divide point for holos by at least 20

[long jackal]

I get that you want to give new players a chance to catch up but these numbers just spit in the face of everybody who played a lot during the last two weeks.

Topic is now findable in governance-ideas #1251221577119432805 message
Please make sure to vote there.

[restive widget]

Those who will win most are those who are luckiest, not those who supported the project the most
does not make sense

[lime inlet]

catching ALL illuvials gives you 10k points, let that be at least be a T3S5 dark holo illuvial

[restive widget]

I thought the idea of ​​air drops was for players who helped with the game's development to get feedback, not those who were luckier.

[wise niche]

Yes! Instead of multiplying by 5 each stage, you could do like 2x and decrease the initial value as well.
For example: T5 Holo
Stage1: 4000
Stage2: 8000
Stage3: 16000

[restive widget]

it has to be a score based on the collection please, nothing that exorbitant
1 catch > 2 entire collection, no sense

[unkempt geode]

totally agree : collection is way more important that to have luck an finding a holo T5S3

[restive widget]

[burnt tulip]

Of course!! Is no sense now

[robust forge]

Even if it's very rare, it's not fair that someone who plays 1 hour a day will be in the top 1% in the end because they were lucky

[tardy silo]

this point is a joke compare to the holo/darkholo point

[restive widget]

Makes the idea of ​​an air drop become a game of luck

Not game support as people are tired of saying

I'm not here to play tiger

I'm here to help the game at the beginning and who knows, maybe I'll win something

[burnt tulip]

They have to make a new airdrop with new leaderboard for holo conpetition!! This is another thing!! We played so much houres for somethingelse

[long jackal]

yeah, that would work too 15k ILV now and 15k ILV for holo hunt

[restive widget]

I completely agree, why not a competition like mega hunt?

[solemn meteor]

well this also says all illuvials traded count towards airdrop and that might be changed too so at this point anything can happen i guess

[restive widget]

It completely broke the idea of ​​the airdrop being due to support, and behind the idea of ​​it being due to luck

[tardy silo]

yeah maybe 10k more ilv just for holo/dark holo points cause if they just mixed up the point its just like we all playing from 0 again

[burnt tulip]

No!! Ours are 30k ilv, stop, not splitted!! The holo conpetition should be a different thing

[restive widget]

100k '-' Why are you always being so drastic?
1 catch, just ONE CATCH

[burnt tulip]

-0

[restive widget]

I should be playing behind holos now instead of wanting a better game and a fairer system

Well, I already explained my opinion, I hope you review it, that you at least think about it,

[long jackal]

right, for that we already have the raffle

[restive widget]

I agree, it doesn't make sense to make the airdrop that is supposed to be community support, be a gacha game

[latent nest]

I agree

[restive widget]

300 hours of gameplays vs lucky
lucky wins *

[mossy iron]

TRUE.

Thanks DAO Team for my 400h, you just threw them away.

[mossy iron]

Get rekt again

[restive widget]

In fact, they gave more value to whoever caught the colorful animal

[unborn stone]

Everyone here acts like people who played 100’s of hours have worse odds at getting (dark) holo’s than newcomers.

But that’s not the case, so to me this thread seems (almost) as weird as wanting to ban lotteries. Because, -insert lovable deity here- forbid, someone purchases a piece of paper containing some random numbers and wins more money in a few minutes than someone else does in half a lifetime.

Slightly exaggerated analogy aside, people love rng and the implied entitlement to win big. So why wouldn’t Illuvium take advantage of that in their P2A campaign?

[mossy iron]

True

[restive widget]

They can do this with the game, but doing this with the airdrop supports the idea that it is a game of chance not community support

Now, a person who captured 1 animal has just passed 2x any other person on the score

[mossy iron]

I wonder how many more times they will just change the rules in the airdrop? What's next?!

[unborn stone]

So they aren't allowed to deliver meaningful updates in an open beta that's designed to make the game better, get more people hooked and thrive as an ecosystem? You just want less competition for free money?

[restive widget]

No feedback from the community yet on this,

If I wanted free money I would be after the holos, not an idea of ​​healthier and more balanced competition

[mossy iron]

classic

[unborn stone]

I don't think one can choose to go after (dark) holo's. If that does turn out to be the case, then of course you have a point. But I seriously doubt that will be backed by the statistics.

[restive widget]

people who supported the community for weeks today have less value than people who were lucky

[long jackal]

okay, trying to break this down:
Lets say you work 2 hours with the following conditions: (time+effort) x 1 = cash points
After two weeks your chef says I will change the conditions (you did not know that) - new conditions: (time+effort) x 100 = cash points
After one month we take the amount X and divide it by all cash points. People get paid accordingly. Would you think that your time and effort during the first two weeks are respected? Would you even want to work further in a situation like that? Or would you think that the conditions could change again and after two weeks you are faced with (time+effort)*10000 and therefore stop working at all?

[unborn stone]

It's an open beta for a game in development, Illuvium is not your employer.

We are lucky to play the game before (hopefully) the masses and get an advantage that way. Anything else is just a nice bonus.

That said, the hypothetical changes in your example are maybe somewhat arbitrary, but they are not discriminatory.

[latent nest]

Diug

[mossy iron]

rugpull

[feral prism]

the amount of points for holo and dark holo are too much. And they are not really rare at all. In 3 runs I get 8 holos. Some are worth more than entire families of lower tiers. I feel the same as some here, the time and effort put on since open beta (setting aside clsoed beta which was a bonus) is going to be nullified by some luck factor. I'll keep grinding but I feel the same as many here

[static copper]

I personally think they should 10x the points

Hahahaha the same people who love the master shard nerf hate this change. Love to see it

[long jackal]

Sure, but a people put more time into this because of the airdrop and now they are just stripped of their promised share.

Aside from that we could also talk about the following:
With this crazy amounts we aren't even testing the normal gameloop anymore. People will just jump around and hunt holos. Is that a realistic behaviour for mainnet? Ofc. not because holos will be even rarer and you have to pay for a run. I just wanted to write a longer feedback regarding the state of the OW gameloop and what is missing in my opinion but I guess that doesn't matter because now we have to jump around collecting holos. These new point system even kills the entire purpose of this testing phase.

