#Enable Beyond Disk Fragments in Overworld

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grave bone
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Quite a simple one here.

Enable Beyond disk fragments in Overworld.
10 required to forge 1 disk.
Accessible to all paid runs.

This would offer an excellent cross promotional opportunity and bring awareness to Beyond without any intrusive marketing techniques. Players will literally be discovering Beyond for themselves, whilst also gaining additional value for each run.
Any increase in return for the player will also help to incentivise more fuel spend, ultimately making this a win win for Beyond and Overworld.

The exact drop rates of fragments could be tweaked to align with economic goals//targets.

Any feedback good or bad welcomed.

rough meadow
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Love this!

One question, do you think acquiring the fragments should consume ergon energy or not?

twin locust
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I thought these would be from the ores - rarity like a resplendent shard
But i would recommend a cap of "X" number per run depending on the stage you are playing
Max per fun: Stage 1 = 1; Stage 2 = 2; Stage 3 = 3
Or sum like that 😉
Sounds like a type of guaranteed "cash back" option

__Edit: __

  • How many fragments would be good for a d1sk exchange? A) Standard B) Mega
  • Since everything is "hexagonal" , personally feel divisible by **6 ** is a good number, so 12 fragements for Standard and maybe 36 for Mega (or whatever multiplier makes sense comparative to pricing)
  • Eligible for only regular season d1sks? (excludes promotions?) But could have "promotional fragments as cross-promotion event 😉
ebon fable
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Is 10 fragments a random number or a hard value that the team needs to work with?

Are disk fragments only obtainable from deposits?

I personally would like to see them be a random drop at the end of a run. We have this sequence checker but it doesnt do anything now with the obelisks all found. Could be nice to now still do something there. No obelisk item bút a fragment from the beyond! 😄

#

Also yeah i tend to be thinking about that... but if you say: idc how they are implemented. That is totally fine as well 😄 leaves even more room for the team to work on it

grave bone
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Thanks for all of your responses.

One question, do you think acquiring the fragments should consume ergon energy or not?

Open to hear more pros/cons on this one. Nothing is determined. All open to discussion.

Is 10 fragments a random number or a hard value that the team needs to work with?

10 fragments is just a random number, it seems a reasonable starting point.

All details around this concept are open to debate. The purpose of the thread is to float the concept and to gather as much feedback as possible so that as a collective we can determine not only of we want to implement this but also the best way to do that 👍 .

Personally whether they are "mined" using energy or "bonus" Obelisk item at the end of the run, both are great implementations. Would love to hear more feedback from others regarding this in terms of potential limitations/negative impacts.

ebon fable
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I think it may become a general given feature and people may get upset if the freebies are taken away at all 😄

twin locust
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Hundreds or thousands of "Free d1sks" stocked up for the next wave might not go over so well

ebon fable
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"You cant buy them so now play overworld to get more" sounds like a terrible marketing stunt for all beyond buyers. But pushing the team to from now on have the next wave ready, alongside the partner sale and such is also rather demanding.

Just things to consider. Not necessarily on you Alexa to come with the answers 😄

#

I imagine we should only have these up for Stage 1-3 runs either? T0 would be botted for free shards?

Or will we add a T0 beyond d1sk yet? 👀 depends on how rare we want to make the Holo T0 with stage 3 backgrounds... or make that pack to only contain non-holo

grave bone
# ebon fable What wave do you think the fragments should be of? And in between waves we had a...

The fragment could literally be 1/10th of a disk. Gain 10 minimum to forge into 1 complete disk. The 10 fragments that are forged would then be burnt, 1 complete disk minted.

And in between waves we had a loong time of nothing now. How do you propose fragments would work in the meantime?

If i'm not mistaken the intent is to run Beyond waves seamlessly back to back without down time in the future. If that is the case this shouldn't be an issue.
Obviously if there was down time I believe there would have to be a pause in the bonus fragments until the next wave resumes.

Hundreds or thousands of "Free d1sks" stocked up for the next wave might not go over so well

Good point, but they are not entirely free as people are buying fuel to get them, runners are paying into the ecosystem. The ultimate intent is to have them purchase more disks and fuel in the future, making the return for the DAO positive.
In theory they are free but it's just marketing at the end of the day.
The figures absolutely need to be projected and monitored closely, that goes without saying.
Based on drop rates, this could be estimated out beforehand with access to the right figures/statistics.

ebon fable
# grave bone The fragment could literally be 1/10th of a disk. Gain 10 minimum to forge into ...

