#Consider 4 v All Instead of 1 v 1

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

terse thorn
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I'm sure the devs have already thought deeply on this and I think the game is amazing as is, and for sure does not "need" this change, but I thought I would propose this change and see what people think.

The Change:

  • Enter the game with 4 other players (instead of 1v1)
  • Same health bars, board, team builder and mechanics
  • Each round you verse a different player, doing or taking damage from that player
  • Once you reach zero HP you are out, either placing 1st-4th (1st and 2nd generally gaining rating, while 3rd and 4th lose rating)
  • You can view the other players boards/teams just like you can currently

The Reason:

  • Reduce the feeling / likehood that you enter a game feeling like your team auto loses the match up
  • You may not counter a certain player but they can still lose significant HP to a different player that may counter them
  • More chances to win against unfavourable match ups given they are also trying to set themselves up for other players they may verse the next round
  • The meta will be far less clear and there will be way more room for balancing errors
  • Better for casual players (potentially) while still being just as competitive (maybe more so)
  • Once the game moves to only being able to play your NFTs, this change will significantly reduce the feeling of having no chance against someone with better illuvials (4 players means there is still a path to get top 2)

For those that aren't aware, this is similar to how most autobattlers work (Team Fight Tactics for example, 8 players per match). Illuvium arena will still have major differences to those games (eg bringing your own team, pre-built)(1000x better artwork) but this change may also make the game more familiar to that audience.

I don't know much about how hard a change like this would be to make but I feel like the biggest hurdle would be adding the extra clutter of other players to the user interface.

grizzled wolf
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I agree.
One-on-one is not in vogue worldwide.
Team games are the mainstream.

heady harbor
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round robin?
the team originally wanted to be vastly different than TFT, e.g. minimum RNG and 1v1
i noticed that part of the community want us to be more like TFT.
the difference is TFT players are used to be playing for free.

terse thorn
# heady harbor round robin? the team originally wanted to be vastly different than TFT, e.g. mi...

Yea round robin style. I think it is still very different even if it went to round robin. I think pre-built teams are the biggest point of difference.

I like the idea of minimum RNG and 1v1 but I'm just curious on the teams perspective on the reality of it in regards to player reactions to the game so far. One thing the game has made me realise is how much I was underestimating RNG as a good game design.

To be clear though, I think the game is amazing as is and I think the devs know best, just wanted to put this one out there.

heady harbor
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tbh i dont like auto chess, but i like TFT and magic chess way better than the current arena. especially, magic chess because it's mobile and their onboarding is so easy.

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my take on any games, do what the market wants if you want revenue

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that's advantage of being a DAO, we can pivot

still sable
rancid spruce
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I won't discuss the idea itself, let's just put in the issue we have here:

Such a proposal and complete redesign would delay for at least 6 months (my personal estimation). We need solutions closer from the model they proposed if we want it to have any chance to be accepted.

All i'm gonna say is I agree with you in the intent and on the fact the game needs more variance. I just personnally think that we should be aiming for simpler options that require less dev-work so that we can get as many iterations as possible and/or revert if it doesn't work.

Regardless of my opinion on this proposal, thank you for your feedback and for trying to improve the game! Keep the ideas coming, we need them!

terse thorn
terse thorn
still sable
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Ah man. If you dont know then you dont understand the game very well

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No worries ill let other educate

terse thorn
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well I think i know but rather clarify we are talking about the same thing. I think it dampens the flaw to the point it is no longer a big issue. Or one way to anyway.

heady harbor
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just say it lol

still sable
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I can draw how to play the game on a posterboard and give it to a 5 year old and he'll get to a pretty high rank

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Give that poster board to someone thats actually talented and he'll be top 5

rancid spruce
# terse thorn yea if its too much back end stuff to change than I wouldnt want it considered. ...

while i don't agree with how SJUD said it... just 4v4 round robin won't change anything on how we feel about the game.

