Skins for Illuvials

[bright sigil]

Why?

1. Skinomics is one the biggest grossing revenue for gaming
2. Gamers buy skins to flex, but OW is a single-player
3. Ranger and mozart looks small compared to the Illuvials in the Arena, esp. the stage 3 illuvials
4. OW might have roaming illuvials

How?

1. Cheap Illuvials
   Make the cost of Illuvials really low, like $50 for a full deck. Low barrier to entry. Gamers are used to F2P (free champs) and $60 full AAA game

2. Offer skins from:
   a. IZ BPs
   b. DAO gacha-like Disk
   c. DAO Limited event sale
   d. Beyond album unlocks or rare illuvitars
   e. OW rare drops
   f. Skin creator tools. Public can sell their own skins

MILVGA

[ancient yew]

Isn't this what we're already doing? We already have: a, b, c and d. At this point we've seen dron skins from OW i.e. 'e'. Are you asking for just skin creator or are you trolling us?

[bright sigil]

we have skins for illuvials?

[ancient yew]

You're right.

I think this can stand in the way of going down the line and reducing the workload by introducing alternative versions of illuvials(i.e. Poison Rhamphyre). I think this was already an idea that was going around.

I fully support the cheap illuvial part of this!

[bright sigil]

i can already imagine the skins for illuvials gonna look more appealing than the skins for rangers and mozart

you can only use 1 ranger and 1 mozart in the arena, but you gonna use many illuvials

[merry juniper]

Fantastic idea. The only thing better than a color swap is a color swap you have control over. Some pokemon shiny colors are terrible. Would be much more appealing if you could acquire a variety of shiny colors for the same pokemon. In Illuvium's case this will lead to a greater sense of pride in ownership and subsequent revenue generation. When the team has time full send.

[bright sigil]

thanks. moba skins can really go crazy. i remember rolling a few $hundreds just to get a limited event skin. and you can do collab skins too

[sharp goblet]

Pokemon Unite is a great example of Character skins

[bright sigil]

ur a fkn genius. i completely forgot about that game. looking into it

seriously this is a money printer

[final warren]

Will state the one big push back that will be received -

The LORE

.
This was the main argument and the reason for Illuvium "Beyond" ("Beyond the Lore")

With that said - accessories/skins should exist for illuvials.

Just like Pikachu wearing Ashes hat, why can my Archie have a ranger helmet custom fitted for him - who says the ranger wouldn't do that? I totally would 😆

[hot swift]

I remember asking Aaron about this and from memory he doesn't want skins for the first Set as he wants them to be Iconic but with Set 2 we should get Illuviual skins

[lost dune]

Your “how to add Illuvial skins” is make Illuvials cheap rather than hire more artists to create multiple skins.

My questions are what’s the benefit over multiple skins rather than having Illuials that come in different forms. Holo, dark, shiny ect,

Secondly as our Illuvials are super high res, won’t this be a ton of work while resources are low?

[merry juniper]

tbh i was thinking illuvials coming in different colors/patterns etc. I dont think these types of skins look good. I was picturing a blue ramphire for example

[crimson idol]

They did mention water Rhamphyre in the past

[tranquil lodge]

I'd like to see battle armor for Illuvials. Basically skins with a cosmetic and real purpose. Different armor gives different abilities. Once bonded can't be removed. I don't agree with public being able to make skins.

[final warren]

@crimson idol love the name 😆
They mentioned "typing"/"region alternatives" - Frost Rhamphyre was mentioned also

[lyric ridge]

Well... I don't see why someone would be against skins, if they are optional, so I guess the key information here is why they are not on the track (because we have skins for Mozart and ranger), the Lore/strategic reasons and the workload they could imply

[tranquil lodge]

Workload is definitely a thing.

[lyric ridge]

I guess there is no need to have base skins, they could do them for specific events or periods, release skins now and then.
I'm more curious about why they are not currently as a future option?

[cosmic ferry]

I'm not opposed to the idea and I think there's a lot of room for creativity here. I believe Aaron's comment was that some future variants (i.e. the Poison Rhamphyre) might actually be their own Illuvials in future lines so they want to leave room for that when a particular Illuvial might need to be added with a different class/affinity for future balancing.

[nova shell]

I think going by the logic of having some future Illuvials e.g. rhampyre in a different version than inferno/phantom we shouldn´t add skins on top of that so it is visually obvious which Illuvial is which one.

So you prob have to scrap that option in favor of making more new Illuvials, so you can sell more cosmetics.
Cost on making new Illuvials and those cosmetics would have to outweigh the income of people buying these new skins, you also have to compare how much people would have spend on e,g, battleboards/ranger/emotes that now goes into this, so not all the revenue would be extra.

Seems like a big risk to take imo and bad re gameplay options, as it takes rather easy to make Illuvials away.

Also makes the game look less serious, might not be on brand to make cosmetics for the creatures.

I recall that beyond was made for e.g. that reason to have the silly stuff outside of the main universe.

[tranquil lodge]

Good points @nova shell .

