Recognize alpha d1sks for what they are - 1º Editions (and not nfts for whales)

[coarse crystal]

TLDR - Have the alpha sale run for a 24h duration or until all alpha d1sks are bought (numbers still being discussed) and remove the alpha price multiplier making them the same price as their extended counterparts. Alpha d1sks would only be available to buy with ETH.

Since we still haven't released the OB I believe this is the right time to make this final adjustment to the alpha sale and make it what it should have always been, a limited 1º edition release. If we don't act now it will be too late once the OB releases since this type of adjustments will only make sense to have after the current set finishes, which could be 1-2 years from now.

I believe this product was initially misjudged when we sold wave 1 alphas with a 5x multiplier and it conditioned removing the price multiplier for wave 2.

The wave 2 alpha d1sks had a 2x multiplier and the alpha sale was still very lackluster compared to the alpha wave 1 with a 5x multiplier which shows we clearly don't have enough interest in the alpha product as things stand.

I believe that by removing the price multiplier on the alpha d1sks, making them accessible only in the first 24h and capping their supply like it was on wave 1 will greatly boost the interest in them. And consequently increase the sales numbers.

This will bode well with the launch party, where having the alpha numbers capped with no price multiplier can create a bigger fomo sentiment and at the same time reward those who are present on the day the wave releases.

It was a mistake to try and be a market maker instead of letting the market dictate the price for these items. Alphas are first edition illuvitars and will be highly sought after in the future from collectors that love the Illuvium project. There is no need to try and artificially inflate their value. Let their scarcity speak for itself.

Alpha d1sks would only be available to buy with ETH.

Let's make Illuvium Beyond Great Again!

[unborn eagle]

con: people who missed out the first 24h might feel left behind and maybe decide against buying the non alpha

[coarse crystal]

the 24 hour limit makes this an event in and of itself. And they can always buy from the secondary

alphas give no bonuses so there isn't that much feeling of being left behind

[west bay]

I do not share this opinion.
Let those who collect at a premium price do so, otherwise its as if we remove their product from them , a collection that they started witch they can never finish in the same way that they started.

[unborn eagle]

if we get like the same disks mint rewards we see some whale buys in the first 24h and much volume via secondary

[coarse crystal]

this has the potential to sell out the megas in minutes

I've seen it from other web3 games releases like Splinterlands for example

[unborn eagle]

if the price is = non alpha price, capping wouldnt be necessary

and then you only have some whales who bought all

[coarse crystal]

first editions in real world are always finite, I think we should emulate that

@shut stag can't you type in here?

[unborn eagle]

same price and capping like in wave 1 i think wont be a fun event

[long siren]

Price point didn't really scare me. It's the ability of every single community member to change things like this, lingering throughout each wave, that should win Halloween contests. If I were a whale, I would not enter this project because of that very reason.

You say we sold less in wave 2, even with lower prices. I say we probably sold less, because we changed prices.

I also think you are a bit optimistic with your math and expectations/impact of OB. But that's fine, #Iusedtobeamoonboytoo

All that said, I do agree that in an ideal world we would have some sort of alpha sale with the same prices as the extended run. But that world, for me, no longer exists after 2 waves of not having that. And changing again, imo, would be way worse than paying a premium.

[coarse crystal]

I think we shouldn't be hammering down on making changes when this is something new that no one really knew how to best build it.

And I fail to grasp what the point of the DAO and these feedback-ideas is if not for us, the community, to make suggestions to the team to improve the game...

[dark lantern]

Alphas have dissapointed. Current alpha pricing has not retained inital cost/value because there is nothing special about them other than a little stamp. So this proposal makes sense in that Alphas are no different than the full release other than being first... and that doesn't justify more cost. Instead, the hefty initial alpha price felt like a cash grab whether intentional or not. At the time, for w1, alphas helped Illuvium as a whole because it created a lot of hype and showed they could bring in big players and revenue... hence speculation. But now the music has mellowed and Alphas have largely become useless because there is nothing special about them. If there were special alpha slots in the album... then ofc there would be instant demand. But as is stands... I agree alpha d1sks should be valued the same as regular d1sks but for a limited time and quantity.

[coarse crystal]

@west bay I still fail to grasp why you're so against this

[coarse crystal]

we need to cap it like in wave 1 otherwise things could go wrong and we could drain purchases from the extended sale. And I think that it's the fact that it is limited that gives it extra value.

[west bay]

Alpha D1sks = D1sks with a price premium.
Why change that?

[coarse crystal]

alpha D1sks = First edition D1sks

[long siren]

Well, probably an unpopular opinion but I don't think the DAO should intervene in a straightforward product like Beyond too much.