If you mint one with the fragments would you get personal goal points and community goal points? Since you mint them and actually buy a d1sk through playing, it would make sense no?

And would you prefer to get Standard d1sks from your shards or the mega ones?
Or would it be smart to take on the 1/6~ ratio to hand in your shards, similar to the price difference between standard and mega?

Ill go to bed for now and brainstorm more questions Pho_Haha Atlas_Love great initiative though!

grave bone
# ebon fable If you mint one with the fragments would you get personal goal points and commun...

If you mint one with the fragments would you get personal goal points and community goal points? Since you mint them and actually buy a d1sk through playing, it would make sense no?

If you are referring to Beyond stretch goals, personally I don't think they should count towards these goals.
Only disks purchased directly from the DAO should count towards the stretch goals.
As always, I would love to hear feedback regarding this.

And would you prefer to get Standard d1sks from your shards or the mega ones?
Or would it be smart to take on the 1/6~ ratio to hand in your shards, similar to the price difference between standard and mega?

I believe fragments of both disks should be available, but like you say, if a mega disk is 10x the value of a standard disk for example, the drop rates should be significantly lower on the mega disk fragments to reflect this.

primal path
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I like these ideas that interconnect illuvium games. Would love to see more throughout the ecosystem

grave bone
# twin locust I thought these would be from the ores - rarity like a resplendent shard But i w...

__Edit: __

  • How many fragments would be good for a d1sk exchange? A) Standard B) Mega
  • Since everything is "hexagonal" , personally feel divisible by **6 ** is a good number, so 12 fragements for Standard and maybe 36 for Mega (or whatever multiplier makes sense comparative to pricing)

I really like the idea.
I do believe that if we go with 12 fragments for a standard disk, we could also go with the same 12 fragments for a mega disk, as the supply can be managed via drop rates of both items, mega disk fragments would be much harder to locate/mine or receive as reward bonus, depending on how it is integrated. As an example, for every 10 standard disk fragments discovered, you would likely have only received 1 mega disk fragment.

  • Eligible for only regular season d1sks? (excludes promotions?) But could have "promotional fragments as cross-promotion event 😉

I think promo disk fragments should be offered in exactly the same format, if it proves successful.

Edit -

I have had a rethink on the promo disk fragments and I don't think it would be possible to offer these due to the specific deals that are in place with the partners.
Maybe it would be possible further down the line once we can demonstrate that providing fragments in OW leads to an increase in disk sales for Beyond.
Although the partner wont receive a direct commission on that particular disk mint from OW, ultimately if the cross promotion is successful it will lead to higher disk sales/commissions for the DAO and partner through implementing the strategy.
With carefully executed integration and tracking this will be possible to demonstrate with real figures.

true iron
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I like it.

While Beyond may have been intended to be outside and “beyond” the in-game story it would not be too difficult to imagine rangers or other characters making art based on the freaky illuvials they are encountering. Or really who would even care about where these things came from?

unreal swift
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I love the idea, and think it would be beneficial to hear from the team on their opinion of how this proposal might be most feasible. Some top of mind questions:

  1. What wave disk should this correspond to? The ongoing one (what if there is no ongoing wave like now)?
  2. Should the shards be tradable or just the D1sk once 10 pieces are found?
  3. How will players find the shards, and should finding a D1sk shard consume ergon energy?
exotic aspen
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Sounds good although I would suggest we tend towards more fragments rather than fewer.

If we throw some arbitrary numbers lets say a megadisk is $50 and there are 10 fragments that means each one is $5. If a run is say 50c you would need to make them very rare or it will kill d1sk value (at one in every 10 runs this would mean EV of each run is 50c just from the d1sk ... but realistically it would just mean d1sk price tanks).

With a smaller fragments (i.e. 50 or 100 to make a d1sk) you get a lot more flexibility and can give people something to work towards and/or trade.

Obviously you could just make them rare, 1 in 100 runs or something, but it feels like it would be a lot cooler if they were somewhat common.

If you get a standard fragment every run or two, and you are at 42/ 50 it's going to be hard not to do a few more runs just to get that d1sk.

