Proposal for visually distinct alpha stamp to wave 1 alpha

[thick bronze]

Objective:

For Wave 1 Alpha's premium value and distinctiveness, introduce visual stamp variations to differentiate it from other Wave Alphas, ensuring uniqueness and addressing the upcoming 4× price reduction.

Background:

To justify the price paid by collectors of Wave 1 Alpha, it is crucial to visually distinguish it from upcoming, significantly cheaper Illuvitar Alphas in light of ongoing discussions about a potential 4x price reduction for Alphas in upcoming waves

Implementation plan:

• Provide visually different alpha stamp to wave 1 alpha like alpha holo stamp

• Provide visually different alpha stamp to all other wave alphas like non holo alpha stamp

Benefits:

• Validating the premium price of 4 times for Wave 1 Alpha Illuvitars and distinguishing them as unique alphas.

• Assigning the regular alpha stamp to all other wave alphas will substantiate their 1.5 times higher price compared to the regular alphas.

Ultimately, these points bring satisfaction to both Wave 1 Alpha and other wave alpha purchasers, providing proper justification for the price they have paid or will pay for alphas in future waves.

Requesting valuable input from team members on the proposal to ensure proper justification for alpha purchasers across waves. Your feedback will guide actions and benefit both Wave 1 and future wave alpha purchasers. Community feedback is welcomed and greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.

[calm aspen]

Not a bad idea at all 👍

[thick bronze]

Thanks for the feedback

[thick bronze]

Correction in benefit section point 2: (regular alphas -> regular illuvitars)

[bright oxide]

Top

[stark wind]

I think this is a really clean solution

It distinguishes Wave 1 as the Alpha of Alphas while not using an inordinate amount of dev time to do so.

[thick bronze]

Exactly

[stark wind]

3 years from now, even if players don’t know that Squizz was in Wave 1 of Set 1, they’ll immediately see the different color icon and know it was max OG status

[austere juniper]

I believe this to be technically possible as well as relatively trivial - but I'm going to double check with relevant team members.

[ember narwhal]

Personally I don't like the idea as much as changing the next waves to first edition or something other than Alphas. A different color alpha stamp for me doesn't justify for the 4X price. I don't see this as making things right for the collectors.

[dreamy gulch]

I think @calm notch is already working on something like this

more of just a distinction between

[austere juniper]

I really dislike the idea of removing 'Alpha' from future waves permanently and adding yet another 'variation' or indicator.

We should work to make Alpha something that people aspire to collect, not bury it in the backyard.

I think it's a foolish endeavor to try to 'make things right' every step of the way. Illuvium has a decade+ long journey ahead of it and if we stop to 'make things right' every week we're going to constantly hamstring progress.

This suggestion is as Ani says, a clean solution that distinguishes Wave 1 as the Alpha of Alpha's without using an inordinate amount of dev time.

[ember narwhal]

I agree with you in general. But personally it is a lot different when there was a lot of backlash/pushback about alpha pricing and there was townhalls with founders pushing why their pricing is correct. But to then say, sorry we are going to make mistakes. In this case a significant mistake by 4X. Here is a different colour stamp for your over payment. It doesn't sit well with me. yes it is my fault for drinking the koolaid but definitely going to be gun shy moving forward. Thanks for listening. The team and council will do their thing and I will make decisions based on their actions.

[austere juniper]

Yeah I get where you're coming from also

The proposal wasn't rushed, we have been speaking about it constantly in council discussions

I think we're all torn (because we care about everyone that participated in Wave 1 including ourselves) but trying to make the best decision to ensure Beyond is successful for the next decade

[sour robin]

I agree. Removing alphas from future waves is not the way to go.
I would just like to state clearly on record that I am 100% against that idea.

[austere juniper]

Yeah, appreciated @sour robin I was reading your replies in Beyond chat earlier

I like @thick bronze suggestion here and will return with confirmation it's technically possible.

Ultimately if we can onboard millions to the games and potentially a portion of those players become Beyond Collectors (as a means to Collect and to unlock the Soul-bound Achievement Rewards) I do believe we see those same collectors buying up the supply of Set 1 Wave 1.

In any case, let's keep talking about it - I'm really hoping for a decision from the IMC by the end of this week as we need to begin implementing the agreed changelist from next week.

[thick bronze]

Thanks @austere juniper. I hope that we get some good conclusion points based on our long discussions in different channels recently

[austere juniper]

Agree 🙂

[sour robin]

@thick bronze - I voted up, I think it's a great idea 👍

The Alpha of Alphas.

[grizzled lake]

Really really good idea 💯🙌

[thick bronze]

Thanks @sour robin

[thick bronze]

Thanks @grizzled lake . I hope it comes out better for majority of us as solution.

[iron merlin]

Personally I don’t think this addresses anything. If the thing that makes wave 1 more valuable is that they are wave 1 because they are more expensive then people will look for “wave 1”.

This seems to add more chance of the colour not looking good on certain illuvitar. More colours definitely makes it harder.

And while this isn’t a large amount of work, I would strongly suggest we wait and see. We don’t have alpha icons yet, and they can be adjusted if need be. Before we do this can we just wait a wave and see if it is needed?

[thick bronze]

We can keep the stamp color the same for all alpha holders, but we can offer a holographic version of the stamp to wave 1 alpha holders as a way to thank them for their early support and justify their premium price

[iron merlin]

And if the holo graphic logo is hard to see? Or if people say “so this is a holo?”

On a holo I can imagine that will look really confusing.

Almost invis.

[thick bronze]

I can't comment on how it will look as we haven't seen the normal alpha stamp yet.

[iron merlin]

What? Why not?

[thick bronze]

I mean to say that i can't imagine yet on how alpha holo stamp will look as i haven't seen normal alpha stamp yet and i dont know how they will look... we might need to wait for the normal alpha stamp to decide about holo version. Just my thinking 🤔

[iron merlin]

That’s my thinking too. The effort isn’t much but honestly “a different colour” doesn’t seem like it will add much value so many we can add the alpha stamp. See how it looks. And then revisit this IF everyone thinks it is needed.

[torpid galleon]

So you think it should be AA? 😉

I think the base idea here is solid! Maybe the implementation will need to be reviewed further with the Team to know what is feasible and how they suggest showing better distinction...

@iron merlin - There is already plans to have the "alpha overlay" visible on the illuvidex (leak shared a while ago during a Youtube live) - Perhaps a custom or special holographic (or Dark Holographic) pattern/overlay for the Wave 1 Alphas? Of course, this would only be visible on the Illuvidex (other marketplaces would not show this feature).

[ripe lantern]

You want to make a distinction for wave 1 alphas - make this illuvitars not an image only but a gif that moves a bit. It could be something simple like a small left to right movement.

Or some sort of effect on top of the pic that's pops out wen open the image (✨ 💞 ⭐) for a moment then disappear.

[thick bronze]

Exactly what i am thinking. We can't decide what looks best but team can decide on it

[torpid galleon]

This would definately be a no go - just based on the amount of possible variations for each of the Illuvitars and then the 100,000 different accessories that could be on each one... I feel like this would be very costly/timely to implement

Or some sort of effect on top of the pic that's pops out wen open the image (✨ 💞 ⭐) for a moment then disappear.

What do you mean by this?

[ripe lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/sparkle-baby-i-wanna-see-sparkle-glitter-glint-twinkle-gif-12375440

You have your illuvitars alpha with their stamp but the wave 1 will have and extra sparkles , hearts , starts , a lot of ilv or alpha stamps poping for like a second then they disappear

[torpid galleon]

I think they mentioned there would be issues on other marketplaces vs. on illuvidex

Based on discussions around the holographic animations they thought up previously and shared during an Youtube leaks/showcase episode

[ripe lantern]

Ok so that idea is a no. What about give the Alphas wave 1 a special frame 🖼️.

[thick bronze]

Thats the reason we need to choose holo graphic image instead of animation on alpha stamp which will work universally

[calm notch]

I don't think we gonna hit the right price target even on the second shot and there probably will be some other adjustments.
Taking that into consideration, do we then make 'wave2 alpha' exclusive?
I think the main point been missed quite a lot here.
Wave1 Alpha and Wave1 sales are done. No one ever will get it, isn't that exclusive enough? Wave2 Alpha will be a complete different set that has 0 similarity with wave1.

[calm aspen]

People don't seem to like this logic

[torpid galleon]

Unique illuvitars and background- only lave to get Wave 1 is off the secondary market (D1sks or directly buying illuvitars)

I agree - since there was a finite supply, they are inherently rare.

However, Council and Team are working to avoid having to revise pricing again on subsuquent waves

[thick bronze]

It would be same situation for each wave alpha after sale is completed. They will all be exclusive in that sense in few months anyway. We are trying to jistify 4x premium price for wave 1 alpha by adding unique alpha stamp for wave 1. Team has decided to have accessible alpha for everyone to buy in limited time with cheap price and i dont think there will be need to change it in future

[calm notch]

well we also tried it with the wave1, didn't work. Now it's up in discussion for the wave2. What are the chances we hitting the right target?

I do agree though that we fucked up with the alpha originally, and should've thought about it a bit more.
In the bg atm trying also to get some alpha separation for the disks as well. (STILL EARLY WIP)

all of this extra difference just doesn't make any sense.

[calm notch]

again to oppose that, we also thought that no price change will be needed.
What I'm trying to say is:
wave1 illuvitars with default alpha stamp - already unique.
wave2 illuvitars with default alpha stamp - also will be unique.

But what you suggesting is make already unique stuff even more unique like unique squared, why?

[torpid galleon]

[calm notch]

that's why I don't like people lol

[ripe lantern]

The price difference is the issue. If you already bought and alpha for 200$ and now new alphas will cost 50$. People that already invest will get hit hard by this prince change. If they decide to keep the same old prices there is no issue

[thick bronze]

How do you justify the price differences between wave 1 alpha and wave 2 alpha? They are both same way unique but wave 1 alpha was 4x in price. In addition to that, are we expecting to sale 4x quantity of alphas as compare to wave 1 alpha in 24 hours so that it automatically justify the price?

[thick bronze]

Exactly. We have discussed this point many times in last few days. I don't know why its hard for anyone to see the issue in it.

