Rerolls shouldn't exist however you can...

[wooden raptor]

Illuvial training is a way better response to rerolling

However I think instead it should be a Nintendogs/Neopets/Tamagotchi style game where you take care of Tier 1 Illuvials allowing them to train up particular stats.
(A basic mobile game that can keep players hooked)

-Food Can be crafted with the abundant plants found in the overworld allowing you to customize each illuvial with elemental and dietary needs being met.

-Training Uses energy that is gained by food to be able to train different stats individually by either playing a minigame or some training animation.

-Petting/Playing Allows the player to pet, and play with the illuvials giving each of them individual personalities to increase the lore and lovability of the Illuvials.

-Limitations I believe that you should never be able to train your way to maximum stat values, that weren't already innately given to the Illuvial.
(this allows maxed stated t3's to still be quite valuable since it needs to be completely caught and trained up at least 5 different times)

[nocturne crater]

I see that you answered this to @arctic lily in a previous thread, if i remember correctly the illuvipet concept is exactly what you are reffering too

Simmilar to pokemon virtual pet thing and tamagotchi virtual pet

The original post of Illuvipet had a great amount of upvotes, i like the idea of tying it to stats

I think your limitations last point is an important one 💯

[wooden raptor]

My answer to his post made me think I should make it a separate conversation since it's more of a complete overhaul of his idea

[arctic lily]

Good stuff. If you or anyone else wants to chip in. There's a PDF around Illuvipets under https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1222607986883559556

[summer goblet]

IMO if reroll is to be allowed. It need to be super expensive per try and it involve burning illuvial in the process.

Example if you want to reroll one stage 3 illuvial. U need to burn 3 Stage 2 more stage 3 illuvial.

The Rerolled Illuvial will be given a tag and it cannot be use as a burn illuvial anymore. This ensure scarcity and limit burning.

[wide wyvern]

No rerolls for me. IMO burning illuvials for substance should be enough.

[pseudo marsh]

Re-rolls are essentially a way to encourage burning poorly stated illuvials - I understand the main reason opposing them and can appreciate the alternate ways to improve stats. A simple mobile companion game could be a smashing success - AS LONG AS WE CNA NICKNAME THE ILLUVIALS to form a stronger bond/connection

This seems very similar to the ILLUVIPETS idea - some form of this would be good - check out DOGAMI for some references =

• earn stardust from races (daily activity)
• train individual stats
• do it all again

Also looping back to the nicknames/naming, DOGAMI #12345 meant nothing so I paid real $$$ to Re-name him Whiskey after my real life Husky (another use for fuel in regards to renaming illuvials)

[wide wyvern]

you implement re-rolls and you destroy the OW game loop. Give substance value and that should be enough incentive for players to burn bad illuvials.

[arctic lily]

I like this.

The biggest problem with rerolls is that basically every Illuvial has or can have good stats.

And if every Illuvial is good then no Illuvial is special in terms of stats.

Paying and working for it makes them even more valuable because effort was put into them.

Proof of Petting 🤣

[snow grove]

Below the hyphens is a fully in-depth tangent on Pokemon stats and comparing them to Illuvium's for anyone interested xD.

Too long won't read: I'd like to see burning or training to be a new power system alongside the current levelling and individual values of an Illuvial. Rerolling or "mending through training" should not exist for the individual values we have on Illuvials currently.
Criticism on my idea: Fusing would be a hassle because this power system would not be easily fusable... Probably something the devs can figure out though right? 😄

Pokemon has multiple layers of stat mechanics. Levels, Individual Values, the Nature of a pokemon and Effort Values.
Levels are obvious. You train, you get stronger. But:
Individual values are determined at birth for a pokemon. They range from 0-31 hard stats. Some pokemon however can have 500 stat points in a single attribute. I.e. a pokemon with 500 attack is really strong, and the 30 points difference can have an effect but it is nowhere game breaking.

There is also the Nature, a pokemon can have an increase or decrease of an attribute by 10%. i.e. you have a pokemon with a max of 500 stats, but the nature reduces the total it can get to 450. Alongside bad IV's and you are stuck at 420 instead!

Finally there are Effort values. The pokemon gain a fraction of a stat point whenever they defeat any enemy. The cap is at 510 fractions, of which 4 are required to make a whole "stat point". You can only use 252 fractions on a single stat so a total of 63 extra points. If you defeat 4 machops (the fighting pokemon) you get 4 attack fractions adding a single stat point in attack to your pokemon. Killing 260 will result in 8x nothing

Now if you pool it all together, you can have a 500 attack pokemon if you do everything exactly right. And then if you have no idea what you are doing, you can instead create a pokemon with
500-31-50-63 = 356 attack. This is a ~30% difference in stats. This is huge.

