last proposal for burn + stats

[steady rapids]

My last proposal for burn to stats

You burn illuvials to get souls. The better the stage  the more souls you get, like the master shard.
The souls have tiers, so you need to burn t4 illuvials to get t4 souls.
Use the souls + a gemstone + solon to get an attribute stone of a specific affinity and a specific stat. (the affinity is given by the gem, the stat is by choice)
Use the attribute stone to enhance a stage 3 illuvial by 10% of that stat.
Only stage 3 can be enhanced and only by the amount of tiers they have. So a t4 can only be enhanced 4 times.

Advantages:

• burn mechanism that we all desire
• more use case for solon, gems and bad illuvials
• reward the hard work (grinding), not only luck
• can be adjusted to increase or decrease efficiency like.the master shard
• you can only enhance the times of the tier so you can't get all perfect illuvials ( if you have a tier 1 you can only increase one stat by 10%)
• higher tier illuvials get some love
• you can only enhance stage 3's so you still have to capture good stat illuvials in order to maximise the stats for the stage 3 because you have limited awakenings

Example of how it works:
I have a scoriox with 50% health, 50% resistances, 50% movement speed, and 0% for everything else

I burn tier 4 illuvials: mjolls, jotuns, flares, other scoriox to get enough t4 souls
I use the souls + a fire gem + solon to get a fire attribute stone
I enhance the omega power of the scoriox by 10%
Now i have 3 more awakenings left
This way i don't get a perfect 300% stat illuvial  and i have to think what stats i should increase next
Maybe its my first scoriox and i have a bond with it and i want it to be a little bit better

Thank you for attention and please leave a like for the art

[sweet terrace]

I'd prefer a general limit of 3 enhancements per Illuvial.

I'd also prefer this to be a little more grindy instead of whaly. By that I mean, instead of high solon cost it may have a higher gemstone cost, since the latter is kinda accumulating over time on every active account (yet it can still be whaled via market).

Other tha that, neat idea.

[steady rapids]

I put the enhancement in relation with tiers becase personally i dont use tier 5 much and i feel like they are no better than lower tiers
This way they would have that extra sparkle they are missing and deserve
And about the costs, the team can adjust those as needed

[analog coral]

I would prefer no stat increases of any kind. Just make people go into the wild to get the perfect stats. Much better overall. Make them use fuel to find better stat illuvials. People will simply stop capturing crap stat illuvials that don't sell.

That said, I would like to see an Illuvial burn mechanic if stats improvements/rerolling are added. I want perfect stats to be incredibly rare and difficult to get, so imo this idea does not work as it is written.

Instead, I think you need a copy of an INDENTICAL TYPE OF SOUL. So only a T5 Rhampyre can create a T5 Stat Soul specifically for a Rhampyre. So to increase your Rhampyre stat 10%, you need to burn an entire Stage 3 Rhampyre to get the soul.

Burn Rhampy --> Upgrade Rhampy
Burn Rhampite --> Upgrade Rhampite
Burn Rhampyre --> Upgrade Rhampyre.

[steady rapids]

You can still capture bad stat illuvials to use them for souls 🤷‍♂️
And you can increase the costs to still make it more efficient to hunt them, but maybe you want your first dark ophisto to not have 0% omega power anymore and brag with it on leviathan
And i said to only enhance stage 3's so you can not enhance stage 1, fuse them, and enhance them again
This way you limit the max stats you can get

[analog coral]

I feel you, but I don't think you should be able to upgrade a Rhampyre by burning a far cheaper Squizz, etc. I also would rather have Stage 1 upgrade Stage 1, Stage 2 upgrade Stage 2, Stage 3 upgrade Stage 3.

[steady rapids]

How about 30 squizzes? 🤔
Lower stage = way less souls

[exotic fern]

Cap on upgrades is good. Rerolls good also. Look to diablo loot, material, and blacksmith mechanics, or most any other asian mmorpg, especially if p2w. They know how to balance inc from whales and not making upgrades op

[sweet terrace]

I disagree, buying or capturing any T5 is still quite costly.