[ripe lantern]

I actually don't know why are they discussing to changes prices, can someone give me a link so I can read why?

Wave 1 was cool 😎 or it was a flop? I know that GameStop didn't sell that well, but that's the reason ?

[dreamy gulch]

https://discord.com/channels/760344898200666112/1123089580778860624

[austere juniper]

👆 pricing discussions.

[ripe lantern]

Thanks

[calm notch]

do not compare wave1 alpha to wave2 alpha
this is my issue
they both unique in their own way and each will find it's own price on the secondary market. (for example if you hold goliant from wave1 you can set 50x the price really. No one ever will get it, unless from the secondary market)

[austere juniper]

Agree

Just because a Set 1 Wave 2 Stoic Floralynx was minted from an Alpha D1SK worth $30 doesn't devalue my Alpha Rhamphyre from Set 1 Wave 1

Because I'll price my Alpha Rhamphyre with my initial investment in-mind.

What we're proposing makes BEYOND as a product far more interesting to a wider audience, therefore you'll have more of an audience to bid/offer/buy the Set 1 Wave 1 Alpha's you hold.

Anywho, far too much work to do to continue in circles on this.

Sub Councils, Perry & Kieran are meeting tonight to discuss the IIP again. I'm leaving it with that group.

[thick bronze]

Yes. We have been discussing about this many times and it needed to be done by the team. I will leave it to team to decide on adding unique alpha stamp for wave 1 if possible now.

[ripe lantern]

One of the issue with that is that you can price your illuvial it doesn't mean people will buy it. Money is not infinite, with more waves and waves of illuvials you really think someone will pay "20k$" alpha wave 1 or just wait for day 1 and buy 5Kamount of new alpha illuvials

[thick bronze]

We are all speculating about future price here but we should only look at the facts and where we are at now and decide what is right for us.

[calm notch]

you really missing the point, goliant from wave1 is gone. DONE, NO MORE in future waves. This is what makes it unique!

same as other illuvitars from wave1

[ripe lantern]

The same will happen with wave 2-3-4-5...

[calm notch]

exactly

[thick bronze]

Yes

[calm notch]

this what sets them apart

[austere juniper]

It's comparing oranges to apples

[thick bronze]

So they all will be at same level in their uniqueness but alpha wave 1 were 4x expensive at first place and thats the point for discussion here. If they can't be compared then what factor decides the price of alpha in future?

[calm notch]

IMC and sub councils

if DAO thinks the price didn't hit on wave2, it'll be adjusted again

then what lol, we have to do a unique squared alpha for wave2?

[ripe lantern]

I really understand your point , they are different waves , different product, sold at different prices , but as I am speculating that the price will fall you are thinking that they will keep their value.

The issue here is that id that's not the case and the market doesn't think they are worth, all wave 1 alpha buyers will get reckt.

[austere juniper]

To be clear, the goal of the IMC is to ensure the pricing is accurate and doesn't require changes in the future. We don't want to make changes we want consistency.

[ripe lantern]

You (illuvium team) expect more disk sold for wave 1 ? How much under sold they where from your expectations?

[thick bronze]

It looks like wave 1 alpha holders need to just pray that they will be sold at premium price compare to other alphas. It doesn't seem like wave 1 alpha get any good solution to justify the price. I am exhausted discussing the same thing again and again. I will leave it to team and council to decide what is right for all. Thanks for discussing so far...

[austere juniper]

Appreciate you spending the time to discuss this.

We do understand where you're coming from - as I say, the vast majority of us also bought Set 1 Wave 1 Alphas. (Personally I'm holding mine, not selling)

We collectively control the supply of this first wave of Illuvitars. I know I'll be pricing mine accordinly if I ever decided to sell them.

[ripe lantern]

@austere juniper do you have some info on this ? I'm just trying to understand a bit better the situation.

[thick bronze]

Do you think that price will fluctuate 4x like wave 1 -> wave 2? @austere juniper already confirming that they would like to have consistently across all wave prices. This scenario happened because wave 1 was the first wave and now DAO deciding the pricing and keeping in mind for all upcoming waves. @austere juniper can correct me here if i am wrong.

[calm notch]

I dno tbh. A possible new price is subject for another discussion which I hope never gonna happen.

[calm notch]

DAO not selling any wave1 disks anymore. Sale is ended.

[ripe lantern]

That wasn't my question, maybe I didn't wrote it well. The wave 1 sale reach the expected income ? If yes, keep the prices as they where. If not then I can understand why all this but still don't think changing prices now is the way to go.

[calm notch]

oh ok, my bad. I don't have this info

[thick bronze]

Final thoughts from me: I believe 4x price fluctuations will never happen for future wave and that way wave 1 alpha becomes uniquely premium and needed to have atleast visually different alpha stamp to have justification visually to their premium price. I hope team/council will consider this proposal in their discussion as one of the decision factor as this proposal is already liked by many council memebers and team members. Thanks

[ripe lantern]

Thanks for your time , it was fun to debate even if it didn't get us anywhere. Hope people choosing do the best thing for the ecosystem. I got to go 😴 Goodnight, good morning, good afternoon

[ripe lantern]

No problem man, thanks for the conversation.

[iron merlin]

That's exactly what I'm disagreeing with. One icon was already hard enough to make distinct. Having a different just increases the number of clashes.

[sour robin]

My thinking was to keep this exact same stamp, but instead of purple use red. The red alpha stamp would then always be instantly recognisable as a wave 1 alpha, all subsequent waves would be purple.

[thick bronze]

I like it 👌

I have a trust on team's capability to comeup with clean stamp similar to your suggestion @sour robin . Lets wait and see the options coming from team about it.

[thick bronze]

@iron merlin and team can decide on which colour might be best suited for all wave 1 alpha illuvitars as they might need to check and make sure it looks good though. I still believe its achievable to have different color for wave 1 alpha stamp. I hope we will get this trivial implementation solution from the team and everyone will be happy on their premium priced wave 1 alpha version.

[thick bronze]

I would have to disagree on wait for a wave. It maybe too late to have it. I hope team/council will consider options for wave 1 alpha holders sooner and possibly along with wave2.

[iron merlin]

That's perfectly fine to have a disagreement.

[thick bronze]

🙏👍

[sour robin]

I also believe this to be a time sensitive issue. If the regular alpha stamp is rolled out on wave 1's, I think it would be a bad move to revisit and change this at a later date.

If this change is not agreed upon and rolled out before wave 2 alphas, I don't think it should happen.

[thick bronze]

Yes it will be very hard to change anything later for wave 1 alpha. Either do it now or maynot do it and find any other solution if possible

[ocean owl]

Personnaly I don't think making the wave 1 look a bit different really impacts anything, just the fact that they are "alpha wave1" make them OG.
My suggestion would be... Illuvium is all about the interconnection of games and web3 all about utility of assets, so add utility to the alpha wave 1 in other games :

• You possess X Alpha wave 1 you can acquire a special battleboard
• You possess X Alpha wave 1 - special skins
• You possess X Alpha wave 1 - exclusive access to OG tournaments

[sour robin]

I agree. You are right.
I just believe the "red stamp" would be a nice nod the original wave 1 Alpha investors as they did pay a huge premium and there is obviously some "discomfort" there.
If it looks good, it's cheap and easy to roll out, then why not give them this.

Personally, I am okay with whatever is decided, I just think it would be a cool thing to do.

[thick bronze]

Discomfort from alpha investors is genuine. We need to have some kind of solution for them. It could be just adding this unique stamp or something else. I hope it will be decided before wave 2 starts

[sour robin]

Absolutely.
Just have to wait and see at this point.
I hope so too.

[iron merlin]

The thought for Alphas was to give some super rare things to the people who really care about rarity, but we specifically made it so that they wouldn't have extra ulitiity. There's already enough pay to win and we wanted people to have a cheaper option that doesn't feel worse.

Again, if everyone agrees that it has to be this way, I get overruled, but I try to look after the little guy.

[ocean owl]

I agree with the rationale but as long as the added utilities are only for aesthetics (skins, battleboard) I don't think it pushes the game towards pay-to-win.
Maybe the illuvitar-gated tournaments are too excluding indeed...

[sour robin]

You make a very good point and I do believe that philosophy should be preserved.

That being the case, the stamp suggestion does now appear to be the only feasible way of potentially giving something back to those original Alpha investors. It could be this or nothing.

[sour robin]

As skins/battle boards etc are NFT's and hold value, it would still be pay to win.

[thick bronze]

An alpha stamp is being introduced to create rarity, and it will now be available to all wave alphas. However, it is necessary to give wave 1 alpha investors something unique, such as a special alpha stamp, to justify the 4x price they paid.

I still believe that a unique alpha stamp is a simple and effective way to show appreciation to investors who paid a premium price.

[sour robin]

I agree.

[pastel ridge]

have they decided how many alpha packs they are gonna put on sale for wave 2? if they increase the supply of how many alpha packs can be sold then that would help justify the price differential ....where do i get info about supply?

[thick bronze]

Nothing final yet. Most recent proposal was for 4× lower priced alpha for 24 hours unlimited mint but they are reviewing again based on community feedback and about to provide new proposal soon...

[pastel ridge]

what was the feedback? that it should be longer than 24 hours?

[thick bronze]

You need read through all the comments from this channel and other proposal channel to get an idea about people's sentiment. I can't provide summary to you. Its your judgement by reading the community feedback. Team will carefully consider all meaningful comments and come up with new proposal soon

[pastel ridge]

my feedback is that if the price is lowered for alpha, they should allow for more alpha disk sales, and that would justify the disk price differentials, and everybody should be satisified about that I would think.....what u think?

do like a 7 day alpha unlimited disk sale for wave 2

[pastel ridge]

or atleast a much higher limit then wave 1.....maybe not unlimited

i think special stamp for wave 1 would be neato too

[pastel ridge]

where is the best place to add my feeback...is it here?

[thick bronze]

You can add your feedback here. No problem

[pastel ridge]

i put this feedback somewhere else and will leave it here too

[thick bronze]

That channel is also fine. Both the channels are having discussion on linked topic.

