#Illuvial Training Gyms

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

mental moat
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I would like to expand the use of Zero land by intorducing the use of Illuvial gyms.

Open to discussion around being made available to all lands or just megacities.

The idea is to allow your unused Illuvials to train and grow exp passively. The speed of exp growth in the gym will be roughly 50% compared to overworld exp. Each stage of the building (stage 1-9) can train more illuvials and at higher speeds. Open to discuss the amount of illuvials at each stage, but it may start from 5-10 to 1000's at the highest stage.

We could also add an option to introduce "Hero" trainers at each gym that can provide extra skills or exp in certian areas to the illuvials. These trainers could be Hero drones, Hero badass Illuvials or maybe just Hero humans.

Open to discuss how much to charge in fuel for training of illuvials or that could be worked out with market forces.

So the point is to increase utility of Zero lands. Increasing connection between OW and Zero assests. Open to other suggestion to add in.

junior shard
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Oh wow, you going ham with the amount of possible illuvials 😄

mental moat
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Well my though was to hav OW players use your gym and pay in fuel. If we have a million players each player can have 100s if not 1000s of Illuvials. We gonna need to have them train somewhere passively.

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The question is how much per day/week or per level or 10s of levels.

unkempt lily
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Would you have elements to sink into this gym to keep it working?

junior shard
# mental moat Well my though was to hav OW players use your gym and pay in fuel. If we have a ...

Yes, thought the Same. The Limit is one of my core Problems i still have, thinking about to open it up in some Way for f2p to solve the Problem. Paid Land isn't scalable so its Hard to implement a solution which should scale 😅.
High amount of illuvials would also mean getting high amount of fuel out of that Building. Imagine the production numbers stay and you want 1 fuel per illuvial... That Building would yield you 1k fuel a Day. Thats Like a 35% increase in fuel production with a single building on a t4

unkempt lily
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I thought he meant like people pays in fuel. Not that the gym itself produces fuel.

mental moat
mental moat
mental moat
mental moat
mental moat
young musk
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I like it!

mental moat
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Okay so far pretty positive feedback. Now I should probably write an IIP for it. I know you have will have yours in the mix @junior shard but lets throw them out there and see which element of each sticks. @mellow meadow you seem to like math based on some of your vids. Want to lend a hand in working out the details to put in an IIP? I'm not great at math and no experience in writing IIP's.

mellow meadow
mellow meadow
# mental moat I would like to expand the use of Zero land by intorducing the use of Illuvial g...

Firstly, this is the sort of creative solutions I think are highly beneficial in both adding value to Illuvium Zero and Land without taking anything away elsewhere, these sorts of ideas would be excellent additions to the game and the direction I'd like to see Illuvium Zero evolve (rather than PvP aspects).

On the outset this seems almost too easy to add to Illuvium Zero, maybe @agile gyro can fill us in on its complexity. This is a typical blocker to whether or not something does well at the IMC level.

As for the maths side of things, I am not sure its relevant. Typically something like this would be calculated by Labs if the IIP passes. But if you want my personal opinion here is how I would structure it.

  1. The building behaves identically on every plot, Lvl 1 = 1 Illuvial, Lvl 2 = 2 Illuvials and so on.
  2. Activating the building costs elements for every use.
  3. Costs are difficult but I think market forces would be fine.
  4. The land tier impacts the efficiency and power, Eg a T4 Gym grants extra XP over a shorter duration, they will also likely be more expensive to commit to. This makes a gym on any plot an option for users, depending on their budget/illuvial.
  5. Would be cool to see the regions factor into most aspects of Illuvium Zero, maybe Rhamphy biodata increases the training effectiveness on gyms on Rhamphys. The more ways biodata is included, the better for the overall ecosystem.
  6. Hero trainers sounds cool, I don't have a big opinion on this tbh, but I'll say the more gachas the better, they make collecting games more fun to the typical audience of a game like this.
scarlet moth
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I love this idea. I would add a requirement that the illuvials must be fed with plants 🌱 and essences from the overworld.
Now that we won’t be crafting augments with the plants they need a place to be utilised.
This could introduce another Building to craft food in using plants.

agile gyro
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Definitely a cool idea which could start simple and then grow. For example f2p players could train their own illuvials up to some XP limit but land holders can rent out gym to many players as well train their own illuvials (with no XP cap).

