Illuvium Royale

[high crystal]

I am going to be talking about a simple Battle Royale that uses all existing assets and the aforementioned Multiplayer integration to build a brand new experience anyone can enjoy even with weak Illuvials. The preface to this is the integration of Overworld combat, find an Illuvial, fight them and then capture them right there in the open. To avoid droning on, I am going to simply lay out my idea and you can come to your own conclusions.

1. Every player selects up to 2 Illuvial NFTs and jumps into a free instance of the Overworld.

2. 8-12 players all fly over the top of the world in a Fortnite style fashion and players see the map in front of them.

3. On this map there are 30-40 Illuvial icons, showing what has spawned, maybe a Jotun is nearby, and maybe a Rhamphyre is at the other end of the map.

4. Players drop on the zone they are interested in and start hunting Illuvials, loaded with a set amount of free shards, 4 Rares, 3 Epics, 2 Resplendants and 1 Master, they all have slightly enhanced odds.

5. Players go out and capture as many Illuvials as they can using the Overworld Combat systems and the shards at their disposal. If they die, they are eliminated. If they capture say 3 Atlas they automatically fuse into an Axon.

6. Any player that exceeds 6 Illuvials (including partners) will be forced to release the extras back into the map (NFTs would not be burned, obviously).

7. As the blue circle of death encloses on players they meet in the centre around the obelisk and duke it out. The final survivor wins!

8. As for why players would play this new Game Mode? Well it sounds fun as hell to me, but it might also have some sort of Leaderboard system for Rewards, or maybe every time you win one of these matches you gain a bunch of items like consumables, or EXP Orbs of some kind. The best part is if the Lizard League is able to integrate this Game Mode then players can wage ETH before entering and play a fun game with some serious stakes.

[tidal gate]

6. released back into the map so they're recapturable?

[high crystal]

Yeah I'd say so, but doesnt matter too much

[tidal gate]

It does sound like fun... I wonder if the jetpack would be too strong in this mode since the one thing for battle royales I've noticed is movement is usually limited to the ground

[high crystal]

Oh yeah I never thought about that, maybe it would just be more restrictive

[tidal gate]

It would be interesting if ground vehicles could be incorporated, and require fuel to use

I've always liked the idea of using Illuvium fuel for vehicles in PvP combat

Maybe one way that could work is if you spend a certain amount of fuel before the match starts, that spawns a vehicle somewhere on the map.

[plucky vortex]

sounds fun, what does winning achieve?

[tidal gate]

Maybe it can be a seasonal ranking. Build up rank points and MMR to climb the ladder.

You could also get Illuvial XP and maybe some mats/consumables

I'm sure some people would prefer to level up their Illuvial's this way instead of just doing arena/ow

[solar abyss]

Plants and rocks are disregarded in the current idea. How about upgrades in health or damage based on rocks/plants you shoot? Have all spawns enabled so that players have enough things to shoot or interact with? It could be interesting to have that balance out to having high power Illuvials -> dont catch any illuvials and just solo-carry without them

As far as i understand from this idea, you seem to find random illuvials in this mode? So it would not make sense to take illuvials with you that get XP, only to trade them for stronger ones on the map. So it could be a solution to obtain a solidified representation of the XP obtained in the game that you can give to your illuvial instead? 👀 an XP shard.

[hallow hawk]

only 1 thing i really have to say, were adding on too many game modes, if were gonna add another 1, we maybe want to remove another, like Ascendent and replace with Illuvium Royale or whatever.

it is clear that Gauntlet is superior to Ascendent mode, i dont even think they should be putting much time into ascendent at this point. The whole reason Gauntlet was created in first place was because Ascendent just wasnt it, it wasnt working. IMO.

Replacing it with something else might not seem too bad.

[midnight swallow]

I really like this idea!!! I think it could also be cool if it were possible to play as one of your Illuvial's, kinda like skins used in Fortnite. That would strengthen the bond between player and there illuvials even more.

[tidal gate]

Atlas jammy skin?

[tidal gate]

So would that mean Arena encompasses every kind of PvP mode? Or do you think these game modes should still be separated and arena remains unique as an auto-battler

[faint mountain]

My Conviction: autobattler is never going to take ILV mainstream. All industry reports says TFT as a genre has been contracting worldwide since 2001 and is minuscule outside of Asia. I do not see the correlation of Asia with ILV's core constituents. We need something like @high crystal desperately from a strategic business perspective.

[tidal gate]

I really want to see the Illuvial combat footage they've got floating around internally. That's going to be the next step for anything fps PvP based

[faint mountain]

This makes two of us. I really wish they would partner with an outside UnReal developer agency to build such functionality out. Play to ILV's strength which has been the art and willingness to pioneer into inoperability. Better get to market soon because Solana is eating Ethereum's lunch in all metrics, but especially NFTs that likely will crush IMX eventually.

[echo dragon]

To be fair, autobattlers haven't existed since 2001, so I'm not sure why industry reports are saying they've been contracting since then. TFT launched in 2019, Dota Auto Chess was also 2019, and if there were any predecessor of TFT it would be something like SC2 custom maps like Direct Strike. Even Automate (automated chess) was 2020. It's really a pretty new genre.

Battle Royale is definitely a more popular genre, there's no denying that, but consider that entering into competition with the current lineup of Battle Royales is pretty daunting by comparison. Fortnite, PUBG, COD Warzone, and many other games with 5-10+ years of history are in that space, and would be in direct competition.

Overall I'm wary to have community or council getting too involved in game design. Design by committee has a proven track record of failure. Developers who directly follow the wishes of their community tend to ruin their games and IP. There's a fine line between listening to feedback and creating requested features and QoL improvements, and directly creating things the community asks for 1:1. For my part, I don't think council has any business in designing games. None of them are game designers or have any history of creating games or game modes (ok, Caveman does have some experience, but it's not at the scale Illuvium is building). More importantly, game design is not the role they were elected to fulfill.

To me, this seems like the most basic way to slap a new genre onto existing infrastructure. Could it be fun? Yeah, it could be. Is it well thought out? I don't really think so.

This mode is free, it doesn't increase revenue as it's described, and it will cost a substantial amount of time and effort to develop. Implementing multiplayer gameplay is NOT trivial. It's a free game mode with no plan for monetization listed. Presumably this would be monetized through skins, as most BR are, but it's not specified here. Wagering depends on a third party, which should be negotiated before we're taking any action. A hope and a prayer isn't enough to start developing a new game mode.

Additionally, the DAO doesn't have any idea how Illuvial combat plays yet. It's cool the council has seen gameplay and is excited about the possibilities, but how can the community weigh in until we have the new features in our hands and can see how it's playing? We need to be sure that the core feature is solid before we start building new game modes around it.

