Possible Consequences of the Holo and Dark Holo Points System. Part 1

[floral crescent]

Hello, community and team!

I finally managed to collect 725 000 points, and while I'm happy on one hand, I have mixed feelings on the other. I play Illuvium a lot and want to share my concerns and a suggestion on how to address them.

I apologize in advance if what I wrote is far from reality and I have a wrong impression because I don't see the whole picture. I just really love the world of Illuvium and care deeply about its fate. I thought it would be better to write this, even if you later think I'm a fool, than to keep it to myself. Even if it makes a small impact, it will not be in vain.

PB4 participants are mostly a very loyal and dedicated audience. They eagerly await each new stage, with many having been in the project since the beginning. In PB4, we collected sets, played in the arena, sent bug reports and feedback. When OB started, we were told, "Guys, your reward for testing is the experience and enjoyment of the game." I don't mind because I really enjoy playing, but I also spent a lot of time finding bugs, making videos and sending them by email, writing feedback on some issues, and I know many others who did the same. I thought feedback on the game was the most important part because it would allow us to fix errors before the mainnet launch. But after PB4, there was no mention of this. We thought that the errors we found, recorded, and sent to the team were not valued and were not an important part of the testing process.

With the start of OB, many players dive into collecting sets, not just for the AirDrop reward but also for competition. For some, a high place on the leaderboard is more motivating than the size of the reward. But two weeks later, Holo and Dark Holo were introduced, giving abnormal points and completely devaluing everything we actively collected before. I thought the AirDrop was meant to provide an extra boost that would create a wave. It should include those at the top, in the middle, and at the bottom. So that after this activity, in other information fields, they would say: "Look how cool it is that I participated in the AirDrop from Illuvium, I played a lot and got a great reward" or "Yes, I participated and didn't spend much time, and I was rewarded like this. But the guys who played a lot or were very lucky were generously rewarded. Be sure to follow Illuvium and don't miss the start of new activities!" Over 9 days, Holo caught 270,770,330 points, and Dark Holo caught 163,668,200 points. I have the impression that this progression will dilute the pool, and there will be no winners and possibly no satisfied players, which could have the opposite effect. Instead of advertising, it will only bring criticism. I not only play a lot but also stream on Twitch, and I am in the Russian-speaking chat 24/7 helping newcomers. I have come to the conclusion that this system appeals to those who play a little and do not delve into the details, and it does not appeal to those who play a lot and are deeply involved in the game. Continued in part two...

Part 2: An important point: the current situation can lead to a misperception of the game among the new audience. What did we do before? We collected resources (shards, buffs), fought a lot and captured Illuvials, because sets require lines of different stages. We also needed to earn experience for them to upgrade Illuvials to higher tiers. The game had a spirit of collecting and some linearity in development. At the moment, as you can see in my points list, collecting regular Illuvials is not rational if we want to have a higher place on the leaderboard. I surveyed many players, both new and old, whether they currently experience joy from encountering a regular stage 3 Illuvial, and all responded that they do not collect any regular Illuvials except tier 5 and do not feel joy upon encountering them. I believe this should not be the case. For a large number of battles, we need buffs; for collecting sets, we need many shards, and this takes a lot of time. Additionally, we need to level up Illuvials that are rarely encountered. Many have already realized this, and others will realize it later. Now it is more profitable to spend time searching for high tier Holo and Dark Holo. When we meet them, we only need to conduct one battle and spend one shard to get many points. Then the game will turn into a speedrun: everyone will enter the steppes, run through 60-70% of the red zone in 3 minutes to see if there are DH or H, and re-enter. They will do this numerous times a day. They will do it not because they like this gameplay, but because with this points system, it is more effective. I think everyone who has played a lot and understands the game will agree with me. In the video, I will demonstrate how this will look. I even had to buy a special suit for it:
https://youtu.be/LL0M6g6PD8o

At the moment, many newcomers do not even know about the arena. They think the essence of Illuvium is endless catching of Illuvials. When they see experienced players endlessly searching for DH on Discord and Twitch, they will start doing the same. After some time, they will get very tired because this gameplay is not enjoyable for everyone.

I absolutely understand that it is very difficult to make everyone happy. One of the important aspects is attracting new audiences and retaining the loyal ones. My suggestion is as follows:

1. Sets of regular Illuvials, game time, weapon crafting, quests, and the arena (if it comes out) should have a pool of 20k tokens.
2. Holo and Dark Holo should have a pool of 10k tokens.

This will give us a choice: to develop the entire collection and explore all aspects of the game or to participate in a lottery and look for only rare Illuvials.

Sorry if I wasted your time. Nevertheless, I would appreciate it if you share your opinion and leave a reaction, whatever it may be.

[timid kraken]

400m points from holo

[floral crescent]

These are the numbers I counted on Saturday

[final gulch]

Hey everyone! Major props to the author for the hard work and dedication put into this feedback. It’s a bummer to hear that the new Holo and Dark Holo points might be overshadowing the efforts of dedicated players. The suggested tweaks sound solid and could help keep the game fun and fair for everyone. Hopefully, the devs take note and make some adjustments. Let's keep the convo going!

[frozen cove]

I think you missed it brother I heard they will nerf the holo gain... and ad points for items... That will contribute for all long time players plus still giving a chance for new players to be up close to you with a good catch. . . Me personally if they would just change the multiplication to 3 instead of 5 would be perfect and the risk factor of evolving holos without 3 of them would be 50/50

[final gulch]

I missed that too). Where did they say they would make these changes?