[bright sigil]

so instead of skins, it should be accessories like pokemon unite. it doesnt go against the lore. should we use beyond's acc?

[bright sigil]

do you like to have skins/accessories on illuvials?

[hot swift]

I think it would be cool to have a purple atlas but I lean more on the side of not having skins and accessories for Set 1(to keep iconic) but for Set 2 I think it would be cool if it can be done right.

[bright sigil]

the idea is to offer illuvials as cheaply as possible to attract F2P gamers.
having different versions of an illuvial means you need to spend more money on the illuvial, you need to level up the versions too.
why not own one illuvial, and you can put different skins/accessories on it?

[bright sigil]

it can be a skin color change too. the possibility of skins/acc is endless

[lost dune]

Aren’t those ideas separate. You’ve somehow added making Illuvials cheap which I think you mean travel to this skin idea.

If you make travel cheap, why skins over multiple forms of the one Illuvial, you’re selling the skin right? Or is it mostly give away?

[bright sigil]

i like that, i can imagine titanor with japanese war armor. The additional bonus stats from skins/acc can be applied to leviathan arena to make it P2W

[bright sigil]

i have a concern with multiple versions of an illuvial. it will increase the cost of the overall deck. i see the trend in gaming is F2P, meaning gamers are used to access champs/heroes for free.
im not really fond of having poison rhampyre, imagine if pokemon has poison charmander.
surely we can limit the acc/skins theme to be more serious, like how dota2 skins are, but we know funny skins like in LoL sells more

[bright sigil]

to make the cost of owning illuvials cheap we need to make fuel cost cheap and the chance of capturing illuvials higher. we dont make much money on illuvials, but we make more on skins/acc. just like how F2P game is

[lost dune]

Ok do we know the current cost to travel yet?

[bright sigil]

we dont. imo we should work it out top down.
cost of a deck = fuel cost x capture chance

crypton $1/25% chance = $4

[lost dune]

Sounds right

[nova shell]

jag just tries to push his opinion of how a game should be, which would fundamentally change what Illuvium is/wants to be and take away from the current value and innovation proposition.

the idea fails to consider many risks and differences to the avg established web2 game, e.g. cost of an Illuvial is obv higher than some web2 character in a moba/autobattler.

trend is also not f2p, the trend is battle pass and monthly subs for X% better ingame currency deal, which doesn´t even matter that much, as Illuvium has a different economy than any of these games and trying to compare 1-1 is heavily misguiding as I mentioned a lot in vetemors ideas when he tries to argue this.

the baseline assumption that character needs to be cheap and money needs to be made with cosmetics is just false, as that isn´t the case in every game, many games have expensive characters/cards and few to no cosmetics and do well

also "people are used to access champs/heroes for free" is false, many games offer you some characters/some cards, enough to build a funtional deck e.g., which Illuvium does T0s+Free rotation
the "multiple versions of an illuvial. it will increase the cost of the overall deck" comment also doesn´t seem to make sense, why would adding an entirely new illuvial be different from having new class/affinity on visually existing ones?

also jag, we had this topic more than once before if I remember correctly and I believe I pointed out that the asusmptions you make here weren´t 100% true, it would be nice if you could state your opinions as opinions or have some sorta statistic or anything real backing it up

[lost dune]

Who’s fuel system are you backing btw?

[nova shell]

Aarons seems best

[bright sigil]

how can i change something fundamental about ILV when the cost of fuel and capture chance has not been decided?
this idea is expanding on skins that are already offered for rangers and mozart.

just like moba, battle pass/monthly subs is an addition to skin shop, it does not eliminate. i do subs to Mobile Legends's season pass to get exclusive skins and perks.

your "false" opinion on my opinion is also an opinion, viper.

you need to pick a game as your base assumption, e.g. mobas.

of course we can have a more expensive illuvials + skins

it does not eliminate the idea of offering skins for illuvials

we can still have holo illuvials wearing battle armor

[rose delta]

I like the idea of having skins for illuvials.

Discovered by land owners, given as rewards to leaderboards… prices control by supply/demand ! Add some exceptional skins sold by the DAO. That’s IBG web3 !

Going to give a lot of incentive to land and illuvitars owners !!!

Price impact is more complicate as we don’t know shit and are not in control of any of the prices anyway

What would be negative with doing skins for illuvials ? Like color variation, items, emblems, tatoo, armor, etc.

Example: Diablo4 have cost to get the game, battle pass to get more rewards every season, and skins for mounts, items, characters. It’s not mutually exclusive.

[lost dune]

Are you trusting the high IQ or you think the benefits out way the negatives? Sorry to steer your idea @bright sigil I think you’re partially onto something.

[bright sigil]

i really think skins for illuvials is the money printer.
even pokemon unite (moba) is doing it.
some people are concerned that skins for illuvials are going to undermine rare illuvials versions like holo illuvials. it can work together i believe.

we can reach more buyers with illuvials skins/accessories vs just a handful of holo-illuvials.

imagine holo-illuvials + demon wings + dark halo

i can see @nova shell PoV as an elitist, he wants to keep ILV pure. even WoW (hardcore pc master race) offers silly costumes and pets

[drifting pagoda]

Skins for Illuvials meh, but I could imagine giving them some cool gear like in Illuvium Beyond (hats 🧢, pants 🩳 glasses 🕶️, etc...) Although, the animation and rendering Team would not enjoy the shit ton of extra work associated with it 😂

[bright sigil]

clown nose?