[faint mountain]

@echo dragon thanks for the substantive response/feedback. I have no idea as to what genre of gaming should be pursued. What I do feel confident stating is tethering demand of the entire ILV economy to Arena seems to me at this stage a failed experiment with four years of internal development. This stated, in no way would I advocate to abandon Arena and complete what has been started. My concern is that after 60 days of revenue, we are about 60 times below what is needed to sustain a $1M/mo operational budget. Reaching a monthly cashflow neutral state prior to the DAO treasury being exhausted is highly improbable under the most optimistic assumptions with the path being pursued. All of the "runway levers" that Kieran laid out in September outside of RevDis suspension are speculative at best. If demand growth is verifiably dead per the data, now is the time to pivot and not in six months when the project is in desperation.

[echo dragon]

Following from your example, a pivot that might take 6 months to a year to build infrastructure isn't a suitable solution for a 6 month timeframe. Would need the team to weigh in on these timelines specifically, but changing a single player game to be suitable for a multiplayer battle royale is not a small task, especially when you factor in any kind of web3 integration.

Most of my criticism was intended for the idea itself, not at all towards you specifically. I suppose the core point here is that if we need to pivot, we need to pivot correctly, and frankly I don't think moving into a heavily saturated genre where we have little to no experience building in is the correct pivot. This is criticism against the pivot being detailed here, not against the idea of a pivot. I'm personally not comfortable with moving into a new genre of game where the idea is dependent on the fun factor of an untested feature. If this is the way the DAO wants to go, I'd like to hear the team weigh in first, and ideally design and develop the game mode, as opposed to the community or council.

[high crystal]

I agree, but at the same time I dont.

Adding extra Arena game modes = bad
Adding our first Overworld game mode = good

There is a large cohort of people that like the Overworld, like shooters and dont like autobattlers. I think catering to them is good.

[high crystal]

My suggestion has the exact same Monetisation as the Arena. You take your Illuvial NFTs with you. Its just a way more fun experience for a whole group of players that don't like autobattlers.

As for development time, it bases itself on core features already coming for Illuvium and leapfrogs off of them. This is not aimed to be a priority, but rather a natural continuation from combat and Multiplayer.

As for committee not getting involved. I've been discussing this idea publicly for over 6 months now in Discord VC and on my Podcast, this is just the first time I've properly written it down.

Now one of my largest concerns is that the market for BR is highly competitive and somewhat saturated, but quite frankly I think my idea is separate enough that it works. Small player size, full creature collector integration, and a range of other mechanics make this something players would genuinely look at.

[molten quarry]

I'm still eagerly awaiting to see what the 'Raids' in the roadmap look like.

[high crystal]

Obviously I concede it could use further monetisation strategy, but the idea is the same across all F2P game modes tbh.

Step 1: get more players
Step 2: convince them to get deeper into the funnel

[hallow hawk]

I believe we should completely remove Ascendent out of the game for right now, if you want to work on it in the back end and make it better or whatever and release it later to newcomers, would feel like a new addition, but right now remove it, make the sole concentration on Overworld/Gauntlet

[high crystal]

I really like playing Ascendant sometimes 😦 But I am not disagreeing that might be smart.

I'd rather wait til Gauntlet lobbies fill first tho

[hallow hawk]

fix the UI, its way too text based
look at the first screen with the thumbnails, looks much more alive and eccentric.
than once you click in, its just too basic/dead/vectors/empty text

this is the first thing the user interacts with, its your first 10 seconds impression

[faint mountain]

Nothing personal and I have no ego in any of this, but just hoping to get my capital back out. Agreed some form of a pivot is warranted. Hope the current IMC and the "DAO elders" like yourself can help Labs stir through the messy middle.

[echo dragon]

1. Monetization - It's fine it's the same, just wasn't detailed much in the original post.

2. Developing things properly to be set up for a FPS Battle Royale is a lot different than our current multiplayer infrastructure. Obviously an autobattler is different than an FPS in terms of what checks need to be in place. Anti-cheat looks different in FPS, etc.

3. Design by committee - Discussing an idea publicly in Discord and on a podcast doesn't mean it's not opening us up to design by committee. I mean, if this is entirely your idea, that's fine, but what track record of designing games do you have? Is there any existing catalog I can reference? This will sound harsh, but it's extremely important - What qualifies you to be designing games, and why should the DAO put trust in you to have done the requisite work to create a game mode that is this important for the DAO's future success? Have any professional battle royale developers been consulted? Do you believe this is part of your role on council?

As a corollary of this, does anyone on Labs have experience in designing or building Battle Royales? Successful studios tend to create a game in a genre they know well, and then stick relatively close to that genre. Moving into new areas involves a new learning curve and skill set. We can reference some of the top tier developers like Larian for this. Larian makes in-depth RPG games. Asking them to pivot to a Battle Royale would be pretty silly, because they don't build in that space, and there's a different skill-set required.

This isn't a super hard rule, there are developers that create across genres, but there needs to be some real inspiration behind the reason to move into a genre, some core idea or cross-over that will innovate the genre or mesh existing systems from another genre. It's possible that creature collecting meshed with BR is enough differentiation, but it's VERY hard to tell without having seen or experienced Illuvial combat 2.0.

[molten quarry]

btw when are we getting the Pre Planning Genre Research Documentation as defined in IIP 44?

[echo dragon]

Yeah, there's that too. I do think Scoriox has posted this as "just an idea" for feedback, moreso than as a proposal to develop, but I'll let him clarify that point.

[high crystal]

Obviously its a very early concept and idea. But I am still a designer nonetheless and getting feedback is a crucial first step in every facet of design, but no I am not a game designer (yet). From everything I've seen and heard from individuals in the Crypto Gaming space, they would love this type of game and it would make them look at Illuvium in a serious sense again. You can discount this feedback all you want, but in my opinion its important.

I mean if people liked it enough I could easily create full design docs, with everything meticulously thought out, but its obviously not at that stage yet and the team wouldn't be able to build this for many months so its not worth doing that just yet.

As for things being different from our current Multiplayer Infrastructure, you are 100% correct but I spoke with the team on this and they do plan on moving towards a genuine setup for lower latency at some point, which may even be needed for their social multiplayer features.

Anti-cheat is a really good point to bring up and adds complexity I had not considered.

[echo dragon]

We've heard from loads of people who would love a MMORPG as well, that doesn't make it a good idea or a good fit. It's a genre with an abysmal success rate with a high barrier to draw players away from existing games, that takes a long time to develop. My point being, positive feedback and support doesn't outweigh the realities of transitioning to a genre that Labs hasn't built before. A lot of people will say nice things to avoid offending someone, or will genuinely not know how studios tend to specialize in a specific type of game and build up a skillset around making that type of game.

