Changes to the parameters of the Illuvitar Alpha Sale Wave 2

[glossy parrot]

On behalf of the <@&1107754344499122206> and <@&1107754638884745236> with input from Nick, Aaron, Perry and Johnny, we are seeking community feedback regarding changes to the parameters for the Illuvitar Alpha Sale Wave 2. Please read everyone's input on this topic and share your thoughts to help us better gauge community sentiment. <@&1107754780744487002> <@&1107754494466469919> The marketing subcouncil suggests a supply of 25k Standard Alpha D1sks and
5k Mega Alpha D1sks, maintaining the 5:1 ratio. All pricing will remain the same as the
Extended Wave 1 sale for both the Extended and Alpha sale of Wave 2.
This is 0.005 ETH for an Alpha Standard D1sk and 0.025 ETH for an Alpha Mega D1sk.
Or $9 and $45.

We believe that having the Alphas priced the same as the regular D1sks will encourage people
to be ready to buy at the start of the sale so they don't miss out on getting Alphas.
There will be no specific number of days for the sale, as it will be more of a first-come,
first-served sale for Alphas. After Alpha D1sks are sold out, the sale will transition
to selling regular D1sks.

[tame bison]

Looking forward to seeing some feedback and discussing below 🙏

[plucky glen]

For anyone on mobile this is a txt document. But maybe @sonic burrow can help us place it in here as plain text

[graceful flame]

Personally I really like the idea of them being the same price as the regular disks, it feels truer to an actual 'first edition', athough I would also feel pretty terrible for everyone that purchased an alpha in the previous wave at the previous price.

Free disk?

[glossy parrot]

This could be a good option

[keen wyvern]

I think it might be tricky to fairly credit the people who spent more on the initial alphas.
Disks bought from the store, easy enough. But what about all the ones who bought disks off the secondary market?

[steady tusk]

With my background in TCGs I liked the same price idea for the first wave for various reasons including likely higher trading volume, offering buyers a product that likely increases in value if we wanna compare to TCGs, leaving them happy and optimistic to buy more further products of the ecosystem, 5x made it a more risky move from the investing in TCG 1st Edition similar products, but many still did it, many unopened D1sks are left as well.
So I can only reiterate that I´d be very afraid how upsetting it could be to the buyers if moving forward in set 1 already the price would be on parity after initial 5X.

I see this as potentially alienating people who are looking forward to Illuvium and Illuvium assests to be more than web2 gaming/cosmetic assets in terms of maintaining value.
So like said above if this is the idea to move forward with because it would be nice from here on out, something to make the gamers and investors not feel like the DAO is just extracting value/money (which would mimix the avg web2 sentiment on how many big companies are seen) from them would feel needed, in my opinion.

I generally don´t oppose the same price or x 1.5-2 or w.e. and am aware that it was never promised alphas would stay 5X or stay in certain quantity or or or, but after community was arguing a lot against 5x e.g. and then people still decided to buy, I can see a future in which many of those buyers saw the DAOs strong opinion on 5x as something that reassured them some of the value they "gambled" on.

[cold depot]

One thing I don’t like is making Alpha both cheaper and making less of them. That would make Wave 1 not rare while they were very expensive.

One thing I was saying before, and is really important, but nobody never cared. If Mega is 5x the price of Standard. Than Alpha Mega can’t be 5x the price of Alpha standard. What makes some value of Standard D1sk are accessories. They are worthless (pretty much) when buying Alpha D1sk. That is the reason we didn’t sell Alpha Standards and that should be adjusted. I have no idea why we weren’t talking more about it before, but at least now we have to do something about it.

I was also for an idea that Alpha D1sks are something like Promo D1sks. You only have one kind and you get only 1 Illuvial and nothing else. But that would destroy economy over Alpha T0 so we can’t do that.

[fossil sigil]

I always liked the idea of the Alphas being the same price but only availible for the first 24 hours of the sale.

If we did the first 24 hours as Alphas with an unlimited supply it doesnt totally ruin the wave 1 alpha disks since the wave 1 alphas would be more rare than future waves.

I do like the idea of a free disk for people who minted wave 1 alphas. They turned out to be a total fail and it might get people who lost big interested in wave 2.

[cold depot]

Also, if we are adding new background to T0 Illuvials in theory we can lower the prices of D1sks. Only problem I see are accessories and their prices.

People would still be buying tons of them if they want to open more. But maybe we would get more people into the game.

Personal experience. Without Alphas I spent like $500 on D1sks and I haven’t collected even 50% of the Illuvitars. I know it’s not a lot of money spent, but at the same time it’s a lot. If we one day want to have kids collecting digital collectibles not a lot of parent can afford couple of thousand dollars every month. But that is only my perspective.

Currently I’m aware I will never collect the whole album. But that’s the reason we have leaderboards and a lot of collections and I think it was done really good.

But I don’t see a lot of disadvantages in lowering the prices a bit.

[cold depot]

Main pushback during talks before Wave 1 was: everyone would just buy the first day and nobody would buy the next 3 months. And maybe we would have more Alphas minted then Regular D1sks.

Having them as the same price and unlimited is in my opinion not a good idea.

[keen wyvern]

This will be very opinion-based from my point of view, so keep that in mind.

I think one of the main reasons Alphas aren't appealing to people is the 5x higher price for no added benefit, they're both functionally and visually the same as the extended version.
The other reason is that the design concept is, in my opinion, fundamentally flawed in numerous ways.

• I often see people drawing parallells to Pokemon or Magic, but there's a massive difference in how those games were created and how Beyond is. First Edition Pokemon Cards weren't created with the intention that they were goin to be more valuable than later sets, neither were the Alpha, Beta and Unlimited sets of Magic: the Gathering. People don't want them because they're valuable, they're valuable because people want them. A very important distinction that evidently don't apply to Alpha Illuvitars. As I see it, the design behind Beyond Alphas is an attempt at artificially creating a First edition set similar to Pokemon/Magic but skipping the build-up of community interest. This by simply saying that Alphas are worth more and setting their price tag at 5x for a product that is functionally and visually no different from the extended version.

• Beyond is referred to as a collectible game (mostly by the community, can't find an actual definition on the official pages). The problem here is trying to appeal to a bigger audience, while at the same time severly limiting the collectibility aspect. Not every combination of Illuvitar/Background/Expression/Finish will be available for a set (Alpha sets even less so), this makes it impossible for 99,9% of the future audience to actually complete certain sets. Which is a big no-no for completionists. And completionists make up a decent portion of any collectible community.

• There is no functionality for the Illuvitars besides being used as a profile picture. The launch of Beyond is about a year ahead of when it should have been. If it had been released after the Public Betas of the other 3 games, there would most likely be a bigger audience that could take an interest in it. Or if it was launched as part of it's own game. Yes, there's the leaderboard, but that doesn't appeal to anyone with a limited budget, or anyone who has issues with the idea of bonding accessories to their Illuvitars (not everyone likes the bling and clutter visuals).

With that out of the way, in regards to the lower price tag of Set 2 Alphas, it could very well be positive for sales. On the other hand, without adressing the core issues behind the design as a whole it might not have any effect at all.

Sorry if that sounded overly negative, but that's my perspective of what the current situation looks like (whether it be true or not that's another question).

[steady tusk]

Simply to throw the idea out here, if we go with same price for alpha and alpha isn´t made a super high quantity collection and we would say this new format will stay for the rest of set 1, would it be too much to give wave 1 alpha buyers 1 alpha D1sk Airdrop per D1sk they bought?

It would likely make the Wave 1 buyers happy, dilute the lower supply of further alphas to not mess too much with the scarcity argument of the first alpha wave that was made to sell the "luxury product" as Council and Labs marketed it as and because alphas are now same price, people would prob not be super mad at ILV for giving "free" stuff out, as buying an alpha version for same price would still be a beneficial system for them compared what they were used to in wave 1 when they only bought non alpha.

[cold depot]

I personally always imagined Illuvium beyond as something like Panini stickers and never like TCG.

That’s the reason I’m always pushing towards collecting more Illuvitars rather than collecting some. There will always be more rare and more expensive Illuvitars that are worth more. But having ability to collect everything is important in my opinion.

[cold depot]

Just to be clear, you would airdrop Wave 2 Alpha D1sk to Wave 1 buyers?

[steady tusk]

yeah, airdrop wave 2,3,... until set 1 is over

[cold depot]

I actually like that idea. That would mean that Wave 1 Alpha will be the rarest collection of all Alphas in the end.

Only problem I have is how to price Alphas from now on and how many of them we are selling in each Wave.

[steady tusk]

I think that idea can only work with same price for alphas and normal, time window for alphas and them being not overly scarce, same price should make people wanna buy alphas > normal, so maybe we could end up with more alphas than normal ones^^, but that would mean that the frontloaded buying of the more rare alphas should be followed by people fomoing in the potentially more rare non alphas towards the end?
In that case maybe added reasons to buy in certain timeframes, like monthly or weekly rewards for buying X could be a thing to incentivize more buying of non alpha D1sks as well.

Like buy 20x 10%code for Merch, 50x to get one D1skplate as a monthly goal, buy 10 D1sks get one standard free as weekly

[cold depot]

After 5x price and limited number I feel it’s hard to go back to same price unlimited number. But I like your thinking.
Monthly and weekly goals during regular sale is something that would push people to collect more. There are also leaderboards so you would need to buy more if you want to stay there (only like 100 people would care). But it’s something that can work.
But unlimited is really not something I would go for.

[steady tusk]

I don´t think unlimited, but doing e.g. the 5k Megas that are an example in the PDF would lead with 5k new people being able to buy and 20k airdrops, idk if that ratio is good

[cold depot]

If we are are already minting (using your idea) 20k Mega D1sks I would be selling another 20-30k of them at same price as Regular ones. I just don’t like unlimited amount during 3 days. Just an example. But I see that working out.

[nova wind]

I don't think tip-toeing around Alpha Wave 1 makes sense - It was the first iteration of the product and pricing model, and there was always a possibility that it would need to change based on the data collected from Wave 1.

If a change makes sense based on that data, let's do it. Continuing down a path just because it was the first one we took is not how we should (IMO) approach anything, including Illuvitars.

I'm wholly supportive of the overall proposal. As a small technical preference, I'd like to see the core information displayed clearly as the objective of the proposal, with the discussion points following after (currently it's backwards, discussion is covered, and the final specification is very late in the doc). This is assuming that the marketing SC's recommendation is the objective of the proposal. That's really pretty minor, and only serves to help with readability for people who may not want to dig deep into the proposal.

[cold depot]

Was there ever a reason we didn’t have Alpha and Regular sale at the same time? And Alpha lasting 3 days.

[nova wind]

It was a technical limitation due to limited time between the proposal and the sale. It had to be A then B (or incur a significant delay, with marketing already underway), the 3 day window was a council decision.

It was revised down to a 3 day window from a 7 day window over the course of iteration.

[cold depot]

But in theory we have time now to change that and we can start the sale with all 4 D1sks?

And what about selling only 2 D1sks and Alpha Illuvitars are those loaded in the first 24 hours or something?

[ripe drum]

I don't know much about economy of trading cards.
But keeping a "Bad System" because we already sold should never be a question. We do everything for the first time, mistakes happen... But that shouldn't be a reason to hold onto a not good System.
Maybe give them something to be happy again, like Viper said, even tho i think he would give away way too much with airdropping a disk for every alpha disk bought.

[steady tusk]

I don´t think it is tip toeing around Alpha Wave 1, part of the above conclusion that leads marketing to wanting to offer less than 1/10 in dollar of alpha than we sold in the first wave means the sentiment around alphas and people wanting to buy alpha d1sks/illuvitars seems bad and doing something to uplift that sentiment seems like a reasonable marketing effort, you prob don´t want to lose the people that had the bags to buy all those wave 1 alphas disregarding the high risk and uncertainty. Making those feel happy seems important to me.

I remember part of the argument for 5x price was that the DAO expected the product to be worth around 5x and they didn´t want to sell it too low, if this current idea and sentiment concluded the DAO did a misscalculation, isn´t elevating the sentiment of the Alpha Wave 1 buyers important part of marketing?

I think simply saying in hindsight we made a mistake, didn´t know better at the time and leaving the customers with the bill doesn´t seem optimal.

[graceful flame]

Alpha was supposed to be a 'first edition'. That doesn't work if they are not actually the first one's available. If you can buy both at the same time then the alphas becomes more similar to a collector's edition, which doesn't make sense as they have no extra power/function

[rocky kelp]

Yeah let’s get this posted in a way that mobile users can access it too

[nova wind]

By this logic, we shouldn't ever change anything that could affect the perceived value of any assets, because we'd be "leaving customers with the bill".