[drifting pagoda]

Exactly 💯🔥🤣

[fringe vine]

I like this, yet for a future idea. I really want to see the system already proposed

[orchid lotus]

Maybe in 5 years, not now.

[brave isle]

I have similar concerns to @nova shell with this idea. It could be one for the future though. Like @fringe vine I'd prefer to see the current vision for illuvium play out first before adding illuvial skins.

[nova shell]

"your "false" opinion on my opinion is also an opinion, viper."

the things I pointed out are simply untrue, not my opinion, there are many counter examples, I won´t waste time in some back and forth, I care about informing people reading this, not you at this point, as you seem to push your opinion over reality

I don´t think it should never be an option to talk about skins or cosmetics for illuvials directly, maybe something like an armor, that then gives the Illuvial different stats or similar while visually being obvious could be a better solution to some silly thing, as that gives not only some new look, but also a new Illuvial.

Important feedback on this would also be from the team how much workload these skins would be, as I assume it would be a lot more than avg web2 moba skins e.g., so a lot more expensive to create for additional revenue that would need to be evaluated, this is not a clear net positive thing.

A big annoying part on this is you trying to misguide people reading into this is a new way of making game cheaper/more web2, which for sure fundamentally tries to change the concept of a collecting game and the economy attached to it, you keep disregarding the fact, that Illuvium with free T0 Overworld, free T0 Illuvials, free Survival game mode, free rotation has completly fine onboarding and offers dozens of hours of gameplay for people without spending 1$.

[nova shell]

I think I am rather realist about upsides, downsides and cost/potential income involved, but being realistic about issues would be bad for "your idea" so yeah try to attack my personality or intentions instead of arguing arguments.

You haven´t presented any data or arguments besides the Thesis "skins are good, we should make them, they would make Illuvium money", why would the above be true? "state false/caveat-heavy f2p claim", microtransaction based tendency would be more accurate with offering people enough onboarding to experience the game, which ILV will be doing as well. Re make money, is still cost of making skins vs expected income, what is the expected income, is it taking away from other things like emote/battleboard/rangersuit? is it new/extra? these aren´t clearly answered questions and you try to not ecen acknowledge them existing, as you seem to believe your thesis is true by axiom and anything questioning it is wrong.

would they diminish meaning of holos, another question with no clear answer
dev time would also be a concern, would this be so much work on many different teams, that it could delay other things?

[bright sigil]

wow playing victim

ill find time to reply to the text wall

[nova shell]

I am not playing victim, is this some try to divert again from all the potential issues with your idea?

I won´t further comment, if you will keep making more thesis, assumptions, attacks on me instead of my arguments, not wasting the time of people reading this.

[bright sigil]

[bright sigil]

TL:DR on Viper's

• he doesn't want ILV to change
• your idea doesn't make sense
• stop wasting his time
• you are trolling if you are trying to discuss

[nova shell]

nice, you have disregarded every argument and concern and counter example

[crimson idol]

Can you them sum them up instad of just attacking eachother? Getting so annoyed about the way conversations are going in here. It's like people don't want to get anywhere but just want to argue

[nova shell]

I have made calm and reasonable concerns and arguments

[crimson idol]

But I can see why the PvP Maxi's would not like this idea

[bright sigil]

is there a way to implement skins for illuvials that you may agree with?

[crimson idol]

Would be nice to use your Illuvitar as a skin

[nova shell]

there are obv pros and cons, jag seems to try and disregard all the potentials cons

posting this going into a time with little team checking this channel also makes it rather difficult to get quick feedback from someone internal as to why such an obvious idea isn´t persued, I would assume many of the potential problems are rather big workloads/unexpected return

Jag tries to dismiss those even being concerns, this seems very bad faith at this point, also has only tried to attack me instead of arguments/concerns, trying to turn this into some scoring points with the public thing instead of clearing up up/downsides

[nova shell]

might be relevant to clear up all the potential issues/workload/costs first before even thinking of the gamedesign thing and how it could impact pvp/collecting/existing systems

I want to mention again this question is not answering to any of mine or any of the concerns or if jag considered any of this ever.

[crimson idol]

Well it's not his fault people are not reading this? And I don't think thats why he posted it now. Seems a bit far fetched. If you would like feedback from a team member, just ping them and they will reply when they can.
I really don't feel like it's needed to constantly say he is attacking you when you are just assuming he is posting this with bad intentions. It works both ways, just focus on the proposal instead of eachother.
I personally don't think this would be a lot of work

[nova shell]

wdym he clearly didn´t respond to anything in a relevant not dismissve way

[bright sigil]

im sorry if i hurt your feeling viper

[bright sigil]

there is no way i can budget the cost of labor viper, wht ur asking is impossible

[nova shell]

you disregard any of these even being concerns as to why there are no skins for illuvials atm

[nova shell]

just insane how you aren´t banned

[crimson idol]

The Illuvials are already designed, putting a cap or shirt on them doesn't seem that much work to me. Probably @bleak sierra @dense sapphire or @silver sable can confirm / deny this. Rather have the people actually doing it to reply on this instead.