None of this is to say this idea couldn't work, just that I see a lot of problems with it, and I'm not a game designer either. If any of what I said isn't true, do feel free to challenge me on it or disprove any of my points. I might not be right, but I'd like to see counterpoints or more elaboration on why some elements are a good idea.

For example, what are the critical aspects of a BR that make it successful? How are those being integrated? What parts of the idea will be compelling enough to draw players away from the games they currently play? Are there mistakes other BR developers are making that create a gap in the market for us to enter?

For example, easy entry to BR is a critical part of why it's popular. Someone can download a BR and start playing immediately. If players need Illuvials to play an Illuvium BR, we have an extra step preceding gameplay.

Most BRs reward skill over luck or spending. If Illuvials used are player's NFTs, with stats enabled, that premise is at least partially voided.

Maps in BRs are extremely important. Illuvium's maps are not designed with a BR in mind.

Just three elements that need to be considered, none of which I saw addressed. Will we redesign maps to be BR appropriate? Normalization of Illuvial stats? How can we get players playing immediately after downloading?

[faint mountain]

What do you think is the most viable pivot to increase demand/adoption?

[echo dragon]

This isn't a popular opinion, but I don't think we need a drastic pivot. There are people infinitely more qualified than me to weigh in on Gauntlet, but I think OW could be sufficiently improved with Illuvial combat (if it's as good as we've been hearing) AND a more consistent progression system that impacts gameplay.

One thing that I found kind of rough in OW was that every run feels pretty samey after you've built out a team of Illuvials, and a single team of Illuvials can realistically handle most of the autobattler encounters. Overworld Illuvial combat changes this, but the thing that I think could persist is that you get your team that works, then you never get more power or do anything different. Player decisions are pretty minimal, essentially reduced to choosing whatever is the most valuable resource or Illuvial to gather. I think it could be cool if, since OW is a single player game mode, the player were to get more power or the ability to make choices based on what they've cumulatively captured. Got all fire Illuvials? Get a free fire synergy to level 1 for combat.

Again though, really difficult to say having not seen the updated combat.

A pivot could work if the team has a specific idea for what they want to build and can make a compelling case for how it's going to fill a niche in the market or otherwise be a super fun game. I'd prefer it to come from Labs though, since they have a full picture of their capabilities and appetite to develop games.

TL;DR: I don't think a drastic pivot to a new game mode is the smartest thing to do. The core of what we have is quite good, it just needs further refinement for progression and skill expression, with more focus on player agency and decision making.

[faint mountain]

Helpful substantive input. We need to curate the most qualified insights to form a consensus and a theme for a pivot that the DAO directs for Labs implementation. The process pursued the last 4 years has got us to sub 500 monthly active users (customers). We need around 200,000 spending around $25/mo to sustain $1M/mo ops and to pay RevDis based on back of the napkin math and it needs to happen in under 12-14mo. and/or ILV needs to rapidly appreciate to raise capital w/o debasing everyones tokens into a value death spiral.

[high crystal]

What you are saying isn't false but there's a lot of missing info here.

1. Conflating the development time of an MMO and my idea here is absurd, by a factor of at least 50. Your points regarding the teams lack of experience developing a BR is fair, but the general development time is wildly different and my idea specifically would be significantly faster than an MMO to a degree where comparing them on that basis makes zero sense.

2. The critical aspects of a BR that make it successful are generally the map and level design. Its something that Illuviums worlds leave wanting in the current environments but thats only for a large scale BR, I think its plenty fine for a small scale like I have proposed.

3. The idea is not to draw people away from games they currently play, my idea is so different in so many ways that they either enjoy one or the other or play both for different reasons.

4. The mistakes other developers are making is no one has even attempted a Pokemon BR, really think about it. Some of the biggest episodes of the anime were a Pokemon BR. Even the Yugioh duel kingdom arc is a similar vibe and a game people have a lot of interest in.

5. Players dont need an Illuvial to enter the BR, and even if they do, the cost is pretty tiny. Now of course any sort of friction is bad, but this isn't just like every other BR and I think that's fine.

6. I think this would reward skill way more than the leviathan gauntlet. I mean even without bringing Illuvials, knowing which Illuvials to hunt, fighting them efficiently and building up a coherent team are all strategic elements not found in any other BR.

7. Yes Illuviums maps are not built with a full scale BR in mind. But for something small scale I think it works.

8. U mentioned 3 elements, they are answered in my other points.

[high crystal]

To be clear I know I am not a game designer but this sort of game is something I'd one day love to see made. If Illuvium doesn't make it then I will make it myself after I finish my Dice game.

I'd honestly like to see Illuvium become an IP hub and license out their huge library of assets to indie studios to try things like this at no expense to the DAO.

[tidal gate]

Honestly, whatever extra game modes and features they add, I would be thinking 2 things: 1) make fun, repeatable content, 2) add in fuel-sinks for monetization. That's basically what we're looking for in any given situation.

Even for MMO style free content like raids and dungeons, we should always be thinking how we can make fuel-sinks for them. Gacha games time-gate their resource and equippable runs, and allow for more runs via spending up to a daily/weekly cap. That's been a solid MO for "free" games

[languid nova]

we should do BR for the next game

[hallow hawk]

sure, i just dont want to see another game mode until the team proves they can handle and manage this one.

We take months to fix bugs, our hot fixes suck, and so on.

[languid nova]

been playing OTG, i can say it's the most developed web3 game by far

[languid nova]

well they are already working on multiplayer

it's more like a new game mode

moba and battle royale were mods

one element of a BR thats maybe lacking from our existing maps is building structure.
our maps are open field. theres lack of cover to loot stuff and use med

the BR might feel more like a brawl

[high crystal]

Yeah thats why I said low player counts. Focus on Melee weapon balance and it should be okay

[tidal gate]

It's better to get something going even if it's not full-fledged BR. Just having the option to request duels to each other via Illuvial combat would already be a big step.

[languid nova]

i can already imagine myself playing a BR in abyssal

[ember pebble]

Battle Royale peak was 5 years ago. Idk why we can't make our own good unique modes/games instead of just blatantly copying other games. Arena=TFT, now battle Royale? Brothers have mentioned a Mario kart game

[languid nova]

can we?
every genre peaked tho

[tidal gate]

If we want original, we should see how Illuvial combat looks and feels first and just give us the option to duel each other in OW.

Often it's the combination of different genres or systems that makes a game feel fresh. For example, have you seen Zenless Zone Zero? The combat gameplay works on swap mechanics that would probably be pretty innovative for an fps PvP genre. I don't think I've encountered a game like that yet.