[analog coral]

I'm sure there is way to make it work, but I would keep each line of soul dust/stat improvement thing--specific to each line of illuvials.

[analog coral]

Some T5's are much more popular than others, so the floor prices are not the same.

[steady rapids]

Sure, great idea also
The details can be adjusted

[sweet terrace]

Price will adjusz once market is swept up for stats increasing

[exotic fern]

Keep the focus on how to max revenue for ilv and not how to change your bad illuvials into max value

[sweet terrace]

Balancing the nonwhale experience is upping the revenue. If a game is too hard p2w you wont get casuals in

[steady rapids]

Yes, but as people want some features, maybe we also shoud discuss them

[steady rapids]

Leviathan will be a whale only experience if grinders dont get a chance

[analog coral]

I think the best way to max revenue is to make Illuvium super fun to play. Make it addicting.

That's why I don't like the idea of stat improvement. Drive engagement by forcing them to hunt for great/perfect stats in the wild. More fun than burning illuvials to improve them.

But I agree that adding a burn mechanic of some kind would be good! Not sure what the best way to do that is though

[honest verge]

You're on the right track @steady rapids, it just needs to be fleshed out a bit further.

[analog coral]

Equation for Max Revenue = The most fun possible formed by an excellent and addictingly fun gameloop, such as hunting for and finding the best illuvials possible, knowing that their stats are set in stone and unchangable.

[sweet terrace]

You have a very biased opinion tho.
No offence, but this Bias is why were low on players isnt it?
We need casuals to grow into shrimps over time. If the game only caters whales, you’ll only get whales, and there arent too many of those.

[steady rapids]

The limitations of this + the costs would still make hunting a better choice

Imagine the world first ramphyre. It has crappy stats. A +50% wont change much, but at least it can have some use cases

[analog coral]

Not sure what you think my bias is? I would love to be able to improve my almost perfect illuvials and make them perfect. But I am just trying to look out for the good of the game. I am 100% in favor of making the game approachable and more affordable for all players. Costs related to making the game more approachable is largely related to fuel costs and making all illuvials available for PvP immediately (like in the new Leviathan gauntlet mode, which is how I would recommend doing it for Arena as well).

I just like the idea of the stats being set in stone. If the team is determined to add it, then just make sure it is done well and fairly--and doens't destroy the existing economy.

[steady rapids]

I respect your opinion and apreciate your feedback 🙏
As your prefference is to have the stats unchangeable, i would like to adjust them a bit
And no matter what the team will choose, i hope to be for the better of the game

[analog coral]

I appreciate the effort you put into the post! Good potential system with some tweaks outlined above--if stat improvement is added.

[sweet terrace]

Thats why it should be grindy. Having five T5 fire gemstones is quite pricy.
Considering that youd also have to burn a T5 Illivial.

Its still paid progress, just not as obvious since you can use leftover material.

Market prices would also adjust due to demand.

The current either whale or get rekt approach is quite unsatisfying considering that arena is the "main game".

[steady rapids]

Thank you!
We all want the same thing: for illuvium to make it

[sweet terrace]

And we shouldnt forget that Illuvium also earns revenue from market sells.

A few million one dollar trades also generate revenue.

[steady rapids]

This way bad stat illuvials will also sell for their souls
Now, i just ignore t5's in my runs if they have bad stats because they dont even sell

[analog coral]

A burn mechanic of some kind would be good for this reason. Give players a reason to capture bad stat illuvials, when it makes economic sense

[sweet terrace]

I do agree tho, we should hardcap the possibility of upgrades.
2-3 10% jump at max. So that almost perfect/perfect Illuvials are still highly appreaciated on the market

[analog coral]

"The current either whale or get rekt approach is quite unsatisfying considering that arena is the "main game"" - Can you clarify what you mean? The current approach is go find lots and lots of illuvials, and then fuse the best ones together--which any player can do over time at a fairly reasonable cost, as long as they sell a lot of the rare stuff they don't need in their team.