I don't think this is a productive mindset to dial in pricing for our products, generally speaking.

There's a fixed amount of Alpha Wave 1 d1sks that have been sold, the market will value and price those accordingly. Revising the pricing now, if it is indeed a more accurate price, is ideal when compared to waiting for another 2 or 3 waves. The value and price of Wave 2 Alphas may be different than the value and price of Wave 1 Alphas.

Getting it right sooner is better than continuing to get it wrong, and clearly we did get quantities and pricing wrong for Alphas in Wave 1 - The intent was to sell out, and to sell out quickly.

[steady tusk]

I simply stated you left lots of people unhappy about Alpha wave 1 already as concluded by council and team as it seems and just ignoring them won´t make them happy. If disregarding and ignoring them for the sake of not setting a precedent that could be used against the DAO is the optimal solution than that be it, but I believe you won´t make your former big customers happy with that mindset and I don´t believe that to be the best marketing decision for retaining and acquiring new costumers.

[nova wind]

I don't believe anyone has been ignored. Alpha stamps are being added to Alphas, and that was certainly the largest point of concern that I heard expressed by the community with regard to Alphas as a product.

This is more an issue of overestimating demand for a product, and adjusting supply to a more appropriate level. Unless I'm misreading, supply will drop by 4x, pricing will stay the same for Alphas, per this proposal.

It's hardly a positive element for Alpha Wave 1 buyers if supply of Alphas as a product remains significantly higher than demand.

[cold depot]

I disagree with that. If there is only 5k Mega D1sk now compared to 20k in Wave 1 isn’t that automatically more value to Wave 2 alphas because they are more rare.

Also why are we keeping the same 5:1 ratio. If we want that the pricing has to change! There is a reason no one was buying Standard Alpha D1sks. We aren’t doing anything to change that apart from lowering supply so some people will be force to buy it….

[nova wind]

To put a finer point on this feedback, and do correct me if I'm misrepresenting this:

1. Lower supply will create a higher demand and higher value for Wave 2 Alphas compared to Wave 1 Alphas, and so you're opposed to the lowered supply.
2. Pricing for Alpha Standards is too high compared to non-Alpha Standards, since Accessories are not Alpha tagged and don't have any inherent difference from non-Alpha Standards.

Is that correct?

[leaden pendant]

#1094300746700308500 message

^ I still believe this is the right way to handle Alphas moving forward, although I'm not opposed to a 5k Mega D1SK & 25k Standard D1SK Alpha Sale at Regular Wave 1 Prices to kick it all off, I think that would likely mint out and be a success. But I think we strongly need to consider intergrating at least 25-50% of Alpha Illuvitars packs into a Leaderboard reward based structure that helps the growth and expansion of the ecosystem.

Give Illuvium Beyond Players what they want: More Illuvitars

[cold depot]

1. I think that’s right.
2. No, I feel like Alpha standards are too highly priced compared to Alpha Megas.

[nova wind]

Gotcha, so a bigger multiplier than 5x from Alpha Standard to Alpha Mega would be your solution (with the difference being made up by pricing Alpha Standards lower, but keeping Megas the same?)

[glossy parrot]

JP I have added the final suggestions from the Marketing team in the post to accommodate mobile users who may not want to download the txt file.

[glossy parrot]

Thanks for the suggestion to put the core idea first and talking points after. To accommodate mobile users I decided to put the core idea into the post instead of editing the attached document.

[glossy parrot]

I really like your idea Seatin, Dev time seems to be the only concern after reading all feedback in your thread. If a team member could comment on this that would be great.

[paper bay]

Mobile users usually can easily view google docs. I attempted to post it as a regular message in here but it contained content that was blocked (plus it would have been 2 messages long)

[leaden pendant]

I believe we had Nick already comment saying Leaderboard expansion was do-able and within scope, I believe they also checked the Blockchain related stuff and it all fell within work that was doing/within scope (Automated reward distribution is now being worked on for ILV rewards)

[glossy parrot]

We talked about your idea in the Marketing Meeting briefly and we all agreed we liked your idea but we worked with the feedback from the document we were provided and there was no suggestion of an outside idea like yours so we focused to price and quantity. I am all for anyone who wants to add feedback of your idea into this discussion 👍

[cold depot]

#1073158340512858172 message

#1073158340512858172 message

This was my reasoning before the first sale. The math just does not work out.

And we saw that in the end when the sale was finished.

I'm not proposing lower prices for Standard D1sks or higher for Megas. But I think one of those has to happen. Because if Regular D1sks are nicely priced with Mega = 5 x Standard. Alphas can't be that way as we don't have Alpha accessories.

---

Also, if we go back to 1) from your post. I feel that if I bought something and it was said it will be only in a limited amount and that's why it's really awesome, and now we will create Wave 2 where there will be 5 times lower number of Alpha Illuvitars, making everyone that bought Wave 1 Alphas pretty much morons.
Because if we go to situation let's say 5 years from now. Where we have 55 Alpha Rhamphyres and like 4 Alpha Ophistos. Which one will be more rare? Therefore making everyone that bought Wave 1, because they trusted the project, lose value on their Alpha Illuvitars.
I would be happy if somebody can change my opinion and say that making less Alpha D1sks this time is not a slap to the face to everyone buying them in Wave 1.

[worn schooner]

How about doubling the power to increase the value of alpha? Including accessories.
If you have more than 5000 power illuvitars now, make it 9999 power.

It's not worth five times as much, so it's better to increase the value of alpha than to lower the price.
The only reason why alpha prices are low at the moment is because there is nowhere to use them, normal disks didn't have that many sales before the ranking rewards were announced, it was only after the rewards were announced that they exploded.

There is no use for Alpha in the current ranking, no one does it because bonding would reduce its value.
If in the future a new card game or something is created using illuvitars and power becomes more important, then the value of alpha will increase.
If you want to reach the top of the rankings, you need to buy Alpha and you also need to buy Normal.

Is it right to judge a situation as worthless only on the basis of what is happening at the moment?
I think some people think that if it doesn't sell very well it will increase its value in the future.

The problem with Wave2 is that there is the issue of ranking rewards, which is almost settled in Wave1. If they only buy enough Wave2 to maintain their current ranking, that will also be the case in Wave3 and beyond.

Do you plan to change the current way of ranking rewards if sales of Wave2 normal disks drop?
What do you think about the fact that you don't know if you will be able to keep your current sales if you lower the price of Alpha?

If you say current prices are high, what will the selling price be when the ETH increases tenfold?
Will you sell at ETH of the recommended price every time?
If there is a recommended price, Can't you sell it in USDC?
If you are also thinking of attracting Web2 users in the future, it would be better to be easy to understand.

[glossy parrot]

If you say current prices are high, what will the selling price be when the ETH increases tenfold? The price in eth can be adjusted each wave.
Will you sell at ETH of the recommended price every time? If I am understanding your question right, yes
If there is a recommended price, Can't you sell it in USDC? A team member would need to answer this question.

[cold depot]

We can't just double the power of Alpha Illuvitars and is was promised differently.
I don't know if we can like create a special Alpha Collections that bring more points to you towards leaderboard.

[nova linden]

i do hope they give alpha wave 1 d1sks buyers some love, like airdropping 1 alpha wave 2 d1sks
1-10 minted alpha wave 1 = 1x alpha wave 2 standard d1sk
11-20 minted alpha wave 2 = 1x alpha wave 2 mega d1sk
and so on...
or discounted price like 30% off corresponding how many alpha wave 1 you minted

example: if you minted 10 alpha mega 1 you get 30% off for the first 10 alpha mega wave 2

people love discounts 🤣

[autumn bear]

I was always against alphas at all. And now they are creating new problems. I am sure we need changes for wave 2 alphas. But I have concerns that it is not easy to fix.

1. The 5:1 ratio doesn't make sense. In wave 1 I think the ratio of sold alpha disks was 2:1. So twice as many standard disks have been sold. This shows that the demand for alpha standard disks is not 5 times as high as for mega disks.

2. If I remembr right then we will have the same T0 illuvitars in wave 2 that have been in wave 1. So any buyer of a wave 2 alpha standard disk would get a T0 at a discount compared to wave 1. Wave 1 buyer won't be happy about that. They paid 5x the price and the supply of T0 alphas increase which makes it even worse

3. I don't like the fact that cheaper wave 2 alphas will be more rare than wave 1 alphas because we sell less disks. I also think it doesn't make sense to sell alphas for every wave. But if you do so then give the very first alphas something special. And that should not be the higher price. Or at least don't give the players the feeling that wave 1 alphas are the worst alphas of all.

I currently don't have a satisfying solution for that. But maybe someone has a good idea to address these problems.

[glossy parrot]

The 5:1 ratio doesn't make sense. In wave 1 I think the ratio of sold alpha disks was 2:1. So twice as many standard disks have been sold. This shows that the demand for alpha standard disks is not 5 times as high as for mega disks. Both Alpha Megas and Alpha Standards sold 20k each so 1:1

[autumn bear]

So even worse. I couldn't look up the numbers on the website anymore. So I was not sure about the ratio.

[leaden mantle]

The only way I'll buy alphas wave 2 is if they are the same price as standards...period. Not enough perceived value by me. Now, same price, limited supply, short period available, I would buy more disks overall than I will otherwise, and all the alphas I can. And I bought the alpha disks wave 1 and no I shouldn't get a reward for it not working out...buyer beware and we have to take responsibility for our own choices. I just quickly pivoted my strategy when it became obvious to me that alphas lacked extra value but "first mover" or eventual scarcity. And I wouldn't change the value for them in the leaderboard either. If they develop a game, maybe some slight advantage or bragging rights, or even an alpha only game. My two cents 😉

[nova linden]

agreed

[autumn bear]

A quick and dirty solution would be to release no more alphas at all. So we only keep the wave 1 alphas. What would be the problem if there isn't an alpha version of every illuvitar?
Then the dao takes it's time and works on a new alpha concept for set 2. I guess this idea won't get much love here. But as I said. I wasn't a fan of them in the first place. This idea would please the early buyers and supporters. But it would go against the concept that alphas have been intrduced to attract whales. Idk if that concept worked out.

[worn schooner]

Doubling the power might be too big, I feel like 1.2-.1.5 times is fine.
Not particularly important if there's a lot of opposition, we'll look at other ways to make it.

What about the idea of Standard Alpha plus one rare item and Mega Alpha plus two rare items?
or one rare illuvial for standard Alpha, Two rare illuvial and one rare item for Mega Alpha?

[worn schooner]

The reason they're making the Mega better than the Standard is to get the Mega to sell out quickly, the worst thing that Mega Alpha will remain unsold.
Even if the standard only sells 20k, I don't think it will be a problem.
I think the value of the Alpha can be increased over time.

[winter jungle]

I don't see a problem having Alpha's and Non-alphas the same price. It was actually something I was pushing for before the wave 1 sale. I do believe the flex should be "I was here early" > "I spent more money"
Where I do see an issue is lowering the supply of those Alpha d1sks. We shouldnt look back in a couple years and see that wave 2 alphas are the most scare set of Illuvitars out there. I strongly suggest, we keep alphas at the same/similar supply as wave 1 sold (20k mega and ~40k standard)
I don't see an issue with Alphas being a bigger percentage of wave 2. When we're 5 waves in, open beta is out and we have a lot more customers in the ecosystem it's not going to make a difference.

[glossy parrot]

Thanks for the Feedback Nijafe, I have been told there was actually 20k Alpha megas sold and only 20k Alpha standards sold. The question is will we hit those numbers again without the silv2 discount we have in wave 1. Bringing price down should Definity help though

[glossy parrot]

For this wave we will most likely only be able to change the price and quantity. We can gather data for wave 2 and make additional changes IF need be.

[winter jungle]

I believe alpha standards were closer to 37k sold.

With a 5x reduction in price and that price being the same as non-alphas id yes I feel very confident those would sell out.

[glossy parrot]

that was the original number told to me but got conflicting numbers today. Either way I like your feedback!

[winter jungle]

Personally I set aside X amount of silv2/eth for wave 2. If they alphas were the same price, I would unload all my funds during the alpha offering instead of waiting to see what falls on to the secondary market.

[tidal shard]

So, you are suggesting that Wave 2 Alpha be both more rare than Wave 1 and cost less? How do I feel about that? Well,to be completely honest, I feel like a total idiot for getting sucked into the idea that Wave 1 Alpha would be worth the extra money and buying some. I mean, I knew there were risks and it wasn't guaranteed- a chance that Wave 2 wouldn't really sell more than the first Wave so future numbers could be relatively the same, some Illuvials are just more popular, etc. However, I didn't think the risk would be having the council shiv Wave 1 Alpha investors by making the second wave cost around $150 less than the first wave while also reducing numbers.

