Zero Feedback after couple weeks of playing

[slate blade]

This is my very personal opinion about the state of Zero. I own and play all kind of plots, T1-T4, balanced plots, unbalanced plots and give my best to make it an objective feedback with a subjective touch of what i like to see, as always.
At no point is my intention to diminish the work the few zero devs have done, I'm sure they are working hard to debug and improve Zero and we love them for that. I rather focus on things i think should be improved, than applaud all the good stuff already done.(And there’s a lot of good stuff 🙂 )There also might be improvements planned or already in development for specific feedback, however I still put that in here to mirror how I feel about the state of Zero right now.

Appologies for the textwall, i wanted to add some context and not just 1 word bulletpoints.

General feedback

• On the Desktop version I can't fully zoom out, it would be nice to have the possibility.
• On the mobile version it would be nice to zoom in more, so i can still place buildings and build paths properly on a smartphone without fat fingering all the time 😄
• More frequent patches would be welcomed, especially hotfixes to game breaking bugs. (That not only applies to Zero, but to Arena/OW as well)
• General info about how systems work, what exactly does this building do, what are the success rates, what does get affected from path bonus, how does blueprints work etc. would be nice to have ingame.
• Statements/updates about missed deadlines or features in development would be appreciated. For example what state the feature is in or what else can be done because we couldn’t finish it. (Looking at the missed compensations and deadline- estimations outlined in IIP-54 for example.)

Scan + research

• Limiting the amount of buildings and attaching fuel cost to scanning and researching changed a lot in the whole science system. Tier 1/2 land, originally planned to be the land to buy to focus on research now barely can afford it, while high tier land can max out the science economy with not much space needed. The end product (skins) got a lot more expensive than it was originally planned, making it even more difficult to keep up with cosmetics out of beyond. It also deleted the only element sink there was. (besides the tiny bit fuel extractors consume)
  -> i don't think this is the direction this system should have gone, super curious about the reasons to attach fuel cost and if there are intentions to make lowtier the BP factories again or we move forward as it is.
• The overshot of success rate on scans could have potentially wrecked the first set, with launch rusher already collected 100+ different BD 2 months into set1. Would be interesting to see data on how many lands are close to having all biodata already. With that, potential monopolies on high tier blueprints is likely not possible anymore which diminish the “lottery” feeling of hitting the jackpot and make good profits out of skins.

Fuel production

• Haven’t done spreadsheets yet, since a lot is changing or can be changed in this early phase. There might be a feedback post to that in the near future.

Data banks

• Efficiency increase delivered from data banks is a dead feature since there are power stations everywhere and support more than enough efficiency.
• Limitation of Data goes against the collection spirit Illuvium has and should have in all game modes.
  → I recommend making the Data storage Infinite, add structure limit cap 1 and add a small bonus increase in research success rate the higher the level of a databank

Value of space

• Value of space is highly unbalanced at the moment between the different tiers of land. Atm the only thing to fill space is fuel converters. 1 converter delivers 6% of the output of an extractor. This means on a T1 1 converter equals 6% of the total fuel output, but the higher the tier is, the less impact converters have compared to the total fuel output.
  → I guess this won’t be solved until there are more different buildings implemented with possibilities to offer other services than just fuel sales and Blueprints which lead to a converter spam.

Structure limitations

• Since Beta build, we have max cap on almost all structure lines like converters, scanners, databanks, material labs. This limits the freedom of building, makes differences between plots smaller and opens the door to a direction kind of like pathed building for example “great you successfully built your first scanner, now build your material lab at this position” which makes every city-builder boring to play and feels more like a brainless clicker.
  → Eliminate all structure limitations except for special buildings like ZPT or a Marketplace and similar. Let people build what they want, where they want and how many they want.

Max structure cap

• Max structure cap of 202 buildings is too small, i still have space left to build something but I am limited to the cap. While it might be true that everyone is in this situation, a bad feeling about missing out does arise.
  → increase it slightly, at least on max level so one can build the full plot as he likes.

Efficiency System

• There shouldn’t be thresholds to be met for all buildings, for example max passive output of a converter is at 136% and every additional efficiency up to 150% doesn’t grant a benefit. Every 1% more should result in more output.
  → Without thinking too much about it, I guess a fuel split similar to a share split with an increase in production/cost numbers across all games would be a viable option to discuss to make it possible.
  → Further down the road when there are multiple more new structures implemented, there might be also valuable to have talks about changes to the efficiency system in general.

Power system

• Not intuitive at the moment, but might be because there are bugs here and there related to power.
  → Would love to see a change to a power-grid model, where you have to build wires (below paths?) to connect other buildings to the power grid and you don’t have to spam power stations nearby every production structure

Paths

• I guess they do what they should, decrease activity time for every connected building.
  → would like to see this built out more (like efficiency and power system), for example you have to connect certain buildings with paths, like if an activity needs hydrogen, you need to have a path connecting that structure with a hydrogen storage.

ingame available data/info

• So many info missing ingame which should be there, i know devs are working on it, so i won’t expand too much on that, but basically what is a blueprint, effective succesrate of scans with their actual efficiency, structure descriptions, how do pathing system or powersystem work etc. (short video animations could help explain certain topics really easy.)
• An overview window similar to the activities tab about different eco systems would be nice to have. For example, where I see a list of all fuel Extractors/converters with their output/efficiency/pathbonus summed up to a total output of all 3 fuel in 24h. Or a sciency tab where you see when you found biodata/blueprints/facts and how often you had fails in scanning and researching etc.
  → UI for sure has to be added or altered to provide such data in a pleasing way, but providing this data is in my opinion in a highly complex economical city-builder absolutely crucial, so one has the ability to make informed choices based on data and not just feelings.

Power stations

• It just feels kind of not natural having to have 50% of all buildings being one class.
  → Rework the whole path/efficiency/powersystem.For example; Make a powergrid so you don’t have to spam the building, delivering power to buildings with upgraded paths and you have to direct where you want deliver how much power, make efficiency a research/ability tree researched in a specific single building or multiple buildings where one has to build one for each class, like 1 for converters, 1 for extractors, 1 for matlabs etc. Just a few examples, there are literally dozens of possibilities to make those 3 systems way more interesting than they are now.

FEX

• more visible orderbook would be appreciated.
• I like the bonus system. However, improvements to how the information is provided need to be done, otherwise it’s confusing for the majority of the consumers.
• I like to see live charts of the 3 different fuels, similar to charts we know from tokens/shares
• I also like to see a chart of the own sales, with additional info provided so one can see in one glimpse how much fuel he sold, how much fuel he has in store over all plots right now etc.

Future implementations

Skins

• Soon there should be the minting feature for Blueprints available. With that, the whole collection of all skins should be available at 3 places, in Zero, on homepage and in Overworld. So all 3 parties participating (Landowner, skin buyer, skin crafter) in that economy can watch at the whole collection and pick and choose what he either wants to research, buy or craft.