[bright sigil]

because people actually like me, viper

[bright sigil]

thx betty

[dense sapphire]

Its not happening anytime soon

[crimson idol]

We are aware of that but it seems the discussion here is about if this would be a lot of work or not.

[bright sigil]

ru saying there is a chance?

[dense sapphire]

Yes

[crimson idol]

There you go, it's a lot of work. Topic closed. Have a nice day.

[dense sapphire]

Noone in the game wears a cap btw, so from a lore thing , probably not welcome to add that

Just in that perspective

Beyond is possible as it sits outside

Of the lore universe sort of

[crimson idol]

Damn who would have imagined pinging a team member would be useful. Isn't it much easier to just attack eachother instead?
Sorry, now I'm going off topic myself.

Thank you for the reply Rogier

[bleak sierra]

@dense sapphire remember about alter version of existing illuvials.
I highly against adding anything to existing illuvials, as it'll be very difficult to recognise of what it is at the glance

[bright sigil]

if we have the resource and time, how would it look like?

[bleak sierra]

especially in pvp, which I guess you all aiming for to flex

[crimson idol]

This is a good point, Viper also made it. I already have a hard time sometimes with the Lynxes

[nova shell]

I thought I was only attacking poor jag

[bright sigil]

yes, we need skins to flex

[bleak sierra]

you've got 5000k skins for rangers

that should be enough for now

[crimson idol]

But only 1 ranger and 8 illuvials 🥺

[bright sigil]

im not woke tho

[crimson idol]

5000k skins for ranger 🤯 I'm not sure I like that tbh. "They are all 1/1" so they are all worth $1

[bleak sierra]

not to mention that Aaron gonna hunt each of you and murder if any of this IIP will pass hahahah

[crimson idol]

I would love to meet Aaron

[dense sapphire]

U dont know that yet

[bright sigil]

but ranger looks so small next to the illuvials

[crimson idol]

Maybe just for like 2 min and then I know it was a bad idea. Same goes for you. I don't know if I didn't try it

[bleak sierra]

don't forget about some extra vfx that will come later

[brave isle]

We definitely have to start approaching these discussions in a healthier way. Since the fuel proposals people just seem to want to fight. More concerned with who is talking rather than what they are actually saying

It's starting to get boring

[crimson idol]

💯

[bright sigil]

battle armor is canon

[bright sigil]

my bad, i should have done better

[bleak sierra]

the biggest thing you can flex if you want to is the battleboard skin

I'm not up to date how that gonna work in pvp, but @dense sapphire and @feral hinge can help here

• emotes

[bright sigil]

im thinking about samurai armor,
mecha armor

[bleak sierra]

for ranger?

[bright sigil]

steampunk armor
for illuvials

[crimson idol]

I wonder where in the lore it says Illuvials don't like GS caps

[bleak sierra]

it's not about that, but in general doesn't fit the lore at all

like you don't add elfs into the matrix

because it doesn't make sense

[short hazel]

Lore can be rewritten. If an idea is good for the DAO then it is good for the DAO

[bleak sierra]

here we go again

[crimson idol]

This is a great idea, I'll start on the IIP right now. People love elves

[brave isle]

I'm not picking out individuals jag. I'm saying the active community as a whole has become less cordial in recent weeks.

[dense sapphire]

Theres a bunch of people that just want to try and derail things, create chaos in the form of a good idea. I can tell u everyone is busting their balls 24/7 to get this game done.. stuff like this just freaks people out and i urge to think about the implications of coming up with random stuff and try and rally up the crowd.

[bright sigil]

and thats how u kill ideas

[dense sapphire]

Just urs

[crimson idol]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/791148476218081321/1002679533016719420/5a6bb11a-51fa-45a1-ab55-c9e830452758.gif

[bright sigil]

you can give a thumb down to derail the idea

[ancient yew]

To be frank, I don't think this was a deliberate attempt to derail anything. Not all applications were considered. And we're doing just this now. So I think the process works. It's a bit sad that this weigths this much on the team. My thought were that the council members would take the brunt here.

[crimson idol]

I'm starting to feel like this Gov V2 is not working like people hoped it would. Would this describe how you feel?

[ancient yew]

Can I just say, that it can be better? We're still getting used to it. And to stay on topic I'd leave it at that.

[bright sigil]

i managed to freak rogier out

[bright sigil]

agen smith is literally elrond

[rose delta]

@bright sigil what’s the timeline you’ve in mind ?

Because I read that as something for 2024/2025 and when the art team have nothing to do

But I see comment that feels like getting that by next month

Ideas can be agreed upon and voted for later dev, priorities to be given by the council. That’s how it should work …

[tranquil lodge]

Yesterday I thumbs upped because although some parts I didn't like (free for all skin creating) I did like some of it.

