#Create two separate leaderboards for Illuvium Beyond

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tardy nova
#

TLDR - Create separate leaderboards for the set and the current active wave once a wave releases. This would mean we continue giving 100 ILV to the main leaderboard, but we would also be giving 50 ILV to the current active wave leaderboard.

In order to engage excitement with the Beyond ecosystem I suggest we create a separate leaderboard for each wave as soon as possible.

The idea of having separate leaderboards is a must have in these types of systems in order to incentivize new players to participate in the Beyond game by bonding their illuvitars and trying to climb up the ladder for better rewards and not feeling daunted by all the previous waves.

If we don't create a new leaderboard by wave 3 only the top 100ish players will be incentivized once again to bond and the barrier for new players to achieve a leaderboard spot will just keep getting bigger and bigger as waves pile in.

The current active wave leaderboard would be for the best 100 collections of that wave and would pay 50 ILV, half of the all-time leaderboard.

The current active wave leaderboard would stop rewarding once the corresponding wave ends.

@fair spruce already presented a proposal for this, go check it out and give your thumbs up:

#1196987941717815296 message

Let's make Illuvium Beyond Great Again!

cedar delta
#

i really like idea of having a separate leaderboards. it would, as you said, incentivize people to try and climb it without being intimidated by all - time leaderboard. i welcome competitiveness since it would give more engagement and thus more value to the whole system.

but before anything, some questions need to be answered:

1.) Would it be ok to pay 100 ilv weekly for it? would it burden DAO 2 much? even thou i like getting my ILV from all time leaderboard, i wonder if it is right way to do it. It might be better to have rewards as % of revenue earned by selling disks worth up to 100 ILV. but than it cuts into 95/5 % revenue share between stakers and land owners, so that would be a whole another beast to tackle.

2.) is it ok to give same amount as all- time leaderboard since for all-time leaderboard you have to (arguably) dish out more money to stay competitive?

3.) do rewards even need to be in ilv (maybe rewards can be in eth/disks)?

4.) How long would leaderboard be active? would it be till start of next wave or while the sale lasts?

These are just things that come up on top of my head, but still points that should be discussed.

frail berry
#

I like the idea. It should definitely help to drive fresh blood and excitement into the new waves.
One slight concern, I just dont think the rewards available for one wave should be equal to the rewards made available for having to compete in all waves (main leaderboard). Seems disproportionate considering the difficulties involved.

solid cipher
# tardy nova TLDR - Create separate leaderboards for the set and the current active wave once...

I suppose I have some minor concerns.

Firstly I wouldn't be too comfortable adding a whole other 100 ILV to the mix personally. I'd rather split it 50/50 or go 75 ILV per pool.

But the more pressing question is what do u do wave by wave. Do you have an individual pool for every wave, say wave 1/2/3/all, this seems like a lot, so what about the people who go hard on this wave 3, afterwards they lose all their rewards they were getting because wave 4 is launched, which means they need to go hard on wave 4 and actually creates the exact problem we are trying to avoid?

In this scenario we are almost sacrificing those in the middle in order to benefit the whales and the newcomers but it only benefits the newcomers for 3 months at which point they need to whale or lose.

Just kinda where my heads at.

tardy nova
# cedar delta i really like idea of having a separate leaderboards. it would, as you said, inc...

Thanks for those great points, after this initial feedback I think it's better we tune down the current-wave rewards since it isn't fair for it to be equal when the spending required to be in the all-time leaderboard is so much higher.

The rewards should be in ILV, since we have ILV allocated to distribute for in-game rewards. Instead of making the DAO to have to buy d1sks to distribute.

The current-wave rewards would only be active while the wave is underway and would stop when it ends.

frail berry
# solid cipher I suppose I have some minor concerns. Firstly I wouldn't be too comfortable add...

Firstly I wouldn't be too comfortable adding a whole other 100 ILV to the mix personally. I'd rather split it 50/50 or go 75 ILV per pool.

Personally I dont think reducing the rewards on the current leaderboard is a good idea as this will only reduce incentive to compete in the most competitive space.
We need to aim to increase demand by incentivising new participants, without deincentivising current players. A fine balancing act but one i'm sure is possible.

As a baseline I would suggest sticking with 100 ILV for the main leaderboard and 50 ILV for the individual waves.

But the more pressing question is what do u do wave by wave. Do you have an individual pool for every wave, say wave 1/2/3/all, this seems like a lot, so what about the people who go hard on this wave 3, afterwards they lose all their rewards they were getting because wave 4 is launched, which means they need to go hard on wave 4 and actually creates the exact problem we are trying to avoid?

I believe each wave should have it's own prize pool. It could even be a percentage of revenue so that it is all fully sustainable/justifyable.

In this scenario we are almost sacrificing those in the middle in order to benefit the whales and the newcomers but it only benefits the newcomers for 3 months at which point they need to whale or lose.