[frozen cove]

Is this is correct without even capturing illuvials to count I played over 400 hours have 400k that gives me 30.000/400M*400k 0.03 ILV

[surreal sail]

Everything BaRT said was pretty much true. And everybody knows that, it's so silly to not award real players and real testing but to have a marketing lottery just to attract a few hundred more players in the beta that aren't actually testing the game.

But there is one thing that is always missed in this discussions.

We aren't playing the game the right way. How are we testing drop rates from mining? How are we testing drop rates from harvesting? How are we testing ignot recipes? How are we testing weapon prices? How are we testing drone upgrades? How are we testing anything apart from holo catches???

[surreal sail]

No.
400 hours is equal to 40 000 points. (not 400 000)

[frozen cove]

I know bro I am talking about I have total amount of points 400k

[surreal sail]

There is an IIP-58 Coherent and Consistent Airdrop Structure that has some problems, but it's a secret that we aren't allowed to know.

[floral crescent]

430m was only for Holo and Dark Holo on Saturday.

[floral crescent]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels that way!

[frozen cove]

It is strange who can collect so much points this might be a cheat If someone has 100x more points then you Bart I will be upset

[astral ferry]

Are you sure about the maths here?
Your share should be:
(400k/400M)*30k ILV = 30 ILV

[floral crescent]

1 DH t5s3 gives more points than 3000 regular illuvials)

When I see players see T4S3 and don't capture it because it's a waste of resources, it makes me sad) but I realize that it really is a waste of resources.

The final count of DH and H

[frozen cove]

Ye you right srry this looks better:)

[astral ferry]

Right? But still the H and DH points are broken

[frozen cove]

I think if they instead of increasing it by 5 each lvl increase it by 3 plus give something for crafting that would be good for everyone. . . Even for does who are to slow at catching illuvials

[astral ferry]

Also, going back to IIP-58, when you look at the main council votes it seems that they are considering some changes
https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1252532552728580127

[frozen cove]

Ye 💯 they hear us they will do something I think we need to be bit patient till the Leaderboard comes then everything will be more clear

[left sundial]

very correct words from Bart. I would like to know what the developers think about this

[sand flower]

I was actually talking about this yesterday with @robust tinsel. An airdrop with a shared prize pool will not satisfy the players. A leaderboard with a bigger prize for first place and rewards for up to the top 100 etc would be much better than a shared prize pool between all players. If you look at other web3 airdrops, all the web3 games that have done a leaderboard prize pool and distribution have always succeeded. On the other hand, those that have done a shared prize pool, where people received only $100 to $200 for playing 400-600 hours during the airdrop, experienced a significant drop in players, and no one ever came back. So, you have a point, Bart. I hope they change this when they announce the leaderboard and other details.

[surreal sail]

The more we postpone the changes the harder they are to make.... We already postponed them too much.

[dense sage]

I'm hoping they introduce the crafting gear airdrop point quick to mitigate the holos/dark holos disproportionate boost and help test all materials drop rates as you mentioned.

[sand flower]

I would rather postpone and play 600 more hours if i knew im really getting rewarded then rather like 1ilv for playing all this time with a prize pool shared prize pool, and the leaderboard and prize distrubition shouldnt make any postpone we still have 1 month left;)

[surreal sail]

I'm just saying we should have fixed this holo airdrop lottery right away and we should not have waited this long...

Most silly thing is that we haven't heard any comments from admins or data people or IMC about this...

[sand flower]

oooo sorry brow I missunderstod, yeah then I agree 100% with you;)

[steady lava]

Thank you for taking the time express what many feel @floral crescent

IMC is currently revising IIP 58 about restructuring the holo/dark holo airdrop #1252532552728580127 message

Is passed 3-2 at the community level and now IMC has voted for a revision and talked with the sponsor. I am hopeful they will address the situation and make the best situation for the DAO

<@&814435151307866142> tagging you just to make sure you see this thread before making your final decision

[ebon path]

Non-holo units pointless now sadly, same as a whole arena part of the game, feels wrong :/

[dense sage]

We don't need the holo/dark holo airdrop to be restructured, we just need to add crafting points to reward players who have farmed ores and not simply chased holos. Solves everything IMO.

[steady lava]

The concern with holo/dark holo being boosted is that it dilutes the time played and previous 2 weeks of grind to a point where they dont matter at all anymore

I see many people that had 50-200k from the previous 2w-6w and then did 500k-1M in the first week of holo/dark holo

I agree we need the part2 and 3 to roll out but they wont solve the holo/dark holo concern on their own imo

[dense sage]

IMO it would solve because it would reward those players who farmed ores/plants before and have a lot of stacked materials with nothing left of interest to craft.

[surreal sail]

I don't think that's good enough. Right now nobody is catching anything that's not holo. That's mega broken...

Adding rewards for ores and forging and everything else is the right thing for sure. But that's on it's own doesn't fix the problem of holos.

We can't just keep adding points and points and points.

Hours played are currently worthless.

[dense sage]

why not? if crafting gear gives decent points then players will start to mine and harvest plants as well.

[tepid leaf]

I fully support BaRT's idea. He is a pro gamer and his interest is towards Illuvium success only

[surreal sail]

than catching and collecting Illuvials is useless even more. Playing the game to explore is useless even more.

We need balance.

[dense sage]

I fail to grasp that logic. I'm assuming collecting illuvials would still award the bulk of the airdrop points.

In anyway these changes need to happen ASAP we're 1 month away from launch.

Still no gauntlet arena, no OW illuvial combat nor an airdrop leaderboard page...