Megacities

• Are there additional bonuses for megacities, maybe even already designed for future implementations like podarium or training grounds?. So far, with the delay of them, the aspect of early advantage with sharing storage/buildings/resources got eliminated, the additional space one gets when recycling buildings like storage, EW, QF is minimal especially for high tiers (see above “Value of space“ ). With the overshot of BD success in the beginning right after launch, a shared BD pool also offers mut much and also less and less advantage the more time goes by until implemented.
• Will the path bonus cap be increased? In like could a megacity stack the 20% possible path bonus per plot?

Questions to councils/devs

• What was the reasoning behind adding fuel cost to scan/research and are there considerations to lower or eliminate them completely?
• What about holo statues and the marketplace? Are they in development or did they get trashed?
• Is the fuel crate (compensation out of IIP-54) still going to be distributed?
• How is the missed megacity-boost in fuel sales (Compensation out of IIP-54) going to be handled?
• What is the state of Blueprint minting and the Podarium features? (estimations of 6-8 weeks after launch according to IIP-54)
• Megacity development is still possible to be released in time and are there any additional benefits then the advertised features at the landsale? (estimations of 8-12 weeks after launch according to IIP-54)
• GDD of training grounds already in work?
• Possible to get multiple of the same biodata/blueprint? Or was that a bug?
• What other Blueprints are bugged (not possible to discover) besides the 2 drones?
• Will armor skins out of beyond be craftable onto all different armors ingame?
• What are the estimated cost to craft 1 skin, and are there cost differences depending on if it’s a drone skin or an armor skin and also between the tiers of the armor?

[pallid fiber]

I took my time to read all and i wasn't disapointed 🙂
I hope one day zero will look like you described

[torpid zenith]

Yes and yes again. All these things.
I own all 7 regions now in T1. I am nowhere close to developing blue prints. I don't see that on the horizon until I max out everything, which may be months away.
It also seems like the rewards received for upgrading to higher levels become less? This may be a bug, specifically the engineering lab.

All in all it feels punishing.
T1s feel like we only have one direction. It starts to feel like they are a sink and those that own T1s, especially if you only have one, which I see a lot of new players would most likely do at first.

When I look forward to the suggested plans I cannot see how it would be possible to fit anything else in.

Leading to feelings of ' why do I own this'

I understand the drive to go after whales or big money, yet I feel this is missing out on the many that may spend less.

Illuvum to me was a dream of decentralization and actually using ETH the way the creators of it intended.

Can we as a whole actually achieve that, or will we stick to the same system we are all trying to break free from.

Thanks @slate blade I think your feedback and suggestions are well thought out. I also agree there is a lot of awesomeness in the game, and I like to play it. There are definitely pain points though, along with the feeling T1s will always be nerfed by those who hold higher levels.

[tame surge]

Great feedback, although i do not believe for a second thats how you feel about the state of zero right now, orange really changed you

[slate blade]

Sad to hear that. I guess people change in general, i don't think me being a mod has changed me really, but who am i to judge that. I can guarantee you i'm still super passionate about Zero, trying to improve it with whatever tools i have as a simple community member and also this thread is about constructive feedback to the core systems we have in Zero and not about how i feel. 🙂
I know sentiment of zero is low, only thing missing for all-time low is probably some people ranting in Zero chat but i guess landowners are already over that phase, mirrored in falling land prices. I could talk for hours how bad the mainnet launch was in my personal experience with Zero... waiting for 2nd wallet support, missing the initial boost + massively exaggerated dropchances of BD and also owning a MC since landsale i'm probably in the minority of landowners having had the worst experience so far.

But emotions and finger pointing doesn't bring us any further.
The past 2 years we had a lot of that and it didn't help Zero at all.

[tame surge]

I have no doubt you are passionate about zero and your feedback has always been on point. I guess we disagree when you say pointing fingers dont bring as further, discontempt in my opinion should to be expressed because it encourages necessary changes. Also i dont think critisism is what held zero back these past 2 years. That was mainly a small team and poor management, in which we saw changes perhaps due to that critisism

[swift rover]

Good Evening Doctor! WOW!
This was a very fun read for me while i worked on my lands 😉

Thank you very much for sharing your feedback and comments - You pretty much covered anything one could share on the current state of the game. I am excited to see the other post you hinted at 😉

Now straight to it:

Questions to Councils

(Or at least which I believe involve Council)
(FYI - Shared this in Council Chambers)

• Is the fuel crate (compensation out of IIP-54) still going to be distributed?
  -** How is the missed megacity-boost in fuel sales (Compensation out of IIP-54) going to be handled?**
• What is the state of Blueprint minting and the Podarium features? (estimations of 6-8 weeks after launch according to IIP-54)
• Megacity development is still possible to be released in time and are there any additional benefits then the advertised features at the landsale? (estimations of 8-12 weeks after launch according to IIP-54)
• GDD of training grounds already in work?

**These I believe are for Labs to comment on. They ultimately make most decisions around these types of changes. **

• ~~What was the reasoning behind adding fuel cost to scan/research and are there considerations to lower or eliminate them completely? ~~
• What about holo statues and the marketplace? Are they in development or did they get trashed?
  - Possible to get multiple of the same biodata/blueprint? Or was that a bug?
  - What other Blueprints are bugged (not possible to discover) besides the 2 drones?
  - Will armor skins out of beyond be craftable onto all different armors ingame?
  - What are the estimated cost to craft 1 skin, and are there cost differences depending on if it’s a drone skin or an armor skin and also between the tiers of the armor? (This one I was on the fence since it really could "touch" Council, but it ties in the ecosystem/economics of the game)

[swift rover]

I was limited on space due to my "basic" discord 😉 so continuing here, just adding the verbiage that is referenced in the IIPs in relation to those questions:

• Is the fuel crate (compensation out of IIP-54) still going to be distributed?
  IIP-54 = “Fuel Crate Distribution: An additional Fuel Crate will be distributed before launch to ensure initial fuel availability.”

-** How is the missed megacity-boost in fuel sales (Compensation out of IIP-54) going to be handled?**
IIP-54 = “Mega Cities Delay: Mega Cities will follow approximately 8-12 weeks post-launch, with a compensatory fuel multiplier.”

• What is the state of Blueprint minting and the Podarium features? (estimations of 6-8 weeks after launch according to IIP-54)
  IIP-54 = “Blueprint and Dye Minting Delay: Blueprint minting and Podarium features will be available approximately 6-8 weeks post-launch.”

• Megacity development is still possible to be released in time and are there any additional benefits then the advertised features at the landsale? (estimations of 8-12 weeks after launch according to IIP-54)
  IIP-54 = “Mega Cities Delay: Mega Cities will follow approximately 8-12 weeks post-launch, with a compensatory fuel multiplier.”