I think it would be a good idea to keep the rewards going indefinitely for all leaderboards.
Even as we get to set 2 wave 3 (for example), one could still choose to compete for the set 1 wave 3 leaderboard.
As I said earlier if all rewards are derived from Beyond revenue/profit, the rewards are fully justified and sustainable.

tardy nova
tardy nova
#

I mean if the product is sustainable it might be the best idea, just means less revenue for the DAO.

frail berry
tardy nova
#

yes maybe set 2 could be half the rewards

frail berry
#

When they begin to decay and how quickly they decay, that's the question. Providing we all agree that is a method we would like to adopt.

tardy nova
#

ok let me make the changes to the idea main thread

cedar delta
frail berry
cedar delta
tardy nova
solid cipher
tardy nova
#

if we were to create a leaderboard for each wave that would mean we could pump things right now with a wave 2 leaderboard

frail berry
solid cipher
solid cipher
tardy nova
tardy nova
frail berry
tardy nova
#

I'm liking this 😄

solid cipher
tardy nova
#

not if you had to choose one wave to participate

solid cipher
#

Lol I am not against the idea at all, just had some thoughts on my mind 🙂 I think this has been productive

solid cipher
tardy nova
#

for example now we have wave 1 and 2, ppl would have to choose which wave their best collection is at and choose the wave to be competing in that leaderboard

tardy nova
# solid cipher u split ur 1 wallet into 3

then you might not be able to be on the all-time leaderboard, but again if you're able to do that than you're a massive whale and should just be able to do it with all the money spent in beyond

solid cipher
tardy nova
#

this will push the competition @solid cipher no more bonding clown noses

frail berry
tardy nova
#

it also helps increase the accessories value

solid cipher
tardy nova
solid cipher
#

We need to consider that although Beyond covers its own ILV distribution on the surface, because of how revdis works idk if it makes enough. for 200+ ILV a week. But with the increased rewards I do expect higher demand

tardy nova
#

Just like ppl are creating alt accounts on the arena leaderboard. It's the same logic

#

And I'm totally fine with it

#

I've adjusted the thread, still going to improve it but give it a read

tardy nova
solid cipher
harsh mural
#

i like the idea of incentivizing newcomers to join the leaderboard. i believe the illuvitar value will increase with more new players.
the current leaderboard can be intimidating for newcomers with more waves launched.

i like the idea of two separate leaderboards:

  1. All-time leaderboard
  2. Current Wave leaderboard

All-time leaderboard
This is to reward early adopters. I see it as passive long term investment.

Current Wave leaderboard
This is similar to seasonal leaderboard. Newcomers can compete more easily in this leaderboard. maybe the leaderboard should end as the wave ends (end of season)

tardy nova
#

so if for example you are on the best wave 1 and wave 2 you would receive 100% from the wave 1 but only 50% from wave 2 and so on... 25% for wave 3 and 12.5% for wave 4

#

this would mitigate the DAO costs and not make the same whales dominate all leaderboards

#

you still have incentive to participate due to the in-game cosmetic rewards and what not but one person doesn't extract as much ILV from the DAO

frail berry
tardy nova
#

you wouldn't but then again, the main wallet would lose on the all-time leaderboard

harsh mural
#

thats my best effort to re-write my post because filow deleted the thread pepe_nani

tardy nova
#

thanks for the effort jag 🤣 Atlas_Love

frail berry
tardy nova
harsh mural
tardy nova
#

we can just scrap the diminishing return part if you guys think it's not justified

frail berry
#

I personally believe that it would, but would like to see more counter arguments form anyone that disagrees.

harsh mural
#

with more waves coming, the whales are going to solidify their position in the all-time leaderboard. it will be harder and harder for newcomers to compete with them there. i was gonna say the current-wave leaderboard rewards need to be higher than the all-time leaderboard, but maybe 1:1 is more fair?

tardy nova
#

yes we need some devils advocate in here

tardy nova
#

everyone in it will be against it you know. Just like the alpha sale thread and all the alpha holders flames

#

but again we can try and submit the idea to cut the rewards in half, but I doubt it will go through

frail berry
harsh mural
#

it could be 100 ILV and 100 ILV

tardy nova
#

as it was mentioned be4 and it does make sense for it to be the biggest reward since it's the most $ spending required

harsh mural
#

i was gonna say all-time 100 ILV and current wave > 100 ILV

tardy nova
#

isn't that too much? xD

#

that would mean for set 1 with the 5 waves a 600 ILV weekly spending

harsh mural
#

idk how much is too much
need the revenue data compared to rewards paid

tardy nova
#

yes we definitely need some numbers data in here

harsh mural
tardy nova
#

if we create this, I bet it would bring back many of those participating in wave 1 that didn't partake in wave 2

#

there are some in the leaderboard that have almost no bonded illuvitars, we still have alot of room to push there

harsh mural
#

u guys want to tag TSG?

#

for the revenue numbers and reward budget

tardy nova
#

shia labeouf

tardy nova
#

@echo badge care to chime in?

echo badge
tardy nova
#

we're interested in knowing the revenue and the numbers for beyond in order to see if this idea is feasible

tardy nova
tardy nova
wise prawn
#

For the main leaderboard: I would keep the ILV rewards as they are, and keep gradually expanding the number of rewarded positions as the playerbase grows. Positions 101+ could have disks as rewards.