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In its simplest form it doesn't feel too complex but I would note that there's still quite some effort between general idea to exact design, implementation, art, and so on.

mental moat
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Understood, thanks @mellow meadow and @agile gyro for the added info. I'm torn wether it should be an every land plot structure or only for megacities... I envision it to be the size of the current Market building, starting off as a signle level and growing taller with each upgrade. So that limits the space on single plots. Perhaps that then adds complexity of the game in decision making of the plot owner.

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It has me thinking about the neon sign on the face of the building now which grows as the building upgrades.. "Jimberino's Sweat Dungeon" or "O'Doyles Fight Club"... I may be getting ahead of myself...

mental moat
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@elder rose I want to write an this as an IIP. Is there somesort of template? And where do I submit it?

elder rose
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Any of the <@&1107754780744487002> can help with IIPs as well

mental moat
river depot
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Cool idea @mental moat. 👍

drowsy void
potent whale
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Now that's cool and a proper use case of cross games interoperability

mental moat
mental moat
pallid crescent
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Love the idea!
I would hesitate on mega city focus because there are so few of them compared to how many total plots there are. It would be a major design and dev implementation for only a handful of players. I'd focus on the whole of zero and give bonus based on tier 1-5... then added benefits for MC 2x2 and 3x3

magic bramble
# mental moat Perhaps that's where f2p player can come in. Feeding plants and the odd T0 Illuv...

I love your idea, but I would suggest not restricting it to mega cities, but instead opening it up to even more F2P players.

As Johnny pointed out - F2P players could get a gym spot from land holders e.g. in return for helping to level up some of the land holders Illuvials.

In that sense a land holder is a guild leader.

Let's make this a great social casual game that brings in many new players.

drowsy void
drowsy void
mint storm
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Big fan of this, and agree with the sentiment about not limiting it to mega cities.

abstract quarry
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Good idea. 👍

mellow meadow
drowsy void
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F2P lands could be limited to leveling up T0 illuvials.

I keep liking ideas that make use of possible guilds and offer f2p some sort of access to land owner utility thanks to the land owning guild members.

magic bramble
abstract quarry
magic bramble
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But it doesn't have to have the negativ side effects e.g. grinding from low income countries.

I know a lot of friends, who would LOVE to grow (and not earn) into Illuvial ownership, but don't want to spend in the beginning.

That is the beauty of a great IP and a great looking Zero (thanks @snow fox, @agile gyro , @heavy verge and the team). People will love to level up their Illuvials.

Especially when they can unlock new animations/behavior with certain levels, get a roll at gacha boxes with skins, emotes, Illuvitars and other game assets etc.

Add chat and emotes, a gift (fuel, Illuvials etc.) button, a leaderboard, a button to schedule arena tournaments, the gym building of course and allow me to look at my Illuvials and their progress and I am a happy camper on my land, while my team members go on OW hunts (on their Samsung TV 👊 ) and level up mine and their own Illuvials.

Look at what Yuga is building. There is some good information in these screenshots:

magic bramble
vague basin
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Important is that the experience growth rate is not too high so that OW runs are still interesting for leveling.

Special trainers could maybe be done in a second step to not use too many recources from Illuvium.

Use in-game resources like fuel to regulate training cost is a great idea. The idea from ape to make it more social is good but I would think this will be a lot of dev work and most people will want to train their Illuvials in their own free to play plot anyway and will also buy fuel for this.
@magic bramble what do you think?

It should not be restricted for only landholders or even megacities otherwise it's not worth the devs time.

This for sure would be something all of us playing OW and Arena would use and even spend some money on it for passiv exp.