[unborn stone]

I just don't see this as negative. Don't we want more people to come in and try the game?

This change incentivizes latecomers to join and to not have a herculean feeling (not necessarily a reality because of the amount of luck needed) when trying to catch up to the existing player base. Newbies who happen to get lucky will be more inclined to stay (and grind like the rest of us). I doubt they'll leave after catching a dark holo Ophisto. So they'll put in the hours too.

And again, if you're going to grind anyway, I'd say you still have a better chance at "getting lucky" than someone who plays sporadically. So I doubt this change will result in a zero sum game at the end of the airdrop.

[long jackal]

I agree on your sentiment but that is not what happened here. I even opened another thread about something similar because I felt that it is way harder to get entries for the raffle by now (#1250811253081903217 message). These changes have to have some proportion to the previous point system. You can easily go ahead and go for a 1.5-2.5 factor for points over the course of the air drop. Everything above this is just disrespecting people and losing people because of it. I wouldn't be surprised if people just stop playing because of this. Who knows maybe in two weeks I can get 1 Billion points by crafting a weapon. The trust that the team doesn't do something like that, would break if this holo-madness isn't reworked.
Furthermore as I said it is important to test out the economical gameloop during this beta. We aren't doing that anymore if this madness persists.

[unborn stone]

I fully agree with you that they should prioritize the economical gameloop. Problem is, they can't really do that with fake money and without zero (which is another topic of course).

All I can say is that I stopped playing because of the broken shard system. And they fixed that (or it feels much better, at least). So if people are equally or more bothered by this change, they could just quit for a few days/weeks. If they really played 100's of hours they'll probably come back with withdrawal symptoms soon enough.

But for me the game starts on the 25th of July. That's when players would have a right to criticize these kinds of changes. Up until that point it's just playing with fake money to earn some pocket change. So for now I would advocate to give the team carte blanche with just about everything.

[feral prism]

Checking the market and cross referencing with scoriox spreadsheet players who had 4k, 5k and now own a Holo T5ST3 are now 100k up by catching one. I have 220k points and I'm feeling all my effort going down the drain. Well, I guess it is what it is. Going to take a brake from grinding 12hrs a day and rethink my time playing before mainnet. Played since closed beta and grinded that even though there was no points announced back them, i have 287hrs played. I think I have a voice on the matter

[mossy iron]

💯

[long jackal]

ok, in that case we will have to agree that we disagree. I will sleep for now and push this later today in a rough form like "reduce Holo points down to reach a effective point factor of roughly 1.5 on (effort+time) in regards to previous weeks" to gov. ideas if the team doesn't responds to this. We already have 25 votes within 2 hours.

[unborn stone]

Concerning all things airdrop I would find it very peculiar if any proposal that counters a recent change would not get instantly upvoted by at least 0.00125% of the player base.

But I agree to disagree then.

[pure cedar]

I love all of you

[radiant delta]

So, will you reduce it rich?

[pure cedar]

It’s not up to me

But I disagree

But I like to see governance at work

[mossy iron]

What do you disagree with?

[pure cedar]

I don’t think this spits in anyone’s face

It levels the playing field

Again

The top 10 players in airdrop points have 360 hours average

You can sit here and say yes “anyone could join today and take the lead” but will those in the top 10 if continued on their current hourly trajectory be at a disadvantage?

Absolutely not

[mossy iron]

with out private beta?

[pure cedar]

They will probably have the most holo and dark holo

[pure cedar]

In airdrop points. So yes since pb 4

They never had the opportunity for holos until everyone did

This doesn’t hurt them at all

It enables them to go further ahead and others a chance to catch up

[mossy iron]

I've had 400 hours since the beginning, from the private beta, and I don't believe I'm in the top 10. There's no way

[lime inlet]

remember as a kid when you were losing 10-2 and the last minute you said ''ok last goal wins all''

[pure cedar]

I don’t know what to tell you, that’s the numbers

[mossy iron]

I think you are wrong. This is now about finding someone who just started playing T5S3 and winning the top.

It's about how now AIRDROP is based on RNG and not on grinding

[pure cedar]

They won’t though lol

If someone started today

Caught that T5S3 today

They get a million points

The top 500 are averaging over 160 hours

1st place currently will easily surpass that on their current hourly trajectory

1m points won’t be the end all be all

[unkempt geode]

and average player from the PB4?

I'am playing 2hours a day since the start of the PB4 and i'll be surpassed easily by lucky players that start now...

[radiant delta]

But i think they can't beat high tier illuvial on arena

[unkempt geode]

they will be able to in 1 week

[radiant delta]

I know. But we ran first. So we have more chance than newest. I think that's what rich though

[unkempt geode]

Airdrop is still for lucky people now..
Not for those who were there day 1 and supporting the project from the beginning

[pure cedar]

People who played from the beginning still have the head start and the same chances to get ahead

[unkempt geode]

that's where i disagree. People from the beginning should be wayyyyyy ahead. Too much "efforts"

[pure cedar]

And they are

They had master shards galore

[restive sequoia]

The P2A started with grind to airdrop.
Now it's luck to airdrop.

[pure cedar]

Ppl were dishing out master shards meme coins

[unkempt geode]

Nooo. all my master shards were used to catch T5. I am by far ahead in number of T5/T4

[unkempt geode]

but it's useless now because points for holo are overtuned

[restive sequoia]

yup

[lime inlet]

what about zero players? what chance do they have?

they just got straight up dilluted x20 or close

[pure cedar]

I guess there is an argument for zero only players. But they would’ve been naturally behind in the current system like arena only players would be. So that’s a different conversation I think

[static copper]

It's an overworld campaign
You'll have your moment

[pure cedar]

So it’s even playing field?

[lime inlet]

no need to guess. there is an argument, and its part of the same conversation in my opinion

[unkempt geode]

Sorry i dont understand the question, my english is not that good

[pure cedar]

This was known from the beginning how it would work during testnet for those the 3 games until Mainnet.

We will have points added to zero.

And arena at some point

[tardy silo]

Why is t2s3 dark holo point is bigger than t3s3?

[lime inlet]

cant wait for my chance to win 1m points in zero

[static copper]

? youre going to make one billion dollars on mainnet launch. Let's have some perspective...