He's on point on the 5yo posterboard though.

and about dev time... they need an entire revamp of the battle engine. proper servers to support for 4 players (right now we are connecting in P2P and only connect to server when it loads our decks/name/pfp) , include scouting and navigation between other boards and i won't even talk about the balance issues this brings. Again appreciate you coming with ideas to improve the game and please keep them coming! This one is just not the one imo.

still sable
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Yup, I wont claim to ever word my ideas correctly

terse thorn
still sable
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I guess i was just bad at autochess then

terse thorn
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but looks like you are saying you can play the exact same way each round if you have 3 different teams to face?

still sable
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Yes the teams dont matter. I'll play exactly the same way every time because I know how to optimize mastery points, team comps, and positioning

rancid spruce
terse thorn
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doing that with illuvium will end you in mid ranking too, with the round robin format

still sable
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You think that but its not true

terse thorn
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also sound like you are simply against the pre-built teams or do you have a different solution? I'm not saying mine solves your issue completely but it does give enough variance where it isnt as obvious while still maintaining the uniquness of pre-built teams

still sable
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My view is very simple on the matter. It's not a good game, and I'm also one of the top 1-3 players in the world. So I'm not salty, I'm just saying how it is
your solution doesnt change the game

rancid spruce
still sable
rancid spruce
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btw i agree we should keep some of what makes Illuvium a unique game. we really don't want to make just a TFT or just an HS clone. yet the way i see it your proposal actually leads to that.

Lets say we implement it and people still say it sucks and that there's no real decision making. We can't just decide to revert 6 months of dev-work, that's too expensive so What will we do? we will add variance/RNG of some kind on top of the 4v4 round robin. And suddenly you have a 4v4 autobattler with RNG elements where skill also depends on how you adapt to that RNG. And TFT is a 8v8 autobattler with RNG elements where skill is how you adapt to RNG.

It's obviously a caricature but you see my point.
I'd rather explore the other ideas that keep the game 1v1 first personnally, rather than engage into a complete revamp that could even not change anything and lead to the same decisions we could've taken now.

terse thorn
terse thorn
still sable
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I'm not a ladder smurf warrior. I play tourneys , I do well, and people pay me for my expertise

rancid spruce
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Also the way i see it with round robin you just take the exact same "decisions" than we do now. Just more often. So it doesn't really change skill expression.
While proposals like @tawdry anvil of variable MP income or other variance based decisions lead to the player having to take different decisions from a game to another. rewarding the ability to think on the fly rather than the ability to learn a flowchart we have now.

heady harbor
still sable
# heady harbor wen SJUD | Illuvium

I could make make clickbait garbage screenshots and post them to youtube too. Unfortunately I have friends and a social life so choose not to

rancid spruce
still sable
rancid spruce
still sable
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They aren't

heady harbor
terse thorn
still sable
rancid spruce
terse thorn
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ive never done one (times dont work)

still sable
heady harbor
still sable
rancid spruce
still sable
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You think im gonna let this loser talk down to me?

terse thorn
heady harbor
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ok lets settle this with pvp guys

still sable
rancid spruce
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I mean i get that you don't like the comment but if we want this discussion to be any close from productive you guys need to chill out and go back down a bit. You are a top tournament player, Web3GamingTV is top1 leaderboard... why don't we just assume everyone in this chat is good enough to be worth listening? (except jag, sorry mate <3)

heady harbor
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i dont mind i just want to wager

still sable
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I dont do it in real life and i wont do it here.

terse thorn
# still sable

you literally started any of the talking. Clearly directed at me for no reason other than im rank 1 on ladder. Never have I claimed anything other than "rank 1" in a thumbnail

rancid spruce
still sable
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You want to be a clickbait warrior and thats fine. Then get ready to be called out for it. Especially when you can't back it up in tourneys.

terse thorn
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do you watch any of them? im literally the most chilled humble guy. The thumbnails and literally for the algo

rancid spruce
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Can i suggest you guys settle this in private at least? if a mod runs into this discussion you might both end up timed out and that would suck for both of you.

heady harbor
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tbf he didnt do the wide-mouth thumbnails

still sable
terse thorn
terse thorn
still sable
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I was ready to reply and let it go @rancid spruce , but this guy just doesnt know who i am

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I was rank 1 on ladder btw. Way before you were

terse thorn
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mate we have all been top of competitive in many other games doesnt make any of us better than others

rancid spruce
terse thorn
still sable
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No in PvP.