Today I am changing to thumbs down after team response. Maybe something to bring up again in the future but yeah, for now it's probably best to stay focused. Get it done, find out what the lore is, play for awhile and see how it goes. Sorry Jag, it isn't about your idea as a whole, just the timing.

I still think armor would be cool and if you can make the ranger skins why not the captured creatures? But early days and I don't know of what I speak until I get to know the lore I guess.

Adding: Fraggy's right about the lynxes though. I am not sure I want to play with even more confusion.

[bright sigil]

i have been wanting skins for illuvials since i saw how ranger is so small next to the illuvials. T0 dnt need skins because they are free anyway.
that's fine, i just want to post it here and get some discussion going. maybe for future reference

[bright sigil]

ive been wanting skins for illuvials since the i have tried the arena and minted land.
one of the reason i sold my plots is because ranger and mozart looks so small, and how OW is a single player.
the art team has spoken, and it is not possible to do it now.
it just have to be shelved
but im happy some people show interest and we have a little discussion going.
i hope people can see the upside potential of this money printer.

[tranquil lodge]

[crimson idol]

Totally agree and did the same

[bright sigil]

guys u can leave the thumb up, and no need to IIP this

[tidal sapphire]

This is a great idea(skins for illuvials) and pretty much a no-brainer, I don't know where all the backlash is coming from. The lore not fitting arguement is wonki, there are plenty of examples in different games where skin doesnt match the lore but is introduced for fun anyway.

The arguement where skins can reduce viewer/player ability to understand whats happening on the board is somewhat viable, but again is something big companies like Riot choose to disregard, for higher profit. The effect also diminishes overtime, as people get used to the skins. It also adds more excitement for streaming viewers, watching their favorite streamer play with cool rare skins which they want aswell.

The exact way this should be delivered is up for debate, in my opinion there shouldnt be skins for every single illuvial, at first at least. It should be more rare from the beginning, maybe earned from different sources like ILVZ, Leviathan, etc. I'm particularly fond of rare illuvial skins being part of the Leviathan seasonal rewards, based on rank achieved. Dunno if all skins should be NFT and tradable, that needs brainstorming, but some should be, especially those rare ones earned from competition and other special events. I know for a fact those will sell cause people in League were paying for someone to boost their rank to unlock the seasonal skin which you unlock for achieving Gold and up. Then ontop of illuvial trading fees, we will have skin trading fees too.

Some skins can be tied to OW legendary quest lines, where player has to spend an X amount of fuel to complete this quest. Others can be tied to OW challenges, those will spark interest too. Some players will need this X amount of fuel to complete those, others will need much more, thus adding additional revenue. Seriously, whats the downside. Lore?

[bright sigil]

damn thats a really good write up.
so start really slow, like just a few rare illuvial skins. i like your take better than mine actually
i notice that in moba, new heroes only have like 2 skins, and they add up gradually.

this can actually work.
and the art team is not bogged down by workload

[tidal sapphire]

Yes, can start with a certain amount of skins, for certain amount of illuvials, earned/bought from different mechanisms and then build up from there. Not huge developing cost and easier for the player/viewer to get used to. The benefits of this are many

[bright sigil]

@dense sapphire @bleak sierra thoughts? just start a few and slow?

and canon to lore, nothing crazy like santa claus skin

[rose delta]

Yeah no need “pole dancer atlas” but an atlas with a gold skin could be pretty amazing

And I don’t want that to slow the release in Q4, can come after.

[tidal sapphire]

Gold/Plat/Diamond/Master/Challenger etc can have their own spin aswell. Also dunno whats wrong with a xmas Adorius or other deer type xmas skins. That shit will sell

[tidal sapphire]

Yeah, can be 6-12 months after OB

[rose delta]

For sure Christmas, Halloween, CNY, etc are no matter what being sales

But if the team is worried for the lore

Stuff that flex without being too nasty on the eye is a no brainer

Platinum ramphyre … omg ….

[bright sigil]

we know that the art team is gonna be bogged down by 5m skins for rangers
wait that 5k or 5m?

cyberpunk skins

[tidal sapphire]

sounds like dollar rain to me

[rose delta]

Definitely

[rose delta]

Once the team will see gold skin selling like cake, it could be fun for sure

[bright sigil]

guys seriously this is square enix money printer

[rose delta]

Maid café … maybe let’s keep that for 2026 …

[bright sigil]

@lunar compass can testify

[rose delta]

But … diamond Scoriox or Singe … damn

[bright sigil]

[tidal sapphire]

Now imagine the market price for that and the flex points, knowing only about 0.01% will reach Diamond and up

I think it can work very well with a Leviathan battle pass. You pay an upfront cost and then the more objectives you complete, the more things you earn (can include cosmetics, titles, emotes etc not only skins). And unlike battle passes in other games, once completing a cycle, you have option to sell some of your rewards that can pay for the battle pass itself or turn you into profit, depending how far you progressed.