[pure cedar]

It’s cause the Lynx

[pure cedar]

This is the testnet phase

30k ILV

For Mainnet There is 180k with different tasks then we have now

This is just for testnet

[lime inlet]

i don't see how thats relevant

i also don't think this conversation will get anywhere. It is clear this announcement was a marketing one. To get tweets and ticktocks saying '' come play its still posible to earn a lot with this new thing in illuvium''.Thats about it, we both know its unfair to all who spent time playing these past weeks

no need to stretch this conversation any longer, cheers

[pure cedar]

I don’t see how it’s unfair still. Everyone has the same opportunity from when holos started

Agree to disagree though

On that point

[tardy silo]

what is the probability of finding a holo and a dark holo illuvial?

Is that 5% and 1% or lesser

[wild valley]

https://tenor.com/view/the-universe-has-to-balance-itself-bill-burr-saturday-night-live-balanced-universe-equilibrium-gif-18837624

[rapid dove]

Introducing new tasks during an airdrop phase is a very risky move. On one side, I can see the advantages for Illuvium: it could increase engagement by providing a fresh challenge, and newcomers might feel more invited since everything starts at zero now. This reset could boost the number of participants in the ecosystem, increase DAU, and enhance the data they receive on their end.

However, there's the obvious frustration of players who have spent a lot of time increasing their point gap. This change could also be seen as unfair and might decrease trust in the developers, making players skeptical about future changes in future events and might lead to such big frustration people leaving the ecosystem. When the score essentially resets an unknown number of times during events, it could lead to low participation overall, as uncertainty might keep players away from investing time (and money) until the very end. Especially in a ecosystem where real money has to be spent on a daily basis, there should be somewhat consistency in events, but also all other aspects.

In my opinion, giving holos/darkholos a significant number of points (without going overboard to make previous progress insignificant) so newcomers see a potential chance for a substantial share, even if they don't see a chance of getting first place, would have attracted new players and boosted numbers without sacrificing the efforts of players who have already put massive time into farming those points.

To be clear, I’m not saying changes can't be made. It's a beta, and features need to be tested. There might be times when the team needs data on certain features to balance the game, and such changes could even bring a fresh wind into an event. However, already made progress should be respected. It should have bee clearly stated that additional tasks will offer new ways of acquiring airdrop points or that resets of "leaderboards" will occur multiple times during the event beforehand.

[winged ginkgo]

Definitely keen on a nerf for holo points. SepETH whales also might be able to score some ridicolous points if holos are being sold on the dex as well.

[rapid dove]

according to the announcement, bought holos don't count

[winged ginkgo]

Ooo nice. Missed that, thanks!

[restive sequoia]

how about bought holos then fused

[restive sequoia]

it does

[clear glacier]

The more ive played the more i like the changes and its really refreshing having a great way to far airdrop points.

Over the next 1.5 months luck will be in the favour of the grinders. Excluding maybe a few players that get a dark holo S3T5 (btw that ophisto wasnt dark holo)

Wouldnt mind seeing it a little tuned down but i like that its more points than grinding t5 sets

[rapid dove]

source?

[restive sequoia]

and i think i saw a mod confirmed that

[rapid dove]

two options... capture or fuse

[unborn stone]

If you own it, you get the points. So marketplace purchases count.

[rapid dove]

So why he mentions specifically 2 options, which none of those are buying?

[unborn stone]

Control f general and you'll find Rich confirming this multiple times, I believe.

[radiant delta]

@pure cedar would u clarify this. did holo and dark holo purchased are count points?

[long jackal]

Honestly, that the team is not seeing this is a big problem on its own. You have shown that you can't manage an airdrop consistently, broke trust and disrespected the time of others. I only saw one other project that managed airdrops and stuff like this that badly. The project doesn't exist anymore. I really hope you will understand and learn from this because with decisions like this you are damaging your core playerbase. It seems it is not understood how groundbreaking this because you throw away the trust that was given to you by not being able to handle an event consistently. An airdrop like this shouldn't be a raffle and instead should hand out rewards based on the time a person invests in the game.
Imagine this: The team partly gets paid in ILV, right? Lets just transfer 99% of the value ILV holds to "new ILV" (Lets pretend it is that easy) . You got your old ILV which are now worth only 1% of the original value but we can start over with new ILV and every employee has the same chances to get a big part of the share. That is good, right? I mean old team members can't have a problem with that because they are the hard workers anyway and if they follow their normal work trajectory they will get a big share of the "new ILV"-token as well.

• I agree on the sentiment that the system needs some tuning because with the new odds new players wouldn't get enough points for their time.
• For that reason I said myself that we should include fused Ophistos and such into the raffle because new users wouldn't have the chance to get tickets (See other post in feedback-ideas).
• The new system can value time higher than the old to give new users a chance to catch up without harming old users too much. You just have to look at your numbers and evalute how much points the average top 1000 player got per hour on average. Your new target should be around 1.5-2.0 x "old point average per hour".
• The airdrop points should align with planned gameloop. @restive dust

Short Takes on the gameloop prior to holo-madness (to give a better direction for airdrop points) (not the important part and propably not that well thought out):

• xp grind more important now
• around 2 T5S1 per run
• with a team that uses 6/8 slots for xp, I need around 9.6 runs to get enough xp for a stage 3 (old numbers need to update them).
• So I get around 19 t5 Illuvials per Stage 3
• I could catch a lot of other Illuvials during this time but most of them are worth nothing because I cant get enough xp to level them up.
• Integrity limits me to like 8 fights per run
• I need a reason to go out and not just take the first 8 Illuvials
• Sure holos can a be reason but it should be around even with the amount you get for completing sets (even on a time investment scale) - for example every hole regardless of tier or stage gives 1k airdrop points
• For mainnet A burning mechanism which uses stage 2+ and tier 2+ to do one of the following (just examples) is needed:
• strengthening other Illuvials in any way (xp, omega boost, stat boost)
• base development
• ingame credits which are used to buy items for Illuvials
• researching buffs
• unlocking areas
• achivements
• quests

[grave shore]

To capture a T5S3 might be so rare that nobody even gets one for the whole campaign. You guys are acting like they are everywhere.
#🎮〕illuvium-overworld message

So even if someone would catch it you would lose the competition against a single player while still competing with 20k+ players. THis is no different from the mega hunt raffle where there is only 1 big win and players who play the most have highest chance. The same now goes for holos. Everybody can be lucky. The more you play the higher chance that you are the one who is lucky.