Viper nailed it with this comment: "I think simply saying in hindsight we made a mistake, didn´t know better at the time and leaving the customers with the bill doesn´t seem optimal."

[iron tiger]

When alphas first come out there was a lot of debate about them. The team then did a townhall to calm down the community and explain their thought process and the different clientele they were going after. If this IIP passes I personally will feel like an idiot for buying alphas.

For me there is only 2 solutions to solve this problem.

1- reduce the quantity (keep price the same as wave 1)

2- no alphas going forward or at least for this set.

[glossy parrot]

Thank you for your feedback Torial, do you want to keep everything the same as the Wave 1 Alpha sale? If not do you have any suggestions on how we can better structure the Wave 2 Alpha sale?

[tidal shard]

I have been typing for awhile and then had to go do some other stuff. I was going to continue but it's late and I am tired. I didn't want to just be shown typing forever and not respond. I will think on it and talk to you tomorrow.

[glossy parrot]

Awesome, GN Torial

[summer elbow]

Just a thought bubble. Have a burn mechanism: can burn Wave 1 Alpha Illuvitar for a wave 2 disk etc. Bring added value to Wave 1 Alpha illuvitars/Disks also increase rarity bringing Wave 1 Alphas closer to Wave 2 Alpha numbers.

[glossy parrot]

Good idea Nudge, thanks for the feedback 👍

[worn schooner]

Is it possible to postpone the sale of WAVE2 until the public beta release?
We have a runway to 2025 and see no reason to rush to sell Wave2.
Is it possible to change the game rewards to only be available during the illuvitars sale period?
In the meantime, can we discuss how to sell Wave2 and come up with ideas such as a new card game and present a vision that will allow illuvitars to succeed?

I don't think anyone would buy the Alpha if it was sold as it is, which is said to be a pricing failure, and even if the price was reduced, if it's only worth twice as much as the Normal, there's little advantage in going out of your way to buy the Alpha.

It would be easier to understand the future if you discontinue Alpha, but is that an option?

[plucky glen]

Haven't read everything yet but I want to respond to this. There's a major number of considerations that mess with things. Firstly alphas outweighing non alphas in scarcity would be a major risk especially if we hand out.alpha d1sks to owners of alpha d1sks from wave 1. Handing out non alpha d1sks to them I could see some merit. We expect the overall volume of d1sk purchases in wave 2 to be much lower and this needs to be considered. Hence the reduction in supply of alphas for wave 2 so we don't end up with a crazy 50/50 or anything.

The other thing we need to discuss is what happens if we don't make any changes. Some have said that if u don't maintain the 5x then wave 1 alpha buyers get affected. Let's say we kept it. I expect 2 people to buy them, Kieran and Kieran. What happens when 1000 alpha d1sks are sold for wave 2. They will be 100x more scarce than wave 1 not to mention destroying the hype and momentum the alpha sale should bring to the overall experience. We cannot leave it as is or the result will be far worse. We may have to just accept things weren't ideal in wave 1 and create an effective system from this point onwards as you mentioned.

[plucky glen]

Technically we cannot simultaneously do anything. It needs to be configuration A, B, C and so on. We can customise each price and time limit for every configuration but anything else will take the team away from more important things

[plucky glen]

I completely agree. But we are unable to do any major changes or overhauls such as this without potentially delaying the games development.

[leaden pendant]

This has already confirmed not to be an issue.

[lusty jungle]

This is actually really good. I'd expand it that they can do so for every wave or set thats being sold at the time. So even those who hoarded d1sks and opens later on they can still redeem it

[cold depot]

Lowering prices is okay. But I don't see how lowering the number of Wave 2 Alpha D1sks being sold is any good for anyone. That is automatically making it more scarce than Wave 1.
Also, I think my example is perfect. Make only 5k Alphas Wave 2 and onwards. What happens when there is 55 Alpha Rhamphyres and like 4 Alpha Ophistos.

It's obvious that a lot of things in Wave 1 were a mistake. But making only Alpha D1sks cheaper and making less of them is for sure not the right solution.

There are other way of making sure we sell a decent amount of Wave 2 Illuvitars.

1. Making them cheaper.

• That would destroy accessories prices and maybe Tier 0 but they have new background.

2. Making weekly and monthly Personal goals.
3. Get more people on the Leaderboard.
4. I'm sure there are other way as well...

I honestly don't know how anyone can think something like:
We are going to sell only 40k Mega D1sks this time in Wave 2. And if we sale 20k of Alphas it will be 50/50 so the best solution is to sell less Alphas so that every Alpha Illuvitar in Wave 1 is automatically more common because we sold too much of them at too high of a price.

[plucky glen]

Yes for the leaderboard. Fragments may be possible in time for wave 3 but im not convinced for wave 2

[cold depot]

Is there any semi-official timeframe for Wave 2?

[calm field]

Wave 2 in Q3

[cold depot]

Q3 can be 1st of July, or 30th of September. If it's 30th of September maybe we get closer to launch and therefore we get more interest and higher sales?
So something like that can influence what we're doing for Wave 2 right?
(edit: if we're getting Wave 3 in Q4 I guess it won't be 30th of September...)

[royal ginkgo]

I'm voting no for this. Because when similar claims were made before wave 1 they were dismissed. And alphas were put into a premium spot for a reason. I think this will diminish the value of existing alpha disks.

Fun/irrelevant fact. I was doing a huge rally for these same points 3 months ago.

[tidal shard]

@glossy parrot
So much of a products perceived value is in the attitude of the seller. You don't give the impression of a premium product by saying, "Oops, just a couple of months ago we charged everyone 400% more than our product was worth so we are dropping the price." The perception that is being given about Illuvium is either: A) Illuvium purposely fleeced buyers of Wave 1 Alphas. B) In a very short time period Illuvium realizes that their product is worth 400% less than what they first thought it was worth. Added to that is the fact that Wave 1 prices were advertised and then changed. Also, many, maybe even most of the community was saying that $200 US was too much for an Alpha Disk but were being assured it wasn't. Neither A or B are good looks.

Therefore, I think the absolute worst thing to do right now is drop the price and reduce the amount. It would alienate those who paid the $200 to get an Alpha Mega and it hurts the image of Illuvium.

There is no perfect solution. However, it is best to annoy those who have yet to spend money than those who already have, they will be more forgiving.

Option A) Scrap Alphas and have Exclusives (or whatever name you want to give them). Market it that Alphas should be reserved only for the first (alpha) Illuvitars sold, but that you want people who are early to the Illuvitar Wave 2 sale to also get something special. Same number of Exclusives in Wave 2 as Alphas in Wave 1 but at a lower price. That way they sell out, early buyers get a bonus and gives the perception that you are doing something as a DAO to maintain the value on the $200 Disks that sold in Wave 1.

Option B) Keep it the same as Wave 1. Have the attitude that high end retailers have - if you don't see the value in our product, you are the one missing out. We will not lower our price because what we are selling is worth it. If they don't sell out be unapologetic about the price. You didn't screw up on price, people are screwing up by not seeing the value.

Option C) My least favourite option but better than just making the price automatically lower imo. Make the exact same number of Alphas as what was sold in Wave 1. Make the price the same that was sold in Wave 1. Put them for sale for the same amount of time. Whatever is left over after the sale isn't burnt right away. Instead they are distributed through redemption codes emailed to the buyers, but they only have 24 hours to collect them or they are burned. So, if 1,000 disks are left over and you bought 1% of all the Alpha Disks that were sold you would get a code to get 1% of the 1,000 disks left over. This would make the numbers of Disks (approximately) the same as Wave 1. It wouldn't solve the issue of the price decrease, but the hope would be that people would see "free" and buy more. Disks would sell out, be no more rare than Wave 1 and technically they are still the same price. Wave 1 got emotes with the Alphas, Wave 2 gets the possibility of free Disks dependent on numbers sold.

[oak kestrel]

I agree with almost all the points made and the reasoning behind lowering the price/quantity of alphas in wave 2 to avoid another alpha sale flop. I am in favor of modifying them.

Although I’m pushing the thumbs-down button because the ICCP is not clear enough on the solution to “make everyone happy” (alpha buyers) even though it states that it “should be a priority if an IIP is passed”. To me this is incomplete as it is now since this could be very tricky point and one should not come without the other. I fear this “solution” could be forgotten, and nothing could be done in this regard.

Just to throw something out there, a potential way to avoid devaluing current alphas may be to call subsequent alpha waves something different such as “first edition”, “origin”, “genesis”, or “[insert marketing term here]” and design them with a different visual effect than alphas. Volume/scarcity/pricing will still be different to wave I alphas but somehow wave I alphas will be first of firsts and unique forever and this may help justify its 5x sale price in the long term.

I really appreciate all the council members’ efforts to improve upon the first wave of Illuvitars.

[gaunt meteor]

Or, 1. Alpha, 2.beta 3.gamma 4.delta 5.epsilon 6.Zeta 7. ETA 8.theta 9. Iota and 10.kappa

[calm field]

@tidal shard I completely understand where you're coming from regarding the point of view of wave 1 alpha buyers.

Do you mind sharing in dot points what you think the downside of changing the price is and what the downside of keeping it the same is.

And potentially if you're down, the pros of each option too.

Would love to see what you think in a more concise format.

[royal ginkgo]

I'm going to echo my idea for way back then.

Just sell normal disks. Any disk loaded in the first week of the sale has an alpha stamp => You get the initial buyers.
After the first week all disks that are hoarded will never be alpha => long term holders will not have to pick and choose holding alphas/non alphas.

However with the first wave done, I'm against changing the model. I know this will be better for the DAO monetarily on the first look.
BUT stabbing your first supporters for greed is a shortcut for making a lot of people angry.

[tidal shard]

I will attempt brevity. Option 5 is what I recommend doing.

OPTION 1: Drop Price, Produce Less
Pro- Definite sell out. Flex.
Con - First Wave buyers feel cheated.
- Council may appear to be incompetent or scammy.
*I wouldn't do.

OPTION 2: Drop Price, Produce Same
Pro- Probably sell out
- Wave 1 rarity unaffected or increased
Con- Wave 1 buyers will still feel they spent too much

• If this option is done come up with something to increase the perception of value for Wave 1 Alphas.

OPTION 3: Price Same, Produce Less
Pro- Wave 1 buyers won't feel they spent too much.
- Make Alphas more rare for future
Con- Makes Wave 2 more rare than Wave 1
- Chance they won't sell out and with a reduced number that will look worse than if the number was the same.
*I wouldn't do.

OPTION 4: Keep it all the same.
Pro- Council and team show a belief in Wave 1 pricing
- Early investors in the project willing to put the money out are rewarded with more rare items.
Con: Sale could be crickets
I wouldn't do -there is no way every member on council will unite behind the price and pull off the "it's worth it" attitude needed

OPTION 5: Change from Alphas to Exclusives
Pro- Changing the name and the details that will appear on the Illuvitar gives you a new blank slate.
- Price can be changed, quantity can be changed.
- Won't have as much comparing to sales numbers in Wave 1
- Done correctly Wave 1 Alpha buyers will feel good for having spent so much more because they are the only ones to have Alphas.
- Alpha prices secondary could see an increase in price.
- Exclusive buyers still get a special product.
Con- It's already been said there would be Alphas in every Wave.
- More work for team
*This is what I would recommend doing.

Please excuse errors, no time to proof this as I need to get to call a customer.

[warm dawn]

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[cold depot]

I pretty much agree with everything Torial said, but I do think that option 2 would also be decent if you can make people that bought Wave 1 feel kinda special with what they bought.

Also to add to Option 5, it was said that there will be Alphas in every wave, but it was never really confirmed or voted on. If we can change the price, we can also change that there is no Alphas anymore.

[minor fiber]

Fantastic post here and above w.r.t. alienating customers/ilv image

[iron tiger]

I think the best idea is to not have any more alphas for set 1. Just sell standard and megas.

Pros- makes alphas exremely rare

• keeps them valuable
• gives time to see how the next waves do and can reaccess what to do for future sets.
• keeps your core/intial buyers happy

Cons

• possibly less money for DAO

[civic ferry]

My suggestion would be to sell the same quantity of each Wave 1 Alpha D1sk but cut Wave 2 Alpha prices in half compared to Wave 1 and double the supply of total Illuvitars available. This would be achieved by taking out 2 accessories in each D1sk and doubling the Illuvitar contents. So they would look like this:

Wave 2 Alpha Standard D1sk

• T0
• T0
• Random T1-5 Illuvitar
• Random T1-5 Illuvitar
• Random Accessory

Wave 2 Alpha Mega D1sk

• Random T1-5Illuvitar
• Random T1-5 Illuvitar
• Random T1-5 Illuvitar 1250+ power
• Random T1-5 Illuvitar 1250+ power
• Random Accessory

[cold depot]

Price differential should be way different then... Now it's wrong, this way would be even more... Apart from that, I think it a solid idea that can be talked about.