Also, it's not like this is a new idea. This has all been discussed before, even before the launch of the first sale (and at length between waves). If the DAO did not intervene in a particular way then, that decision should not change whenever someone new is elected, or someone new enters the space and has a 'groundbreaking' idea.

That's how bureaucracies start, and that's how they fall.

[dark lantern]

have you seen the value of alpha d1sks and illuvitars now in relation to their releases?

[coarse crystal]

yes 100% but the thing is now we have more data than when wave 1 was released. Let's make use of it to better the product.

[dark lantern]

It can't be expected to be successful if there's no demand

[west bay]

Yes!
And i see that as irrelevant.

[long siren]

Yes, but that data is flawed (or tainted at best). Because of premature changes, which is part of my point. But I don't think either of us will change the others mind. And that's fine.

[coarse crystal]

yes it's all good, everyone has their opinion

[dark lantern]

👀

[west bay]

my point is, if you bought an Alpha disk, you got an alpha disk. if you can sell that at a lower or higher price afterwards is irrelevant. you get what you buy

We are selling to collectors at two different price points, if we change that now, we alienate one of those two groups.

[coarse crystal]

I'll just say that I find this logic flawed since it was already the DAO that changed the d1sk price and the alpha sale structure for wave 2.

[coarse crystal]

we absolutely do not because they are separate waves

if that was the case that logic should also be applied to the extended versions d1sks when we changed their prices for wave 2

[west bay]

So those people only got two waves?

[coarse crystal]

I fail to grasp your logic

[west bay]

If i want to collect this, and pay a premium for it, then my progress stops when i cant keep doing so, and i bought into thinking that this was something for me that would be ongoing

do you catch my drift?

[coarse crystal]

yeah I do, you're saying you want alpha beyond to be a product for the whales that like to collect expensive stuff only

[long siren]

Hmm, don't see how my logic is flawed there? You compare sales of wave 1 with sales of wave 2. While parameters changed. I think that impacts the objectivity of comparing both. And fyi, I was very much against changing prices back then too. It's nothing personal.

[coarse crystal]

I was against changing prices too just to be clear

I thought that wave 1 was a success and you don't change winning formulas

but hey we changed it and here we are now... So why not try and fix it?

[dark lantern]

Bro. Idk if you were there from the beginning or not. But as a participant since the beginning of Beyond I haven't seen Alphas meet the hype. I bought a bunch during wave 1, some during wave 2... and was planning te get even less for w3. But... if pricing becomes equal to regular d1sks I would consider participating more.

[west bay]

No, there are two entry points
But i think we see this "first edition" thing differently, if we both pull an Ophisto, same background and everything, and you bought your disk on the 25th Jan, and i bought mine 26th Jan, it makes no difference to me

[coarse crystal]

you prove my thesis ty @dark lantern

[coarse crystal]

one has an alpha stamp the other hasn't it makes a whole lot diffence for collectors trust me

which is what the alpha is targeting... Collectors!

[west bay]

But that is kind of the thing, the alpha sale is not made to make as much people as possible to participate, on the contrary (This is my take on the whole, for whale's thing)

[coarse crystal]

if it wasn't why would we have lowered the price multiplier for wave 2 then ?

[west bay]

I am a collector, and i dont care for the alpha stamp, and if i think so, then atleast there should be a couple of others that thinks the same

[coarse crystal]

it's not about the stamp it's about the rarity, I'm sure if you're a collector you understand that

[west bay]

I dont remember the reason why to this. But strange yes

[coarse crystal]

you seem to be a bit out of the loop sorry to say this @west bay

[dark lantern]

Let's be real here... Beyond has little utility besides pfp and leaderboard rewards. There is not much to draw new players in because it takes a whole lot to catch up from past releases in order to make leaderboard. Unless you wanna milk the drops from a few old whales then sure... then keep it costing more. You wanna make it accesble for new people... make it accessible.

[fossil juniper]

Just wanted to echo this sentiment... bough some alpha w1/w2, don't see the point in doing so again for w3 should they be priced significantly higher (might tolerate like +20%).

[west bay]

So, if we sell out on this proposal, 120.000 alpha disks, that would make the none alpha the rare one's

[coarse crystal]

ty for sharing this 🫡

[coarse crystal]

that would mean the alpha sale was a uber success even more than in wave 1 alpha that we only sold 40k d1sks

[west bay]

but with the same pricepoint as non alpha, so no difference in revenue, and we would now have completely destroyed the concept that was sold about alphas

[coarse crystal]

We sold 20k alpha mega d1sks and roughly 20k alpha standards on wave 1 and we sold 1700 alpha mega d1sks and 8500 alpha standard d1sks on wave 2.

if you can't see the decline here I don't know what to tell you. And they were even cheaper in wave 2...