[surreal sail]

All I'm saying is that we need balance holo points + add crafting/collecting points.

Just adding crafting/collecting points with broken holo points will not be balances. It will be just adding more oil on fire.

But I agree. We should have changed that right away, and not waste days and weeks.

[thorn oyster]

Also fusion illuvials should be taken into consideration. Before was really easy to find S3 running around with the introduction of ethereal if you want to get S3 you need to actually spend time to level them up and fuse it.

[ornate rover]

Guys, read the author's proposal more carefully. What he suggests is the easiest and fastest way to get out of the situation, and I agree with him on this. He suggests dividing the total reward into 2 parts. One part for holo and one part for everything else (sets, craft, arena). Each player will be able to choose which path to follow and it will be fair for everyone

[surreal sail]

Lately, IMC wants just plane proposals where team can do whatever they want, they don't want "too concrete" proposals with ideas on how to solve problems. So I don't think the idea about solving really matters.

[sudden swallow]

Personally i would stay away from making drastic changes this late into an Event (in this case the gameplay airdrop) Like instead of 1 reward pool making 2 reward pools. I would rather geather feedback to optimize future Events. Stay consistent in what is being announced, and not Change it half through the Event or even after the Event happened.
If you Make drastic changes, you always have an unhappy Part of the community about the changes and the whole community loses trust, which ends in less participants for those Events, Bad Reputation and Bad marketing in socials since negativity always have a wider reach than positivity

[surreal sail]

Yeah, that's what usually happens when you have this kind of silly numbers just for marketing's sake.

If you fix it people will complain, if you don't fix it people will complain.

[haughty hornet]

agree with you and binetcauchy but how are we moving forward until launch?
New mechanics with new incentives (like crafting) will either cause even more chaos and invalidate previous point systems or are pretty much not important because they don't give enough points.

Without a clear cut we have a near impossible balance act in front of us

[still shard]

Before i spend 45 minutes to 1 hour just to check every illuvials that i encounter. Now 6-10 minutes sometimes 15 minutes if i saw Holos. No one is collecting sets since it makes no sense anymore.

[floral crescent]

Under current conditions it won't work because you can buy illuvials or gear, and when you introduce this people will dump everything into 1 account. You can get the most points without even installing the game, just by buying the whole market. The most important thing from this experience to draw conclusions for the future.

[raw bison]

This is my primary issue. Airdrop point distribution is supposed to encourage particular behaviours in game that the team feel need to be tested or collect data on.

The speed running taking place rn is nothing close to a mainnet simulation and I'm really struggling to see any meaningful data that can be collected from testnet in it's current state

Perhaps there's a sound rationale behind holo/dark holo points. I just don't see it 🤷‍♂️

[sudden swallow]

https://tenor.com/view/tom-hardy-the-drop-mo-too-ivebeenthere-me-gif-9348768

[floral crescent]

That's not the problem, big crafting points won't change anything. Look, I'm 12 years old and I'm a crypto billionaire, I have 3 yachts, I really like to compete and I like to play illuvium. I collect collection a lot of fights, collect resources gradually increasing the progress of my account. And it's addictive as there is linearity and progression. But at one point the rules of the game change so that everything that I did before has no value, and now I do not need to collect collections and resources, pump experience and so on I just need to play a simulator photographer. That's the only way I can continue to compete on points. Crafting is a good addition to the quests, it can be interesting to think of, but as a basis no, for it is not a very interesting aspect of the game

[floral crescent]

As I've said before, Illuvium is very lucky to have people like you! Thank you!

[surreal sail]

It doesn't have to be interesting. I has to help the team test the game... We are on a testnet. We need testing...

We can't just go live with no ideas about drop rates and harvesting rates and prices and recipes and everything else because 95% of players are speedrunning holos...

[floral crescent]

It's not about the reward and the ability to maximize it. It's about people not only collecting points, but also enjoying the game, you need to tie points to the best aspects of the game

[floral crescent]

I don't know who you are, but hopefully in the future when Illuvium championships are held in huge stadiums we'll have a beer with you, our thoughts are very similar!

[warm forum]

Just saw the new IIP and ILV team says that they can't change Holo points because it will "unsettle" players who hunted for Holo. What a complete joke statement. What about player who spent 300 hours doing lines and closing tiers just to get diluted and slaped in the face by new holo COMPLETILY LUCK dependent points? what a joke

[surreal sail]

Is the game currently in marketing phase or in testing phase.

I get where you're coming from. But we need both. (I would think)

Not just rewarding best aspects of the game, but those that needs testing as well.

But I think we can agree on that.

[floral crescent]

You're right! The main message is that the award should stimulate us not only to compete but also to study OW, to enjoy every moment, to be happy to meet 3 stages of illuvial, to be proud of our collection

[floral crescent]

I agree with you, abrupt change is not a good thing. But they have already happened, "someone has turned the wheel" and maybe it is worth to smooth things out a bit, add balance. And so yes, the most important thing is experience, based on which everything will be even better in the future

[floral crescent]

We need smart people to make connections between collecting and crafting. So that there's a challenge. H and DH require 1 battle, 1 shard and that's it, it's boring, we don't need to collect sets don't need lines just a very large number of runs, understanding where and how to run, well and luck. If you make the quests interesting and not very easy it might give an extra incentive.

[modern dock]

Very accurate summary @floral crescent . I agree with nearly everything you said.

