Controls Visible in-game

[limber sapphire]

I get that theres no point making controls editable in-game pre-launch and I agree with that.

However I think its a genuine issue that we cannot see what the actual controls are right now in-game.

This can be easily added as just images in the menu, think this is a no-brainer to be added in next update.
(see images for how it could look)

(I do not believe this requires an IIP, I believe if it gets 30 thumbs up it should just be implemented unless someone on the team gives a good reason as to why not, and I don't foresee that tbh)

<@&1107754494466469919> sure u guys have some thoughts on this

[modern vigil]

easy agree

[limber sapphire]

[wispy abyss]

I think this is a good QOL.

I imagine its planned with key bind changes

I'll be back

[limber sapphire]

imo key bind changes are not necessary in a Beta (and not generally added during Beta) @ebon spindle has also said its not a priority and I agree with him there

This proposal is for just the controls to be added in game, without being able to change bindings but just to be able to see what are the controls (and not have to go into the discord and request an infographic which not everyone will think to do)

Appreciate u for checking with internal ser

[opal glade]

I just want to be able to change the key mappings for some of the moves. For me they are not fluid.

[next venture]

I have seen a decent bit of confusion regarding the controls from new players so I think this should be a no brainer. As long as it doesn't hurt dev time too long which I dont see why it would?

[opal glade]

Also, I would think they would want to test to make sure players changing key-bindings will not cause other issues.

[limber sapphire]

that probably wont be available until game launch, I would also like that though cos right now I cant play this game with controller because the mapped controls on controller suck and id love to change them

[opal glade]

I can see why they might not make this change during beta, but if they don't test it before go-live it might cause issues plus like you said players want to test out controller setups as well.

[limber sapphire]

I dont disagree, but for editable controls far as im concerned thats up to the devs to decide on whether or not to prioritise it

[opal glade]

👍

[cobalt sundial]

Could a basic description be added to the controls suggesting to use Q and heat map to start tracking down resources.

This knowledge is essential to avoid wasting time in Overworld

[limber sapphire]

This is a GREAT Idea
I spent 45mins gathering 3 rocks first run not realising the importance of heat map, including a prompt like that with the controls is a great idea

(once i realised about heat map I completed a run in 22mins with all energy used first try)

[ebon spindle]

Look, it’s just one of those things. Doing this is not hard. But we still have the team building features. There’s two more movement mechanics, plus about 8 other major things to add. If people feel strongly enough about it we will do it but hopefully people can understand we are trying to stick to our priorities and QOL features aren’t as important to us as getting in all the features.

Might as well do editable keybindings at the same time. I’ll discuss with the team.

[limber sapphire]

Thank You Ser

[ebon spindle]

“How long can it take” when multiplied by 20 different QOL fixes adds up.

[cobalt sundial]

Would an email going out with this info in be an a simpler solution.

[limber sapphire]

that and actually showing the updated controls on the download page
if thats a simpler fix

[limber sapphire]

This does seem like a no-brainer QOL that I'm surprised isn't already there since we've been beta testing for a year 🤷‍♀️

Also Beta does seem to be part of our marketing efforts and this is one QOL improvement that by itself will make Streamers testing it for the first time not react with "this is boring" "this is empty" or any other perceptions they may get by not being fully aware of the controls and why certain things are useful or super important

I can appreciate that there are a lot of QOL improvements that are asked for and that some take longer than others or are rightly not a priority

adding 2 images to the Menu seems like the lowest cost QOL improvement anyone has ever asked for (considering those images are created anew for each new update anywho)

[ebon spindle]

I thought we already had done that? If not then sure.

[ebon spindle]

As long as this is the QOL the community wants, we can do it.

But remember there’s plenty of UI additions and other things we want to add but that sit behind other things.

If this has enough support we will do it. Keep in mind we’re pretty close to having patching so I’d probably wait for that before getting people to do a 17gb file just for controls.

As I said we will probably do key rebinding at the same time.

