs. It still hasn't to this day. Currently, the model the team is working with is a leaderboard payout of ILV but I don't think it's focused and directed enough to steer players into ownership.

I've been trying to show examples from how other Web3 Games have structured their web2 to web3 progression systems but it's also tended to fall flat in community sentiment. So I get where you're coming from and if you asked me a few weeks ago, I might've been more gungho about your suggestion. But at the rate I've seen, I don't think this is going to get enough support.

#

What I think would be a better way to spend your energy is to consider that this game is focused on interoperability at its foundation. Maybe there are better solutions coming soon. F2P overworld (with quests, dungeons, raids, etc) is currently being worked on, for example.

raw palm
civic briar
raw palm
#

So if Illuvium made a MOBA, would it be ok that it's structured so you have to own the Illuvial before you can play it?

civic briar
# raw palm So if Illuvium made a MOBA, would it be ok that it's structured so you have to o...

Yes it makes more sense in that kind of format, people can pick and choose which illuvials they want to use and shouldn't have to massively break the bank to do so

Atm gauntlet's modes are fine
There should a gamemode with low barrier to entry (Or no barrier to entry as is the case now with casual, which is best IMO) as this will help get more players to the game, and it will have the most competitive integrity as all players will be in the same position when they enter the game

And another mode that allows people to use the illuvials they work for (levi)

I think this feedback idea is just a bad middle ground between both of them

echo wyvern
civic briar
echo wyvern
civic briar
#

Even if that were the case I don't see how your solution is better than how levi works currently

echo wyvern
#

Casual mode can still exist for people to try it out but if we push a game mode that has 0 ownership at all then this whole thing dies if you don't get that your just wrong . ITs not arguable the Primary game mode for this game HAS to incentiviez ownership this i s not a million player game base that can support itself on cosmetics and extras

civic briar
#

It will be a 50/50 split between casual and levi probably

echo wyvern
echo wyvern
#

even if you increase the player base and increase the OW farming your still not adding enough GOOD illuvials to the pot at a reasonable price to make Levithan the primary mode focused on ownerhsip thats why casual and levithan will both have to me lesser modes and will need a new Ownership model game. Or we are just all Holding bags that will go to 0

#

Casual can have tourneys/ Levithan Can Have tourneys but the primary needs to be ownership not stats/level thislets the game be balanced and competive both

civic briar
#

So you want ownership to matter and care about the ecosystem but you want to aggressively bring the ceiling down by making stats irrelevant for the primary game mode and making the market way less interesting.

I am going to be very concerned if this post gets any upvotes but I doubt that it will

zenith pilot
#

👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎 👎

civic briar
low osprey
#

My guy trying to normalize everything because he is getting rekt in leviathan.That just mean your rank will be lower

echo wyvern
echo wyvern
civic briar
#

Which they have with casual right now?

echo wyvern
echo wyvern
# civic briar Which they have with casual right now?

You can't make a game like this sucessfull when you have two game modes spend 0$ , to Spend 20k plus? You have no conversion no game economy . Thats why where suggesting a ranked mode that users ownership not stats. You can get a full set off all illuvials for about 250 usd. But people could work their way in and get a full set of tier 0-3 for about 30 dollars

civic briar
#

That is literally worst of both worlds

echo wyvern
#

You could have E-sport Gauntlet with no ownership but it generates no revunue or value for the system, You can have levithan where cards have value for the few 5k Players ( 20 of which will be able to compete) but you won't be sucessfull if you want to have both you have to Blend It, Have Casual for people to learn , Have Ranked for Owenership , and have levithan for a few whales who want to focus.

#

You know what i think only one game mode would be best myself. But if you want just levithan you have to add other ways to get better stats(not perfecT) and peple don't like the idea about burning off bad stats to have a chance at getting better stats either through bonus engron energy on your next run or through random geneartion of new illuvals. If you don't increase the parity of stats levithan can't work as a game mode. To be honest let you fuse three illuvials of the same type for the same illuvials (using the same fuse thing we have now) but make the stats in this case random. I don't even care if the top 10 players sell all their stuff and leave the game becuase this game needs 200k+ players and we can't get their with just levithan and casual.

