Illuvium Beyond individual Stretch Goals

[spark sand]

Simple Summary:
Change the individual stretch goals rewards from ‘number of D1sks bought’ to ‘points earned per D1sk bought’ where Mega D1sks give five times more points than the Standard D1sks. Alternate the cumulative rewards between Mega D1sks and Standard D1sks and re-introduce rewards for the 5,000 and 10,000 points threshold.

Full Proposal:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTv9Vg4bBxg0dkycP9Gf3U_1MpUXu0-32VjjzyZeaz-2foYlol7yG6TmrlcF4LpdKAl2WeeVRhQ5TDf/pub

Key Contributors: @pulsar shale, @jade bone, @dusty saffron, @inner jewel, @dry cedar, @bleak fractal, @iron furnace, @mossy stream

[bleak fractal]

is there a reason for 5x points if the price is 6x?

[spark sand]

yes, I described it in there. It's so we maintain consistency with wave 2 and for simplicity sake so we retain the system of buying 25 get 1 free. And now buy 5 get 1 free.

[spark sand]

#1197418202196619344 message

[plucky prairie]

<@&814435151307866142>
IIP-48 was voted for revision.
id like to open up the discussion for the revision

from me:

1. 5x points from Mega D1sk.
   Agreed.

2. Alternate the cumulative rewards between Mega D1sk and Standard D1sk.
   i prefer the rewards to be simpler of just one type of D1sk.

3. Higher points thresholds.
   I agree. But the proposal need make it clearer that the higher threshold and rewards are for the team to calculate and decide.

[spark sand]

2. We shouldn't dillute only 1 type of d1sk. And it's too much being rewarded with just mega d1sks.

[spark sand]

3. it does say on the overview "It is up to the team to decide on the rewards given."

[plucky prairie]

and also the thresholds?

[spark sand]

the thresholds as well. I just copied the thresholds from wave 1.

[mental oxide]

Posting here again what my revisions would be if accepted

[spark sand]

@halcyon shuttle do we need this IIP?

[halcyon shuttle]

I dont think so, especially the last part is shoehorning design

[spark sand]

here's the revised version:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTv9Vg4bBxg0dkycP9Gf3U_1MpUXu0-32VjjzyZeaz-2foYlol7yG6TmrlcF4LpdKAl2WeeVRhQ5TDf/pub

[plucky prairie]

Thats fast, ur a machine

<@&814435151307866142> <@&1107754780744487002> @rose arrow

IIP-48-R

[iron furnace]

@spark sand are you open to making some additional changes? Or is this final?

[spark sand]

ofc I'm open. Just shoot.

[iron furnace]

I am traveling so everything on mobile is a pain (TBH)

I believe it would be wise in future-proofing this IIP for any cases that could come up

As it does not address:
"Alpha D1sks" or "promotional d1sks"

I know when this was originally written, it stemmed around strictly Standard & Mega because at the time, this was the problem

[plucky prairie]

afaik alpha dnt give additional points?

so it should follow the standard:mega ratio?

[spark sand]

it actually does now. So Ricky has a point.

and worse part is that it's not proportional to their costs

we need @halcyon shuttle to chime in here.

[plucky prairie]

Ahh ur right IIP-69 says so too

[iron furnace]

If a promotional disk comes out at 60$ for instance because it has CRAZY pulls - proportionally it is 10x more than standard d1sks so the points should be 10x more (logically?)

Future proof:

Points are proportional to $$ spent

BUT then this ties our hands a bit because then you would need "bonus points" or sum for promotions or Alpha

[plucky prairie]

can just change "mega" to "any"?

[halcyon shuttle]

What needs my chiming?

We are overincentivizing Alpha's yes (with points alone), we want them to run out asap so non-Alpha players can join in on the fun at start

[iron furnace]

This makes sense and ties into = incentivising either the "bonus" points being awarded for purchases

[spark sand]

yes that's not the issue, the only problem is the ratio is not the same nor is it proportional to the cost.

[plucky prairie]

whats the current ratio for stretch goals points

is the ratio the same as the price difference?

we are T-3 days to the sale, assuming rich can upload this on monday

[iron furnace]

If not = point adjustment after the fact is always possible ... less than ideal but should be possible since it's based on loading d1sks (every d1sk burnt is on chain)

[iron furnace]

Sorry again for any typos, on vacation so limited to access on my phone and my fat fingers decide what kwy they want to Hit lol

__Suggestion: __

Wave 3 Standard = 6$
1 point = 1 point / 6$

Wave 3 Mega = 36$
6 points = 1 point / 6$

Wave 3 Alpha Standard = 12$
** 2 points = 1 point / 6$ **

• x1.5 Alpha multiplier = 3 points

Wave 3 Alpha Mega = 108$
** 18 points = 1 point / 6$**

• x1.5 Alpha multiplier = 27 points

[spark sand]

