Problems with the current illuvitars and ideas about them

[urban sparrow]

Posted for @undone imp

It has been sold up to WAVE2, but I don't think the illuvitars are doing well
Sorting out the current problems

1. Small user base
2. The more you buy, the more you lose.
3. Bonding reduces value.
4. too many minted compared to user base
5. newcomers cannot expect gaming rewards.
6. alpha and normal disks, and standard and mega disks, which are difficult for newcomers to understand.
7. The value of alpha illuvitars does not increase because of normal illuvitars.
8. No relation to the main game, so no need to purchase.
9. many negative opinions about all NFTs
   10.There are no other games using illuvitars.

I think that as it is now, even if the user base grows, sales may increase a little, but if the supply greatly exceeds the demand, the value of the iluvitars will not increase.
And if the more you buy, the more you lose, users will eventually stop buying.
And I am concerned about the negative impact on illuvium's reputation.

One of the causes of money being wasted is accessory bonding.
It's really bad that they are bonding the value down for the ranking.
I'm sure everyone on the team doesn't want users to waste money.
.
My ideas for increasing the value of the illuvitars are
1.Eliminate accessories
・No need to ruin a great design with accessories!
As it is now, there are all pink sunglasses and angel rings, which are really not good!

2.Set disk to Alpha Mega disk only.
・Eliminating the normal disk prevents a large number of cheap illuvitars from being minted.
・Making it easier for newcomers to understand by having only Alpha Mega
・If the same Rhamphyre is standard and mega, the mega one is probably more valuable.

For example
Sell 50,000 Alpha Mega disks for 50-75$ for a period of 3 months
If all 50,000 disks are sold for 50$, WAVE 1-4 will be 10,000,000$
If all 50,000 disks are sold for 75$, WAVE 1-4 will be 15,000,000$
During there is not enough money to fund the development, the safety pool limit will be increased to $10m, which will clear the issue of development funding.
In the future, once DAO generates enough revenue, it will be returned to 5m$
If Revdis can't be expected, there is a concern that stakers will sell ILV, but if DAO can generate enough revenue from illuvitars, the price of ILV will stabilize!

I think it will be difficult to sell all 50,000 disks in the beginning, but I think we will be able to sell all the disks as our user base increases.
If 50,000 disks are sold out in 2 to 3 days in the future, the value of unopened disks should be traded at 50 to 75$ or more.
I think some people buy disks for future investment.

※The important thing is that even if 50,000 discs sell out quickly, we will not raise the price or increase the number of discs.
If you do that, you'll lose credibility
Less is more to increase the value of illuvitars
You can also increase the revenue of DAO by increasing the sales period to 2 months, 6 times a year.
.
As it is now, many people will lose money, and millions of worthless illuvitars will be minted, and tens of millions of accessories will be minted that will never be used at all.
I think that would be a loss for illuvium.

I believe that by limiting the number to 50,000 Mega disks, that would be increase the value of illuvitars in the future.
And it will be in the interest of illuvium.
Imagine Rhamphyre and rare illuvitars trading at high prices as the user base grows.
Sales are important, but it is also very important to improve the brand image.
Is it good for illuvium that a large amount of illuvitars and accessories under 1$ are minted?
I think this idea will raise the price of illuvitars and the brand image of illuvium.

Contd' @undone imp
Disadvantage
1.I can understand the objections of those who have purchased Wave1-2. This idea does not take into account the loss of those who purchased Wave1-2
Especially those who purchased normal discs and many accessories will suffer a big loss.
I think the only people who might be saved by this idea are those who have purchased Alpha Mega disks and have not bonded them.
But the normal disks are minted in large quantities, so I don't know if there will ever fully return to value.

2.The biggest problem is whether those who lost money will continue to buy, I don't know either.
I think we should listen carefully to the opinions of those who purchased in large quantities.
Their opinion is very important when newcomers are not expected to buy for a while!
.
If this idea is possible, I would like you to do the following at the same time.
1.Eliminate game rewards
・Game rewards should be given when a game using illuvitars is created.
Battle in the Beyond, etc. would be fine.
2.Album improvements
・Can be sorted by rarity
・Allow you to create your own favorites list so that you can show them to others.
・Allow users to be able to see listings that they have for sale, and to purchase them from the album.
3.Improved LeadersBoard
4.When you purchase disks and complete a quest, you will receive a limited NFT.
・Emote, BattelBoard Skin, etc. will be quests that can be completed not only in that wave but in all future waves.
By doing so, even people without funds can eventually receive NFTs by purchasing them little by little.
You need to be able to see how many disks you have bought on your ID or album.
※Discs purchased in the marketplace will not be given the NFT of the quest, so you can sell more Mega disks faster!
5.it would be nice if there was a way to unbond for those who purchased wave1-2
・That way, you can attach or remove existing accessories and use your favorite original illuvitars as your avatar.
Eliminate accessory magnification
If you want to add more accessories, you can sell them for 5$ in the marketplace!