The game is in a rough place right now. No doubt. It’s unfortunate, but in my opinion the holo and dark holo points were simply too far out of line with the previous set and line points. I understand the theory behind inflating the numbers, but the execution was off.

I also agree with @sudden swallow that changing the agreed upon numbers is not palatable and will feel like a rug pull if executed.

What I’d like to see? Perhaps the current airdrop point system ends on June 30th with accumulated points kept as earned and a new, balanced system starts July 1 that includes crafting and has a reasonable balance to it with some inflation to help newcomers and keep us all engaged. Balance allows a more natural game state moving forward.

The current game play loop of ignoring all Illuvials except DH and high value holo cannot be good for Illuvium as a whole and I believe we’re starting to see that in the numbers.

I have faith that Illuvium will learn from this and be better for the experience.

[floral crescent]

Only 300? Your reward is the pleasure of the game.

[floral crescent]

That's why I suggested the balance, that the reward would be both for testing all aspects and for the lottery

[floral crescent]

That's an incredibly wise suggestion!

[haughty hornet]

good take. That is actually what could happen right now #1251221577119432805 message

[dense sage]

12 year old crypto billionaire? 🧐
I'll just reiterate what already has been said. It's cool that the game is interesting but the main focus right now should be to test the game as much as possible while on testnet before we officially launch.

[dense sage]

I don't really think separating the airdrop in two starting on July 1st makes really that much sense since the airdrop campaign it's supposed to end at least one week prior to launch so that would mean probably only 2 weeks for this next phase.

[floral crescent]

I meant that it's not about the size of the award and the motivation to get it, it's about competing with others. And the reward should make us experience every aspect of the game. I saw a guy on a streamer see Scoriox and just run right by! I thought WTF is that Scoriox himself, if you see him in real life, you mean you'll just run right by him? But if you weigh the cost of collecting tier 4 lines (1-2 tier 4 shard, 1-2 tier 5 shard, mb 1 master shard for s3) 3 fights and plants on them + time and for all this 600 points, it's really not worth it.

[warm forum]

I really loved OW and even played the first Arena beta way back when. The worst campaigns are the ones were everybody makes a little and ever worse makes a little after investing 300-400 hours. I enjoyed the game, and I bet that half of the players here are just for the airdrop campaign and will leave after. People will FUD the project after this airdrop ends and 50% of the players playing right now will probably leave and wait to see if they can play and make money, if not they will move on to the next P2E/Airdrop. That's how it works on web3, there's no way around it. You guys keep trying to balance new comers, trying to make it a leveled playing field for everyone if they joined now or a month back, this just can't happen, it's bad design for an airdrop. Lots of players left after they saw that holo points were unfair and their advantage was heavily diminished. 90% of players right now are playing this game because of the money incentive not for love of the game, it's unfortunate but it's what it is. I'm very concerned that this airdrop campaign will backfire and we don't even have a leaderboard. Said this I 100% agree with OP first and second post, but I lost hope that Illuvium team would change anything as of now and i'm concerned how the other 90% of airdrop campaign will unfold

[floral crescent]

What proposed Soda, just genius I think it would suit everyone and no one would be offended.

[dense sage]

I agree with that, it's sad that there is no incentive to complete lower illuvial lines now. But again this is just testnet phase. Things will be very different with the official launch.

[burnt drift]

This is a great idea. It would be great if PVP was included in the new points system as well as there's barely anyone playing, and most people should have enough illuvials now to craft a decent team

[floral crescent]

I know exactly what you mean! It's been 56 days since PB4 started, I've played 720 hours, that's 30 days in the game in less than 2 months, I also had access back in PB1 and was one of the first to stream illuvium on twitch. But I also understand the team, that we need new players, and they need to be attracted somehow. And the balance is not so easy to find so that everyone is happy

[floral crescent]

Everything can change) My conscience does not allow me to skip stage 3 illuvials, even though I realize that under current conditions it is a waste of time and resources.

[warm forum]

#1251221577119432805 message this is accurate and right now saying that we can't change things is just inaccurate. Making crafting in line with holos for new comers? People stop hunting illuvials and just craft equipments like crazy, the catch? they will never use them on OW just craft another for points. Players complain that their time played just became worhtless, team just states it's "free money" and we can't complain. Is this really how they will handle airdrop campaign on mainnet? Players must let go of this sentiment that "it's just testnet and free money" once the game is marked by a bad event it's really hard to turn it around.

[floral crescent]

I'll tell you more than that! As a streamer and someone who communicates a lot and helps new players understand the mechanics! They don't even know there is an arena! In their opinion, catching illuvials is the whole game)))

[warm forum]

My problem is that the team thinks they can onboard 100k players in first month. That's not true because the total web3 players is much much small than any web2 segment. Aside from that Illuvium OW is a grinding game and right now Arena is useless and after you catched every single Illuvial, crafted perfect gear, etc. what's left to do? Right now it's just farming for airdrop points. There is no realistic gameplay loop. Team chose to do it this way or were naive enough to think players would do this loop for 60 days without complaining there's nothing else to do. Again, this is web3 99% of players are here to make money, to earn, not to test a game, not to play for fun. It's a hard truth but it is true nonetheless

[warm forum]

I'm skipping anything that's not T5ST2-3 or holo T4ST1 upwards. That's the gameplay now, which is terrible tbh, but points efficient

[floral crescent]

That's the harsh truth

[warm forum]

And I can't believe the team have not noticed that after 2 weeks lol

[modern dock]

It’s tricky. The game is fun and addictive. Needs work still, obviously, but the potential is here to be one of the greatest games/IPs ever. The stakes are high.