[thick bronze]

I am also liking an option to have atleast limited quantity (may be 4x quantity of alpha wave 1) with unlimited time so it will make sure that all alpha investors will have justification to their purchase price. It means we also don't need to provide anything special to wave 1 alpha investors as the supply of alpha justify their price anyway.

[pastel ridge]

exactly..is an easy solution that would make everyone happy i think....and yes have a max supply for alpha of 4-5x higher than wave 1 with unlimited time to hit it...probably best way to do it.....and then dont lower non alpha prices because they already cheap enough for cheapest one and it would be unfair to wave 1 buyers to suddenly make t0's and accesories half the cost (and there is no easy fix to that since they are exact same in both waves)

[sour robin]

To be able to achieve 4x - 5x the sales volume of Alpha disks in wave 2 in comparison to wave 1, you would have to reduce the price significantly, as without any meaningful adoption, you are ultimately marketing to the same group of people.

You also cannot offer Alpha disks over an unlimited time period as they are a first edition and therefore cannot run concurrently with unlimited variants.
A lot of people have already voiced that they believe that a 3 day Alpha sale is already too long to wait.

You also mention unlimited disks are already cheap enough, but cheap enough for who?

Lastly, in regards to accessories... Based on the premise that prices are reduced significantly and changes are also made to leaderboard/rewards to add extra incentives, we should see higher demand for disks and accessories alike as more people are attracted to the leaderboard aspect of the game, this in turn should absorb the additional supply and help to support the prices of both illuvitars and accessories on the aftermarket. Speculative of course, but I believe logically sound.

[thick bronze]

Good points

[sour robin]

Thanks.
Completely unrelated but your Squizz is

[thick bronze]

Thanks @sour robin 😊

[pastel ridge]

to answer your first couple statements.....it would work perfectly this way because they are alpha and they are the first released......and you could still have the sale going on while you release the non alpha versions, they are still the alpha versions, just make sure that they were at a higher price point than the non alphas and that they were realeased first........there is no issue with them still being on sale until a max cap is reached even when the non alpha sale starts, as long as they are priced more expenisve than non alpha and put on sale first.....would be the same as how you can buy both non alpha and alpha off the secondary market right now....alpha is alpha and non alpha is non alpha............also about the accecories and t0's...demand increasing is besides the point...for example....i bought a ton of non alpha standard disks for the pretty the sole purpose of t0's and accesories and i bought a bunch of single accessories and t0's off the secondary market as well....if they are all of a sudden half the price in the next wave i will feel not happy about it because i could have got them at half price regardless if demand picks up or not eventually...it is a bad precedent to set i think to purposely do something where you can cut the price in half with no other changes to make up for screwing the original buyers.....this will keep people out of the market and scared to buy anything if drastic changes like that are made. Atleast with everything else that happens with price change you can fix by changing the supply since the illuvitars are all unique and that would be a reasonable change to make that doesnt screw anyone. doesnt work that way for accesories and t0 though....sooo thats my 2 cents on it

[pastel ridge]

alphas should be half price of what they were and bigger supply.......and non alphas should remain same price....thats my view...it caters to the whales and the non whales and every body should be happy.......

[sour robin]

and you could still have the sale going on while you release the non alpha versions, they are still the alpha versions

If the Alpha sale did run concurrently, some unlimited variants would be minted before the Alpha variants, making those alphas not first editions at all, at least some. Very messy and misleading.

just make sure that they were at a higher price point than the non alphas

What is the justification for offering Alphas at a higher price point, and who does it benefit?

i bought a ton of non alpha standard disks for the pretty the sole purpose of t0's and accesories and i bought a bunch of single accessories and t0's off the secondary market as well....if they are all of a sudden half the price in the next wave i will feel not happy about it

Tier 0 illuvitars will have a different background set in wave 2, making wave 1 tier 0's unique.
This should help to support their value/collectibility/desirability into the future. Nothing is guaranteed of course, but it is something that the team did to protect those early investors of the original tier 0's such as yourself.

it is a bad precedent to set i think to purposely do something where you can cut the price in half with no other changes to make up for screwing the original buyers

Like the example I mention above regarding the wave 2 tier 0's, and also the new achievement/leaderboard changes that are being hinted at. The decision to reduce the price of disks is not happening in a vacuum. I am confident that most all of the potential implications of making that decision are being tentatively considered, both positive and negative, with the aim to provide the best possible outcome for all involved. Inevitably this will lead to some compromises having to be made for the best interests of the project as a whole.

[torpid galleon]

Appreciate reading the back on forth and mainly the feedback - it seems as though this post and the other keep overlapping a lot...

PS @sour robin you can use "> (+space)" if you wanted to show the comment you are quoting:

Completely unrelated but your Squizz is 🔥

100% agree!! Same with your PFP Alexa

Perhaps if Marketing submits another revision, we can find a way to group all the comments

[pastel ridge]

"If the Alpha sale did run concurrently, some unlimited variants would be minted before the Alpha variants, making those alphas not first editions at all, at least some. Very messy and misleading." This also happens right now in wave 1, it is no different, many non alpha versions have been minted first and you can still buy and open new alpha disks right now and mint new alphas right now...new cards arent decided on or minted until the d1sk is open...so nothing would change of this aspect.........alphas were released first...thats all that matters. and honestly that doesnt even matter that much....the alpha tag could just as well be swapped for a "collectors edition" tag and would serve the same purpose "What is the justification for offering Alphas at a higher price point, and who does it benefit? " the collectors edition version should obviously be more expensive....thats how everything works with special edition stuff...is more designed to cater towards people who care about obtaining luxury items and rarity/scarcity

[sour robin]

you can use "> (+space)" if you wanted to show the comment you are quoting:
Thanks. Noted

[pastel ridge]

and oh i did not know that about the different backgrounds for the tier 0's but that is good news and definitely good idea by them 👍

[pastel ridge]

so i guess its down to just the devaluing of the accesories i wouldnt like by making them much cheaper to obtain.....maybe they could solve this by (if the packs are half cost) making all the harder to get accesories double as hard to get or something like that...like basically make 10% power booster accersories and above double as hard to get

best thing i can think of as of now

[sour robin]

I refer to what I previously stated:

Lastly, in regards to accessories... Based on the premise that prices are reduced significantly and changes are also made to leaderboard/rewards to add extra incentives, we should see higher demand for disks and accessories alike as more people are attracted to the leaderboard aspect of the game, this in turn should absorb the additional supply and help to support the prices of both illuvitars and accessories on the aftermarket. Speculative of course, but I believe logically sound.

[pastel ridge]

Yes higher demand would be expected in future whether packs were 5 or 10 dollars....point is though.......if people bought accesories this wave they basically get screwed because next wave if they cut price in half for non alpha standard you are paying half the price to pull accesories at the same odds and the biggest draw to those packs is the accesories........so whether they go up in price after sales of disks come to end doesn't solve the issue of the accesories being basically half the cost during the disk sales

so basically you coulda just saved you money and waited for wave 2 and got double the accesories at the same price...so thats why i hope and think non alpha standard disk most importantly should remain same price because those were basically the disks that were bought mainly to obtain accesories

only non alpha standard disks i think is important to stay same price .....the lowering of price and increasing of supply of the other d1sk types i agree with

[sour robin]

if people bought accesories this wave they basically get screwed because next wave if they cut price in half for non alpha standard you are paying half the price to pull accesories at the same odds and the biggest draw to those packs is the accesories

Valid point.

[pastel ridge]

👍

[jovial rock]

What if we change the value after the second wave again, should those alphas have yet again a different alpha stamp?

What if there was an IMX outage on the 3rd wave, should those alphas have another variant?

[thick bronze]

The team/council have acknowledged that the price of alpha is being adjusted to make it more affordable for everyone. They plan to reduce the price of alpha d1sks by at least 4 times the price of wave 1 alpha d1sks. This decision was made to make alpha more accessible to everyone, and the team has acknowledged that they plan to keep the price the same for all future alphas.

We are asking for a unique alpha stamp for wave 1 alphas because they were 4 times more expensive than upcoming alpha waves. This stamp would be a way to recognize the early supporters of the project and to show that they have a unique piece of alpha history.

[thick bronze]

I am confused about the IMX outage. I believe that if there is a genuine outage, the team will postpone or extend the alpha sale. I do not see any issue with an outage during the alpha sale.

[sour robin]

What if we change the value after the second wave again, should those alphas have yet again a different alpha stamp?

You make a fair point, which is why I support equal pricing (Alpha+-Unlimited), so we never have to revisit the repricing of Alphas ever again. The pricing will always be fair and accessible to all, just limited by time.
If the wave 1 Alpha launched at the same price as unlimited, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

If the unique wave 1 stamp does get approved, providing we also go with equal pricing, this issue may never need arise again in the future.

10 years down the line when people look back and wonder why the wave 1 alphas have a unique stamp, it will be a be a part of illuvium history to be proud of. It was a way of the team giving something back to the early Alpha investors that paid a huge premium.

[thick bronze]

100% agree here with @sour robin

[sour robin]

[pastel ridge]

I am not in favor of equal pricing....alpha should remain the higher end luxury item by price point and not just psychologically...the whole point of alpha and non alpha already is to cater to both side of the spectrum of collectors...also if they make them the same price people will be way less inclined to buy the the non alpha versions because people will feel like shit paying the same price that people paid for alpha....why would people wanna buy non alpha when they could buy alpha for same price? now imagine what would happen.......alpha and non alpha is same price....everybody stocks up on alpha and almost nobody touches non alpha....now you have a way higher supply of alpha cards compared to non alpha cards making non alpha cards way rarer than alpha.......which is completely backwards to how it actually should be. So I must say I would strongly disagree taking that course and think it would be very bad idea....I enjoy paying a higher price to chase the higher end collectors cards....as I'm sure others do too...and changing that dynamic would ruin that for me and others....so this plan would not actual be equal and fair to all because it would leave out the desires of people like me... annnnnnnd thats my rant hope you enjoyed

[sour robin]

why would people wanna buy non alpha when they could buy alpha for same price?

They would not have a choice as Alpha disks would only be available for 24 hours. After that point, you would either have pay a premium for an Alpha from the secondary market or purchase an unlimited disk.