[rapid dove]

you don't need a t5s3 to get rank1 .. a few smaller ones are enough.
And it's also not really about getting rank1, the dilution of the the top players gets real, meaning their share will likely get way smaller.

[grave shore]

which everybody can get

[rapid dove]

sure

[grave shore]

If the holo drop rates are balanced then it won't be the case that all our playtime gets worthless because new player get more points by just 1 - 2 lucky catches. Because if the higher tiers/stages are very rare it will be more of a grind who plays the most and gets the most low tier/stage holos for bonus points. Which rewards time > luck

Some will get lucky ofc. But we have 20k+ players. And excluding the lucky ones everybody can still compete wit 99.9% of the players

I won't vote against the proposal because I don't really care how high the points are. Because they are the same for veeryone. If the are high, ok if the get lowered then everyone gets punished. So I can't see a disadvantage in either solution

[long jackal]

a airdrop shouldn't be a raffle and I am also disappointed that it seems we have to push something this obvious to the DAO

[rapid dove]

yea totally fine, if they wana do lottery, a lottery it is.
My point is you shouldn't change stuff mids't airdrop/event to that extend.
Sure you can fuck arround now, we are in testnet. Set progress back to 2% and move on with some new cool stuff.
But if we are live on mainnet and money is involved, and you come up after 2 weeks and say to people, sorry all your money spent is basically worthless we now having an update to the event. It goes pretty much in the same direction they did with yea pb4 is just flat points and change after the event oh no we count points now totally different than we said.
That's the stuff shitstorms are made off

[grave shore]

But I would love to see the points stay that high. Because I want to see someone who gambles his single T5 Illuvial for fusion to see if he gets the next stage T5 in holo too or if he looses it 😂

[long jackal]

agree, it seems people miss how trust-breaking this is. If this isn't reworked I lost my trust that anything we do later on will have any worth and I not the only one for sure.

[unborn stone]

1000000 points makes for great marketing, and it gives newcomers the feeling to be able to easily catch up (when in reality that shouldn't be the case of course). So I did vote down. Not that it matters per se.

[calm current]

Why not split the airdrop reward. Since Kieran throw additional 10k ILV why not have split the reward for the regular points and the holo points. Retain the original 20k reward and 10k for the holo points. We will have a reward for effort base and luck base points.

[restive sequoia]

maybe a solution is split the testnet airdrop into 2 parts.
first part pre holo ending on the 25th of june and second part with holo points ending 25th of july

that way everyone starts the same in the 2nd part

[grave shore]

But isn't that more confusing? People alraedy don't understand the current campaign even if it is just an addition of holos. Then why shuffle things around and make it more confusing? And if you split it then we have the same problem of PB4/OB. How to distinguish Illuvials before/after the timreframe?

And everybody is starting from the same point now. It is not that some got early access to holos

[restive sequoia]

we gonna have the same problem with mainnet if they still do the calculation by snapshoting your wallet

[grave shore]

no. we get a reset for mainnet

[restive sequoia]

mainnet is a monthly snapshot

[grave shore]

ah. ok. you mean that

[restive sequoia]

over 5 months
if they use the same way to calculate points u gonna carry it over

so testnet part 1 snapshot exclude holo,
testnet part 2 include holo

[grave shore]

But wouldn't that be more unfair to make a snapshot from yesterday? For example I still did not finish a T5 set because I knew I have time until next month and plan accordingly. Now I would have gotten airdrop points on an incomplete state of my collection

[restive sequoia]

well everyone's plan dont work with the holo right

someone's plan doesnt work with the ethereal patch too

releasing new rules is fine as long as u do it in the following season

not during in the middle of a season

[grave shore]

why? It is just an addition to the current system? And I prefer an announcement (like we got now) over some change afterwards where you cannot react to it. The only issue is that they should have made the holo airdrop announcement some time before the release of holos. not with it.

[restive sequoia]

i like to think that they just figured it out.
i mean who knows maybe next week they intro something else.
crafting bonus is still not launched yet

[grave shore]

Yes. They announced that they will add ways to earn airdrop points by crafting. At least for that people are prepared (if someone actually reads these articles)

[rapid dove]

I guess we See 2 more Phase.
Choose wisely which one you wana play 🙃

[restive sequoia]

what if next week they introduce 1m points for owning 100 master shards? and people who have been using them get mad?

[restive sequoia]

the suspense is real lol

https://tenor.com/view/never-let-them-know-your-next-move-gif-1404529845177187882

[rapid dove]

last phase might be all airdrop points deleted and pot gets splitt up between the 3 people who cought the dark holo exalted water flish and got the bounty

big rewards... good for marketing 🙂

[grave shore]

I mean I get that people are here for airdrop points. But some just dont want the game to advance. They just want to run around 12+ hours a day, click illuvials, instant catch with master shard, wait for airdrop to end, move on. Which is fine.
But we also need to improve the game and get something people actually play for fun. And not just grinding meaningless repetitive loops. So I was not too surprised that ethereals came (because people voted for it) or that they now introduce new ways to get people to test a new feature. But I am also not here to make a living out of this airdrop. So maybe I can't understand some peoples reason to be angry. i am just here to help to improve the game i invested alot of money in. And I won't stop just because someone is angry that he misses out on a 100$

[rapid dove]

you know thats not what this thread is about?

[grave shore]

It is about people complaining that they earn less money when someone else catches a holo and they don't. It is also about the fact that people are angry that the airdrop campaign changed.

[rapid dove]

i feel it's more about you could have done that all without damaging existing playerbase

[grave shore]

As I said. I don't understand everyones reason for being salty about the holo change. So you can have your thread back. I said what I wanted to say

[rapid dove]

but maybe i'm actually wrong 😄

[unborn stone]

I just don't see how it damages them though.