[steady tusk]

I like the idea of reducing accessories in a way higher price scenario for the how to go forward topic

I wonder if introducing a "mega pack" kinda thing, every 100 or so mega d1sk you get 5 1250+ illuvitars in a d1sk, another gacha factor, would be a good idea overall

But I still wonder about the sentiment around the alpha wave 1 buyers, maybe a poll or doc to gather feedback, could be a thing?

[cold depot]

I don't really like the "mega pack" proposal where you can get more lucky. I like your idea about different goals more often much more.

Poll is definitely a good idea and we would learn at least something from it.

[tidal shard]

Agree.
Although, it brings up a good option of changing Wave 2 Disk contents. However, if you are lowering the price the contents need to be much lower in potential value than what was offered in Wave 1 which had a higher price point. That definitely could be worked with though.

[tidal shard]

I like the idea of a poll but I think notifications should be sent to the email addresses that registered, not just an announcement on Discord, that it was happening. Also, even if it isn't weighted by how many Alphas someone opened or still owns, it should at least be done with wallet verification so that how many are owned can be viewed by council in light of their response. I am not saying that whales are the only ones to be listened to, it isn't about money spent, it's about holdings in relation to. If someone owns one Alpha Disk and spent $100,000 on Standards they may be just fine with a lowered dollar amount as opposed to someone who spent that $100,000 on Alphas.

[cold depot]

I think we are going to learn a lot from GameStop sale tomorrow as well.

[steady tusk]

yeah I think it should be gated to some extent to having bought or owning x-amount of alpha stuff

[cold depot]

In a Proposal, there is also a lot of talk about lowering prices for Regular Standard and Mega D1sks, but this conversation is mostly about Alphas.

I would like to see more research from the Marketing Sub-Council or the team about what would that bring and what are pros/cons.

From where I'm sitting:
Pros - more D1sks sold, people collecting more Illuvitars, more people filling collections, more people join Illuvium Beyond because of lower prices
Cons - accessory prices? tier 0 prices? what else

I would love to see more research and data about this.

[lone bay]

Why reduce the mega disks from 20k to 5k???

Keep the megas at 20k, its fine
Reduce the alpha standard disks to 50k or even as low as 40k since thats how much sold last time, because the value of non-mega disks when alpha is very low

If alphas are priced the same as regular disks then they will sell out, so why limit the supply further and actually make them rarer than the set1 wave1 alphas?

The only reason to not have them be quite the same price is that alphas do come with added scarcity and rarity, I would for that reason also be fine with the price being 1.5x that of normals and even 2x that for normals (although imo 1.5x is great)

Also a big fan of @steady tusk#0’s idea of giving everyone that bought a set 1 wave 1 alpha a free disk for every alpha disk they bought in wave 1, although i’d prefer it be an equivalent non-alpha disk so as not to make the entire alpha supply just disappear to people that already bought in wave 1… (but it does help make up for the deliriously over priced NFTs they purchased to support Illuvium, and shows everyone that those that support illuvium are supported in return…)

[tidal shard]

48 minutes away and we can start seeing how it goes.:)

[royal ginkgo]

I think with this sentiment. We just don't do anything. Let alphas for set 1 roll the way they were introduced. It's a free market. If less disks are bought, they will be more rare, so people will buy them up.

If we want to bring wave 1 alphas in line with wave 2 and reduce the price of wave 2 alphas. We have to increase the supply by the same multiplier and give to free disks to wave 1 minters.

Example. Reduce price 5x - 1 alpha mega disk = $50. Increase the supply 5x - 100k alpha mega disks. Give 4 more wave 1 alpha mega disks to whoever is the current holder or who loaded the disk. This will allow similar value for wave 2 to be proposed. And do the same for standard alpha disks.

Note. I'm oposed to this. I only brought it up as as an argument against changing alphas.

[wispy rapids]

I agree here

[wispy rapids]

I agree here

[wispy rapids]

Totally agree with it. Very disappointing for wave 1 alpha investors 😞

I prefer to have more power of alpha illuvitars like mybe 1.2 to 1.5x of normal binded illuvitars with same accessories...

[cold depot]

That's not possible as currently it's made that way that the Max power is 9999. Having extra multipliers would just broke that. Also there was a promise that Alpha Illuvitars will be the exact same thing, just more "rare". So I don't see us doing that ever.

[wispy rapids]

Option: Instead of changing alpha disk count, we could half the alpha disk price and put fixed amount of alpha disks as wave 1. We also need to compensate wave 1 alpha disk purchasers with 50% value per alpha disk back to them in Eth. That way wave 1 alpha buyers will not be left behind and proper justification to them by giving back 50% of disk price to them to match with wave 1 disk price.

[royal ginkgo]

This is unfeasible. Define wave 1 buyer? Someone who minted? Someone who bough on secondary? What if they flipped?

The only way to reduce price in new waves and preserve the value of old waves it to dillute old waves by airdropping to holders/loaders.

And this will suck for people who sold at a loss. Because they neither hold, nor loaded.

[lusty jungle]

Here is a simple proposal based on the inputs from Strategy Council, Team, and inputs from this chat namely @summer elbow's idea of burn mechanism for d1sks:

Summary:
This proposal addresses the community's concerns regarding the pricing and demand for alpha d1sks during wave 1. The primary objective is to ensure the sellout of d1sks while achieving the right balance between value, scarcity, and affordability. To accomplish this, we propose lowering prices and quantities to match those sold in wave 1. Additionally, a redemption program is suggested to compensate alpha wave 1 holders who paid higher prices by offering them an option to redeem a standard d1sk from the current set and wave by burning an alpha wave 1 illuvitar at the time of redemption.

Objective:
The primary objective of this proposal is to ensure the sellout of d1sks while achieving the following secondary objectives:

1. Lowering prices and quantities to match those sold in wave 1 to address community concerns and align with perceived value.
2. Providing compensation and value to alpha wave 1 purchasers through the redemption program, allowing them to acquire a standard d1sk from the set and wave at the time of redemption.

Rationale:

1. Lower Quantity to Match Wave 1:
   By reducing the quantity of d1sks to the same level as wave 1, we create a sense of scarcity and urgency, encouraging community members to make a purchase. This strategy helps to drive demand and increase the likelihood of a sellout.

2. Lower Prices to Reflect Demand and Perceived Value:
   Adjusting the prices of d1sks to be twice the price of regular d1sks ensures that the alpha variant is seen as exclusive and valuable. By lowering the prices from their initial level, we aim to attract more buyers who were deterred by the previous pricing, thus increasing the chances of a sellout.

3. Redemption Program for Alpha Wave 1 Holders:
   The introduction of a redemption program addresses the concerns of alpha wave 1 holders who paid higher prices. By allowing them to exchange their alpha wave 1 illuvitar for a standard d1sk from the current set and wave, we provide them with an opportunity to acquire a d1sk of equivalent value without additional costs. This initiative fosters goodwill and encourages participation from alpha wave 1 holders.

If this idea gets more traction I can refine this further and post it separately.

[cold depot]

I'm not a fan of that proposal at all.

1. Why is the primary objective ensuring a sellout?
2. Mega D1sks were all sold out and I have no idea why we need to have less Standard D1sks. Why would we limit them to 40k or something? Just put the right pricing on them so they are worth buying.... But even with the fixed pricing, I'm not sure how many are people are buying them. What was the expected number of Regular vs Mega D1sks sold from Wave 1?
3. I don't know what kind of Compensation is one Standard D1sk. I paid $200+ for a D1sk, got unlucky, but now I can burn that and get a $8 D1sk?

[wispy rapids]

Good point. 200$ vs less than 10$ d1sk doesn't sound balanced

[lusty jungle]

1. that has always been the goal. To sellout alphas through driving demand and providing value

2)mega disks sold out due to the value difference it had vs standard d1sks. There's no difference with alpha wave 1 and future waves which means the value is still the same which means we won't sellout standards due to lack of demand.

3. check out all alpha illuvitars bottom prices for t2 to t0 on the market. How much are they around 3usd. If you can convert that to a new wave d1sk for no cost and get 2 additional illuvitars who might be worth more than your 3usd t0 illuvitar plus get 3 more accessories. Will that be worth it or not?

[lusty jungle]

You're looking at price point of how much you bought the d1sks. Look at it as what the value of your alpha illuvitars are and potential value you can get out of it by redeeming.

[wispy rapids]

It could be good in a way that you can choose which illuvitar you want to burn and get d1sk for it. This way we can retain valuable illuvitar and burn the ones that we dont want and get wave 2 d1sk

[lusty jungle]

That's the idea. You choose which alpha illuvitar you want to redeem at the time you want to redeem it. It's not time bound to wave 2. Can be in wave 3 or 4. Or set 2 etc.

Got a sad 40 power t0 worth 3usd? Redeem for a standard d1sk and roll the dice you might get something better.

[wispy rapids]

This sounds good compensation for wave 1 alpha holder.

[royal ginkgo]

3. check out all alpha illuvitars bottom prices for t2 to t0 on the market. How much are they around 3usd. If you can convert that to a new wave d1sk for no cost and get 2 additional illuvitars who might be worth more than your 3usd t0 illuvitar plus get 3 more accessories. Will that be worth it or not?
   This is BS. And even proposing this is BS, because people will go and buy 3 dollar alphas, this won't get passed. And they will get even more rekt.

[cold depot]

That's just silly. Making people morons. Hey, you bought something for $200 and now it's not worth anything now, but here is a chance of getting another $1,65 Illuvitar. That's life....

We can't market something like: get a super rare D1sk that will have a really rare Illuvitar that will be worth something in the future because you were the first one here. And then 3 months later: naaah, it was wrong.... but you can get the cheapest d1sk for free because you spent $200 and were unlucky.

Something like that can work, but this as to be a joke and a punch to the face to everyone that bought Alphas in Wave 1.

2. Alpha D1sks are wrongly priced. Because Standards are not worth 5x less than Megas, they are worth way less.....

[lusty jungle]

You forget that its the free market who priced alpha t0s at 3usd. Nothing is changing that value. If anything by redeeming you're actually deflationary and makes remaining alpha wave 1 be more scarce.

Agree with 2. It's wrongly priced. That's why there's a move to correct that. But you need to think about the alpha wave 1 purchasers too.

[cold depot]

The promise and the idea of Alphas being worth something in the future is still there. You can't just smash that against the wall now by telling people they lost $200 because they were unlucky.

There is still an idea that we are going to have 20k owners one day or 50k or 100k or even more. And then Wave 1 Alphas might be worth something.

We should be pushing towards giving them more value and rewarding people who were here on the first day of the sale. Not giving them a random cheapest D1sk there is if they want to burn their Illuvitar they overpaid for.

2. I'm not talking only about Alphas compared to Regulars. But also Standard Alpha compared to Mega Alpha....

[lusty jungle]

Which is why it's an option. No one's gonna force you to redeem your wave 1 illuvitars. If you believe that it's still worth the price you paid then you get to hold it. Those who feel it's not worth the value can redeem.

We're addressing an unfortunate issue if we push to lower prices for future alpha waves. And with this it's actually win-win either way. Holders get the option for future waves which saves them money and at the same time reduces the overall supply benefiting all wave 1 holders.

Your statement is the current reality already. People gambled on alpha d1sks at x price which yielded low value t0-t2s at y price. This proposal doesn't change that fact.

[wispy rapids]

People spent lots of money to purchase mega alpha d1sks and if we have an option to exchange illuvitar coming from it and get standard wave 2 d1sk? Many people only purchased mega alpha d1sks to get higher power illuvitar and they maynot be having those low power illuvitar in exchange of just normal stadard d1sk. Alpha standard wave 1 d1sk holders may get better option to get standard d1sk of wave 2 but not for mega d1sk illuvitar holders. It may also trigger people to go after lower tier illuvitars in chance to get new standard d1sk of wave 2. We also can't ignore that many of original alpha illuvitars d1sk purchasers may have already sold cheaper illuvitars by assuming that they willnot increase in price much so they loose their chance to get new standard d1sk for that lower power alpha illuvitars

I still believe it doesn't provide justification for wave1 alpha mega d1sks illuvitars and we have main problem there only as they were so expensive illuvitar d1sks and no way it can justify to get standard disk of wave 2. Imagine people who spent most of their money for alpha mega d1sk purchase and they get less alpha d1sks compare to standard alpha d1sks and finally they get very less number of chances to get less number of standard wave 2 d1sks and thats not proper justification fo very first major investors of alpha mega d1sks of wave 1.