[ember pebble]

Current meta seems like souls like/survival. I think a dungeon crawler type thing could work for us. Already have shooting and movement. Add some skills, real time combat, more loot/items and give us some caves/dungeons to go through. Add them into the OW and make them cost energy to enter

[languid nova]

let's see which genre is more feasible

given dev capability, existing assets and runway

[faint mountain]

Fuel sinks is speaking my language…fun and fuel should serve as the ILV North Star!

[plucky vortex]

Agree I'm thinking down the track. Focus on adding what's planned first.

Hmm maybe we could look at making a sandbox down the track. People can build whatever they want, using the resources ( transmuted) form Illuvium. Yet outside the Illuvium universe.
If people want to make games that they believe would be cool for illuvum there are no barriers or community pushes. Like how majong amalgamates the creations of its creators?
Personally I feel it's a more productive way to assess popular game play.
I imagine though it would take a fair bit to set that system up though.

[languid nova]

mojang?

[hallow hawk]

im leaning more toward a MOBA

if you think we can make a sick MOBA better than LOL/DOTA or even close
i say that would be the category/genre id go into with the IP that we already have with these illuvials

[dense glen]

I have a pretty sick ilv dota concept if we ever want to go that route. I was also thinking that it's the best option for the next game/mode, considering the assets we already have. The genre seems to be still popping too, with new successful titles

[languid nova]

i play mobile moba daily.
isnt moba much harder to get right than BR?

[tidal gate]

LoL was very unbalanced when it first came out. They even specced Janna as an attack speed mage with Nashors Tooth as her identity. Alistair was also OP as an AP burst champ but he was supposed to be a tank. Lanes were a ffa with no solid meta. It doesn't have to be perfect or have it's identity figured out on launch. It just needs to be fun

[hallow hawk]

well depends on the type of BR. personally i wouldnt want a half assed BR.
when i think BR, im thinking 100 player lobbies.

with MOBA, its only 1 map, we have the character models already, theme, etc
but yeah this is more down the line

[frozen wyvern]

Because our game designers are either failing or non existent

[dense glen]

The typical MOBA as dota/lol for sure, ours can be with a twist, by including few things that change it completely while remaining within the MOBA format.

[high crystal]

Oh it would fit abyssal better than brightland or crimson for sure. I can imagine it as a pretty fun br map

[high crystal]

Palworld too, but it proves u can bring back existing genres in new ways.

[faint mountain]

Given ILV is on EPIC, I think @high crystal recommendation supplies the most probable OW mod / mode to spur adoption. I have not read a single idea that supplies a better alternative to the DAO’s biggest problem (customer acquisition and accessibility) therefore I gave a thumbs up and hope the next appropriate step will be taken in earnest.

[high crystal]

It was mostly suggested because I think with everything the team is already building, it is the fastest to build and implement. But I am not a game designer or developer

[faint mountain]

I would prefer this idea to be fully vetted and, if validated, then an RFP process pursued for contract third-party development. Game development for mass player adoption is self-evidently not a current internal strength.

[high crystal]

The current games certainly leave some elements to be desired. But I really see them as building blocks, things to be expanded upon. Really I saw No Mans Sky the same way when it first launched. It built all of its systems, assets and procedural generation. Then added fun gameplay loops afterwards.

[languid nova]

theres a process in IIP-44.
i think we should probe into some new development ideas

[languid nova]

not being a game designer or developer should not discourage anyone to propose a new game idea.

[opal magnet]

I can see a palworld BR-type. You fight with your Illuvial against others and the stats of your illuvials matter. Or the cooperative monster hunter type where you and 3 others with their illuvial companion goes against leviathans in regions

[languid nova]

elon musk wasnt a electrical engineer, mechanical engineer or aerospace engineer.
steve job studied calligraphy lol he didnt even code a single line

yet here we are

[languid nova]

combat and multiplier do open up the posibilities

[faint mountain]

now we’re talking…just need some fuel sprinkled on top!

[high crystal]

In my defence I am rapidly learning UE5. It is great, and I understand its capabilities and general workflow at least 3x better than I did 1 month ago.

[high crystal]

Here is a curve ball scrubs. If there were 'fuel wagering' is that in a different legal circumstance to directly using eth? Since fuel is an ingame currency with no redeemable qualities? Still gaming/gambling laws or?

That'd be a viable and optional fuel sink since ILV could still take a rake

[opal magnet]

Really depends on the jurisdictions. Wagering fuel might not be considered as gambling based on three points 1) in game currency, 2) not converitble to fiat, and 3) skill based.

I look at HS Arena for example you pay a certain gold (in game currency) and you have 3 strikes before your run ends. If you win up to 12 games you get the best outcome possible (winning more gold than you put and cards). This isnt considered as gambling.

So a version of this is you pay Fuel for BR and a portion of that goes to a pool of rewards that you can win if youre no.1

[high crystal]

If not an issue, I think it would be the perfect fuel sink for the game mode, and completely optional.

[tidal gate]

I wonder if we can incorporate lore into it. We have factions coming sometime in the future... What if donating fuel boosts your faction's power, and if your faction members win in any tourney/pvp, you get winnings based on some dynamic scaling multiplier. But instead of calling it winnings, we just say we "captured the enemy faction's resources"

[high crystal]

@indigo narwhal make it happen ❤️

[crude creek]

i approve this message to be futher fleshed out. even if it is a loss leader for the eco system. and it doesnt even need to be that entirely. I once proposed a WWE entry style intro/outro. this can be introduced to show off illuvials, vfx, emotes, poses, skins, music etc all of which can be micro transactions while letting the game ultimately be f2p. I hate the investooors getting involved just to make a quid. good game breeds good revenue.

[hallow hawk]

im definitely not for a BR that is limited to 8-12 players, if were going toward the big boy genres (MOBA / BR) we should go big.

so if were making a BR it should be big enough to fit 100 player lobbies, like Fortnite
definitely nothing less than 50.

in my eyes, even tho i come from more shooter based games, i feel like MOBA will be the better direction for the style we have, but yeah if they decide BR, than minimum 50 max 100.

[crude creek]

if we are to play on the current maps. a player capacity of this many is unsustainable

[hallow hawk]

combine all the maps into one big one.

all 7 maps combined into one

[crude creek]

this is a goofy solution. i could see it work for tournaments and the top 2 progress but as for combining them that is a no

[hallow hawk]

how is it goofy tho? you have one big map of BR which is a combination of all the 7 regions into 1. and you jump in to battle like Fortnite

[crude creek]

it wont fit lore, the regions are dramatically different, how would they transition to each other without it being janky, there is no flow or reason other than lets just smash it togeather and this will be a winning solution. goofy.

[hallow hawk]

there will definitely be a way to transition what do you mean?

[crude creek]

how does crimson waste transition into brightland - it doesnt

[hallow hawk]

im pretty sure regions on Earth are dramatically different, its like saying how does California transition into Moscow

you go from sunny to snowy..