Also, if you was going after leaderboard achievements/rewards, would you rather bond an alpha or an unlimited?
If you go all in on Alphas, you would have to open those disks and bond them, or buy unlimited variants from the secondary market to bond, or you would have to strategise a way of splitting your funds across Alpha and unlimited.
Regardless of your decision the demand for unlimited disks/illuvitars would certainly be there, as like you say, the Alphas are a collectible/limited item and all things being equal, you would never choose to bond an Alpha when an unlimited is available.

I enjoy paying a higher price to chase the higher end collectors cards

This would not change. The rare cards would still be difficult and expensive to pull and would still command a high price on the secondary market.
Even with the same odds as wave 1, pulling a Rhamphyre equivalent is still 1 in 1000 disks. At $30 a pop for an Alpha mega, that still isn't cheap by any means.

annnnnnnd thats my rant hope you enjoyed

[pastel ridge]

i like the dilemma of people having to make the decision of what and when to bond and having to strategize that type of thing makes it way funner if you might have to sacrifice an alpha for leaderboard.....and also.....if for instance as your example...if alpha sale was 24 hours or however long......everybody who barely missed the sale for whatever reason would feel alot worse paying what people had just paid for the alpha versions and might not even buy the non alpha versions just for the simple fact that they just missed out on buying the alphas at the same price and just say "screw this i'll just wait for next wave, non alphas are a terrible investment". It would have some consequences i think that you arent thinking about. Non alphas would now become a much worse investment than the alpha packs and people will shy away from buying them and it will decrease the amount of possible non alpha sales (and overall sales because alpha would be capped) the illuvium company could possibly acquire because of that fact. So this would hurt illuvium sales every single wave and just that fact alone I would think they wouldnt do it. Besides that I feel like why are things trying to be rearranged to be so much more complicated and differnt than wave 1? wave 1 was just about perfect, only some small adjustments need to be made, if it aint broke dont fix it, wave 1 was a success

[old ermine]

The one thing about making the Set 1 Wave 1 stand out in some way, is that you can lower the price for the rest of the set (game not released, bear market) but still have the option of popping it back to around $200 for Set 2 Wave 1. After game release, more people buying, more revenue. Or not, but it leaves the option open to do it.

[sour robin]

for the simple fact that they just missed out on buying the alphas at the same price and just say "screw this i'll just wait for next wave, non alphas are a terrible investment".

Some may say this, but they could not be more wrong.
Unlimited disks retailed for $50 (approx), they are now pushing $90 (approx) aftermarket. A decent profit by anyones standards.
The largest ever sale was an unlimited Rhamphyre ($50k approx). This was not an anomaly, as most of the largest sales are and continue to be unlimited variants.
The simple fact that you could potentially pull a $50k illuvitar out of a $20 (future pricing) disk is massively appealing and this doesn't even factor in leaderboard rewards etc.
I think you are seriously underestimating the opportunity and appeal that unlimited disks provide.

wave 1 was just about perfect

Far too many people disagree, making change inevitable. It's just a case of what changes would best suit everyone, but like I said previously, there will be compromises and you cannot please everyone, so we all have to be prepared not be totally satisfied with the outcome.

[pastel ridge]

the overall sales would plummet...it is a guarantee.......there is only reason being given to not buy non alpha packs (there is zero reason your suggestion would increase non alpha pack sales)...........for instance I would never buy non alpha packs, because alpha packs would become a way way better investment opportunity....so there is 1 less person in the market...anyone who is buying only for the investment side would not wanna touch non alpha packs (i am buying both for investing and the fun...both must align for me because im not rich)....even though they would most likely still be profitable in the future you would not waste funds on a much tinier chance of making profit than you would with alphas. There is not 1 reason that people would wanna buy more 'non alpha' packs as compared to now, only reasons to buy less.....that is a guaranteed setup to plummet sales and its not a maybe.

[pastel ridge]

"Far too many people disagree, making change inevitable. It's just a case of what changes would best suit everyone, but like I said previously, there will be compromises and you cannot please everyone, so we all have to be prepared not be totally satisfied with the outcome." Yes it needs to best suit everyone, that is the suggestions I have made already, ones that best suit everyone and not just me and not just you and not just other people.....if I had it my way I would say keep everything the same as wave 1 but i never said that because I think they could make some small changes to please some other groups of voices that arent satisfied....but at the same time they cant just listen to 1 group of people .....and alot of people I see commenting who are in the decision making process already commented they are looking for a good balance for everyone.....which is good. Also at the same time you cant listen to every group of people who wants something (20 friends could come here who have never been involved in the project and havent spent a dollar on anything and they could all suggest to make wave 3 all a bunch of various pictures of garbage cans, should their opinions be given much weight ? not really...smart decisions have to be made as well as finding a fair balance)

[sour robin]

the overall sales would plummet...it is a guarantee

Can I have access to your crystal ball please.
I joke

there is zero reason your suggestion would increase non alpha pack sales

This is false. There is objective data to suggest that the implementation of leaderboard/rewards directly increased demand for disks/illuvitars/accessories etc. Therefore is it a safe logical assumption that increasing the leaderboard to accommodate more people, along with offering more attractive rewards, that this would only help to further boost the demand for said products.

anyone who is buying only for the investment side would not wanna touch non alpha packs

That would be their prerogative, but I just provided multiple examples of how unlimited variants have and continue to outperform alpha variants, both during wave 1 and now beyond.

i am buying both for investing and the fun...both must align for me because im not rich

The Alphas are available for investment purposes. A time sensitive sale would ensure their limited quantity and investability.
They will also be much more accessible as not many people are rich, therefore they need to be more affordable to have a broader appeal.
The unlimited variants are more targeting the "fun" aspect of the game, as like I previously stated, not many people will be prepared to open and bond their alpha illuvitars, as they appeal more to the collectable aspect of the game.

even though they would most likely still be profitable in the future you would not waste funds on a much tinier chance of making profit

Even though, albeit in current market conditions, the unlimited variants have proven to be the more profitable investment.

if I had it my way I would say keep everything the same as wave 1 but i never said that because I think they could make some small changes to please some other groups of voices that arent satisfied

I don't believe that it is "some other groups" at this point, it is looking like the majority that aren't satisfied. I would take a guess and say that it is the minority that are requesting little to no change at this point.

20 friends could come here who have never been involved in the project and havent spent a dollar on anything and they could all suggest to make wave 3 all a bunch of various pictures of garbage cans, should their opinions be given much weight ? not really...smart decisions have to be made as well as finding a fair balance

This is ultimately why all final decisions are at the discretion of the council/team.

[sour robin]

You are going off track.....I said there is zero reason that the suggestion of the equal pricing would benefit sales and you replied something about the leaderboard impacting sales....i wasn't saying anything about leaderboard i was talking about the suggestion for equal pricing

It is all connected. As I stated earlier, no singular decision is happening in a vacuum. You have to consider the implications of these decisions and then what changes may be necessary to circumvent any potential undesired outcomes.

The purpose of equal pricing is to provide fairness and accessibility to all, whilst also removing any and all expectations of a premium product, whilst simultaneously removing the need to address Alpha pricing in the future.

If as you believe, we do see a reduction in volume for unlimited disks due to this change (not yet seeing any arguments to support this). That is why I suggest making leaderboard/reward upgrades, as we know that this will have a positive impact on demand across the entire market, as this has been observed with the previous leaderboard rollout.

As you have made perfectly clear, if pricing was to be the same for both products you would not purchase the unlimited variants. Does this mean that you would not participate in the leaderboard rankings during wave 2? or woud you bond your Alpha illuvitars to still compete?

Not a single one outperforms an alpha because of the fact it is a non alpha

Of course not for the fact that they are non alpha, purely due to market conditions. Which is why people want to change those conditions.

[torpid galleon]

We seem to have deviated quite alot from the original proposal of a "visibly different stamp for Alpha Wave 1" and shifted heavily into pricing and speculative long term value....

Alot of these discussions may be better suited in #1123089580778860624

[sour robin]

The whole purpose of having non alpha versions is to give people cheaper versions of the cards/packs so that it is more accesible

Why shouldn't Alpha be accessible to all?

[sour robin]

I think you are right.
Apologies
I will leave it there.

[torpid galleon]

It's alright - the other proposal is more focused on pricing and more actively monitored right now as the updated ICCP is being worked on 😀

[sour robin]

Wow slow down, we're moving thread 😂 .
We've gone too far off topic 👍

[sour robin]

I apologise. This will be my last post unless specifically addressing the topic at hand.

Okay, I will address the 10,000 Rhamphyres 😅
No I would not support this change and I don't think your example is analogous.

Firstly, when I open a disk, I receive the exact same odds as everyone else opening the same disk type. Making the chances of receiving any particular illuvitar the exact same as anyone else, thus making them fair for all.
Secondly, dumping 10,000 Rhamphyre onto the market for $1 after effectively holding a lottery with a $50 entry price to compete for one, is the antithesis of fair.

and dont take it as a personal thing but you are very confusing to me

Don't worry, it's fine
Now let's get out of here before we get banned .

[sour robin]

you are okay with not everything being accessible to everyone when it is beneficial to your circumstance

Absolute nonsense. I clearly explained my reasoning as to why I would not support such a change.
Instead of addressing my argument, you simply disregard it and begin to bring into question my "selfish" motives.

dont take it as a personal thing but you are very confusing to me

Maybe the reason that you are so confused is that you are looking for selfish motivations and find none.
Most of my suggestions actually go against my own self interests (short term), as the health of the project as a whole is far more important. If Beyond is successful we all stand to benefit long term.

I genuinely believe that my suggestions are to the benefit of the project and everyone involved. You may disagree, that's fine, but post your arguments and your reasoning/justifications, don't come at me with this bullshit.

I apologise again for a completely unrelated post, but due to the nature of the previous statement I felt that I was obligated to respond.

[sour robin]

🤦‍♂️ The irony

[grizzled lake]

People will tend to be buying more non alpha disk to bond them to climb leaderboard instead of doing with alpha. Anyway 😊 ( BACK to the TOPIC) changing the colour on the alpha stamp for just the very first one- is a really great idea. Is adding more content and value and history. There are other successful trading card already doing such things and proven the possibility. Such as : MTG Alpha ( black borders)

[sour robin]

Why would I not bond alphas when they are the same cost as non alphas?
I would spend all the money I was gonna spend on only alpha packs and not buy any non alpha disks if they were same price as non alphas

Do you see it?