[lusty jungle]

Love to hear how it's BS in your opinion. That's the whole point of ideas. Throw in all perspectives to come up with a potential solution.

But just stating BS with nothing to base it on doesn't add value to the discussion.

Also, if people speculate and buy the illuvitars now that's caveat emptor. Until it's officially approved people are just speculating and therefore accept their own risk.

[lusty jungle]

Other than giving out free alphas for every d1sk sold during alpha wave 1, there's nothing that will properly address this. You're just making the overall supply saturated and ruining the total supply. And I'm not in favor of this approach or any approach that the dao gives out free d1sks.

For those who want to game the setup there's 2 approaches to it. It drives the lower alpha illuvitars prices up which is good to the holders, those who sold theirs got back some of their value for the low illuvitars they got and would have probably not sell it in the first place. And deflationary mechanism making all alpha illuvitars become more scarce.

[ripe drum]

@lusty jungle do i get it right, if i say this proposal is just for 1 reason... marketing can say last wave got sold out in xx hours?
what happens if game is out, and we have factor x more people who wana buy alpha disks? Are we going to switch parameters again?

[wispy rapids]

I would prefer to have discount distribution to alpha wave 1 holders with below conditions applied

1. all original disk purchasers who still holds the illuvitar minted from the disks
2. People who still holds alpha disks
3. People who purchased in secondary market and hold it or opened disk and holding illuvitar of it

I believe the above people are only actually people who should get discount and if you have sold your alpha illuvitars then you are not eligible to get discount.

It also make sure that alpha mega d1sk holders get their mega d1sk discount and alpha standard d1sk holders get their alpha standard d1sk based discount.

Discount can be anything like aridroping ILV or anything else...

[lusty jungle]

It's 3 reasons but all help to achieve the goal of ensuring its a successful event through minting out.

Personally, I'd rather we don't anymore. That's over 60k d1sks in alpha. It's more than enough and later on will just drive the value higher cause of scarcity vs demand.

But we're a dao. It's not outside the realm when we're at millions dau and demand is higher we are forced to address this in the future through another iccp.

[ripe drum]

sure thing with the dao.

[royal ginkgo]

It's simple with 15 to 10 it's a waste of time to push more here. What about all alpha holders, how do we ask them about this?

[lusty jungle]

Discount is a good approach but I'd not put it for alphas. It'll be for regular d1sks and time bound to one wave? Will people be happy with that?

Applying to alpha means you skew the supply again 😞

[ripe drum]

i just feel like, we need to increase scarcity because we are pre open beta with a still small community, and would be an adavantage for marketing are not really worthy reasons to mess arround with alpha disks. But maybe thats just me, or i did get the proposal totally wrong 😄

[royal ginkgo]

There's no need to do anything. The game is not even out there. We haven't seen how this plays out. There's 0 usage for illuvitars if you're not a top 100 holder.

[lusty jungle]

Your position is the price of alpha illuvitars be maintained and not adjusted?

[cold depot]

Is there a reason we can't just scrap Alphas, or have them only for Wave 1 of every Set. There are no collections that are Alpha only. Nobody will miss them.

[cold depot]

I disagree with you. There was never gonna be any usage. Same as collecting Panini stickers (in my mind). It's just collecting. Only problem I have with it is: it's really expensive to collect anything and not a lot of people will be able to collect all of them.

I don't think we are getting more usage once the game is out, we're just getting more interest.

[wispy rapids]

Addition of alpha collection is not a bad option without changing any parameters for upcoming alpha wave sale. Atleast people know that they need alphas to fill the albums. We may need some serious discussion on rewards or attracting more people to fill the leaderboard though

[royal ginkgo]

Yes. The free market will balance it out. If people don't buy many, they'll be more scarce, so they'll buy more. And demand grows with users.

[royal ginkgo]

They can be used ingame for leaderboard avatar and a hinted potential card game.

[cold depot]

They can be used already, but you don't need 2 of them for that, so the main focus is collecting.

Card game is just an idea and nothing we should be thinking about.

[royal ginkgo]

Yes, but now there are more illuvitars than players. There will come a time when the opposite is true. And many of them will need to have something more than a generic image.

[wispy rapids]

This could be right as people will realise towards end of timed alpha sale that they are loosing opportunity to get rare alpha because of less alpha d1sk sold then they go and purchase more towards end of sale.

[ripe drum]

don't think there will be a game where not illuvials/ranger are the main actor in the mechanics.

[cold depot]

There will never be more players than Illuvitars. Maybe more players than Wave 1 Illuvitars, or even Set 1 Illuvitars. But not Illuvitars.

[royal ginkgo]

Now if GS sells out we'll be at around 394k illuvitars. If the game launches we can easily get to 1 mil players.

[civic ferry]

What he is saying is as you get more players more illuvitars will be bought and players will always lag illuvitar supply

[cold depot]

But there is also Wave 2 coming. And then Wave 3. And then Wave 4....

[royal ginkgo]

True but you're speculating here that not that many disks will sell at these conditions, so which one is it? Will disks sell regardless or will they become much more scarce?

Why isn't Aaron here? He's the one who championed alphas. Don't we need to hear his thoughts before we make plans to change stuff?

[light plover]

Aaron is just one person in the DAO

[civic ferry]

The main problem with all this is we are tapping into the same well until we get a bigger player base.

[cold depot]

Yeah, I would like to hear more from every council member. What are their thoughts? I would also love to hear if there was some research or numbers that can back up the decisions that are about to be made...

[royal ginkgo]

Yeah right. So when I went against him to change alphas before wave 1 it was a fair fight?

[cold depot]

To be fair. Only thing Aaron had over you is more influence in Illuvium community. In the end it was Council that made that decision....

[tidal shard]

@lusty jungle
imagine you go buy a painting because you like it. You chat with the artist and he convinces you to buy a bunch more because he will keep them rare and the chance is good of a future profit for you. A couple months later you see he has dropped the price 400%. You stop in to find out what happened and he says, "Yeah, I'm really sorry, my bad but here's some $10 scratch and win tickets for you. You could potentially win more than what I told you those paintings would be worth!" You go home and look at the paintings you bought. How do you feel about them? Has their value changed in your mind? How likely would you be to invest in that artist again?

I don't have the numbers sitting in front of me. You guys do. You can analyze them and try to determine what will help or hurt Illuvium. At the end of the day that's what's important. I would just be really cautious because you don't want people who are investing in Illuvium to feel like they are trying to fire arrows at a moving target.

On the upside this new idea does have the potential of increasing rarity of Wave 1 and that is a positive thing. 🙂

[devout shard]

We’re changing all of this stuff but why don’t we just go back to the original idea for illuvitars before alohas were even added. Just get rid of alphas. They did horribly. If we just get rid of them, then the wave one will definitely be rare and we don’t have to speculate on wha to price it at. Keep the same price if you want first edition, set it it to 24 hours and then let the sale carry on. The original idea for illuvitars after the first price change had everyone excited. And then they added alphas and everyone got upset. So they lowered the price again, people were still upset at alphas but happy the other price was now lower. The sale did not go well. Just go back to the original prices we had set when people were excited.

[iron tiger]

Exactly! I have said it a couple times on this thread. Just get rid of the alphas for the upcoming waves.

Can someone please give me a good reason why we need to keep alphas going for this set? We can start up alphas again for set 2...

[tidal shard]

I also would like to know the reason council doesn't seem interested in that option.

[glossy parrot]

I would like to hear Aaron's opinion on it, he is the one with the long-term vision for Illuvium which no council member is privy to, so we really can't have an opinion without more information. Btw I am not against stopping Alpha sales altogether

[swift storm]

Without alphas, you remove the potential of a large auction for the missed alpha prints. The auction could be a big spectacle, draw a crowd, have a massive sale of ?maybe? 10-50Eth for multiple individual assets and thereby make Illuvium stand out in a similar way to Bored apes.

I think the auction could be a phenomenal marketing tool once the first set of Illuvitars is over and the open beta has been out for a little while.

Is it necessary for me? No, not really as i am priced out at 0.5 eth lol, but if Illuvium can get that 50Eth auction going, wouldnt that spike interest in the project and thereby the game? What type of influx of players would we get?

While i dont know the importance of having a big event like that, i think the Marketing sub-council should be able to assess its potential and decide whether it is worth the effort of continuing with alpha versions.

At this point, however, it may be difficult to assess the impact of an event like this, that has never happened before, with possibly a very different market sentiment. So I personally would hesitate to just do away with the Alphas altogether.

[rustic cypress]

There are other ways to put up misprint auctions

Like those who dont got a specific background etc. dont have to be alpha

[tidal shard]

👍
(Missing my emojis)

[swift storm]

I would argue that it is a lot more interesting to say: "Some Alpha ones werent minted so we mint them now to ensure that one album could potentially be wholly alpha"

Rather than: "these Illuvitars are exactly the same as the ones before but have a different background."

Pricing will then also stay within certain boundries:
If a T5 S2 background has already been found once, would you sell the T5 S3? If you did, it would devalue the previous strongest, making them sad, and it would just be a slightly stronger version of the T5 S2 of which only 1 existed. Even Stage 4 T1 backgrounds only have a single holo of an Illuvial sometimes.

I doubt it would be special enough to warrant whales to go ham over them. I wouldnt go super crazy over the alpha stamps either, so i guess idk if backgrounds would be special enough.

[rustic cypress]

Like every holo with t5 s3 background but the misprint background is not the same color its a Special misprint color. Just one example

[vestal oracle]

I think the team is feeling the same way, that delaying Set 1 Wave 2 closer to late August/September or end of year makes sense.

[vestal oracle]

To clarify from my side, the expansion of the Leaderboard is trivial, ideating some ways to reward top 500/1000 is relatively trivial.

Adding a fragment system would be far more challenging and would mean pulling resource away from the Games right now. (Not that this isn't possible medium-long term but we wouldn't be able to drop everything to implement this in the next 3-months).

Sorry didn't mean to make the Fragment portion of the idea sound completely achievable immediately.

As it exists right now, we can make changes to the Sale Config with a relatively low impact on Backend Resource (D1SK quantities, Length of Sale, Rarity Values, Pricing etc)

Making dramatic changes to core functionality of the Sale would involve a rewrite, and would require far greater investment in a redesign/overhaul which we absolutely don't want right now.

As it exists today, the Backend Team is laser focussed on the Core Game Products as well as addressing some Account related login issues.

That isn't to say we shouldn't begin planning and documenting dramatic changes and refining the ideas now alongside the Game Design team and council.

[tidal shard]

They are not guaranteed to be 1/1 due to unopened D1sks so don't know if they would go as high as that?

If we want to try to get that much though, I think rarity and perception of value would be even more important. Alphas priced higher and only happening Wave 1 of each set with the missed prints of those already more exclusive D1sks are easier to brand as rare.

I think you are right though, it can definitely be a great marketing tool. Will be interesting to see how the first one plays out.

After posting I went to the Illuvidex site and see the Wave 2 Alphas being promoted so guess that answers the question of whether we can scrap them

[leaden pendant]

All good Nick! Appreciate the clarity 😄

[leaden pendant]

With this defined I think the DAO has two suitable options

1. No more Alpha Sales moving forward

2. Alpha Sales moving forward at the regular Standard & MEGA D1SK Price, but with a compensation package distributed to all OG Alpha D1SK Minters who minted at the 500% Premium.

I think this compensation package should be for every 1x Alpha Mega D1SK Minted

1x Wave 2 Alpha Mega D1Sk
1x Wave 3 Alpha Mega D1SK
1x Wave 4 Alpha Mega D1SK
1x Wave 5 Alpha Mega D1SK

Ontop of the

1x Random Emote D1SK that every Alpha Minter is already receiving

For Alpha Standards as well, the same but with Standards instead of Megas.

This would be a colossal win for the community and really show a level of appreciation, respect and support for the biggest supporters in the Illuvium Ecosystem that constantly put their money where their mouth is to support this project. This would also create large exciting opening events around every new wave launch and get the core community excited about new upcoming waves and all the Illuvials that may be inside them while the package gives them a small taste of the collection.

The Revenue has already been frontloaded with the Alpha Sale and I think working toward retaining and satisfying existing customers, creating excitement around future Illuvitar expansions and getting people hyped to fill their albums are some of the core goals we want to achieve.

Alphas should have never had a premium and should have been what an Alpha tag actually is, a nice small bonus to reward the biggest fans of Illuvium, the early supporters, the core that turn out regardless because they want to show their appreciation.