• GDD of training grounds already in work?

1) Idea is added to the planned feature list. 
2) Labs will present a high-level GDD outlining their preferred implementation. This GDD is also subject to community review and upvoting.
“GFPs will have an open-ended timeline for implementation”```
There is no set timeline, but we can certainly make the request for update

And lastly, i believe this might tie in with your question, but if not, adding it:

• Was this fuel bonus system in effect for Mega City "qualified" land holders? I do not have a mega-city and personally do not know the answer.
  ```IIP-54 = Fuel Multiplier: To compensate for the delayed Mega City release, plots held by a single address that could be used to form a Mega City will receive a temporary boost to Fuel production: a 25% boost for plots that could form a 2x2 Mega City, and 50% for plots that could form a 3x3 Mega City. This boost is not cumulative and will be applied to Fuel sales in the Fuel Exchange, not in-game. The boost will be removed once the Mega City feature is released.``

[slate blade]

Cheers Ricky, thank you for taking the time to read that text wall 🙂
I thought about adding those quotes out of the IIP, but since it was already a ton of text and that stuff is easy to find i deleted those again.
Thanks for adding those 🙂

• Point two ** how is the missed megacity-boost in fuel sales (compensation out of IIP-54) going to be handled?** actually refers to the last point you mention with the Fuel Multiplier compensation for MC delay.

[slate blade]

any info on the questions?
Would be nice if ICC can look for info also on the dev questions.
Especially news on how to proceed with the violated IIP-54, but also some info about the Blueprints/skins.
Fuel spending for research at the moment without knowing which BD/BP's can't be found yet and how the skins look, is kinda like farming OW but it's not known which illuvial can't be found and we don't know the omega abilities yet.
<@&1107754780744487002> <@&814435151307866142>

[swift rover]

Hey Spoon!
I know you tagged all of us (appreciate it)
I shared this in our private council channel and will see what comes of it
I am sure one of us will get back to you soon 😀

[slate blade]

awesome 🙂
You doing a great job ricky 👍

[slate blade]

Any News?
<@&1107754780744487002> <@&814435151307866142>

[steady glade]

I dont have access to the questions document atm but I believe the questions are being submitted to labs tomorrow

[swift rover]

You do now 😀 realized the permissions were not correct during our meeting yesterday

F4E is correct, there is a new process that is being implemented and the first itteration is being submitted to Labs for comment 11:59:59PM UTC this Wednesday (and every Wednesday after)

Let's set a target for when it seems feasible to have something back to you. Since the information will be returned by Monday October 28th, I would say around here would be a good time to follow-up if you have not received an update:

<t:1730304000:F>

Now when we get answers direct from Labs to Council , how much we can relay will be another matter entirely...

Note: Most of these topics have been relayed as is, with minor variations/consolidstion per our discussions we had privately

[slate blade]

awesome, looking forward to it 🙂

[slate blade]

Any News?
<@&1107754780744487002> <@&814435151307866142>

[steady glade]

I don't see any responses in the document yet

[slate blade]

Ok

[steady glade]

Wait if the questions are from week 43 I see answers to questions in the document

[slate blade]

I don't have access to that. Questions got raised earlier.
In this thread 4 weeks ago. Some of them since launch in other chats

[livid patrol]

Holo statues did not get trashed, but they are not the current priority, the blueprint minting and onchain systems for it are the current priority.

Blueprint minting is now behind schedule, still hoping for mid November I believe, its before megacities, which is hopefully sometime before December.

Training grounds hasn't started development, a team member I believe is writing some docs for it now and trying to figure out the design specs, but sparingly, not currently the focus.

As for the costs to craft one skin, it has become complicated. The team is looking at the entire system as it was originally designed and working to create an updated document for the community to review, I believe this will be a big talking point of an upcoming town hall. I could discuss it here but it wouldn't do it justice.

[slate blade]

Might wana delete the Name and replace it with Team, so the Poor Guy not getting spammed.

[slate blade]

So it's a redesign of skin crafting but confident for mid November?

What about the other questions?

[livid patrol]

good call

[livid patrol]

I will look to the other questions next, apologies.

Honestly, idk how long said 'redesign' will take, In terms of general technical product, mid November should have been the case. But yeah idk what happens if its redesigned sorry. Also the redesign isn't a massive overhaul, and in some aspects might actually make development easier/faster.

[slate blade]

There's usuallyat least 2 weeks qa when done, right?
So thats already mid November if developement would be done now.

In a best case scenario

[livid patrol]

I guess you are right, hey @mental smelt I would love your input on Blueprints potential release date

[slate blade]

Is the MC Feature in developement or design stage?

[livid patrol]

Megacities are well into development, the team might correct me, but the delays are mostly due to processes with development environments rather than the feature itself. There have been some blockers with testing, this has been reworked over the past few months and is almost resolved, which should help a lot with everything, Arena and OW included.

Also Zero had some adjustments they had to fix on the backend code and all that, I can't speak on the technicals of that, but there were some underlying things that needed to be fixed, once thats complete (if it isn't already) it should prevent these sorts of delays in the future.

TLDR: Game Dev is hard and unpredictable, and well beyond my technical understanding at this point

Lets keep in mind any info I get, that I say here is essentially third hand, Team > Kieran > Council > My poor memory.

But this is how I remember the discussion

[slate blade]

you reffering to the code refactoring mentioned here from nick?

[urban inlet]

Thanks for bringing this back up Dr. Spoon. I have been wondering about a few of these things as well, in particular mega cities.

[mental smelt]

They're designing it now

[livid patrol]

I think so yep, its basically complete now I believe, but it caused some delays

[slate blade]

Is this a repeating process?
Sounded Like it was mostly done 14 months ago

[livid patrol]

We might be talking about a slightly different thing then

But no not a repeating process or anything. Again I am not the source of truth on this, just trying to help best I can remember

[slate blade]

ok

so what about the other questions?

[slate blade]

Summary of the QA

• What was the reasoning behind adding fuel cost to scan/research and are there considerations to lower or eliminate them completely?
  so people choose between focusing on supplying fuel and blueprint. no plan to eliminate, but theres plan to tweak the costs for lower tier plots

• What about holo statues and the marketplace? Are they in development or did they get trashed?
  holo statues not trashed but also no Priority. Marketplace no info

• Is the fuel crate (compensation out of IIP-54) still going to be distributed?
  question still open

• How is the missed megacity-boost in fuel sales (Compensation out of IIP-54) going to be handled?
  question still open

• What is the state of Blueprint minting and the Podarium features? (estimations of 6-8 weeks after launch according to IIP-54)
  No new timeline. Blueprint minting in design phase. (Podarium has been taken out of the skin cycle and will have other features not designed yet outlined in IIP-XX from perry and stuart)