zenith pilot
low osprey
twilit phoenix
#

Idk, this sounds like bad news for OW farmers. I'm voting neigh homie

#

If you are having trouble finding illuvials with good stats, ask for some advice. I don't think this is the way to equalize the playing field. I also think Levi is a fantastic idea and should absolutely reward players and whales for their efforts

echo wyvern
raw palm
#

Couldn't we just scale the payout for Levi to be extremely high compared to ranked?

echo wyvern
raw palm
#

That would allow for the middle ground plus keeps Leviathan valuable enough for the pursuit of high stat illuvials

echo wyvern
raw palm
#

Ok, but at least it satisfies the design for perfect stat Illuvials being the most valuable, but offers a middle ground between $0 spenders and $20000 spenders

zenith pilot
raw palm
#

Well, technically I also joined discord because I thought there wasn't a good enough bridge to go from f2p to paying

zenith pilot
raw palm
#

Fair enough

twilit phoenix
#

I won't make it personal, but I definitely still disagree. I have yet to see anything meaningful enough that is backed by real solutions and not speculation. Gimme some data nomnomnom

zenith pilot
twilit phoenix
#

lul

zenith pilot
# twilit phoenix lul

its like he talks about all this math, yet says stat rerolls would make every illuvial more valuable..
but anyone with half a brain can tell you when you make something easier to get, it becomes less valuable.

twilit phoenix
#

I think maybe the thought is that the individual illuvial will be more valuable but you are right, if all illuvials "gain value" that really means they all lose it

zenith pilot
#

we need bad stat illuvials, there is no good without bad. its what makes the good valuable.
the funny thing is, everyone can see the stats before catching the illuvial, so i would ask why in the world is the person catching a bad stat illuvial when they literally see it? its their choice.
clowns are catching bad stat illuvials knowingly and complaining that they have too many bad stat illuvials...
what in tarnation.

twilit phoenix
#

We are getting off-topic lol I don' want git into trouble XD

pallid python
#

Lets try to keep it constructive, respectful and civilized even if you disagree with someones opinion 🙂

flint dragon
#

We currently have an excellent model:

  • For those who are willing to invest their money and showcase their skills, there is the Leviathan mode.
  • For those who are not ready to spend money but want to demonstrate their skills, there is a casual mode.
    Those who play well earn rewards. Those who play well and invest money earn even more. Those who neither pay nor want to play do not earn anything.

This model works perfectly, and I am strongly against the proposed changes.🚫

silver coral
#

So this is just complicated and unnecessary. I agree with the take on Winnie. If gauntlet will be as popular as we all hope it can be then theres modes setup for everyone already.

When it comes to tournaments, as a business we want to drive demand to owning Illuvials that will be used (leviathan). And my theory to do so is to have an enticing quarterly tournament with a good prize pool to which people will need to play casual gauntlet tournament to qualifiy.

Give the normies a chance to qualify using casual then it will entice them to complete their leviathan team/illuvials for a much bigger payday in the quarterly tournament. Since casual is monthly and the leviathan is quarterly or perhaps every 4th month then its more than enough time for casual players to either grind their illuvials or to buy their illuvials of the dex. Another option is to get sponsored by Whales/guilds to play their set of illuvials.

pallid python
# silver coral So this is just complicated and unnecessary. I agree with the take on Winnie. If...

I understand that onboarding people into the paid version is important. However, using casual mode only for qualifiers and leviathan only for finals feels a bit unnatural to me.

Why not set both, casual and leviathan, up the same way at the same time with leviathan just having a (much) bigger prizepool? So the normies can have fun in casual, the HC OG guys compete in leviathan and you lure them in with just bigger prizepool for leviathan mode?
You could reach more people getting rewarded doing it in the same timeslots, get double the content and i guess in a final form when the DAO isn't as desperate with onboarding as it is now, it is done like that anyways.

raw palm
#

I think the point is that going from casual to Levi is a huge leap compared to setting up a staircase. We have to remember that for all of us already invested, we're very willing to take that leap as we're pro web3. But for the typical web2 player, they're not going to see it the same way. Most likely they'll just stay casual unless there's a decent ROI in Levi with just a small investment.

This model we have now only makes sense for web3 users. If what we're looking for is conversion, it needs to be set up like a staircase.