Currently we are looking at illuvials and are using two mechanics. Levelling and individual values that are set upon capture. Illuvium is nowhere near as intricate as the stat system of Pokemon, and imo could use another power system. This is not to say: "Make everything infinitely more powerful!" but what if we burn illuvials and gain rough hard stats on an Illuvials attributes? A max of X points in any stat. and a select amount of stats can be chosen? Then you can catch a max stat illuvial, and then add X points on top of specific stats through burning to fit your playstyle.

[dry elk]

My idea to add or subtract from these reroll or burn or training suggestions is to only allow one stat to be trained per illuvial. They get some badge from the '"Gym of the Rapid Waters," for example, that increases attack speed. Maybe just up to +5, also. This way, we can't make an army of perfect illuvials, but we COULD make some of the borderline ones at least partly useful. Or work out major flaws in primary stats.

It's a shame so many are literally useless. I am positive there is a way to solve THAT problem without diminishing the value of high stat or perfect ones.

[tall mica]

That's the thing, burning illuvials for stat rerolls increases the value of floor illuvials at the expense of top stat illuvials.

A better way would be to introduce a difficult to get consumable that does that. Either through extremely difficult OW content (dungeons, raids, whatever) or as a leaderboard reward for high rankings or a battle pass reward for high ranking (if we ever have BP). That way the amount of reroll orbs can be controlled and perfect stat illuvials will remain more or less exclusive. Burning floor ilvs can have another purpose. Can be done through zero as suggested here https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1268148562097606813 or some other mechanism

[dry elk]

IMO, even such a "consumable" shouldn't have the chance to make an imperfect illuvial into a perfect one. The number of re-rolls or buffs to an illuvial's core stats should be limited by the illuvial, itself: Once in the life of the illuvial. Or even an event that comes only once per year. And it should only affect one (or maybe two) stats.

[tall mica]

Yeah something like this

[weak crane]

We can conceptually separate paid for stats and gaming skill stats from each other.

Basically the leaderboard you want to participate in dictates what stats are relevant. This gives utility to all kinds of Illuvials and does not alienate „real“ gamers, who would otherwise object to any pay to win mechanism. They don‘t really have to look at the P2W stats and just focus on levelling their Illuvials up and increasing the skill based stats through good game play.

In Leviathan both stat classes matter and competitive players might have to rely on other gamers to increase the gaming skill stats (if they don‘t have the time to play between tournaments).

This gives gamers another role in our economy and a chance to make a bit of money from whales.

[tall mica]

The only problem with play to progress is bots (especially with monetary value in the mix). The only way around this would be to cap it by high rating, but then most of the players will be excluded again and we are back to step 1. Otherwise we will benefit greatly from more play to progress features

[weak crane]

We probably need some sort of trust indicator for Illuvium accounts. In Discord we mostly look at "Member Since", have levels etc.. For Illuvium it could be a combination of things that tell us what a real player vs. an automated bot is. And then enable certain features only for those gamers. Is this what you mean with high rating ?

[tall mica]

Nope, what I meant is things earned from play to progress, whether it's some stat rerolls or anything else with monetary value is only earned from high leaderboard rankings, as bots are usually not able to climb that far. Not sure if this applies to autobattlers though, maybe with good illuvials even bots can go high.

Web3 hates kyc so we need other means to filter out the bots before introduce play to progress features I think 🤷‍♂️

[weak crane]

There are more and more web 3 reputation and identity systems like passport (.xyz) that want to grow into personhood proofs. We shouldn't be discussing this here, but for high stakes leaderboards something like this could be required.

[cloud sapphire]

I think dual system is the way to go for this. Keep illuvial RNG rolled stats permanent, no chance to reroll or upgrade.

1. You don't need to burn crappy illuvials, it's actually introducing a problem when the player base grows over time and you have a ton of people that don't want to play leviathan, but still can't find an affordable set of characters because they're all being burned by whales and competitive players.

2. You can still have a second system (like our current level up system) that you upgrade via battling/using your illuvial OR training gyms that will eventually be added to land. Just make the stat boosts apply to Arena and OW.

• Leveling gets exponentially more difficult the higher your level is, and it stacks with the base RNG stat system, so they still both feel important and they both provide value depending on if you're a whale, or if you prefer to level up with effort and training gyms (skip the RNG), or some mix of both.
• You can make the level up system more dynamic as well, maybe you get 3 points per level up, and you choose which stat to boost with those points (0.1% boost per point).

This protects high stat illuvial value, and whales who buy expensive illuvials, and gives casuals a means of feeling like their lower stat illuvials aren't useless garbage and can be improved with effort (money or time). It even gives a secondary spend option for whales (need to buy high stat illuvials and pay for training gyms as a separate stat progression bonus).

In a sense, this is equivalent to earning or paying to reroll/improve stats, but the optics of a second system would make it feel like a positive, not a negative IMO.