[grizzled lake]

I actually think is a good idea for same pricing. I would still buy unlimited disk to bond.

[bright oxide]

yes, people would feel very dumb to miss the alpha sale and then rather spend nothing

yes with alpha = nonalpha price we will see first day heavy buyers and you cant tell me that there will be more non alphas than alphas

so non alphas will be more rare thats shit

no i dont read all the messages here sorry but im with you

[grizzled lake]

(majority of investors arent gonna miss out on a lambo for 1000 dollars and then just say oh well i will just buy this ford focus for 1000 dollars instead)

Why would anyone stick objects all over their Lambo and leave the focus in pristine condition. That makes zero sense.

[sour robin]

majority of investors arent gonna miss out on a lambo for 1000 dollars and then just say oh well i will just buy this ford focus for 1000 dollars instead

Bad analogy. They are both "Lambos", one just happens to have a 1st edition sticker on it.
It's the exact same product.

[grizzled lake]

Because one is collectable. And the other isn’t

[sour robin]

people pay alot more for a GUCCI label on a white t-shirt even though its same product as one with no label

Yet another terrible analogy 😆 .
I think it's fairly clear that this is a waste of time at this point.
The two aren't even comparable. None of them have been.

[grizzled lake]

Say if they both exact same price, then why would you go all in in Alphas rather than unlimited? 🤨

[thick bronze]

I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the unique alpha stamp for wave 1 alpha. What do you think of it now that we have a better understanding of the normal alpha implementation? Everyone pls 🙏

[grizzled lake]

Is really really really good! Like it a lot!!! 💯

[sour robin]

Has it been confirmed that this Alpha badge is the standard rollout and not a unique wave 1 badge?

[thick bronze]

I have asked in illuvium beyond channel and @calm aspen responded that it is a standard rollout and not specific to wave 1 alpha

[grizzled lake]

😢

[sour robin]

Ah right ok, thanks for for confirming.
I thought the purple stamp was the standard stamp, so was kind of hopeful that the gold stamp was the wave 1 unique stamp.
All good though, I do like it.

I don't think it is as appealing now to change this stamp, now it has already rolled out.

[grizzled lake]

😭

[thick bronze]

You are right. I was also having the same impression that alpha stamp would be purple stamp. I dont mind them keeping the golden stamp atleast for wave 1 alpha and maybe implement original purple color stamp for all other wave alphas. Golden stamp does look unique.

[sour robin]

That could still be the move and I would still support that.

[grizzled lake]

Me too will support that 💪🏼

[thick bronze]

@austere juniper , what are your thoughts on the above discussion?

[thick bronze]

The team is highly capable of selecting the best possible colors for alpha stamps. I have full confidence in their ability to come up with the two best colors. However, we need to get this proposal passed before we can start thinking about the chosen colors.

[sour robin]

Absolutely. We still need 3 more votes dont we?

[thick bronze]

I am not sure on that but i heard somewhere that you need 25 votes atleast to consider the proposal. I hope we get more votes soon. 😀

[sour robin]

Surely we can get another 3

[sour robin]

2 now ......... 1........ Lets go.

[thick bronze]

💯

Where are those alpha holders? This is for you... 🙂

[supple ravine]

unpopular opinion, I don't like the alpha stamp besides the fact that now I can visually identify what's alpha. If changing the color of the stamp makes you guys feel your money was well spent by all means push for it. For me I rather have my illuvitars clean without that stamp.

[sour robin]

No worries, appreciate you leaving the feedback 👍 .

[thick bronze]

I am wondering if we are still expecting a refined proposal for wave 2 pricing, including any adjustments for wave 1 alpha holders. I had understood that we were planning to have a new proposal ready this week, but I am not sure of the latest update. @austere juniper , any updates?

[thick bronze]

👍

[lethal robin]

From reading through, I feel like the main issue is some people feel buying wave1 at a higher price point is unfair?
Perhaps people who participated in Wave1 can be given something as a thank you for their support.
Like 1 extra disk per amount?

[sudden flicker]

There will be a proposal for the alpha pricing. Relevant council, IMC, and team are aligning on this.

[thick bronze]

We had some suggestions in that line from @potent viper and people actually liked it but it didn't progress further...

[lethal robin]

Okay I'll check them out. I'm in line with thinking wave 1 is distinct enough. Yet perhaps it could be discussed further.
I feel like it's more about feeling respected than the actual product.

That's what I get from the conversation.

[thick bronze]

Sure 🙂

[lethal robin]

lol

[thick bronze]

I believe that we should show appreciation to these early supporters by giving them a unique alpha stamp or some other kind of compensation if unique alpha stamp is not given.

[grizzled lake]

👍🏻

[sour robin]

i think we should get 1 wave 2 alpha disk per wave 1 alpha card we own...that would be 🔥 ....imagine the hype that would ensue... lets fugging do this!!!!!!!!

From one day arguing that we must have a higher price point on a "premium" product, to the very next day advocating to give them away for free, on mass. Consistent as always.

Personally, I really don't like the idea of compensation.
The unique (colour) stamp for wave 1, as a one time deal, I do support, but it could be argued that this in of itself is a form of compensation and I wouldn't be surprised if this acts as a bit of a road block.
We did achieve the 25 votes necessary, so we do get to find out one way or the other. @thick bronze Congrats!

Whichever outcome you are rooting for, good luck! 👍 .

[thick bronze]

As this proposal, i prefer unique alpha stamp as the primary choice... lets see if this proposal get passed by council/team. 🙂 thanks @sour robin

[sour robin]

[plain fractal]

It was, then it wasn't. We tested a few different options right up until selection. Ultimately the gold one was preferred.
Team won't be worrying about wave specific stamps until we have to!

[sour robin]

No worries, thanks for clarifying, I appreciate it.

[torpid galleon]

25 UPVOTES RECEIVED - Reviewing and will get back shortly 👍

[hexed drift]

Haven't read trough this whole thing so sorry if it was brought forward already.

But wouldn't it make more sense to keep this color for all alpha waves (it clearly is the best one). And just change the alpha symbol for all future waves (1st edition, other (disguished) greek letter, roman number, ILV logo...)?

People were 'complaining' about the semantics of "Alpha" anyway. So problem solved without sacrificing aesthetics and color schemes.

[thick bronze]

🙏

[thick bronze]

The team wants to use the alpha symbol for all waves to avoid confusion. Therefore, we only have the option to change the color of the stamp between wave 1 and other waves. I believe alpha waves can't have different symbols as they are all alphas.

Response from google bard 🙂

Here are some specific color stamps that go well with most backgrounds:

Black: Black is a classic choice that goes with everything. It can be used to create a subtle or dramatic effect, depending on the desired look.

White: White is another versatile color that can be used to create a variety of effects. It is often used to highlight other colors or to create a clean, modern look.

Gray: Gray is a neutral color that can be used to create a sophisticated or understated look. It is often used in combination with other colors to create a more balanced look.

Blue: Blue is a calming color that can be used to create a relaxing or serene atmosphere. It is often used in combination with other colors, such as white or gray, to create a more balanced look.

Yellow: Yellow is a cheerful color that can be used to create a happy or optimistic atmosphere. It is often used in combination with other colors, such as blue or green, to create a more vibrant look.

Fyi, council/team

[torpid galleon]

@thick bronze would it be alright to send you a private message? This will be to discuss next steps - thank you 🙂

[thick bronze]

Sure thanks

[torpid galleon]

Since the 25 upvotes have been achieved for this Idea/proposal, it is time to move to the next steps.

As the OP for this proposal, how would you like to proceed? Some options below:

• Would you like to have this moved to a vote as-is (no changes)?
• Do you want to make any revisions based on feedback received in this forum?
• Community Sub-Council can update this into standard format if you would like?

Due to the ICCP for “Refining the Parameters of Illuvium Beyond” not yet being passed, would you like to wait to see those results first? Your proposal’s fundamental premise revolves heavily on this ICCP and based on what gets passed might heavily impact potential changes you may want to make in yours.
Either way, the choice will ultimately be yours 😊

[thick bronze]

Would you be able to consider our agreed-upon approach from our private chat as we move forward?

[torpid galleon]

Correct! As a quick update to others following this idea/proposal:

The CSC will be assisting the OP with formating (ICCP standardized format) and consider some of the valuable feedback shared by the community.

We will get back shortly with more updates in the coming days.

As always, appreciate everyone sharing their feedback and taking the time to be participate

[sour robin]

👍

[thick bronze]

This is genuine point as we are planning to reduce prices for wave 2 drastically compare to wave 1 and keeping accessories same as wave 1 will devalue accessories and maybe bonded illuvitar more as now people will get rare accessories more easily... team need to think about rarity of accessories if they are planning to reduce price drastically in upcoming wave @calm aspen @torpid galleon

[calm aspen]

I agree bringing down pricing on disk will devalue accessories but I dont agree that bonded Illuvitars will be devalued since the added power from accessories is the same.

[torpid galleon]

Appreciate the information, but this is more related to the #1123089580778860624 rather than this proposal (Visual Distinct Wave 1 Alpha Stamp)

[thick bronze]

Yes. Just wanted to point out so that it get considered in other proposal of pricing of wave 2

[torpid galleon]

This is not relevant to this proposal #1123318798712315915 .... please share these thoughts in #1123089580778860624.
I believe these are important thoughts and feedback to share in the relevant Forums

[jovial rock]

Let’s not make the team delay anything else over this please. 25 people currently care about this.

[austere juniper]

Good morning everyone.

FYI, we are not be in a position to go-live with the updated Alpha Illuvitar Logo for Wave 2 onward until shortly after the Wave 2 sale starts.

We will push an update once Set 1 Wave 2 is live.

What this means is everyone will have the gold Alpha Logo for the first week or two, but rest assured this will be updated post-haste.

[thick bronze]

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to it...

[old ermine]

Thanks for letting us know.

[austere juniper]

🫡

[thick bronze]

Any updates on this one ?

[austere juniper]

Good morning mate, yep it's being actively worked on.

Sorry I was OOO a few days last week

We have a few back to back deployments we're getting through, but the work is mostly complete.