• Megacity development is still possible to be released in time and are there any additional benefits then the advertised features at the landsale? (estimations of 8-12 weeks after launch according to IIP-54)
  MC well in developement and hopefully before december released

• GDD of training grounds already in work?
  not in works

~~- Possible to get multiple of the same biodata/blueprint? Or was that a bug?
Question still open. (Blueprint it's possible to get duplicates, migh aswell needs to be reconsidered since duplicates will have no value with the system outlined in IIP-XX from perry and stuart)
~~

• What other Blueprints are bugged (not possible to discover) besides the 2 drones?
  question still open

• Will armor skins out of beyond be craftable onto all different armors ingame?
  question still open

• What are the estimated cost to craft 1 skin, and are there cost differences depending on if it’s a drone skin or an armor skin and also between the tiers of the armor?
  As for the costs to craft one skin, it has become complicated. The team is looking at the entire system as it was originally designed and working to create an updated document for the community to review, I believe this will be a big talking point of an upcoming town hall. I could discuss it here but it wouldn't do it justice

[junior crest]

Thanks @slate blade for asking and @livid patrol for trying to answer. It seems like growing concerns and loss of confidence among landholders from what comes across my feed.

[livid patrol]

Its hard because beyond and arena rewards etc are such a pressing topic right now.

But I will bring land back into the discussion, that's my bad, it's a bit tiresome asking Kieran wen blueprints every week, but these other questions are great.

[versed yarrow]

Buddy, do we have a separate team at IZ, or am I not right? It looks like so slowly we're fixing bugs and making a few UI/UX improvements in the month. How many devs and front teams are on IZ?
For beyound and arena are we working IZ team mobile too etc?

I am working in game dav too so for me it is so slow and we haven't started gym yet. if we have 1 IOS/Android and 1 BE we will see new futures in 2026(

[livid patrol]

It is a separate team mostly, for IZ yes.

Gyms havent been started because the team is patching bugs and getting megacities and blueprints finished. Once those 2 features are done, its a whole different scenario.

[versed yarrow]

thx for clarification

[slate blade]

i just want to point out.

• It's the same questions i asked in OP 1 month ago.
• Asked again 2 weeks ago and pointed out i would love to see all question answered by council, since devs are likely busier.
• The questions about the violation of the IIP and how to proceed with that i regularly ask since like 2 weeks after launch, pinging both councils and kieran multiple times and even in dm's with some councils. (started with last epoch and proceeded with this epochs councils.)

This was at no point every week "when blueprints"

[versed yarrow]

i remember post in a tweet - that blueprints are ready in QA testing

1 month ago +-

[slate blade]

there was an IIP which is voted on council stage at this very moment, which changes the design of the skin crafting process but also how the blueprints will work.
This basically means blueprints will have or are at the moment in a redesign stage, which then has to be developped and after that tested.

[versed yarrow]

understand - thx for info

[slate blade]

My pleasure 🙂
Here's a link for the IIP

#1301940513288486922 message

[versed yarrow]

yeap with this changes stats i don't have time to investigate other topics)

[slate blade]

any news? <@&814435151307866142>

<@&1107754780744487002>

[azure harness]

I will say this about training grounds and megacities, and I know it won't be popular...and saying this as a major land owner. We need to fix the power & efficiency stuff before focusing on these larger features. Adding those items to a poor foundation (tech debt) is a problem we will pay for. My thought is focus on foundational items (too many damn power stations) and the blueprints before tackling the bigger stuff.

For blueprints specifically:

1. Finish the art work on them. I shouldn't be looking at placeholder images, give me some idea of what I have so I can get excited.
2. Provide stats on them. When I click a Biodata, tell me that it is 1 of 1203 so I can gauge rarity. This will gamify what research I do. Do the same for blueprints, help me get excited about rarity in game before minting by knowing who all I am competing with in the market place.
3. Go really crazy and provide a list of other users that have the same blueprint so more gamification can happen on skin production.

[junior crest]

Thanks for leading the way <@&814435151307866142>. We are counting on you...

[livid patrol]

Meeting tomorrow. Will do everything I can to push these qs

[slate blade]

I’d like to express some disappointment that my feedback post regarding the questions, but especially theviolated IIP still has not received a response, despite multiple pings. Given that the Council recently reduced its meeting schedule from 4 times a month to 3 according to the meeting notes (note that meanwhile icc almost doubled the meetings this epoch), it doesn’t seem that a high workload should be preventing a timely reply.

Furthermore, it’s concerning that a community member like myself has to push the Council to address and take action on a violated IIP. It raises questions about dedication of IMC or/and the efficiency and responsiveness of the current process set up for topics like that if a matter as critical as this can go unaddressed.

@swift rover mentioned a new process which got set up with a form where answers actually should be in from team, but now it sounds like the questions haven't even been raised on IMC level.
I would greatly appreciate it if the Council could clarify what steps it plans to take regarding this IIP but also outline how similar matters can be addressed more promptly in the future. ( again... It has been almost 4 months since the IIP got violated and at least 3 month since i regularly started pinging councils and writing in dm's with councils before i created the post and Implemented the questions into a QA 6 weeks ago and started pinging both councils weekly.)

[dusky hornet]

hi dr.spoon.
the icc has done a really great job preparing the form, submitting these questions and following up on team to answer.
these questions have been submitted weeks ago and has been answered (idk exactly when was answered). im currently outside, and ill give the answers in a few hours unless someone else can do it sooner.
as for the 2 outstanding items from the IIP, yes we will talk about it again on monday and hopefully come to a conclusion.
The IMC meeting schedule is not intended to be 3x per month. we aim to have weekly meeting.
if i remember correctly we had permissionless and this week we had scheduling issue due to daylight savings in the au and in the us.
the IMC meeting is a 2-hr meeting. We tend to listen from all of the imc members plus IMC liasion to represent the community, and then we make decisions. That's why it is important for all parties to be heard and scheduling issue can be a limiting factor

[dusky hornet]

we try to discuss as many topics as we can during the meeting while each of us give our opinion on the matter. as we can all see the meeting minutes are really packed with info.
we do apologize that these 2 items from the IIP have not been concluded

[livid patrol]

We have not reduced our meeting schedule. Things have been slightly messy with events like Permissionless, since the meeting can be somewhat wasteful without Kierans attendance.

But really we have had some awkward scheduling conflicts which will hopefully be resolved by this week, daylight savings messed everything up.

[dusky hornet]

• What was the reasoning behind adding fuel cost to scan/research and are there considerations to lower or eliminate them completely?