[coarse crystal]

for me this is restoring the original concept, thus the title of this idea. Alphas are NOT whale nfts

[west bay]

I understand that we sell less, becaus those that speculated on them from wave 1 notice that it was not a bet worth taking again. and like i said, the point in them is to price out the average collector

[west bay]

But that is the original concept, they were meant for whales

[coarse crystal]

well whales seem to have lost interest, what can I say....
Let's make beyond great again

[west bay]

And where did you get that from? have they spoken to you?

[coarse crystal]

I'll just post this here since @shut stag can't type in here
SpaceWanderer — Today at 5:52 PM
says "you don''t have permission to send messages in this channel" weird. Anyway, I like the idea of not having price premium on alphas. Have burned too much on the first wave. I'd rather get alpha on the secondary and pay extreme premium in a market where illuvium has proven itself and delivered on the experience, than to overpay initially and speculate on the possible future value and hold for indefinite amount of time. I understand that everyone has their own perspective tho, hope the best idea wins.

[dark lantern]

Beyond needs more utility than currently exists. But that's a different convo than this but the point still needs to be made. Because people speculated on the success of Beyond in w1... but as time has gone by it's become apparent that value has not retained, rather has declined... and fresh liquidity is for the most part absent. Had there been more utility... or even the prospect of it (Johnny's shelved card game proposal)... then we'd see hope, at least. So yah... dwindling interest in a product that needs some love in order to be great again. Oh the challenges of making 4 games simultaneously.

Good luck filow... I need coffee ☕

[turbid wren]

I’ll post some of the counter arguments made in this exact same discussion prior to wave 2:

You are not forced to buy alpha disks. If you don’t like them or think are overpriced, that’s fine, wait for the non-alpha sale.

Limiting the # of alpha d1sks may lead to community members being left out with no option to buy. We may even see a bot buying all at once and controlling the entirety of the alpha D1sks.

Many community members complained about the possible 24 window for wave 2 alpha sale. You may not be able to buy in that short timespan and that’s why it was extended a bit longer.

I am big fan of alphas. I want them to stay and I am willing to pay a premium for alpha D1sks.

[sturdy juniper]

and we would now have completely destroyed the concept that was sold about alphas

The concept was flawed.
They have always been 1st editions and 1st editions only, a premium should never have been charged for them.
If the concept was misleading people into believing that they are purchasing a premium product by simply charging them a premium, then that as a concept deserves to be destroyed.

I believe a time/quantity limited sale, along with equal pricing would be the way to go. The cap would be ideal as to avoid over saturation and also to create fomo.

[sturdy juniper]

You are not forced to buy alpha disks. If you don’t like them or think are overpriced, that’s fine, wait for the non-alpha sale.

I'm sure everyone is well aware of that.
Wave 3 alphas are a disaster waiting to happen.
It makes sense that the community would try their best to avoid this and give it the best possible shot at success.

Limiting the # of alpha d1sks may lead to community members being left out with no option to buy. We may even see a bot buying all at once and controlling the entirety of the alpha D1sks.

That's the whole point of a limited sale. People will be left out. It's that fear of being left out that drives demand/hype.

Many community members complained about the possible 24 window for wave 2 alpha sale. You may not be able to buy in that short timespan and that’s why it was extended a bit longer.

Making the sale unlimited and extending the sale window will kill any fomo/buzz for the sale. We will all be clock watching waiting for it to be over.

IMO it needs to be very limted and quick. Snooze and you loose. You need to feel that loss if you miss it too. Make sure you don't miss future waves.

[coarse crystal]

I was about to answer but you nailed it @sturdy juniper

[west bay]

But it was the concept that was sold. That there are some people that whant to buy that product, and why not let them?

[sturdy juniper]

If it happens to be the majority, let their voices be heard. If not then why should we sacrifice potential success to cater to a minority and ensure failure.

[coarse crystal]

are you one of those @west bay ? Just out of curiosity how many alpha d1sks have you purchased?

[west bay]

its not the majority, but it would be mean to start a journey for these people only to remove it from them. and doing it because prople does not think that its fair, when it is just that witch they bought

[west bay]

Nope! that is not for me

[coarse crystal]

did you read the whole idea I wrote or just the TLDR?

so you're just a loud voice that doesn't even belong to that minority

[sturdy juniper]

A journey of overpaying for stuff 😆
I really dont understand where you are coming from.
For someone that collects Alphas, you still can, nothing is being taken away from anyone.
Or is it that you feel they want the sale to perform terribly so that they remain ultra rare?