If they use the elo chess ranking system, and reach big enough playerbase then roughly 40-50% of players will reach Gold and qualify for the first skin, which means the rest will be left with the lesser rewards, like emotes, titles, ilvz/ow items etc.

Taking that into account, battle pass can be split into 2 versions.

• A standard battle pass, priced accordingly, that allows you to unlock rewards up to a certain level, like Gold. That will be the standard and cheaper version, which most normies/casual players will go for, knowing Gold is highest they can reach and thus not needing to pay more for the higher rewards.

• Ultimate battle pass, costs more but greater rewards too. This one will be for those who already feel comfortable reaching Gold and up and wanna compete for the higher rewards.

This by itself will create higher demand for better stat illuvials, add additional profit from battle passes, additional profits from skin/rewards trading fees, better community/viewership engagement and retention. Quests/Challenges for skins in OW will create higher fuel demand on their end too. This is a win-win

[rose delta]

Feels like the battle pass of diablo4 and all the little things it gives

But we are here to tak about skin for illuvials not really battle pass and timeline and how it’s linked to the lore and all that

I know it may be linked to it but then it complexify the subject

I like the concept of battle pass though

[tidal sapphire]

Yep it was only one example of where skins can be implemented, OW being another one, probably can be done in ILVz too

[rose delta]

The value for land owners if we can find skins to sell would be sick though …

I find a gold skin, all gold players would jump on me to buy it first …

And yeah battle pass is another good source 👍🏻

[tidal sapphire]

Yes I feel land owners will need something like this to keep playing. Not only does it seem land will earn less than simply staking ilv, but it requires time spent aswell. This is a good way to make it more fun/worth playing, having something to work towards.

[lunar compass]

cant say ive partaken in them, but they were pretty prevelant

[tender sierra]

First there were skins out of IZ and special stuff from Illuvium itself, then beyond came with Battle boards and Album skins, now you wana add ow and a battlepass as skinsource...
Can't see the value increase of IZ-land

[lunar compass]

if they want value to add to ILZ, why not just a new building that can have the internals customized and act as a social lobby, land owners could rent out access or entry into, or mint nft passes for access that they can increase supply of, but have to buy off market themselves to burn, then maybe someone could make a maid cafe for @bright sigil

[bright sigil]

maid cafe is life

[lunar compass]

i know this chat is supposed to be skins, but adding new buildings to ILZ with new blockchain utility seems more appealing, internal decorations could be nfts crafted by landowners and bought by landowners, kinda a lighter version of the stadium on T5 lands

[lost dune]

I like that these conversations became somewhat constructive after the ego was removed. Good work Jag listening to others and reconsidering your original idea.

I went with a thumbs down for now because this is clearly something team has considered. It would slow down the delay the current workload when we should be focusing more on that MVP.

My idea is next time your ideas should contain pros and cons with arguments to support your idea against the cons and defend them without ego.

[bright sigil]

Thx wayland, i will update the idea with feedback gathered from the convo.

[lost dune]

Remember, no one makes the first jump.

[bright sigil]

i have so many chaos to post

[lost dune]

Convince the team that they should be working on a SmashKarts clone in the background. That will get the F2P players involved in the ecosystem. They should go with low poly graphics and just smash it out.

[lost dune]

That game is almost 100% skins

[tender sierra]

I Van totally See many people have amazing ideas what they wana implement, but often don't consider if it is good for the original idea of the massive universe, with it's own economy bound to real life value, where everything is connected.
When i hear Stuff Like f2p, Make the game Like tft, compare it to other traditional game mechanics which worked, i always think this dude didn't got what they actually trying to build. Be more open minded to a total new genre with it's own mechanics.

Just wait until first Stuff is live, and they introduced what's coming Next before trying to completely Change the Base idea of illuvium.

[bright sigil]

i probably wont go for a new game. just expanding what have been built. something like a simplified arena mode for casual players, 5 illuvials vs 5 illuvials

[lost dune]

Yeah I agree if it’s crushing.

[bright sigil]

not sure if ILV is a total new genre. it's TFT x Heartstone. with the gaming and marketing subcouncil spesifically targeting TFT players it's evident that we are a version of TFT

[tender sierra]

Due to the gamemechanic of the first game, the autobattler, it makes Sense to go after their playerbase... Doesn't make illuvium to a version of tft 😂

[bright sigil]

not sure we can expect a new game soon. the main issue with skins for illuvials is workload, then lore.

[tender sierra]

Definetly not soon

[fringe vine]

I think this would be cool. In a dungeon party crawler. You have your team of illuvials that are your companions, maybe only 4, and the. And then have armour skins that requires blueprints from land.
I would like to stress though I'm thinking maybe 2 years+
At this point.

[tidal sapphire]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Battlepass suggestion was for Leviathan only. Some skins could come out of OW quests and then ILVz could have their own mechanic of unique skins aswell, that was the value increase of ilvz suggested in that post, unique skins exclusively earned from ilvz players.

[green walrus]

Kinda surprised this got downvoted so much. I think the idea of illuvial skins is fine idk about the “how” section of the idea though.