We should be rewarding and providing fair and exciting offers to our biggest supporters, not fleecing them with 500% Premium $200 Alpha D1SKs and $50 single JPEG Gamestop D1SKs where 85% of them upon being opened yielded a common DOKA/Archie that at least in the short term is struggling to hold 20% of the D1SKs price tag on secondary markets, this will probably further chop down to 5-10%.
GME drop is really showing us how we've pushed the community too far, not really respected or developed our products & packages heavily enough to offer the level of value we're trying to sell them for. We need to seriously consider taking a swift turn to improving what we are offering. If the Illuvium DAO wants to be the Leading Web3 Gaming Studio, we need to start acting like it with what we offer our customers.

[vestal oracle]

Agreed, I'd like to see us re-align around Alpha rewarding those that purchased D1SKs as the sale commences to reflect what a 'first edition/first run' of physical cards resembles.

[royal ginkgo]

I like the compensation, but I have to disagree to reward minters. Many of minters were just arbitraging sILV2 into ETH.

Current holders and people who loaded the alpha disks should be compensated.

P.S. I agree with your sentiment about the general direction.

[leaden pendant]

It's a tough one to cut, there's also many scenarios where people very rightfully so got incredible frustrated by the lack of contents in a $200 D1SK after they saw someone pull something the same/better out of a regular D1SK, sold it at a crushing loss and moved on. Also many scenarios where they sold 1 and held 1 to cover a portion of the D1SK or trade up for accessories, more Illuvitars, a huge amount of trading happened in the community around the introduction of the Leaderboards. Either way you screw people over and exclude potential customers. I think rewarding those that directly contributed minting out the Alpha sale is marginally the best approach, it gets very messy otherwise and you end up heavily rewarding people that might have just bought a $2-10 T0 or Archie on secondary.

[royal ginkgo]

Let me clarify. People who hold disks now - either minted or bought on secondary. Those deserve to get compensation.
But what to do for people who did not hold disks. The compensation should go to the wallet that loaded the disk. Not to who owns the illuvitars inside it.

People who loaded the disks are the ones who took the risk/opportunity of loading an expensive disk.

[leaden pendant]

Certainly could be one of the fairest options. But all Milestones & Rewards were based simply on just minting, might seem weird to change criteria up and require significantly more complex data extraction & compiling, whereas we already have the data set from Minters that'll be getting dropped the EMOTE D1SKs anyway. If it's not too complex technically, it's worth considering imo, just thinking it may be a significant amount of Admin work to really separate out that data and D1SKs on the Blockchain are all under the same umbrella and there's been like 180,000+ opened now. But regardless, we are getting wayyy too ahead ourselves with this. There's a lot of discussion to be had before.

I'm also fine with Alpha Sales not taking place again. I don't think it's the right move to do anymore anywhere close to the debut pricing.

[royal ginkgo]

I've been pushing for giving players/investors more. Especially when it's at a zero cost for the DAO. We want to foster grateful community. We want to be generous. And we have to keep in mind anything we give for "free" potentially will bring more people into our community and royalties. The work for the disks/illuvitars and album has already been done. The DAO giving more disks or selling them for cheaper with 0 minting fees is plain simple and easy. Why didn't we give more with GS disks? We could #1116637326253248512 this could come back to the DAO as extra revenue. Such things are simple to do. We can grow the DAO by giving more.

[tidal shard]

This. All of this.

Cancel it or do a decent compensation like this.

[wispy rapids]

I agree with seatin here

[wispy rapids]

Exactly

[wispy rapids]

I agree

1. all original disk purchasers who still holds the d1sks or minted illuvitar from the disks
2. People who purchased alpha d1sks in secondary market and hold it or minted illuvitars in it

I believe the above people are only actually people who should get compensation as they are the holders of original alpha d1sks or minted illuvitars

[vestal oracle]

No further comment from me regarding what we should/shouldn't do as the above makes perfect sense in my eyes.

I'd just echo the fact that getting this right for everyone that participated and pushing the product forward making it more accessible and enjoyable for the wider community is of critical importance to the team and council.

Just want to ensure you guys understand we're listening.

[rustic cypress]

you guys are the best. thats why we are here

[nova linden]

10000% agree

[iron tiger]

I completely agree with Seatin. Thanks a lot Nick for your input and the teams/council willingness to listen!

[wispy rapids]

I love @leaden pendant 's option 2 . That is fair valuation for first wave premium alpha buyers

[devout shard]

I mean I’m all for option 2 and free stuff but it doesn’t seem like the council was fond of that

[wispy rapids]

It has risk of getting rejected 😞

[steady tusk]

I like the idea

[glossy parrot]

This idea would most likely result in there being more Alpha Illuvitars in wave 2-5 than regular Illuvitars

[tidal shard]

The more I think on it the more I really like Seatin's option.

It even helps solve how the drop in the price looks because 10 years from now it will just be remembered that Alpha OGs bought in and got 1 D1sk out of every 5 waves.

Really brilliant.

Thanks Nick for listening. It really is appreciated.

[wispy rapids]

Perfect way to make first wave alpha purchasers happy.... i hope this get passed in council ❤️ 🙏

[nova wind]

I need to preface this by saying I understand the sentiment being expressed by Alpha Wave 1 buyers with regards to a price and quantity change. It's understandable, and we need to find a solution that will work for everyone. To be completely transparent, the vast majority of my personal Illuvitar purchases were Alpha d1sks.

However, I need to outline why Option 2 expressed by Seatin is NOT in the best interest of the DAO, and (not by design) why it is ponzinomics.

Putting feelings aside, what does a solution like this do?

Wave 2: We're going to have 20k Alpha Mega disks minted and distributed for free. All those free disks aren't free, they will directly impact the prices of any Illuvitar pulled from a paid disk. We're literally disincentivizing new people from participating in Beyond by creating a ton of "value" out of nothing, and giving it to our OGs. We're pulling value from new, paying participants, and giving it to existing participants who are no longer paying. That's ponzinomics.

Put yourself in the shoes of a newcomer. Would you buy a d1sk if you knew that someone who came before you was getting a massive stack of d1sks for free because they were here earlier than you?

Worse still, we're setting that precedent for not one wave, but for 4 additional waves. So for 4 waves, we're considering implementing a system that is going to turn rational new buyers away from participating. That's not a net benefit for the DAO.

The pinnacle success case for Illuvium has always been, and still is, mass adoption. We need to be very diligent when we think about solutions to ensure we're not creating insular systems that disincentivize new people from participating. That's the core premise behind fair launch for Open Beta, and I'm personally of the belief that it needs to be applied to all our products. Simply having more people participating and interested is the absolute best thing we can do to support Alpha Wave 1 owners.

With all that said, do we need to find a solution that ensures Alpha Wave 1 buyers aren't getting left out in the cold? Absolutely we do. It's just not this solution. I do appreciate the sentiment behind this idea, but I feel obligated to identify the core issues I see with it.

As Nick mentioned earlier, this feedback is being heard, and we will continue to work towards a better solution.

I'm also in agreement that we need to cool off on the frequency of sales, we can't continue to oversell products. Waiting on Wave 2 makes perfect sense to me, and I'm 100% on board with that idea.

[wispy rapids]

Isnt the OG investors already paid 5x the price in first place? It would be like they have paid for all 5 wave alpha disks in advance... we need to make sure those first OG alpha investors get what they deserves.

[nova wind]

I'll reiterate - I agree with the sentiment, but trying to give them that value at the cost of new people entering into Beyond is not appropriate to me.

The sentiment is valid, the specific solution is (to me), not a route we should take. Ponzinomics doesn't become a good business model just because you're towards the top of the triangle.

[wispy rapids]

If we think it might affect new alpha buyers in next wave then other option is to airdrop ILV or Eth of equivalent value of exta price paid by premium alpha investors. This will make sure that it will not affect the next wave alpha sale as we are not distributing alpha disks.

[cold depot]

Quick drunk idea about sale postpone, which I agree with.... what if we continue with the wave 1 sale for another month or two. Would that be that bad? At least we are earning some money, we can keep collecting something. If we don't do anything. Leaderboard will stay pretty much the same for the next 3 months and we are just giving away ILV for nothing. Leaderboard rewards are here to encourage and stimulate buying and bonding, if there is nothing happening, nobody cares and we are just wasting rewards....

All thought I am for postponing if needed, we need to think about that aspect as well.

[nova wind]

What if we changed the Alpha model, kept 5x pricing (existing Alpha owners have not paid more), but changed the sale duration or quantity?

Also, have Alpha Wave 1 disks changed recently? I checked mine earlier, they are the exact same product I originally paid for. I bought them knowing what they were, and they are still the exact same product. I may be a minority here, but at no point have I experienced buyers remorse over Alphas. Plus, they are getting a stamp to further improve them. That's gonna be awesome when I'm rocking it in-game.

[cold depot]

I don't think we can lower the quantity. I think that's the worst option there is. Making every Alpha Wave apart from Wave 1 more rare. Imagine having twice as many Rhamphyres than all other Tier 5 Stage 3 Illuvitars combined. How do you explain that to people that were here for Wave 1 Alphas?

[nova wind]

By creating a better system that will cause much more adoption, there are benefits for all involved parties, including Wave 1 buyers. More people involved creates more demand for all assets, including Alpha Wave 1's.

To be clear, I'm not advocating for any particular solution, I'm just identifying that diluting the next 4 waves with copious amounts of free disks may not be the ideal solution people think it may be.

[cold depot]

I never said that is the best solution, i’m just on another side saying that we can’t lower the quantity because of reasons mentioned above. There is no perfect solution, but I think that ain’t it.

[glossy parrot]

No matter what we do, it is highly unlikely that we will be able to sell as many Alphas as we did in Wave 1 until a game is released. The only way we could potentially achieve this is by significantly lowering the price, which would enable us to sell more Wave 2 Alphas. However, it's important to note that Wave 1 Alphas will always retain their special status, regardless of their quantity.

Wave 1 Alphas were the first!

[devout shard]

Most of the council minus viper. Viper is trying advocating hard for the core community that bought into alphas and I love you for that

[long hollow]

Well, unfortunately I don't understand why the Alphas are so much more expensive than the normal discs. That's very rude. I think the prices for them should be lowered, otherwise they will probably be bought less and less in the future. I think alpha should be more of a reward for supporting and believing in the project early on. This is how supporters are somehow exploited. I mean they are exactly the same illuvitars, with the same backgrounds and assesuars. So for the same price as Wave 1 I will not buy Alphas in Wave 2. In my opinion, alphas have no added value that somehow justifies the price.

[lusty jungle]

It's an economics problem. 20k-40k standard and 20k alphas. That means you ate up all the allotment for wave 2 alphas. If you add to the total supply you devalued alphas wave 2 with a surplus of "free" illuvitars. Which may also mean less sales even for regular d1sks.

I'm more inclined to give a discount than mess with the supply. Or just remove alphas altogether which I'm leaning more and more but it comes at the cost of losing a revenue channel. But if the prices are going to be the same as regular d1sks then it's better to not have alphas and maintain the current value of existing alphas as is.

[devout shard]

Oh I totally agree with you on that front. L

[worn schooner]

I think Blickter is right that giving them away for free would discourage newcomers from buying them.
So, as a suggestion, why not give away the original NFT to Alpha buyers Wave1?
This would make the Alpha Wave1 really special!

It would also make it easier for newcomers by lowering the price from Wave2 onwards, and those who bought Alpha Wave1 would be happy to get their hands on a special NFT.
I think Alpha Wave1 should be special, not a failure.

[glossy parrot]

How about a special Illuvitar themed NFT digitally signed by the one and only Rogier. I know I would want one 😁

[worn schooner]

Anything special would be good🤣

[wispy rapids]

I believe if we dont plan anything special for alpha apart from stamp, it need to have lower purchase price and for that reason, it is essential to reward wave 1 alpha purchasers as they paid premium price for it.

[glossy parrot]

Tbh I bought 5 Alpha disk and I wouldn't be mad if I didn't get anything, I just want the project to succeed

[nova linden]

what about 4x coupons for alpha wave 1 minters

50% off each alpha d1sk

[tidal shard]

We all want the project to succeed. The reason I am talking about it and not giving up is because I know how damaging to a business something like this can be.

[glossy parrot]

I feel you, some people might not feel the same way I do which is understandable

[tidal shard]

They would be pre-paid D1sks not free D1sks. It isn't that uncommon in either Web3 or traditional stores for early customers/community to have access to benefits due to being there first. The numbers though are an issue that I didn't think about enough.

[leaden pendant]

I’m sorry, you lost me when you suggested fairly compensating customers that got charged a 500% premium on a $200 JPEGs would be comparable to a Ponzi, I couldn’t disagree with everything you said more.

People aren’t getting these D1SKs for free, they paid $200, when they should of paid $40, this is a fair pricing restructure with a fair compensation package.

Demand for Illuvitars can go into the 200,000-500,000+ D1SK region per wave if the reward economy, leaderboard and upcoming burning Mechanisms for substance outlined by Aaron are managed correctly.