[west bay]

everything, but now im off, for a while, i'll leave you to it, good luck!

[west bay]

Yes i know, its werid, but that was keirans explanation, that there were people that wanted a product that was outpricing the majority, and thats where the idea of Alpha came from

[coarse crystal]

that's the whole point of this discussion. The team initially misjudged the target audience for this product...

this ain't a product for whales... It's a product for those who love Illuvium and want to collect special things.

just like first edition cards

you can play with them if you want, but usually they stay wrapped in plastic to be preserved

having alpha illuvitars that are only available on the 1º day of each wave is something very special

they are exactly the same as the others but you know they are special because they were the first ever minted

[turbid wren]

Limit the sale - sell 25% of the total amount offered and the even the web 2 folks will know about Illuvium’s disaster as you called it. It sends a really bad signal to the market.

Limit the sale - let the fastest bot pick up all the D1sks offered within minutes and you won’t many happy campers in the Illuvium discord.

It’s a dangerous game you’re playing.

[coarse crystal]

Let me get this straight. Having a cap worked fine for wave 1 but now it's a problem?

Also I'm sure if we're afraid of bots buying it all up we can come up with some counter measures for that. Maybe limit the purchases from 1 account to 100 per minute or something like that.

And is it better to sell 25% of the total amount offered or have a lackluster sale like it was with wave 2 which even had over the top individual stretch goals?

[sturdy juniper]

Limit the sale - sell 25% of the total amount offered and the even the web 2 folks will know about Illuvium’s disaster as you called it. It sends a really bad signal to the market.

With equal pricing I believe it is safe to reasonably assume that they would sell out.
There will be absolutely no reason not to purchase them if you are looking to purchase disks anyway, unless you simply couldn't make the sale for whatever reason.
I also don't think web 2 has any clue what is going on here, especially before OB and the new cycle kicking off. Hence why now is the ideal time to implement such change, before too many eyes are on us.

Limit the sale - let the fastest bot pick up all the D1sks offered within minutes and you won’t many happy campers in the Illuvium discord.

Ok, let's assume that there are 10,000 mega disks ($45) and 50,000 standard disks ($6), that is $750k. Do you honestly think that there is anyone in our community solely willing to bankroll a buyout of Wave 3 Alphas for $750k. Seems far fetched to me.

It’s a dangerous game you’re playing.

It's a calculated risk.

[turbid wren]

What seems far fetched to me is a scenario in which in 24h we sell half the number of d1sks that we sold in 5+ months - common

I’d rather avoid the double edge sword of having to estimate sales by putting a cap on D1sks. We don’t have to agree on this.

And btw the web 2 reference was an exaggeration, obv something like this will never reach such an audience - maybe this is not the forum to do so, apologies. What I do believe though is that falling too short on selling D1sks offered will send a bad signal to those who are actually paying attention.

[coarse crystal]

it's called FOMO. Everyone that intends to buy d1sks will want to buy them at the alpha sale with the prospect for them to be more valuable then their extended version counterparts.

[turbid wren]

The point I make above Filow, is the difficulty of having to estimate the FOMO you alude to. Failing to do so by over or under estimating will not be beneficial and it’s part of the reason I’d avoid it.

[coarse crystal]

This is something that it will get easier and easier to make a "good" estimate with the previous sales numbers and current number of players.

I've seen Splinterlands do it successfully twice now so pls don't tell me it's not possible.

They don't have alphas, but they do a pre-sale. We could learn from them in terms of selling sets/waves

[dark lantern]

From what I recall there are anti-botting measures. Only 10 d1sks able to be purchased at a time. Doesn't stop botting... but reduces the impact and allows everyone to get d1sks.

[cursive elm]

Playind devil's advocate: if the same price applies, I would use all my wave 3 budget to buy alphas in the first minute of the sale (some might bot this). Because their supply would be limited, I am guaranteed to make a profit as soon as the alpha sale concludes. So I would sell many alphas, buy normal disks and cash-in on the difference (while also farming even more purchase milestone rewards). More profit for me and less for the DAO...

[coarse crystal]

Haven't ppl been doing this already with the sILV2 arbitrage move?

And let's be real how likely is it to buy all the d1sks you want on day one and no more during the next 3-6 months?

[sturdy juniper]

What seems far fetched to me is a scenario in which in 24h we sell half the number of d1sks that we sold in 5+ months - common

The reason behind the lackluster mega disk sales were due to the broken reward structure hugely incentivising the standard disk sales.
They actually made you feel bad for purchasing a mega disk.

I would also suggest making these changes in conjunction with the changes called for in this proposal (providing they both get the neccessary votes) https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1197062814456614912

Bottom line, how I think the next sale should be approached.