[grave shore]

yes, maybe there have been a better way. I said I would like to have those announcements more in advance. But maybe they wanted to surprise us with holos and didn'T think about that people would actually be angry instead of happy. You cannot plan for everything I guess 😄

[rapid dove]

nono, ser.
everyone loves the holos i feel

at least that what i heared in voicechats

[grave shore]

But with that debate around them it doesn't feel like massive hype. Which would have been great to get that

[rapid dove]

yea.
I mean, if you introduce an amazing feature but steal peoples time at the same time, don't expect eveyone being hyped...

[grave shore]

I love them. The best part about them is to see the game progress and get better and more complete with every update 🙂

[rapid dove]

totally... soon missions, soon ow battles, soon gauntlet... it's all about to drop
even zero will come somehow somewhen 😄

https://tenor.com/view/the-matrix-very-exciting-its-a-very-exciting-time-exciting-time-good-times-gif-22125567

[unborn stone]

I mean, you can't just waltz into the game and expect to be able to catch a higher tier (Dark) Holo. You need to grind to be able to and be lucky enough to encounter one. So people with 100's of hours are actually still at an advantage with this change, I would say. At least they can catch one if they see one, which won't be the case for a newbie mining higher stages.

[rapid dove]

yea it's a casual 3 day or a hardcore 1.5 day advantage 😄

[tardy silo]

The main problem here is how hard dark holo can be found in the overworld and how many S3T5 Dark holo will be at the end of the event. If its gonna be around 50-100 dark holo thats not gonna be real problem but that mean lucky person got the most point no matter how long you play

[cyan bronze]

Its because the new holo/dark holo seems boosted. So even if everyone has the same chance people feel that their previous efforts got diluted

[unborn stone]

Not for mainstreamers. Most people can't just afford spending time like that on a whim to play a game.

[rapid dove]

yea so casual 3 day.
maybe should have added Husbands 7-14 days until they cought up. But they have to blame themselve 😄

[restive sequoia]

yes, so u understand.
the ideal way to do P2A is to clearly state the rules and dnt change it mid season.
imagine if its a sport tournament and they change the rules midway.

[unborn stone]

Again, at the end of the airdrop this won't be a zero sum game. Unless they make drop rates too generous. Which I doubt.

[restive sequoia]

lets say performance enhancement is banned in a tournament, then mid way it is allowed

[rapid dove]

i don't know what you mean with that... not native english, maybe i just don't get it

[unborn stone]

That's the point, it gives newbies a theoretical shot. When in reality, it's as rare as winning the lottery (or kind of).

[restive sequoia]

everyone that didnt grind much maybe and now they have a good chance to catch up

[restive sequoia]

not really a grind.
The gameplay now is to run around and re enter

[rapid dove]

no, it's not about holos and you can get points with them.
It's about the size of the points you get.
Talked to some hardcore grinders, they fucking love the holos.... at least the dark holos...

[restive sequoia]

thats my point, it eclipse the previous meta

[unborn stone]

Wasn't that the gameplay before?

[rapid dove]

and no i'm not talking about t5s3 only.
it's the general points you can get with dark holos and holos... and we will see i guess by how much they increase the total amount of points earned by all players, but i guess it is more than many would expect.

[restive sequoia]

Partly with ethereal, but rn u just want to encounter holo. its turning the P2A into a slot machine

before, the meta was capture S2, grind XP, fuse.
now just holo

well if u capture 3 of the same holo u will grind xp again but thats later

[unborn stone]

You can still fuse holo, right?

[cyan bronze]

The million point perhaps but a t4s1 dark holo (idk the odds) is equal to a full line of t5 which require multiple hours of grind

Im all for the addition of holo/dark holo to give a better chance for new comers, since the ethereal change, and i like the random aspect and big lotto jackpot for marketing its just that now without the odds and just seeing the points it does seem boosted

[restive sequoia]

the addition of points should complement, not replacing the previous meta

[unborn stone]

I doubt they will release the odds, but I trust the team to adjust accordingly. So it's rough speculating without actual numbers, but I would guess even T4S1 will be rather rare. If they're not, than this proposal has ,somewhat, more merit.

But you get experience too while playing, not just your illuvials 😉 Which would of course benefit you when the real game starts. And I hope there's still some fun involved and not just the promise of free money.

[unborn stone]

There were always going to be multiple phases in the airdrop. At least that was my understanding.

It's also an open beta. I don't think team knew when holo would have been playable so people would have probably rioted more if it turned out they weren't ready on time.

[clear glacier]

i think this actually gives us grinders a chance to beat test eth whales. We can grind holos and lvls while they can no longer really buy up points like they have previously

[cyan bronze]

They can buy holo though

[clear glacier]

surely people wont sell holos since they are all good individual points

[unborn stone]

Only if someone else sells?

[clear glacier]

people sell other illuvials to try complete sets and sell excess ones. Cant say the same for holos (as much)

[cyan bronze]

Maybe but i wouldve think people wont sell T5 before and many did

We will see 🤷🏻‍♂️

[clear glacier]

true haha

[proper raft]

@long jackal I totally agree that the points need to be massively taken down, for both holos and dark holos! These holo/dark holo airdrop points I feel like has made the campaign entirely about luck… I have grinded so much, around 600k points so many hours.. now a single holo T5S3 give 100k and a dark holo T5S3 give 1 mill.. these points needs to be massively lowered! Can’t change an airdrop campaign so late so much..? Holos/Dark holos give by far too much points, some people grind hard and succeed racking up points.. a lot, so the team introduces an unbalanced amount of points for something to balance distribution so that more people get more and the ones that really did well we punish, make it less about skill and grind and more about luck. I believe the top players in the airdrop campaign up until now, are the true ones that love the game, proabably been in every PB and have spent a lot of time in the game, would agree on that one! On that note, I love the updates the team has done 🙂 the game feels a lot more vibrant and diverse now! Great job! But divide Holo points by 5 and Dark Holo points by at least 10. When you basically skip catching a T5S2 or above, in order to catch a T2 Holo lynx.. something is wrong. (I have been following this project for 3 years.. own land, staked, etc, I did not come here for the airdrop campaign along by any means.. i have reported probably 50+ bugs.. given a ton of feedback on the game etc.. and plan on staking the ILV i receieve from the airdrop)

[restive sequoia]

yea didnt expect people to sell T5 S3 but more listed now

[rapid dove]

Yea people need ETH to buy holos 😂

[long jackal]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z4G8BIRBAcOibUqmSKdV5RXQ9KCDnBErB7YBARvqcjg/edit?usp=sharing

I guess this should work?