[austere juniper]

@thick bronze was the Alpha Icon for Wave 1 Illuvitars shared here?

I haven't seen it, but perhaps someone previously shared?

[thick bronze]

I was having an impression that we will be having a different color than current alpha icon for all other wave alpha illuvitars, isn't that true?

[austere juniper]

Alpha Wave 1 is a White Marble

The image above doesn't do it justice

[thick bronze]

Oh ok. So wave 1 alpha will have marble white and rest of alphas will have the current colour alpha stamp. I thought we are keeping gold alpha stamp for wave 1 alpha and the new colour for rest of the alphas

[bright oxide]

how to deliver the iip without changing much

[plain fractal]

Its a different colour, wasn't that what was asked for?

[thick bronze]

I dont suggest anything as team is more capable of selecting right colour for wave 1 alpha. I only want to say that wave 1 alpha is so much expensive as compare to any other future wave and colour should reflect its premium price.

[austere juniper]

Once you see the Wave 1 Alpha Icon in higher resolution (we're currently working on serving Illuvitar images in a much higher res in the near future) you'll see that the white marble looks quite premium

I much prefer it to the gold personally

[thick bronze]

Now it looks much clear and premium 😍

[sour robin]

99.99% of people will never know the difference.
Majority of pfp's will be viewed in game, when matching and on leaderboard, not in high resolution format.
Disappointing.

[bright oxide]

with all respect this looks like the smallest change thats possible and looks like you the team dont really want a visible distinction

[calm aspen]

The proposal was for a different color for wave one, the team not only did that they added a marble look to it. What else can they do?

[hexed drift]

I don't hate it, but how is this not implemented yet?

[sour robin]

The proposal actually asked for a "visually distinct" alpha stamp, which this is not.

[jovial rock]

You guys need to chill. The price you paid was the price you decided was fine to pay. The team have done you a solid by listening and making an update. They’re not going to dramatically change the style of the Illuvitar so you can flip for a higher price. You wanted something distinct and this is it. They are the first batch after all.

Let the team work on more important matters like the games so they can draw in players and increase the price of your Illuvitars.

[untold pumice]

Good idea, thanks to the team for implementing a solution, I’m exclusively wave 1 alpha coming at it purely as a collectooooor.

[sour robin]

You guys need to chill

From what I can see everyone has been chill.

The team have done you a solid by listening and making an update

I would personally have to disagree with this.
Based on the outcome, I don't believe they have listened or completed the objective of providing a visually distinctive Alpha stamp.
Everyone that I have shown the stamps to for comparison cannot recognise the difference unless pointed out, and even then, it's underwhelming to say the least.

They’re not going to dramatically change the style of the Illuvitar so you can flip for a higher price

I think it's disingenuous to generalise wave 1 Alpha buyers in this way. Most of which are loyal, long term holders and have no intention of "flipping" for a quick profit. A new Alpha stamp wouldn't even allow them to do this.

Let the team work on more important matters like the games so they can draw in players and increase the price of your Illuvitars.

Let's be real here, the team are redesigning a small graphic.
How much time is this really taking away from other tasks.

[bright oxide]

it looks better than the gold one. But i thought that the color would be completly different like Blue or something. With this you cant even see the distinction on the illuvium profile Picture. And even on bigger images like tokentrove or illuvialmaster this would not be visible.

[austere juniper]

Plenty of fair points and I empathize with you on this.

This will be deployed alongside a v3.1.0 of Illuvium Beyond featuring the Extended Leaderboard and other minor post deployment fixes.

It does consume resource to the extent that it takes Dmitriy away from working on the Illuvial NFTs for Open Beta.

Regardless of how small a change, it takes a team member away from something important and requires us to plan a deployment that includes testing in INT & UAT before a Production deployment.

While other teams may be able to push a change as small as this quickly, we have extremely tight security/deployment processes that slow us down but for good reason.

In general, while we have 150 core contributors that work their asses off and this may sound like a large team... everyone is serving a very specific purpose pushing us towards Open Beta.. everyone is working at 100% capacity or more.

While our team is large compared to many studios building in Web3, we also have operators in roles that many of those teams do not.. for example Security, PenTesting, dedicated Infrastructure Team etc.. all of this to say, we are building strong foundations which many cannot hope to achieve.

In the same respect, our team is tiny compared to AAA studios in Web2 such as Riot (obviously..) however we're holding ourself to the same standard.

[bright oxide]

if there is still a alpha border ingame in discussion i think its fine if there are these color distinctions as well.

Then leave it white for alpha 1 and do the ingame thing later and i think everybody would be happy

[austere juniper]

If the general sentiment is that we have missed the mark on the Alpha Icon for Wave 1, please raise this with the council and we will try to reprioritize and make a change.

Perhaps council can run a poll to decide the exact look and feel of the Icon so as to avoid this in the future.

[bright oxide]

its not about the stamp its about the 5x price, the wave 2 price reduction and a visible distinction. If the distinction comes in game like really visible not only if you zoom in on max or something. Thats fine. But i dont know your plans for ingame alpha overlay or if there is any

[thick bronze]

I support @sour robin on it. I also didn't recognise the big difference when first showed here along with illuvitars. I only realised proper difference in stamp when it showed in separate big image... we are not requesting compensation here for high price of wave 1 alpha but team should do something different to make them look appealing and easy to understand difference between wave 1 alpha and other alpha

[jovial rock]

There’s a filter button that you can use so people know they are wave 1 alphas.

[thick bronze]

That filter button doesn't tell you that wave 1 alpha are unique unless they are clearly visually distinct then other wave alphas... atleast it should be immediately identifiable when people use it as PFP avatar... i believe that is what @sour robin is asking.

[sour robin]

I would just like to clarify that It is not what I am asking for, it is what the community voted for.
The team has not met their objective of providing a "visually distinct" alpha stamp.
If we are to take these proposals seriously, the criteria laid out within them need to be met when they are passed.

[austere juniper]

The Feedback is specific to the Alpha Stamp (See title of thread).

The Feedback Item calls for a Visually Distinct Alpha Icon for Wave 1.

In my view, the Wave 1 Alpha Stamp is clearly distinct, whilst remaining identifiable as representing 'Alpha' status.

Can you be more specific, what are you expecting to see? Are you suggesting we create a separate logo in it's entirety? do you have a specific Color you'd like to see?

<@&1107754780744487002> perhaps you can assist in ensuring we receive a clear brief.

[jovial rock]

I’d pay extra for that well done @austere juniper

Give them an inch they will ask for a mile…

[austere juniper]

I simply can't derail Rogier and Dmitriy from what they're currently working on, if a change needs to be made, I want a clear brief so we can schedule it accordingly

[echo garnet]

According to the proposal that was approved by the OP and passed by the council. The only way that the team has altered its main intention is by making the Wave 1 Stamp White rather than Gold. According to the original proposal.

"In order to accentuate the exclusivity of Wave 1 Alpha Illuvitars, the implemented “Golden” Alpha Stamps will only be assigned to them (now referred to as “Premium Alpha Stamp”)."

Specifically in the proposal it states that the only intended change is a color difference.

"The subsequent Waves (2, 3, 4, and 5) within Set 1 will feature a visibly different coloured stamp from Wave 1. This will be referred to as the “Alpha Stamp” and will be the same colour across the remaining Waves."

In these regards the team has met the objective.

If the community is unhappy with the outcome I am more than happy to help them draft a new IIP.

[austere juniper]

Thank you, let's remove the guesswork here.

I'm all for addressing the feedback and moving forward with everyone feeling good about the outcome.

[sour robin]

Maybe if we add the clause "visually distinctive, even when not viewed under a microscope or blown up 50x".

[austere juniper]

Sure, I understand the sentiment. The Alpha Icon is the Alpha Icon though, right? The primary color is 70% of the Icon, so 70% of the Icon was changed to be distinctive.

In any case, let's move forward as I want the best result for you - Community Sub Council can take a brief, and we'll schedule it when time allows and in such a way that it doesn't cause significant impact.

[sour robin]

The Alpha Icon is the Alpha Icon though, right?

100%. I don't believe that anyone is expecting a different design of the Alpha stamp.

so 70% of the Icon was changed to be distinctive.

This is where the disagreement arises.
Every single person that I personally have shown the stamps to for comparison could not tell the difference, most, even after it being pointed out. Unless, like your later examples, you blow it up to a scale that is disproportionate to the scale that 99.9% of illuvitars will be viewed at, for the vast majority of the time.

If the new stamp was rolled out tomorrow without any word, do you think that anyone would notice? I would be prepared to wager no, but if the stamp was genuinely visually distinctive, you'd expect it to have impact upon release, even without it having to be announced.

In any case, let's move forward as I want the best result for you - Community Sub Council can take a brief, and we'll schedule it when time allows and in such a way that it doesn't cause significant impact.

Thank you, I agree that this is the best way forward.

[thick bronze]

I agree with @sour robin on stamp being so small as compare to illuvitar so no one can notice the difference easily. I would be happy if the stamp can standout by itself without saying users that its unique stamp for wave 1 alpha.

[jovial rock]

Remember only 30 people up voted this. The work is going to serve 30 that care. Possibly 20 out of those 30 are happy with this new outcome.

You paid an extra what $30 and want a totally “new” distinctive stamp? I vote no to that so I cancel out your yes vote.

Start a new feedback thread.

[sour robin]

Remember only 30 people up voted this

I am perfectly aware. 5 more than what was required to pass.

The work is going to serve 30 that care

I think this is a false assumption as not everyone is on discord and even those that are, the majority do not participate and stay on the sidelines, that much seems quite apparent.

Possibly 20 out of those 30 are happy with this new outcome

You are just plucking numbers out of the thin air here. Funny that they still land to support your own narrative though isn't it.
It's also funny how outside of council/team and yourself, I am yet to see one person from the community that is satisfied with the outcome, including the OP.

You paid an extra what $30 and want a totally “new” distinctive stamp

Hardly totally new. It's a different colour scheme that can be easily distinguishable from the original without it needing to be pointed out or viewed at a scale that no-one will ever render it at.
It really is not that difficult or time consuming.