[limber sapphire]

as the proposal says, with the next update, by no means should the next update be just this, whatever u guys have planned for next update plus this kinda thing

im not crazy🤣

if keybinding is coming next update then I withdraw my idea as its already getting solved next update (in a better way)

[ebon spindle]

All I can say is nobody on the Overworld team has had more than 1 week off in a year, and unless I’m mistaken they all work every weekend. So it isn’t like we are sucking our thumbs.

There’s the levelling system that is being worked on, two movement mechanics, fighting…

When you know what they are building it’s easier to see why not this or any of the dozens of other things we get asked for.

And even something like levelling is more complex in our universe because of NFTs. Rangers gain levels separate to Illuvials which gain as one stat vs rangers that have a single stat per game. Etc.

But yes. Get me the upvotes and I’ll prioritise controls. 🙂

[limber sapphire]

I'm not implying laziness, we know u guys are working hard for the bigger picture, but theres also a community and theres also marketing of this game as we approach launch and QOL things assist both of those

imo just a balance that needs to be struck, completely de-prioritising all QOL makes feedback from beta testing less useful and the public image of the project worse, both things we dont want

[pulsar hinge]

Agreed that in-game JPEG list is easiest solution for now. I originally made the list because no one else had. That meant fumbling around the keyboard, typing various keys to figure it out.

At minimum including it in the update download screen is a decent solution.

Aaron is right though, we did send it out via email and article on the Private Beta 2 release.

[next venture]

The problem is that not everyone follows the game as closely as we do. Most gamers don't check their email that often and likely have multiple emails. Information such as game controls have to be right in front of the players face or they will get frustrated and give up imo. I'm not a game dev but these are just some of the problems I've seen.

[limber sapphire]

Don't know about others but I find out about the new release on Discord Announcement and then manually found the download page when the time announced came, when i saw the email I just put it as "read" as i assumed it was a link to something I already had

when u play a game checking back on your email for controls seems kinda jank, it is a beta yes, but as you say a JPEG list in the menu is an easy solution and if keybindings are not added in the following update then at minimum a JPEG list of controls seems a minimum

[limber sapphire]

@ebon spindle if it helps save dev time happy to make the text PNG,

just tell me the info just before next update, font, colour of text u want and the amount of pixels available, happy to make it and apply any edits you ask for to make it up to standards if needed

here to help x

[pulsar hinge]

Florian should have the original file we made and could remove the background in about 30s.

[limber sapphire]

EZ

[ebon spindle]

We already have this. Don’t worry. I’ll discuss with the team adding it to the next update.

[limber sapphire]

[proper wagon]

Sounded reasonable until I read Aaron's response. It's true that anything that we ask them to do takes them away from them having time to do something else. This, while a great idea, just doesn't seem the most important thing right now. People can just push buttons until they figure it out or get the info from another source if they really get stuck.🙂

[limber sapphire]

Maybe I missed something, Aarons response here: https://discordapp.com/channels/760344898200666112/1109184272679567462/1109226740276002886
suggests to me that the work to make this change is already done, the only work remaining is to paste that PNG with no background into 2 new menu slots, 5mins of work...

The team works hard and for sure some things aren't worth prioritising, but "People can just push buttons until they figure it out" is wholly unacceptable when they might be pushing those buttons whilst streaming to hundreds or thousands of potential future customers (especially unacceptable when its a 5min addition)

Clearly the team works hard, thats why the game is so awesome, but when u work hard sometimes little details like this get missed, it happens, and we've pointed it out and next update it will be fixed👍

[cobalt sundial]

I'd agree if I didn't watch a well known content creator streaming it to all his followers not knowing how to play. Made the OW look like a walking simulator 😅

In his defence he looked for the controls in the settings.

[next venture]

While I usually side with the team on 90% of their opinions this one is an important oversight that could greatly hurt player retention during the beta. To be fair 99%+ of the player base will come when open beta launches but we want to be able to have a solid foundation now for when that time comes. We have a good foundation now but it definitely would not hurt to keep building that up 😉

[final spindle]

I think the work to get a custom updating one in is absolutely not worth it in the short term. (100% will be longer term) but a static image just in that UI is a nice quick and dirty fix

That's absolutely worth doing

[ebon spindle]

It’s not 5mins. Let’s be clear about that.