Think of the frog in boiling water metaphor; it's the same idea. If you increase the temperature too fast, the frog will jump out of the pot. But if you increase the temperature slowly, the frog gets cooked. We want to cook frogs, people!

pallid python
raw palm
pallid python
# raw palm I'm saying if a web2 player would even consider playing Levi, they'd want to see...

Idk i think thats typical web3 Degen/ad-hunter thinking.
For example my cousin soent thousands of Dollars for Star Citizen ships and gamer equipement to feel emersed, never thinking about an roi. Thats just lost money for Fun and to compete on a high Level. (The amount of money he spent there, would be enough to have top 10 Deck for leviathan easely)

Casual and leviathan is imo just Like 1st league and 2nd league. If they are competitive, sooner or later they join leviathan just for bragging rights, to actually feel emersed since they are using their own illuvials, to get the cooler cosmetics or more fuel or whatever from leaderboard rewards etc.

raw palm
#

So we're counting on bragging rights as the main selling point for Levi?

pallid python
silver coral
# pallid python I understand that onboarding people into the paid version is important. However,...

Cause you'll have issues with prize pool and time. Set it up there's 2 separate tournaments happening each month? That's a lot of commitment. Prize pool for leviathan will be diluted now that it has to do monthly qualifiers then the end tournament. If you make leviathan bigger than casual then you trivialize casual prize pool and it becomes a casual vs leviathan problem.

Another is your eating the player base of from each. Here you can focus on casual and get a chance on the one time big time prize pool for leviathan.

Remember you get ilv for wining in qualifiers still. That's the casual prize pool spread into three where the leviathan one is dumped into this culminating tournament.

raw palm
silver coral
# raw palm So are we set up so that we're counting on the winners of the casual prize pool ...

There's nuances to it.

  1. Yes, by qualifying they're incetinvized to build their illuvial team for leviathan through Dex or OW because of the possible chance to win bigger ILV in the leviathan tournameny
  2. They can also get sponsored where whales back them up and lend their illuvials for a cut of the prize money where whales may not have the skills to even qualify in the first place

The idea is to create demand. The more people from causal gets a chance to compete in leviathan the more demand you create for high valued illuvials.

Farmers will keep hunting for better illuvials to supply dex, whales or players will buy them, and possibly players will play ow to level their owned illuvials.

raw palm
#

How do we know the winners of the casual pool won't just take their earnings and bail, especially given that Levi is more of a p2w vs casual? Is the prize pool from casual going to be enough to buy a competitive deck for Levi?

#

Because I'm hearing two different versions for why anyone in web2 would convert to web3. Dr. Spoon claimed it's because it's fun. Right now you're saying it's because there's a prize to be won

silver coral
#

No one can know for sure. While there's speculation, there's educated forecasting. If a player wins the casual tournament and knows he qualified for a potential payout that's x2 to x10 of his winnings. That's the incentive.

Because I'm hearing two different versions for why anyone in web2 would convert to web3. Dr. Spoon claimed it's because it's fun. Right now you're saying it's because there's a prize to be won

They're not mutually exclusive. Fun makes the game sticky. People will continue to play if they get fun value out of it. On the flipside of competition, people will play a game if they know they can win money from it.

In terms of marketing the way parallel did it was to entice HS pros to play their game by making it worth their while through tournaments. When they did they would stream and bring their community with them. I reckon this is how we want to convert web2 to our game.

That's the reason why we've partnered with liquid , gamestop etc. The difference here is rather than paying them outright for the partnership we get pros/streamers organically by enticing them with newsworthy prize pools

#

On fun... can we say we're there already that we don't need to pull the lever on leaderboard and tournament rewards? I don't think so. I treat illuvium now as the no man's sky of web3. It has potential but we're not there yet. We need to let labs build it up but in the meantime we pull different levers to leverage people to play

raw palm
#

Ok, I think this is a decent explanation.

feral sapphire
# silver coral No one can know for sure. While there's speculation, there's educated forecastin...

There is just one big caveat: Gamers still HATE NFTs.

To solve this, the plan was/is to have mainstream buy cosmetics for casual/F2P modes, which would actually be real Illuvials. So they would get nice visual upgrades in casual modes, but can also now play in ranked modes with these owned Illuvials.

But this means we need a good sized prize pool for ranked modes as this will be the mode for most newcomers.