The issue right now has been identified by many, Bart specifically in this post. It is an issue. Clearly. It should be addressed. Quickly. Why? Because many people have altered their strategies to correctly farm the airdrop by no longer playing the game, but instead speed running.

This is an important point. Top airdrop farmers are not playing the game right now.

This is not nearly as much fun and causes burnout and other issues. Streamers are not that fun to watch when they skip nearly all Illuvials. I believe it’s imperative to quickly alter player behavior back to playing the full game so that we continue organic growth of the player base.

The airdrop should allow for us all to enjoy the game while earning some ILV.

MILVGA

A final point. Keep perspective. The game is still awesome. The company and core contributors are still crushing it. We’re just a little off the rails in one small aspect in a brief moment in time.

Illuvium have shown time and time again that they listen to our concerns and make positive changes when needed. I’ve seen it countless times now and I’m sure they’re working hard to improve in this area once again.

[ashen rain]

@floral crescent I agree with you.... Personally, I stopped playing and I was demotivated. I had 230k points before the new point system.

[floral crescent]

I believe that the illuvium concept can break this standard. That Web3 is all about making money and no satisfaction! I am from the Web2 world, I have played thousands of hours of Dota Auto Chess/Dota Underlords/Hearthstone Battlegrounds, I have been top of the world rankings and won tournaments many times, and I can say that in my opinion, Illuvium Arena has very interesting fundamental mechanics, and has huge potential in this genre. Whoever originally came up with this was very serious and understanding.

[modern dock]

I love PvP and can’t wait to play it again! Gauntlet soon as well. I would love to see some incentive here, but it makes sense if they decide to skip it. We’re getting a total wipe in less than one month after all. On launch focus would be on gauntlet mode until enough Illuvials are caught for ascendant and leviathan arena to have a large enough player base. Omg so excited!

[steady lava]

They will incentivize gauntlet in Part3 of the airdrop, at least thats the plan

[ashen rain]

I hope who will give millions of points for pvp arena

[floral crescent]

I know how you feel, and it’s come to me, but I think it’s all gonna balance out, and now we’re getting more experience, and everybody’s wrong

[dense sage]

with the current timeline and phase 2 starting on July 1st what will that be? 1 week of gauntlet? 😬

[steady lava]

Idk, i would have expect part 2 to roll on june 15th as it open beta was initially planned for end of june

[floral crescent]

Since the focus is shifted on the new players, to make a lot of points for the arena will not

[fallow prairie]

I agree, its so demotivating to play new accs getting 1 DH destroys all my 200 hrs worth of points lol

[warm forum]

For me, holos points were just 10xed for marketing. There was zero logic on that decision and brings nothing to the community

[dense sage]

well on a positive note it's only 5 more days of this holo/dark holo madness.

[warm forum]

is that real information or speculation? Why would it end after the 30th? there's zero logic to that. Airdrop points should be obtainable to the very last minute

[dense sage]

lol it's official
https://illuvium.io/news/openbeta-testnet-airdrop-points-explained

[fallow prairie]

i mean its ok to have holos / dh but damn the wack pointing system
it couldve been per set not per illuvial

[regal sequoia]

can someone explain what this is? Has the airdrop campaign been changed into seasons? I dont get this at all. There was an IIP about nerfing holo points, but what is this?

[timid kraken]

crafting and catching are two different things.
we accumulate ores and essences in both meta.

[warm forum]

First time I read this news article there was no set date to end, maybe they added it after Mega Hunt was announced. But regardless after the 30th we go from catching illuvials to shooting rocks.

[atomic chasm]

please give me an explanation too. I haven't fuse all 100 of my illuvials yet. @celest sierra when will the snapshot be?

[dense sage]

It seems like we're needing an official announcement Rich.

[calm ginkgo]

When I brought this exact topic up I heard from people I should ‚stop crying‘ lol. I absolutely do not support the current situation that holos basically hit the people since day 1 of the beta in the face making their past efforts useless. I also played 5h on average each day - got more points with holos than my sets within 3 days which shouldn’t be the case

[keen wagon]

me as a gamer im ok with holos dark holos points, what im against with is that . there are bots hacks and abuse happening to farm holos and dark holos.

[dense sage]

I'm sure those are getting banned from the airdrop

[floral crescent]

Maybe people didn't realize that Holo and Dark Holo would generate 526 million points in 10 days

[calm ginkgo]

I still believed the T5S3 DH to be way rarer

[floral crescent]

It's simpler than that, you can go to the casino, if you use variance mathematically, you can increase your 33% on a successful FUSE and get from t5s1 to t5s3. There are many examples like this already

[calm ginkgo]

I thought if there is 1 or 2 by the end it would be good. But so many in couple days is crazy

[keen wagon]

didnt see anyone got ban yet or got announce by the team that they are ban just like other gaming companies

[calm ginkgo]

Or this. You’re right

[dense sage]

there was, you just didn't see it.
#📣〕announcements message

[keen wagon]

saw that already but they didnt say they ban how many accoutns or etc etc

[floral crescent]

you make a few fuse tire 1 using 1 H or DH, and then after unsuccessful attempts to go high tier, mathematical such approach gives a lot of points. It’s not just luck

[keen wagon]

in other games they make announcements. we ban blablabla accounts. they are transparent

[dense sage]

I think some things are good to keep secret till the right time comes.
you can also check this thread: https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1251927732514983937

and don't get me wrong, I'm all for transparency.

[timid kraken]

@floral crescent
theres a proposal to reduce the points from holo.
how does this proposal compare to reducing the holo points?