Some poor Illuvials will maybe stay in the gym for their whole life 😄

Hope Jag can help prepare the IIP @hexed thicket

magic bramble
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As Johnny said, we are just throwing ideas around at the moment and greats mind have to morph this into a coherent game and economy design and a timeline.

But that being said, we are still looking for ways to introduce new players into our ecosystem besides airdrops. And at the moment, I can not think of anything better than a combination of Illuvials, land and a mobile casual game and some sort of guild.

So if we took the time during the airdrop to develop such a social game and it is ready when airdrops run out ...

mental moat
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I appreciate everyone that has provided feedback so far.

wet bridge
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Love the idea. My suggestion would be to make this available to all landplots including F2P and give a xp boost per landplot tier or gate the available illuvial tiers per landplot tier.

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For example:
F2P - 0% or only T0s
T1 - 20% or up to T1s
T2 - 40% or up to T2s
T3 - 60% or up to T3s
T4 - 80% or up to T4s
T5 - 100% or up to T5s

inland jasper
junior shard
hexed thicket
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it's a really cool idea.
ill say make it exclusive to P2E plots to increase its utility

wet bridge
hexed thicket
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if the training gym is exclusive to P2E IZ, it will drive up demand.
like johnny said maybe landowners can rent it out and earn fees

sharp magnet
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Fun idea, love the additional interoperability and utility for land. F2P needs some utility somewhere, couldn't this be it? Even just for T0 would be nice.

junior shard
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didn't finish my version of it, but since a lot of people show interest, i would like to share what i got so far.
maybe it offers some additional points of discussion.
I really like the approach of johnny for f2p plots and implemented it quickly. 🙂

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hexed thicket
warm apex
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We're actually looking at something like this in the Overworld.

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We're looking at Overworld for this experience, allowing us to have a tool for daily retention in the Overworld (where Zero is already stroing) and tying better into the progression systems within Overworld. (as well as tying into to some systems I cannot yet talk about publically!)

cunning solstice
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Love this idea, these games do feel really isolated outside of arena and we definitely need to up the interaction between players!!!

junior shard
wet bridge
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Oh boy here we go again. I guess degens will never understand what makes games great and only want their bags pumped. You'll get more revdis long term by making an economically sustainable and appealing game, instead of implementing cash-grab short sighted pay-for-convenience strategies. Josh's idea is great if it doesn't include illuvials, only mining and harvesting.

junior shard
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nono... stay topic please

mighty gale
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can you change the name from training gyms as the idea of a gym (which i would love that advantage that land owners are the challenge gyms) (imagine designing our own gyms with all the assets oh my mind goes). But if its where you passively leave an illuvial for leveling up. Then I would hope that it would have a debuff to the stats of that illuvial like rare candy.

if we are going to call it what your description is - its more like Bills house on route 25 or the bit where you sat the pokemon down in front of the tv? So not a gym at all

hexed thicket
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basically,
Pay to level up

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with many game launching this year, i wont have much time to grind. i like easier ways to

mighty gale
woven slate
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Fun idea, I like it. Gives land utility and a Illuvials get some use in zero.

woven slate
warm apex
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For zero - I'd prefer tying to more your own team of Illuvial identities.

Something more like you have a "stockpile" which you populate with Fuel. And then set a team of Illuvials to guard.

Players can then choose to "raid" by sending a team of Illuvials out with Fuel, at which point a random stockpile would be selected to attack. We could then simulate a battle and the winner would recieve Fuel. For the Attacker, a portion of the Stockpile that (dependant on how much Fuel you had risked on your raid) or for the Defender, the fuel that they attacked with.