Alpha Mega d1sks at 108$ and we expect to sell out 🤣

[iron furnace]

The proposal could mention the "Standard d1sk" as the BASE POINTS and all other d1sks are proportional based on $$$ spent. This way it future proofs the point system in relation to changing prices if the d1sk prices update

Also the **"Alpha Multiplier"**is in proportion with @halcyon shuttle and the Team wanting to incentivise selling out Alpha D1sks quicker

Then we can add a blurb that "Promo Multiplier" is as the discretion of Labs to determine around the Promo D1sk terms & sales price. Base points will tie into standard d1sks and then the "promotional multiplier" can be at their discretion

[iron furnace]

Not the discussion for this topic = we stay on track 😉 (thus the blurb about "if d1sk prices update)

[spark sand]

you're doing suggestions on the current prices / multiplier, what if it changes? We still haven't seen what Rich's revised proposal looks like.

[iron furnace]

If prices change and say Megas are 5x price

The points could be:

STANDARD D1SK = 1 POINT

MEGA D1SK PRICE / STANDARD D1SK PRICE × 1 POINT = "X" POINTS

Future proof no matter what the price of d1sks become 😉 so even if standard d1sks increase to 2 points, the equation updates proportionally

[spark sand]

this is a good suggestion, having 1.5x multiplier for alphas would make the numbers pretty similar to the ones we currently have and this can be standardized. What do you think @halcyon shuttle?
And should promo d1sks also have this multiplier @devout cliff?

[devout cliff]

I’m sorry, its been a busy Sunday and I haven’t read all of the thread here.

Reasoning for having alpha’s give more points was threefold. (if i recall correctly..)
1 – (gamer perspective) value proposition goes up slightly for those that buy it as the buyer has the advantage of owning an alpha & ringing up your point count quicker. (Do know again, point count goes up by opening.)
2 – (loyalty perspective) A way of rewarding the people that came first and bought.
3 – (marketing reason) Make Alpha’s as appealing as possible as we want to burn through them quickly. Because if we do it would be a good marketing win too.

Now pricing wise, I’m not up to speed as to what is the actual latest that is suggested.(and how it is/was, depending if we change anything.)
But I’m not the best to put any data behind it or anything, I come from a look & feel perspective..

So I’ll share my ideal with you – BUT know, that its not me who makes these decisions and it could very well be that you are against it or for it..
I’m just sharing an opinion, not a goal for me. If we end up going there – great. If not.. I would expect there be good reasoning for!

My ideal would be to peg it to USD and be like:
non-alpha 5,99** /** 29,99 points 1 / 5
**alpha ** 11,99 / 69,99 points 3 (or 5) **/ **25

Aim should be to sell out as quick as possible for alpha’s. It can be seen as a very limited ‘bonus’ moment to your point count.
Should be up to the people who want to go for stretch goals to make that choice. After it – its 1 to 5 and is in line with the pricing.

[spark sand]

All good Rogier you nailed it. And I like that pricing. It would be much more appealing for the alpha sale selling out narrative than having alpha mega d1sks at $100+... Although that pricing would mean that alpha standards are 2x the normal price and alpha megas are 2.33x. Not really a problem IMO (I rather that ratio than the current 3x).

Maybe both alpha d1sks could give 5x their corresponding number of points and not be directly tied to their pricing.
I just need to know what you guys want me to write on the revised IIP.

[devout cliff]

i would really like to get people from the team like @glacial hatch @rose arrow @halcyon shuttle on my side 😂 as they would ultimately make sure its calculated, implemented and communicated 🙂
And then its equally important to get all of the people who have a stake and play it onboard. 🙂 I guess i have atleast 1 in you 😂

[spark sand]

In case you're not aware the ask for revisions to this came from this post: https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1307517862323163217

[bleak fractal]

Are we making Alphas useless?

What was the point of Alphas?
Illuvitars that are more rare.

If we reward extra points for Alphas everybody who is competing for stretch goals will just finish them that way and not buy and normal D1SKs. So Alphas won't be rare as they should be? (Maybe @dry cedar can chimp in here)

We should stop thinking about points for stretch goals as a tool for what we want people to buy. Just make points fair and let people decide what they want to buy.

[spark sand]

they'll be rare cause this wave they'll be finite. 🙂

[bleak fractal]

At what number?

[spark sand]

5000 Alpha Standard D1sks and 1500 Alpha Mega D1sks.

[devout cliff]

from the snapshot: There will be a limited release of 2500 Alpha Standard D1sks and 1000 Alpha Mega D1sks, both launching at the start of the Wave 3 sale.