Maybe in that time you get 15/50 mega fragments too... then it gets hard to say no to the possibility of the mega disk....

sudden osprey
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I dont mind to include these disks in the beyond stretch goal with properly adjusted rarity to drop the disk fragment. It encourages users to play more OW games and try to get all the fragment to achieve the disks.

hollow trellis
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And a good way to implement Alpha Standards & MEGA ones should also be implemented, like there would be a max amount of Alpha in OW to craft on possible and you would also find like "Infused D1sks Fr4gments" that would make like with 25 of these, an Alpha Standard OR MEGA if you choose to fuel it with Hyperion for example, it would craft a MEGA D1sk instead of making a "free Alpha Standard one", that would be a good idea personaly 😉

And that would give the possibility to increase value on Alphas too btw

It would be very more likely impossible to get apart of buying it or finding it but what could make the difference would be like a tag applied to it, for example: Found in OW or Bought on Beyond Marketplace or even Crafted with Hyperion within OW, sum like that

sour crater
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An addition to this awesome idea:

Fragments can be used to open a d1sk from ANY season (excluding partnerships, event d1sks, and current season d1sks), this gives utility to assets collecting dust and would encourage people to connect with Illuvium Beyond.
Combine 'X' Illuvitars or 'X' accessories to be broken down into a fragment (this self balances the value of the fragments and d1sks being given away), and gives extra utility to an overabundance of non desirable illuvitars (similar to Aarons idea of burning illuvials in the future to create dust).

To keep development for this idea cheap and fast to integrate, the fragments should be given at the end of each run as a non tradeable currency that would appear in your inventory (not taking up any inventory slots, just show the #), like @twin locust said, 1 d1sk fragment for s1, 2 for s2, and 3 for s3.

Finally, d1sks should be redeemable from Sanctum Mesa, where the user can setup/change their PFP without leaving the game (In-game Illuvidex at Sanctum Mesa would go hard af), and redemption shouldn't count for any type of points, milestones, or airdrops.

This agile, efficient idea absolutely rocks, we just have to find the numbers that make sense for all the mentioned value exchanges. Shoutout @grave bone , I hope you start putting your ideas out there more. Very well spoken and easy to understand.

pearl zinc
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Idea 1

Daily Key: win (#1) in gauntlet to get a key. Max 1 per day. Use the key along with X fragments to open a disk.

Idea2:

Limit the obtainable disks each season and you can reroll 3 frags trying to get the frag of another one.

ebon fable
# sour crater An addition to this awesome idea: Fragments can be used to open a d1sk from ANY...

I am against inflating other wave assets during a particular wave:
If you allow X illuvitar and accessory to be burnt for a new wave 1 or 2 d1sk while those waves are over, you demolish the current balance and rarity of assets. You would not be able to determine the value of your rare assets. Therefore, the fragments should always be based on the currently active wave.

Fragments per run:
While 1 fragment for S1, 2 for S2 and 3 for S3 may sound logical, the fuel cost increases by 3x per stage run. So 1-3-9 fragments may be a more balanced approach. Otherwise you push people towards stage 1 to get relatively more fragments per $ spent.

exotic aspen
#

We can encourage new players without totally wrecking OGs.

ebon fable
# pearl zinc Idea 1 Daily Key: win (#1) in gauntlet to get a key. Max 1 per day. Use the ke...

I really like the idea around adding a use-case in the arena. We saw this issue at the start of the game where players ónly went into overworld and lacked interest in Arena. Lets have each game interact to engage all parties.

A more easy but worse choice could be to just give fragments upon an arena win as well. [Issue being that they are then free... oof]
An activation key therefore sounds good 👍

fresh ether
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i like this idea.