[crimson idol]

Upvotes was winning and then I pinged Rogier and Dmitry and we all swapped

[green walrus]

Ahh I see now lol. I mean they have a point 😂😂

[bright sigil]

betty single handedly killed my first idea

upvote was 15 to 10

[crimson idol]

https://tenor.com/view/pedro-monkey-puppet-meme-awkward-gif-15268759

[merry juniper]

Funny skins aren't the vibe imo. I would support battle armor and/or color swaps

[ancient yew]

Skins are the vibe, but we already have too many of them. And adding more skins would just eat out from landholders. It's enought that we're adding skins to beyond already.
And I preffer using 'skins' as alternative versions of illuvials in a few waves, so that we can move faster later on.

[bright sigil]

the team said no

[viral tundra]

I highly say no to skins in arena, for the simple fact that we will have to make quick strategic decision with limited amount of time.
Adding sling will just makes it way more difficult.
After some time playing, you spot in a fraction of second what are the illuvials present, what are there affinity ect. If you add skins, it will be a mess.

I m not against it in overworld.

[tidal sapphire]

Mobas have skins and those have much more dynamic gameplay, where sometimes u have to make multiple decisions/reactions in less than a second. Skins do make that a bit more difficult but people get used to it fairly quickly, even though some skins change not only the appearance but ability animations too.

I don't see it being a problem here, as you will probably have plenty of time to formulate your strategy.

[bright sigil]

what about skins for the ranger?

[viral tundra]

Yep, why not as this does not impact in any way !👍

[lost dune]

Bikini skins?

[feral hinge]

I vote for a series of hats.

[bright sigil]

doka in bikini?

[tender sierra]

Male Ranger in Bikini?

[bright sigil]

i dont judge

[green walrus]

I was literally thinking the same thing. I dead ass thought of accessories like in Illuvitars because then there is 0 confusion about which illuvial is which. The problem with skins in an auto battler is it becomes very overwhelming very quickly. Things like hats, glasses, or even like cape would give enough to be “cute” without effecting the competitive integrity of the auto battler.

[lost dune]

Let’s make a fun game first

[bright sigil]

pokemon unite is doing accessories

[green walrus]

That game sure looks like a moba to me 🤔

[bright sigil]

it is a moba, not your typical moba. i dnt play it, its weird

[green walrus]

It’s not an auto battler that’s my point

[bright sigil]

hmmm

[crimson idol]

Rogier is gonna kill you

[bright sigil]

aaron is gonna hunt u down

[tranquil lodge]

Hats and shoes.

[bright sigil]

soon

imaging fading jag

[wooden flicker]

you completely misunderstood that. The cosmetic is gained by owning the NFT. It's not a skin on top of it.

[bright sigil]

just wait

glowing, holo, dh wont be enough

[wooden flicker]

sure hope that's not the case

make more games instead of trying to squeeze more money out of players with skins taking away the aesthetics of illuvium.

[nova shell]

No big Autobattler has skins for units.
Assuming Riot and Blizzard are just stupid for not doing it is a far fetch.

TFT has essentially Battle Board, Drone, Player-Damage animation skins and cutscenes.

Same as Illuvium always had planned as far as I am aware. (maybe no cutscenes I guess)

with holo/dh Illuvium already has more cosmetics than any of the other games

[bright sigil]

how much TFT make a year

i guess riot and blizz are dumb enough not to charge people to make their champs glow

oh wait their business model is selling skins

Riot said it's a performance issue

Because they need to load so many skins vs just 10 skins in LoL

[nova shell]

The business model of a moba or a BR-Shooter tends to be selling skins, the business model of online card games or gacha games tends to not be selling skins, but cards/characters and few cosmetics on the side.

There are different models for different games and audiences.
Illuvium copies TCG-economy from the real world with overworld being similar to a card pack with gamified elements to it, not a buy skin for X dollar or lootbox for Y-dollar of shop model.

Giving utility to those NFTs seems more relevant and healthy for the DAO and consumer than trying to make more new things on top before even having any real world data or sentiment.

Further Autobattler like HS-BG are a good example of this pure cosmetic idea being not working well on the monetization side of things, so trying it, or forcing it without having any data on intended systems seems not in the interest of the DAO and Stakers.

I know it always sounds nice to say let´s do everything f2p etc., but it often isn´t optimal in reality re revenue or playernumbers, nor what every customer wants. The ones who don´t want to spend money will often be very vocal as the ones with disposable income tend to not care as much and are fine to just play something else.

[bright sigil]

i called out arena being too niche before any data

just took me a few matches in PB1

and here we are

[tender sierra]

if arena is too niche, you don't need to bother about illuvial skins anymore mate 🙂

[nova shell]

9 figures of people play 1v1 strategy games, 10% of people playing games would be 300mil+ people, this "too niche" wording always sounds way worse than it is in reality.

[north wraith]

You also called for making the whole game free to play and removing one of the 3 fuels just a few weeks before launch (never mind the already built systems, UIs etc. for 3 fuel types). And these are just 2 recent examples off the top of my head. So let's not get carried away with the whole "oracle genius" thing...