This sort of opt in raiding that ties to the Illuvials and the autobattle would have significant benefits for the ecosystem. Without forcing players into raiding gameplay if they lacked interest.

vague basin
vague basin
mighty gale
warm apex
wet bridge
vague basin
mighty gale
warm apex
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Gyms with a ILV0 twist 🙂

mental moat
mighty gale
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What if the land tier capped the level of the staged illuvials?
T0 - T0 only
T1 - Illuvials max at T2
T2 - Max T3
T3 - T4
T4 - T5 Illuvials
T5 and megacities - have levels/floors/elevations

this way all levels of a players team may have a challenge and an end game concept?

junior shard
# warm apex For zero - I'd prefer tying to more your own team of Illuvial identities. Some...

why does it have to be an either or?
What you describe is a totally different possible feature of IZ
I smell some generall resistance to be able to gain exp for illuvials in IZ, reasons for that?

Training grounds as i would design it serves 4 main purposes.

  • Flexibility in layout building, being able to focus on fuel production, rather than have mixed plots (fuel+bp production) as i suppose it will be with beta changes
  • Connection to overworld with the usage of Illuvials
  • Giving the opportunity to spend fuel for a part of your leveling grind (positive for skin creators and arena players)
  • Element sink + fuel sink/yield

what you suggest is

  • Connection to OW with usage of illuvials
  • Implement pvp into zero
wet bridge
junior shard
wet bridge
junior shard
wet bridge
junior shard
mighty gale
mighty gale
# wet bridge what's the logic in that workflow 🤣

The logic is that full decentralised game development would be a shite show. the only way this succeeds is if there is a core centrality about it that every schmuck needs not to know or understand the every day facets of the business

wet bridge
junior shard
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off topic

mighty gale
vague basin
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But It's important to aknowlege that with in a very short time we have 50 thumps up and only 1 down.
This alone shows we need something like this!

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@heavy verge I think it would be great to also get your opinion as you have the overview about a lot in development

magic bramble
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It is kind of sad that they don't include us in the game design for Zero. Maybe we can change this. I can understand secrecy arund OW and the lore, but not with Zero.

junior shard
mental moat
wanton island
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Im just super super happy we have way more bigger brains than me making IZ even better

mental moat
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@hexed thicket can I PM you?

junior shard
hexed thicket
mental moat
hexed thicket
mental moat
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@hexed thicket done.

mental moat
calm wind
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What about having a structure for "jobs". You can submit jobs or accept them. You could lock up your illuvials and resources in a job for others to play with. You could pay X amount for someone to complete the job and you get the resources and experience that comes along with it.

IMG_9166.jpeg
wet bridge
magic bramble
# junior shard why does it have to be an either or? What you describe is a totally different po...

We really need to have a discussion around what Zero wants to become in the future.

A game for the 7.000+ land holders or an OW companion/full experience app for all kinds and numbers of players.

If the plan is a Zero just for the few land holders then the future is bleak. Why would the DAO continue to invest in it?

For example, would the fuel raid game play work for F2P players? If not and it is just for land holders,,why would we do it?

wet bridge
junior shard
# magic bramble We really need to have a discussion around what Zero wants to become in the futu...

feel invited to open a thread for that 🙂
In my opinion tho, IZ should be a full experience including f2p for all kinds and number of players

Not sure a fuel raid game would work or not.
Many questions opens up about that topic like for example can f2p attack paid land, if so what incentivices paid land to participate or does fuel of f2p convert to erc-20 token if paid land wins?

But this whole discussion imo has to take place in seperate Threads.
I already forsee a big chaos happening when masses join the server and everybody is talking in every thread about everything.
#1020759212172775464 should be way more observed by mods, otherwhise it gets super hard to brainstorm for specific ideas.
This is not specifically targeted at you, but in like the last 20 posts there where unnecessary links to other threads, game ideas thrown in which had nothing to do with the subject of OP etc.
You can see this getting out of hands in the latest threads about zero and Community-council member stating it is too much to read.
Maybe slowmode has to increase drastically or the medium has to change for #1020759212172775464

magic bramble
wet bridge
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Instead of the team finding ways to increase the value proposition of IZ, F2P plots included, seems like they just went and copy what mavia did... This training grounds idea is a great example how to increase value and give meaning to IZ in an IBG ecosystem.

wet bridge
unkempt lily
junior shard
unkempt lily
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would people decide to use gyms. because leveling up illuvials in OW is limited to the team you carry?

junior shard
# unkempt lily would people decide to use gyms. because leveling up illuvials in OW is limited ...

lvling up Illuvials is especially strongly linked to time being spent actively at your device.
It was stated from various team members that lvling up Illuvials is a long grind and you basically can't even reach lvl cap.