[deep wraith]

The overarching point is about whether it is fair game to change key parameters in the middle of an incentivised campaign or not (I personally think it's not).
Interestingly, when it came to the change re master shards some ppl were totally happy with it on the basis that this is how testing works but the stance is now different for holos?
Am sure the majority of ppl here are genuinely concerned about fairness but we have to take a consistent approach: either we agree that things are subject to changes and live with it or establish that while the airdrop campaign is ongoing, no major changes should be introduced.
It's one or the other but let's just be consistent and not pick and chose

[long jackal]

If this CIIP works for most of you guys it would be nice if somebody could write a 2 or 3 sentences and push it to gov. ideas. I will have to go for now and will be back later tonight. If nobody did it until then I will do it. Also if you guys like to see some changes input is appreciated

[lean fable]

This many 5-3 illuvians are worth 90k points, but 1 dark holo 5-3 is 1 million. And those who get it with luck will earn the same point as I will earn in 1k+ hours with 1 illuvial. If you think this is fair, there is nothing to say. Thank you team for breaking my enthusiasm to play. @restive dust

[upbeat timber]

I share the same opinion.

If people go on grinding as before they should be able to keep their spot.

I can understand for everybody who just wanted to finalize the set and then stop playing it's tough.

Maybe a 25 % reduction could be discussed.

We should be aware that this system will go over when the game goes life. And that it will be beneficial to test this now as I understand the numbers are calculated on rarity so then it makes sense that they are that high.

I also think nobody will complain when the system goes life like this. It's more about the pressure to keep going hard to keep your spot as even more people now spend a lot of time as they like the new update.

[winged ginkgo]

Hopefully for the airdrop criteria/points system for the mainnet open beta is completely outlined prior to launch. Seems like the pushback has been alot on whats fair vs not as things are added midway through the drop, meaning players feel they may have played/used their time differently if they'd known this earlier.

Hoping they release an outline a week atleast from launch so there's enough time to get community feedback

[restive sequoia]

ive been pushing this before the P2A started.
i hope they do major changes and the beginning of a new season

[toxic drum]

As someone who has been playing nearly every day for 10+ hours since I got invited to the private beta part, I am pretty happy with the Holo point additions. Yes some may be a little too high like 1 mil points, but it was the best way for the devs to make things more fair for the majority of players. I care more about the long term success of the game rather than how much I earn from this airdrop, so I was glad they did this. Of course, I would have preferred no changes were made from the starting rulles/points, but that went out the window with changes made right when the open part started.

We were told all along since thae start of the closed part that we would only get a small amount of points for play time in the closed part since they wanted to keep things fair for open players. Then the first change to the rules came. People complained at the start of open and the devs gave in to let all illuvials from closed count. While this was great for 5% of people, it was bad for the majority of people. This made it harder for open players to catch up, and was unfair to the open players. Then the update a couple days ago where they nerfed master shards and cut catchable illuvials to 1-3 per encounter, made the gap even bigger for open players. While this was great for that 5%, it was really bad for the rest of the players.

Then with people finding ways to get thousands of SepETH, they were able to buy up most of the market and jack up the prices for the average person just trying to complete one T5 set. Things were starting to look really bad if you weren't in the 5%, taking away motivation for the majority of players to play. I know the 5% were fine with that though because they would get more ILV from the drop. With the holo update though, now the majority of players feel like they have a chance to compete and we will get more people playing the game.

Even with that, those 5% still have a head start over the majority even if they don't see it. It's more fair now though. I know it might feel bad that someone could earn points faster now, but even the 5% have that same chance too to earn points faster now. I do agree that some of the high end holos add a sort of lottery aspect which I wouldn't mind being taken down some, but the increased points in general is good to me.

[fossil cape]

from what I see every update has controversy

I have some suggestions
Eliminate all stages 2 and 3 of all tiers in the overworld

only stage 1 is in the overworld

If you want to get stages 2 and 3, you have to do it from fuse. increasing xp and grinding

if it's like this then it will be real play to airdrop

so we don't play in vain

I see updates are always chaotic, from trading to airdrops which can be abused

then now luck to airdrop, even from the beginning of the announcement until now I haven't stopped playing but only got 3 t4 s1 holo hahahah, my luck is very bad

[weak pawn]

Lol, you got this backwords. The reason we get the airdrop is to test the game, not the other way around. You can't break the game just because you think it would better suit the airdrop.

[fossil cape]

then why not try testing this? , the advice is not to stop, and in fact they have changed it several times😂 @weak pawn

[weak pawn]

because in the real game we will have all 3 stages, obviously. So there is no point to test something that will never happen.

[long jackal]

I am currently not at home and dont know why i can post the ICcp. If somebody wants to push this right now:

ICCP-XX Restructuring of holo-airdrop-points

Following my post in feedback ideas https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1250961154583302225 I propose to change the holo-airdrop to be more consistent with the previous point structure to value the time users already spent in our eco-system.
Full proposal below.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z4G8BIRBAcOibUqmSKdV5RXQ9KCDnBErB7YBARvqcjg/edit?usp=drivesdk

Otherwise I post this in two hours or so

[pure cedar]

[feral prism]

At least nerf the spawn rate of Holos per map, Just got 3 holos on 1 stage 3 run. I thought holos would be the equivalent to shiny pokemons

[restive sequoia]

i can post it for u in governance

and help with the proposal

[pure cedar]

Again upset about free money

Thank you for the constructive criticism though

All the things you mention in there and saying we didn’t look at the data is silly

That’s how we came up with it

[long jackal]

Upset about breaking trust. I dont care about the money at all. If you want you can ban me for the airdrop if that helps making my point

[pure cedar]

We knew there would be some sub set of unhappy ppl but we already had that with new people coming in.

[pure cedar]

Breaking trust by enabling more ppl to compete in a meaningful way?

[long jackal]

By >see proposal<

[pure cedar]

This is a dao. Things have changed over and over and over again.