I vote no to that so I cancel out your yes vote

Thankfully it doesn't work like that, but even if it did we'd still be at 29, well enough to pass.

[jovial rock]

I’m surprised this is getting much attention. I’m dropping off, best of luck.

Killer PFP btw!

[sour robin]

No worries, good luck.
Thanks!

[thick bronze]

We want to make sure that Wave 1 alpha purchasers feel like they are part of an elite group of early adopters. We can do this by creating a sense of exclusivity around the alpha experience by providing visual uniqueness in wave 1 alpha.

We need to make sure that the Wave 1 alpha/stamp looks and feels premium, as they were the first major investors in Illuvium Beyond and deserve to be treated well.

[jovial rock]

You’re taking it way too far. Trying to pump your bag.

[thick bronze]

Its not about pumping my bag man. I am trying to fight to justify the value of wave 1 alpha and its uniqueness.

[sour robin]

We are not asking for anything beyond what was initially proposed.

It is not about "pumping bags", but even if this was the motive, what difference would it make. The community/council voted in favour of the proposal, like it or not the proposal must be fulfilled to the satisfaction of the OP at a bare minimum.

Maintaining the integrity of this system is now a far greater concern than the stamp itself. That is how I feel about it anyway.

[thick bronze]

Can we have some votes here on the new wave 1 alpha stamp that team has introduced to us? Do you think it unique enough to distinguish from other alpha stamp when you see along with illuvitars? Its good to have some feedback from community and any suggestions that you can provide... i really appreciate your input here to have some conclusions around what we want as unique in alpha stamp for wave 1. Thanks in advance 🙏

[grizzled lake]

❌

I can’t really tell the difference till supper zoom zoom in. It needs proper contrast “visually DISTINCTIVE” as it requests at the first place on this proposal. Instead of the white marble, it should be the biggest contrast, example black, blue, purple etc.

[thick bronze]

Thanks for your feedback and suggestion.

I agree that white marble is not visually distinctive enough. It must be something eye-catching and premium look when we see it ...

[sour robin]

❌
I agree. To be visually distinctive it would need significant contrast to the original gold.
White is the smallest contrast and therefore least visually distinctive colour that could have been chosen.

Premium contrasting colours from the top of my head, ruby red, carbon black, amethyst purple.

[thick bronze]

Good points 🙂

[jovial rock]

I believe the alpha badge is just a stamp and the stamp has been made dramatically different. Anyone who’s interested in Illuvitars will know the difference. Overall yes it may be subtle though asking more from the team to update your Illuvitars so that they are “elite” or “premium” within the main collection just because they decided to lower the price is a joke and takes away from Illuvitars as a whole.

If they lower the price again should I be asking for another unique change the current alphas. Maybe not as “premium” as yours because you paid a $30 extra.

Some times prices are lowered for things we have bought in the past. During that time you were happy to pay that price so it’s on you. Not on the team. They have made a change. Asking them to go back and change it again is nonsense.

[thick bronze]

Visually distinct means "Something that is distinctive has a special quality or feature which makes it easily recognizable and different from other things of the same type."

[sour robin]

the stamp has been made dramatically different

Overall yes it may be subtle though

Your bias is clouding your judgement, but it is good to see some honestly reveal itself within your contradictory statement.

asking more from the team to update your Illuvitars so that they are “elite” or “premium”

Direct statements from the original proposal:

"For Wave 1 Alpha's premium value and distinctiveness"
"introduce visual stamp variations to differentiate it from other Wave Alphas"
"ensuring uniqueness"

Once again, we are only requesting the features that were voted on and passed by community and council, nothing more, nothing less.

[jovial rock]

The stamp’s change is distinct and can easily be differentiated.

[jovial rock]

Your bias is clouding your judgement, but it is good to see some honestly reveal itself within your contradictory statement.

No what you have is self-interest bias where you have a subjective interpretation of the result. I have no agenda here and see how I’m pleased with what the team have done.

Once again, we are only requesting the features that were voted on and passed by community and council, nothing more, nothing less.

You are requesting the team go back and make another change to serve your agenda. You can’t say this is not money related. You want them to be presented as even more exclusive then the current change. Why? do you not like the new design? You want them to look premium so you have the option to flip for a higher price. We’re not dumb.

[thick bronze]

The gold alpha stamp is more eye-catching and stands out more than the white marble alpha stamp. This proposal is to provide uniqueness and eye-catching color to wave 1 alpha stamp and as per my view, it doesn't look like that way now...

[echo garnet]

As per the original proposal wave 1 was suppose to stay gold with the new color being different. If wave 1 remained gold and the white was applied to all future waves would this alleviate the issue? Or what exactly was expected?

[sour robin]

Not for me personally, as you still cannot tell the difference between them.

[echo garnet]

What do you envision to be a good distinctive stamp then?

[sour robin]

Ideally a colour that contrasts gold as to be distinctive.

[rigid perch]

A factor I haven't heard considered is that the stamp should also contrast the underlying images. There are a very limited subset of colours that can achieve that.

Keep in mind that alpha stamps weren't part of the team's design, they were added by community request, and weren't set up to exist with multiple colorations.

[thick bronze]

Would it be possible for the team to share 3-4 choices of different colours (suggested by the community) and couple of color options from team ? We can then have selection process to choose the best possible color out of it.

[rigid perch]

Possible, yes. Whether it's a responsible thing for the DAO to request at this stage is another story. Everything I've been hearing from the team is that they are running at max capacity on critical tasks to get PvP launched, and on a larger scale to get Open Beta out.

It is possible though.

[thick bronze]

If any of our community member has skills to put selected color alpha stamp on illuvitars and share it here then it would make the process faster in selecting the best color...

[sour robin]

I'd just like to pop this in again, as it is a good example of what would pass as unique and visually distinctive.
I'm not suggesting to use this as the team did drop it, so it mustn't have been favoured.

Without any question, regardless of sizing/format, you can see immediately that it is unique.

[buoyant spire]

To provide a slither of context to the design choices.

The wave 1 stamp is now given the Obereum look. As hard as it might be to distinguish for some, it is within our lore and universe the most rare material to be found, hence we choose it for wave 1 set 1 aphas.

Alpha stamps will inherently remain small, as its not preferred to have them be very large on the prints and other outings.

We are still working on ways to get you to see them larger inside of our ecosystem, which will made the stamps much clearer to players.

If anything we make the gold stamp a bit darker or whatever to make it stand out more. We tested it on plenty of images and thought it was workable, not too in ur face and not too blend.

[thick bronze]

I like that it is being discussed to make wave 1 alpha stamp much more cleaner and bigger in Illuvium ecosystem. If that is being discussed then it should be fine and explanation around color selection to match with Illuvium's most rare material makes me thinking that it might be right decision here. It reflects rarity in Illuvium ecosystem.

[sour robin]

We are still working on ways to get you to see them larger inside of our ecosystem, which will made the stamps much clearer to players.

If i'm not mistaken I think he was referring to all Alpha stamps here, not specifically wave 1.

With a darker Obereum stamp for wave 1, this should provide enough contrast to make it distinctive, especially if it can be viewed at a larger scale.
Sounds very promising. Looking forward to see how it looks.

[thick bronze]

It might be good idea to highlight wave 1 alpha stamp bit more than other wave alphas in Illuvium ecosystem if possible. I hope they consider it.

[buoyant spire]

No its not being worked on to make it cleaner and bigger..

Alpha stamps serve no purpose other than an indication that it is an alpha.. remember this.

Last thing we want is people getting confused about it, or think that it might give actual perks. It doesnt.

Wave 1 illuvitars, we want give the Obereum material alpha stamp.
Every wave that follows will have the golden stamp (possibly darken the gold a little, so the whiter-obereum-stamp stabds out a little more.)

[buoyant spire]

No, this is not planned or desired imo.

[sour robin]

My wife has just knocked these up (roughly, don't judge 😅 ) to provide a visual representation of what is likely going to be coming based on the feedback from @buoyant spire .
The Obereum wave 1 Alpha stamp (left) and a darker gold wave 2 Alpha stamp (Right).
Are we correct in thinking that this is what we are to expect, if so, any feedback welcome.

[grizzled lake]

It is more visually contrasting when compared to the original examples, but I don’t think is distinctive enough that people will really be able to tell when viewing in the illuvidex or token trove.

[hexed drift]

You are acting like everyone in this thread is begging for a handout. But weren't you the one pinging teammembers trying to sell them ens domains? I mean...

[buoyant spire]

Before anyone takes this as canon, please dont 🥲

[old ermine]

If the Obereum had an Obereum outline instead of the darker outline would that make it distinct enough? It would make it fit with the lore even better of Obereum being the most rare material in Illuvium and the Wave 1 Alphas being the most rare and hence have a pure Obereum stamp.

[grizzled lake]

Why is that? How does the images differ from what you said previously?
The obereum stamp is going to be wave 1 and the gold stamp wave 2 right?

[buoyant spire]

Sorry but this is closer to what the result would be #1123318798712315915 message- to say again tho, if it is too close alike we could consider darkening the golden stamp a little so theres a bit more contrast to the whiter - obereum one. -

[grizzled lake]

@thick bronze are you seeing this? Can you believe? What you propose to yet they fail to meet your criteria and they don’t care . This is now clearly not a commmunity based game, then what’s the point of having discord and all these discussions.
If at the end of all of this we don’t agree on the new stamp design, what then? Because that is where I think it’s going.

[jovial rock]

Are you reading above? Design decisions have been based on lore. They also need to consider the different backgrounds so the stamp is not lost. They can’t shoot lasers out of the stamp just so everyone looks at the first wave and says wow look at that!

The badge itself is differentiated. What’s happening is that you a nit-picking. Let it go, thank the team and move onto something more impactful.

Remember the badge was only added because the community asked for it. Now you’re saying this isn’t a community based game

[thick bronze]

I can't tell the difference between the stamps unless I zoom in really close. I hope the new stamp will be more visually distinct from the other wave alphas. That was the community's intention when they voted for this proposal.

[sour robin]

This does appear to be getting push back from the team though, so we need to know what comes next if the OP (you) amongst others are not satisfied with the proposed outcome.

[jovial rock]

I’m so done with this nitpicking thread. Let the team work on something more meaningful to the games, that’s my advice.