So i guess passive features where one can gain exp for his illuvials will be greatly appreciated and used for various reasons like pushing your top illuvials, get illuvials to fusion stage for either collection reasons, skin craft reasons, or high lvl pvp reasons

tranquil bluff
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I LOVE this. I would love to have a gym on my land and work with people training their Illuvails. I find this more interesting than PVP land raids. I think we have 3 different games in our world right now and they should all attract different people. Arena is for PVP. OW is for those who like to play alone and explore. Zero could be more of a co-operative game, this is the sort of thing that would help it reach that.

magic bramble
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PVP land raids will be dead after a few days or months. The land holders, who loose more than they win, will just stop to play.

unkempt lily
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i know its off topic but i jsut wanted to say regarding to raids. its not the fact that im able to raid. but more like i want there to be strategy and skill involved. i dont feel a click and raid would be fun for anyone.

wet bridge
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Someone should really start an idea thread to gauge community sentiment about land PVP "raiding", let's not drag that conversation here.

tranquil bluff
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Sorry for bringing it up.😬

pallid crescent
wet bridge
mental moat
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So I've collated some of the ideas that we have come up with so far. I still need help with turning it into an IIP. I have used some of the info @junior shard put in his previous post. I believe that there is something in it for all players. Happy to amend if there is enough support for those ideas. Please read below.

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Proposal for Illuvial training gyms in ILZ "O'Doyle's Fight Club"

Structure Plot: Size 4x4 with levels 1-9
Max efficiency: 150%
Upgrade lvl: 2-9
Required structures: Nexus, Quantum Fabricant
Possible additional structures (TBD): Feed lot, +++
Possible additional resources: Hero Trainers (Badass Illuvials, Drones, Humans), +++
Land Tier production boost: Additional XP gain + ressource cost (yield) according to production boost

Outline

  • The idea is to allow the plot/gym owner to train their unequiped Illuvials and grow XP passively without an XP cap.
  • The speed of XP growth and leveling in the gym would be slower than if the Illuvials were used to battle in OW or Arena.
  • Each upgrade stage of the gym (stage 1-9) can train more Illuvials and at higher speeds.
  • XP gained increases with every stage upgrade of the gym.
  • The number of spots available in the gym for F2P and P2E is equal at each upgrage stage. Example Gym lvl 3, 30 spots each.
  • The gym uses Elements (carbon, silicon, hydrogen) in equal ammounts to run the site similar to extractors.
  • Running cost increases proportionately with each upgrade level of the gym(element sink).
  • Gym needs to be constantly active (daily or weekly activity clicking) for the Illuvials to gain passive XP.
  • F2P players can train their T0 Illuvials in P2E gyms to an XP cap. Example - upto 25% required XP for fusion.
  • F2P players can provide sustenance(TO plants, an maybe Illuvials from OW) to the higher tier Illuvials of gym owner for an additional 25% XP.
  • OW players can use gyms for their Illuvials at a fuel cost, example 1 fuel per Illuvial per 10 levels or per week (TBD by labs). Passive XP growth has no cap.
  • Regions boost illuvial traits in proportion (TBD by labs). Example Shardbluff boosts earth and fire, Halcyon boosts nature and water etc.
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Megacity boosts

  • Gym owners on Megas are have 50% more spots available compared to single plots.
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Optional ideas for interoperability/cross promotion

  • F2P players may get an aditional reward with a gift or lend of Illuvials from gym owners for OW, Arena or future games for loyalty.

To be determined (TBD) by Labs

magic bramble
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Thanks for writing this up !