1. Fix the broken disk purchase reward structure so that both standard and mega disks are equally incentivised.

2. Create new leaderboards for the individual waves.

3. Create equal pricing for Alphas/Unlimited.

4. New 24 hour sale window and smaller supply limit on the available disks (supply numbers to be debated).

All combined this will create a fair, accessible and exciting wave, that should contribute to being more profitable.
We should also see more market participants during wave 3 due to the launch of OB and the new cycle kicking off post halving. Not to mention the new Beyond promo partner that will launch mid wave.

I'm with @coarse crystal, let's make Beyond great again!

[coarse crystal]

Glad you're on board with this @sturdy juniper
Let's Make Beyond great!

[coarse crystal]

Just want to mention that I agree we should discuss the available d1sks for the alpha sale.
The numbers I suggested were simply the same that were used in the wave 1 alpha for consistency sake.
Since we sold out on the Megas but only 20k Standards were bought we could adjust a bit the numbers for wave 3.

[turbid wren]

I’m all for making Beyond great again.

My take on those 4 points, for what it’s worth (again, we don’t have to agree):

1. Yes – Something to consider is that 4/8k wave 3 Megas will be minted “for free” during the next wave. Let’s make them worth more opened than resold on the secondary market by also incentivizing Megas in this wave.

2. All for it

3. I am happy to pay a premium for alphas. I value them and I am collecting almost exclusively alphas bc I don’t care as much about the ones without the stamp.
   Having said this, I would feel like a fool paying the same amount for a non-alpha disk – similar to your feeling with wave 2 Megas - and is something I just wouldn’t do other than to buy and sell unopened D1sks to exploit broken goal rewards.
   No one is forcing players to purchase the premium product. If it’s not for you don’t buy it.

4. I stated my opinion and reasoning above. I’ll just end by remembering how awful the GS Sale looked, reaching less than 25% of the total D1sks offered forcing the team to extend the sale due to “technical difficulties” and even then we barely reached 50%. It reflected pretty badly on us and it could’ve been avoided by not setting a cap.

[coarse crystal]

3. wouldn't you be happier to continue staking alphas for a lower price this time tho? Or are you afraid this will devalue your wave 1/2 alphas?
   Genuine question.

And regarding exploiting unopened D1sks that already happens ALOT with the sILV2 arbitrage going on. Even more with the crazy individual stretch-goals.

[coarse crystal]

4. GS sale was a failed sale let's not use that as an example. It was a very expensive d1sk with only 1 illuvitar in it and it almost always gave an archie or a dokka. It was bad.

On the other hand the GS sale showed us what not to do and the TL sale was a much better experience overall.

[sturdy juniper]

No one is forcing players to purchase the premium product. If it’s not for you don’t buy it.

Of course and they aren't, hence the poor sales.

The question is, do we cater to a small select group of people and have yet another underwhelming start to a wave, or do we make some changes that will engage far more people and help to kick off the wave with a bang, whilst also generating more revenue for the DAO.

4. I stated my opinion and reasoning above. I’ll just end by remembering how awful the GS Sale looked, reaching less than 25% of the total D1sks offered forcing the team to extend the sale due to “technical difficulties” and even then we barely reached 50%. It reflected pretty badly on us and it could’ve been avoided by not setting a cap.

This is comparing apples to oranges.
The GS sale was one of it own 😅 . It was bad for so many reasons, most fully accept this.
The TL sale on the other hand demonstrated that with a few tweaks in the right areas you can turn a flop into a complete banger. Now promos are something to look forward to and I strongly believe that we can do this with Alpha waves too.

[coarse crystal]

All we want is to make a killer alpha sale. And in the long run if these are a banger and gets more ppl excited it will reflect on the value of the alpha illuvitars as well.

[cursive elm]

1. silv2 arbitrage is a separate topic and not relevant to this discussion I guess. The arbitrage I mentioned can be done even with eth if the alphas are priced at the same level

2. I think what I said is different from what you understood. My point is if I budgeted 1 eth for the whole wave, I would spend all of it on Alpha, sell in secondary for 1.5 eth (just an example), cash in 0.5 eth then buy disks during the duration of wave 3 as initially planned.
   Conclusion: I make an easy 0.5 eth and not the DAO (and that profit can be spent out of the ILV ecosystem)

Fun fact: this strategy would have worked during wave 2 despite the higher pricing of alphas but there was a risk to it (getting stuck with disks that are more expensive than the normal one). If prices are made equal, I can't even imagine how much of a no-brainer it'll be because that risk is gone.

