#Balancing of fuel

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

remote marten
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I saw fuel costs being balanced multiple times now, but they are still out of balance a lot.
The big solon sink is crafting of armaments, adding solon cost to the very expensive mastershard which get's barely crafted because he is so expensive has an almost insignifcant impact.

With the latest patch, new weapon system got introduced, which could lead to people wanting more different weapons than before, but for sure not all of them since they are going to be super expensive. Not expensive because of the solon cost, but because of crypton cost to farm the materials. Lets just take a look at the Tidal Flail for example.
The amount of runs to farm all those celestium alone let crypton cost exceed solon cost by at least 10x take another good 10x for the rest of the materials. So one ends up by 20x crypton and 1x solon cost for basically the only solon sink we have in. (And thats super low cost estimation for the material, they are likely higher)

Same thing for the other way smaller solon sink, the fusion of Illuvials.
A t5s3 fusion has solon cost lower than 2 s3 runs in OW. The amount of hyperion and crypton one has to spend to do such a fusion is hard to calculate without access to data, but it crypton+Hyperion cost exceed the solon cost probably by the same amount as in the crafting example above.

My buying behaviour in the fuel exchange mirrors what my ballpark estimations about the fuel sinks shows.
And with us getting closer to open beta and me seing fuel balancing still totally out of whack makes me afraid of the balance of the different fuel prices.

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quiet ferry
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To me, this is one of the most important aspects to get right from the get-go. Hope the team can balance this properly til launch.

whole sand
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Glad you brought it up @remote marten , id love to hear a team statement on this 🙏

hot flint
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maybe just need 2 kinds of fuel

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3 fuels is just an overly complicated system

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and when are we going to test IZ with fuel exchange? Hopefully not on mainnet

remote marten
hot flint
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the fact that they cant balance fuel 3 weeks to launch proven my point lol

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solon is for crafting weapons, and now forcefully used for master shards.

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theres a way to give solon more use case and continuous demand.
weapon repair

remote marten
hot flint
quiet ferry
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people traded with salt in the Roman empire, it's only a matter of perceived value.

remote marten
# hot flint do you pay with bread to buy a car?

no, i can pay with dollars, euros, swiss francs, maybe even with crypto nowadays depending which cardealer.
I can buy a new xbox with like 8 different currencies, i can buy bread with at least 2 different currencies.
Also one could argue the currency is eth and with that eth you buy trading goods (3 different fuels) to trade for other ingame assets.

If team is not able to balance the 3 fuel, team won't be able to balance the cost of all different crafting recipes with the droprates of the ores/gems/essences. They would also not be able to balance all the synergies and classes in Arena.
In the end its balancing x values with y other values in different systems.

I know you want to see just 1 kind of fuel, but mentioning everywhere when there are talks about fuel doesn't bring you closer to your goal.
I would suggest you open a thread, where you explain why it would be a better solution, gather sentiment, gather other ideas and craft an IIP.

hot flint
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unless you are from zimbabwe which officialy various currencies

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you wouldnt care much if some ores, essences, consumables and gems are not balanced.
why do u care so much if fuel is not balanced?

remote marten
# hot flint

yes, governance stuff i have to pay in CHF, similar to promodisks you have to pay in eth and not crypton/solon/hyperion.

I would, but they are not bad balanced at all. There are some ores that are a bit too common and some that are a bit too rare, but imo they are pretty close to get the balance there.
Because it's super unbalanced. Like people cared about and ask for balance patches when everyone just played rhamphire to make 1 big boom and whipe the whole enemy board

hot flint
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imagine ur minting a d1sk in:
solon/crypton/hyperion/silv2

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which fuel price does the silv2 pegged to?

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the problem with solon, u only need it once to craft a weapon

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it needs a continuous sink

quiet ferry
remote marten
# hot flint it needs a continuous sink

maybe an additional sink would help, not sure there's enough time to implement and usually the more values you have to balance, the more difficult it gets.
In the end it's as continous as hyperion, you need x amount to get the assets you want and if you want more for trading in the dex you buy more to get more assets.... the same with crypton.
Theres x amount of illuvials y amount of armaments z amount of runs to get all that, that's what was needed to balance out at the very first, and then you might have to adapt to player behaviour. Like maybe all players have all the illuvials, but just 1 weapon. Then you either change cost or the system to balance it out again.

I was actually hoping some team member could help us understand why it is like it is, maybe i just oversee something.
But imo for example making crypton cost in the solon sink higher than solon could lead to such an imbalance.
Maybe they balanced all the mats, calcualted the price for the asset and then add the solon cost they can to not make the asset too expensive which was just a way too small solon cost... idk

wanton pelican
# remote marten I saw fuel costs being balanced multiple times now, but they are still out of ba...

Heya Spoon, appreciate the post

Your assessment is correct and 'fuel balance' is one of the main KPIs I am watching

I personally feel fuel imbalance is one of the main features of the system up to a point and we can discuss where that point is
That said, we can probably both agree that '10x' is way out of line.

Because I was a tad too late in updating this, the last release just missed a significant update to changing the weights for especially higher ores to balance exactly your issue out. I cant promise you when this will reach you as I dont go over that but its on our direct radar and should be there Soon TM. Give it a try once its out and come back to me with your feedback if you can

Beyond that extremity, we have changes/features in the pipeline regarding solon so we have some more levers to pull after release for solon specifically, again I cant make promises on the 'Wen' but this is close to the top of our list. Soon+ TM.

Again I want to emphasize perfect balance is not our goal here and if small to medium imbalances start to occur we won't 'pull out the hammer' right away as there are different timeline dependencies for the different fuels as well, but for a 10x our eyebrows will be raised quickly, but I actively monitor this multiple times per day

We're combining data and modelling to try for fuel balance best we can, but the main unknown is player demand which I can try to predict but unfortunately I can't see the future there. Testnet data is very useful but it is also a world where price sensitivity is irrelevant

hot flint
wanton pelican
hot flint
remote marten
# wanton pelican Heya Spoon, appreciate the post Your assessment is correct and 'fuel balance' i...

Hey Perry, appreciate you hopping in

Yes, i agree that it is a cool feature to have. But in my pov the game itself should balance it out as good as it can, imbalance will also be introduced up to a certain point with the building behaviour in IZ and with the preset in production of the randomized fuel outputs of landplots due to randomized sites which impact we haven't seen yet.

Can't wait to see the updates 🙂
I doubt that a change in weights of ores would make up for it, since the solon cost are now so low for forging and fusing that whatever droprate we have in the overworld for different assets, you for sure have to do more than 2-3 runs to get the assets to forge whatever one want, wheres 2-3 runs would be the equal in crypton cost to solon cost and solon cost should exceed crypton/hyperion cost in the solon sinks.

It's already amazing the speed of new updates coming into the build, you guys are crazy. Can't wait to see more new features. (Will probably never stop to be hyped for upcoming stuff :D)

Yea i totally understand that you can't forsee that and also the testnet data is probably barely useful for now to get the total economy right, with how the airdrop phase 1 was set up.

Thanks again for hoping in and see you next update i guess 😄