Maybe we can require that the corresponding Biodata has been found, before being able to level up that Illuvial ?

Then we have a research (for blueprints) and a training (or gym) building.

magic bramble
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Since @warm apex mentioned that they are working on a Illuvial level up feature in the OW, I have been thinking how Zero could do the same, but stay within the industrial complex lore.

So, what if we didn't actually level up the Illuvials themselves, but produced booster (infusion?) packs, that can be sold and used in the OW?

The booster packs could be made for specific Illuvials and would have different levels and of course different prices on the market.

We could also produce other boosters e.g. for speed ups for runs in the OW etc. Whenever a game introduces a new kind of booster we can easily argue that land owners should produce them and they should not come out of thin air and sold by the DAO. The DAO would still make money from royalties.

This also means land holders (or F2P players who help) don't even need to own the Illuvials, the Biodata is enough to produce in our labs and factories and OW is still our main game and Zero the companion game. This should make implementation much easier.

BA3B2D73-A591-4410-927B-64DBAB6A4654_4_5005_c.jpeg
junior shard
junior shard
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But i actually feel they wana replace the augement crafting into something Like you mentioned in the overworld

mental moat
junior shard
mental moat
mighty gale
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can I clarify. your proposal is strictly passive? no arena integration or a gym really at all but the same idea of Bills house in pokemon red/blue/yellow where you leave them and return later to collect - pay your services fee and leave with a more beefy illuvial?

Bens suggestion was more in line with the direction they considered as a more passive/active role where the land owner leaves a "challenge" like pokemon go, of illuvials configured on an arena board and OW players train at the gym. Semi Passive for land owner but active for the OW participants?

mental moat
mighty gale
# mental moat My idea is completely passive. I'm not against the option to leave and have som...

oh i think there is a small miss-step in coms here. If its completely passive as you suggest, sure a nominal fee for parking them there makes sense becasue that all the vison of this idea allows. the idea more inline with Bens suggested path being the pokemon go one is where the land owners stationed/staged gym illuvials are in more battles consistently and level faster, noone even needs to pay anythin the bonus comes from the illuvials stationed by the landowner leveling much faster.

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But even that vision is thinking small IMO. I shared my interpretation of a modified version in Dr Spoons post "training grounds). I feel that your idea can be a far bigger opportunity than your initial concept. and it can include yours and Bens lines of thinking

magic bramble
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Let me think just from a land holders perspective:

The biggest threat to land (and Zero) comes from the DAO developing another mobile game e.g. a companion app for OW.

Zero would become a stale game for land holders only and all new income sources and features (perks outside IZ, social features, Illuvial leveling etc.) would go to the new mobile game.

We saw this with Beyond getting skin rewards and now potentially OW getting passive leveling of Illuvials (which might be the right thing to do from a DAO perspective).

Zero is only important to the DAO, because it is the only mobile game we have for the airdrop right now. But this advantage won't last.

If we don't get the role of land in the Illuvium economy written down in a durable IIP #1226308551438372904 message we will face an uncertain future for Zero and land in general. We either make land play a central role even for F2P land and increase the land holder size drastically or stick with 7.000+ players and fade into oblivion as the other games gain players.

As Johnny said:

Personally I'd feel a lot better if things like the 5% share of in-game revenue for land holders was something that was more protected than it is. Theoretically it could be cut on a whim.

Sure that probably won't happen, but who knows when a hostile council or a convincing argument might arise.

Once we have this clarified, it will also help us develop new features and revenue sources without stepping on other games turf or them "raiding" our revenue.

For example: Land could own the ability to produce booster/infusion NFT packs for all other games. This would decouple us from the specifics of how they work in the other games and create additional economic activity, which is really at the core of land anyway.

mental moat
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We dropped the ball from the begining with Zero, and we could have had an impact on Beyond and tied Zero to it somehow. As soon as a new game idea comes up we should immediately figure out a way to link Zero to it.

junior shard
hexed thicket
wet bridge
# hexed thicket yes i had an idea to give land this utility. Example, owning a plot in crimson w...