[steady rapids]

Also, the stats will matter only in leviathan, so to use so many materials just for a game mode, not many would do it, and especially not for every illuvial they have 🤷‍♂️

[sweet terrace]

Thats the point, selling isnt going too good with the current market state.

Which fun facty this feedback idea would help with

[steady rapids]

With this it will also help selling lower tier illuvials with bad stats, as you need a specific tier for souls
Its not only about tier 5's

[sweet terrace]

In the end we'll still have 90% bad stats spawns and 9% playable and 1% epic.

I don't think the 9% playable with 2-3 upgrades would crash the 1% epic stats Illuvials value.

It just makes things a little more accessable for casuals that might want to grow into a tournament winning pro gamer.

[analog coral]

I believe Leviathan should be the main game mode. We can have both, but Leviathan should be the primary. Currently the game loop is broken with standardized stats. It's easy and cheap to get one of each illuvial. There is no point in searching for the best stats and leveling your illuvials, unless they make leviathan the main game mode.

It's like playing an MMO where everyone gets easy to get standardized stats for PvP--no one going to want to grind levels/grind for better gear if you can't use that gear at its best performance in the main PvP game modes. No addiction. No sense of progression.

Same thing is true of Illuvium. Game is easy peasy, and standardized stats sever your connection to your illuvials. The attack slow. There no point in leveling them or searching for better ones, unless Leviathan is the main game mode. It's the mode that should be prioritized above others imo, but we can keep standardized stat modes for the pure e-sports gamers.

[steady rapids]

True, but if people wont have good enough illuvials they wont play because it is a guaranteed loss 🤷‍♂️

[sweet terrace]

I have to disagree, from a casuals experience finding high stat Illuvials is super important to build your team for stage 3 runs.

I do not mean to be offensive, but here's your bias again.

We shouldnt sleep on the first weeks of casual experience

[analog coral]

The way the current leviathan gauntlet mode works you get a starter Illuvials for all--this allows everyone to start playing Illuvium at the same starting level.

If we implment a ranked system, then new players with lots of starters will be grouped together. As they improve at the game and collect better illuvials, they make progress! Which is fun! Then they can move up the ranks and face tougher and tougher opponents. It's a great progression system, assuming the newbies get to face each other, and veterans get to face each other.

[steady rapids]

What if after the first wave is gone, you want to make a synergy, but you dont have a good illuvial of that synergy. You cant catch a good one to play it, but you might adjust it a bit with burning other illuvials

[analog coral]

You can use a starter illuvial as a standin until you improve your collection. The key is just matchmaking where players of all skill and collection levels can face off against each other.

[sweet terrace]

I do agree on that, but arena generally comes rather late for casuals/newcomers.

Any casual will try to calculate costs, knowing that theres a Upgrade mechanic will ease their minds.

[steady rapids]

My honest reasons for this mechanism is just collecting. I dont care that much for leviathan. I just want my favorite illuvials to be perfect and it is hard for me to do this now

[analog coral]

Yeah, and there are tons and tons of really good T1-T3 illuvials that you can hunt/upgrade/collect that are really powerful in the game's meta--costing very little as well, like $5-10 for a good stat one.

[queen bloom]

I agree with the idea with 2 exceptions:

1. Should be the same illuvial, not only tier.
2. Should not be a predictable increase, but a random restat of only a particular trait (one of the 6 available).

A simpler mechanism.

[sweet terrace]

Well, 5$ 8x3 to build a Full S3 Team's still quite costly compared to other triple a fullgame prices.

[analog coral]

I mean you could build it for cheaper capturing it yourself by doing Stage 1 runs. Paying that outright would only be for mini-whales wanting to get a really good starter team for $50-100.

[steady rapids]

Yes, restat of a particular stat is a great idea. This way is not guaranteed, and it takes multiple tries to get a 50%
But this way you can maximise all the stats with enough tries
So it should also be limited to x restats?