[limber sapphire]

100% ser, defo worth doing

[cold burrow]

Legit just played it tonight with my kids and had no idea how to glide and mashed the keyboard until we found it lol

[proper wagon]

@limber sapphire @cobalt sundial
@next venture

Answering you guys all at once. I was going to say to Vetemor that I really hoped that a streamer would take the time to figure out the controls before streaming but then read GHamster and , well, apparently they don't. 😂

I think it's interesting Jimberino that you think it would hurt player retention. I really never looked at it like it's a big deal. I guess I am in the minority here. 🤷‍♀️

[limber sapphire]

Bigger the streamer, the less time they would take to research something as basic as controls (they rightly assume controls are visible in the settings of a game, as they should be)

Generally player retention is a big deal and in gaming any added friction is a huge no no because there are soo many fun games out there with less friction they can play instead, whether ur a beta tester or a streamer or a stream viewer...

Retention is KING

[proper wagon]

I know retention is important, just didn't think it was hard to push some buttons to figure out what to do. If I were confused for a few seconds I wouldn't just quit the game and never return.

I did give this a thumbs up after the discussion here as if streamers are showing the game in a poor light that is bad and Ben seems to have a solution that is a quick fix.

[hazy solstice]

I agree with this when you play on controller. but on Keyboard and considering people around the globe have different keyboards...

I won't press my 57 buttons to figure out how to glide see what i mean? xD

[limber sapphire]

For me and for you, a few extra button clicks is not an issue, were committed to playing this game and we'll die trying, we've drunk the cool aid, theres no saving us 🤣

Much more for anyone coming in not a diehard fan already, we want to retain them and any additional friction is more people trying and giving up and never returning...

[worthy osprey]

how do i glide in the air n ground?

[worthy osprey]

Nice thx man

[proper wagon]

I see your point. I figured the information is out there if someone wanted to find it instead of randomly trying things out. It's funny, in the day of the internet when everything is able to be found people have become too impatient to find it.

Anyhow, just didn't want to see the team pulled from somewhere else if this would take them a lot of time, but looks like Ben can do something and have it not take long so it is a win/win.🙂

[proper wagon]

I may resemble a kool-aid drinker just a little.

[limber sapphire]

[slow jetty]

I agrée that would be useful. Still no idea how to glide and slide and always looking for those hidden commands.

Can be added as low priority to the todo list for when someone have a couple hours free, if ever the CCs have any 🥲

Long term this info page can shift to capability and allow changing keys.

But yeah would be useful for anyone new.

[granite vector]

so making the game PLAYABLE for anyone who doesn't have a qwerty keyboard isn't a priority ?

[limber sapphire]

No it isn’t during beta

Have yet to see a closed beta where its an available option, I’ve seen open betas where keybindings still havent been added even

On our Open Beta Launch, I agree, It would be important to have keybinding available by then and am certain they will be implemented!

[granite vector]

so it seems to be a good move to render the game unplayable for anyone not having the same keyboard as the developper ? given that french is one of the biggest community and have azerty, you don't think it's offputting to them ?

i mean i'm not a dev so i have no idea how difficult this is, but i would guess it wouldn't take weeks with the whole team dedicated. How is fixing anything more important than making the game just playable ? I can live with a pixelated environment or a slightly buged animation, i certainly can't without being able to move in game

[amber spade]

You could always change your keyboard. It's not unplayable

[granite vector]

ROFL true. So for the « future of gaming » I must buy a foreign keyboard to test it 😂

[wispy abyss]

Are non QWERTY keyboards common?

[granite vector]

In France for example, nobody use them

[wispy abyss]

AZERTY doesnt have a control button?