[supple wharf]

Main thing I will agree with is that it is much more high variance

[restive sequoia]

sent fr

[supple wharf]

But the good thing about variance is that it decreases over time when looking at all samples taken

[static copper]

council members are gonna have to clutch up and keep things as they are

[pure cedar]

We will see

https://tenor.com/view/perfect-popcorn-michael-jackson-gif-26271837

[feral prism]

By doing that the team disregarded hundreds of hours spent by first comers and private testers prior to this change and that is a fact. Every single hour spent leveling and hunting for completion of new lines is essentialy muted and yes, that translates to a better position on the airdrop. This decision essentially reset the whole airdrop, which, by my understanding, was exactly the teams intention. Now you have players who spent hundred's of hours mad about it, I guess it should have been an expected reaction from the community

[restive sequoia]

[pure cedar]

Early people didn’t even have to level because they had master shards on tap

Didn’t even have to grind

Just go out capture T5s

The grind is now

A new comer will have to grind incredibly hard

To reach what you guys reached with how early you were

Even to get a T5S3 dark holo

Hold on I’m gonna get a number of avg Master shards used by players before the changes

See what’s really unfair

[feral prism]

you can really believe that. I have 220k points and from my T5 lines completed. From my 30 ST3T5 only 8 of them were captured Illuvials. So you saying that I didn't grinded my way to the top?

mastershards feedback were given way before OB released as well, it's the team that took way too long to make that change

[pure cedar]

I’m saying in relation to people joining now

That grind will be 10x harder

[feral prism]

Someone joining now can get lucky and make 50% of what I spent 287hours to achiev. Dosen't seem fair to me

[pure cedar]

Yo actually capture them all

How though?

They need a decent team?

They need master shards to guarantee that capture

Both those are way harder for them to achieve than it was for you guys

[mossy iron]

I think I'm going to stop playing the game. Definitely.

I've been playing for 5 hours and haven't found anything worthwhile. Pure RNG

[feral prism]

All of that is fairly easy to achiev, game is not that hard

[pure cedar]

So then you have the same chance to go get a dark holo

[feral prism]

Sure, that's how statistics works. I get it, the team wanted to reset the airdrop and they did but to say that it was easy to grind to the top before than it is now, just plain untrue

[pure cedar]

I’m saying relative to someone joining now. You are massively ahead and so are the top 500 based on hours played. If you continue to play those hours you have been you will easily find more holos etc than new comers as that grind to where you are now is much harder. If we were to actually reset the airdrop we would have to wipe everyone.

The simple fact alone master shards are going to become so rare quickly should help you understand how difficult this will be for new comers

How many master shards did you use capturing your current Illuvials?

More than 3?

More than 10?

[mossy iron]

This is no proof of what you are talking about.

We did not expect an increase in dust for the Master shard. I currently have 1 master shard.

I always had 2-3 and ran around for T5S3. This is no argument

[pure cedar]

Its beta testnet no one did

[feral prism]

Rich I get your point but I stand my ground. That said the teams effort to equalize the airdrop tokens to everyone involved wheter it's a new or old players will in the end backfire

[pure cedar]

I understand ser. Yes unfortunately we can’t please everyone but we are trying to.

In the end what’s important is the game not the airdrop

And more players means more refinement and better testing on the game

[proper raft]

hours played dont matter though.. 100 * 200 hours = 20k, i have over 600k points now.. hours matters like, 3% of my total points.

[feral prism]

My point is exactly that. The team shouldn't try to please everyone but reward those who grinded the harder and yes that means the ones who started way back when.

[pure cedar]

Based on your hours though there is a certain avg # of points

People with 100+ hours are avging x amount of points

[feral prism]

Unfortunetly on web3, this is reversed. I believe in this game and feel in love with Overworld but airdrop = tokens = money. That's what it is

[proper raft]

but will it, grind for couple of hours.. then you have like 2-3 mastershards, i do it like this.

[pure cedar]

Yeah but before you had 25

lol

Or something wild

[proper raft]

but you only need 1 mastershard to capture a T5S3,

[pure cedar]

People went into weekends with 150 master shards before

[pure cedar]

Yeah but would you use it on a T4S3 first

[lime inlet]

we had to use master shards for everything because capture rates were broken and failing almos every single time

[proper raft]

holo for 100k points I had to capture more than 100 T5s to get those points, with 100 mastershards, you tell me that its harder for them than it was for me? more grindier?

[static copper]

nope that's only part of the reason

[pure cedar]

It was 10x cheaper so yes I still think it will be

[proper raft]

ok so lets say 10x cheaper, but i still had to capture like 100x number of illuvial T5s, fuse them.. that was a grind to get even close to 100k. It would require 3 sets of full T5S3s. 3x39k points roughly equal to 100k.

[mossy iron]

The goal is that none of the players will receive $10,000 as a prize, but that the prize will be divided among 10 people with $1,000 each.

That's because of the opportunity. Just for example.

[proper raft]

i dont get why this was so dramatically changed..

[feral prism]

Exactly that's the teams vision for this airdrop

[mossy iron]

YES

You think Kerian or anyone on the team cares that basha played 500h and now some kid can beat him by x5 because he got lucky?

Don't be fooled. Here, everyone is looking at themselves.

[fossil cape]

@static copperbro after update untill now i only got three t4 s1 holo ,and i already fuse them with suck chance, i gamble, only have 1 t4 s 2 now 🤣 How many holos do you have, friend? I'm very tired of the chance when fuse, 1. my luck is bad when looking for holo and dark holo, 2. when fuse is full of casinos and need 3 to get 100%, even getting 1 is difficult hahahaha and that's all mostly t3 and t4

[static copper]

I just started playing the new patch

[proper raft]

the team should tone down these holo/dark holo points, make it more about skill, less about RNG, luck.

[fossil cape]

ahh yeah, good luck, iam verry tired now

[mossy iron]

Then throw in the ARENA sometime.