To expand a bit on it, i would like to see a illuvial burning mechanism added to it.
It was mentioned in some talks before that it would be possible to burn illuvials to receive ''dust'' (i believe it was called that; not 100% sure).
Why not use this dust in addition to fragments to mint the disks (amount of dust received from illuvial tier/stage burned can be determined by team)?
To encourage illuvial burning maybe set it like:

(numbers are just placeholders)
to receive 1x standard disk:
- 100 shards
or
- 50 shards + 100 dust

to receive 1x mega disk
- 1000 shards
or
- 500 shards +1000 dust

This will encourage trade, OW excursions and capturing of illuvials (fuel spent) give another illuvial sink, increase rarity of assets etc.

sudden osprey
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It is ok to provide disk credits that can be used to purchase any existing disks or purchase new disk for current wave or you can use it to purchase next wave disk

rough meadow
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Here’s my vision of this:

I agree with Johnny that the number of fragments should be higher. I would use the same fragments to create either a standard d1sk or a mega d1sk. The difference between them would be the number of fragments required. If we consider their price difference, making a mega d1sk would require 4x the number of fragments as a standard d1sk. Maybe something like 25 fragments for a standard d1sk and 100 fragments for a mega d1sk.

Regarding the waves, it has been mentioned that set 2 supposedly won’t be released in waves, so for now, we would only be able to collect fragments from the current wave while it’s active.

I would not include these constructed d1sks in the individual stretch goals, so we maintain the value of purchasing d1sks.

I would show the location of the fragments if you pay Solon to scan the region, which would increase the value of the scan feature.

Collecting the fragments would be similar to capturing morphopods, where it doesn’t consume ergon energy, encouraging a deeper exploration of the map.

twin locust
# rough meadow Here’s my vision of this: I agree with Johnny that the number of fragments shou...

To show the location it would be similar to the MEGA DEPOSITS....

Not sure how they would show if these unless they are mini deposits and then will confuse people with the random deposit is showing

Unless you mean to have a special deposit specific for the D1sk Fragments?

The downside to "deeper exploration of the map":

More time spent in one run = Less Runs entered = less $$$ for the DAO

Just saying it is not always best to encourage more time spent in one run... but also it can be countered that people's daily funds are limited and there is benefit to extend there potential "singular" daily run

rough meadow
twin locust
rough meadow
brave pagoda
#

reasonable

ionic light
ebon fable
sour crater
# exotic aspen We can encourage new players without totally wrecking OGs.

Your idea takes money from the DAO, mine gives it more. People won't buy wave 3 d1sks like normal if they can farm them in OW. If you only allow d1sks from previous seasons, then it makes Illuvium Beyond much more competitive, drives a tons of $$$ into OW and Beyond, while keeping the current season exclusive to spending directly on the website. If the DAO makes more money, then OG's get more redivs, sometimes you have to give a little to make a lot.

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Also, they won't be "Alpha" d1sks", they'll just be normal, maybe we can give them a special marking that show how they were obtained idk, maybe "DF" for d1sk fragments instead of (A) for alpha or no marking at all.

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It's pretty boring and lame if we can only get the current season, I would'nt be motivated to spend money in the OW for that, I'd just buy the d1sks outright. It's ONLY exciting if you can get old seasons. Players that missed out, and are just getting onboarded, will want access to older d1sks. They will have to spend a ton of money to get 1 d1sk, so I really dont see the problem.

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For the record, I'm an OG, and it's clear as day to me that OG greed will be the #1 factor that kills this game. It's disturbing how often good ideas are turned down or over complicated with "investor safeguards" because people are looking their bags instead of whats best to make the game fun, the ironic paradox is, that if you make your game better the return on investment will come organically and in abundance.

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All the additions to Alexas idea are so completely unrealistic. It's way too much dev work, if you guys can't figure out how to keep the additions and clarifications as simple and lightweight as mine were, then the idea is dead in the water. Illuviums focus needs to be on core features and gameplay loops, multiplayer, overworld combat, leaderboards, new regions, illuvidex integration, balancing, mega cities, onboarding, payment processing, general bug fixes, new art, new assets, questing, npcs, ai, and a million other things that are going to take another year alone, Illuviums plate is already overfilled, so if you can't keep the idea simple then don't expect to see it in the next 18 months.

exotic aspen
# sour crater Your idea takes money from the DAO, mine gives it more. People won't buy wave 3 ...

I highly doubt people who aren't interested in Overworld are suddenly going to start doing hundreds of runs on the chance of some old d1sks. You can still buy them on the marketplace right now; it's not like this change is going to drive some crazy Overworld fever.

If you are someone who plays Overworld then getting either new or old d1sk fragments might be interesting and might get you in to Beyond. Those already in to Beyond and not in to Overworld will just purchase D1sks as normal.