[spark sand]

the original doc has this. My bad didn't notice it was different on your revised one.

[devout cliff]

https://snapshot.org/#/ilv-gov.eth/proposal/0x2e04a69aefa27813381bbe87d9798c35d6802d9258c6610fd7fc39738105d123

[dry cedar]

2 now

[devout cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/borat-borat-very-nice-verynice-thumbs-up-gif-25080066

[halcyon shuttle]

Finish? There are a very limited amount of Alpha D1SKs to go around and the stretch goals are very very juicy this Wave. Furthermore, we are just slightly overincentivizing above price to point parity to make sure they are sold out quick

[jade bone]

Given previous waves, yes, but I see the concern, i still dont know why alpha megas are 3x, I guess they have some serious rarity compared to prev waves now

[jade bone]

Yeah this pricing works for me, as long as mega rarity threshold doesn't have to move, which is my only concern with bringing megas to 1:5

[devout cliff]

with the insane low amount of d1sks even available we are at sever risk of turning this musquito into an elephant 🙂

[halcyon shuttle]

Exactly this, changing price or point config is a lot easier than rebalancing a probability model

But even then, I fully agree with Rogier more regarding elephants and mosquitoes. We went from 500% increased point advantage (elephant) to 20% (mosquito).
Don't get me wrong, my eyes turn red when I hear a mosquito buzzing in my bedroom

Imo:

4.99 - 1 points
29.99 - 6 points
9.99 - 3 points
89.99 - 25 points

Rogier makes a good point, when I peer into my data crystal ball, there does appear to be a unexplainable demand peak around 69.99, weird

[jade bone]

I also see this demand peak, tis large 😛 But yeah I am down for this pricing structure

[halcyon shuttle]

And wrt using data to set pricing, I'm probably a boring Head of Data or I spent too much time in Bayesian statistics, but my answer tends to in the lines of "no clue, data points 5% in that direction but other factors dominate by about 100%", I should learn to sell myself better

As blickter mentioned in other threads, we have little pricing data points and a lot of variables were very different in previous waves

[jade bone]

U said demand peak at 69.99 but put it at 89.99, thats intended yes?

[jade bone]

The worst part is market conditions have been completely different in every wave too

[devout cliff]

its for the memes sir.

[halcyon shuttle]

So rather than discussing mosquitoes why dont we discuss elephants such as how we can make the product appeal to 50% more customers and what it would take to have your friends buy a Standard D1SK

[full elk]

Would peak more if it was priced $69.69

[jade bone]

What would keep me personally buying for the duration of the wave, is the ability to obtain cool cosmetics for Arena through the stretch goals. Especially as tournaments etc are running during the wave

[spark sand]

if the alpha sale sells out then $89.99 will be the best price, but if it doesn't maybe we need to lower it to $69.99 for the next wave. I'm hoping it sells out. 🤞

my question still remains will the promo d1sks also give extra points? Or we still don't know and it's better to leave it out of the IIP?

[iron furnace]

Stardard d1sk = 4.99
1 point = 1 point / 4.99$
Mega d1sk = 29.99
6 points = 1 point / 4.99$

Alpha Standard = 9.99
3 points = 1 point / 3.33$
Alpha Mega = 89.99
25 points = 1 point / 3.59$

Would it not be better to offer 1.5x multiplier for Alpha d1sks?

Alpha Standard = 9.99
2 points = 1 point / 4.99$
2 points * 1.5 = 3 points
(3 points / 3.33$)

Alpha Mega = 89.99
18 points = 1 point / 4.99$
18 points * 1.5 = 27 points
(1 point / 3.33$)

The 25 points for Alpha Mega = less points per $ spend

[iron furnace]

Based off this suggestion

It also allows Illuvium Labs to do "promotion multipliers" with the promo partners as well 😀

[spark sand]

I honestly like a 1.5x multiplier. Pretty straightforward!

[jade bone]

Hmmmm, I say leave it out of the IIP tbh, I don't know the pricing for it

[jade bone]

agreed I quite like it

[iron furnace]

Simplified and future proof = best way to proceed ✅️

[bleak fractal]

I don't have any friend who would buy D1SKs but my feedback would be:

• I would buy more D1SKs if I was able to complete the collection and collect all of them.
• I would buy more D1SKs if I was able to complete part of collections.
• If I had more money and could compete for leaderboard I would be buying more D1SKs for that.
• My brother would maybe buy D1SKs if there were rewards for collecting that get you something in Zero, preferable boost on something or like easier way to find biodata if you have that collection full or something like that.

Price point of like $2-3 would make more people want to chim in and get the D1SK just to try and get something rare. But I don't think we want that and that might be pricing it too low. Especially now after 2 waves.

[spark sand]

I'll do the revisions to the doc tomorrow morning.