[floral crescent]

This is a split proposal. For balance. To study all aspects of the game: collecting arrays of ordinary illivials, kraft, playing time, arena is 1 pool to 20k tokens. Holo and Dark Holo is the second pool for 10k tokens. This gives us what is the reward for playing actively in all aspects of the game, as well as the lottery for H and DH. That’s what my proposal is, I thought it was more balanced.

[warm forum]

Wasen't the proposal declined? Now the new IIP it's that in the future the team must not change rules mid airdrop
Or maybe i'm mistaken. But I hope the team dosen't make changes mid mainnet airdrop

[timid kraken]

yea i just read the new proposal. the team can introduce new rules, but they have to snapshot the progress before releasing the new rules

and we will get rewarded based on the snapshot before the new rules is launched

[warm forum]

So Bart point still stands, the current airdrop changes nothing about points, rules or distribution. The rules for the current airdrop remain the same

[timid kraken]

yea id like to compare the different approaches to airdrop points

[celest sierra]

We will have an announcement likely today about closing off the the preseason part 1 and transition to preseason part 2

Points will be tallied and restarted for preseason 2

[timid kraken]

LFG crafting!!

[celest sierra]

And it will be a completely different system

[timid kraken]

lets wait for that

[warm forum]

So let me get this straight. Hunt for airdrop will end and the points will be tallied, which means that airdrop rewards will be split in two parts? Also airdrop points will be reset and it will start again just for tasks/crafting

[celest sierra]

We will have a full blog on it today but essentially yes. That 30k ILV for testnet phase will be split.

[warm forum]

So now we have split airdrop rewards. So now you can understand when people say that the team change the rules without notice?

[timid kraken]

how about splitting it further.
some token allocated to crafting, some to illuvials, some to holos, and some to arena?
i personally prefer not to catch illuvials and just do mining and harvesting

[celest sierra]

Ok so a few things there. We always said there would be a second part where the focus shifted. We added 10k to the pot and the 20k will be for the first part and 10k for the second part

So you aren’t splitting anything you didn’t have

You’re getting the full 20k in the first part

[timid kraken]

first part is 20k token?

[celest sierra]

Yes

[timid kraken]

10k for crafting?

[celest sierra]

It’s not just crafting

If you wait for the blog

You will understand

[warm forum]

Here we know that 10k ILV was added as a bonus on the entire airdrop not in a future split for tasks

[timid kraken]

arena?

[timid kraken]

great, now i cant sleep

[floral crescent]

In my opinion, putting a full emphasis on crafting is not the best idea. Kraft has always been a secondary moment, and has been well-composed with quests. Perhaps if the reward will guide the player through every aspect then he will not burn out from the endless shooting into the stones. And the most important thing is that for what we collected illivials, and crafted weapons, players have to know that all this in order to then fight in the arena, it’s not an endless grind for a grind. All these stages are an important preparation for the main battle in the final with other players!

[sand flower]

@robust tinsel After reading the whitepaper and the explanation on the webpage about the airdrop, i feel like its really good actually how it is, and i think they have really thinked this trought really much. So from now im not gonna think about how the airdrop works and just play the game and enjoy it and even if i get 0.03 or 0.5ilv from the airdrop im Happy cause i got to play the game for free and learn alot of stuff until the mainnet where i actually have to pay to play the game you know;) All Love to Illuvium Team (A)

[timid kraken]

i have little interest in playing the arena or auto battler in general.
but ur right, rn ILV is about arena.
it is the end game and the main driver for revenue, asset prices.

[celest sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/you-dont-know-how-much-just-that-made-my-day-leah-assisted-living-s2e21-you-have-no-idea-how-happy-i-am-about-this-gif-24646340

[sand flower]

what do you mean 20k for the first part?

[sand flower]

i just hope i get 1ilv and ilv pops to 5k(A) lets goooooooooooo Illuvium im addicted to the game and love it

[burnt drift]

Will there be a bit of time scheduled before the close off so we have time to complete tiers/collections? E.g. a few days atleast

[celest sierra]

Yes

[stuck wyvern]

Does it mean that we will not get any point for a new illuvials in July?

[celest sierra]

You will get points in July and we will have details today for you

Australia today

[timid kraken]

its today ser

[sand flower]

I like that;) so in the middle of the night europe, no sleep for me:P

[pine sigil]

Truly curious that changes which completely rug new players are so thoroughly encouraged, while changes that have a slightly more equalizing impact vs private beta players spark unanimous outrage among those same people.

[surreal sail]

It's not about the change, it's about fixing a mistake.

[pine sigil]

Lmfao at the guilds brigading upvotes for these threads
Right out of the woodwork

OP has spent ~500 hours on pure set building, 16 hours per day since private beta. I wonder why he wants to completely separate the reward pools along with his guildmates!

[pine sigil]

lol

probably a good idea

[warm forum]

OP grinded the hell out of this game and think he deserves a fair share, why is that shady? Come on dude use your brain

[pine sigil]

Everyone who grinded then and those grinding now are getting their fair share in a relatively linear way. Stop being dishonest

-Private beta players get exclusive knowledge about the mechanics of the game and got to keep their points through open beta.
-The campaign is two months long, the holo changes occur ~1/4 of the way in. There is no issue.
-Private beta players most likely to have massive master shard inventories pre-nerf
-Total set points are not even publicly available to compare to total holo points

[stark lichen]

Personally I don't think the Holo and Dark Holo points were insane as long as they were aligned with rarity, which I cannot confirm.