On the topic of the main leaderboard being intimidating for newcomers to compete in, this is inevitable as we grow and I don't think it's a negative thing. No one is entitled to have a place on there, we all have to keep spending in every new wave if we want to keep our position. This means we have to keep more and more resources tied down in illuvitars, so it's natural that if a newcomer wants to be there, they will also need to shell out more and more to get there. And yes, this means it will become a whale game, many of us (including me) will be pushed out eventually, and that's fine.

As for the seasonal leaderboard, it's very difficult to take a reward away once you gave it, especially if it's a direct financial incentive. I would be cautious with giving ILV as a reward there. There will be people coming in the middle of a wave, apeing in without reading the fine print, making it to the leaderboard 3 weeks before it ends and complain when their ILV rewards are taken away.

I think the combination of disks and limited edition seasonal NFT rewards would work best. Disks could be given weekly and NFTs given out at the end of a wave based on a snapshot. Collectable NFTs are the bread and butter of this project and are likely become valuable down the line. As such, these are the best way to give out significant value without giving too much money away.

harsh mural
#

if d1sk is used a reward, the treasury need to buy the d1sk, because the revenue from d1sk sale need to be distributed to token stakers and landowners (pending IIP)

wise prawn
harsh mural
#

they should not increase mint supply for free

#

marketing is prob a low amount compared to ongoing leaderboard reward

wise prawn
# harsh mural they should not increase mint supply for free

Yes, the math would need to be done on this. But it's not like these would be given away for no reason. With the increased incentive they provide, people would likely spend more on disks and generate more trading commissions on the market, so even if the DAO does not pay for reward disks, the net income for stakeholders could still be positive - if done right. Luckily, we have a game economist in the team. 🙂

harsh mural
#

we have ILV token for ingame rewards. as for the game economist, i will ask the team if we hired one

frail berry
wise prawn
# frail berry I agree with the majority of what you say, the only disagreement would be with g...

Yes, I agree that dilution is a concern and I also did not like this idea first. Now, I'm not so sure, see what you think after considering these points:

  • Let's assume that with more players and album rewards after OB, we sell 200k disks in wave 3 and the wave lasts 4 months. Let's also assume we are giving away 100 disks weekly for 101-200 on the main leaderboard and another 100 for a seasonal leaderbaord. In this scenario, we would give away roughly 3400 disks, which is a 1.7% dilution. That's not so bad, imo.
  • Another point is that these would be reward disks for building up their collection, and in order to fill their album, they either have to buy loads of disks, or some illuvitars from the market, which would counteract price dilution by increasing demand. Probably eating up some of the 1.7% dilution as a net result.
  • By getting more people to participate in collecting illuvitars, more and more of them will get hooked on collecting and will be looking to buy some of your illuvitars from earlier waves. You might see some dilution for whatever the current wave is, but it may be more than offset by appreciating the value of your earlier wave holdings due to the increased demand.

Having said that, I would not be against giving out ILV instead, but disks seem to be the more cost effective rewards in the long term. And I would still like to see limited edition NFT rewards. For example, the top 3 could receive the holo battleboard skin from the current wave, top 10 could get the non-holo battleboard skin etc. Or we could even create new cosmetic NFTs like album skins, album frames, building skins for Zero, etc.

frail berry
# wise prawn Yes, I agree that dilution is a concern and I also did not like this idea first....

You do make some convincing arguments.
It would be interesting to poll current leaderboard participants to see whether they would find disk rewards as enticing as ILV.

And I would still like to see limited edition NFT rewards. For example, the top 3 could receive the holo battleboard skin from the current wave, top 10 could get the non-holo battleboard skin etc

I'm also a big fan of this idea. Seems like a complete no brainer.

tardy nova
#

Yeah I was about to say the same, really like that idea as well.

#

After OB is released I think we can dive a bit more deep into this kind of stuff

wide bear
#

Expanding the leaderboard and using D1SKs as rewards for Ranks 101 and below is a great idea. Perhaps start with 200 with wave 2 completed and expand by 50 at each wave. The risk of dilution is low and people who entered Beyond on a Wave leaderboard would welcome disks to fill in new areas of their album they did not participate in. For this reason a suggestion may be to begin using an allocation of D1SKS from the previous Wave as rewards during each standardised 4 month Wave sale cycle.

#

I also believe that at the conclusion of each Wave; a set of fun "NFT Trophies" are awarded in fun mini competitions during a 6 week down time aimed at promoting bonding, collecting backgrounds, and to create buzz as we get ready for the next. Comps like "Illuvitar Body Building", "Beauty Pageants", Stand up Comic" "Story Boards" all using Illuvitars from that concluded wave. This cost the DAO nothing and creates friendly tournaments to keep the community entertained.

#

Those Trophies should be sponsored by the Partner in that wave...