I believe that in order for illuvium to become a AAA game, we need to take care of brand image as well!
Taking money from whales is not that.

I understand there is a lot of opposition to this idea.
There are a lot of pain involved when making a big change, but the sooner you make a change, the less pain you will have.
I want illuvium to be successful and this is one idea.
.
※The numbers given in the example can be changed.
It doesn't matter if the Mega disk is $100 or 60,000 disks.
However, I think it's important that once you've made a decision, you don't change it again.
I don't think we need to think about selling everything from the beginning, this will be resolved with time.

Thank for reading!

[undone imp]

Hi @paper snow
As usual, my ideas get no comments at all! hahaha🤣
You are the only council member I know, so I'd like to hear your opinion.

1. How can we increase the value of illuvitars?
   I don't think the value of illuvitars will increase if it stays as it is now.
   The problem with NFTs is that they have no value as assets if there are no buyers.
   ILV can be sold, but NFTs cannot.

2. Do you have the following data?
   ・Number of addresses that purchased Wave1 and did not purchase Wave2
   ・Number of addresses that purchased WAVE2 only (number of completely new users)
   ・Average purchase amount or total purchase amount from 1st to 100th place
   If you know this, I think you can predict how many people will purchase WAVE3.

WAVE3 has a free bonus disc for purchasing WAVE2, so the value will be about -10-20% of the value of the disc, so new users probably won't be able to expect it
If you are going to reward quests, it would be better to limit the rewards to the original NFT
.

3. I don't think the current game rewards will be a big battle between whales because you only have to keep your own ranking.
   I think this is a problem we knew from WAVE1.
   If you buy high % accessories and bond one of each of them, you can keep that ranking for a long time without buying any more disks!
   And it keeps new users away.
   Game rewards are limited to games like Battle in the Beyond or
   If you make it a one-time game reward after the end of each wave instead of the total ranking, you may be able to get new whales.
   I wrote an idea about game rewards 5 months ago
   https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1020759212172775464/threads/1110374901581365409
   Like Battle in the Beyond, you can't expect to increase sales unless you make it so that you have to buy the disks to get the reward.

4. I'm sure my idea will never be adopted.
   We can never make any changes here, especially since Wave3 sells with the promise of a free disks.
   For example, do you think it's possible to set WAVE1-4 as Beyond 1, end it there, and start a new Beyond 2? Beyond 2 will be released as a separate.
   If you ignore sales, WAVE3 can start immediately after WAVE2.
   I think Beyond 2 can be released as something better after securing the PVP user base.（My idea doesn't matter, anything better than what we have now is acceptable.）
   I think the ultimate goal of many Web3 users is to invest and earn money, illuvitars are not for Web2 users.
   Alpha needs to provide value.

Thank you.

[paper snow]

Give me a couple days. I'll be back from visiting your beautiful country and I can provide a proper ans well thought out response, ser 🎌

[torpid dragon]

While I think this idea could work, I think the problem of loss of value can be solved easier. I think Aaron brought this up before but there just needs to be a system implemented where you can burn illuvitars for “dust” or whatever. The dust can be brought into overworld to assist in crafting items, creating skins, extra energy on your runs etc. Now people with a lot of T0 and accessory garbage can actually feel a reward on their investment. Includes wave 1 and 2 investors while not revamping the whole system.

[undone imp]

Yeah I think the "dust" idea is very good!
I've posted similar ideas before.
#1111072532280377406 message
I think this idea would work very well to give existing users something to do!
I don't think it's enough a little to attract new users or increase the value of rare illuvitars and alphas.
I support the idea of ​​“dust”

I really like TOYOTA's "KAIZEN" (continuous improvement).
I hope we can come up with some good ideas and create something good!
I try not to think I am 100% right, it is very important to listen to others.
And from those ideas, we will come up with new ideas and KAIZEN.
I will support anything that makes illuvium better.