However I echo @floral crescent that they fundamentally changed gameplay. What would have been nice is Holo Lines and sets grant you points, not individual Illuvials. A collectors wet dream 🤣

In the same vein that if individual Illuvial captures granted points as non holos, people would play entirely differently again, never ever catching stage 1 or 2, and simply entering and leaving regions to find stage 3s. It would have exactly the same problem on player behaviour, not sure why they changed tactics so drastically

[warm forum]

You clearly do not understand what happened with holo points but i'm not here to change the way you think. Good luck

[pine sigil]

Post wallet anytime and we can compare our 'understandings'

[pine sigil]

Yeah, the systems are definitely contradictory. I think the main question is how much faster points are being accumulated now vs 7 days prior to the change. (It's probably not that much greater than 2.5x)

[stark lichen]

Out of curiosity. If I calculated total set/holo points later today (I've been meaning to). What ratio would make you have a varying opinion?

[pine sigil]

I would have preferred none of the changes to have happened, but to answer your question, >3.5x

[stark lichen]

To be clear I am unsure if I could calc rate of change, but I could certainly get holo vs non holo points as it stands

[pine sigil]

Pure comparison is a little tricky though. Private beta players inefficiently carried their points over prior to understanding the criteria, and when holo points get introduced, most players have a good understanding of the mechanics

[stark lichen]

As much as I appreciate that point of view and think it factors in. I think you give too much weight to the depth of the mechanics honestly. What's more relevant is the capture odds being broken previously and the master shard changes, as you mentioned previously

[pine sigil]

I'm not saying it's a useless comparison, it will be good info. But the fact that people spent the first month not being entirely sure if their inventories would be wiped/counted for open beta (among other things, like new players getting to know the game once it went open), that inefficiency matters when comparing implied rates

The master shard changes and capture odds were only devastating if they didn't introduce holo points alongside it. Anyone playing after those changes would be playing ~80% less efficiency than those who put in work prepatch

[floral crescent]

@pine sigil I’m sorry, because of my bad English you didn’t understand what I really meant and what the depth is

[stark lichen]

If you are talking about veterans of the game being more efficient with Holo hunting versus the newcomers then yeah I agree. But there's no degrees of separation between those like Bart who played 700 hours and those like a majority who played 100 hours pre Holo. They'd have the exact same level of knowledge, the ceiling isn't exactly high.

As someone who's been tracking the daily and weekly active players I can tell you a vast majority are of that group and Holos brought back many existing players but very few new players

[floral crescent]

If you reduce the entry to 2-3 minutes a day you can do 250-350 hits, at this frequency their rarity is blurred, among my audience there are guys who are very good at speedrun and are also able to count, and their results are very good, for 10 days 500K+ minimum, but they all unanimously said that this style of play is terrible and you want to delete the game after 3 days of such races. For those who are interested in glasses have to go for it.

[stark lichen]

When approving the recent proposal my reasoning was closely aligned with gameplay like yourself: #📯〕council-chambers message

The council is in discussions about this entire topic and have been for more than a week now. Don't worry we hear you and are debating the topics

[floral crescent]

It’s true, the OW now only needs a good strategy and a lot of time, skills it already about the arena

[pine sigil]

We have multiple wallets pulling a set per day pre-holo (50k+ points!) What is your point, exactly?

[stark lichen]

A set per day is 50k? Are those multiple wallets operated by a single individual? I am genuinely trying to understand the top non holo speed here

[pine sigil]

Set plus line t5 aggregate is 40k, among other captures they pull, yeah. By bart's own logic, the point accumulation rates pre and post-holo are comparable

Which I don't even fully agree with

[stark lichen]

A single player is capturing an entire T5 set in 1 day. I haven't played enough to know but that sounds impressive. If thats comparable to holos then fair enough 🙂

[pine sigil]

It's done through progressive capturing of stage 1 and 2, and fusing them through a lot of combat. 13 individual per line. Finding s2 and s3 obviously speeds it up even faster. If they find a Jotun in addition, for example, they can sell it for another boost.

I was following a wallet in particular that was smoothly meeting that rate

I think Bart would essentially qualify as well, among others

[stark lichen]

Interesting, thanks for the insight. You definitely couldn't deny Holo hunting would be like 100x easier 🤣 . Not sure if thats entirely relevant, but its interesting

[floral crescent]

And how many Tier 5 sets does he have now? If he has 35+ tier 5 sets it is impressive

[pine sigil]

I can check, but it's obviously going to be skewed since the systems became contradictory.

[floral crescent]

now I only have 14 tier 5 sets, by the end of the week will be 16 or 17, I’m not as good at this as those guys that you follow

[pine sigil]

14 complete? I'd have to see if you have extra s1's and market volume

He's at about 13, which is close to 1 per day of open beta pre-holo

I know that you personally continued setfarming post-holo

[bronze remnant]

still waiting since 9 hours ago

[celest sierra]

imminent

impending

[vernal mural]

FAX
Then the game will turn into a speedrun: everyone will enter the steppes, run through 60-70% of the red zone in 3 minutes to see if there are DH or H, and re-enter. They will do this numerous times a day. They will do it not because they like this gameplay, but because with this points system, it is more effective.

[pine sigil]

Are the holo points included in s1?
Unclear from blog

[celest sierra]

Yes

[pine sigil]

W change

[stark lichen]

first paragraph

[celest sierra]

Unclear?

[stark lichen]

Change? At no point was it said Holos wont be included in S1 was it?