The first 10 on the server to get 50 million points each, why not. Let's look at skill and not just RNG

[long jackal]

well, tbh it kinda bugs me even more by now because the responses from officials lack empathy and understanding regarding this matter. How would you feel if your hours you worked until now are worth nothing anymore to attract new employees and I would tell you that you can grind your way up again since the field is now leveled again.
It makes it even worse for me that the team looked at the data and actively decided that this is a good way to mix things up. I could understand a sudden impulse with the right intentions more than this.
Either way it seems that there is a major disconnect on this. Either jag will post the proposal soon or I will in 3 hours (I blocked for the moment). I can just hope that the DAO will protect us from this arbitrariness otherwise I don't see enough trust to stay in this project. As I said this for me has extreme consequences regarding future problems, situations, drops, raffles, NFTs and so on.
For the record. This for me is not about my 100-200k airdrop points. Ban me from the airdrop if that helps bringing consistency back to this project. I even advocated for changes that would help new players keeping up before this madness happened.

[pure cedar]

I have empathy I’m sorry if it comes off that way

I’m glad you guys went about it the right way

Kudos for that

Took it to governance

Instead of just arguing in general

We’ve come a very long way

[mossy iron]

You said it well. I know a guy who was top3 before this update and he stopped playing immediately after the update.

I also think to stay there, if their interest is only to attract people without giving their accent to old members and real players, why should I waste my life on that.

After all, you said beautifully that everything that is yet to come is worrying. It's much worse than this, because we see how new decisions are just made in the middle of the game, there are no rules, they do as they want.

[pure cedar]

And I’m interested to see how this turns out through governance

[lime inlet]

i feel like these things are going to have a huge impact in next elections as well

[pure cedar]

Should be a good one

with a lot more players

[restive sequoia]

https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1251221577119432805

[weak pawn]

I did not see you complain when the team gave you points for all the tier 5s that you got when they had a bug and their spawn rate was double what should have been. Even though it was said from the beginning that there will be only flat points given for the private phase.

The only reason the "old grinders" could build up their point lead is because it was easier for them to catch tier 5s. Now that the playing field is leveled you complain...

[mortal hatch]

The lines are constantly changing. They can change the rules so that at the end of the game only they get

[long jackal]

it is not leveled. I would call it leveled if people from now on have similar chance regardless of their previous playtime BUT without deleting the previous hours people spent on this game.

Btw. everybody please vote.
#1251221577119432805 message

[mortal hatch]

I've been playing for over 200 hours and I've never caught a T5-S3. I've fused them all. Who told you it was easy?

[long jackal]

in that case vote for the ICCP
#1251221577119432805 message
After 25 votes we can get this to the next stage

[cosmic turtle]

Yeah I agree, I've got about 270 hours in and can't wait to go holo hunting. I know the last two days I haven't had much time, and thats sort of the point I think. If I stop playing, other people will catch up. Keep playing! In I go

[fossil cape]

hahahahahaha 😂

[proper raft]

I agree on the things we have discussed here.. but not on the proposition. Just keep it simple, just divide the points by for example 10 for dark holos and 5 for holos, to not have too much of a drastic change.

[long jackal]

well the proposition lets the "how" open to the team

[long jackal]

"Restructure the holo-airdrop points to be more aligned with the previous point system in regards of amount and variance."
" A rough internal estimation will be sufficient"
Also "should be aimed" gives room

[cosmic turtle]

Maybe its the 40 year old in me talking about I don't remember EA sports contacting me to say "hey thanks for playing our game, you enjoying the stake in our company we made available for you? Well in any case we need your wallet address so that we can put anything at all in it while we also make the game trash for you and constantly do not change anything according to what our fans want" I say leave it alone completely

[long jackal]

In the end the proposition is written in a way that they can dodge the examples given in it by a lot. I wanted to give them room to implement changes in these regards how they see fit. Phrases like "should be aimed to roughly be around" aren't binding

Also I talked about reducing the variance but didn't make a suggestion how to do that

In the end they could use your idea with that proposal as well. The further councils can comprise on other parts and so on...

[proper raft]

i get your point.. the main point is this: holo/dark holo points should be lowered to not distribute rewards from previous top lets say 500 players (that have optimized and grinded for weeks/months to reach that position based on what they thought was THE airdrop campaign) to the average player, which in one catch can overtake that position (with a pen strike with insane holo/dark holo point rewards), which is effectively what is happening now.

[cosmic turtle]

If I continue playing though I have the same random chance of that happening to add to my points. on top of the ability to play the levels that will be most likely to result in that happening more frequently, and with a stronger team

[proper raft]

you are forgetting this: 1 catch = months of playing. Meaning, the past has not been much value in, its all about going forward. That is the point.

[cosmic turtle]

No I'm not, that affects litearlly one person

[proper raft]

this also applies on averages, when points received are higher on average going forward (catching holos and dark holos) than in the past, the past wont matter at all (prior to the change)

[cosmic turtle]

If that happens enough to affect actual value in the airdrop, then the airdrop has made an adjustment for everybody

Addint one high point illuvial to one collection does not reflect on the entire previous month worth of everybody playing. WIll that affect the price of ILV too?

[fossil cape]

traading to airdrop , now luck to airdrop, next what again😂

[proper raft]

haha thats where you are wrong. 1 holo T5S3 (which can be fused), equals the value of 6 * 3 full sets of T5 illuvials

[cosmic turtle]

Alright, for one person who everyone acknowledges got really lucky

[proper raft]

haha, there are 330 T5 holo illuvials

[mossy iron]

Show me how you contributed to this ecosystem?! Do you think new players do this?

[cosmic turtle]

Compared to how many registered...

[proper raft]

in less than 1 day

[cosmic turtle]

No really, so there are 330 collection changing illuvials to collect, how many total registered players are there?

[proper raft]

i didnt get what you meant. I am talking about this: The previous top lets say 500, will be massively diluted, because luck lets everyone else get a ton of points, to a much larger extent from luck

[cosmic turtle]

Well you're saying these 330 illuvials will change value of the entire thing. SO I dont know, im curious how many registered players there are in the air drop

"Everyone else" meaning who? there are 330 you said, I have one that is 200 points, thats not changing value in any way

[radiant delta]

Need 25 thumbs up?

[cosmic turtle]

ok, so according to google there are about 1 million registered players

all of those people are alll going to just slide down a slope because of 330 illuvials?.

[long jackal]

I guess they mean the difference

[radiant delta]

Yea thumbs up mean upvotes