#[Fuel rework] Suggestion/idea

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

mortal wyvern
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This is an idea/suggestion on fuel rework. Instead of the current overly complicated situation we can:

  1. The DAO sells 100% of the fuel.

  2. OW fuel usage goes from 3 types, to a single one, can be named Ether or something else. We then introduce a new building, Ether Generator. It generates a plot's share of the 5% pie passively. This can be leveled to a maximum of your plot tier, for example Tier 1 = Level 1 cap, Tier 4 = level 4 cap, etc. We feed the 3 fuels (crypton, solon, etc) to the building, and in return it generates passively ETH for us based on the land tier and structures. If a plot has fuel site imbalances, they can use the converters in order to reach the 1:1:1 ratio for the ETH generator.

  3. Land owners can have an option, to either claim 100% of their revenue in $$$, or claim in the synthetic fuel ETH for a 10-25% bonus in order to enable them to play OW through their lands (not endlessly, but closer to what was the initial vision).

I'm just throwing this out there as an idea, in my opinion it solves many problems of the current fuel system.

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What's the goal:

  • Reduce overcomplicated fuel for OW from 3 to 1 (possibly a positive outcome, not 100% sure, should have a better feel on the end of the player)

  • Fuel is sold 100% by the dao, land owners receive their share of the 5% allocation through the ETH Generator. This will greatly reduce the fuel balancing hassle, and streamline the process for a better service. Team has access to all the data, can make necessary adjustments without impacting IZ gameplay.

  • Once a plot is maxed, everything optimized, it generates ETH passively, and we can focus on adding more entertaining gameplay features to IZ.

  • Removes land owners undercutting each other and tanking the fuel prices in the process, in order to get rid of their fuel before they reach maximum storage capacity.

sterile escarp
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One question: If landowners aren't selling fuel then what would they do with it? Wouldn't that push everyone to simply farm blueprints while getting the revdis based on the land tier and structures built?

mortal wyvern
sterile escarp
mortal wyvern
sterile escarp
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The idea has merit, it's just a matter if we want to push for this or nah.

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I think too many ppl are still hooked to the idea of IZ 'free market', fuel arbitrage and all that...

mortal wyvern
clear salmon
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I think this has potential but this will need a completely new balance and economy

mortal wyvern
gaunt tree
vocal lynx
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does it mean the fuel price will be fixed?

mortal wyvern
mortal wyvern
gaunt tree
mortal wyvern
gaunt tree
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I say let them stretch ILV as far as the Eastern skies and get as much fiat energy sucked in here as possible. Get that fuel to emulate BTC's attributes as best we can, get us some liquidity on a functional DEX, keep the central planners at bay but let them stimulate or contract things when they may...and I promise you it will be better than this stupid rats nest we are in right now. We are at the 9th Gate...its all up from here!

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Yes, that statement is Financial Advice.

mortal wyvern
red vale
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very interesting option, this feels like a direct follow up from the very long thread about the fuel rework and a version of option 3 that @craggy bone mentioned being open to. I liked that option best for increased simplicity, so think this is going along a great track but there will be major pushback from the folks that really like the idea of the free market for fuel (they are deluding themselves, its not at all a free market right now).

I also like the idea of the ether generator as the mechanism for this that you feed 1:1:1 if you do want to go down the route of consolidating to one fuel type, which I think might be the right move if you do want broader adoption down the road. Idk about the term ether, might cause confusion? I had suggested a similar idea of having there be a very prominent, key building on your land to do this.

@mortal wyvern How do you see the level of the generator impacting things? you mention it varies by land tier, but what's the difference between level 1, 2, 3, and 4?

mortal wyvern
# red vale very interesting option, this feels like a direct follow up from the very long t...

Different levels can provide higher threshold for resources required to pump out your share of the revdis, as a QoL, so you don't have to do it as often. They can also provide different 'bonus' fuel, shall the player choose to claim their share in fuel for ow, rather than $$$(eth). I also think it will be cool, if later levels have the option to use in game credits to 'boost' your eth production. It should be carefully calculated how much revenue goes in through the credits and how much output increase will be generated by this boost, but I think it will be a fun mechanic to be able to boost the printer and numbers go up faster during certain events when fuel demand will be higher. So it also creates an interesting play around that. By boosting your generator you increase your plot allocation from the 5% pie, thus reducing someone else's, but then you are also spending credits which further increase everyone's profit. It just needs the proper balance between credits spent and generator output increase.

This are some ideas that come to mind, not married to them. Everyone welcome to suggest stuff

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Quick example

  1. You boost during high spend period and not many others did = profit
  2. You boost but alot more of other land holders also did during the same time = break even
  3. You boost at the wrong time = net loss (from buying the credits)
gaunt tree
# red vale very interesting option, this feels like a direct follow up from the very long t...

Trying to follow a first principles deductive reasoning model, I have landed that LANDHOLDERS is a myth or mislabeling at best. Why? There are no COMMODITIES. Fuel production is a means by which to create gamification of in-game vouchers akin to VBUCKs issued by EPIC. There is no DEX but an online marketplace powered by Starkware on IMX. Therefore, Land NFT is a stack in the DAO at best, or some novel enhanced NFT with gamification attributes that only trades on a few marketplaces with minimal buyers. All of this is probably because of pioneering, and the rails were not in place to pull off the original concept, nor are rails in place today for such functionality on EVM. This is unfortunate, and people who bought those NFTs will most probably suffer as a result.

red vale
# gaunt tree Trying to follow a first principles deductive reasoning model, I have landed tha...