[granite vector]

Can’t say for other countries, but I’m guessing we aren’t the only ones

[wispy abyss]

I really don't know as the only keyboards I've ever seen are qwerty

[amber spade]

France and Belgium are the only 2 countries that use it

[granite vector]

We do, the problem is rather we can’t move because of how the keys are put together, your typical moving keys are messed up

[wispy abyss]

this is demographics of the discord

[granite vector]

Hm, so less than 5%

What I don’t understand is how difficult can it be ? It’s veen 7 months

[wispy abyss]

Key bindings fixes this, but as said above, just not on the highest priority of things that are

[granite vector]

I get it wasn’t a priority but 7 months, in this state we just can’t test the game 🤷🏻‍♂️

[wispy abyss]

I think its just a hard sell to take time away from other things for a small % of users affected. Considering a lot of French people are playing, maybe good to ask in the #1025477288042700863 group what others are doing to circumvent this

@plush shuttle

I know this guild plays a alot

[granite vector]

It’s just the kind of things that make you drop, each month I come back to test it again and each time it hasn’t changed so I leave, it’s quite tiring

[granite vector]

Do they play overworld or arena ?

[wispy abyss]

@stark compass ?

Pretty sure both

but they can confirm

[granite vector]

Buying a foreign keyboard seems to be a valid option, it just feels odd to have to after months asking for a this « feature »

I’ll ask them then, thanks anyways @wispy abyss

[final spindle]

key bindings are done

will be in the next update.

[wispy abyss]

Look at that

this guy amazing

[ebon spindle]

We aren’t a live “out of beta” game yet. Saying “how long does this feature take” isn’t always helpful. There are hundreds of features being added all the time. Individually it’s easy but then something else gets delayed. For open beta things will be quite nice. And then qol updates will come faster.

[granite vector]

i get that aaron, and I wasn't too surprised when i first launched the game in december, but how are we supposed to test the game and give feedbacks if we don't get the basic features to be able to play it. i keep seeing stuff in leaks showing that you're doing graphics enhancements (which is good) and i can't see how this trump being able to play by being able to set up the keys for up down left right

i mean it's been 8 months. Would be nice to finally be able to walks in the overworld without having to use 2 hands on keyboard

[amber spade]

You can literally just buy a keyboard

[granite vector]

as odd as it may seem, i didn't get a whole set up for the sole purpose of playing Illuvium, i happen to also use it for work and i'd love to not have to plug/unplug my regular keyboard to have to play. Plus it sucks to have to buy another good keyboard just to get qwerty, or get a cheap one and have poor user experience

I understand that the team is busy but it feels like 8 months was enough to introduce key bindings, at least for up down left right, i fail to see how everything was more important than this for this long

[ebon spindle]

I'm not saying that you should have to wait a long time, just explaining why it isn't as simple as saying "how long can one feature take?". Unfotunately we have a priority list and this was lower on it because we had a lot of work to decide how keybindings would feature.

Also, graphic improvements are done by entirely separate teams. But it will be there soon. I'm not trying to justify the delay. Just explaining particular parts of your question.

[granite vector]

Any chance to have a rough idea of when ? just to know if i'll be able to test the game before it goes public.

[ebon spindle]

PB3. Which is September. Public isn't expected until the end of the year so you'll get it before then.

[granite vector]

Great, thanks 🙂

[ebon spindle]

No problems. We try our best to cover everyone but sometimes there is a big gap in expectation of what a private beta is. I get the feeling many in our community don't have much experience playing games a long time before they are done and they tend to be SUPER rough until they just fall together and start to work well. Then after that there's a long slow process of adding quality of life features.

All I can say is if everyone was super happy with the private beta, it wouldn't be private. It would be a full release.

But I apologise for that difference. We really do try to make things as good as we can.

[granite vector]

tbh i don't mind having a bugy glitchy or unbalanced game during beta, i just want to be able to move so i can test it and then report bugs feedback etc

was having a hard time understanding how allowing every tester to be able to just properly move had such low priority, but nvm 🙂

[coral nest]

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