[queen bloom]

Yes, agreed. There must be some mechanism to prevent the assurance of a perfect illuvial - rare luck must be a factor.
Random restat, instead of steady increase.

[analog coral]

Kind of what I was thinking too

[sweet terrace]

True, I just like this feedback idea because it may provide hopium for grinders, that werent lucky with what spawned in their runs.

Thats something thats lacking in the games current state.
Not everybody is willing to keep going into runs until he found those epic stats illuvials.

Ppl lose interest rather quickly nowadays

[steady rapids]

I would also preffer if you could have the choice to keep the current stat, or the new one. This way you wont make the illuvials worse

[queen bloom]

Maybe....but if that stat/trait got worse, you could always try again.

[honest verge]

I'm of the opinion that if it isn't Leviathan it should be F2P.

[steady rapids]

Yes, only if the team does not decide to limit the tries

[queen bloom]

The more sinks, grinds and lottery to perfection the better 😛

[steady rapids]

Agree

[analog coral]

I think they mentioned, you can't roll worse in my last stats thread.

[steady rapids]

Yes, but somehow we should prevent not rerolling infinite times to get all the stats perfect for all illuvials

[queen bloom]

Yes. If the tries are limited, it should not get worse. Unless its a very high limit....the objective would be double:

1. Increase sinks, costs and/or time to get a perfect or near perfect illuvium.
2. Avoid having grindable and predictable perfected illuvials.

[sweet terrace]

We could set a max limit that only uses a try if you accepted the adjustment

[honest verge]

that would mean illuvials would have to have a re-roll counter.

not sure if I'm a fan of it...

[steady rapids]

One reroll per stat. That is all you get
Got a 10% atk speed? You might get 20% or 50% take it and move on

[analog coral]

It would just need to be publically visible on the marketplace as well.

[queen bloom]

That would even affect its pricing 🙂 Low rerroled illuvials would fetch higher value than higher rerroled ones. However, that might be tough to implement - new field on illuvidex, etc

[steady rapids]

I believe it should be able to get lower stats though...

[queen bloom]

one or ten, the reroll counter problem would be the same

[sweet terrace]

One per stat means whaleable max stats.
Thats a nono.

It should be a general limit

[steady rapids]

Yes, that is why i would prefer to be able to get lower stats. Want to risk a 40%? Go ahead

[honest verge]

to me it would simply be a percentage chance of success of it upgrading or not.

[steady rapids]

Or this

[steady rapids]

Or this, yes

[sweet terrace]

We also shouldnt forget that council will discuss anyways.

So dont be greedy with those upvotes. Well never achieve anything if every idea sits on 3 upvotes

[steady rapids]

It is hard to decide if it would be a good idea to implement it when you hear arguments from both perspectives

[honest verge]

https://tenor.com/view/bitcoin-bitcoiner-rd_btc-im-doing-my-part-laser-eyes-gif-20915895

the idea still needs work

[sweet terrace]

But its goos to have those discussions.
Where everybody defends his own bias

Its a good base for the council discussions
They can refine and maybe even implement the final solution based on that

[honest verge]

but I 💯 want more 👀 on this!

[sweet terrace]

Council is being paid after all, give em some work

[steady rapids]

The team always knows what to do
It was the same with master shard
Lots of people wanted it removed completely from the game

[dreamy jacinth]

I certainly agree with this premise. Volumes of players will come from casuals and f2p. It's in the best interest for Illuvium to create systems that convert the f2p crowd into spenders.

Whales are already going to whale. You don't grow a game by just getting whales to spend more while the population stays the same

[south gorge]

What would you use an illuvial for that has bad stats? I.e. i fuse three 4-max stats and it ends up getting the worst of three worlds -> 0 stat illuvial. It is worth nothing right? Is there anything a person would do with those?

Previously, we were promised to burn illuvials for skins. But that has been reworked not to cost any illuvials anymore. Now what do we do woth bad illuvials? Aside from chucking them on the garbage pile?