The idea has some merit, but I would go a bit further than simply owning a landplot and get perks. And I don't think EVERY game needs to be tied to IZ, just what actually makes sense.

For example, it doesn't make sense to me to give an affinity bonus for the arena just by owning land, but I think there could be a building in IZ that gives a slight boost to the OW runs of the corresponding region like you were saying. Increased accuracy on the heatmap or slight increased % in finding higher tier illuvials in that area.

This building could be something like an observatory for example and would add one more layer of utility to land and could even be used by the F2P landplots, with a reduced bonus %.

mental moat
wet bridge
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for example, if we would introduce the repair feature. Repairing normally on the sanctum mesa shop would cost you 10 solon. But if you have a repair shop set in your landplot it would only cost 7 solon.

hexed thicket
wet bridge
hexed thicket
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yes, personally i would only give the gym and future perks to IZ P2E

wet bridge
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you are aware IZ is a PVE city-builder game centered around optimizing your landplot for economic resource extraction right?

hexed thicket
wet bridge
hexed thicket
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so giving more perks to IZ F2P is not?

wet bridge
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nop

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if you can't figure that shit out, than it's the reason why you should stick with the tokenomics

hexed thicket
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and u to jpegs

wet bridge
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yes I got my T4 jpeg contrary to u

hexed thicket
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i can see why ur angry then

wet bridge
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I'm not xD
You're just short sighted.

hexed thicket
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anyway, johnny was discussing to give a low earning to IZ F2P
because otherwise why would people be playing. so u pron want to take that to johnny

wet bridge
hexed thicket
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as for the perks, why would we give bonus to free assets?

wet bridge
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to give a reason to play IZ with no direct economic benefit

hexed thicket
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the point of the perks im suggesting is to give economic benefit, just like this thread

wet bridge
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you earn the perks by playing.

hexed thicket
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people can earn from T0 OW by leveling up, and sell it
but T0 Gym allows them to level up the illuvials, by 50% if i remember correctly, thats half of the job

wet bridge
junior shard
mental moat
vague basin
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@golden wadi Are you back from holiday would be great to get your inputs Atlas_Love
Especially that with 64 upvotes and no single downvote it seems the community wants this to happen badly.

wet bridge
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This training gyms idea and the OW auto-runs go hand in hand to show how the current community really wants pay-for-convenience features. Just don't forget guys, the ones who are going to actually play the game are not the investors but the gamers. These systems can be a gr8 addition to the game loop but we should be very careful on how we implement them.

magic bramble
# wet bridge This training gyms idea and the OW auto-runs go hand in hand to show how the cur...

I agree, but when you say gamers, we should also be clear that they are actually collectors AND arcade style gamers at the same time.

It is interesting that gamers were used to pay for their gaming time back in the old days. Putting a coin into a machine is not much different than buying fuel in Illuvium.

We are about to add collecting valuable NFT assets to a pay-for-game-time model.

I would argue, when you have someone already paying for game-time, then they should be friendly to pay-for-booster models.

wet bridge
# magic bramble I agree, but when you say gamers, we should also be clear that they are actually...

You can call them collectors, if they play the game they're gamers. If they simply put money in to collect stuff they aren't gamers.

And yes I agree that gamers by now are more than used to P2W mechanics. BUT there's a big difference in web3 I don't think many realize this.

It's a very different mindset when you spend money in web2 and expect nothing in return, you just know that's the price for your entertainment, compared to knowing that what you bought holds value in web3. I can assure you, this simple difference in mentality makes a world of difference. Because when you have expectations for something to have value, and that value starts going down then it brings forth negative feelings. Feelings of loss are one of the worst sensations to have.

We should really take lessons from what destroyed other web3 games. And sure none were as appealing and with the quality of Illuvium but they all died due to bad economic models.