I’m not sure I fully understand every connection you’re making to other games and terminology but i think I agree With what you are saying if I understand it right. The fact that illuvium labs cut fuel production by 1/4 shows that it’s not a true “free market” with commodities. I personally am ok with this as I’m a believe that a true free market would be chaotic and not necessarily good for the whole ILV ecosystem. There’s a reason things like OPEC formed in the oil commodity field. I agree the way it was generally labeled and pitched I think that’s how landholders perceived it would be, and they might be very disappointed in a change like the one proposed here, but hey they are also disappointed in a 75 fuel output nerf, a game that’s not properly balanced in terms of fuel upgrade costs, etc.

gaunt tree
# red vale I’m not sure I fully understand every connection you’re making to other games an...

If my understanding of what has transpired is halfway accurate, then I think the equitable thing to do is to convert Land NFT into a "stake" position in the DAO and make RevDis uniform for all. Make land and fuel some type of Incentivization system to compete for NFTs like blueprints, etc. This is unfortunate, and if we do not take such a path, people who bought the Land NFTs will most probably suffer financial harm as a result.

mortal wyvern
# gaunt tree If my understanding of what has transpired is halfway accurate, then I think the...

What's the financial harm exactly? They will still earn 5% of the total revenue, like it was promised. I get some of your points but I don't see where this financial loss alot of people talk about come from? If land owners thought they can use their own fuel 1:1 to farm ow, that's absolutely ridiculous, meaning they are able to play 19 times cheaper than regular players. Some fuel incentive for land owners is needed, but not 19x cheaper than regular players.

gaunt tree
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financial loss is when the cost basis (what was paid) is below the fair value by about 66% today despite 32 months and worldwide inflation of 25%. So if you nominal can sell the NFT for 33% of what was paid at auction...you are technically closer to needing an 80% bounce to fight inflation to break even.

mortal wyvern
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Token is down like 95% from ath, shall token holders start running the calculations too and complain 24/7? I don't understand this logic

gaunt tree
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you must also understand how limited of a buyer pool will ever exist for Land NFT. You only have two small marketplaces to my knowledge that exist. The ILV token can be taken to most CEXS and DEXS>

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ILV has performed terrible so I concede your logic and point as stated. I have posted plenty about what you are saying in the feeds.

mortal wyvern
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Both land and token prices depend on the quality of the overall product and how much revenue we generate so that's that. Dunno what that has anything to do with the topic.

gaunt tree
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yes that is self-evident and good reasoning by you. the product and product market fit (actualized demand)

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I hope you can see my side. Land NFTs have a long way to go before they become an "in favor asset" trading at their risk-adjusted fair market value...until then the owners by my definition have experienced financial harm.

mortal wyvern
gaunt tree
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i am all for that.

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any creative thinking on how OW can be improved to draw in more buyers?

mortal wyvern
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I don't believe onboarding should be done through ow at all, at least in its current and near-future state

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The near peers of web2 games are the arena modes. Ow and zero need alot more content for that

gaunt tree
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everything i read is that outside of asia TFT has minimal traction...I know nothing about the gaming industry in general other than few make money. Do you really think TFT clone can get mass adoption?

mortal wyvern
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Well hopefully it will be more than that

gaunt tree
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I think Breath of the Wild overlay to OW is the best appeal, with gradual rollouts every 3-6 weeks, like a self-paced seasonal reveal to drive the narrative and lore. I hear MMP/BRs are totally impractical due to the maps, but what do I know?

red vale
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I think @gaunt tree is suggesting that most land owners bought this asset expecting bigger/different returns than just another mechanism for RevDis. It was more of a hypothetical big payoff speculative asset. By going to these “option 3” scenarios it becomes clear that there will be no huge payoff, as there won’t be as much price speculation on land because the potential returns from selling fuel are much more clearly bounded and you can access those same type of returns by just staking ILV. This takes away from the “selling point” of zero that was initially promised to landholders or at least expected by most landholders it seems.

Aaron mentioned this point as well and I think it’s fair to highlight

gaunt tree
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The same is true with the Land NFT. Nobody plopped money down in June '22 to generate the outcomes we see on August '24. Am I missing something? It is the capital not the 5% "piece of the pie" fight that everyone else seems so obsessed about. 95% of $0 is?

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I can say this with full conviction. Landholders by God have not been greedy. We have had it stuck to us since day 1. We are the Dumb and Dumber of the ILV community at this point...I might be the poster child!

mortal wyvern
# red vale I think <@907290552050012272> is suggesting that most land owners bought this as...

I still don't get through what mechanism land owners were expecting a huge payoff without a huge demand for fuel. If it's option 3 or otherwise makes a little difference for the "payout" as the 5% of total revenue remains the same. Now the actual gameplay of achieving that changes, if people are really hooked into the fuel trade market, that's a fair complaint for choosing option 3 as it more or less removes that. But the payout in either case will be pretty much the same.

We need to 20x the monthly revenues to survive, so if that happens everyone will get their big payouts.

red vale
# mortal wyvern I still don't get through what mechanism land owners were expecting a huge payof...

Yes I agree completely. I think people think their land value will balloon up at some point, making their investment a huge payout. And If land just becomes RevDis only then that’s less likely cause who wants to buy that. If land stays a Wild West where maybe through some wild supply demand mechanic you could make it big selling crypton you will get more people willing to spend 10k on a tier2 land.

mortal wyvern