[undone imp]

I asked @paper snow because I personally know him from helping him translate his website.
I trust him very much.
Especially his opinions are often very helpful!
I should have DM'd you personally, but there was IMC election and I wanted to give you a little test.
Sorry about that hahaha🤣

In my opinion PVP and open beta all take precedence!
If changes to illuvitars take a lot of resources, all of them will be postponed.
I don't care if WAVE3 is released two years later, or I think it's okay to release WAVE4 first and then release Beyond 2 two years later.
I 100% agree with the opinion that it is against because it takes a lot of resources.
If we can get more users through PVP, it might do some good for the illuvitars.
But if the balance between supply and demand remains as it is now, I don't know if an increase in sales will increase the value of the illuvitars.

[carmine vine]

I agree on parts of it, but I don't see myself as the target for illuvitars so I prefer to stay out of the details of the discussion in particular, that said. Imo in general I see that the purpose of this product is to collect, not to get value over time. So maybe in years from now it gets value. But imo its not the main purpose. Like albums in real life.

[undone imp]

Yeah, it could work if more people are willing to buy them as collections.
We need some whales to buy them with big money and I would expect investors too.

[undone imp]

If you search for illuvitars' highest power of 6000+, you will get results like this
Is it okay to leave it as is?
I'm curious what users who know nothing about this will think of these when they see them.
If you could reduce the percentage of accessories to 0, I think it would make illuvitars more unique.
Is it just me, are there look like different kind of Elton John?

[carmine vine]

totally agree, for me if the accessories were really necessary to customize illuvitars, I would have not tiered them, and instead would have them have their own multiplier so we would have some variety of them at top tiers.

[grand turtle]

Its been a little while since I have been around Illuvium as I like to be a bystander and see ecosystems flourish and grow on their own, however I would like to chime in. I am an avid gamer who spends an average of 8 hours a day playing video games or tcgs competitively and, as a fan of Illuvium, am very disappointed with illuvitars altogether. It feels disenginuous to call them a money grab but they are a money grab. I tuned out about the time these were announced and look back every now and then to see if things have gotten better because there is literally no reason to have created these unless the team needed additional funding.
The only saving grace for illuvitars is to dramatically change the prospect of usecase for them as a strategy based game with dynamic gameplay of itself or attribute them to an affinity system within the primary game, however the latter is just creating a compounding issue of barrier of entry to users.
I am happy to be wrong but everything ive seen has been quite disheartening and am hoping to see some 2024 turn around for Illuvium.

Edit: I really pride myself on giving actionable and constructive feedback and found it incredibly difficult to post this and have already almost deleted it multiple times lol.

[torpid dragon]

Thanks @grand turtle. Yea on one hand it can feel like a cash grab. But it’s also cool unique art. Virtual cards that can be used as customisable PFPs. I think the timing was off and that’s what’s causing the disconnect. I think that when the games are out and people have decks the illuvitar PFPs will be cool. When ILV has more brand recognition people will want to collect these illuvitars because that’s what people do. I’m personally all for Illuvitars I just think the leaderboard is kind of stupid. I guess some people want to pay to win and that’s fine. I’m looking forward to a burning mechanic to reward buyers and to make illuvitars in general more rare and desirable as collectibles

[grand turtle]

I see your point and do agree that it could be cooler to have them once the game has been out for 6mo-1yr to establish a deeper connection to the units you care about as a fun little "sticker game" which would likely be pull through revenue instead of their original price point. I am likely alone in the thought process that I think it was a waste of time and effort and would have rather seen it dumped into the core gameplay

[undone imp]

I think any feedback is important.
I think some of them may give you some hints.

Looking back at January, when the release of illuvitars was announced.
FTX went bankrupt and the entire crypto industry were severely damaged.
DAO had limited operating funds and could never have sold the ILV at that point.
Team removed SLP and converts ETH to USDC at January lows
Looking back now, I can see that that decision was wrong, but considering the circumstances at the time, I think it was right.
If you know that the OB release will be delayed, and you have some other way to generate revenue, it would be a plus for the DAO to do so.
I think it was the right thing to release illuvitars for that reason.
In fact, with WAVE1, we were able to earn 3.5m$ and consume a lot of sILV2.
It is true that this resulted in a loss to the purchaser.
And we knew that wasn't sustainable in Wave1, so Wave 2 was to adjust the price.
I don't think that's going to work as far as Wave2 results are concerned.
I believe that if illuvitars can provide something that satisfies users, it will continue to contribute greatly as part of DAO's revenue.
To do so, we need to gather a lot of feedback and further KAIZEN!
I posted this idea because I think increasing the value of the iluvitars is necessary for that!
I don't know what form it will take, but I believe that IMC and the team will come up with a better way and provide something even better than what we have now.
I think it's very good that we can look forward to 2024, because if it had been any other project, we wouldn't have been able to count on that either.