If my proposed modification to Ranked actually works, then we would have new players compete in a combined Casual/Ranked mode. When they buy their first cosmetic they will then not only enjoy a nice visual upgrade, but also a nice earnings boost from owning the Illuvial. All while still playing the same game mode.

raw palm
# feral sapphire There is just one big caveat: Gamers still HATE NFTs. To solve this, the plan ...

I think that might be why we're targeting the niche market of web3 enthusiasts first and following the meta of "sponsorships as a means to progress into Leviathan." That's also why casual is our marketing attempt to get web2 players without a middle ground to Levi. And because we're setting up our ecosystem this way, we don't have a "self-made progression system" that isn't p2w.

I think the team is pretty set on playing it out in this way. My guess is they're trying to keep web2 at a distance with free games so they don't have to even associate NFTs to any sort of gameplay functionality (read as: web2 hates NFTs being associated with games). They're playing it safe by catering to web2 f2p and web3 whales separately. There's no middle ground via gameplay mechanics, just sponsorships, p2w or prize money.

This is the plan we've got given our situation as we need time to build out the game ecosystem to even begin to consider other options. That's what I understood from scrubs explanation and probably why any idea that's not in that direction is probably going to get shut down.

echo wyvern
# flint dragon We currently have an excellent model: - For those who are willing to invest the...

While I understand your support for the current model, it’s crucial to recognize that the structure as it stands is flawed. Leviathan Mode does reward those who invest money and showcase skill, and Casual Mode allows for skill-based play without financial commitment. However, this model will lead to zero income growth for the game in the long term.

Let’s be clear: no one is going to jump from a format that costs $0 to one that requires $10k+ to have a competitive deck in Leviathan Mode. Any game designer will tell you this isn’t sustainable. It’s simply impossible to create a healthy game economy when you rely on such an extreme leap in investment. The idea that players in Casual Mode will eventually convert to Leviathan whales is as unrealistic as expecting people who enjoy running races to become NASCAR drivers because they both involve racing. It just doesn’t work that way.

This is not a matter of opinion—it’s objectively a flawed model. There needs to be a middle ground, and that’s where the proposed changes make sense. A Ranked Gauntlet Mode with normalized stats but ownership rewards provides a more gradual progression path. It still incentivizes owning Illuvials but doesn’t create such an enormous financial barrier between casual players and competitive play. Players would be able to move through a natural progression, from free-to-play to moderate investment, and then potentially into Leviathan.

The current model might function in the short term, but over time, it will fail to retain or convert a broad player base. The proposed changes are essential to ensure the game’s long-term viability and appeal to a wider audience, keeping competition meaningful while maintaining a strong incentive for ownership. I’m sorry to say, but in this case, you are simply wrong—this isn’t about opinion; it’s about ensuring the game’s future sustainability.

echo wyvern
# feral sapphire There is just one big caveat: Gamers still HATE NFTs. To solve this, the plan ...

Gamers hate spending money at all. If you give them something free to play they will spam it to death and never spend a dime the conversion rate from F2P to Paid player in ANY game even the micro transaction games caps out at around 5% and must of those are only small spenders. Meaning to get the size playerbase we need for our game from a f2p audience even if we implement this system is somewhere north of 10 million players (Impressions)

#

I don't understand the Argument Against this is EXACTLY the same progression devision the team setup for Ascedant , Casual, Ranked, Levithan?

feral sapphire
echo wyvern
# feral sapphire A completely separate F2P Arena/OW install without NFTs might be the way to go. ...

Ding ding ding , Exactly we aren't going to get massive income from levithan we are going to get massive income from the entire economy working meaning we need a large playerbase and we need the money where spending on tourney prizes as advertisment to be able to pull in players. Having a ranked mode thats better balanced do to normalized stats and levels but requires owenership will do that. A top tier TFT player may buy NFTS to play in a tourney if those illuvials cost him 300 USD for a full set they are not going to do it if it cost them 3 months of farming and a few thousands dollards in fuel to HOPE to get good illuvials. Risk not worth the rewards

#

It's all about baby steps. You have to structure the game so that each step in a player’s journey feels rewarding and worth taking. It’s not just about reaching the end goal—it’s about ensuring that every stage along the way offers value. That’s how you build a sustainable game economy. This isn’t a mystery; anyone who’s ever studied game design or economics knows this.