Otherwise, totally agree on the other points about fixing the rewards and having a wave-specific leaderboard

[coarse crystal]

I don't see why this would be a bad thing. In the end if you buy more d1sks with the 0.5 eth you made it's just more revenue for the DAO overall. What am I missing here?

[turbid wren]

Yes, equal pricing means changing both alpha and non-alphas value proposition mid-way through the set. I understand your pov and reasons for the requested change, I just a different one.
How many TL D1sks were minted throughout the sale?

[coarse crystal]

If you decide to spend it elsewhere, than that's your move it's all good. The profits were yours.

[coarse crystal]

haven't we already changed pricing for wave 2 so...

it's not changing non-alphas value proposition imo

alphas have no added benefit besides being a 1ºst edition preferred by collectors

listen I'm fine if we don't change this, just don't get surprise if we don't sell jack sh1t again on the alpha sales

and you didn't answer my question. Are you afraid this will devalue your wave 1/2 alphas?

[cursive elm]

The issue here is that this would create an easy opportunity for value extraction out of the ILV ecosystem. Because it's such an easy profit to make, ppl will try to exploit this (that's what ppl do) and many will just come take a profit and leave.

Whether we like or not, there is a perceived value difference between alphas and normal disks. We can argue whether that should be 3x or 1.2x but that premium is there. My point is simple: I would rather have the DAO benefit from some of that difference. Equal pricing means all that premium goes to buyers many of whom can and will buy in bulk, make a very quick profit and leave.

[unborn eagle]

What about same price but eth only?

[coarse crystal]

they need to come and buy the d1sks be4 they sell them anyway so only boosts the sale. You say it's ez profit but they still have to sell the d1sks.

[turbid wren]

You didn't answer mine. How many TL D1sks were minted throughout the sale?

[coarse crystal]

uhh I like that idea for the alpha sale

[coarse crystal]

GameStop sold 10 676
Team Liquid sold 8 492

your turn to answer @turbid wren

[coarse crystal]

I'll add that to the idea, ty

just like promo d1sks, alphas should only be bought with ETH 100%

[cursive elm]

It is easy profit. Wave 2 alphas were priced at a multiple and despite that they became profitable the minute the alpha sale window closed. Anyways, I made my point and we don't have to agree.

For the record, I don't like the very high difference in pricing of the alphas and I was initially in favour of not having them at all. So I get the rationale of your proposal. Just think making them equal in price is not necessarily the best solution.

[sturdy juniper]

With that people wont be able to arbitrage, but they could with unlimited disk purchases, which would enable people to effectively purchase those with a discount to Alphas.

[coarse crystal]

exactly

[coarse crystal]

I did it in wave 2 as well for the bonuses, so I get what you're saying.

I would appreciate if we could push this with the 25 thumbs up in order to make this a proposal for the council to decide

[sturdy juniper]

Also, with the addition of the new leaderboard reward incentives, the demand should be greater for unlimited variants for bonding purposes, as you are highly unlikely to want to pay a premium on the aftermarket for an Alpha, when you can access the unlimited variant cheaper.

Also, also 😅 . If there is enough demand for Alphas that there is an instant premium for them upon completion of the wave, that is a huge win as it will only help to fuel demand for future Alpha waves as anyone that is lucky enough to be able to grab any, will be able to profit on them. If that isn't a recipe for fomo I dont know what is.

[turbid wren]

GameStop – 10.5k at $50 – Flop
Team Liquid – 8.5k at $45 – Complete banger
I know paying $50 for a Doka is nuts and sucks but part of the perception of success or failure is due to expectations set prior to the sale. I don’t think the team went with unlimited D1sks for the TL unintentionally.

And to answer you question, yes. Imo your changing its value proposition

[sturdy juniper]

We just need to be able to strike a balance of the Alpha supply, so that the ratios are acceptable upon wave completion. As an example: Alpha/Unlimited 1:4.

This is tricky though as it is difficult to predict the demand throughout the entire wave.
If you was looking to achieve a 4:1 ratio (unlimited/alpha), and the projection was 30,000 mega disks sold throughout wave 3, limiting the Alpha sale to 6000 disks would be ideal.

[coarse crystal]

You gotta put things into perspective tho. There were a lot more players involved around wave 1 than they were at wave 2. Plus many that bought the 1º promo were let down and didn't touch this 2º promo. GS and TL are two different things and the price difference of 5$ is close to nothing. Even with all that you managed to sell almost the same number of d1sks.

and the "complete banger" was more to the overall community feedback from the d1sk opening experience.

let's put it this way @turbid wren, we sold 20k mega d1sks on alpha wave 1 and 1720 on wave 2 how many do you think we will sell on wave 3? 500?

the numbers are clearly going down, if we don't do something it will be an horrible sale

[turbid wren]

Absolutlely, but I don't think the overall sentiment wouldn't been the same if there was a 20k limit at the beginning.