It's impossible to do everything right, I make mistakes often.
A lot has happened in the crypto industry as a whole in the last two years alone, and from the team's point of view, they are going through a really tough time!
I think everyone knows that the whole team is working hard.

PVP will be released soon, so let's hope for that!🤣

[compact hare]

For some reason your proposal energised me to join the conversation. there is a lot in this. I tried to consider your points and break them down as I see them. So will make separate subsequent posts incase anyone wants to isolate a part for comment. But I respect your brain on this one @undone imp . Forgive me if I butcher your intent in these groupings.

User Base and Value:

1. I see your point. We are out there expecting the big vision to be completed in the market and it is not. Eye are bigger than the stomach to say.
2. The over supply is a concern of mine also. I thought wave 1 was the only opportunity for T0 so I stacked up and am holding a losing bag. I feel this over saturates the supply of illuvitars also. The beauty about being early is to cause this limited supply for the benefit of early adopters.
3. When I saw T0 were also in wave 2 I have withheld from my involvement in this wave for exactly your point to hesitancy. But we are early and are teething these things so some grace needs to be allowed for.
4. Your comments about alphas to be is rather on the money. Make it isolated to mega disks would allow for more prestige and lower the dominant supply of T0. Although when populations do come, maybe they will eat up these cheaper options?
5. The separation of illuvitars from the entire ecosystem except for IMX and RevDis comes across as a tacky web3 play with a great product. But this is an opportunity IMO. Turning these into a TCG is a mistake and further silos illuvitars from the eco system and then also the TSG. No doubt many conversations can be had over this. For me I feel Illuvitars being stored in an album should be treated similar to blueprints where the ingame appearance of assets can be modified to the base games illuvitars or cards for TCG in a way to display that there is an extra value to these. This then causes circular value. Maybe they cause VFX or a illuvitar designated emote etc….

Bonding and Accessories:

1. The market has decided that bonded illuvitars are less valuable. I am one of these persons who agrees with this sentiment. But it’s a free market and the resale value isn’t the reason people choose to bond accessories. Some are playing the leaderboard “game”. PS I dislike the tacty web3 idea that beyond is a game. Sorry. It’s a pay to win model from now until forever and only those in completely from the beginning have. This is not newcomer friendly and has no other incentive but to bate web3ers.
2. I do not like the idea for eliminating accessories as there are some individuals that might legitimately want a truly individual pfp and I would hate for this feature to be removed. That being said the integration to some iluvitars have not been fully assimilated to look as part of the illuvitar and its design – poor shading etc. If you put a scar on a holo, it just looks like someone smeared poo on its face.
3. Regarding the separate DAO sale of accessories I am appreciative for, I don’t agree with a flat value however a tiered value fixed to the multiplying % could stand to see this work as a form of rails but id like them to be priced appropriately not to exclude the incentive to buy disks.
4. I disagree to the unbonding – to a point. If you were the bondee then I feel this should be allowed. Especially for those going for higher leadership points, or a mistake where a later acquisition of a higher tier accessory may be exchanged but burning the original accessory still.

[tropic talon]

Something about the message triggered the defense bot to block it and put you in timeout. I’m not certain what words it’s worried about. But probably something like “mint” and “now”.

[compact hare]

Thank for getting back to me on being timed out. Ooft not being able to write m1nt or n0w is a tad difficult when this is a big part of the conversation. Does this mean I am off timeout??

[tropic talon]

I removed the timeout.