[crude creek]

if however there was a pool of 60-72 ppl, there are 6 maps. the top 2 ppl of each map progress into the final 7th map (and the game was balanced - where all illuvials are equally available instead of crimson=fire) then this "transition" into the final round makes more sense.

[hallow hawk]

bro im thinking you have a combination of all 7 maps into 1 big map like Fornite has it.
you jump from the Illuvium Spaceship, up to you if you wanna land in Brightland, Crimson, Boreal, etc
you drop down and theres loot on the floor aka the weapons we already have in this game, the suits we have in this game, and just like fornite and other br games, there is a ZONE that closes in and eventually the finals players remaining end up in a random area wherever the end zone takes them.

and us having/incorporating Illuvials in that game, is our thing like building walls is Fortnites.

with this, you can even have team gameplay (like Apex Legends), for example, before match start you can choose your illuvial companion,
Adorius player as healer, Phosphorus as Assassin/Damage Dealer/ Titanor as Defender (you get the drift)

[crude creek]

yes i understand this is your concept. and i think its goofy. for the same reasons I previously mentioned. because I understood what you were proposing. its a lot of art/dev resources to try and get that giant map to appear seamless.

[hallow hawk]

it definitely can be done and in my vision i think it would be dope. to each their own. matter of perspective

[hallow hawk]

@indigo narwhal what do you think on this, im curious

[hallow hawk]

anyway, im moving on from this post, gotta concentrate on the stuff we have now, all this can be talked about later on, its not the time at all to be focusing on this. cheers.

[placid sable]

I'd feel better if this had 2026+ in the title. The existing 4 games need a lot of focused work for the ecosystem become very successful.

The idea is super cool though!

[sly notch]

I think a “Pokemon-style” battle Royale (that you start with few resources and grow) would be fun.

I would Add two things:

1- automatically starts a battle By touching the other guy (so you would run if you were weak)

2- a final boss with strong illuviums at the center. Whoever wants to fight him would be allowed.

Any defeat = game over.

[carmine flicker]

@high crystal What do you think about adding bosses to the map, placed in different areas? For example, we could finally give meaning to the giant eye in Brightland Steppes. This kind of mechanic is used in some MMORPGs, where bosses on the battlefield draw players to one location, provoking skirmishes. It could bring more dynamism to the gameplay.

[high crystal]

Oh for sure, its a big component of every Battle Royale. Apex has the 'hot zone'. Warzone has their bounties and other missions.

But really I was trying to concept something that is 'easy' to create and implement right this moment. I definitely think adding features comes afterwards.

To incorporate the methodology tho thats why my concept suggested revealing every Illuvial on the map from the get go. I imagine many players go straight for Rhamphyre for example 😛

In the vein of your leviathan, you could use them as points of interest that rapidly level up Illuvials, adding that into the strategy of the gameplay

[carmine flicker]

If we're talking about gaining experience for Illuvials, it's important not to devalue the hard work of the grinders from Overworld. The amount of experience earned should be reasonable.
Overall, I'm fully in favor of a battle royale mode!

[high crystal]

No hahahah, I meant within the confines of the Royale. These are not Illuvials you keep. For the Illuvials you bring with you it'd have to be a slightly different benefit from these POI

[hallow hawk]

@high crystal Emergency. If we are going for a new game mode, Id say we should probably go for a genre that is more popular than TFT-style autobatter/gauntlet, which is Battle Royale shooter or MOBA, but BR shooter might be easier. I dont believe we should go toward a Rogue-like game because the genre/category is not popular.

If were going to spent 6months-1year for a new game mode, we should go big, not small. Battle Royale is more action packed base, which would be a nice mix from what we have now, which is more strategical.

and if we do BR, we should do minimum 50-100 player lobby.
not some small 10 player stuff.

Just check the numbers of how many viewers watch Battle Royale shooter / moba vs. Rogue like genre. its night and day difference. what are your thoughts?
maybe even make a poll and lets see which genre community likes, etc

my question than is, what is an actual timeline of how long it would take for the rogue-like vs. BR? if its a massive difference than its understandable

i just want us to be 100% certain before going in too deep.

@indigo narwhal @cosmic knot

[languid nova]

from the trailer, one thing i might add is we need the combat to be more fast paced

hoping it wont feel like arena but on grass

[hasty citrus]

I thought kieran already hinted that the new game would be a BR

[high crystal]

So there is an important distinction here.

You say we should go for a category or genre that is popular, as opposed to TFT.

I agree, targetting a genre that is more reliable in terms of player interest is crucial, but this is not the same thing as a genre that is popular.

For example, targetting a BR and then making something similar to Warzone or Apex is a huge mistake, you either need to be magnitudes different, or magnitudes better, while still maintaining the core elements that make the genre popular.

A 50-100 player BR has the chance to be good, but if it feels too samey, it will never ever work. Our Gauntlet has similar issues but with the addition of the Ranger and such it'll definitely distinguish itself enough.

Now Moba is a really tough one. Making any hardcore or casual League player switch over to another game is an insane challenge. Supervive and Deadlock have done it well where it maintains the structure of a MOBA but is a very different game. Even Pokemon Unite made grand changes to the genre, even whilst leaning on the IP.

I think a Moba utilises our current assets really well, but we need to think long and hard about what sets us apart.

[hallow hawk]

how you guys/team decides to do it is up to them, i understand, i never suggested to make it exactly like warzone or apex.
i mean, we literally made a mode like TFT, would you say that was a huge mistake?

all im saying is the genre/category should be Battle Royale, and a 10 player lobby max is not the way to go imo.
way to small, not much hype. Off the Grid made it happen, just what ive been suggesting for years.
getting things ready and being on top twitch category for week+ by getting multiple streamers with high view counts to play same day same time to automatically get on the top viewed games.

[high crystal]

Its currently like TFT, but as I said, will become more distinctive soon.

My game idea at the start of this thread was an 8-12 player BR with a strong focus on capturing Illuvials. And you suggested 100 player lobbies, which is getting closer to a classic BR thats all

[high crystal]

Yes but there's much much more to it than them simply being a Battle Royale. Its called a 300 person team and 5+ years of development. We cannot do something of that scale in a short time frame to a degree thats magnitudes better.

[hallow hawk]

i understand

[high crystal]

Its certainly a case of work smarter, not harder. If you don't think a 10 player BR will be impactful in any way then we need to hit a different genre entirely, which is fair

[hallow hawk]

what i also dont want is to release something just to release it and have to deal with it later on.

[high crystal]

Personally I'd love an RTS 😛, this is just my personal bias lol. I dont think that'd be good for the project, honestly the opposite

[hallow hawk]

another strategy mode... sigh.