[coarse crystal]

it was the 20k cap that created the fomo my friend can't you see it?

[turbid wren]

I have no clue and I don't think anyone has. That's why I don't think setting a limit is wise

[coarse crystal]

that's why the standards stopped at the 20k mark as well

being limited gives it extra perceived value than being unlimited

[turbid wren]

Anyway, I'm done trying to make my point. I hope you at least understand where I'm coming from. Thanks for keeping an eye on the community

[coarse crystal]

sure let's make like wave 2, 3 days unlimited and then almost nobody buys...

[coarse crystal]

thanks for the feedback 🫡

[sturdy juniper]

That's the thing, we know how that story goes.

[coarse crystal]

right?

what can I say, at least we're trying...

[sturdy juniper]

So we have to decide whether we fight to make them a better proposition or let them fade away into obscurity like a fart in the wind.

At this rate if we do nothing, they will likely be scrapped altogether by set 2.

[coarse crystal]

Timming is everything guys. We either act now or this will deteriorate into oblivion like @sturdy juniper just said.

[fading raft]

Haven't read through this whole thread but what about this idea to add to Alpha... have a guarantee of everything in that set, more like a real print run. So every card is in alpha. one more reason to buy early more likely to get the rares in a limited set.

[leaden horizon]

How to add value to first Alpha gen1 disk that were the most expensive ?

[sturdy juniper]

I like it, definitely will be exciting knowing that the holo tier 5's are guaranteed in the disks.
I think we need someone from the team to chime in on that one though as it may require a lot fo work to make it happen. As it has to go live before OB, not sure the time can be invested here.

[fading raft]

If I was beyond god would:
(1) Alpha mega d1sk only
(2) Must use ETH (OP's idea)
(3) Same price as extended run (OP's idea) (or small multiplier 1.25)
(4) Every card in set in alpha
(5) Limited supply, keep alpha until sold out and then go to extended run.... makes the most logical sense if we are going with the print run alpha idea.
(6) Make some community rewards for selling out quicker - 1 day get this, 1 week get this.

[coarse crystal]

the only way I see to add value to the first alphas is to bring back the spark for alphas overall with great alpha sales and excitement for them.

continuing to have bad alpha sales will just devalue the initial wave 1 alphas

wave 2 already did it... Sadly... and that's the reason for my campaign. We made alpha ophistos rarer than the alpha rhamphyres. When that shouldn't have happened.

and if nothing is done I bet with you this wave 3 will be even rarer, which will devalue even more wave 1 alphas

[coarse crystal]

I like (1) but that would make alpha T0's ultra rare so it has its ups and downs

[leaden horizon]

maybe bring some utility for OG alpha disk. Like special collection or smth.

[coarse crystal]

don't think that would cut it. Alphas are meant to not give any bonuses.

Although Johnny said that maybe in the future if there is a game with illuvitars alphas can have some extra perks.

Believe me, if you want the alpha wave 1 d1sks to perform well we need to have amazing alpha sales where things sell out and ppl get excited with alphas again. Be it for the profits, the rarity, the future prospects, etc... This is the way.

[fading raft]

I think at least an set 1 alpha collection inside beyond might not be bad. So at least there will be some tug to collect them. It shouldn't give you a huge bonus (or maybe no points) tho since @coarse crystal is right it's not meant to give you any bonus.

[coarse crystal]

The team said they wouldn't do this since the beginning but hey, if some1 throws a proposal and the community votes on it it might happen who knows.

Now some can argue like @fading raft did maybe we keep a 1.25x multipliers instead of being the same price. But I think that only being able to buy them with ETH and not have the sILV2 discount makes up for that.

we'll create a much bigger FOMO if they are the same price trust me

everyone will want to buy the alphas this way

it stops being a product for a few and it starts being a huge FOMO event with a launch party to kickstart a new wave

[leaden horizon]

just can't get my head around the price of the gen 1 alpha with the price of disk now

[fading raft]

The argument has been made no one will want to buy after alpha. But i think that is just short sighted also because there is currently not a lot of engagement or reasons to bond ATM. If I buy a shit ton of alphas and then have a lot of unfinished collections I should be motivated to finish those collections so I will buy more with my next pay check and that weeks disposable income.