[wispy rapids]

I personally invested huge in alpha wave 1 with megad1sks purchase. You can imagine my position and pain if wave 2 alpha comes with less d1sks and low in purchase price...

[wispy rapids]

I agree with @leaden pendant , first wave 1 alpha purchasers already paid premium price so they should be rewarded correctly and provide proper justification

[royal ginkgo]

If we're trying to bring mass adoption, then airdropping alpha disks in future waves will reduce the cost of entry due to supply dilution. We can always incentive people to buy with the goals system. So I stand with Seatin on this one. If future disks will cost less, then people have already prepaid for them.

[wispy rapids]

Exactly

[cold depot]

I have to disagree with you. 5 years from now nobody will care you opened Rhamphyre few months before Ophisto if there are 55 Rhamphyres and only 5 Ophistos. Also, nobody will care how much somebody paid to get them 5 years ago. The price will be set according to the demand and Ophisto would be worth 10x more (in this fictional scenario)....

[light plover]

Thats not how price works

[cold depot]

How does it work then?

[light plover]

There are many factors that go into price not just the supply

[vestal oracle]

For me the most important thing is re-aligning the price to ensure we're having fun, filling collections, trading, hodling, and fighting for the leaderboard positions.

While I don't think we should be quick to cry 'compensation' and 'free stuff', I think in this case we definitely need the Councils to distill this feedback into a report for the IMC/Admins as a matter of priority. [IMO there is enough in this discussion thus far for us to draft a report]

Airdropping future wave D1SKs as compensation must come with a very strict set of qualifying rules.

Personally I love the thought of standardizing the price, and simply having Alpha as a bonus for the people that bought when the Sale first went live. [For example, First 10K mega D1SK Sold are Alpha]

[cold depot]

Would that mean changing the price of Regular D1SKs?

There is always a question around the community about how much should a competitive deck cost?

But.... How much should collecting 25 Illuvitars from one Wave cost?

(Currently the price is around $2,500 mostly because of Rhamphyre buying from secondary)

[vestal oracle]

I don't mind $9-10 for a standard, $20-40 for a Mega.

I remember paying similar prices for Pokemon and other TCGs growing up.

[visual rover]

I personnally think they should've been the same price since the beginning. Pricing in the "potential re-sale value" is something i'm not a fan of.

1st Edition of Pokémon cards was back in the day, just the regular pack of cards and i think Alphas should follow the same reasoning.

I support this idea.

[vestal oracle]

100%

[cold depot]

Is there a possibility of not giving away Alpha D1SKs to Alpha Wave 1 buyers like Seatin idea. But instead giving people "credit" that they can use to buy any D1SKs they want?

[visual rover]

yeah these prices seem about right, but @cold depot also has a point there. How much do we want it to cost on average to complete a wave?

perhaps this has more to do with the odds of D1sks than with pricing itself though.

(team 250$ spent in the Gamestop partnership to get 4 dokas and an Archie xD)

[vestal oracle]

Unfortunately, it's not something the Illuvidex currently supports. Attempting to do this could leave people feeling burnt if they missed out while also requiring significant investment.

What we can do is look at wallets that hold X number of Alpha's relatively easy and we can bulk airdrop with relative ease.

I need to head to bed, will catch up asap when I wake up.

[visual rover]

gn mate, thanks for the hard work as always

[cold depot]

I think is pretty hard to change D1SK odds right now for regular D1SKs. But I thinks it's silly that it's so hard to collect anything in Promo D1sks.(After 1/3rd of Promo D1SKs sold only 2 people can fill the whole collection)

[nova linden]

so its not who minted the alpha but those who currently hold one?

[vestal oracle]

Before I go, the answer is we need to really have a think about what this looks like.

As it exists we can easily query IMX for data. It's much harder to go back in time and see who minted what & when.

[nova linden]

got it thanks! gn nick!

[leaden pendant]

Just thinking, but this particular data set already needs to be pulled for the Emote D1SK airdrop anyway right?

[wispy rapids]

Whoever is eligible for emote disk airdrop, they would get compensation as well as @leaden pendant just pointed out. It should be as simple as that... isn't it?

[tidal shard]

Was just thinking this too.
Besides, it's valuable info for the marketing team to know anyway.

[vestal oracle]

Yes I suppose this could work

[ancient grove]

Big fan of the alpha disks being the same price, but agree there would need to be some form of compensation for those who bought alphas in the first set

[vestal oracle]

Agreed

Does everyone feel as though they have had a chance to input on this topic? I think we're in a fine spot to draw a line in the sand and hand this back to council to take forward?

[rustic cypress]

Yes, good discussion

[nova linden]

good inputs 🫡

[tidal shard]

👍
I agree with what Seatin has brought forward. There is no perfect solution but I think it is the best and is in no way ponzinomics.

[royal ginkgo]

I'm looking forward to an updated idea.

[vestal oracle]

Awesome - thanks guys

[wispy rapids]

Agreed

[wet bear]

Alpha D1sks for Wave2 (and beyond) should cost the same as non-alpha D1sks IMO.

Cap again at 20K megas and 100k standard D1sks for a fixed price.

Maybe sell unlimited amount of Alpha mega/standard D1sks with a rising price after 20k megas/ 100k standard sold out. The more people buy the more expensive they get.

This way fcfs still applies but people will still be able to get D1sks if they want. Just the price gets higher

Also this way the DAO doesn't loose value

[royal ginkgo]

I'd like to propose reducing the price even further. Like droping standard disks to ~$4 similar to pokemon booster packs. Please if someone is writing another idea about this. Include this as an option in the discussion points.

[cold depot]

This was included that there is an idea like this but then there was no discussion about it at all.

[swift storm]

I wrote up a report on this. I think it covers most of what was discussed.
So, rather than having to plow through the entire chat here, you could read through this to get a general sense of the conversation. And a background of the situation. Naturally, if you want to know the specifics of who-said-what, you will have to scroll through the channel.

If you read through it and notice that I misrepresent the community sentiment or an argument, please be upfront and tell me where and what, so that I can apply changes. I'll aim to write a similar piece for some of the most noteworthy threads. 👍
Also thanks @tidal shard for going over the piece for some additional QA 🙂

Individual message so it could be pinned:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YNL1LGSmqoP02AUyRCHQHTFRVTCHKb_Lf0U1ncvZ2HY/edit?usp=sharing

[leaden pendant]

I just want to add upon further reflection I believe fair compensation would be

• 1x Wave 2 Mega D1Sk
• 1x Wave 3 Mega D1SK
• 1x Wave 4 Mega D1SK
• 1x Wave 5 Mega D1SK

Ontop of the

• 1x Random Emote D1SK that every Alpha Minter is already receiving

• This still preserves the value of Alpha D1SKs and doesn’t overly flood the market with Alphas and reduce or fully negate our ability to offer future Alpha Sales are the newly agreed regular market price

• Still provides Wave #1 Alpha Minters with their Wave #1 Alpha D1SK + a comp package that will be approx $160 Retail value, still getting a fair package for the price they paid for which I believe will satisfy all parties

• Creates huge market retention for the rest of Set #1 as Day #1 all Alpha Minters who supported the projected will be there to Open D1SKs, check out the new set, all the new Illuvials, Milestone Rewards, any advertised merch upgrades (New D1SKPlates, Mugs, Illuvitars shirts etc)

• Still means the DAO can run Alpha Sales for each wave without that waves Alphas being diluted or over supplied, I think the correct Alpha Sale standard moving forward is probably 10-20k Alpha MEGAS & 10-20k Alpha Standards at the regular post Alpha retail price to kickstart the wave, I believe demand distribution for both is roughly equal and market data reflects this

[swift storm]

So you mean that, if you bought 100 Alpha D1sks, you would get 1 mega d1sk of the consecutive waves? Or would you get 100 of each?
And this would only apply to Mega Alpha D1sks right? Not the regular Alpha D1sks?

[leaden pendant]

No, I'm saying fair compensation should still be per D1Sk bought. But the D1SKs for following waves should be the regular equivalent and not Alpha for the next waves.

Standard Alpha D1SKs should still give Standard non-alpha D1SKs for the next waves bought as well. Everything fair compensation for the retail price adjustments.

[swift storm]

Alright, so in that case you would be minting 20.000 Mega D1sks every wave for the next 4 waves by default as well as 20.000 regular D1sks.
Would you say that minting a third of the entire last wave's sales as compensation would positiviely or negatively impact the sales of the next wave?

For the DAO, i'm thinking that spending more is better for the project is all. If the current group of collectors has enough Illuvitars after 120K D1sks. Would you expect them to mint more if they already got 40K as compensation? Or would they stop buying after 80K because they all finished a similar album as they had in the first wave?

Naturally, it's an ugly question, but I just wonder how this may impact the sales in the future waves.

[royal ginkgo]

This combined with Seatin's update to give out non-alpha disks can make it look like we're not giving that much to wave 1 alpha buyers. If you make 1 disk cost 1/3 of the wave 1 cost, then it's expectable to mint 3 times more if the same amount of USD is spent, so dilution will not be that big.

And the more people we engage/include with lower prices/higher quantities, the bigger the win for the DAO.

[leaden pendant]

I'm sorry Ned, I don't think this is a relevant point of discussion to include. The Market is happy with regular D1SK pricing as we saw a lot of satisfaction post mint.

Even if people weren't opening D1SKs, the regular pricing still brought many Illuvitars down to an incredibly low price many people were happy to pay on secondary.

[swift storm]

i don't think that price is the limiting factor for buying more or less Illuvitars. I personally finished almost all the collections and have no need for buying more. I think that's where people draw the line in whether they want to spend more.
If you reduce the pricing, it would allow more players to get into the game but it would not necessarily increase the sales amongst the previous group of people.
But maybe i just whaled too much on this wave lol

[cold depot]

There is also questions:

• How much money you need to spend to fill the whole collection?
• How many people will fill the whole collection?
• Are new players going to join if they can't fill the whole collections?

[royal ginkgo]

There are a lot of excluded people to due to currency variation around the world. As an argument I'd like to point out there are quite a few free mints, that bring a lot of value to their creators/community. This is because more people are included and scarcity plays its part. We should not be expecting disks/illuvitars to become rare 1-2 months after the sale and prices to skyrocket.

[leaden pendant]

Yes, I would advocate it would impact the overall revenue of the DAO positively. There are near infinite ways to monetize Illuvitars and the Illuvium brand beyond the initial sale over the next 5-10 years with several games coming out, merchandise, secondary royalities etc etc. The biggest thing we're fighting at the moment is customer burnout and a huge loss of trust with many of our biggest supporters. If significant changes are not made. Sales moving forward will look even worse than the Gamestop one is looking currently. If you don't have satisfied customers that want to talk about your product, they won't be coming back and your whole ecosystem goes to zero.

[royal ginkgo]

Your third point hits the mark really well. If you go to your local supermarket will you participate in collecting their whatever collection if it's not easily available and cheap. Down the line it will become rare.

[leaden pendant]

The entire Ecosystem of Illuvitars collectors and holders is built on the premise and faith that Illuvium stands a chance to be one of the biggest and most succesful brands in the Web3 Gaming Space moving forward. That's what your entire speculative premium rests upon. The decisions that Illuvium makes with every sale and release moving forward impact faith, confidence and trust in the team and DAO to do the right thing everytime. The more consumer positive changes that are made, the more this is raised and the more it can positively impact overall DAO revenue across the board.

[cold depot]

Because we don't have the mass adoption yet, our focus is whales and people that can spend more money because that's how the DAO earns money. But looking in the future, what do we want to become.

Collection game where you need to spend at least $2500 every 3 months to fill the collection.

Or something like Panini where you need to spend $500 to fill the whole collection of 600-800 stickers?

We will still be able to have better and worse collections, more rare Illuvitars then others, holos, maybe something else in the future, it goes on. It's not as simple as Panini world cup stickers.

But what is our target audience in the future? Kids that will have their first interactions with digital collectables and will have fun and will exchange Illuvitars in school. Or whales that will be able to spend money and fight on the leaderboard?

[hexed ocean]

You can target both of them. In normal gaming there are also whales active.

[cold depot]

I doubt kids will collect something that is this "expensive".

[swift storm]

But if you make it so that a third of the entire supply is "gifted" to those that bought something a while ago... Wouldn't you say that the interest of new players may drop considerably? What if the prices go up of the Illuvitars at a later date, due to inflation or because their use-case has increased. Would you then aim to mint extra d1sks of previous waves "because they were way too cheap"? 👀

You are OK with diluting future waves by 30% but want to save the value of the previous waves, saving your own skin. I mean I get it... And it makes me glad that I mainly have to summarise and then give this information to others without having to make the final decisions myself.