  so people choose between focusing on supplying fuel and blueprint. no plan to eliminate, but theres plan to tweak the costs for lower tier plots

• Will armor skins out of beyond be craftable onto all different armors ingame?
  Each line will. Eg Rhamphy skin applies to the Exosuit line of armour.

[slate blade]

Thank you Jaganite, for the update and for explaining the current situation. I appreciate the ICC’s work on preparing the form and submitting questions to the team, as well as the IMC’s plan to discuss the unresolved IIP issues in the next meeting.

However, I’d like to highlight that one of the Council’s core duties should be to uphold and enforce established proposals (policies/laws), and taking swift action following a violation is essential to maintain both trust and the integrity of our governance. In this case, almost four months have passed since the IIP violation, despite repeated follow ups. Preserving our proposals and acting on them should be a priority, and action should ideally have been taken immediately after the issue was identified.

Even if there were scheduling conflicts, no replacement or additional meetings were set up to make up for the missed meetings, which suggests that there is enough time in the three remaining meetings a month to address all critical topics. If this is indeed the case, it raises questions about why urgent matters like this IIP violation have been left unresolved.

Maybe a streamlined process for quickly addressing urgent proposal issues and consistent communication on progress (weekly uploads of meeting minutes) would greatly improve community trust and reduce the need for repeated follow ups.

Thank you again for your response, and I look forward to the outcome of the next meeting as well as updates on the remaining questions.

[slate blade]

maybe the questions was not well formulated.
Question is:

• Will armor skins not created out of Blueprintsbe craftable onto all different armors ingame? For example if i got the obereum armor from beyond, can i craft that skin on whatever armor line i like and also remove it again to craft it on another armor of my choice, or will it be restricted somehow?

[slate blade]

<@&814435151307866142> any news?

[mild tulip]

Hello fellow land holders and council members.
Three bits of feed back from me.
I would like to have the ability to change the colour of buildings or have the team set colours of building based on what type of building it is. I am having trouble locating buildings on each plot. Many of the buildings just look to similar and they are all the same colour.

Secondly the Oder in which my land plots are displayed in the menu screen where you select which plot to play shuffles.
I would like to be able to name each plot and set the order and fix them in place. I have 24 plots and this shuffling in very frustrating as I end up missing plots when I’m changing between them.

Lastly plants take too long to pull out. This is especially bad on t1 plots with only one builder. Just feels too punishing.

[fleet sun]

Hi Spoon. I think some of the council has replied to your questions so not sure which ones exactly you want updates on? Can you relist them?

If the question is on this:

Will armor skins not created out of Blueprintsbe craftable onto all different armors ingame? For example if i got the obereum armor from beyond, can i craft that skin on whatever armor line i like and also remove it again to craft it on another armor of my choice, or will it be restricted somehow?

Ill post this in the weekly update request with Labs and see if we can get a response.

[slate blade]

#1290736426861727844 message

[dusky hornet]

still waiting for the minutes to be approved

so we can discuss haha

[slate blade]

looking forward to it 🙂

[mental ermine]

great input, i highlighted this for the team.

[slate blade]

any news <@&814435151307866142> ?

[dusky hornet]

ill chase rich to uploade the minutes on monday

[dusky hornet]

uploaded

[late gale]

why is there no ez link for the meeting minutes?

[dusky hornet]

its well hidden
https://link.illuvium.io/CouncilMeetingMinutes

[slate blade]

yes, i've read them but i'm a bit confused, maybe you can clarify.

Fuel Crate compensation

• Council is considering dropping speed up credits instead of Fuel crates

• Council wants to avoid $1m in fuel being added into the system

• Perry's new proposal may convert speed ups into the new fuel type

• Council is concerned that landownerrs may have no need for credits

• Perry might connect speed ups in the blueprint minting process.

• in another meeting note the new fix prices could be aimed at 30% of top rail, so wouldn't it be more like 330K worth of fuel? How was this $1m being calcualted?

• There for sure are dead crates which will never be redeemed or sold. How many fuel crates of the last airdrop got redeemed already or are listed right now on the marketpalce?

• I guess this will take time to airdrop, and according to the meeting notes it sounds like a fix price is coming for sure, so it is more of the $1m liability to OG's than actually influencing the economy?

• With converting into speedups and speedups being converted to the new fuel type, which might be used in the new blueprint minting process, what is about all those landowners not active in science?

Missed Megacity-boost in fuel sales

• So there will just be an ingame fuel airdrop?
• What size?
• Council has no concerns here about the ingame economy?
• Any additional news meanwhile from the past 3 weeks?

** How will the Armour skins from Illuvium Beyond be treated**

• Can you elaborate on this?
• Sounds like you were talking about Zero skins and not Beyond skins, since you talking about BP's.
• What does the council mean with "Camo" ?

[junior crest]

my two cents: this is a real sentiment smasher for landholders. thanks @slate blade for finally getting us some feedback through the IMC minutes.

[slate blade]

Yea, not a bright future outlook for Zero according to the meeting minutes.

[junior crest]

the top "rail" for fuel is .0087?

[slate blade]

i guess top rail is:

should be somewhere mentioned in a proposal... don't have the time right now, but i can look it up later

[junior crest]

0.0036972...I was hoping Kieran's word of 50% or .0044 would be where it shock out initially.

[slate blade]

ah yea, now i remember.
There should have been an ICCP setting the fuel guardrail, which hasn't been done in that ICCP but it also didn't got approved to move forward to council voting. So it actually is not defined anywhere in a proposal as far as i'm aware.
Link to the ICCP i'm talking about:
#1262571796222185512 message

[junior crest]

Do you engage w/ Perry one to one?

it seems critical time to help him think through this matter from a landowners perspective and not make decisions in a vacuum. they have screwed so much up in the past.

[slate blade]

no i don't

[slate blade]

need to have people under nda to talk about that with so much stuff changing, so i wouldn't be much of a help

[dusky hornet]

ill try to answer the questions based on my personal opinion:
2nd airdrop

• we shouldnt airdrop more fuel because we have so much supply of fuel and lacking in demand. even if it's another $300k, the dao was only making about $50k/month of sales in fuel.
  we should find an alternative solution.
• i dnt know hw much fuel crate has been redeemed in qty and value. team need to comment on this maybe @dull hill or @main sequoia can assist.
• the fuel overhaul proposal is to fix the economy. but i do believe we have to settle the 2nd airdrop and MC bonus before we make the overhaul.
• we havent decided on the alternative airdrop. just as stated in the notes, landowners prob have maxed out their buildings and dnt need more speedups.

Mc bonus

• yes i think this is how the bonus system was intended.
• we followed up kieran and danny about this and they said the dev need to run the numbers
• we are concerned about the ingame economy. it is being dicussed every week and we are going to do a 2nd imc meeting this week to discuss the fuel overhaul. Hopefully we can move swiftly.

