Fuel Exchange - Remove the 'bonus' fuel system and implement an order book

[reef sparrow]

This Fuel Exchange UI is unacceptable and its doing a lot of harm to the fuel price.

We need to throw away this 'bonus' system designed by Vetemor and implement a simple order book where everyone can see the current bids and asks.

We should also set the minimum order size to 20 units of fuel to accommodate for the 1:20 ratio.

We're basically having price oscillations of 100%+ in a couple of hours..

[tardy helm]

Agreed. This is messy and not clear, for buyers and sellers.
We need to know the real price of fuel, in a clear mechanism that allows for predictable market conditions, instead of trying to decypher the ledger that doubles or halves each moment.
People believe the price is X, when in reality is 1/3X and sellers end up selling at rate.

[reef sparrow]

Well looks like we got an update, let's see how it'll look like:

• Fuel Exchange Bonus Indicators: Added to be clearer when purchasing fuel.

[echo ruin]

i should have know vet was behind this 🤣 @forest beacon wtf bro

[livid radish]

I like this idea.

We try to go mainstream with Illuvium, still we make a lot of things more complicated and inscrutable than needed. Down with this nonesense of bonus fuel

[reef sparrow]

he dropped the bomb on us and left.

[echo ruin]

https://tenor.com/view/clemson-football-gif-26651249

[reef sparrow]

lovely update, but the problem still persists...

[upbeat dagger]

Which problem

[livid radish]

It’s confusing and unnecessary. Just let me know how much fuel I get for the eth I’m willing to pay. This bonus fuel is nonsense

[upbeat dagger]

yes i agree.
displaying bonus is an improvement, i like to celebrate small wins

[livid radish]

Why was it introduced anyway? To generate more revdis off of people who don’t know bonus fuel exists? To make spending on the game look higher?

[upbeat dagger]

if i remember correctly, yea it was intended to make web2 people feels good by getting "bonus"

[reef sparrow]

the worst part is it's not even a real bonus 🤣
Just the illusion since you're not buying at maximum price.

[livid radish]

We should find a good solution not a less worse solution

[reef sparrow]

we should stop treating our playerbase like children. Just make a simple window where you can do a market buy/sell order, and then in a separate tab show the order book and you can do limit orders.

[livid radish]

I would even go as far as calling this bonus fuel system a hidden scam. Let’s say I need 1200 solon. For me it’s not possible to buy the exact amount, so I buy a bit more to be safe and sell the rest. Surprise, surprise, Im not able to…

[reef sparrow]

true. This update did fix it a bit by showing the bonus fuel before buying but it's still a mess. And it's even worse for sellers since they don't know where the lowest order is priced at.

[livid radish]

In my opinion fuel should be an erc20 that can be simply swapped for eth with a gui like uniswap etc.

If we keep on looking to maximise revdis and sales with those hidden „scams“ Illuvium will go down as another failed crypto project…

[reef sparrow]

I was on that camp before as well. Atm I don't think it's that important. And it opens up the door for big hoarders of fuel. Something that we're defended as it is.

[upbeat dagger]

fuel as erc20 is actually defined by IIP.
Order book system with limit orders for bid and ask is actually defined by IIP too.

[reef sparrow]

I guess the team changes things as they seem fit regardless of the IIPs.

[upbeat dagger]

haha

[livid radish]

If that really was the intention, I feel more worse about this project than before… You actually wanted to onboard more web2 people by lying to them with „bonuses“?

[reef sparrow]

just proves we're not really a DAO. We're a gaming studio with a cumbersome DAO on top of it.

[reef sparrow]

yep. That was the master plan. Thank you Vetemor!

[livid radish]

Atm we are a train without rails beneath us

[reef sparrow]

The team is probably questioning themselves why do they even have a DAO

[reef sparrow]

you know what's the IIP that defines fuel as an erc-20 token?

I remember IIP-39 clearly saying the fuel exchange would work with an order book. It's in the simple summary. Hard to miss.

[upbeat dagger]

from IIP-20

from withdrawn IIP-38

[reef sparrow]

ty Jag

I think it's time the IMC starts holding the team accountable. They could have made changes if they saw it wasn't feasible to implement this before launch, but at the very least, they should have done an ICCP...

[upbeat dagger]

the order book is from IIP-37

[reef sparrow]

ah yeah, thanks for correcting me on that 👍

[upbeat dagger]

interesting.
"Players can specify the amount of Fuel they wish to purchase and the price they are willing to pay per unit of Fuel.
If they don’t specify a price, the system will automatically set the price to the best available price in the market."

how does this work with the "bonus" system

[reef sparrow]

who cares 🤣
it seems obvious by now that the team doesn't really care about the IIPs. It needs to be the IMC to put them in check...

[upbeat dagger]

IIP-37 was sponsored by aaron

[reef sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/goddamn-thats-some-fucked-up-shit-eddie-murphy-gif-25864083

[reef sparrow]

#🎮〕illuvium-zero message

the man writes an IIP and still doesn't get his way...

[reef sparrow]

maybe this bad UI is actually a blessing in disguise. I've been trying for days to sell fuel below the average price, and I've barely sold any. I have no idea what the actual price is or where I should place my fuel orders.

[errant forge]

At the time the debate was between having dynamic fuel price or fixed fuel price. The argument for fixed fuel price or at least close rails was to not scare off web2 gamers. This bonus system feature was an attempt at a middle ground where fuel is dynamic but people wouldnt be scared because they wouldnt directly know as its always the same price but you get a "bonus"

Now that we are here, not only we dont target web2 yet, but id say this feature scare people off way more than seeing the price move around

Its super confusing for both OW and ILZ players

I support this change @reef sparrow

[carmine flare]

Thanks for the perspective. I started thinking about this stuff about 5 days into ILZ hitting mainnet

[upbeat dagger]

FYI
if you want do an ICCP to amend IIP-39

[reef sparrow]

Why can't we just forfeit IIP-39 it's such a bad IIP. It already got invalidated by us not being able to sette the initial fuel values before launch and it overwrites IIP-37 to a degree since we can't see the best available price since the orders are not visible.