[royal ginkgo]

Are you aware that the top 4 holders of illuvium disks is a singe person?
Whales will spend let's say $100k and whether they get 2k disks or 20k disks it's the same for them.
What we're doing is allowing a smaller fish in the pond.

[leaden pendant]

The entire supply isn't gifted. It's not free. The DAO has taken a large amount of revenue for JPEGs from an audience who's first time it was interracting with the product and didn't understand the depth or parameteres of what Illuvitars really are and the reality of what a Standard vs an Alpha Illuvitar is. I think fairly compensating that audience shouldn't be treated or viewed as a handout.

[royal ginkgo]

I'm actually OK with whatever drops the cost of entry in future waves. If Wave 1 buyers sell disks at lower than mint cost, this might bring less revenue to the DAO short term, but if it hooks people to the beyond product, it's a win long term.

[leaden pendant]

It doesn't change anything for new players, they would still be getting in at exactly the same price that people who brought $200 D1SKS paid for per D1SK - $40, it's 100% fair. They are getting the value exactly equal to the retail price they paid for it.

[cold depot]

I'm personally all for lowering prices of D1SKs or trying to get more people involved somehow else.

[royal ginkgo]

FYI:#🎮〕illuvium-beyond message

This might be a single opinion and about the promo sale, but be sure that more people are feeling the same way. We're excluding current community members, not some "imaginable web2 people"

[leaden pendant]

This isn't about my own skin, this is about everybody's skin if the DAO doesn't find a better way to monetize and look after it's customers. Mistakes have been and continue to get made which leave a large portion of active particpants heavily disatisified and left holding Illiquid assets which instantly lose 90-98% of their value because the DAO wants to overprice retail sales.

[swift storm]

Alright, well i'm not totally on board yet. I am fine with rewards if it doesn't affect marketing. but I think that customers should hold themselves accountable if things have to change for the greater good. we are all ILV holders, we are all taking a plunge here, and probably will have to take the L at some points. I bought a number of Alpha d1sks and would love to get all those d1sks as compensation. but I am weary of the chance that future waves may be sold less because early adopters would get compensated for previous over-spending.
Yes, they in the end paid the same amount, but try explaining to new investors why a part of 40K d1sks are being dumped on the market at the start of each sale 😉

I'm just being cautious as it's a big compensation and i would feel bad if it backfired. 👍

[leaden pendant]

With any sufficiently growing/expanding userbase/playerbase we would quickly come to realize that even 180,000 D1SKs Minted on Wave 1 + Illuvitar Burning for Substance to increase Open World Capture Rates incinerating the unwanted would be negligible to properly cover to userbase that Illuvium could have, still took like 150,000 Illuvitars opened or something to get a real clean Holo Rham with a Rare Background. I personally think if we have a look at the data from 400% more D1SKs opened from Wave #1, it already shows that the majority of assets have found a fair secondary price relative to their drop rate.

[ripe drum]

I'm totally with you, it is very early in the game dev, everyone who has/is invested should know the risk.
And i guess in wave 2 and 3 at least, the sales will drop hard with seatins solution. Like everybody who is interested in beyond for the Moment, gets the value he is willing to invest for each wave for free in disks. Besides, most invested most likely more in the first wave than they would in the following waves, because it's the first. No reason for most of them to spend extra. Especially the so called whales, who statistically should be able to complete a Lot of the collections with the airdrop, if they already did in wave 1. And i doubt there will be a lot of newcomers to beyond before the game is live.
The other thing i don't like about that, is that you are rewarding the flippers of the disks, who already made their Profit.
I also read more than once, that there were people who ended with a profit while completing their collections.

[cold depot]

All of that is pretty much a speculation. Are there any numbers we can see and try to compare something? What were the expected numbers of sales for Wave 1? What do we expect for Wave 2?

Also, there are other ways to increase interest in buying D1SKs. There are Weekly/Monthly Goals (like Viper suggested). There is leaderboard that can be bigger if needed. I'm pretty sure Marketing Sub-Council can come up with more of them. There was also a talk about postponing the sale.

I don't think we won't sell any D1SKs if we mint 20K of each.

[royal ginkgo]

I think you missed a fine detail, that alpha disks are being compensated with regular ones.
And we have many ideas floating around about how to make next alpha wave more lucrative. So those air-drop disks will not count.

You can also exclude them from the goals. Or even drop them at the end of the wave sale period. So people who want to stay for 3 months on the leaderboard have to spend 🙉

[ripe drum]

no, i saw that.
what you mean with "they will not count"?

specifically speaking about seatins solution. And there is no mention of excluding them from anything at all... or i somehow missed it.

[royal ginkgo]

I mean that airdropped disks may not count to your personal goals. So if you don't buy you'll miss incentives like skins/boards/emotes and so on. It wasn't mentioned in his suggestion. I was expanding on it.

[ripe drum]

so they sell everything they get and buy anything they want, no?

or do you mean they are not tradable and you can't put them in a collection?

[royal ginkgo]

I was brainstorming on how we can get people who receive those airdrops to participate in the sale.

1. by giving incentives to buy disks regardless of the airdrop.
2. maybe delaying the airdrop, so that it's at the end of the sale. Which will most likely get them of the leaderboard if they wait for the airdrop.

[tidal shard]

It isn't really about the money, it is about being able to have confidence in the DAO to not devalue an investment. We were all big boys and girls. We spent the money and took our chances. The truth is, the DAO owes Alpha buyers nothing. However, the DAO needs to remember that if someone feels they were burnt in an investment, they will be less likely to invest in that project again. For many it only takes one bad experience for them to walk away.

Illuvium has a group of people who spent 500% more for quite a large number of D1sks during a bear market. That is the kind of trust that many projects never get and it has to be protected.

I suggest if you don't want to compensate (and there are valid points not to) you just scrap it. Let Alpha buyers have something special, the only Alphas. Or wait until Set 2 Wave 1 when there's a lot more people playing and hike the price to $200 again. Don't even bother with Exclusives. Drop what didn't work. Will it mean a hit due to not having the fun Alpha Marketing? Yes. However, that hit is nothing compared to alienating even a few Alpha D1sk buyers. I would also suggest that if Alpha D1sks are scrapped that for the first 24 hours only Mega D1sks are sold. If you can't wait to participate then you are buying Megas. Try to get the numbers up on them a little. Then open up the Standards and keep Megas going as well. It would also mean no Alpha missed prints sale. However, depending on how this missed prints sale goes, there is no reason we can't take one of each Illuvial from the wave, give it a different background than what was featured in the wave, and sell them in a Dutch auction afterwards. A guaranteed 1/1 for hard core collectors. This would work better than missed prints because how it currently sits, one of those prints may be in a D1sk that gets opened later.

[ripe drum]

thats allright, i like brainstorming.
i guess most will stay on the leaderboard, because the gap is pretty big between the top and the people who buy like 10 or 20 standard disks. And at the end of wave all of them get the disks and they still stay or are back again there.

[royal ginkgo]

Missing 12 weeks of rewards is something. If you wait to the end. But there might be better ideas of course.

[ripe drum]

i think you got me wrong. I wanted to say that Most will stay on the leaderboard, because the gap is too big. And the few who fell of ar back on it after wave 2 ends.

[royal ginkgo]

I like your arguments about the DAO protecting its supporters. People looking from the side should want to become part of this comunity. They should not look at examples how people lost on their investments and the DAO was looking how to monetize others over compensating current members.

[alpine dagger]

@sonic burrow is it possible to get this ;tldr pinned for anyone late to the game?

[wispy rapids]

Totally true. If you don't want any d1sks to airdrop to wave 1 alpha purchaser then we should leave the paramaters same for wave 2 and no one will complain. The main issue here is premium price paid by wave 1 alpha purchaser. Community realised that price was too high in wave 1 alpha and there is a need to change the price based on wave 1 feedback and for that reason we have to compensate wave 1 alpha purchasers with equivalent value and make sure they are not left behind as they are the first core premium investors who believed in project and bought those expensive d1sks. I believe changing pricing in wave 2 alpha sale and leaving wave 1 alpha purchasers behind is totalling unfair.

[thorny sage]

I'll add two new alternatives to this issue:

1. Starting from wave 2 no more aplhas will be minted, making wave 1 the only alphas and really rare collectible. Wave 2 can increase the amount of normal standard and mega disk sold with the same price.

2. Wave 2 onwards prices will be equal for alphas/normals, alphas will sell first...

Give the option to Apha Wave 1 to burn their nfts to make normal wave 1 disks :
1 Alpha Standard disk ---> 5 Normal Standard disk
1 Alpha T0+T1-5 for ---> 5 Normal Standard disk
1 Alpha Mega disk ---> 5 Normal Mega disk
1 Alpha Rare +T1-5 for ---> 5 Normal Mega disk

Also create a reroll/burn mechanic using a similar system for all waves including wave 1:
To keep my post short "burn double the content of a disk get new one",a 2 for 1 ratio, for a limited period of time for each set.

With this we can give alpha buyers the same value they paid for if they choose to burn, in other hands alpha keepers will gain value cause the supply will drop from burns.

Reroll mechanics will also decrease supply for all illuvitars, in general this will increase overall value, while also making a fun experience, we all know that the best part of random collectibles is the opennings.

[cold depot]

Point of leaderboards was so people are more interested in collecting, buying more and bonding (right?).

Right now (or in two days) there won't be anything to buy (apart from on the secondary), but we're still giving away prizes every week. Are there any numbers on how much money we'll be losing every week until there is a Wave 2 of Illuvitars? Or are we still think that giving away prizes is profitable?

[glossy parrot]

If we wait 2 months the Beyond Rewards will equal around $36,000 that is nothing compared to the millions we made from Wave 1 sale. This is the whole point of the treasury, to reward top "players".

[paper bay]

Marketplace sales also send a cut to the DAO. It’s easy to differentiate the 2 revenue streams while the illuvitars are being minted. But other people definitely can do it.

[tacit widget]

I apologize in advance to the extent there is some repetition, just found out about this thread.

I know we're a DAO but sometimes we should ask ourselves "what would a serious/credible/reputable business do?". Simultaneously decreasing the price of alpha disks AND reducing their supply for wave 2 (cheaper and scarcer) doesn't make any business sense when you consider the sale parameters of Wave 1.
I understand that something has to be done about alphas but by now, we should steer clear from giving the community the feeling that the sole focus is selling out (regardless of impact on wave 1 buyers).

Imo, 2 options can address the underperformance of Alpha disks without harming ppl who bought in wave 1:

1. No more alpha disks for future waves

2. Wave 2 alphas are branded differently, their price can be the same as normal ones but their number should by no means be lower than Wave 1 alphas. The proposed 30k aggregate supply for wave 2 alphas seems low and unwarranted when wave 1 sold close to 200k disks overall

In the case of option 2, the team can think of ways to add value to people who own wave 1 alpha disks and/or illuvitars but I totally disagree with ideas mentioned previously that this can be based on minted alpha disks. To use a random example, it just doesn't make any sense for someone who minted 100's of alpha disks and resold all of them for silv2 arbitrage to benefit from any rewards. Till now the market on disks and illuvitars has ran its course and any compensation (if any), should be simply based on who owns alpha disks and illuvitars at [undisclosed snapshot date]

Also, as some suggested, a poll of target market would be most helpful to better understand sentiment (obviously with caveat that results do no commit the team to any course of action)

Full transparency: I minted 7 mega alphas and own 8 currently + bought some alpha illuvitars off secondary

[sudden kraken]

As someone who minted 51 alpha megas and 50 alpha standards, id feel punished ,if the price for wave 1 set 2 alphas mints were 5 times as cheap as what i had to pay for my alphas.

[wispy rapids]

💯

[wispy rapids]

It looks like there is nothing planned yet for alpha wave 1 purchasers but it has details about lowering set 1 wave 2 alpha prices in june 20th meeting notes under governance news channel. @vestal oracle , would you please share if anything planned regarding compensation for wave 1 alpha purchasers? Atleast, make it clear here so everyone is aware of up-to-date information about our lengthy discussion on this topic... thanks in advance

[cold depot]

It's been 10 days since this topic was "taken to council" and since then we know nothing new.

[wispy rapids]

Absolutely

[proven arch]

Saw this and just wanted to share an update quick (not sure how much I can say)

More news to follow from Marketing Sub-Council in the coming days @cold depot @wispy rapids

It is a priority item right now 👀

[wispy rapids]

Good to hear that its priority item... looking forward to hearing back from the team.

[rocky kelp]

Just to update everyone. We (Marketing SC) finalized a revised draft tonight and it’s going through final internal feedback, will be posted for community feedback soon. As mentioned above, it has been and continues to be a high priority.

[rocky kelp]

Can confirm we are aware and it’s being discussed.