[steady rapids]

Exactly, i am stuck with them
No one buys them, and i dont have what to do with them

[visual silo]

DO NOT ADD STAT REROLLS IN THIS GAME

what you find is what you get, if you want to up your illuvial, thats what leveling up is for

[steady rapids]

Could be an idea to burn illuvials to unlock higher maximum levels

[visual silo]

whatever it is, the actual stats of the hex should never be touched.
ex: if you have 20% attack speed, that should never be able to go up or down.

only time it gets touched is when fusing. outside of that those stats should never ever be touched

[steady rapids]

I got mixed feelings about this, as i do have some high stats illuvials, but i would like to improve what i have

[visual silo]

well than level up your illuvial

sorry dude, but that sounds so ridiculous. go find a better one or buy one someone else found, think about the game not for yourself

[steady rapids]

I am thinking about the gamez that is why i am not pushing this.
I am open minded, and i trust the council and the team

[visual silo]

well as long as viper and paz arent on council stuff like this wont get passed,

[steady rapids]

No problem, everything for the greater good

[visual silo]

im just tired of pay to cheat methods, like auto scan

[steady rapids]

It is just an idea, i don't mind my ideas to be denied if they are bad for the game

[visual silo]

respect

[visual silo]

thats the type of mentality that belongs on council, as long as your actions match words

[upper fable]

No visionary way of thinking

[mortal vault]

If you wanted to model Illuvials as items more than as characters, I think limited rerolls could have a place.

Ex (img 1):

Pick 1 category. A reroll has a cost, and randomizes the stat within that category. Only 1 category total can be chosen. This effectively gives the player a 1/6 chance of max rolling within that category.

I think thematically, that could make sense as "training" of some sort. As NFTs, it's pretty awkward, as you'd be re-minting every time you rerolled.

Not a bad idea at all, but an "only up" system that is uncapped would simply result in a lot of max statted Illuvials.

A single stat reroll with a cost (could even be an escalating cost) makes for some more interesting decisions.

Either way, there's no denying that any kind of agency to reroll would drastically increase the number of perfect Illuvials. There's a lot of stuff like this floating around out there (img 2)

The cost could be anything, it could be burning an Illuvial of the same type, it could be generic Fuel (any of the 3 types, to help balance usage out), it could be gems or ingots based on the "training" type. Loads of options there.

I think mostly you're left with the question of how this would affect gameplay, both in competitive leviathan settings and for Overworld players.

Definitely more availability of perfect Illuvials for competitive play.

Definitely more excitement about an "in-range" capture that could become perfect or near perfect, but significantly less excitement about an actually perfect Illuvial (since it can't improve at all, in spite of an improvement system existing).

I do like that your original idea caps the number of upgrades possible, but there's still a lot of moving parts to consider and implications to any implementation.

[daring solar]

My concern is once you have a full set of perfect stat illuvials what do you do next? I think some end-game mechanics where there is no cap to levelling-up/training your illuvial would be fun to keep players to keep coming back to play more..... The ascendant mode keeps all illuvials of the same type equal and that's a good balanced mode, leviathan is for stat hunters, but there could also be future modes where the illuvial you have trained the most can flex that time/effort in the game as well. Is it bad that I'd like my DH atlas i have grinded with since the begining of the game to be able to beat a axodon/ramphyre in certain game modes/scenarios? This illuvial will be my companion illuvial which i can Flex and show off? 😄

To expand Leviathan can have a level cap of level 60 illuvials only but if you burn illuvials of the same type into your main illuvial your now able to level it up to 65 or level 105 but it will still be level 60 in leviathan mode? but the stats of it being 105 may be relevevant say 1v1 in sanctum mesa or when trying to capture illuvials in the overworld if the auto-chess phase remains. It provides a no end-cap/game loop to the game for the grinders and long term players and maybe some of these high level illuvials will become special in future it grows more attachment to them as well 🙂