[high crystal]

I think that's fair criticism. We can't have something that will never make it, and we cant have insane scope. So we need something that can be iteratively enhanced over time. And doesn't suck in its first version

[hazy zealot]

If it was somehow more fun than other battle royales it definitely could.

I’m not sure how that could happen though.

[sudden locust]

This is essentially the same Idea me and Aaron discussed a few months back.

It's Ark survival evolveds "survival of the fittest" spin off. It's a cool idea and one Aaron seemed to be onboard with.

[languid nova]

maybe dnt aim to be more fun than other BR but instead more fun than the current games

[high crystal]

Yup heavily inspired by that, well I was already thinking about it before I saw those messages, but I looked into survival of the fittest and doubled down

[languid nova]

BR is slow because the map is huge, you need time to walk and loot stuff but the fight is fast. you cant be sitting there fighting it out, drawing attention to other players.
what i see from combat leak, the fight is so slow

And BR need unique mechanic too:

• Fortnite got building
• apex got hero system and fast movement
• pubg got realistic weapon system
• warzone got missions, loadout and gulag
• OTG got apex and warzone mechanics.
  so what would ILV BR got that can make it unique?

[sudden locust]

After playing off the grind I feel illuvium is way off from a competitive BR imo. I fear labs doesn't have the time or money to build a BR that would rival those already in the space.

[sudden locust]

We rip off Halo and give our suits abilities. Since 343 refuse to do a BR there is a gap in the market for a Halo style one

[languid nova]

yea we do have an extensive list of weapons, suits and illuvials.
make it fast paced combat and it's gold

[hasty citrus]

True

[tidal gate]

Maybe to address the slow-paced combat, we can have a different system where we call on different Illuvials to perform a short, special attack instead of standing there auto attacking the whole time. I'm thinking like Marvel vs Capcom fighter games where you call out your team mates to perform an attack or to combo off of your preceding attacks. That might work better for a fast-paced fps deathmatch type game

Or if anyone has seen Zenless Zone Zero, some kind of combat mechanic for swapping would make fast-paced combat more likely to work.

[languid nova]

yea maybe we can bring up to 3 illuvials, and use their omega abilities with a cooldown.
just like OTG limbs system

[languid nova]

what if we either we swap the illuvials by defeating them or looting shards containing illuvials

[tidal gate]

I'm not sure if OTG already does this, but another way to set Illuvium BR apart is if we had a modified, powered up version of an Illuvial omega if certain conditions are met. An example could be like if an enemy player is stunned in the last 3 seconds, summoning Axodon also causes its shield to deal x amount of damage/second to surrounding opponents in a radius

That way you aren't just spamming abilities, but also gives more gameplay options if you plan or react to situations better

[plucky vortex]

The company that made Minecraft.

[plucky vortex]

Yes, because they hire other people to do the work.

[solar abyss]

When will you make a proposal in line with IIP-44? The Community has supported the idea, now to pull through and make this into something the council and team can get behind officially?

And then we can once more decide if this is actually a good idea based on concrete data

[high crystal]

I know this is not the next game the team is working on currently, so I am not sure adding this is beneficial. Would be nice to get a better understand of dev requirement I suppose

[civic trout]

Are games successful because their developers are experts or because the players are having fun?

Let me know if you need further adjustments!

[civic trout]

You keep repeating that it's a pivot too many times. Practically everything is already developed; the only things left to improve are latency and cheat control. You're making a big deal out of a small issue. And to add something more: The solution to your team's repetitive mechanics is PvP, which forces you to constantly change, or in the case of PvE, it would be regular updates of bosses. But PvP practically solves any boredom problem as long as abilities are regularly nerfed and buffed.

[echo dragon]

Hey, if you don't like the feedback, that's fine. One thing I've seen erode over the years is people being willing to give a critical opinion about ideas they believe won't work.

If the DAO feels that "just an idea" is the correct way to be deciding what game to develop next, with no market research done, with no mind to whether Labs has experience or desire to build in the genre, and thus far with no statement from Labs at all about whether they believe this to be a good idea, that's fine. That's the way this governance system works. Maybe you're correct and this isn't any appreciable amount of work. All the evidence I've seen suggests that adding complex multiplayer (FPS, large # of players in a game) is actually a LOT of work, and takes quite a bit of time to get right. Plenty of games out there you can reference to see how long swapping from single player to multiplayer takes. No Mans Sky took 2 years. Stardew Valley took 2.5 years for PC. Neither of those games are as demanding as an FPS in terms of how accurate calculations need to be or how often they need to be performed. I'd be happy to look at any examples you have to the contrary.

[slender cedar]

Someone from the team said, Arena / Gauntlet is more for competition and ow more a chilled place to farm ( in my view ideal with friends in mmorpg style) . I agree and I think before talking about a new gamemode, finish ow / arena and just use Zero for fuel and maybe gym. Its nice to come with new Ideas, but maybe this should be something to start to plan for 2027/2028, when the beta status is over from the other 3.5 Game modes. And frequently updates from it.

[solar abyss]

We arent even close to a Game design document as Scoriox first wants to hear from the devs on how much work they estimate this to be, which they can only do if there is a document outlining what should be created in the first place.

So as long as nobody writes up anything concrete, this is just some loose sand held together by good will but without future. 👍

[civic trout]

I don't know who can make you understand that an idea or a suggestion is precisely so the development team can visualize its possibilities and improve the game overall. Do you really think Scorix is some kind of god who orders the development team what to do from the feedback page?

[civic trout]

No one knows better than the development team what is needed. Do you really think that every idea must come with precise economic calculations and even computational workload estimates? What you're asking is that every idea we publish should be ready for the development team to execute, along with everything that entails. What you're saying implies that you have to be better than the design director and spend a lot of your money and time just to publish your ideas. This really doesn't make sense

[hallow hawk]

we have illuvials. we can do things like selecting class like Apex before going in, and say you choose Titanor, than in game you can have power bar for omega or whatever, when full, you can throw a shard, in which Titanor would appear and have some sort of defense/rune through the enemy and stun them etc. just throwing some things off top of my head

either way, going to a BR route with a 12 player lobby is a terrible idea. either do big lobby or dont do it at all and go with MOBA.

or find some build like mechanism like fortnite but instead of square build it will be Hex builds

all im saying is, if the excuse is we cant do this or that because this other way will be faster, than dont do it at all. If were only doing things because its faster, that means were focusing on the wrong path because of time. Rather not do it at all, and full focus what we have now.

[solar abyss]

If we are talking about an official new game specifically, I think the bar should be very high indeed. This is why we have IIP 44 as well. To showcase just what we expect from an official new game idea.

You have to realise that you would be asking Illuvium to make a team and spend year(s), thousands of hours and millions of dollars to develop the new game.