Allowing old d1sks to be found is a much bigger deal because it reverses previously immutable things. It turns a lightweight easy to add thing in to a big decision.

Unlike you I'm not going to overreact and say it can't work either way, of course it can, I just think it works about the same either way, so why break promises of rarity.

exotic aspen
sour crater
# exotic aspen I highly doubt people who aren't interested in Overworld are suddenly going to s...

It's less about getting people interested in Overworld, and more about getting people interested in beyond. Imagine you're a new player and you get a few d1sks and are maybe close to completing a sub collection, odds are they'd either continue spending money in overworld, or more likely start buying old d1sks and illuvitars off the secondary markets. Whales have tons of extra inventory that they'd like sold and it would be a double win to increase distribution through secondary market sales so people are more "bought in". Once again, give a little and gain a lot, I think the restrictions are short sighted of the massive potential this idea has. Expecting people to only compete in beyond by playing the secondary market just doesn't seem like great marketing for brand new players. I'm trying to think of the future here, not the past.

exotic aspen
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But this is my point, I don't think old or new D1sks have any difference in getting people interested in Beyond. Therefore go with the less controversial option.

sour crater
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The more people into beyond with competitive collections, the more sales the team will get on new waves also, so another positive factor.

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Sorry if you think my response was an overreaction, I'm just trying to be blunt here because I want to see the idea be light work for the devs and have the most beneficial outcome for new people entering the ecosystem. I'm in the top 100 #70 something btw.

exotic aspen
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Average players aren't going to compete in Beyond master leaderboard unless you make d1sks so common that all Illuvitars are next to worthless. Getting off topic but the solution to this is enhancements to the album that give other ways to play and compete. Lots of these have been discussed over the years, but include things like sub-leaderboards for different parts of the collection, weekly special competitions, BitB, etc.

exotic aspen
sour crater
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Fair enough, I've said about everything I want to say here. I just cant stand to see great ideas so overcomplicated that they never come to fruitiion, im very much coming at this with the "keep it simple stupid" concept while also trying to maximize revenue for the team since we are quickly running out of runway. If the game runs out of runway we will wish we prioritized better player incentives instead of better investor incentive's, if that makes sense.

exotic aspen
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I don't think many investors are invested in Beyond. Just degen players who like to collect stuff ... like me!

sour crater
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I just want new players to feel as good as possible having a chance to compete with us OG's in all aspects of the game, but you make a lot of great points to consider, thanks.

exotic aspen
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I mean for me, as long as there's the hope that things become valuable I will never get out. I might sell some crazy high thing every now and again, but I'll probably put most if not all of it back in to D1sks.

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But I think ensuring value is left in the system is vital to keeping people like me around. If we race to bottom to attract players its a longer term strategy than "keep investors happy", but its not a sustainable solution, eventually stuff hits bottom, and people see no value in hanging around. I cant count the number of CCGs I've been mad about, that die.

mild kraken
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Any thoughts on having an Overworld-exclusive Beyond set that never expires (limitless mints)? I'm thinking 15 possible illuvitars and maybe you have to go into the Beyond marketplace/ecosystem to get accessories.

  1. That way people buying disks don't feel diluted in their collection.
  2. It still markets/exposes OW players to the beyond ecosystem.
  3. It still adds value to spending fuel for OW runs.
  4. It might drive Beyond players into the OW who otherwise are not big on catching illuvials but who want the Beyond cards that must be earned in game.
  5. The design work put into these cards add value moving forward for years to come.
  6. Rock shooting bots for Disk fragments are disincentivized as the OW illuvitar set will continuously drop as supply increases.
exotic aspen
sour crater
# exotic aspen But I think ensuring value is left in the system is vital to keeping people like...

I agree, which is why d1sks shouldn't be quick and easy to get, we need to find a balance where players spend X money and get a d1sk in return that is beneficial to the dao as a whole, and like I said, I say this as someone who has 0 ilv staked and is on the top 100 leaderboard in beyond, i think if we got a nice revenue increase it would come in part from new players and benefit the ecosystem as a whole, driving increased value to all assets across the board

exotic aspen
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Anyway I've got to go do some work. @sour crater sorry if I was too quick to judge. Ultimately I still stand by my assertion that its simpler, less controversial, and probably as effective, to make fragments for current set. Thus I'd much prefer we stick with that.