[carmine flare]

and foresake the legacy of this mastermind?

[reef sparrow]

https://tenor.com/view/how-dare-you-greta-thunberg-gif-15130785

[upbeat dagger]

i just read the discussion on the IIP, and vete said the "bonus" was seatin's idea

[reef sparrow]

yeah that's actually true. Seatin/Spoon.

but Vet was the one who designed it.

[carmine flare]

Aaron stated it was Vet, so if it is ok, I am going to stick with Vet because he is such a better Villain in the story. And one weird-looking dude!

[forest beacon]

The idea was good

as usual the execution by illuvium devs is dogshit

[forest beacon]

it was and frankly it was a good idea

the fact that the team executes everything in a way thats minimally user friendly has nothing to do with neither myself nor @lost steppe

Illuvium community needs to wake the fuck up and stop trying to scape goat people for the shortcomings of the leadership of this project

The user experience has been poor throughout the betas and launches of previous products and has continued to be poor to open beta launch

as a community we need to stop scapegoating "villains" or current council members (none of which can do much anyways so theyre to blame for nothing) anything and everything going wrong is the responsibility of the leadership, the only aspect of this project that is solid is the ART + ART direction and nothing else, shocker since Grant was the only qualified brother and he handed it off to qualified people since he built a solid team as he knew what he was doing, the other 2 should have hired more people to replace themselves that actually have the experience to do their jobs unlike themselves...

blame leadership or blame ourselves, blame anyone else and were just lying to ourselves lol

outside looking in now and seeing more VONCs and bs and all this blame vetemor shit is hilarious, what if there wasn't anyone ever to blame for shit but the leadership? but then if that was true how to cope right?

[livid radish]

I want to know what went wrong, what should have been executed better? Just saying it is minimally user friendly, isnt really an argument. What would you have done to make it a good experience for the customer?

[narrow furnace]

The idea was and is total trash, it creates a ton of present and possible future problems for what it seems nothing in return.

Time to take responsibility for your failures big boi, cannot pin this on the execution.

[high saffron]

The fact that this DAO allowed a bunch of YouTubers and other unqualified personal to „design“ main parts of the Illuvium economy is the problem. No company would have ever hired you into a position to make such decision. So yes, leadership is at fault by not hiring a person capable of designing an economy and instead letting you write an IIP. They should not have put you into a position you can not fill out.

[carmine flare]

Two convenience/technical compromises on how we arrive at the 95:5 split on fuel and making the item non-fungible fundamentally changed ILZ post-initial sale. YT wannabes had no idea that they converted the attributes of fuel from a commodity to an in-game voucher derivative that creates chaos over time because of compound growth rates combined with 19:1 derivatives. What has put motion a mathematical dynamic similar to the mortgage-backed securities that triggered the Great Financial Crisis of 2008...nobody seems to put two and two together. This appears to be due to IMX Starkware's limitations, which is unfortunate. I had to piece this background info together over the last week that has served as a disheartening exercise.

[forest beacon]

actually the entire proposal I made re-designing the games economy was totally rejected

instead things went the way aaron proposed which caused the exact issues i predicted and warned against (and additional unforeseen issues)

as someone who spent 15 months total on the council I can say without a doubt the council has had almost no real impact on anything from start to finish apart from redesigning governance over and over and minor proposals that meant a little something

[carmine flare]

Was the IMX Starkwave's technical limitations a driver of these changes? Or was this before Starkwave?

[forest beacon]

I'm not a UI designer, idk lol, the professionals putting it all together either have expertise or they dont (or they are experts but poor leadership or prioritisation has caused shit to be overlooked or not tested properly)

idk...

[forest beacon]

idek what that is, really not been paying any attention to this space for 8 months+ so...

so i guess that proposal was before that

[carmine flare]

@forest beacon over the course of the last 72 hours, I have come to believe I need to retract many of my statements in this feed and others. I believe much of what brought us here was due to lack of capabilities of EVM, zkEVM, and IMX at the time. So to make the 95:5 split work compromises had to be made.

[forest beacon]

which 95:5 split u referring to?

[carmine flare]

ILV = 95% and Landholders = 5%. How do you split the pie with the transactions taking place on the IMX marketplace.

[forest beacon]

yh I mean would have been a lot easier to do had my fuel economy proposal passed, technically speaking

[carmine flare]

My understanding is originally fuel was to be ERC20 fungible tokens. Is that correct?

[forest beacon]

not sure, thats defo what everyone used to assume, hard to say if it was exactly what was initially intended, but no one buying land originally thought it would be any other way

[carmine flare]

exactly!

Well, ignore the ignorant and out of place stuff I wrote in these feeds pertaining to you. I was wrong!

[forest beacon]

lol no sweat, i didnt read almost any of what most was written, a lot of slander about me goes around in the community these days (and about others im sure) cos people need a scapegoat and someone to blame

idm being that someone since im not around to be offended by any of it

so whatever, ur good sir but appreciate the sentiment

[reef sparrow]

Just so you know @forest beacon I'm doing an ICCP to remove this 'bonus system'.

and I'll just tell you this. If you hadn't put so much slander into this project after leaving council like you did maybe you wouldn't be getting so much slander from the community.

[forest beacon]

i mean if it sucks then u should remove it, power to u mate, nothing against that

[reef sparrow]

It's up folks.
https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1279848507125268521