Armour skins

• sorry im not familiar with this maybe @livid patrol and @dull hill can help

[dusky hornet]

we will discuss this tonight.

[junior crest]

Thanks for the feedback. Major point of concern: the in-game transactions should be settled in fuel as has always been planned. Transaction in-game commerce in ETH/USDC, calculating fuel generation, and reconciling with monthly/quarterly distribution will be an absolute nightmare that the team has no capacity to keep up with based on precedent. They have never hit deadlines on disbursements. I plead for the IMC not to consent to this change. (referencing November IMC minutes).

[violet meteor]

You scare me for illuvium zero it seems that the game is in preparation but it's been 2 years since the game was released😭

[dusky hornet]

i believe theres no easy solution to our current situation, but tough decisions have to be made

yes, ingame action should be done in fuel.
however, we will always have sales made in eth or even fiat. for example, promo d1sk in eth and iz speedups in fiat (apple/google store)

which will require a reconciliation

[junior crest]

understood. I hope the IMC/ICC will guard the fuel in-game purchases if that should be raised again, I am here to do whatever I can to help. I can tell you the 'landholder caucus' will want a regime change if that were to change.

[slate blade]

2nd airdrop

• so it's not about the amount, it's more of a "give out nothing linked to revenue at all" ?
• Would definetly be nice to see the numbers, i wouldn't be surprised if we talking about very low numbers.
• Yea, the problem with the violated IIP should be fixed.
• Yes, handing out speedup tokens shouldn't be the solution. Fuel crates were supposed to give value in all subsystems since fuel should be used everywhere. Speedup tokens on the other hand can just be used in Zero, and their value decreased daily after launch. In my personal pov with my 16 landplots those tokens would have no value at all anymore.

MC bonus

• Wasn't supposed to have it ingame available, but rather being added when selling fuel if i remember right. But that's not really a big difference.
• So more info to come, would be nice if you or another council could keep us updated in here.

leftover Question
What about the bugged Blueprints? (actually Blueprints and Biodata but forgot to mention BD i just saw.)
Do we know which are bugged at the moment? Can there be a list published?

[dusky hornet]

[dusky hornet]

2nd airdrop

• the alternative airdrop would still foregoing revenue. Because the alternative should have value. but it shouldnt be fuel due to the current highly oversupply of fuel.

MC bonus

• im prob wrong here, and it's in eth instead. i cant remember exactly what was said maybe <@&814435151307866142> or @eternal pewter can help

Leftover question
Yes scoriox asked about this and kieran said hes gonna check on it

[slate blade]

2nd airdrop

• Well with the current economy it's probably just a drop in the ocean considering all data it's like 50k airdrop minus all the not redeemed crates. Until everything is prepared to actually drop it it's probably more of a 30K airdrop.
• With the future economy, the amount of fuel on the market place wouldn't influence the price and with that the revenue, right?

MC bonus

• See picture below, what was written in the IIP. They specifically tied it to sales so MC plots couldn't build up faster (as they actually should have been able to) which wouldn't be a problem now since most plots are built out or almost built out.

Leftover question
Ok, poke him and tell him about Biodata aswell... seems like 30% of all biodata is missing.

[dusky hornet]

ahh yes so it should mean 25% and 50% more eth on the sales made

the bonus eth should be transfered to the wallet

[slate blade]

that's not what it says but idc tbh either one works

[mental smelt]

That's actually a good point

Although, it still doesn't make sense, the crates were meant to be fixed to the actual value you received, so Im not sure thats a good compromise

I'll talk to Perry and come back to you. TLDR, we want to give the landholders the value they were promised, without cannibalising their revenue

[slate blade]

i mean, it's not like there couldn't be a replacement, but the value should hold and i guess one could get creative there with having all the knowledge about the upcoming stuff.
I guess most landowners are invested in other parts of the universe, so you could hand out disks and give airdrop mutliplier or whatever.
But speed up tokens have 0 value right now.

[mental smelt]

Totally, we have also floated the idea of an exclusive cosmetic drop just for landholders.

[slate blade]

that likely won't be well received
Almost has to be the same for everyone, so ton of suplly of 1 asset.
Gona be the same as with the alpha blueprints or a lynx illuvitar

[tame surge]

@slate blade @dusky hornet your dedication is much appreciated. Thanks, it's nice to see some people still care about zero

[dusky hornet]

literally i fall asleep thinking what would dr.spoon and filow ask me tomorrow

i think about these two more than my wife

[tame surge]

They do not ask the easy questions do they?

[dusky hornet]

never

[junior crest]

We appreciate it and encourage you to measure 2-4 times before cutting! Maybe a working group of landholders with 10+ plots would be a good source of feedback to Perry and Labs? I suggested such a group with the IIP written for Land Disclosures around the mainnet launch, and I think it's much more relevant today.

[slate blade]

funny... just wanted to prepare follow up questions while we waiting for the remaining to be answered or solved 😄

[dusky hornet]

[livid patrol]

Yeah when I floated the idea of cosmetics for the ranger and cosmetic buildings and such thats what the other council members told me :P. And you are right, the loss of scarcity feels underwhelming. So it was floated to do emote d1sks? Or something similar idk.

[mild tulip]

Mega city holders are probably the most under valued group at present.
No information or details has left me feeling pretty underwhelmed and way over exposed financially

[slate blade]

cosmetics are always cool to get, but they need to be either gamified or paid.
Handing them out via airdrop is not how to make them desirable. 🙂

In this case, people thought they get directly ingame currency to buy whatever they want.
A direct replace is therefore almost impossible, if you airdrop assets which has ingame/marketplace value like a emote/illuvitar disk or whatever, the value of the airdrop has to exceed the value what was promised depending on it's flexibility level because the receiver is less "flexible" with what he get to not be somehow disappointed. For example, zero tokens are super inflexible, you can just use them in zero... if you hand out disks, you can either open them or sell them and therefore more flexible than the speedup tokens... if you hand out ingame currency it's the most flexible since you can buy anything in the ip or sell it on the marketplace.

So finding something is difficult and setting a price value is tough.
Do you increase value and make the people super happy?
Or do you keep or decrease the value and people get disappointed but not too much since they get at least something.

[torpid zenith]

Hey 👋🏼, I see your point here as there are landholders with massive holdings they would receive a lot, if it was tied to value.
It's a hard balance to insure large holders receive value, saturating the market. for those investment without the little guys benifits being effectively worthless to the large amounts.
Case in point, extra fuel and blueprints with no caps or consideration how this affects those with less.

[cedar heart]

👍

[slate blade]

Any News <@&814435151307866142> ?

[dusky hornet]

We talked about mc, blueprint and the outstanding payment again this week.

still waiting for the minutes to be approved

[slate blade]

what about the missing Bio/Blueprint- data?

[slate blade]

can't say anything without minutes being approved?

