Clear Rules during Beta on "ban-able offenses"

[broken rose]

In-Game Rules should also be added in #✍〕rules in the discord also
Maybe incorporated in-game (if deemed appropriate by Labs.)

There shouldn't be too much ways for people to get perma banned in a beta where the purpose is testing and pushing boundaries, banning players for pushing boundaries dis-incentivises the kind of behaviour that benefits the team during the beta phase...

The main Issue needing to be addressed is that some in our community have been concerned that they could get banned for using known bugs before they have been patched which as far as I'm concerned should very obviously not be a ban-able offense since its just players using something currently allowed by the current patch, the game is in a beta state and this is the way bugs are discovered and patched and there will always be some overlap where a bug is known and not yet patched and we should not be punishing or intimidating those using those bugs, the finders and users of these bugs are helping the team improve the game (even if in the short-term some may feel these players are making the game less fun/interesting.)

Players who learn of bugs and then choose to use them should be free to do so until the bug is patched.

Tournament organisers can (and in my opinion should) ban the use of known bugs during their tournament if they wish, this is their choice, hopefully making explicit the specific bugs they're aware of that they're banning and that's fine, but its up to tournament organisers and illuvium should never be banning anyone for bug abusing, they should just fix the bug and accept and even appreciate it happened and move on.

To be clear, I'm not calling for anyone to define what is and isn't ban-able except for Labs, I'm just calling for Lab's to themselves make clear what is and isn't ban-able.

[sacred coral]

People have been banned from playing the game?

[grand plinth]

It is an interesting topic, looking at things like leaderboard rewards, we´d certainly want clarified rules.
If we want to compare to TFT like we often do, many known/unknown bugs are in that game and as long as players don´t have to do unnormal interactions Riot doesn´t care, if you need to do severe unnormal things, I believe they do ban people.
e.g. people got banned for abusing below bug in TFT, that required you to do interactions you´d never do playing without the intent to abuse it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBeTh4ue2AQ
An equivalent to it in Illuvium would be dragging your 0 cost weapon onto ranger during fight and it healing the ranger to full every time.

I think having clarified rules would help the discord community as well, as then the difference in opinion what is fine and isn´t fine in the current state of the game wouldn´t lead to people "insulting/defaming" others anymore with words like cheater/bug abuser.

[cyan violet]

Seems unlikely. Probably just people experiencing account problems due to bugs

[broken rose]

I do not believe there have been players already banned, but there has heen some telling others they may be banned if they continue abusing x bugs (which is just their opinion) and the purpose of this proposal is to more just formalise how someone could be banned and make clear the terms under which one could be banned so all are aware when undertaking ban-able actions so that there is clarity

[broken rose]

appeciate your response Viper, well thought out and certainly needs to be considered especially as u point out since leaderboard rewards are coming

the main purpose of this proposal is to have ban-able offenses clearly articulated so that players are aware of where the boundaries are and what is and isn't allowed allowing gameplay to continue without fear of banning (as clarity of boundaries allows)

This proposal is defo in a "rough" state currently and am certainly open to editing and improving it into a more formal and finished state, help and feedback appreciated

[broken rose]

💯

[torn crystal]

I'm into it, but only if it's called the "Well that's just your opinion, man" Act of 2024.

In seriousness though, I'm not aware of anyone being banned thus far, and would definitely rather leave it up to Labs to determine what offences are bannable, as they have access to more information and tools to make these kinds of determinations, including access to bug reports and insight into player behavior.

Tournaments should be (and are already) able to set their own custom rules, if there's some bug or exploit that hasn't been patched prior to that tournament taking place.

[broken rose]

To be clear, I'm not calling for anyone to define what is and isn't ban-able except for Labs, I'm just calling for Lab's to themselves make clear what is and isn't ban-able

[sacred coral]

It's a beta, we are looking for bugs. I would be extremely surprised anything gets you banned.
You should get rewarded instead of getting banned 😅

[broken rose]

as it is imo not currently clear and as @grand plinth points out Leaderboard Rewards are inbound and imho for LR's to be instantiated rules should be set clearly for what is and isn't allowed

This may concern and interest @quartz kite @jovial laurel @sour vector etc.

[grand plinth]

I agree this is a Labs Topic overall.

[broken rose]

Agree tbh, just should be publicly clarified if the case is "bug abusing is totally allowed in Arena play since it brings bugs to our attention during Beta Play" to at minimum prevent people from bullying those who are abusing known bugs when them doing so actually brings the issue to the teams attention (especially if a bug has clear competitive implications)

and then outside of that Tourney Hosts can disallow if they wish (or not) up to them...

[broken rose]

💯 agree

[worthy shard]

u can heal ur ranger during fight? lmao wot

[worthy shard]

I will tell u rn its a logistical nightmare for hosts. Plus u cant retroactively screenshot an act like this most of the time

[broken rose]

I mean whether tourney organisers do or dont ban different types of bug abuse and whether or not they can or cant realistically impose such a restriction is outside the scope of what this feedback is on

But yh i bet it is a nightmare to impose especially w something like the act of removing and replaying a unit in same place (easier to enforce the ban of specific cards tho)

[worthy shard]

I know its outside the scope 😛 Just telling u that I wont enforce it unless its easy. Now u know what I would do as one of the organisers 😛

[broken rose]

Cant fault u there, i’d do the same if i was a tourney host

[grand plinth]

No, but that would be the equivalent of what was a recent thing in TFT that got people abusing it in high elo banned

[leaden birch]

Thanks for bringing this uo @broken rose I agree with Blickter it should be ILV labs call on what is banned.
Definitely agree clear rules will be needed yet I imagine they will have to be fairly broad as the bugs change?

Considering money will be involved and the leaderboard rewards, I would definitely be in favour of banning players.
In my mind it would have to be clear they are abusing the system.
Maybe there are time outs or something. Then a perma ban for repeat offenders.

If you know you are 'gaming' the system then in my mind you re effectively cheating, unless it's something everyone can do.
Like animation cancelling on other games I've played.

As it stands currently I don't believe it's important. Yet will be very important once everything is connected and leaderboards are active.

This also stands for zero and overworld. I've heard of some interesting exploits in overworld that would give players with the knowledge of it a clear advantage over others not abusing the exploit.

[brittle sphinx]

Instead of banning, create rewards to those who find and record new bugs, what about abuse to get a rating, there should be rules if u want to reward top players, otherwise some1 will find and abuse new bugs to get top1 and get reward for that? Xd

[jovial laurel]

Not reporting bugs, and deliberately abusing said bugs for your own gain = Ban.
Abusing bug, but them being reported = Fine.

Its a beta, we know bugs will exist.

We want to ensure that we fix these bugs, so we need players to report

and don't want to encourage secret abuse

[indigo bramble]

@broken rose solid topic to bring up.

@jovial laurel sounds good to me, but how will this be enforced/tracked?

When a bug is discovered will it be announced somewhere so there is no competitive advantage to the players who do not know of it.

How can we report violations? What if they are using and didn't know?

My only fear is shadow bans that are unsubstantiated. probably highly unlikely and uncommon.