[tropic talon]

Add me as a friend so we can dm and I could probably post it for you

On behalf of @compact hare

Minting and Disk Types:

1. Yes the amount of illuvitars far outweighs the user base and needs to be curbed and some of your solutions might promote this. Or additional “consumption” of these in albums can be taken better advantage of as I mentioned with VFX, emotes, drone animations etc when you have a completed T0 set of doka/fire or the complete set for example. This reduces supply significantly. Your suggestions and this integration to the game eco system will reduce this supply and may end up being sustainable?? And for this I like the idea of a limited NFT – but I am not sure how this may be governed without spoofing limited nfts on different accounts. So I feel these should be set to the album and only then are eligible for the limited in game/ecosystem value add.
2. I am 100% behind having alpha disks limited to megas only.
3. As for a pricing consistency this IMO should be fixed to the fiat price at the time of purchase but in eth/silv. But playing the market price game can be dangerous and see great losses or exclude the web2 converts to having inflated eth fixed secondary market sales. This deserves further strategic consideration. Because just like ETH gas fees make ETH a bad layer for regular transactions without an L2, setting an ETH price will shout out a palatable barrier for entry.

[old pine]

Okay so I haven't read the entire post let alone the discussion but after reading several paragraphs I am disturbed by this...

Other nft projects offer what u r asking, actually 99% of them. Just because u can't make money on illuvitars doesn't make them useless or bad?

I have nothing else to say but like this way of thinking hurts my soul a bit

[undone imp]

I'm just posting an idea.
I think anything beyond that is up to the team and IMC to think about.
And there was one more idea for illuvitars.
That's an idea from a different point of view.
I wanted the data before posting that so I didn't post that yet
I just want illuvium to succeed.
I'm just posting this because I think I might get better feedback by posting some ideas.
If my idea is not adopted, no problem!

@old pine
I don't often have discussions on Discord.
I am not good at English and need translation software even for simple English!
I have a very hard time looking up words I don't understand that I can't translate and confirming them!
I spend a lot of time on them.
I once spent 3 hours translating youtube of conversation between you and Kieran! hahaha🤣
Maybe my English was bad and that's why you didn't get what I wanted to say.

What I wanted to say is to find the current problem and improve them.
I would like you to collect a lot of feedback and make something even better.
It is your job to be a member of IMC!
I also know that you worked hard with SJUD
And I respect it!

[old pine]

I always want everyone to post ideas of course. I didn't mean to take away from the idea, just that it doesn't align with me personally. I hope there are others that really love the idea and want to take it further if I am wrong

[old pine]

I have enabled a few languages on my channel but if you tell me what language I may be able to add it to the list for closed captions and all that 🙂

[undone imp]

Really?
That would be really great.
You have so many fans in the Japanese community!
Please add Japanese!👍

[old pine]

I'll take your improvements one at a time and discuss my thoughts,

1. Eliminate accessories - Although I admit clean illuvitars are objectively more aesthetic, there's no forced accessories, so I don't see any true gain from removing them. If there was a larger illuvitar collection then maybe it could be justified.

2. Set D1sk to Alpha Mega D1sk only - I agree only 1 offering could work well, its less confusing and easier to understand. I maintain eliminating alphas altogether could have been a great move, but its hard to go back now.

3. I like how you are framing this with total revenue in mind but its easy to forget that Wave 1 did make something like 5-7m. However with sILV2 there was little gain to runway. Once the sILV2 ran out you saw what happened with wave 2 already, I have seen a lot of projects in web 3 not sell out. I will admit if Illuvium was in Open Beta then your numbers here make a lot more sense, but it wouldn't have changed anything for wave 1-2.

4. I refuse to look at D1sks as 'future investments'. You cannot market a product as an investment, because there is really no such thing. You cannot guarantee future gains with any product. D1sks are an asset like everything else, if I buy a tshirt I am not hoping to sell it unopened in 2-3 years. That's how I view Illuvitars, they are toys that are meant to be used and enjoyed as they are. Just because something has the tag 'NFT' doesn't mean it is a great way to make money, it's no way to live life 😦

5. You say millions of worthless Illuvitars are minted? What happens when Illuvitars are used in future products like a CCG. The last thing we want is for 1 player to own every Rhamphyre, that would make for a silly card game meta.

These are just my thoughts, I apologise if I was blunt before but I always appreciate new ideas

[old pine]

Okay that was WAY trickier than I thought it would be. I made an attempt on the Kieran AMA. If you could please watch parts of it and see if it did any good of a job? I will add you and if you ever want Japanese translations for anything I will sort it out the best I can. It is a new skill I will have to learn but once I have figured it out I will try add it to every video

If u add me as a friend then we will be able to discuss it in the future

[undone imp]

Hey Your work is so gooooood!
I could see Japanese hahahaha🤣

I introduced them to the Japanese guild!
Thank you @old pine

[undone imp]

@compact hare
Thank you your feedback!
I respect all feedback opinions.
I think there's some hint in there.
If you want more feedback, I suggest you post it as an idea so we don't waste your feedback.
That way, you might be able to hear the opinions of more people.
There was no problem before, but now when I post a long text, it times out and I could not post any more.
So Rich helped me post this idea.