[livid patrol]

Kieran doesn't know I don't think. @plush vault do you know if there is a fix for missing blueprint data in IZ coming?

[dusky hornet]

yup

need the imc to approve the minutes

[slate blade]

That's kind of a comunication Killer.
So if i feel there is an important topic to discuss with imc, Like the violated IIP, I have to ask questions and than wait a month to get answers until minutes are approved to ask follow up questions and wait another month?

[dusky hornet]

we are under NDA. what i can do is to follow up the members to give their approval sooner.

[slate blade]

overhaul that process in general... maybe discuss the last 5 minutes of the meeting what info can be made public or whatever.
But doing it like that is basically no communication at all... not many people care about that stuff a month later, or in some cases might be even too late to discuss the topics further.

take the airdrop seson for example... duration of it is one month and i need to wait 1 month until i get my first answers 😄

[dusky hornet]

i agree that we need faster communication.
however, some considerations:

• the notes are much more detailed
• need each imc to read, comment and approve

[slate blade]

why does that take a month?

[dusky hornet]

we are bound by the NDA, any info that we release to the public need to be agreed upon

[slate blade]

well... speechless...

i guess come back to you then in january

[dusky hornet]

ill suggest to have a deadline for the minutes to be approved and uploadd

[slate blade]

48h

i would do it directly after meeting... but give some time for those who need a break

[dusky hornet]

the meeting is usually 2 hours. my brain is baked after the meeting

[slate blade]

in general i feel if you discussed a topic in imc which is actually pretty important, you should be able to discuss that stuff with your customers directly after meeting

everything else is innefficient burocracy bs

[dusky hornet]

i agree that we should get rid of the nda

what we have is a council system, which means every member has equal power/right therefore we need to vote before we can do something

[tame surge]

Spoons perseverance.. I gave up about a year ago, like many others, but he's still fighting. What a legend

[junior crest]

The purpose of minutes is to align communication and ownership of action. Should be able to "read in minute" the doc and not a bulleted transcription of the dialogue. Any amateur owner/operator should know this.

[dusky hornet]

the "minutes" in meeting minutes is not about time to read, but rather minuta scriptura

which may translate to "small writings"

the purpose of our meeting minutes is to document the topics being discussed, the decisions made, considerations, etc
im bias but scoriox has done a really great job with the minutes

it gives way more transparency if compared to previous epochs

unless the community prefer a 3-liners minutes

[junior crest]

Agreed the Epoch's minutes and mentality are exponentially better than the past. Thanks for what you gents are doing...maybe we can catch fire in 2025.

[dusky hornet]

[torpid zenith]

You could use an AI note taker during meetings and will collate everything for you in the format you want. Then it's a simple process of checking it.

Stop working harder and work smarter.

[dusky hornet]

👍

[jade otter]

all the info will be at the AI profider tho so might not be that great together with NDA lol

[dusky hornet]

👆

[severe pelican]

the will but they also have to provide a service of information protection otherwise noone would trust their service

[swift rover]

Once the meeting concludes, typically the meeting minutes should be shared within 24 to 48 hours to have them reviewed by fellow council members

Another 24 to 48 hours for this step to be completed - sometimes it takes longer if there is back and forth comments/ammendments, which is typically rewording topics/notes and having them purified (to remove things that could be under NDA)

After final approval, meeting notes should be ready to be send to GCM for final sharing in the google drive with the community. All this should be under 1 week, at a maximum 1.5 weeks. Of course, these will be exceptions that can occur, but this is how I personally see the meeting minutes being handled.

[slate blade]

i read meeting minutes since almost 2 years... it's a monthly publishing at best, sometimes it takes longer.

[swift rover]

We trying to do better this epoch 🙂
Looks like we fine-tuned the process and moving forward should be better (atleast at ICC level)
We live, we learn, we do better and we implement internal processes that this Council (& hopefully future councils) will follow and adopt

[torpid zenith]

I don't think anyone without access can view it though.
People I know who use OpenAi teams often have NDA information within the system.
Do you mean it can't be edited?

[jade otter]

I'm not sure, was just a heads up in general

[torpid zenith]

✨

[junior crest]

@slate blade could we create a checklist of your requests in a shareable platform such as Notion or Google Sheets and supply notifications to the IMC/ICC periodically (weekly). My gut tells me "out of sight, out of mind" sabotages the success of the Team delivering on what has been promised to Landholders under best case scenario. @dusky hornet @swift rover thanks for you engagement on this subject that matters to use who invested. Wish other IMC/ICC members could become more proactive in trying to get S$$$ done on this front.

[dusky hornet]

the ICC created a form for the council to ask questions and get answers weekly

[swift rover]

Relax it's handled 😆🤣

(Update: just to be clear this is a joke based on your name!)

All seriousness = will revisit when I wake up 🙂

[junior crest]

the admins need the same form as they have a tendency to develop selective amnesia about things put in writing and stated on the AMA

[swift rover]

We have an internal document we submit to Labs weekly to get answers on various topics

There is also a document that is being worked on to track proposals. Some might get outdated and need updating vs. Others that have "promises"/"deliverables" that need to be met - your comment falls in this category

[swift rover]

AMAs = "ideas" / "plans"
These could also be individual ideas 💡 but I have learnt they are not guaranteed 😞

However, things in writting: proposals, plans, updates = are more concrete! These equally need a written counterpart if they deviate or change (IMO)

[junior crest]

common sense...may your tribe increase in this ILV world of pure imagination

[junior crest]

@swift rover some metric like this I would let serve as the north star for prioritizing resource allocations moving forward. Down 35x since Aug 24. I know Arena hopes to stimulate demand and I will be monitoring this as a leading indicator for any vibrancy returning. Wow, if VC invests in March with these stats and the ILV token trend they will be stepping WAY out on the risk curve.

[swift rover]

Supply heavily outweigh demand... pricing will be reflective of this

New measures coming into place based on Kieran's post will hopefully help make a nice turnaround

[whole elm]

Which one Kieran news you mean?

A) 2 months of threats of "autoruns" and "temporarily" shutting down OW?
B) Nerf stats by 80-95%?
C) Main mod free Arena, Leviathan limited support

Yes, this will really boost demand and sales will skyrocket by 10000000000000000%

Sales were driven by top stats, which currently have zero interest (4x50 HOLO Scarab 7 for USD bought today)
Players are leaving and quitting the game instead of coming.
Because too much uncertainty is introduced, what has already been created is deleted, there is no roadmap for 2025 etc etc...

[tame surge]

I left because it was boring and not making me money. I would stay for either of those

[whole elm]

and I thought games were played for fun, pleasure and relaxation 🙂

[tame surge]