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Having said that, I'm totally on board with this system. I believe this idea has gr8 potential, especially if the training gyms can be 'rented' like Spoon's training grounds idea. This could even generate some fuel for the F2P plots, and at the same time increase the DAO's earnings.

magic bramble
# wet bridge You can call them collectors, if they play the game they're gamers. If they simp...

The only gamers in the strict sense are F2P OW gamers, whenever you want to catch something of value you need to pay-for-game-time and then you are a "collector-gamer" with a gamified gacha box experience. Not that this is bad, but it is reality that we need to attract financially motivated gamers.

And I agree with you, special consideration needs to go into making sure asset prices don't start to fall. A slow but steady ramp up would be preferred.

bleak heart
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This is one of those ideas that just seems to fit. Like it was meant to be implemented from the get go. Giving land owners a third path of earning, after skins and fuel. Training illuvials and reselling them. Great!

magic bramble
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Yes, but Aaron/Ben think it is better suited for the OW to encourage players to open OW on a regular basis and maybe go on additional paid runs while they have OW open.

And this might be more important from a DAO perspective than additional revenue for land owners or could also mean additional revenue through fuel sale.

wet bridge
bleak heart
wet bridge
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I'm going to make a separate idea thread based on this and Spoon's idea for you guys to see what I have in mind.

bleak heart
wet bridge
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well, my idea is that this has the potential to be included in F2P landplots so...

bleak heart
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Sure if it can train T0s. Why not. Those can be leveled up without fuel anyway.

wet bridge
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you'll get what I mean when I post my idea

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and I see np of lvling up your own illuvials without fuel, it's something to be discussed. Just not for other players.

junior shard
bleak heart
mental moat
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For anyone still interested here is where I'm at with my proposal. Just waiting on further feedback to get it done.

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The cost values still need to be worked out but my little brain is struggling to compute what would work best.

mental moat
unkempt lily
# bleak heart The specifics can be ironed out. The whole premise of gyms is what is good and w...

yes, but i think what @junior shard says changes the whole dynamic on gyms and the land itself so a careful look at it is required. one big building is like adding revenue for lands most likely, while the way spoon says there is an inevitable opportunity cost. also not paying in fuel for training illuvial i think its bad since we lose revenue for the whole DAO. the idea always has been people running OW as many times as they can, and if they still want to save some time pay in fuel to train secondary team of illuvials of whatever.

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i love the gym idea but i still not sure on the one big gym vs several smaller gyms

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i feel like if you put on big gym i definitly will build it, like no brainer, but if i have to build several ones occupying space for converters i might think about it twice. not saying one is better than the other. but if people just like the overall concept maybe we just crunch some economics and try to decide what is best for the whole game economy, which i think is people paying more overall while we provide a "needed" service

mental moat
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Please give an upvote to help get it to the next stage.

mental moat
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Upvotes need to be given in the Governance Ideas tab. Please use the one I posted above.

mental moat
chrome cairn
rocky pollen
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73 Vs 1 we HAVE to do this

mental moat
golden wadi
mental moat
snow badge
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Hi @mental moat Sorry for the delay. I was too busy in the last weeks. Here is my anwser for this post #🎮〕illuvium-zero message

The improvements I was talking about related to the Training Gyms are:

  1. make sure Gyms are limited, so there will be a competition between OW players for the Gyms.
  2. Allow land owners to freely set how much fuel then can charge for their gym.

In my understanding, based on your proposal (section Gym Fees), you decided to further discuss with the ILV Labs how much fuel will be required to use a Gym.

My suggestion here is to find a way that the land owners has full control of it. Imagine a situation where OW players are training for an upcoming tournament, and Gyms demands increase because of it. Let's say all Gyms became busy, and I have a land with some free Gyms. It's fair I can increase the price of my Gym (by increasing the amount of fuel required to use them), since I have a scarce resource. This can move lands demand to another level.

The inability for land owners to fully control the fuel price in the market (and I understand the reasons for this decision), may limit the potential and demand for the lands, specially for lower tiers. Given the full power for landers to set the amount of revenue they can get from land Gyms can change that game.

mental moat