With the team pushing themselves to the limit every day, I would like to be able to give them a clear document of say 3-10 pages and only then ask them: "How long would you take to build this?" They can scan then through it quickly and give an estimate of how long it would take. You can only do this when the fundamental parts are thought out anyways.

I want to shield the team from half-assed attempts where someone didnt go out of their way to make something great themselves. The team is working hard and we dont need someone who didnt put in the expected amount of effort (Read IIP44) to give them directions.

Now if all we are doing here is just talk about something and have fun brainstorming, thats all good. I enjoy that myself. But we had multiple people confusing this with a potential new game proposal and even started asking founders to think about this carefully. (Possibly because it is an IMC member starting this conversation)
I just want to ensure those people that it would require a solid document as specified in IIP-44 for me to accept it (and I aim to convince the other ICC members to halt the process at our doorstep).

With that said, we can now brainstorm and have a healthy conversation about what features would be cool in a Battle Royale because designing games is great fun maybe the team goes through our chat whenever they are ready for a battle royale (2025?2028?), and incorporates some of the ideas we mentioned 👍

[hallow hawk]

Illuvium Royale 2069

[languid nova]

i remember aaron mentioned that they already developing an fps/shooter, i wonder if the team has done the process laid out in IIP 44 before deciding on this.
If combat, multiplayer and the shooter have already been in the works, then the BR can just be a new game mode just like combat.
we would only need a GFP

[languid nova]

we also have this in the roadmap

about BR

[civic trout]

Finally bro. Ty

[hazy zealot]

A Pokemon BR is actually a dope idea. If it has been done I haven’t heard about it

[high crystal]

Basically how I feel about it yep. Its not even cut and dry, there are infinite possibilities about how to approach such a strategy.

[hallow hawk]

exactly, these guys did everything i wanted to be done for illuvium, things ive said for almost 2 years.

i havent played their game, but im sure their BR is not some 10-12 player max lobby correct?

[high crystal]

It also had 340 people and took 5 years.

[hallow hawk]

okay so they didnt release a half-a** game

[high crystal]

The next few weeks will be interesting. I expect hackers to start running rampant soon, could drive the entire thing into the ground. Fingers crossed its fine.

[hallow hawk]

lemme see them fingers just to be sure its crossed.

https://tenor.com/view/toes-feet-middle-finger-gif-13979481

[high crystal]

Hahahah I am being serious, I love Off the Grid its insanely fun. And if Off the Grid is successful long-term, I will probably never ever boot up Apex Legends again.

[civic trout]

Those pirates who flood the network don't have transaction costs? Then that's the problem

[high crystal]

No I mean hacking in the game. Nothing will kill a games playerbase faster than hackers.

A hacker only needs to aimbot u 2 or 3 matches in a row before you uninstall permanently. Reputations can be deleted immediately.

[civic trout]

You're absolutely right about that. Have they mentioned what anti-cheat they'll use and its cost?

[high crystal]

You can see it uses Easy Anti-Cheat when you log into the game.

Apex Legends uses the same and has had issues in the past but seems to be mostly fine now?

I think the true answer to cheating is actually AI. The hard thing it seems is generally how overpreventative measures will negatively impact the game experience to a point that its no longer feasible. But I think AI might have an edge where it could be more like a person watching you play over your shoulder, rather than things built into the code slowing it down.

[languid nova]

OTG DAW

[molten quarry]

those numbers are what we all hoped Illuvium would have...

[tidal gate]

OTG success would finally prove against any arguments that "mainstream isn't ready for web3" and "it's too difficult to gain market share from MOBA/BR type games"

I'm really interested to hear what the devs think about OTG at this point

[hallow hawk]

its hard to hit those number without being in the top gaming genre/category and without the type of marketing done.

its a very very simple strategy. for as long as you have a decent game and its ready.
you get numerous top streamers to stream same day same time for week straight + and over 200k average in total

if your games good it will stick

[molten quarry]

well, there lies the problem... We don't have a good game. We have amazing assets and pretty environments. But we're missing an actual good game. And I don't think the arena is what's gonna carry us.

[hallow hawk]

gauntlet is fun and will be nice, but if you want to get in the millions of players, i believe having a sick Battle Royale shooter with the IP that we have, with big lobbies, will take this company to whole another level

[tidal gate]

The numbers don't lie, only a tiny fraction of eSports viewers are watching auto-battler tournaments

[languid nova]

yea, turns out web3 dev isnt ready for mainstream

[hazy zealot]

I miss when multiplayer games didn’t cater to professional gamers as much

[fossil solstice]

I like the idea and thought about a similar one. So the illuvial you catch join you and fight along your side to win? That´s cool. I would make this mode for free, no NFT generated during captures, and maybe giving away some NFT prize for the winner (ensuring good stats, or a holo, or a T4 that if you pay you can level up to T5...) Lots of possibilities.
What I would really like to see are instructions/commands to your illuvials. Like saying "defend this point" to your tanky, or "follow me and dodge" to a rogue. Dunno, in general, almost all the shooter type modes adding illuvials , not just battle royale, look really fun to me and would probably fit well with the lore (team deathmatch, search&destroy, capture the flag...)

[high crystal]

Yeah the idea is you wouldn't get any of the captured Illuvials as NFTs or anything.

But I think there's a world where the victor gets to choose 1 Illuvial caught by any player to take home with them or something.

[ionic spear]

Do i want this. Aw yeah. Do I think it should be done now? Not unless everything was already build for it.

But later game modes I’m 100% down. It would a COD/Fornite/pokemon/crypto monster hunter game lol

[plucky vortex]

Me too. What happened to the gamers that want to chill and enjoy the experience.
I know there were game mags before YouTube yet the standard of META makes most games boring now. It's impossible to play unless you follow it.
Even if you absolutely love the ravens and over the top visuals of your abilities, no one will play with you 😅

[hazy zealot]

Don’t get me wrong, I grew up on Cs 1.6 which had its toxicity and competitiveness, but at least good guns weren’t paywalled so whales could win

I think Battlebit Remastered did a good job of rewarding skill with tons of new weapons/outfits when you’d rank up.

So the more you play the better stuff you can add to your arsenal

[high crystal]

And Multiplayer Game Developers miss when they could charge money for them 😛

Have you noticed that games like Call of Duty aren't full pay to win, but Free to Play games are?

[high crystal]

I do miss it too tbh. Integrating ownership without ruining the non-ownership experience is very difficult. Once someone cracks that code its gonna be a big deal.

[hazy zealot]

And I pay for a good multiplayer game like Battlebit Remastered.

[high crystal]

Oh absolutely. But yeah imo normalising paying for games again is kinda key to fixing many of the live service issues

[hazy zealot]

I get the appeal to CoD, but I’ve found it lackluster. No way is it worth $60 or whatever they’re charging for a reskin of the last one.