Yeah that's why I mentioned the "boring" part. I would come back if the game is actually fun. I would also come back if it made me profit. And I think the fact that I would strive to try and make as much as possible will be fun per se

[slate blade]

Any news about actions for the violated IIP? <@&814435151307866142>
We are getting close to the 6 months mark 🙂

[dusky hornet]

just, soon

[junior crest]

Dis you post some of this on the Jan AMA thread? Maybe pointless?

[slate blade]

I did not.
I doubt they wana talk about violated proposals AT the very first ama in 2025. (I myself wouldn't Like to See that i feel 😄 )
I hope it is more or less about detailed Outlook of 2025, Like until march we get Arena ready, improvements will be Bug and crash-free, Change of weapon system, new augement lines implemented etc. We also bring multiplayer into OW included features Like xyz and Change to fuel System to (Inserat Detailed Info about new economics ... Than from march in we focus on xyz.
You know, some positive Stuff we can Look forward to actually getting hyped and deconfuse people about what is going on, what's the endgoal of 2025, is the vision still the Same or we doing just an nft-tft this year or whatever. 🙂

[tame surge]

Since there is no sort of law enforcement in this governance scheme, I suggest violations like this one are made public so that people are aware when the next elections come.

[dusky hornet]

wht kind of enforcement.
basically the dao is waiting for labs to deliver.

[slate blade]

Deliver what? 🙃

[dusky hornet]

the outstanding items

[slate blade]

so there's no change of the IIP and what written down there will be delivered just in a delayed manner?

[dusky hornet]

ur talking about the 2nd fuel crate airdrop?

or mc bonus?

[slate blade]

both

[dusky hornet]

outstanding payment to landowners : still waiting for dev

2nd fuel crate airdrop : waiting to see how the fuel overhaul

is it a violation of an IIP? yes, it is. The IIP says 2nd fuel crate airdrop before launch

[slate blade]

you refferring to the MC-bonus on fuel sales until MC being implemented with the "outstanding payment to landowners", or the other IIP with the outstanding revenue distribution?

[dusky hornet]

in referring to everything owed to landowners including the mc bonus

[slate blade]

so...
MC-bonus on fuel sales:

• How is it going to be calculated and executed?

2nd fuel crate airdrop:

• No solution yet. Waiting to see how the proposed new fuel system from labs turns out.

Missed revenue distributions:

• How is it going to be calculated and executed?

[dusky hornet]

we were not informed about the technical details on how the team will do it. id assume the calculation is following the IIP

[slate blade]

so the overall answer to the violated IIP's is "we don't know what and when labs will deliver but they will deliver something soon"?

[dusky hornet]

this refers to mc bonus and missed revenue distribution questions

as for fuel overhaul, we are closely working with labs. so we do know the details, we just dnt know when

[slate blade]

i'll take that as a yes 🙂

[junior crest]

thanks jag for doing what you can. any feedback on beyond sales for landholders?

[urban inlet]

Yes, appreciate the communication Jag.

[tame surge]

Jag you are my favourite council member but you don't know what or when labs is going to deliver. And rules have been broken months ago with no repercussion on anyone. That's all

[dusky hornet]

it should follow the calculation laid out in ICCP-17

[dusky hornet]

i agree

fuel crate airdrop was something i disagreed with the previous council, and then they promised a second one

now it fell to the current council and we are taking responsibility

[tame surge]

Please don't take it personal, if anything there's less weight on you than any other council member

[dusky hornet]

frankly, imo another $1m just doesnt make sense when we dnt make that much

[tame surge]

I agree, I don't even care about a crate. This to me is more like proof of how much iips mean

[dusky hornet]

none taken.
i go to bed every night with outstanding items like this

[tame surge]

Take it easy, most appreciate you around here

[slate blade]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-fate-source-meme-trust-me-gif-25112135

[dusky hornet]

haha yea man it's frustrating

to wait

[dusky hornet]

i see them as debt.
1st crate airdrop $1m
2nd crate airdrop $1m
silv2 $??m

revenue: ....

makes zero business sense

but yea promise has been made

[slate blade]

i know how you see them... we went over it in this thread already 🙂

[slate blade]

the reason actually was to compensate landholders but most importantly kick of the fuel sales.
Idk why they went with buffing early game in zero at launch instead

[tame surge]

Its essentially cutting an extra slice of the cake to deliver to a certain group of people who invested long time ago. Imo we need to be full eco mode and focus on making tha cake bigger, at this point it doesn't even matter how we divide it

[junior crest]

you see it correctly, and those who invested in land bailed out previous debt owed to ILV holders. to date, it has a lot of resemblance to the fiat cartel that the web3 degens claim they want to get away from.

[late gale]

what does that have to do with anything? Did anyone who invested in land did so to cover for ILV's debt or to speculate on the assets valuation? Everyone did it at their own fault and risk, no one is owed anything. This is why I can't stand zero chat nowadays. Just a flood of tears from all the crying from everyone that invested way more than they could afford to lose.

[slate blade]

seems you haven't been in zero chat for a long time 🙂

[late gale]

yep I haven't

[slate blade]

maybe get more in there and less in #💰〕token to get away from the tears 😛

[late gale]

I love to drink bear tears from token chat though

but yeah I'll try check zero, see if it's really better...

[late gale]

why not just revert the fuel nerf? It's not like it matters if the price goes any lower at this point. And at least it would give more gameplay time per plot, and would show the team recognized their mistake.

[swift rover]

Fuel nerf mainly affects the zero players when it comes to land progression

The oversupply on the market is also a concern 😟

Everything is finding that perfect balance 👌

[late gale]

sure but the balance should be found in order to try and achieve the best possible gameplay experience not to try to manipulate prices and be market makers when the DAO can't even buy or sell fuel at their will and the only levers it has it to pull is to manipulate production levels altering the game experience. Really couldn't ask for a worse economic game design.

this all started with not being able to make fuel an ERC-20 token, disrespecting an IIP, removing the ability to trade and buy/sell at will. Then we went and worsen even more the situation by trying to manipulate the market prices and killing what was left of the free market spirit in it, wrecking all possible speculation on price at that time. And now that we have a broken economy, pissed landowners and no end-game arena to use our illuvials we have to ask ourselves if it's really that surprising that we're at the lowest playerbase count we've ever had.

with the fuel level pre nerf at least my T4 was giving me 3 S3 runs. Let's not even mention we need to also spend fuel to cure shards, fuse illuvials and craft gear. But at least it was something. Imagine paying thousands of $ for land and still having to buy fuel to play cause your land doesn't even produce enough to accomodate for your gameplay, how would you feel?

[dusky hornet]

let's wait for the fuel overhaul and see

[late gale]

an overhaul should only come with the MMO. I see no reason to do a system overhaul now.

[swift rover]

Systems need to be fixed/resolved sooner than later

The longer things remain "broken" the more pissed off people get.

Don't forget the MMO Lite is a long ways away. Balancing and maintenance should be ongoing

[late gale]

that's why "maintenance" to fix something doesn't mean the same thing as an "overhaul". And thus why I suggested reverting the fuel nerf.