I don’t understand why there’s so much debate around this concept. We know how game economies work—it’s practically an established science at this point. Yes, there’s some art involved, but when it comes to fundamentals like this, it’s really just about getting the numbers right.

raw palm
# echo wyvern While I understand your support for the current model, it’s crucial to recognize...

So would you say that the current model will suffice in the short-term until the ecosystem gets built out more, after which we can consider other options to give players more meaningful progression in their journey?

And why not be in favor of the sponsorship model? Axie made it work and got off on a killing with it during their peak. I think even today they still have 200k - 300k monthly average users

raw palm
# feral sapphire A completely separate F2P Arena/OW install without NFTs might be the way to go. ...

I proposed a while back to consider the Guild of Guardians method, where the base characters can be free to obtain, but progression in character development stalls unless you mint your characters into NFTs. After which, you need more of the same NFTs to continue "ascending" them. There's some more nuances about it, but it's the same idea as being discussed here, gradual progression into NFT ownership.

Having said that, I'm at the point where I'm willing to see how the current strategy plays out

raw palm
#

I think as of now, the majority of the community just doesn't see it as a problem. Maybe it isn't, and it works out as planned.

We have live examples to examine in the meantime. I'm sure if we go and examine how Axie Infinity is currently doing, we can see how well this strategy holds up long-term

echo wyvern
# raw palm So would you say that the current model will suffice in the short-term until the...

i Actually think the Current Model is the Worst Possible Iteration of ANY of the models. If you wanted to say hey Gauntlet is in Alpha during Alpha its 100% f2p you don't destroy the expectation that you will have to own eventually to play. If you say Gauntlet is a Whale Only Mode at this time and where working on a diffrent model for general players you set the expectation that this game mode is NOT an e-sport and must people will ignore it. But saying we have a f2p play e-sport mode to try to bring pepole into a ecosystem built for whales its like trying to sell Rolox Watches at Walmart 🙂

raw palm
echo wyvern
raw palm
#

Wouldn't you agree that Axie was able to convert a substantial number of players into its web3 ecosystem during its prime?

Some people have projected that web3 would overtake web2 in value and player population within the next 10 years.

feral sapphire
#

Axie had its bull run during a bull run and with tokens that were still fresh and not "after the hype" like ILV. It might be an unpopular opinion, but Illuvium needs to continue on its road to mainstream adoption, as painful as it might be. Illuvium never has been a classic web3 pump and dump game and never will be. NFT mainstream adoption will happen, Illuvium just needs to be ready when it happens.

echo wyvern
# feral sapphire Axie had its bull run during a bull run and with tokens that were still fresh an...

Axie let its web3 prevent anyone from entering they made even owning a basic axie impossible for their average player and during a bull run it worked to be a good web 3 game. But if Illuvium is going to do ANYTHING its got to be a great web2 game . I'm sorry i don't care if the top 50 players leave the game it doens't change the chances if this game succedds or doesn't It really doesn't becuase the only way this game succedds is if we get 300k+ NEW players to Buy assets and take part in the games economy . If you want a pump and dump game stick on this path . You've got 12 months until BIG HUGE annoucments start hitting over Really Top Level AAA games that have "Crypto" Markets attached but those will be held by giant companys and you won't get a DAO and you won't get a say in what happens in those games becuase their game Economies will work. And their game systems will be streamline to take ALL The profit and funnel it into the companies hands

#

Illuivum might well be the last Chance for a True Crypto GAME to succeded made and funded by the players in a DAO since. Becuase big studios understand that WEB3 is the next big thing. They won't have to microtransaction you you will do it to yourself fighting and srapping over the scraps they give you and they will take a market cut off every transaction. They now get by selling you stuff great but next they will have you sell eachother stuff and just take a cut they get to be the credit card company in this model

raw palm
raw palm
# echo wyvern Axie let its web3 prevent anyone from entering they made even owning a basic axi...

I think one of the other interesting things about Axie is the player population was predominantly in the Philippines, a socioeconomically poor country. Plus, the game being very accessible via mobile devices probably helped in gaining traction. It served as a way for people to compete their way through a game to build some kind of income with the reward payouts that might not otherwise have been attainable in conventional income generating methods of that country