[compact hare]

Happy to be part of this round table discussion. I feel we all do this for the good of the project

[torpid dragon]

Made this point earlier but I’ll say it again. Really think all the problems with inflated supply and devaluation get fixed with an illuvitar burning method. Burn illuvitars into essence that you can use to create skins and battleboards. Essence could also be used as extra energy or increased move speed in overworld. Anything that doesn’t affect the competitive nature of the game. Essence should not be used to increase catch rate for example. You’ll have people burning massive amounts of T0-T3 illuvitars. T1-T3 illuvitars in every wave will increase in price. Get more essence for burning holo, alpha, and higher tier illuvitars

[undone imp]

Yeah "dust" is a good idea! I think so.
If this is implemented and actually increases the value of the illuvitars, and more trades are done in the marketplace, the value of the illuvitars may increase.
If it is still some time before a game with "dust" is released, we should consider delaying the sale of WAVE3, if the DAO's funds are not problem.
In the meantime, PVP may increase the number of users
The balance of "dust" is very important, too little of it and you will buy them at ETH instead of buying "illuvitars", too much of it can destroy the balance of the game.

And if other games are developed using illuvitars, it could also increase the value of illuvitars.
This is something we can't create right now because we don't have the resources, but if you have a solid vision, adding it to the roadmap may make it worthwhile for the illuvitars!

I would like to hear from those who bought wave1 and did not buy wave2
People who still buy Wave2 for their collections will buy Wave3, but we need to think about how to get people who did not buy Wave2 to buy Wave3.
With the increase in the number of users, it is possible that this will be resolved in time, but as it is now, Wave 3 sales will probably be the same or lower than now.
From a collector's point of view, some people might be better off with lower sales.
But Even if "dust" is implemented, if the supply greatly exceeds the demand, I think that the illuvitars will have a very difficult time.

[compact hare]

That's one mechanism that would tie it back to the total ecosystem and manage the over supply of T0. Not sad about this idea

[paper snow]

Apologies for the delayed response but these are my thoughts on the topic/questions:

How can we increase the value of illuvitars?
I don't think the value of illuvitars will increase if it stays as it is now.
The problem with NFTs is that they have no value as assets if there are no buyers.
ILV can be sold, but NFTs cannot.

Rather than taking away the core mechanics of illuvitars (accessories) we need to find a way to add value. We see a lack of it right now since the immediate value it has is just for leaderboards which caters to the top 100. However, its already planned that if you complete albums you unlock rewards such as skins or battleboards. Inherently, this will already increase the demand and value of illuvitars that are not as desirable as the T4/T5s. Additionally, it has been shared that a GDD was drafted by Labs on the possible Illuvitars Card Game. This adds more utility and value for the illuvitars across the board.

Lastly, the "substance" mechanic was also hinted where youre able to burn unwanted illuvitars/accessories that would boost certain actions in Overworld.

I would wait until all of these are implemented before we look into making any major changes to Illuvitars core mechanisms.

Do you have the following data?
・Number of addresses that purchased Wave1 and did not purchase Wave2
・Number of addresses that purchased WAVE2 only (number of completely new users)
・Average purchase amount or total purchase amount from 1st to 100th place
If you know this, I think you can predict how many people will purchase WAVE3.

The team should have this. Setting aside the data, it has been decided that we wont release any waves until open beta which is why wave 2 was extended to coincide with the partnership with the esports team. This was a result of the overwhelming sentiment of the DAO against releasing a new wave before open beta.

I don't think the current game rewards will be a big battle between whales because you only have to keep your own ranking.
I think this is a problem we knew from WAVE1.

I agree. Leaderboard rewards are geared towards a subset of people who can afford to maintain their status in those ranks. I may be wrong but my understanding is that the leaderboards are reset after each season. Were currently in Season 1 still. However, I do note that the season might be too long and it would be beneficial for the DAO to limit seasons to maybe 6 months so that leaderboards are reset.

I'm sure my idea will never be adopted.

I hope this does not discourage you nor anyone from sharing their thoughts. While ideas may not always get adopted it will always be discussed and we can extract different perspectives that will continue to shape the direction of the project. At the very least, we are able to provide an avenue for the community to be heard and hopefully understand the rationale why the direction is the way it is.