True. I’d rather pay for a game that’s genuinely fun then get it free and get bored quickly

[high crystal]

Well CoD has always been quite interesting because it found a pretty perfect middleground. Warzone is essentially P2W but only up to the $60 limit of the CoD purchase.

I think Battlepass achieve a similar outcome but since they rotate out every month its got its own issues

[hazy zealot]

Aaron mentioned they’re working on a first person shooter currently?

[fossil solstice]

With 42 thumbs up will this idea move forward? Or it missed the train because it took too long?
I don't really understand how some ideas finish into IIP with just 25 positive reactions and others not with more

[thorny parrot]

Feedback ideas is just for Brainstorming and gathering sentiment. Nothing to do actually with governance

Anybody can craft a proposal whenever he likes and post it in #1126838877429182506 where it needs 25 upvotes in 14 days to get to a council voting.

[fossil solstice]

Thanks for the feedback. So with more than 25 upvotes here it would be logic to copy&paste the thread in #1126838877429182506 and expect similar result? Or the proposal needs to include significant extra work?

[thorny parrot]

Well in theory you could.
There are templates on how a proper proposal should Look Like. Those likely habe a higher Chance to get passend aswell.

This one is actually a bit special since it got outlined in previous iips what the process actually is for the Next game(Mode). Requires a Lot more than what is in the original Post.

Am on mobile right now, so it's a Big hustle to Find that Stuff, but i can Look it up for you when i'm back on desktop

[fossil solstice]

Nah, there is no need. I appreciate your answer.
I understand that these type of proposals involve a lot of work and may be a game changer. Council should focus on just one game mode and chose btw several options. I'm just pushing this one because I feel that multiplayer is being developped already without IIP from DAO about it, and I feel like I have no idea what is going on. Anyway, I wrote a question about it for next townhall.
And I get it, team has more vision and they are probably building the basic mode (aka testing illuvials OW combat etc), and that basic mode could evolve in a future. This is probably more a lack of communication and strategy agreed btw DAO and team

[thorny parrot]

Yea, there's a lot of research to do and data to work through to bring some game mode into discussion for being the next big thing for the IP.

Indeed would be a game changer, especially in the situation the DAO is in right now.
With a limited runway, it is either all hands on the games we have right now to polish them so far we can attract so many new players to have a steady revenue to pay developement.
or try to develop and launch another game while somehow improve the already existing games and attract enough new players before we runway is gone.

As there is no public info about a new game in developement i assume labs postponed the New Game IIP draft outlined in the roadmap.
It's really appreciated you taking part in such discussions and even providing questions to the townhall 🙂

[high crystal]

I guess I see it differently. The Illuvium Overworld is essentially complete and achieves what it does, the Illuvium Gauntlet is almost done, but will remain a work in progress until ranger etc is in.

Polishing the Overworld won't solve the game loop problems it has. Adding quests and progression won't just fix it, you need something to do as an end-game loop for those who don't like Arena. The shortest path is multiplayer related activities, either co-op or pvp.

I guess the line between new game mode, new game and game updates is super blurred, but I see something like a raid feature as a new game, since it won't be intrinsically linked to capturing Illuvials. But many might see it as an enhancement, or a new game mode.

[languid nova]

if the BR is in OW, it's a new game mode

[thorny parrot]

i agree,, ow fullfilled it's purpes long time ago, polishing to the state it is now or is going to be soon is/was a questionable priority.
Also agree with a PVP approach for a new game, which design phase should start pretty soon.
Gauntlet is in a good shape but i wouldn't say its almost done.

[high crystal]

I can see the idea of polishing the current Overworld. If you are making OW combat for any future products, you might as well include it in current Overworld, low lift and allows testing.

[high crystal]

As for design phase for new game, yeah they have a co-op type thing they are working on. Its worth noting that the current server infrastructure cannot handle any real time pvp yet, so going through co-op and then moving to pvp later makes sense too

[molten quarry]

why then not focus on multiplayer raids against leviathans? That is actually on the roadmap.

gradually launch a raid for each region with varying difficulties that reset weekly.
This is the kind of stuff we really need. Something that has a progression element to it, involves multiplayer and brings you back every week to try and get wtv rewards killing a Leviathan gives. These raids could have like 2 different difficulties, one for 10 man raids and other for 25+ man raids. Just like WoW raids.

IMO this is one of the layers we're missing and it would achieve the feeling of progression and guild gameplay, as killing these would require significant strategy and co-operation.
I can see these raids rewarding something like non-tradable leviathan essences that when infused into an illuvial it can give it some sort of perk. These would really make some illuvials special and increase the attachment players have with them.

[molten quarry]

an idea for these leviathan essences could be for example instead of the studio releasing illuvial variants with new sets (which I think is a bad idea), we could instead have illuvial variants only if that illuvial has a leviathan essence fused into it.

[fossil solstice]

That's why I feel it should be a consensus between community, council and team. I guess it will come in a future, but I liked the idea of this thread and I think all the brainstorming should be channeled through Council, then upvoted, then presented and discussed to the Team through IIP discussion, then voted by Council.
But should't be something generic like "yeah ok develop a battle royal". Community should be aware of Team limitations, team vision, etc so the voting should go after several council discussions about scope, capabilities, timing, etc.
Rn a new game mode is not in the near horizon, ok. But I would expect this kind of exchanges prior showing in a roadmap "Battle Royal for Q2 2025!" Or something like that

[high crystal]

Not sure exactly when raid type features are coming, but I think it is a higher priority than something like Overworld PvP of any kind.

[civic rune]

I worry if this is the consensus view.

Overworld is poor, it's not essentially complete at all.

Polishing overworld will absolutely solve a lot of issues we have. You have to understand that just because there's 3 games, doesn't mean the gameplay loop has to go across those 3 games. They can have a degree of separation between them.

If you gave me an Overworld with a cool storyline that has a genuine purpose, like Pokemon Yellow, where I progress from region to region, levelling up my pokemon to battle bosses, enemies and random people, collecting items and all culminating in one final purpose, like the Pokemon league, overworld play would absolutely blow up, way higher than off the grid. The end-game loop in this is the end of the storyline arc for that season. Then you move onto a new storyline. You don't need blockchain for that.

The payoff is then not because people are simply capturing to play leviathan (some whales yes), but because are were playing a fantastic standalone game. Leviathan is a blockahain bonus.

You can have a purely overworld gameplay loop.

But the beuaty of blockchain is you can then have an additional loop where people take illuvials into levaithan, or your illuvials from overworld = a skin in TFT.

Off the Grid is a standalone game with a gameplay loop within that one game that is fun.

As you say, gauntlet is essentially complete, with leviathan and ranked (f2p), which is great.

They just need to spend 6-12 months developing a storyline in OW and then re-launch it.