[coarse crystal]

well what's the price alpha wave 1 Mega D1sks they are selling now on the secondary market? 195$
whats the price alpha wave 2 Mega D1sks are selling on secondary market? 215$
I rest my case.
The market doesn't care how much you paid for them. What matters is their scarcity and their perceived value

alpha wave 1 buyers are you losing money left to right
the product failed to retain it's value cause it was overpriced and the hype died

[fading raft]

I really think that ship has sailed and we do not know what the future market will be. Alpha was a speculators game, it might still work out if alpha stays popular and the game is even more popular

[coarse crystal]

this is what bear markets do, they bring you down to Earth

[fading raft]

My hope would be for wave3 to be delayed until some major overhauls get implemented

[coarse crystal]

@sturdy juniper previously mentioned the ratio between alphas and non alphas. I believe this is important as well.
Let's look at the numbers. Wave 2 has a ratio of 7.2% alpha mega d1sks bought compared to their extended version where wave 1 has a ratio of 44%

I think for an idea of alphas being first editions, wave 1 was clearly overtuned, overpriced and overhyped

Albeit this constrast is not has big regarding the standard d1sks

[gusty lava]

I'll recycle a previous idea of mine.
Any disk opened in week one of the sale gives you alpha illuvitar,
Any disk held past that is just a plain disk.
No alpha disks, no different pricing.
You get early buying and loading due to alpha stamp.
You get late buying because the only disks you can keep unopned are still selling.

[coarse crystal]

Interesting idea but I think that's too much to change now @gusty lava

[fading raft]

I still like this idea

[coarse crystal]

I just want to hammer on this point one last time. Do you guys really think it makes a difference to over pay for things and try to be market makers?
It doesn't... And the proof is in the pudding.
Although we lowered the price for wave 2 alpha d1sks now they are more expensive than wave 1, may that be a lesson.

[coarse crystal]

I've crunched the numbers guys take a look

Wave 1

alpha d1sks sold
20 619 standards
20 015 megas

normal d1sks sold
101 671 standards
45 421 megas

standard ratio = 20% = 1/5
mega ratio = 44% = 1/2.3

Wave 2

alpha d1sks sold
8 531 standards
1 720 megas

normal d1sks sold
114 422 standards
23 610 megas

standard ratio = 7.46% = 1/13.4
mega ratio = 7.29% = 1/13.7

We can clearly see that the alpha sale on wave 1 was waaaaay over hyped, over priced and that punished the extended sale which didn't sell enough to keep the scarcity on alphas thus devaluing alphas for not making them rare has they're supposed to be.

In one way it was great for the DAO making massive profits with this 1º alpha sale but on the other hand it punished everyone and deterred them from wanting to participate as much on future alpha sales.
This was bound to happen as these things are always hard to predict specially with no background history. But I must say the team really on-boarded the hype train back then.

Now, contrary to back then we have 2 waves of data to analyse. The ratio on wave 2 between alphas and normal ones was much better, but the alpha sale was very lackluster even though the premium price on them was lowered.

I believe we can make a comeback on wave 3 if we play our cards right. Bring more money to the DAO with the alpha sale and bring back the hype for alphas, kick starting what will be the best wave so far along with the OB launch.

If we treat alphas like 1º editions I would say the perfect ratio would a 1/10.

Let's also keep in mind that this time around we're already going to have 5 900 future wave 3 Mega D1sks being minted through the wave 2 individual stretch goals.

I'm going to present two wave 3 sale projections, one conservative and another more optimistic.

This will be considering the alpha sale sells out completely, which I believe will happen due to not having a premium price associated this time around and all the FOMO this will bring.

Also I'm expecting a larger number of Mega D1sks to be sold then it was on wave 2 with the changes I proposed on the idea

#1197418202196619344 message

This will make Mega D1sks much more enticing this time around.

• Conservative approach 1️⃣

5 000 Alpha Mega d1sks and 10 000 Alpha Standard D1sks sold

To have a 1:10 ratio this would mean we would have to sell on the extended sale:

50 000 Mega D1sks and 100 000 Standard D1sks

• Optimistic approach 2️⃣

10 000 Alpha Mega d1sks and 20 000 Alpha Standard D1sks sold

To have a 1:10 ratio this would mean we would have to sell on the extended sale:

100 000 Mega D1sks and 200 000 Standard D1sks

It's up to you to decide what route we should take, this is the power of the DAO!

[west bay]

Aaron spoke of illuvitars that might come in other sets that can work as placeholders to complete collections ( like "dark atlas" and so on). I would like to think that all disks/illuvitars from a wave is first edition, and what comes after that might be second edition.
Creating or forcing "first edition" in the way that this idea proposes does not appeal to me, and it does feel rather short sighted.
I also think that there are some people like me who did not want alphas to begin with, and who would like to keep them separated from the non alphas, as they have been