[frosty inlet]

I think it is much simpler than all of this:

1. When the bull market comes, increase leaderboard awarded list, to incentivate more people to engage in the challenge. If you want them to spend, you need to give them the chance to earn.

2. Allow the option to unbind or be able to see the Illuvitars wirhout accesories. Little cost for unbonding and burning NFT mechanisisms.

3. Increase marketing and disc Battle during bull run, and possible annocouncement of a future Game develolpment (which is actually, the final solution in the long term.

[undone imp]

Yeah I think your opinion is really good!
The idea for my next post was about exactly that.
I am so glad to have like this feedback!
I'd love to get more and more feedback from people who agree or disagree.
I think we can come up with new ideas from there.

[smoky kite]

"Leaderboard rewards are geared towards a subset of people who can afford to maintain their status in those ranks. I may be wrong but my understanding is that the leaderboards are reset after each season. Were currently in Season 1 still. However, I do note that the season might be too long and it would be beneficial for the DAO to limit seasons to maybe 6 months so that leaderboards are reset."

I would like to see any document or official communication where this is mentioned. Because this is the first time I'm hearing about this and I hope it's just your personal opinion. I probably don't have to explain why would this be a huge deal for current collectors. I know that those ILV rewards are a thorn in the eyes of many people who are not on the leaderboard, but let's not forget that those battling it out on the top are spending in the range of hundreds of thousands to be able to be there (and have been doing it during the bear). "All they need to do is maintaining their position" = spending more money each wave. Easier said than done.

If the current learedboard payouts are kept for 3 years, they will still only account for 1.56% of the ILV prize pool given out to players. Does that still sound like a lot?? People who will spend a fraction of that money (needed to stay on the Beyond leaderboard) on an illuvial team will be able to make way more on the PVP leaderboard.

Frankly, it's a little unsettling to hear from a council member that their only consideration is "what would be beneficial for the DAO", rather than "what would be beneficial for the DAO, that would also not involve shafting our biggest bear market spenders who benefited the DAO with their cash during development". @paper snow

[eager spruce]

0.5% a year of ILV price pool spending sounds like a lot... at least to me, considering they want to do 10 games in 20 years.
0.5% a year means that in the grand sheme of the IP, 10 % are spent for the pfp part of the project.

[paper snow]

I prefaced the statement that I may be wrong on it. After checking discord and confirming with Nick, what resets were the personal goal rewards not the leaderboards. For the misinformation, I apologize.

Setting that aside, there is merit in looking at how we can address the gap here. As you mentioned, it would not do any good to ostracize the current leaderboard but at the same time there should be a platform to allow more people to participate. It could be as simple as extending the leaderboard or we have separate leaderboards per set while maintaining an overall leaderboard for the whole collection.

There are many approaches to the problem. Just because a possible solution is something you may not personally agree with doesn't negate the fact that there is a gap that may require addressing.

On your comment on what's benefitting the dao, you are correct it's not the only consideration and that's why we have discussions such as these to be able to raise valid concerns from all sides. I'd be more unsettled if a sudden proposal was presented without having to consult with those in the leaderboard.

[smoky kite]

How did you come up with that 10%? Did you just add 0.5% for each year in your 20-year calculation?

[smoky kite]

OK, that sounds better 🙂 I did not mean to come across too harsh, I was just genuinely surprised by what you said as I never heard of any plans for resetting the leaderboard (not even sure how could this work?).

I am all for both more discussion on the topic and for more people to get rewarded in some way. But I think we can't have a meaningful discussion yet, without knowing the plans the team has for Beyond. Either Nick or Johnny mentioned that they have 20-30 items on their list of future improvements for Beyond and I'm sure most of these are aimed to cater for an ever-expanding playerbase, including the expansion of rewards.

[paper snow]

Agree. It would do us well to know what the plans are for beyond that might already address the issue. But in the same vein, it would also help them if everyone's sentiments are shared amicably

Edit: the reason why wave 3 was pushed after open beta was because people shared their sentiment against releasing before open beta. That's why we're a dao

Leaderboard recipients would be the most affected here so it would be folly not to get yours and the others sentiments for sure.

[undone imp]

I got my corona vaccination today, so I won't be able to comment for a while from now on.
I will post my next idea in English as soon as I feel better!
Please wait until then, don't get too heated.
I would like to hear opinions on it !