#Game language/terminology

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

dusk steppe
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So let's say you are a new player who decides to try out this good looking PVP game everyone is talking about. It looks beautiful and fun so you decide to read the rules. It looks a little complex so you start with a guide on all the different symbols and definitions.

And then, you come across this: Resolve - Reduces a discrete amount of pre-mitigation physical damage per effect package.

You probably have 2 immediate questions. What is pre-mitigation damage and what is an effect package. You Google "pre mitigation meaning" and you are presented with this: "Pre-mitigation: current risk exposure assuming that the risk is accepted with no specific actions in response."

At this point, you might be tempted to just give up, and not even get to "effect package"...

I never played autobattlers before, so this might be common slang used there, I don't know. But is this really our best attempt to explain these stats to everyone else? Or could the same things be said in simpler English that most people can actually understand?

ebon iris
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I went off tangent.

A FAQ would help solve this. I too dont completely understand the terminologies

unique hemlock
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Yeah I feel like same way. Very overwhelming with all the names for people new to the genre.

Maybe an option to click keywords to visit some sort of index?

shell flare
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Absolutely agree. The terms must easier to understand for the average gamer. I am an avid autobattler player and this meaning is not immediately clear to me, aside from making that illuvial more tanky.

dusk steppe
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I would respectfully ask the team to fix this. I am a fanboy and I gave up my first attempt of reading through the deck builder guide due to frustration. Never even get to the playing part. Yes, I will go back and grind my way through it but not everyone will who has the same experience.

When we are putting so much effort into polishing the game I feel like this is a friction point that is very easy to fix. A beginners guide is supposed to leave readers enlightened and excited to jump into play, not feeling frustrated. One person with ChatGPT could rephrase this in a couple of hours and update the document. (or add an FAQ or clickable keywords, as was suggested)

dusk steppe
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Game language/terminology

clear raft
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We will have our own explainers, FAQ's, glossary, etc, and we will make information available to third party sites.

It also needs to be understood that the underlying model of Arena is far more complex than something like TFT. There are not just more stats, there are more layers of resolution and EVERY special effect and ability is defined in the model (rather than being its own special piece of custom behavior).

The idea has always been what Aaron calls 'Simplexity'. You can understand the basics easily ("rogues jump to backline") but the depth underlying those basics is very deep.

A significant amount of effort has been put in to defining the terminology to ensure it is accurate and aligned with the underlying code model. The words used here are the only way to TRULY understand exactly what is happening in the underlying model. Its effectively the code written in a (somewhat) human readable form. UPDATE: But as per Aarons comment below this nuanced detail isn't something we need to make explicit to players.

However, I also do agree that this complexity is too overwhelming. I was heavily involved in original Arena design and discussions but then took a pretty big break from Arena design and play, and I was very lost when I came back to it.

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One concern: As soon as you rephrase you lose information, what information is acceptable to lose needs very careful thought. So we can't just throw it at ChatGPT.

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In short agree its something that needs to be solved, but its not a trivial thing to solve.

restive seal
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What about an official Web based Wiki with deep explenations of everything?
I guess this stuff is already written down anywhere anyways.

clear raft
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The full domain model might be really useful for the competitive players (and those striving to be such), but 500 pages of documentation won't help a noob feel comfortable 🙂

restive seal
clear raft
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Right but I think the main problem to address is the gap between:

Noob <------------------------------------------------------> Mastery

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  • @tacit chasm + @opaque sphinx
tacit chasm
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There is more nuance than that but customers don’t need to know.

These have just been taking from the internal docs where everything needs to be precise.

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We should fix that.

clear raft
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Cool, if that nuance doesn't need to be captured in customer facing words that's even better.

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(Note: Edited some of my post aboves to help avoid confusion)

ebon iris
humble talon
pseudo pond
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There is a methodology in ux design called "progressive disclosure" that basically hides complexity until it's necessary or requested.

Could the first info the n00b gets is "Increases Durability" with a "learn more link"

This takes you to the math and reveals a bit of the underlying code in human readable language.

opaque sphinx
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Just for context where are players seeing this hyper detailed information? If it's on a fan site rather than officially in game there is a reason for that.

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We haven't yet implemented the tooltip overhaul so this is something that is addressed by that!

dusk steppe
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I appreaciate everyone jumping in here 🙏

@opaque sphinx this is from the official team builder guide https://illuvium.io/news/illuvium-arena-team-builder-guide A few similarly confusing definitions (for me) were Grit and Attack damage (difference between Pure attack damage vs Physical/Energy attack damage)

@clear raft I was hoping for something similar to what Aaron suggested, a simple definition that explains to me (or any noob) what that ability does in an easy-to-understand form. This info is enough for me to better judge the role of that unit in my team composition, and to quickly determine how good are the stats of an illuvial when I'm seeing one on the marketplace.

I really like the idea of presenting this info in 2 tiers for readers. The simple definition followed by a link to the full, advanced definition. This gives the basic info to new players quickly but also lets them know that there is an additional level of complexity to the game. Most new players will not get there but for some, who appreciates deep strategy, this will act as an additional hook, letting them know that this game is not only awesome-looking but it's worth their time to take it seriously.

Just for reference, I did ask ChatGPT to explain pre-mitigation damage in gaming terminology to me and this is what it came back with: "Pre-mitigation damage refers to the amount of damage dealt by an attack or ability before any reductions are applied. This includes reductions such as armor, shields, damage resistance, or any other form of damage mitigation present in the game. Essentially, it's the "raw" damage figure that gets calculated first, before the game applies any modifiers based on the defending character's stats or abilities." I think it explained it well.

I asked for a shorter version, here it is: "Resolve reduces a set amount of the initial, unmodified physical damage for each separate attack or ability before any defensive reductions like armor are applied.

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clear raft
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@dusk steppe to be clear I'm not saying ChatGPT can't define some concepts, Aaron and Ben are well versed in TFT so they have tended towards words and usage patterns aligned with that game (which ChatGPT also understands). But other terms like 'effect packages' are very special terms we made up to describe our very unique game model.

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The problem with ChatGPT is it will confidently tell you an answer even if it is wrong 🙂

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In any case its moot:

  1. Aaron and game design team already have friendly text planned, and most cases written.
  2. We also do already have a normal/advanced mode UI toggle.

Basically what you want is aready planned, and if not available PB3 day 1, it won't be far away.