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Also sorry getting 2nd to my buddy in the largest tourney in Illuviums history isnt great. What have you gotten?

terse thorn
still sable
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Bye 🙂

terse thorn
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you are the one that cares about any of this lol. Dont come at me for no reason other than im rank 1 on ladder (which I have never said means anything) and trying to promote the game on youtube.

And yes there is an argument like I said before that getting rank 1 is way harder than winning a few rounds in a tourney that literally anyone can sign up for

still sable
tawdry anvil
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Thanks for the tag Zep.

To this Idea, we have spoken about in before and I think there is potential in the idea. It may draw more players into the game, just because of similarity and it can be fun to have a new opponent each round.

However, I'm still optimistic Illuvium can make a 1v1 game that can truly shine though. I'm not sure I want to move fully away from it yet. I would like to try making it less predictable and planned by other mechanics first and if we are still not feeling/seeing better retention then we start thinking about bigger changes like this.

@still sable please don't antagonize him. I think we all know he has the best competitive content in the space. And he doesn't brag nearly as much as many of us.

still sable
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I rest my case

Screenshot_3.png
rancid spruce
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but that's a good thing T_T it helps people improve and keeping interest in the game...

terse thorn
still sable
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I dont know. Anything targetted towards 10 year olds is not really gonna get me going. Do what you gotta do though
I look forward to what you do in the competitive space

rancid spruce
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now that's cool you both chill and we move on with the topic ❤️

terse thorn
manic widget
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@still sable you may be one of the top players atm but you shouldn't forget there's always some1 better than us in this world. All this ego talk just makes you look bad imo.
I like your videos @terse thorn keep them rollin 🔥
The more Illuvium content creators we have the better.

neon spear
# terse thorn I'm sure the devs have already thought deeply on this and I think the game is am...

I'd wait to have the game properly balanced with all characters before we start implementing a major change like this, and when it does, if it's still an issue I don't see any reason why a game mode similar to tft couldn't also work or solve various problems.

As for Sjud, just try to ignore him, every time you respond it keeps him away from his friends who idolise his presence and they don't deserve that.

still sable
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Maybe you should pay a little more attention to me and the game would be a bit better 😉

neon spear
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You're smarter than Aaron and Ben, combined, so it really confuses me as to why we haven't gotten ridden of the entire team and put you in charge

still sable
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I mean that's a good point. Thanks for recognizing it

neon spear
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If only you weren't so busy socialisin and killing it in all other aspects of life, maybe...no, I'm sure of it, you would have created the number 1 gaming studio on earth by now

still sable
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You're so complimentary today. I love it Atlas_Love

neon spear
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What a triumph for us.
We have the greatest human ever, with the slickest abs and a network of unfathomably powerful friends.
Against all logic and sense, he remain here, in our shitty little ILV community, when he could be shining a light of hope our galaxy so desperately needs.

Thank you, thank you for your greatness

still sable
neon spear
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I know you can read my mind, but I feel it needed to be said regardless

mortal oriole
kindred eagle
still sable
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Me only

heady harbor
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no love for Jag?
ill come back later

covert heart
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I just want to add to the "more like TFT vs less like TFT" discussion. It's OK to have 2 game modes and people can play whatever they want. Downside is it's harder to maintain multiple modes. In time we can even attempt 2v2 or other kind of game modes. IMHO having different ways to play the game is fundamental.

rancid spruce