[bright sigil]

kieran called it a niche of a niche lmao

wht numbers are u pulling out

[bright sigil]

u do know gauntlet is free to play right? and we are leaving ascendant behind.

oh yea i actually want just 1 fuel.
why do i need to buy 3 kinds of fuel?

even we prioritised f2p iz lol

[atomic imp]

maybe we should hear him out on that

[sacred tangle]

Blue flame ramphyre sounds like his mega stage but i would love it as a skin regardless

[sacred tangle]

Rather than being purchasable skins that affect stats which gamers generally don’t like I’d prefer to be able to use the upcoming overworld combat to fight illuvials, gather resources and make these armor suits for them via that method. It’s similar to paying upfront for a skin however the required gameplay and skill aspect should make it more palatable. Or maybe straight up selling the skins “in addition” to the playing the game to grind and craft them could work well. Hell sell em for money but let you grind for them for free or much cheaper at least.

[drifting pagoda]

I'd like oncies for them 😂

[bright sigil]

I need waifu dress for eeb

[sudden topaz]

For arena including all the other game modes Ascendant leviathan gauntlet etc, I'd rather we focus on battle board skins, emotes, drone cosplay/skins. I don't think the skins for illuvials is the way to go.

One it messes with the aesthetic and detracts from the theme of the game. It works well in pokemon go cause of their theme (kid cartoony) while Illuvium is more on the serious side. Plus people are still getting familiar with IP and making skins might confuse them all the more.

Second, in arena there's so much happening on the board. You're almost always at a birds eye view so illuvial skins won't be as appreciated imo. Unlike battle boards where it's right in front of you. It's everywhere and eye catching. While emotes are interactive and fun.

Third, on a marketing and partnership stand point, there's more room for collaborations and even sponsorships with customized battle board themes. Imagine a guild paying the DAO for a customized battle board or even having the Liquid-theme battle board.

[bright sigil]

Theme, WoW was a hardcore-bloody human vs orc. Then they sell cute pets, have Pandaria expansion, and mounts.
Our emotes are funny too. Even the ranger catch phrase is badabim badabum.
So, this "serious" narrative doesnt stand.

We have thousands of skins for ranger and drones. If the skins are applied to arena, then it wont be noticeable because the S3 illuvials are much bigger than the ranger.
If only applies to OW, it is only single-player. Generally, people buy skins to flex to others.

Marketing and collab, yes we need as many as stuff to apply the skins.

Another point, seriously we have clown nose and rave shades in our ingame PFP

[tender sierra]

multiplayer and raids are coming where people can flex with drone and ranger skins

[sacred tangle]

I’m holding out hope for a dynamic action camera option to make the viewing experience more entertaining. Like watching a fight scene in a movie

[bright sigil]

waifu skins?

[tender sierra]

I hope we never See that in illuvium 😂

[sacred tangle]

Not everyone likes ugly scifi marines, at least give me a sexy husbando butler

[nova shell]

https://tenor.com/view/black-butler-public-school-arc-kuroshitsuji-kishuku-gakkou-hen-sebastian-michaelis-wink-hello-gif-7920365847862340389

[sacred tangle]

https://tenor.com/view/manly-handshake-fma-brotherhood-fma-armstrong-armstrong-handshake-gif-16567570

Between this and our shared shika nokotan posts in leaks discussion. I think we can be good friends.

[nova shell]

haha true
my new deer friend

[bright sigil]

"now with us, that pivot is down the road, right. like it's absolutely a thing that we potentially need to do and that's just what we just talked about. saying, trying to monetize through NFTs where you actually have to pay to get these characters isn't going to work so we're gonna switch to more of a traditional gaming model of only pay for the cosmetics that you like, right. Like that's a down the road thing."

[agile nest]

What is this a quote of?

[tender sierra]

I assumed himself 😄

[bright sigil]

guess again

[agile nest]

Fraggy? (Maybe this message will summon him back...)

[bright sigil]

ok this is fun

[agile nest]

I dont think fun said that

[bright sigil]

badum tsk

[wooden flicker]

It's from Kieran with Stache interview

[tender sierra]

Worth to watch it?

[wooden flicker]

when asked about how important pivoting is.

[wooden flicker]

nah, nothing new in there.

[tender sierra]

Pivoting can be beneficial. But it can also slow down your developement massively up to a point where you have barely any product Progress because you just pivot arround

[wooden flicker]

he was basically saying that if the current model doesn't work then they'll most likely pivot to a F2P strategy overall with the NFTs only being used as cosmetics.

[fallow acorn]

Keep in mind that part of the reason it prints money is due to how successful and established Pokemon already is.

Nintendo can do just about anything with Pokemon and people will throw money at it

[bright sigil]

they are so cute

[sweet thunder]

Sad to hear this
I like this model where you pay for the illuvials, skins being at most an extra feature
But if this is what it takes..

[wooden flicker]

I think he meant it as a last resort, it's not the plan.

[brazen ferry]

It could give utility to promo NFTs. I love this guy and he could also be holo/Dark holo