[pine sigil]

Okay turns out it was clear 🙂

[celest sierra]

Im so confused now lol

[pine sigil]

wasnt talking about that, talking about seasons in general
ostensibly it was just going to be this system until the 25th

[stark lichen]

Ah yeah, I am happy they are changing it up and having a cutoff point, big W for me too

[pine sigil]

should have gotten a header or smth here tbh

the word 'holo' not mentioned until blogpost 3, rather than the s1 points breakdown 🤔

[floral crescent]

Arena

[copper sorrel]

the airdrop were totally nerfed when the ethereal came out. what you people are doing defending nerfing holo points is defend your big slice in the airdrop, nothing more.

[worthy lava]

do we know how many total point we have rn?

[floral crescent]

Now you can count only H and DH

[timid kraken]

@floral crescent how do u feel about the latest airdrop announcement?

im guessing mission based points should be better?
they can create missions to target specific feature of the game
i was expecting it would be activity-based, mission based since the beginning, instead of just snapshotting wallets

maybe they werent ready before

[floral crescent]

1. I’m glad the phase with the search H and DH is over.
2. Missy, this is great, but until we know exactly how it’s going to work, I’m really looking forward to it. I hope they won’t be too easy and make the players more familiar with the game. The more you learn about the game, the more you fall in love with it. Missions are a guide to all aspects of the OW. They should have been there from the beginning, but I take it by the beginning of OB was not all ready.
3. Bug reports. Do you need them at all? Is there any benefit to the team? Is it worth paying attention to them? Maybe there are some specific tasks from developers that you need to pay attention to or help with. If they are useful, please guide us. And those who will send the most important Kieran Happy Birthday. As I said, I thought that error feedback was the most important and important part of the transfer mein net. But I may be wrong.
4. Arena, a lot of people were waiting for some news about the arena while they were gone.
5. In general, our car would not have been thrown aside, the team twists the steering wheel in the right direction.

[naive plume]

@celest sierra are there additional systems in place that flag people who are "gaming the system" by unafking every 15min? something like accounts that have under x amount of points from catching illuvials are disqualified? airdrop farmers for sure have bots that unafk every 15 min

[celest sierra]

We dont really want to share too many details on our systems but essentially we can check scenarios like one you mentioned.

But it really wont matter pre-season 2. As its mission based

[naive plume]

perfect. its better to not share for sure 👍

[timid kraken]

a bigger issue to address is if there are undetected exploiter

[floral crescent]

The time for which points are awarded goes with PB or OB?

[opal gazelle]

I wouldn't be so sure that it just won't matter anymore... People gonna cheat their way through those missions as well.

[naive plume]

i think he was just referring to the afk bots

[opal gazelle]

Yeah, cuz that's a huge problem! :-p

[celest sierra]

https://tenor.com/view/the-lord-of-the-rings-the-return-of-the-king-sauron-eye-sauron-eye-gif-23222701

[opal gazelle]

We can only hope!

[rotund kernel]

This is brilliantly written @floral crescent
In my web3 experience the I my rewards system I have felt that works, is seasons that require you to play the game as intended.
The ones I have seen do the best are Blocklords.
You can pay (small fee, roughly $10 AUD) to boost your rewards, yet the main line is achievable. It's set in blocks. Make this, reach this ext and get this, the on to the next until the season is over.
They do use in game resources, token and hero nfts to reward.

I haven't been able to play as much as I would like, and barely have 1000 points, yet have contributed and continue to contribute to bug finding and suggestions.

I do see it as being marketing rather than a systematic rewards system. I'm guessing for eyes and churn.

I hear you in this and support whatever you decide to do.

Thanks for your efforts.
❤️

One thing I will mention is that, yes, the team read bug reports and feedback, and do appreciate them.
Keep being awesome.

[lunar osprey]

And now people in the OW channel started trading ALOT. You know this could be all those cheaters, and everyone that trades with them could and probably should be excluded from the rewards.. So much DH in the chats, how? This is getting out of control.. everyone that took time and played the game to get some rewards from it will just get a little drop from it now.. so unfair!

[sullen badger]

I agree with you BarT, but sadly it's too late to change, if this were permanent it would be really bad. And I think everyone agrees on it.

[bright ermine]

The rules have been changed many times during the event.
We were also recently informed that the event will end this month.
I don't think it's too late.

Currently, trading is done to maximize points.
Just buy a T5S1DH on the market and get 33% twice to get 1 million points.

I now feel I am earning points for gambling.
Is this what management had in mind?

[regal sequoia]

yeah.. Watched some of your streams and actions in the game, you must have a lot of points 🙂

[opal gazelle]

I've only been here about a month, but yes... The whole system is gambling. Curious how the tax and government rules apply to these new ecosystems. You pay your five dollar stage three entry fee and hope you find a prize that is worth more than the ticket. 🙂

It's a cool concept for sure, and I am happy to have been able to learn it while is is free.

[opal gazelle]

Hell yeah, that guy shreds through the levels like crazy. It convinced me to turn back on autoslide, having it off is brutally less efficient, unfortunately.

[regal sequoia]

that multiplied with the time spent in game should yield a lot of points.. regardless of luck and gambles. when numbers increase -> luck plays a smaller role

[opal gazelle]

Yeah he's up over the 2 million mark for sure.

[regal sequoia]

definately, if not 3m, wouldnt be surprised if he has 2x my points

[timid kraken]

it is gacha

[bright ermine]

I just wrote it because I empathized with it as someone who has played a lot of games.

And now I've won that gamble.