[sour robin]

You said that yesterday, so I guess we will see you again tomorrow 😄 .

[thick bronze]

The proposal called for a visually distinct stamp that could be easily identified without zooming in. If the new stamp does not meet this requirement, then the team has not met the expectations of the proposal. I will defer to the team's judgment on whether or not the new stamp is distinct enough.

[thick bronze]

I would wait and see if team react to community's feedback. Let them finalize the stamp and comeup with final version for us. I hope they still consider community feedback and try to make final changes to make it visually distinct without zooming it.

[jovial rock]

What you don’t get is that the alpha stamp is an extra addition that the team was asked to add.

The alpha stamp itself should be small and discreet and not take away from the Illuvitar.

If the stamp is discreet in general any changes will also be discreet until you actually have a close look at the badge itself.

They’re not going to make it a shiny diamond alpha badge with sparkles to server your purpose.

There is something called design guidelines.

[echo garnet]

If anything this is a good lesson to both the community and council members that when drafting a proposal maybe they should be more specific. If we lack specifics we need to be okay with the team making executive decisions. Everyone's interpretation is different after all.

If anyone OP or otherwise is not happy with the outcome I am happy to help them draft a new more precise proposal. Or anyone else on the CSC would also be happy to help.

[thick bronze]

I acknowledge that the team is listening to the community and doing their best to meet expectations. However, I believe that we may have overlooked some details, which has led to some disagreement between the community and the team.

I like that team choose it to make the Wave 1 Alpha stamps unique by using the rare Illuvium in-game material color, white marble. However, the white stamp may not be as visually distinct as the gold stamp. I still believe that white marble is the right choice for the rare color, but I would be happy if the team made the gold stamp darker so that the white stamp would stand out more. I believe that @buoyant spire suggested this as well in an earlier comment... i don't want to go for new proposal here unless someone else from community want to have a totally different color stamp and not happy with tweaking the stamps a bit to make it unique.

[old ermine]

JMO FWIW, I just want it to look different at a glance even if it's small. How that's done I really don't care.

[austere juniper]

I can tell you right now we're not making additional changes to the stamp above what I've shared.

It is distinct from the Gold Alpha Stamp. It is Obereum and has a place in the lore.

As I said, if you're dissatisfied, speak to Community Sub Council and provide a clear brief with specific requirements.

Noting that the relevant operators are extremely busy on tasks that directly impacts our ability to deliver Open Beta.

Once more, I have all the respect in the world for the dissatisfied parties, but we will not continue to play mind-reader and waste time with guesswork when there are critical tasks that should be prioritized.

As I said, provide a clear brief and we'll schedule the work at some point to ensure it causes minimal impact.

Leaving this thread for now, I will look forward to a clear brief provided to me via the Council.

[sour robin]

No worries, understood. I appreciate the clarity.

[sour robin]

@thick bronze A small statement just to clarify my own position on the matter.

From my perspective as you are the OP, the next move depends on wether you feel satisfied with the outcome or not, and if not, wether you are prepared to file another proposal providing additional clarifications to help ensure a satisfactory outcome.

As you will be aware, I am not satisfied with the outcome as I feel it has missed the mark of what was expected, and therefore if you wanted to submit a new proposal I would support it. However, if you are satisfied and would prefer not to pursue another proposal, I would also be happy to stand by that decision and I would not be looking to take it upon myself to submit a proposal as I would consider the issue/proposal resolved.

[thick bronze]

I am happy with white marble but i prefer to have golden stamp darker as suggested by @buoyant spire to have wave 1 alpha stamp more appealing... i dont want to pursue for new proposal here just for some tweak on golden stamp here

[sour robin]

Based on the recent comment made by Nick, you have to now assume that no more changes on those stamps are coming and that those are final. I have attached them again here for reference.

[thick bronze]

I would definitely be interested in highlighting white marble more as compare to gold stamp and if team needed separate proposal with clear details on it then i would love to do it along with CSC and prepare new proposal for it.

[sour robin]

Just wondering if you think it would be wise to include within the proposal that the work would be scheduled to commence after the release of open beta.
Still go ahead with the proposal and seeking approval, just delay the work itself as to not burden to team at all.
They are clearly telling us that they are already pushed to the limit regarding time constraints.

[thick bronze]

I am willing to wait until the open beta to implement the necessary changes, as long as the team agrees to make the wave 1 alpha stamp more prominent than the gold color stamp.

[austere juniper]

Thank you both, will speak to Rogier later tonight about timings.

[calm aspen]

How is it not?

[torpid galleon]

Just a quick Twitter poll - interesting results:

[sour robin]

Interesting indeed. I would love to see a poll conducted here on Discord with the example images displayed along with the poll.

[charred portal]

Indeed, you left out the enlarged version of the golden stamp as a reference in the poll as well. While you did mention the 2 rows of uniqur stamps in the imagery, i doubt people cared to read that and took the effort to zoom in on the 8 images. I could imagine them seeing the "same" 8 stamps and think: "That looks OK"

[torpid galleon]

This is why CSC is looking into "Governance-Poll" options in Discord - which will have transparent voting (similar to upvoting and downvoting on proposals)

We have been investigating Polling solutions for quite some time 🙂

[torpid galleon]

Also having the poll first, means votes may be cast prior to seeing the images... ideally seeing all the information first, follow-up by a vote is ideal

[sour robin]

I will try to make it as objective as I can.
Before I make the argument, you just have to agree with just two basic premisis.

1. When referring to visual distinctiveness in regards to the Alpha stamp, we are referring to solely colour as other properties of the stamp itself cannot be altered.
2. When making two colours distinct from one another, the most significant contributing factor is contrast.

If you agree that both of those premises are sound, then you must also agree that white is the least visually distinctive colour that could have been used in conjunction with yellow/gold. The most visually distinctive colour that could have been used would be black.

Bearing this in mind, when people are expecting visual distinctiveness, using the least visually distinctive colour available, you would logically expect that the majority of people would be displeased by this.

[sour robin]

In regards to the way that this poll was conducted, both images used and polling options available, I would argue that it is biased and was set up to achieve the desired outcome of the person/persons that compiled it. Which i'm guessing are of the opinion that the stamp is visually distinctive.
I would hope that if polling does come to discord or any other platform, that they will be conducted using a scientific/unbiased approach.

Another point to note. For most practical purposes illuvitars will be viewable at small scale, for example, in the illuvidex, on leaderboard and TokenTrove etc. So to use imagery in a sizing and format that no-one will be viewing them in, in practical reality, it is highly misleading.
Even I would agree that when blown up to those scales, that the Stamps are visually distinctive, but that is not the scale that they will be viewed at, is it.

[torpid galleon]

Understandable - the way the Polling would be in an official format will more strictly adhere to policy and ensure it is as unbiased as possible.

I do see your concerns how my poll may come off as biased, however, that was not my intent. It was merely to gather quick sentiment outside of discord where more eyes may see it. Next time, I will take a little more time to ensure it does not favor one selection over another 🫡👌🏻

[sour robin]

however, that was not my intent

I didn't believe that it was, I do apologise if it did come across that way.

[torpid galleon]

No worries and no offense taken at all - looking back on it, it could have been worded and handled better

Appreciate all feedback - especially knowing it's coming from a good place and active community member! 👍

[old ermine]

I agree but can also see where there could be confusion.

The word distinct technically means different. They are different from each other. However, at least where I am, the word distinct would imply a very noticeable difference. What I see here is a similar difference not a distinct difference.

[sour robin]

You're absolutely right.
Maybe if it was proposed with an additional qualifier as to be more specific regarding the level of distinction required between the two. Ultimately it wasn't and this is where we now find ourselves unfortunately.

I think @echo garnet summed it up perfectly with their previous comment:

If anything this is a good lesson to both the community and council members that when drafting a proposal maybe they should be more specific. If we lack specifics we need to be okay with the team making executive decisions. Everyone's interpretation is different after all.

[grizzled lake]

We don’t want something that zooom up 100x to see the difference.

[torpid galleon]

Just a quick update to share, CSC is in discussions with the Team for revisions - no need for a new IIP at this time.

More updates to follow soon! 👍

[thick bronze]

Any updates on this one @torpid galleon ?

[thick bronze]

I can see that new alpha stamp for wave 1 is already released on prod. Do you think it shows uniqueness by looking them with other wave alpha? As per my view, it doesn't deliver uniqueness when you look at them without zooming in. Pls see attached image for your reference

I'm going to defer to the team and community on this decision. I've said my piece, and I'm not going to argue about it anymore. Thank you for considering my proposal and for your efforts in trying to make it happen.

[torpid galleon]

#📣〕announcements message

Update from Kieran/Team

[hexed drift]

Going from the 5 min. 30 mark, Scoriox’ reaction in his newest live video could (have) be(en) relevant here.

[thick bronze]

What are you referring to?

[hexed drift]

The ‘silver’ and the need to look twice to see the difference?

To be clear: it's this video: "Huge Illuvium Beyond Upgrades just dropped!"

[thick bronze]

Ok i will check. Its obviously disappointing to not have visually distinct alpha stamp without looking at it multiple times or zooming in. I am not going to chase the team anymore on this topic now. Its already been discussed multiple times before and i will leave it to team to decide and comeup with new changes. I hope we will get final results we want for wave 1 alpha.

[hexed drift]

Sure, just thought it was kind of striking (have a better word in Dutch for it). Nothing more.

[thick bronze]

Are we doing anything on this? I am just curious so asking here...

[sudden flicker]

@austere juniper for visibility

[thick bronze]

Hi @austere juniper , i am pretty sure that team might be addressing this but it would be greatly appreciated if you could share the updates...

[queen tinsel]

Nick not working anymore for labs

[thick bronze]

Any updates?

[torpid galleon]

No longer on council and not really following the status of this one

@outer vine any comment?

[thick bronze]

Ok i assume here that its not being worked on anymore...

[outer vine]

Not sure tbh, we can ask the team

[dreamy gulch]

Are you meaning about what else the alpha wave 1 buyers were getting?

[thick bronze]

Not really. Its about having community's concern acknowledged to make some further changes on alpha stamp or something so that it looks obviously distinct and unique as compare to other wave alpha stamps...